Best NBA Trades of 2025 | Morning Shoot Around

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – "Best NBA Trades of 2025 | Morning Shoot Around"

Date: January 1, 2026
Hosts: Andrew Schlecht, Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni (Baron)

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Episode Overview

This special New Year’s episode of The Athletic NBA Daily features a lively roundtable discussion of the top 10 most impactful and fascinating NBA trades of 2025. The hosts break down deal-by-deal not only the short-term on-court impact, but also implications for team futures, fan sentiment, league narratives, and front office decision-making. With plenty of debate, notable insight and a few surprise picks, the crew gives NBA die-hards a clear-eyed look at how the league’s biggest moves shifted the power structure for 2026 and beyond.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

• Evaluating trades for both immediate and future impact
• Organizational philosophy: win-now vs. asset accumulation vs. tanking
• How player fit, locker room dynamics, and leadership matter beyond stats
• Draft pick swaps, lottery odds, and rebuilding timelines
• Which teams "won" or "lost" major deals
• The risks and rewards of consolidating or pivoting franchise directions

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Segment Breakdown & Major Trades

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Honorable Mention: Nikhil Alexander-Walker S&T to Atlanta

[03:04 – 10:40]

• Trade: Nikhil Alexander-Walker (NAW) to Atlanta in a sign-and-trade from Minnesota.
• Impact on Minnesota: The Wolves are feeling the loss; bench point guard depth collapsed after betting on Rob Dillingham, who “just hasn’t panned out.” (Dave, 04:20)
• Quotes:
  • “The trickle down effect from losing Nikhil for them is actually way bigger than just starting point guard. It’s their whole bench point guard depth fell apart.” – Dave (04:20)
  • “Maybe you trade one of those guys [Reed or Randle]... But Nas Reid, fan favorite... Julius Randle having an All Star season. How do you, how do you trade him but also get back what you’re missing?” – Zena (06:35)
• The group wonders if Minnesota will rebalance their roster, possibly targeting a guard like Kobe White, while considering the aging core and development of young big John Barringer.

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#10: Quentin Grimes to Philadelphia

[10:40 – 13:40]

• Trade: Grimes from Dallas (plus a 2025 2nd-rounder), for Caleb Martin (plus a 2030 2nd); move hasn't paid off for either Dallas or Philly yet.
• “For Dallas... a whole lot of nothing for a potentially rotation player.” – Andrew Schlecht (11:42)
• Interesting note: Grimes had a brief scoring explosion in Philly. “I don't think I knew that Quentin Grimes was capable of 40 point games until he got to Philly.” – Baron (12:31)

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#9: The Jimmy Butler Five-Team Blockbuster

[13:44 – 21:47]

• Key Trade Pieces: Jimmy Butler to Golden State; Andrew Wiggins & Davion Mitchell to Miami
• Butler in GS: “He joins the team, they go 23 and 8 to close the rest of the season. He elevates them into the playoffs, gives Stephen Curry the much needed break...” – Baron (14:25)
• Butler in Warrior Culture: “Even the whole Draymond-Kerr thing, like, [Butler] came out and said he gets turned on by the competition factor. ...$50 million will buy you in very nicely." – Baron (16:08)
• Wiggins/Mitchell in Miami: Wiggins' defense and athleticism plus "Davion Mitchell saved his career." – Group consensus (14:09–14:14)
• Debate: Is Butler raising the Warriors' ceiling, or did they lose too much? Is roster fit with Curry and Draymond still awkward?
  • “What you’re missing in Andrew Wiggins, you’re starting to see Danthy Melton and Will Richard kind of combine to give you that." – Baron (19:47)
  • “More than anything, this team needs a big man. They just need a very large person and it'll cover up a lot.” – Baron (20:14)

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#8: Brandon Ingram to Toronto

[21:58 – 27:51]

• Trade: Brandon Ingram to Raptors for Bruce Brown, Kelly Olynyk, ‘26 1st, ‘31 2nd
• Toronto gets value for little cost, fits “their way of doing business.”
• “He surprisingly is near the top of the league in minutes played, which is not something we’ve been able to say for Brandon Ingram.” – Zena (22:46)
• Concerns: Raptors’ lack of depth, injury risk, unbalanced roster, potential for further trades.
  • “They basically have leaned into Project 6-9 again… they have seven shooting guards…” – Zena (26:33)

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#7: Michael Porter Jr. to Brooklyn Nets

[28:01 – 35:39]

• Trade: MPJ (plus 2032 1st) to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson
• Why Did Denver Move On? Health, fit, and chance to add depth via making room for Tim Hardaway Jr. and Jonas Valanciunas (Zena, 32:02).
• MPJ thriving in Brooklyn under coach Jordy Fernandez: “...the confidence with which [he] came in, and then you just saw, like, the meekness that Cam Johnson came and started the season with with Denver.” – Baron (31:02)
• The group riffs on a hypothetical MPJ-to-Magic/Palo Banchero trade, ultimately finds the politics of moving a #1 pick unworkable (35:00 approx).
• “If we could just take away the fact that Paulo was the number one pick... would Michael Porter Jr. make this Orlando Magic team a little bit better? It's possible.” – Andrew (35:24)

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#6: Norman Powell to Miami, John Collins to L.A. Clippers

[41:14 – 45:55]

• Trade: Norman Powell to Miami, John Collins to Clippers in a 3-team deal
• Kawhi’s huge scoring load since: “Kawhi has basically had to average 35 points over the last month... to make up for what they miss from the scoring of Norm Powell and James Harden.” – Zena (41:35)
• “Norm Powell is an All Star... He might make it this year.” – Dave (42:42, 42:46)
• The Clippers’ calculation was future cap space, but the loss of Powell is sorely felt. Miami scores a “plug-and-play” bucket-getter.
• “That’s why I’m like, you can’t really compare what Jimmy does for Warriors. But Norm Powell...” – Baron (44:47)

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#5: Cedric Coward to Memphis Grizzlies

[45:55 – 51:37]

• Trade: Orlando’s 2028 1st, two 2nds, and Hanson Young for Cedric Coward
• Coward is already a centerpiece: “He plays like he’s been in the league for a long time already.” – Andrew (46:14)
• “Cedric Coward very clearly has like all star, all NBA potential, and he’s the final puzzle piece. It’s just, can Ja hold up his end of the bargain?” – Zena (48:29)
• “Memphis is known for grit and resilience—and that’s Coward’s story, too.” – Baron (49:07)

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#4: Indiana Pacers Get Their 2026 1st-Round Pick Back from the Pelicans

[52:07 – 55:52]

• Trade: Pacers recover their own 2026 first from Pelicans just before Halliburton’s injury
• “If they end up with one of the top three picks… then this team is back.” – Andrew (53:53)
• Serendipitous timing; “This is the basketball gods rewarding ethical hoops.” – Dave (54:00)
• Could set up a ‘Tim Duncan/Kawhi Leonard’ style reboot in Indy: “They can Tim Duncan this thing.” – Zena (55:03)

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#3: Kevin Durant to Houston Rockets

[55:52 – 58:46]

• Trade: KD to Houston for Jalen Green, Dillon Brooks, and the #10 pick (transferred to Suns)
• Immediate ceiling boost for Rockets; chance to reshape post-LeBron Lakers in the West.
• “This is a huge one. I mean it allowed the Suns to clean house... and it gives them a chance to start out fresh.” – Dave (58:17)
• Also a “win-win” for Phoenix, who shed salary, picked up defensive toughness (Brooks), and a blue-chip rookie.

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#2: De’Aaron Fox to San Antonio Spurs (Three-team deal)

[58:46 – 66:04]

• Major Moves: Fox to Spurs, Zach LaVine to Kings, assorted role players and picks moved
• Opened Spurs’ title window with Wemby: “That trade opened Wemby’s title window.” – Dave (60:48)
• Bulls “sneak in” to offload LaVine’s contract to Kings.
• “The vaunted position, right, because Trey Young wanted to get himself to San Antonio... and Fox kind of won out that race.” – Zena (65:13)
• “Now you have a guy who is going to perform in the clutch time and not just wimby.” – Dave (64:10)

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#1: Luka Dončić Blockbuster: Dallas Mavericks to Los Angeles Lakers

[70:52 – 75:46]

• Trade: Luka to the Lakers at deadline; Dallas “saved” only by luck (winning draft lottery/post-trade).
• “Luka got traded this year. In the middle of the night, Luka Doncic got traded, and it completely ripped apart the Dallas Mavericks." – Andrew (70:52)
• Era-defining ripple effect; Dallas loses franchise cornerstone due to front office misfires and locker-room decay.
• “It is the most...has the potential to be the worst trade in sports history.” – Dave (73:22)
• “If Luka wins a couple championships, a couple MVPs and Dallas does nothing, we're going to think about this as the Luka Doncic curse on that franchise.” – Dave (73:03)
• The trade is so monumental that a local funeral was held for the Mavs’ championship hopes (Zena, 72:37).

