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- [00:00]
Intuit QuickBooks
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- [00:43]
BetMGM
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [01:20]
BetMGM Terms
See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny 467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 In Puerto Rico, first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.
- [01:44]
BetMGM
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- [01:58]
Calgary Folk Music Festival
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- [02:00]
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Calgary Folk Music Festival
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- [02:36]
Zena Cada
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for July 2, 2025. I'm Zena Cada here with Dave DeFore. And coming up, we gotta talk about the Bucs because they've been bus getting the tallest target on the free agent market. And then Kelly Eco is here to break down the Houston Rockets trying to climb out of second seed. Good morning, Dave.
- [03:02]
Dave DeFore
Good morning.
- [03:04]
Zena Cada
Busy day, busy day. And I love being in this host seat, allowing you to cook, letting us know what's happening in free agency, making it make sense of it all. Because let me tell you, what the Indiana Pacers did this morning confused me. But I understand. Right, Exactly. And what I'm talking about is, of course Indiana Pacers aren't running it back with their crew, folks. Miles Turner is headed to the Bucs, and as a result, Dame Lillard is getting a wave and stretch. All right, Dave, you got to break it down to me. What, how is this happening? And the wave and stretch. I feel like I've not heard this before.
- [03:43]
Dave DeFore
Okay, so the stretch and wave provision of the CBA allows teams to take a contract and stretch it over multiple years. And basically it's double the length that's left on the deal, plus one. So Damian Lillard, he had two years left on his deal, 113 million. So you double it, add five, then divide by five, or, excuse me, you double it plus one, get to five into 113. So 22 and a half million dollars per year for five years is what Damian Lillard is going to cost the Milwaukee Bucks. So basically, like the fifth starter on a, on a team, that's how much it's going to cost them to have Damian Lillard not pay for play for them so that they could give Miles Turner a four year, $107 million deal. So if you look at it in aggregate, essentially they're paying Miles Turner $50 million a year. But something about having 22 and a half million dollars of dead money and trying to compete makes it seem pretty difficult, in my opinion. That being said, what else were they going to do? Xena? You know, I've seen a lot of people hand wringing like, oh, man, is Miles Turner worth all this? I think Miles Turner is a pretty good player. And we can, we can go back and relitigate the way he looked in the Finals and not making shots. I don't think that really expressed how important he was to what the Pacers did in their playoff run, but especially in that Finals. And, and he does fit next to, to Giannis pretty well. I mean, they're going to have a pretty good defense, good rim protector. He can stretch the floor, which is what you have to have with Giannis so that Giannis can have those driving lanes. The thing is, like, you worry about the guard, play for them. You know, right now they don't have anybody to handle the ball. That's where I start thinking, you know, like, when I'm looking at this team. But they have Giannis Antono. They still have a pretty decent amount of, of role players. They added some guys. They brought back Gary Trent, Torian Prince is, is back in the fold. Who else? Who else did they get? Am I forgetting someone there?
- [05:41]
Zena Cada
No, you're good. They got Jericho, they got Gary Harris. They brought back Gary Harris and they also brought back Bobby Portis. So literally all I can think of is as Giannis is barreling down the lane, sometimes he gets tied up and he has to turn around and throw it back into traffic. Who is going to be there for a perfect trail shot at the top of the key? Miles Turner?