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Additional Noteworthy Trades

• Pacers-Pelicans-Hawks Pick Swap: Hawks receive Pelicans’ unprotected pick; Pelicans gamble and could lose out on a top-3 prospect.
  “They overestimated clearly how good they'd be this year.” – Zena (69:43)
• Cedric Coward to Grizzlies – A surprise rookie now central to their future.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Jimmy Butler is doing the whole, like...shut up and dribble thing, but he’s playing and he’s happy and he likes the competition.” – Baron (16:08)
• “Anthony Edwards is ready to win now. So, how do you get the pieces together? How do you get the young guys to catch up to what he has? I think that’s the question for them.” – Zena (09:39)
• "This is the basketball gods rewarding ethical hoops.” – Dave (54:00)
• “Luka got traded this year. In the middle of the night...it completely ripped apart the Dallas Mavericks." – Andrew (70:52)
• “If Luka wins a couple championships...we’re going to think about this as the Luka Doncic curse on that franchise.” – Dave (73:03)
• “The initial run where Luka just came out and they were gangbusters...it was enough to get [the GM] fired.” – Dave (74:02)

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General Observations and Tone

• The show was conversational, quick-witted, and occasionally irreverent.
• Lots of knowledgeable, in-depth hoops talk, peppered with playful banter and a healthy dose of hindsight.
• The panel doesn’t shy away from disagreements, especially when assessing player value or hypothesizing alternate timelines.
• Frequent references to fan reactions, organizational pressures, and the ever-present balance between asset flexibility and win-now urgency.

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Time-Stamped Highlights

• 04:20 – Wolves’ bench collapses without NAW; the ripple effects of one “minor” trade
• 14:09 – “Davion Mitchell...he’s such a Heat player. Oh my gosh.”
• 19:47 – “What you’re missing in Andrew Wiggins, you’re starting to see Danthy Melton and Will Richard kind of combine...”
• 22:46 – “He [Ingram] surprisingly is near the top of the league in minutes played...”
• 29:30 – 30:05 – The MPJ discourse: great shooter, “sounds like he’s never read a book in his life”
• 41:35 – Clippers’ struggles after trading away Norman Powell
• 54:00 – “This is the basketball gods rewarding ethical hoops.”
• 60:48 – "The de'Aaron Fox trade opened Wemby's title window."
• 70:52 – “Luka got traded...and it completely ripped apart the Dallas Mavericks.”
• 73:22 – “It has the potential to be the worst trade in sports history.”

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Concluding Thoughts

• The episode offers both a snapshot of the NBA’s rapidly changing landscape and a nuanced perspective on the ripple effects of major trades.
• The Luka deal will reverberate for years, but several other “smaller” trades may prove decisive for the league’s next era.
• Several rebuilding teams (Raptors, Pacers, Spurs, Grizzlies) made stealth moves that may swing future playoff races.
• Panel consensus: 2025’s trades set up the NBA for a fascinating, wide-open future.

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For listeners new and old, this episode delivers smart, passionate basketball talk with plenty of memorable insight – a must-listen for anyone curious about how NBA teams shape their destinies behind the trade desk.

Transcript

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[Dave]

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[Andrew Schlecht]

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[Dave]

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[Zena]

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[Dave]

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[Baron]

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[Zena]

Australia is already in 2026.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's true. Time travelers over there. Australia.

[Zena]

That's right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sam Bassini. Happy New Year. Okay, so we are going to talk about these trades there. There's, there's a lot of trades to go through and some that I think are more impactful than others. Some of these I kind of lean toward the future because there's trades that are good trades for teams. However, are they impacting the future of the NBA? Not all that much. And did they make some teams that were already mediocre? A little bit better than mediocre this year? Yes. So those don't get as much of a bump. Okay.

[Zena]

Okay.

[Dave]

We're starting with Jimmy Butler.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We can debate any of these. It's Jimmy Butler. First thing I thought of was is we'll. We'll talk about it soon. Okay, we'll talk about it very soon. Honorable mention. Nikhil Alexander Walker was technically traded to Atlanta from the Minnesota Timberwolves in a signing deal. I have that as like an honorable mention. I do. And it's more. So he's been great for Atlanta. That's awesome. Is not going to impact this season and likely not going to impact the NBA on any level. However, it is pretty impactful to the Minnesota Timberwolves to not have him on their roster this year. And so that is my. That's my honorable mention. Before we get into the actual list, any thoughts on. On Nikhil, who's. Who's been really good, who hit one of the craziest shots I've ever seen. He was forced. Forced to his left to shoot a half court shot with Alex Caruso in his grill. Shea cutting off his right hand. And he swishes.

[Zena]

It don't matter.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That was crazy. Anyways.

[Dave]

He's.

[Zena]

He's ambidextrous, by the way.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes, he is ambidextrous, but that's a crazy level of ambidextrous.

[Baron]

That is.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Thoughts on Nikhil not being on the Timberwolves, which is kind of like the reason that he's on this list at all.

[Dave]

It was, it was kind of a bet on Rob Dillingham in a lot of ways, and it just hasn't panned out. Obviously that team got expensive. They. When they went in for Rudy and you know, they've got Julius Randle. I mean, they, they had to pay Nas Reed. They were going to have to let someone go. And Nil being like the last guy to get paid made him the, the first guy out. I mean, it was more of a circumstantial thing, but they definitely miss him. Dillingham not turning into a guy they can trust. Terence Shannon Jr. You know, like, he, he shows flashes, but he can't be a point guard for you. Like, they really need someone who can start next to Anthony Edwards in place of Mike Conley and they just don't have that guy on the roster. So, yeah, it is. The trickle down effect from losing. Nikhil for them is actually Way bigger than just starting point guard. It's their whole bench point guard depth fell apart.

[Zena]

I wonder if that forces them to do some roster rebalancing because they have a lot of like big slash forwards between McDaniels, Naz Reed, Randall. Obviously Gobert is getting older too, so they have to eventually address the center stuff. This is, this is a team that's like, I guess window with this current core is sort of dwindling because of the age around Conley and Gobert. And you wonder, hey, are they gonna be able to make a move? I mean, I know we've seen reports of them trying to be aggressive for like a Kobe White. Maybe they get into conversations for other guards. But yeah, this Nikhil thing kind of opened the window for that, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. And what stinks for them is like, yeah, you trade for Kobe White, who would be an upgrade over anybody that they have one. Who are you giving up? What are you giving up to actually make that happen?

[Zena]

And you have to pay him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You have to pay him. And then also he's not a two way player. Kobe White's right is that's not the guy that you necessarily want next to Ant because he does like some of the same things that Ant does. He takes a lot of three.

[Dave]

Also doesn't. It doesn't solve their biggest problem, which is that Julius Randall and Nas Reed cannot play together. You can't have them out there as your only two bigs. That is actually their bigger problem than having a playmaking guard right now.

[Zena]

It's like, hey, maybe, maybe you trade one of those guys. But the thing is, Nas Reed fan favorite. There's literally tattoos of Nas Reed in Minnesota as we speak. The other one, Julius Randall having like a All Star season. How do you, how do you trade him but also get back what you're missing?

[Dave]

I don't know if the fan sentiment is going to play in this or not.

[Zena]

It matters a little bit.

[Dave]

Like, you know, you can't move Jaden, you can't move Rudy Gobert. I mean, number one, I, I think, you know, you probably lose out on a Rudy Gobert deal anyway because he, he gives you more value than you could possibly get for him. Yeah, there is no real upgrade. It's more of a, you know, can they turn Nas Reed and something or Julius Randle in something? I would lean toward Nas Reed. Like you said, Julius Randall's been awesome this year and he helps mitigate the lack of a playmaking point guard next to Ant because he's such a good playmaker. So I, I think Nas Reed is the odd man out and you find out what you can get. Maybe this is a we reshuffle. We can get a little bit of depth because Nas Reed is going to be good for some team. It's just not this one.

[Baron]

I feel like you guys. I mean, I think, Dave, you were the one that said that they were banking on the Rob Dillingham move with the Neil Alexander Walker dismissal, but I actually think that they were more banking on Nas Reed just becoming more dynamic.

[Zena]

Right.

[Baron]

We saw him be able to come off the bench and be able. Yes, he's technically listed as a center for the Minnesota Timberwolves, but we knew he stretched the floor really well. He played really great dynamic defense, etc. But the point you just hit on, the fact that Julius Randle and Nas Reed cannot play with each other, I think is more of a problem than whatever's going on with the age of this team, particularly at the point guard position and the center position. And the fact that John Meringer has not really come been the, the heir to the Rudy Gobert French center dominance.

[Zena]

Tough to ask a rookie to do that, right?

[Dave]

Right.

[Baron]

Absolutely. Absolutely. But you're. You're still not seeing him come along fast enough.

[Dave]

So I think going to be opportunity. Right?

[Zena]

Right.

[Dave]

He doesn't play that much and I, that's. That's something that I do think. And I'm glad you brought him up, Baron, because I think that the Wolves need to give him a shot like get some regular rotation because that would unlock a lot for you.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It.

[Dave]

It means you don't have to find a home for Nas Reed or Julius Randle because now you have another big. That you can stick these guys with. So I, I'm glad you brought him up because I do think that his development will be important for, you know, are they on a two timelines thing? Because, oh my God, I was really young.

[Zena]

They are kind of old.

[Dave]

Right.

[Baron]

Tap into it. They need to learn the lesson from the warriors and tap into their younger core sooner before you have a situation where Joel Barringer does not know how to play alongside the key members of this team until they're older. And then it becomes an urgency factor of why haven't you caught up so. Or why aren't you already at the level and they haven't gotten the reps.