- [06:02]
Dave DeFore
Well, here's the problem with that. Like, they gotta do a little bit more, right? Like they're, hopefully they're not done yet. I mean, I think that this is a pretty. It's a good move, right? Like, if you're worried you're gonna lose Giannis, you gotta go get good players. And Dane wasn't gonna play. Personally, I feel like they probably could have found a better solution than, than the wave and Stretch. But you, you know, free agency, like, you're under the clock. They're trying to sign the guy. You can only, you know, you can only really wait so long. And so, you know, fortune favors the bold. Maybe. We'll see. You know, this is, it is the biggest wave and stretch in NBA history. Okay, so for whatever. Yeah, for whatever that tells you, it is the, the largest in NBA history. So, I don't know. I mean, I just. My thing is, what were the alternatives at this point? You look at the east and you maybe you've sold Giannis on the idea of, hey, stay here, let's take a shot at this. I think they're. They improved Miles Turner should be a schematic upgrade for them over Brooke Lopez, who, you know, at this point is probably a backup, like he's going to be for the Clippers. You know, he's lost a few steps, and they just. They have to figure out who's going to dribble the ball for them. That's not Giannis. They got to figure out the wing. Like, this is the same problem that they've kind of had. But at least they, you know, the defense isn't going to be as bad as it was. I mean, it was absolute turnstile previously. Obviously, with Dame at the point of attack, I think Miles Turner may be, at this point, a little bit better than Brook Lopez protecting a rim. We'll see. I mean, again, it's. I'm splitting hairs here. Part of this is last season, that Bucks defense was so bad that I could just have allowed the stink to kind of get onto Brook Lopez. For me, I, you know, I hate to do that, but he did look like he had lost a step. So defensively, I think it's an upgrade. Hopefully, offensively it is for them, but I just need to figure out who's going to dribble the ball for him. Zena.
- [07:59]
Zena Cada
Yeah.
- [07:59]
Dave DeFore
Not a lot of guards. Maybe they're going to sign Cole Anthony. I don't know.
- [08:03]
Zena Cada
Perhaps, to be fair, for Brook Lopez, you know, he had to cover a lot of steps because there was a lot of people coming to the brim untouched. And so there was a lot of coverage that he had to have. But you're right, I'm looking at Kevin Porter Jr. You know, Gary Harris, Gary Trent Jr. Not enough steady ball handling, not enough. Also creation, I would say, even though, you know, Kevin Porter Jr. I can see him being a creator, but I don't. I don't know if I would trust him to be the number one person.
- [08:36]
Dave DeFore
I've never seen it on the court. I've never seen anything that looked like number one creator or number two creator on a basketball court out of that guy.
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Zena Cada
Okay, okay.
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Dave DeFore
No.
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Intuit QuickBooks
All right.
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Zena Cada
No, fair, fair, fair, fair. Okay. Bucks definitely have been to work, but they still have some moves to go because again, ball handler and then also someone off ball creating. Still a little bit thirsty for that. But Miles Turner, huge sign for the Bucks, especially with Brook Lopez departing to the Clippers.
- [09:06]
Dave DeFore
The other thing they were able to. They were able to. They did by. By doing the stretch and wave. They still kept that future first that they're allowed to trade. So they still have an asset in the. In the, like, asset chest that they can move maybe to improve the team. You know, I had some thoughts previously that maybe they could have moved Dame if they had included that first and could have gotten some useful players, maybe some of these guys in that are playing for the Wizards this season that are on expiring deals. You could have worked something out there, but again, expedience and now they still have that first. So maybe that was part of their. They're thinking in this. I don't, I don't know. But it is, it is a little bit shocking that Dame got just straight up waving, stretched. I.
- [09:50]
Zena Cada
It's. It's a brutal business. And, you know, you're looking at the Boston Celtics, Indiana Pacers, and obviously the Milwaukee Bucks dealing with primary ball handlers, creators, attention grabbers on your offense literally not available for the 2025, 2025, 26 season. So you have to make some dire moves. You see Boston kind of blowing things up. Indiana, of course, is going to stay loyal to the guy that got them so far and, you know, to the finals. But the Bucks fell short and the Bucs needed to make a move, especially considering you have Giannis Antentokounmpo one of the most valuable free agent pieces available to you. So it's tough and, you know, you hate to see it. I saw some players tweeting about, you know, loyalty and aspects of just, you know, how rough this business can be and brutal it can be. But unfortunately that's happened. But Dame does get his money. So there is, you know, the silver.
- [10:46]
Dave DeFore
Lining is $113 million.
- [10:48]
Zena Cada
Right? There you go. There you go. All right, well, let's quickly move over to Denver because they, they aren't done. Literally. On our last livestream, we were just talking about what or who can Denver put behind a Nikola Jokic when he needs a little bit of time off the court, right when he isn't putting up the crazy numbers who can come in and at hold down the fort. Well, Denver heard us. They're like, listen, we got him. Okay? Don't worry about that. And they go get Jonas Valachunas. Dave, what do you think about this to back up Jokic?