[Zena]

I think one of the issues. And it's so funny because like this we're going 10 minutes on an honorable mention here. But like, I think one of. I think one of the issues with that is like, Anthony Edwards is ready to win now. So you have a guy, right, who is completely ready to win now. And maybe, you know, he has his flaws as a playmaker, etc. Like, how can he be the best guy on a finals team? Different question. He is ready to win now. So how do you get the pieces together? How do you get the young guys to catch up to what he has? I think that's the question for them.

[Dave]

Moving forward anyways, is Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels and then everything else around it, you know, so you can see if they can keep this cycling along. We maybe don't think about them in this way because they moved in so heavy for the on the Rudy deal, but yeah, they they've got some Runway, man. Pretty good. That's a good honorable mention.

[Baron]

Way to start us off.

[Dave]

8 1/2 minutes on Nikhil Alexander Walker's signing trade, I think.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And two, like, to that last point, we would probably be saying Nikhil as a part of that, like, core, that, like younger core. Okay. Number 10, Quentin Grimes, traded from the Dallas Mavericks. A team that needs guards, that needs shot creation, that needs somebody that can do a little something on the perimeter with a 20, 25 second round pick for Caleb Martin and a 2030 second round pick. Not, not a great deal there for the Mavericks. And it honestly hasn't quite worked out for Billy either, just because they were not able to come to an agreement on a contract extension. I don't really know what happens with Quentin Grimes from here, but this is kind of like a whole lot of nothing for, like a potentially, like, rotation player. And I just think it, it makes my list. It's a, it's a super bad deal for, and a host of bad deals for the Dallas Mavericks.

[Zena]

Yeah. But multiple nominees here for the Dallas Mavericks as well.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There, there's some, there's another Mavericks trade in here somewhere, at least. So. Any other thoughts on that one? We don't have to spend eight minutes on this one.

[Dave]

You know, I think when we see what they flip him for, we can go back to this and figure out, all right, did Philly, did Philly. I mean, Philly wound up with the better player and they got a pick. So I, I, I'd say, you know, they did pretty well whether they get, you know, a first for him or not. I, I doubt at this point, but I mean, he's, they're, gonna, they're gonna flip him at the deadline, I imagine.

[Zena]

Yeah. Especially because VJ Edgecomb is just out of Here.

[Dave]

Right.

[Zena]

Like, he's ready.

[Dave]

Ridiculous.

[Zena]

That game last night, he was insane. And it's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's crazy.

[Baron]

Okay.

[Zena]

Sorry. Go ahead. You're good?

[Baron]

Yeah, yeah. No, the only thing I was gonna say, that it helped from the perspective of, like, I don't think I knew that Quentin Grimes was capable of 40 point games until he got to Philly. Or like, if you guys remember that the. But when he first got there, he was balling outrageous for Philly. And then things have simmered down. Tyrese Maxey has reminded everyone it's his team. And BJ Edgecomb has come in this season and been as solid as human possible, but for a rookie to be. And it's forced Quentin Grimes back into this rotational role, but it helped his brand a little bit. For me, I think a lot more people knew his name from how he was taking over games while Billy was just decimated. Basically gutted last year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Which is. Which is all the reason why it's such a bad deal for Dallas, who could.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Caleb Martin is averaging like 1.5 points per game right now, so.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Product of Heat culture there. Caleb Martin. Okay. Next deal. I'm struggling to know what to call this one. Is this the Davion Mitchell trade? Is this the. What do we call this one? This is a five team trade.

[Zena]

Yes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That included Davion Mitchell.

[Zena]

Yep.

[Andrew Schlecht]

To Miami. This is the Jimmy Butler deal, which, I mean, Zena, we can. We can turn this over to you. The. The Miami Heat moved on from Jimmy Butler. What they got in return is fine. Like, they're. It's getting Andrew Wiggins. Fine. Getting Davion Mitchell. Honestly, he's been awesome for them this year.

[Zena]

Yeah, he's been great. Saved his career.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, it really did.

[Guest Speaker]

He.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's such a Heat player. Oh, my gosh. Like, it just makes so much sense. But then Jimmy to Golden State, and I would love to just know your. Your thoughts as we are several months out from that deal now.

[Baron]

Yeah, I mean, he joins the team, they go 23 and eight to close the rest of the season. He elevates them into the playoffs, gives Stephen Curry the much needed break he needs and the balance he needs to close that season. Of course, injury and age played a factor towards the end of that year, but you come into this season, you talk about what they did over the summer. Jimmy Butler invited everybody to his house, immediately buys into what the warriors are trying to do now. What has that resulted in this season? A lot of average play. So we haven't quite seen the same level of success that we saw at the end of last year in this season for the warriors, but it still does something that's incredibly valuable for the warriors, which is give them a different look when Stephen Curry isn't available or just needs a break. So I think that you'll. You can't put a price tag on that for the warriors to be able to have that. They, unfortunately, the warriors still need someone else. I still think it's. Could be. Could be sitting on their bench and just not playing, but there's opportunity there for them to go get someone that they can bring in to kind of really put all the puzzle pieces together. Now, the other thing that you can't put a price on is Jimmy's happy. He's not doing, you know, the things that he was doing in Miami what we saw him do in Minnesota, but we kind of saw him do in Chicago. I mean, we've these multiple iterations of Jimmy Butler not being happy.

[Zena]

I would be happy with $50 million a year as well. Absolutely, Absolutely.

[Baron]

Exactly. So Jimmy Butler is doing the whole, like, I. I'm actually not going to use that phrase. I was going to say shut up and dribble thing, but he's playing and he's happy and he, like, he likes the competition. Of course, he's not happy with the results of where they're at right now, but even the whole Draymond Kerr thing, like, he came out and said he gets turned on by the competition factor. So he likes being in a. In a place where people really care about trying to be better and wanting to win, and he's bought in. And I think, yeah, $50 million will buy you in very nicely. But for both teams, for the Miami Heat to get rid of what they labeled and see as a cancer in their locker room, that is incredibly valuable. And to be able to start the process of moving on. Right. And then the. The warriors being able to have a buffer and a cushion for Stephen Curry alongside him, that's incredibly valuable. So I think, I mean, I know we've got this at what, number nine out of 10.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Baron]

And I get it. Why? Because it hasn't necessarily resulted in a lot of success. However, I do think this is valuable long term for a lot of. For the Miami heats future and for the closing window of Stephen Curry.

[Dave]

Is there an argument that the warriors would be better if they still had Andrew Wiggins this year? Between his defense, his willingness to shoot and space the floor, his ability to play in transition, I mean, his athleticism, which is something that they're sorely lacking. And this isn't to say that, you know, Jimmy Butler isn't working out for the warriors, because I don't think we really know until we see this team in the playoffs. And we may not see that this year, but Wiggins, the guy, the guy plays. I mean, the way that you watch, like Wiggins and Davion Mitchell in Miami, I would rather have those two guys than Jimmy Butler if I'm trying to win basketball games.

[Baron]

So the only thing I'll. I'll push back on that is. You're absolutely right. Let's just be real, like the numbers that Andrew Wiggins had.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Baron]

In. In with the warriors, very comparable to what Jimmy was doing offensively. The only difference is Jimmy is a much better playmaker. Right. Like, he's assisting way better.

[Dave]

But their issues, they're made more glaring. And there's a hard. Like we've talked about this, we talked about it with. With Kaminga not being able to play with. With Butler and with Draymond.

[Zena]

Right.

[Dave]

So you. You kind of exasperate their issues. You take away shooting by playing Jimmy. You take away a willing shooter, to be honest with you, because Jimmy Butler doesn't really want to take a ton of shots. And I think that that causes a lot of congestion for them. The other thing is, like, their defense. I mean, Wiggins as a defender, I think I would rather have one possession, Jimmy Butler. Okay. But over the course of an entire game, I'd rather, probably have Andrew Wiggins. I just think the energy and the athleticism gives him an edge over 48 minutes.

[Zena]

I think I would rather have Jimmy Butler. I. I also. I think the reason I would rather have Jimmy Butler is because your ceiling as a team is higher if you have a guy like him again in a playoff setting. What's right about what you're saying, Dave, in my opinion, is, like, it hasn't addressed their major problems, which is size, which is defense, which is athleticism. It's obviously additive to have a score, a guy who can score like Jimmy Butler and get to the free throw line, but at the same time, there's no other avenues for them to grow their team to that point. Maybe it is a Jonathan Kaminga trade that can bring them a big man or some athleticism on the way.

[Baron]

But, yeah, that's the thing. I would say that what you're missing in Andrew Wiggins, you're starting to see Danthy, Melton and Ro Richard kind of combine to give you that there's. When there's when the Anthony Melton has been scoring better as of late coming off of his injury. But you're getting 53% from the field out of Will Richard and great defense, little turnover. And the Anthony Mountain is also giving you the defense, so you kind of address that aspect of it. But Jimmy Butler as beautifully laid out, your ceiling is higher. Like this is a guy that can drop 50 in the playoffs. Like you want that alongside Stefan, right? Like that's. Andrew Wiggins was not that target and he didn't have the gravity that a Jimmy Butler has. There wasn't a ton of clearing out for Andrew Wiggins in the last few years with the warriors in the way that you could have with Jimmy Butler. And the other thing I'll say is the last part is exactly what SU just hit on. More than anything. More than anything, this team needs a big man. They just need a very large person and it'll cover up a lot of the things that you're talking about in terms of like the defensive stoppers. Like, okay, if you don't have perimeter stoppers, you got somebody at the rim that is just going to put it down. And you're seeing glimpses of it in Quentin Post and glimpses of it and tjd, but it's not as consistent and you don't have Al Horford in a consistent way. So they just need an athletic big man that also knows how to play with an off step. And yeah, they feel like they're going.

[Dave]

To lose in the play end to me, you know, they, I, I wouldn't be worried about the warriors at all if I was on your team.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's why this one is low. Is that like. Yeah, I just think they're just not.

[Dave]

It's also kind of random that the way they wound up with Jimmy Butler. Random? Well, he almost went to three other places.

[Zena]

It was desperate, right? It was one of those moves where they, they felt like they had to do something to extend the Steph Curry dr, Steve Kerr kind of like window here and funny enough, like they're back in that same spot again, you know. So to your point, probably the right spot for this trade.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, from the Davion Mitchell trade, we'll go to another Raptors trade. Brandon Ingram. Oh, to the Raptors for Bruce Brown. Kelly Olenek, a 2026 first round pick and a 2031 second round pick. This is shown to be like really good value for the Raptors. This is kind of how the Raptors have done business is that they look for guys that are undervalued try to find them and trade for them and rehab their value there to keep or to trade or whatever they're going to do. It's just kind of how you have to do business in that market if you're not going to tank. And I don't think they're going to tank. So this is kind of the route that they've chosen and this is a deal that's paid off for them. They didn't have to give up much. For a guy who's been really good this year.

[Zena]

Yeah. He surprisingly is near the top of the league in minutes played, which is not something we've been able to say for Brandon Ingram.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Over the past couple years, I think injuries have been such a huge part of, like, the conversation when it comes to bi. So the fact that he is healthy.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think he leads the league in minutes. Is that true? He.

[Zena]

He was at some point. I don't know if he still is, but he. He should be near the top of the league right now in minutes played. I mean, that's a testament to, like, him just staying healthy. Let's see.

[Dave]

Yeah, he leads the league.

[Baron]

Do you mean total or like, per game?

[Zena]

Total. Total minutes played. He has 11, 63 minutes played. Yeah, actually, him.

[Baron]

And he does. He leads the league right now.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

That's insane.

[Zena]

Wow.

[Baron]

I did not know this up.

[Zena]

So, I mean, look, the fact that he's played, I don't think he's missed a game this season. And this is a guy who, as we talked about last year, like, has failed to play 65 plus games in every year but his rookie season. So so far the trade has been good. Hopefully he doesn't get hurt. And this is one of those things where he actually has a healthy season because like you said, Andrew, you know, he recoups his value. He's played very well for them. They've obviously, I think, benefited from the fact that the Eastern Conference has this kind of like, malaise in the. In the middle of it. Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Where they're fourth. They're fourth in. In a stretch where you're like, man, the Raptors have been kind of brutal lately.

[Zena]

And it's like, yeah, they've sucked in December. Still somehow fourth court advantage. Yeah.

[Baron]

So I want to ask you. I'm looking at that list now just because you mentioned. I was like, wow, Brandon, good for you. But who's number three on that list is Scotty Barnes.

[Zena]

I saw that.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

And it immediately makes me think, of course, the warriors just play Toronto and you saw just the lack of a bench.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

And that is what really concerns me for the Raptors is just like you get Brandon Ingram coming in, and what I particularly love about Brandon Ingram is that he's come in very similar to Jimmy and like, understood, this isn't my team. You know, this. I'll contribute what I need to contribute. And I think that's great that you have a scorer like him. Just buy into what they're doing and the schemes that. That Darko's putting them in. But then I'm worried of, like, the health thing. Can they make it to a postseason? And they're in a position to make it to the postseason. But, like, how can they. How can they keep up with.

[Zena]

How can they keep.

[Baron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zena]

They also have, I think, the second or third hardest schedule moving forward.

[Dave]

They're.

[Zena]

They're going to be playing some tough teams moving forward, which is the other thing here. To your point about that, I, I agree. I think the biggest issue with their depth is that they get small really quickly. They actually have a very similar issue to the warriors where because Yaka Pertle is hurt and he's. He's been dealing with this back thing for a really long time. Without him, they don't have any other guy who's seven feet tall. That's why they signed Mo Bamba off of the streets to come and play.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's go.

[Zena]

So it's just like, I, I think that's one thing. This is a team that's going to make a trade. By February 5, we are going to be talking about them making either a very dumb trade or a big.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Where does Anthony Davis.

[Dave]

Could they maybe make a trade with the Orlando Magic?

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zena]

I, I could see Goga.

[Dave]

You know, there's.

[Zena]

There's reporting behind that. The fact that they're interested in Gogo Batase. Anthony Davis could be one of those guys. I could see that, too. Shout out to Sheck, Wes. You know, I'm actually now two degrees of separation away from Paul T.H. anderson, the director, because he used.

[Dave]

Love.

[Zena]

That's right. Yeah. But yes, I. They will make a trade. Somehow, some way, they will shake up their roster because they have. They have like seven shooting guards. If you go look at their roster, they have seven shooting guards. They have to make some sort of trade to balance out the team.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah. That is interesting.

[Zena]

Yeah. And they basically have leaned into Project 69 again, which is, you know.

[Dave]

Well, they were stuck there. Let's be. Let's be.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They're back. Yeah, they're back.

[Dave]

Okay. But they barely were getting out. Right.

[Zena]

I know. Yeah.

[Dave]

It take. It's going to take them years to recover from the mismanagement that happened for a couple of seasons, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. Some good basketball documentaries being made, but not good basketball teams.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And I will say, like, part of the minutes thing that we were talking about earlier is, like, mostly due to the fact that they played all their games and Scotty.

[Zena]

Yeah. They've been healthy. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And you look at, like, the minutes per game, though. They're not. I mean, they're. They're outside, like the top, like 20 in minutes per game. You have guys like Maxi, who's played 39 minutes a game.

[Zena]

Yeah. Well, he's insane. I don't know how he does it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave]

Well, he.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The thing is, like, he doesn't Wild, doesn't play every game he's missing. Doesn't play every game he's Ms.

[Zena]

Very Nick Nurse thing, by the way, for Maxi to be paying like, 45 minutes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I mean, some of the Rockets guys are way up there. Almond Thompson plays 36 minutes a game. Kevin Durant plays 36 minutes a game. Like, like, if we're like, that's a little scary. James Harden plays almost 36 minutes a game.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So they're not. It's not crazy. A lot of it is just like, they, They've.

[Zena]

They've been available.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Okay, next trade. This would be seven on the list.

[Zena]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Michael Porter Jr. Oh. Traded to the Brooklyn Nets from Denver.

[Baron]

This is a big one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

With a 2032 first round pick for Cam Johnson.

[Zena]

Kind of wild how this discussion will have flipped immensely over the last six months. My goodness.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep. Wow. Listen, I asked this question in Vegas. I was like, do we just not like Michael Porter Jr. Because of what he says on podcasts?

[Zena]

Yes.

[Dave]

No. There's more to it than that. There's more to it than that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm just asking the question. I'm not, I'm not trying to push.

[Dave]

In a direction, maybe asking questions. Dumb guy. Sure. But on the basketball, the issues have largely been health. Right. And then that has led to inconsistency on the court as far as defensive effort goes. But the guy is a. An amazing shooter. Actually, I saw him at Hoop Summit for the first time And I said, wow, 610 Klay Thompson.

[Zena]

Yeah, he really is that.

[Baron]

So funny. Called him six ten Steph Curry, so.

[Dave]

Okay, well, Steph is a different. I mean, Steph moves with the ball in his hand, but he can finish plays. And he actually is a Good rebounder and. And can be a decent defender at times, but it was just the at times part of that. And the at times on being healthy and hitting shots. I mean, he's got a bad back, which for a basketball player is not good.

[Zena]

He literally wears a brace that goes all the way down to his.

[Dave]

Because he's got drop foot. Because he's got dropped from a nerve issue. Now, I don't know if you guys have ever. I had a severely sprained ankle once and, like, ruptured three tendons in my ankle. And I had drop foot for about 18 months. And it is awful. I was tripping over the sidewalk. You know, like that thing where you do the shuffle step and hope no one saw you all like, almost every day. Like, I would be out on a walk and I would do that five or six times. Like, it is very difficult. So this is what it is. It's all of the things. And then the cherry on top is that he goes on podcasts and sounds like he's never read a book in his life.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I'll say this. Cam Johnson's played less games the last three years than mpj. Mpj.

[Zena]

That is true. Right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

So, like, I'm still not even buying that one. Dave.

[Dave]

Mpj, he play. He played hurt in the playoffs with the shoulder issue last year. Like, I'm not saying the guy isn't tough.

[Baron]

That's the thing. There are many injured players or players that are constantly hurt that we still like and we still are rooting for and we still are, like, holding out hope. MPJ is not one of those people on that list. You know, like, we just don't. We don't put him in high consideration. And I think it's mainly because we don't necessarily love his off the court discourse. But you cannot deny what's going on right now in Brooklyn. Like, it's.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Baron]

Crazy numbers he's putting up. And let's just be real.

[Dave]

The.