- [11:24]
Dave DeFore
I mean, even if you just look at it as a one for one Dario Sarich for Jonas Valentunas, it's an upgrade on that roster spot whether Jonas Valentunas can be a player in the playoffs. Who cares? You have Nicole Jokic. What you need is can you get a person who can go out there without throwing up on themselves and play eight minutes of basketball, grab a rebound or two, that's it. Jonas Valentinus might even allow them to give Jokic a night off here and there during the regular season because he, he can score and he can rebound. So, you know, for all of the warts that he's going to have defensively, he's not going to be a person that you sub in for Jokic at the end of games, which I actually frankly think is silly anyway because he is a good defender. But this is exactly the sort of guy that I think the Nuggets should have been looking for to play behind Jokic. He could look, there's a world in which maybe he can give him 15, 18 minutes a night and put up nine or 10 points off the bench. Imagine that Xena Jokic goes to the bench and it's not just a complete black hole going in there.
- [12:26]
Zena Cada
You right, right. I mean, I think what they wanted out of Dario Sarge is what they saw a little bit in, you know, in Golden State where Dario was able to hit that out that stretch three. But we weren't seeing that production out of Sarge as much in Denver. So, yes, someone that can put a little rim protection at, put some hard hitting screens on some guys and you know, Jonas is very good for that. But you're right, when you got Nikola Jokic, it's like this is just a breather. Okay. We're not expecting you, Jonas, to come in and change the chemistry of the game and become this All Star. Nope, just do what you need. And what I love about Jonas Valentunas is he's someone that I think absolutely understands the assignment. He's not going to come in and try to do the most. He is literally going to come in and do play his role. You saw it at Kings, you saw in Washington. This is who he is, this who he's been and so that's a good thing. They also added more shooting on the outside. Tim Hardaway Jr. Comes in over from Detroit. One year deal with Junior. So I'm, I'm just looking at Denver. They're continuing to be a little bit scary. Dave, what say you before we go to break?
- [13:36]
Dave DeFore
I mean, I, I like Tim Hardaway there. Again, it's more shooting. This will be some of the more open shots he's maybe ever seen in his career. And his role is going to be much different than he's had it, you know, in Detroit. He's not going to be able asked ever to shoot off the dribble, but he can dribble a little bit. And again, this is just, it's another guy who can do like two dribbles and make a decision who can take a shot on the catch and he can actually come off a screen and take a shot here too. So you know, he's probably like their eighth or ninth guy. But that's great. You know, that's fantastic. Them for look at what they didn't have last year. They went out and immediately, I mean we're, we're having this conversation on July 1st. So they're immediately before we're even at the 4th of July, they've addressed all this depth and the biggest one to me, look, yeah, Cam Johnson. That's a great move. They also saved money and they get Bruce Brown's part of that. But I do think that this Jonas Valentunas move winds up being pretty big for them because at some point if, look, if they want to win another title, they are going to have to figure out a way to make it so that Jokic can be as healthy and as, as fit and as ready to play in the fourth quarters of game Sevens in the playoffs as they possibly can. And last year definitely was not.
- [14:50]
Zena Cada
And you know what you're going to need for that throughout the regular season? Stress management. Because all the teams in the west are causing everyone some stress. And on the other side of this break, we're going to talk about one of those teams down in Texas with Caleco. Don't go anywhere.
- [15:08]
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- [16:17]
BetMGM
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season we'll be using BETMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollars first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [16:53]
BetMGM Terms
See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.
- [17:18]
BetMGM
Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.
- [17:31]
Calgary Folk Music Festival
The name of the Calgary Folk Music Festival isn't totally accurate with headliners including Bad Bad Not Good, Michael Kiwanuka, Cake, Sierra Farrell, los lobos and 60 more awesome acts. A better name might be the Calgary Alt, Rock, Hip Hop, Indie, Electro, Soul, R and B, Bluegrass, Art, Pop, Country, Blues and Folk Music Festival. But that's a mouthful. So let's just call it the Calgary More Than folk Music Festival. July 24 to 27 tickets@calgaryfolkfest.com.