[Baron]

The way that he came in so dominantly. So, like, this is. I mean, it's not his. Well, I mean, hell, it is his team because Cam Thomas is the best player on there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

And you. You see, like, the confidence with which she came in, and then you just saw, like, the meekness that Cam Johnson came and started the season with with Denver. And I think that just like, not. Not being as confident, not being like, Cam, you were the baddest girl at the club. Like, we. We use this analogy at all times. Like, we talked about people lining up, buying you drinks. They knew you were with your man and they still were trying to buy you drinks. Like, people were like, really, like, really incentivized to go after Cam Johnson because he was the best option there. Meanwhile, Michael Porter Jr. Is in the background of everything, just kind of like, am I going to be the person? We didn't even know what was going to really be the truth.

[Dave]

Can I.

[Zena]

Can I play devil's advocate real quick?

[Dave]

Real quick? I think it's easier for MPJ to go say, hey, I'm gonna be the guy that takes all these shots than it is to be Cam Johnson who was taking shots.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Baron]

We couldn't even see Cam Johnson take the shots that he was supposed to take.

[Zena]

Right.

[Dave]

That's.

[Zena]

I'll also say this. This trade cannot be mentioned without talking about how it opened up the window for the Nuggets to add their depth. So Tim Hardaway Jr. Was a big part of this. Jonas Valentunas is a big part of this. They added those guys because they got out of the situation with Michael Porter Jr. So it's kind of like those two have to be included in this trade in some way. But I will say, I think the Nets will end up being the biggest winners in this because we've seen Jordy Fernandez and the Nets get a lot out of their wing type players. Cam Johnson had a really good year last year because of what they were able to run offensively for him. Mikhail Bridges before that was. I mean, he had some of his best offensive seasons as a Brooklyn Net because of what Jordy Fernandez was kind of instilling offensively. I think that's a huge part of what you're seeing with what Michael Porter Jr. Is doing. He just knows how to put guys, specifically those types of players, in the right positions to thrive offensively. We're gonna see Michael Porter Jr. Get traded. He's gonna net them maybe one or even two first round picks. And now you've got potentially two or three first rounders for Cam Johnson, which is.

[Dave]

That's a big win.

[Zena]

Yeah. You know.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

Yeah, that's a huge win.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, it is. Especially with where the Nets are in their rebuild. You know, like, they. They need to add picks.

[Zena]

I think the Nuggets.

[Dave]

Can I. Can I make a fake MPJ trade real quick? Like.

[Zena]

Sure. All right.

[Dave]

I know this is crazy. S Especially is going to think it's crazy. Oh, the Raptors, the Orlando Magic.

[Zena]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Dave]

Right. They have this interesting issue with Paolo Banchero and the fit of their team.

[Zena]

Oh, this is insane.

[Baron]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Would Brooklyn be.

[Baron]

These are things that we thought were going to stay in the group.

[Dave]

What would Brooklyn give up?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

In addition to mpj to get Paolo Van Garo. Right. Like mpj, that. That makes Orlando really good. All of a sudden they've got a guy who can stretch the floor at the 4. I mean, he fits a little bit better with the Franz and Suggs and Bane thing.

[Zena]

I can't get it.

[Baron]

Paolo fit. What Brooklyn is trying to do or not trying to. They're doing.

[Dave]

Don't they just want player? Isn't Paulo a star? Like, wouldn't you give up?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is he.

[Zena]

It would be the.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is he? Is he?

[Dave]

That is the is. That's the question. S. I don't know.

[Zena]

Paulo has been wildly disappointing. I saw a stat the other day where he is literally the worst pull up shooter in the league Reno when.

[Baron]

By a distance.

[Zena]

By it. By a large distance. And so I. I agree that he maybe isn't the guy everybody's touting him to be. But you got to get more than Michael Porter Jr. If you're trading Paula.

[Dave]

Oh, sure.

[Zena]

Yeah. And a lot more, I would say.

[Dave]

Because he's the number one. He's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's like one. You're not sure. You're not trading Palo.

[Dave]

They're not.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

No.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And I don't know that the. The Nets have like the right.

[Dave]

I don't think they have this.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think if. If it. If we could just like take away the fact that Paula was the number one pick. If we could take away the fact that they have like tried to like hand the keys to the franchise to Paulo. If, like all of that was wiped out and these were just. Everything is just flat. It's like, would Michael Porter Jr. Make this Orlando Magic team a little bit better? It's possible. Like, that's not off the table.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah, there'd be more roster balance, that's for sure.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But there is no chance. Like, this is. Oh, this is like NBA politics. Like, there's just no chance that this.

[Zena]

Call USA Paolo Banchero, he's not getting traded.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There's no chance. And like, Paulo's still young as well. A lot of times we kind of like push these guys to be like, you have to be a winner, you know, right away or else this or this or that. And like, I don't know, this roster has been built a little weird for a guy. Like. Like it's not ideal for him. And some of it is the draft picks that they've made and some of it is that he's off to like a really slow start this year. And so I, I don't know.

[Baron]

I think it's also because he's 610 and massive. People are just like, yeah, they expect someone of that size to just dominate in every way. And he. I mean, let's just be real. Paulo's been getting some triple doubles in his sleep. It's just not as efficient as we'd like it to look. And it's not. And we.

[Zena]

That's my issue.

[Dave]

There's some clunkiness to what they have going on in general. Right. Like they're. They have an organizational issue on offense. Right. Especially when Jalen Suggs isn't out there. Nobody seems to know where they want to be or where they're supposed to be. You know, we've got some people in the chat talking about Jamal Mosley and, And the offense that they run. I would argue, I don't know what Jamal Mosley's offense is supposed to be because it looks so different depending on whether Paolo or Franz are in the game and if they're in there together.

[Baron]

Chance, though, to build it. Like, think about what we.

[Dave]

They haven't been healthy.

[Baron]

They. Exactly. For two years, right? For two years straight, they haven't been healthy. Like, can you blame that. Jamal Mosley's like, all right, well, let's close the book because next week it's gonna be something else. Like, we can't even pull out.

[Zena]

This kind of sounds like. This kind of sounds like the Willie Green.

[Dave]

Willie Green. Yeah, yeah.

[Zena]

I was about to say that sounds. You know, Zion wasn't healthy, right?

[Baron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true.

[Zena]

I don't know.

[Dave]

I usually guys like the, the offense, everyone on the team knows how to run it. Typically, if you've got, if you've got some plays, they don't run a ton of plays. Right. It's a lot of read react. By the way, this is also on.

[Zena]

The players because the players want to play a certain style. Because Paulo likes to play isolation basketball. Because Paulo likes to be that mid range score, etc.

[Dave]

Well, he wants to make the pass to assist too. Yeah, yeah.

[Zena]

To your point, like, this is a 610 guy. I remember standing next to Paulo Ben Cara one day and I'm like, this guy is mean, massive. Like we've. He's huge, right? Like play up to your size. Like, play. Play as physical as you possibly can be. He's not that guy.

[Dave]

I saw him when he was 15 at a USA camp. Team USA camp. I and I was like, this is going to be the first high schooler drafted that. I mean he was. He's been big that long, you know.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Anyways, mpj, that trade has really changed.

[Zena]

Funny way to get to the Palo.

[Dave]

I know we have thought about people. People say an MPJ to the warriors is very funny.

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[Zena]

Another great podcaster in Golden State Good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is there enough room for all these?

[Dave]

We don't need any more Punching in the Bay Area let's just like, let's, let's avoid that.

[Baron]

Yeah, I'm, I'm okay on that one.

[Zena]

All right, what's number five or six or whatever this is, this is radar.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This is number six, Norman Powell. So this is a three team trade. Yeah. Norman Powell traded to Miami as a part of a three team trade. 20, 27 second round pick and $2.5 million to Utah. Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson traded to Utah and John Collins to the LA Clippers.

[Zena]

Man, it, it's so funny because like Kawhi has basically had to average 35 points over the last month.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Zena]

In order to make up for what they miss from the scoring of Norm Powell and James Harden, like we just talked about, is averaging 36 minutes a night because they're missing the scoring of Norm Powell. It just, it's funny because it's one of those trades where in hindsight I re, I mean, I was pretty shocked that they traded Norm instead of just kind of keeping him and kicking the can down the road type of thing. It's looking even worse now from the Clippers perspective.

[Baron]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Bad.

[Dave]

I, I don't hate the idea.

[Zena]

Sure.

[Dave]

Wanting to get a John Collins type bigger, that type of player.

[Zena]

Right.

[Dave]

A guy who can play the 4 4, who can stretch the floor a little bit of rim protection, can play some spot five for you. Like I, I understand it especially because of the way they lost to, to the Nuggets. They got out bigged. But Norm Pal is an All Star.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I mean, I know he didn't make the all star team, but he's an all star level player for the, he.

[Zena]

Might make it this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Dave]

I think he's going to in the East. I just, I, I just don't. The not wanting to pay him. But you're willing to pay Harden and you're willing to continue to pay guys like Kawhi who have availability issues. Yeah, I just, I don't know. Especially after the run they went on where Norm Powell was the one guy that you could trust to shoot the basketball until he got hurt. For the entire season last year, he was the only guy who consistently made shots for them and was playing.

[Zena]

He was not good in that series against Denver.

[Dave]

He was awful. Once he came back after he got hurt. Once he came back, he just didn't shoot the ball well at all. Okay. And if that's your last impression of him, I, it feels like a short sighted, you know, sort of process there. But it was about the money. They just didn't want to pay him. That contract they. All they're eyeing right now is 2027. That's the thing about the Clippers. So, like, whatever they're doing right now, any moves they make.

[Zena]

What kind of aspiration deal do they have though to like cook this up in 2027?

[Dave]

I mean, I, you know, who knows, man? I mean, we might have data centers on the moon by then, so, you know, maybe they were working out some kind of a thing there. I. I don't know. Does the CBA apply if the money comes from the moon? I'm sure that the Clippers will find out.

[Zena]

Right.

[Dave]

But it is. I don't know. Anything that they do from here on is only about that. And so like, nor the moving on from Norm Powell was that it was not to have the long term money. It's been great for Miami.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

He carried them while Tyler Hero was out the. The entire thing where it was like no screens. Norm. That's perfect for Norm Powell. He just wants to run and gun.

[Zena]

Yep.

[Baron]

Yeah. And I'm gonna just bring it all back to. That's why I'm blessed. Andrew Wiggins, like, love Andrew Wiggins, like, personally just love them, etc. But the impact that Norm Powell had versus what Andrew Wiggins had.

[Dave]

Yeah, you know, different roles, but yeah. Yeah.

[Baron]

And that's why I'm like, you can't really compare what Jimmy does for warriors. But Nor Pal.

[Dave]

Too bad the warriors didn't get Norm Powell.

[Baron]

That's right.

[Dave]

Wow.

[Zena]

He would be excellent.

[Baron]

Imagine that. There you go. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

[Zena]

Oh, my God. Can you imagine?

[Andrew Schlecht]

They.

[Zena]

I feel like they would probably be in the playoffs if they had Norm, Pal.

[Dave]

Honestly, Steph and Norm would be pretty fun to watch.

[Zena]

That's like.

[Baron]

Like Miami got Norm and Andrew, like, and Davion Mitchell. And Davion Mitchell.

[Zena]

If there was a way to replicate clay without. Replicate. Without getting clay.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Norm is sort of that type of player. Right. That can kind of be a facsimile of that anyways.

[Baron]

Yeah, he's just a plug and play like, God, like, he plays alongside anybody. He puts his points up. I just. Yeah, he is. He's a luxury that the Miami Heat have gotten from the Clippers. And it's like, I know they're waving. Thank you so much for not knowing what you had under or on your roster. And I don't know if the Clippers didn't know, but they definitely didn't value him enough.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right. We are inside the top five now. Oh, this is the fifth best trade according to me. Okay. A 20, 28 first round pick which is happens to be Orlando's pick. Two second round picks and Hanson Young for Cedric Coward.

[Zena]

Wow.

[Andrew Schlecht]

On draft night. I, I think this is an incredible deal by Memphis. Coward is one of those guys where if you had to give up an additional first round pick just to get him, like, it's totally worth it because he's been that good. He was amazing for Memphis last night. He's been really good so far this season. He's a guy who plays like he's been in the league for a long time already. And I think that he is going to be kind of like the face of like the next phase of whatever Memphis is. I don't know what. I don't know what they are. They're kind of a mess right now because of some of the guys that they have at these top spots. I just don't think deserve to be there. But Coward, that was an amazing deal and I think will impact the future of the Memphis Grizzlies for like a very long time.

[Dave]

He should have been the final piece, right?

[Zena]

He should have.

[Dave]

Jaw. You got Jaren, Jalen Wells is really good. You got Zach, Edie and Coward would complete the set. And the guy, like you said, he plays like he's been there when he gets. And this is going to come for him when he can get into his mid range game, which I think he does have.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

This guy. I don't, I don't know what his ceiling is.

[Zena]

He's going to be an all NBA guy.

[Dave]

I was gonna say he might be an all NBA guy. And you can see. Oh, man.

[Andrew Schlecht]

If.

[Dave]

If Ja has that guy next to him, all of a sudden Jaw's life is easier. And we saw Ja looking way more explosive the last couple games.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Dave]

All of this starts to come together and look much better as these guys get healthier. I think. You know what Coward has done so far this season. I. Andrew, I agree with you. I think if they had. If they had given up another first, I would have hammered it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

When it happened. And I'd be eating crow right now.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

That dude's good.

[Zena]

It's so funny that like you have to have the top guys hold up their end of the bargain here for the Memphis because to your point, this is the f. This felt like it could have been the final piece of the puzzle for Memphis because. Right. You look at what. How many times did they try to get a wing of the future. They tried to trade for Zaire Williams in the draft. Zaire Williams did not become that. Jalen Wells was a really great kind of turnout for them, but I don't think he has that high end upside. Very good role player, Right?

[Dave]

Might be Cam Johnson.

[Zena]

Sure. Yeah, it might be Cam Johnson. But Cedric Coward very clearly has like all star, all NBA potential, and he's the final puzzle piece. It's just, can Jaw hold up his end of the bargain? And to your point, yeah, he's been playing better recently. Can Jaren Jackson Jr.

[Dave]

Hold? Jaren?

[Zena]

Yeah. Can Edie stay healthy? Right. That's. That's the other part of this. It's just there's so many different questions for this Grizzlies team. But to your point, Andrew. Yeah. Future is bright with Cedric Coward. Like, he's just. He's awesome. There's. There's going to be a lot of teams that are kicking themselves because they passed up on him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I get a text during every Grizzlies game from Keith Parrish about Coward. I mean, yeah, he rocks.

[Baron]

Can I just add one thing about just Cedric Coward fitting what Memphis is doing. Memphis is known, and I'm literally like reading this. So the city and its people have a history of overcoming challenges, and they, like, list out, like the yellow fever epidemics of the 1870s, the complex modern issues. There is a strong sense of. Of perseverance and kinship among residents. Like, that's what Memphis is known for. And when you think about Cedric Coward's story of how he got to the league and him being someone that was overlooked in high school, goes D3, dominates there, transfers to Washington State, had an injury, then becomes a lottery pick. Yeah, like the. It's this. It's not only just the way he plays. And I agree. All the things you guys mentioned, definitely all star level. I don't know. I don't know if he'll become all NBA, maybe second team, whatever, but he's definitely capable, has that caliber of game. But it's just how beautiful this trade ended up matching the essence of Coward to Memphis. He really does represent that really well now. I'm hoping that Memphis stays in Memphis. We don't know what's going to happen with these teams, but there is this element of the city matching with Cedric, and I don't know. That always gets me too. When I, like, hear him talk and hear his story, I'm like, this, this works. This grit, this resilience, it works.

[Dave]

He feels like a grit and grind guy.

[Baron]

Exactly.

[Zena]

He plays like he's 30 years old, which is a compliment. I really do feel like That's a compliment.

[Baron]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Plays like an old man.

[Dave]

There's a huge advantage when these guys can come in with an NBA ready body. And I mean, this draft class is, is just loaded with those dudes. I, I'm. I don't know. This draft class has been awesome.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Eye opening.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's very good.

[Dave]

Con canipple is having a ridiculous shooting season. I mean, it's just. I could go down the, the list of draft guys. It's like, oh, this guy is so good at this.

[Zena]

If there's one guy that has a chance to beat the Steph record, it might be concept. I mean, the pace he's going at.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Pretty absurd.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Different.

[Zena]

Different.

[Dave]

Yeah. It's like home runs.

[Zena]

Yeah, it's over.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Baron]

Steph, he's got 10 points, two rebounds and forces so far against the warriors right now. So I'm watching him just. He started off the game with an easy three. Just. Yeah, he's. He's great. Yeah, he's very good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. The team that's kicking themselves the most about Cedric Coward is the Blazers, who literally traded this pick to Memphis.

[Dave]

Okay, the jury's still out on my guy.

[Baron]

I'm not, I'm not giving up on young man. I'm not giving up on him yet.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Ye.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right, next one. Mojave King. Do you know where I'm going with this? Anybody?

[Zena]

Mojave King. Why do I remember that name?

[Andrew Schlecht]

His draft rights were traded to the New Orleans Pelicans from the Pacers with a 2025 first round pick, which is the 23rd pick for the Pacers own 2026 first round draft pick. This pick, we don't know what it is yet, but I think this is the fourth best trade of the year, period.

[Zena]

They got their pick back two days before Halliburton got hurt.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes. Yeah, they got their pick back. They had. They currently have the worst record in the NBA. They've lost nine in a row. They're not good. They were not going to be good this year and this could have happened without them having their draft pick, which would be a complete disaster.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The Pacers are almost never bad like this. Like it has never really happened in the history of their team that they are this bad. And so the fact that it happened this year, they have their pick and maybe their record is not this bad. If they don't have their pick, maybe they pull a few more strings and try to get more guys in there to try to just, I don't know, try to make the play In. In the east, which is not a very hard thing to do. But they have the worst record in the NBA. And if this. If they end up with one of the top three picks, if they end up with Cameron, Boozer, Peterson, or Debancer, then this team is back. Like, you get Halliburton back, you. You bring up a guy who could end up being the second best or even the best player on your team. Then, like the Pacers, who were just in the finals last year, are on their way back to being the best team in the East. You know, every team's like, standing back saying, like, I don't know who wants to be the best team in the East? I don't know. None of us want to be the best team in the East. It's nobody right now.

[Zena]

It's going to be Boston and Indiana again.

[Dave]

It is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes, it will.

[Dave]

It might be Boston this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It could be Boston.

[Dave]

It might be Boston this year. I'm going crazy watching the Celtics and thinking, yeah, and look, this is. This is such a great trade for a lot of reasons. Number one, you get your pick back, which means you control your own destiny. Number two, it happened during the Finals, which is amazing.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Incredible that they did this during the Finals. And I understand if you're New Orleans, you're thinking, oh, well, they're in the Finals. Seems to be good next year. Yeah, sure. No big deal. And then just dumb turn of luck. I would say this is the basketball gods rewarding ethical hoops. If I really wanted to lean in on it, you know, sure. This is what I talk about with unweighting the lottery. Like, good things should be able to happen to good teams, you know, and in this case, they had something bad happen. But I actually think this is a positive. I am rooting for this team to get a top three pick in next year's draft because I like seeing these good young guys wind up on good teams. It's fun for San Antonio, too. I was.

[Zena]

That was. That's the exact team I was thinking of. They can. Tim Duncan this thing. Yep. Right. Where they can find their next generational star while having Halliburton and Pascal and basically the infrastructure to do that. They're also. There's like, there's a big. In this draft, you know, Cam Booze. I don't know if Cam is going to be able to play center, but, like, there is a big. In this draft in the top three that they could probably find. That's the crazy part about the Pacers. And also to the point that on the break pod mentioned in the comments here. Yeah, this pick moved around a lot. So this was originally part of the Pascal Siakam trade.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Zena]

Toronto had the pick, they traded it back to New Orleans for Brandon Ingram and then they traded it back to the Pacers in that trade that you just mentioned. So it kind of shifted hands over a year and luckily it ended up back in the Pacers hands, which is crazy.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I think it's, it's a great deal. We'll see. We'll see where it ends up for Indiana, but regardless is a great trade for them. Okay. The number three trade of the year, Kevin Durant traded to the Houston Rockets for Jalen Green. Dylan Brooks, the 10th pick in the draft. This is, this is a really nice deal for Houston. Like Houston has taken a level up since getting kd. We'll see how it pays off. It's really all like playoffs for them. Like are. Are they able to advance to the conference finals or at least to the second round? That happens. I think that it's a success for them. They get off the Jalen Green contract. I don't know where everybody stands with that. I think it's a great thing. I think it's worth the Kevin Durant trade, even if you don't make it out of round one, to just get off of that Jalen Green deal and have Katie there. But this is, this is the, the third pick or the third.

[Dave]

Honestly, for me, I think, I think.

[Zena]

This has also turned out decently for Phoenix. They, they, I, they bucked my expectations. I did not think this was going to be a good team this year, but like Dylan Brooks has been a welcome presence for them. Huge lift defensively. We'll see if. Come on. Malawatch ends up becoming anything. That was obviously the pick that they got for this and they took a swing on Jalen Green. Like you said, that contract. We'll see if that ends up being a thing. He's been pretty hurt this year, so we haven't been able to see him. But overall I, I think it's, it's not a win win because the other team gets Kevin Durant and now is vaunted into like championship window contention mode. But I, I think given the context and given the situation, Phoenix did turn a bad situation into a decent one, which I guess should be commended a little bit.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. And had had the, the Suns taken Cedric Coward, then like we'd be talking, we would might be talking about that as. Oh yeah, complete flip deal for, for Phoenix because Then they would have like a, a real roadmap. And we don't know what Malawatch is.

[Zena]

Going to look like, but he's not Cedric.

[Dave]

Okay, but from, from an organizational standpoint for the Suns, they were the most expensive team in basketball last year. They solved that problem and it looks like they're going to be a playoff team.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Not even a play in team. Like they're looking like a six seed. I don't know. I. This is a, you know, someone in the comments said it's the rare trade where everyone's happy. I think we've actually had a few of those as we've gone through this list. There's been a lot of win wins. This is a huge one. I mean it allowed the Suns to clean house. They got a young coach. You know what I mean? Like they really just have changed everything there and, and it gives them a chance to start out fresh. So I think that the Suns have made out pretty well too.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, no question. Okay. Number two, de' Aaron Fox traded to the San Antonio spurs in a three team deal. Zach Levine. I still can't believe this deal. Like this is just like, oh my God. Somehow the Bulls raise their hand and be like, we'll, we'll do this. We would like to be a part of what's happening here. Zach Levine and a 2025 second round pick to Sacramento. Sacramento traded Kevin Herder to Chicago. Sacramento traded Jordan McLaughlin to the San Antonio Spurs. San Antonio straight Zach Collins and Trey Jones in a 2025 second round pick. City Sissoko was also in this deal. A 2025 first round pick. A 26.

[Zena]

Well, that changes, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

And a first round pick. So. And what's funny is that like the spurs have a ton of draft picks and they have a ton of like premium draft picks and they traded like none of those in this deal to the Kings for this. And dear. And Fox is still a great player. Still a great, great player. It's a great deal for them. They gave up hardly anything. They didn't really, they didn't really have to give up much. They gave up no, none of their like young players. Trey Jones is a nice player. He's not one of their like good young players. This is a master class. And the fact that the Kings decided that they wanted to take back Zach Levine like shout out to the Bulls, even though the Bulls aren't in, in a great place right now, but they're in a better place without Zach Levine.

[Dave]

So just a great sneak in. I like, I like that. The bulls just were like, hey, you want to take some of our garbage for us? And now the Kings are stuck with Lavine. Yeah, who I guess you know is going to play out his contract. I I just have no idea what's happening there. Dear Fox, the de' Aaron Fox trade opened Wemby's title window.

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[Dave]

Yeah, and what we're seeing right now, you know, like we, we spent the summer saying, oh, should the spurs trade Dearon Fox? Oh, man, I feel dumb. No team has ever said we don't have enough guys to handle. We have too many guys to handle the ball.

[Baron]

Hand the ball.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

And when you have unselfish guys like, like the spurs have managed to put together, including de' Aaron Fox, I don't know, man. This team is, is so good. You know, you have a guy who is going to perform in the, in the clutch time and not just wimby, right? Like you've got more than one guy who wants to step up. I don't know, dear. And Fox opened the title window for, for Victor Womenyama.

[Zena]

They could be playing in June.

[Dave]

I mean, I'm, I'm planning to, to do some stuff in San Antonio in June, guys. I'm just saying, like, I mean, I'm, I'm making those arrangements as we speak.

[Zena]

Oh, man. I, look, I agree this is obviously a massive win for San Antonio. I just, I can't believe from the king side of things. No, I can believe it. I can believe I was about to give them some snow. I can absolutely believe that this has gone as poorly as they thought. And it's so bleak in Sacramento. This is another team that they have their pick this year. They should really hope, hope that they land a top three pick because, boy, do they need it. They need some sort of direction because you look at the Young guys, it's Keegan Murray, it's Keon Ellis and Nick Clifford and that's it.

[Dave]

What do you guys think about de' Aaron Fox getting himself to San Antonio because he wants to play with Wendy?

[Zena]

I think that was like the vaunted position, right, Because Trey Young wanted to get himself to San Antonio. There was a report a couple years ago where Darius Garland wanted to get himself to San Antonio and Fox kind of won out that, that race, if you will, of like point guards trying to pair alongside Wemby. I I also think he probably was the best choice of all three of those guys because Garland hasn't been able to stay healthy. Trey obviously has his, you know, faults defensively, if you want to call it. And then, yeah, Clutch came in with dear.

[Dave]

Clutch came in the clutch. Because, I mean, Dear. And Fox has a shot at being a Hall of Famer. Yeah, now.

[Zena]

Now he does. Yeah.

[Dave]

Yeah, sure.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I mean, it's gonna change his career. Yeah, it's awesome. Also, de' Aaron Fox is easy to root for.

[Baron]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Which makes it even better.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he's awesome.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I'm glad he's not stuck in Sacramento.

[Zena]

I'm glad he's not crypto scamming anymore.

[Baron]

You know, and he's a really great influence, guys as well. Like, his work ethic. I mean, obviously everything that he's doing off the court is awesome. But like, like just hearing when we were in at the NBA cup, just how he talked about the. The likes of Devin Vassell and Fon Castle and Dylan Harper, like, he is a really great guy to be leading that guard group. Which is. Which adds to why that championship window is open is because you've got these young guys learning from the likes of him. And we talk about why San Antonio is so perfectly well balanced. Like, they have guards who can handle the ball and can score and can score in late game situations. You've got size, you've got a Wemby. I mean, I don't even know if you put that in a category of just size. You just have a Wemby that's its own category. But then that last V Wemby, right?

[Dave]

Like, we gotta start talking about him.

[Baron]

Like he's the Yeti Bigfoot and you've got veteranship. Right? And between de' Aaron Fox and Harrison Barnes being on that team and just kind of knowing how to settle everyone down. Like, you can feel the. The vibe that they give to their team and just like how calm, cool, collected they are. You could see that even when Dear and came last year and when we got hurt and wasn't able to play, like, even still, like you, the way that you saw Deer and Fox interacting with the guards and mixing. Mixing himself in with Chris Paul, even, like, you just. You knew, okay, they're in good hands. And I think that that's why maybe when this year all the guards came back and they were stacked with talent, people were like, oh, do we need dear? Because I think a lot of people are just looking at deer and is like, old head in the room. But now you're seeing. You do want that balance of not only his talent, but also just his know how in the room.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The number one trade of this.

[Zena]

Can I make a guess?

[Dave]

You know, I, I, this is a controversial choice.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'll tell you why it's not, Dave. All right. I'll tell you why it's not.

[Zena]

Hey, also, there's one. I feel like you're missing a trade. I will. We'll get to that a little bit.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We can, we can talk about. What trade am I missing?

[Zena]

The Pelicans giving the Hawks a lottery pick? This.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's true. That's true. This is true. Where does it stand right now?

[Dave]

Yeah, in, in the league.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You're right. I'm sorry. I, I actually had that earlier in my doc, but then I had to reset my dock. I would put that probably right there with the, the Pacers.

[Zena]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave]

Great. It's a great trade for Atlanta.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And I would bump out the Quentin Grimes. Okay, so bump out Quentin Grimes to honor honorable mention.

[Zena]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And then, and then put that trade right there with the Pacers deal.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I want this, though.

[Zena]

And it's another Pelican street, we gotta.

[Dave]

Just say is awesome. Derrick Queen is awesome. If they had just drafted him seventh and not made this trade. We're all in love with what the Pelicans.

[Zena]

Honestly, even Spears is great.

[Dave]

Like, they're both good.

[Zena]

They're both, both really good. Young, talented players, and the future because of those guys is bright. But can you imagine adding Darren Peterson or Boozer or whoever to that group? You know, that's, I feel like there was a better way to go about trading for Derrick Queen than giving your unprotected pick. They overestimated clearly how good they'd be this year.

[Dave]

The talent evaluation is great. I mean, Derrick Queen, I think, is going to be a special player. What he's already done as a rookie, I mean, that triple double game that he had was incredible eye opening. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It, yeah. If they would have just, Would they have said no if it was like, yeah, we'll do that. Top three. Protected.

[Zena]

Protected. Literally anything protected.

[Dave]

If it, yeah, if, if it had been top five protected, we probably all feel like, hey, you know what? Not bad. Not bad. Jerry Queen is that good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, they would have still done it.

[Dave]

Mostly just, man, I love watching him, him play. Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, yeah.

[Dave]

It's just, it's not even that he's effective and good is that he's a style that we don't have a ton of. Yes.

[Zena]

Dave and I are Coming out with a song soon, so.

[Dave]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's right.

[Baron]

Do you have vocals late or not yet?

[Dave]

Not. We got to write the lyrics.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave]

You know, work in progress. We are in the. We have the title of the song and nothing else stage of writing a song.

[Zena]

Pre production. Yeah, not even pre production. Ideation.

[Baron]

Andrew, stop this.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Luca got traded this year. In the middle of the night, Luka Doncic got traded, and it completely ripped apart the Dallas Mavericks.

[Zena]

It ripped apart the NBA for a little bit. It did.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It absolutely did. And it's not like the Lakers are an incredible team now, and they're going to go win so many titles. Like. Like, we don't know what the future of the Lakers looks like. We do know they're not. They're a good team this year. They're not a team that's like, a true contender this year. That's just not the case. However, they have a chance after LeBron is done to kind of reshape the roster and figure out what the future of the Luca Lakers looks like. Luca Lakers looks like they have a chance to do that. And so in Dallas, they've gotten lucky to get Cooper, but that's all that it was, was luck. Like, that's what happened there is that by just crazy odds, they ended up getting the number one pick in the draft. And I think they're going to be fine, too. But we're talking about a team that was thought of as a contender, a team that went to the NBA Finals. And now just because you get the number one pick, ask the Pelicans, doesn't mean that you eventually get to the NBA Finals. Nope. So this. This trade is one that we will talk about for a very, very long time. I don't know if we'll talk about any of these other deals. Honestly, the ones that we might talk about are the ones with the draft picks that we may talk about.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But, like, this one is one we'll talk about forever because of the shock value that was there and because of just what Luca meant to Dallas. I mean, a guy lost his job. Very, very rarely do GMs lose their job because of one trade. Right. And that happened.

[Zena]

There was a literal funeral held in Dallas.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes, there was. It was. It was a crazy, crazy time.

[Dave]

Yeah, I. I'm. It depends on how Luca's career goes. Obviously, when we look at this historically.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

But I was a baseball fan growing up, and you would always hear Babe Ruth was a Red Sox, you know, player and then he went to the Yankees and he did all these things right. And it was like part of their curse.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Yeah. I mean, I. I think that if. If Luca wins a couple championships, a couple MVPs, and Dallas does nothing, we're going to think about this as the Luka Doncic curse on that franchise. That's how big of a deal. And. And it is the most. It has the potential to be the worst trade in sports history.

[Zena]

Yep.

[Dave]

And I do think that's something that the jury's out on because it's going to depend on results. But as of right now, I don't know, man. I. I think that the initial run where Luca just came out and they were gangbusters and then A.D. barely, you know, he didn't really play. And then the way that this season went, where Luca comes out of the gate and he's so good and he's so skinny. What'd you call him? Xena. Men's Health. Luca. Men's Health.

[Baron]

I forgot to ask that question when we were talking about today in Wiki, but I'm like, yeah, like what. Where's. Where's Men's Health?

[Dave]

Luca, right.

[Baron]

Or is he still looking this. It was enough looking that way these days.

[Dave]

It was almost like one or two.

[Zena]

Poke bowls fueled by spite.

[Dave]

And then I want to look at the numbers. What's happened with Luca since Nico got fired? I. I want to look like, has there been a drop off? It has been for the Lakers, but it was enough to get fired.

[Baron]

What's a drop off for Luca?

[Dave]

Yeah, I know he went from 40 to like 33 a game.

[Baron]

30, right.

[Zena]

I think it's. I think it's really hard to assess the Lakers right now to your point, about like the LeBron vacuum, you know what I mean? That's happening right now. They can't build out an actual roster that makes sense around Luca. Even the Reeves situation. I think they eventually will have to make a decision there because he's going to want a max deal and does is that guy, the guy that makes sense next to Luca for five, six years.

[Dave]

They have to ask.

[Zena]

Answer that question for themselves. But regardless, they have the opportunity to ask that question because they have Luka Doncic. Right. And I, above everything else, you know, even past the results in 10 years, hopefully when the NBA Daily is still kicking, if we are able to still talk about this Luca Donches trade. Yeah, I, I don't think that the results will matter as much as the actual trade itself in that moment, in that time. And Understanding the context. Let's say Luca never wins a championship with the Lakers and let's say the Mavs, same thing. Don't win a championship. I think on its face value, this was an absolutely ridiculous trade. And it will be a ridiculous trade 10 years from now, you know, but.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah, I still think the Paul George trade is like, it still ranks above this one. Just.

[Zena]

Well, because of the results. Right?

[Dave]

Well, the results. It was a heist.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

You know, the Paul George trade is like the Herschel Walker trade.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

In football. You know, it, it created the, the Dallas Cowboys dynasty when they traded him to the Minnesota Vikings. They got all those picks, became Troy Aikman and Emmett Smith and the offensive lineman. And that's what Paul George, the Paul George trade was. I, that's a great point. The Luca trade is just so. It's an absurd trade.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. It's shocking. It's, it's more shocking than PG because the Thunder just lost around one like all these things that happened. But this was, it was not.

[Dave]

Paul George gets traded.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Paul George's get traded in the NBA.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Dave]

Luca Doncic is, Don't.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Top 15 guys get traded.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I deal with that with Jokic. Jokic is, you know, you start stuttering there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. All right. Thank you guys for tuning in all year, all 20, 25.

[Zena]

See you guys next year.

[Dave]

Been a good year for us.

[Zena]

Yeah.

[Dave]

And yeah, I, I want to say thank you to everybody who's hanging out on YouTube.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Everybody that listens to the pod. Yeah, it's been a really fun year. I think, you know, this push to the playoffs coming up is going to be, it could be the last year where we don't feel like Victor WomenYama owns the NBA.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Could be.

[Dave]

That's kind of exciting. What do you think, Andrew?

[Zena]

I love this.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This is.

[Zena]

Guys, I'm just letting you know 2026, these two will have an on screen fight.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, listen, I, I, I wake up in here from my oldest son. God, they are such spurs glazers. Oh my gosh. Wow. He's like these guys glaze the spurs like they've never done anything wrong. He's like they just lost to Utah and these guys glazed the spurs as if no one has ever accomplished.

[Zena]

I'm a staunch Thunder believer. Tell you, tell yourself.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Listen, you're on his list right now.

[Dave]

Games in a row. I'm gonna look at that three point percentage and I'm gonna tell you it's a make or miss league. That's how it works. Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, if you believe that we have a lot. We have some. We have a lot of talking to do. Okay.

[Zena]

All right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hope everybody's doing awesome. Enjoy New Year's Eve. We will not have another podcast the rest of this week. So we gave you an hour and 11 plus minutes here. No Slam and Jam this week. We will be back with Slam and Jam next week. We'll be back to kind of the normal schedule. So enjoy some time off. Enjoy. Enjoy the basketball that's still going on. Still got good games going on. But we'll be back to recap all of that on Sunday night. So I hope everybody's doing well. We'll talk to you guys again Monday morning.

[Baron]

Bye, guys.

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