- [18:14]
Zena Cada
And now we've got Kelly Eco joining us to that covers the Houston Rockets. And if you've been keeping up with the amount of names under Houston Rockets on any of the free agency trackers, you know that they have more names than almost anyone else. All the moves that they've been making, Kelly, I know they've been keeping you busy. First, let's talk about how this Kevin Durant trade came together. We know that one of the things that Houston Rockets were looking to do this season coming up was to contend number two last year wasn't enough. Especially after they wait, they got out of the playoffs. So how did KD come to fruition down in Texas?
- [18:54]
Kelly Eco
I think you know the simple answer Is it was a leverage play like the Rockets knew going back to a year prior after they, you know, did that trade with with Brooklyn to acquire Phoenix's picks, that it might have been foreshadowing. But everything from their intel said that the Suns were going to employ employed at one, at one point or the other. And when that happened, they were going to be in a place to strike. Now. Now, originally, you know, Devin Booker was, you know, the dream target or, you know, a couple years back. But, you know, as. As it played out in terms of Phoenix trying to hold on to Devin and shop Kevin, you know, he was still seen as a guy that has value around the league. 36 years old, hall of Famer, you know, still a 50, 40, 90 guy. And the more the Rockets, you know, did their own research in terms of evaluating what they had and what they needed. You know, Kevin Durant became the answer in terms of a plug and play guy that could solve a lot of issues just by him being on the roster. So, you know, they try to keep out guys like Tari and Jabari out of the deal. Guys like Reed Shepard, the Suns expressed interest in, you know, Jalen Green. They wanted a win now guy and like a Dylan Brooks, they try to get, you know, more draft capital as it was. But ultimately, you know, the Suns didn't have a lot of leverage to play with. So, you know, the more teams play chicken in terms of trying to see who would blink first, you kind of saw them trying to get deals from Miami, Santon, like after and the Wolves. Once that didn't play out, it was pretty clear that you have to get something back for Kevin. So the Rockets were in a place to strike and there you have it.
- [20:37]
Dave DeFore
Yeah, KD controlling that situation helped the Rockets quite a bit. It keeps it for sure. The asset chest pretty full still with all these guys, they didn't actually consolidate.
- [20:47]
Zena Cada
Kelly.
- [20:47]
Dave DeFore
Look, man, if a couple months ago I would have told you that the Rockets made a big trade and got Kevin Durant and I told you the trade was the number 10 pick, Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, and not only did they get Kevin Durant, they also got Dorian Finney Smith, would you. Would that have sound sounded like a good trade, like a fair trade at the time, or do you feel like that would have been completely a steal for Houston like six months ago?
- [21:15]
Kelly Eco
So if I'll be honest, prior to day one of free agency, I personally thought that they might have given up a little too much. But once, you know, the frequency played out and they were able to make quick work of getting Dorian, you know, getting Clint, resigning their guys. You know, it's hard to say that this team didn't get better in terms of if you're looking at a win now perspective, championship mindset and trying to extend that contention window by a few years. So yeah, I think the Rockets did some great business in terms of how they were able to structure everything. Obviously, you know, the KD extension still remains to be seen in terms of what that actually looks like.
- [21:58]
Dave DeFore
Right.
- [21:59]
Kelly Eco
But as far as everything else, like, it's kind of like you'd be hard pressed to say that they're not winning the off season by a landslider right now.
- [22:08]
Zena Cada
Yeah, it feels as if the priority was to win now in order to do that. Size was huge. You think about just the flexibility that adding a Kevin Durant, that wingspan, that height, and then on top of a Dorian, Finney Smith with the height and the size that he brings on the wing. And now you have a third solid lob threat as your, you know, your third big off the bench in Clint Capella. It feels like size was really important, but also how much was the balance between youth and veteranship? Because you're also seeing that the guys that they brought in are on the older side, on the more seasoned side and they're balancing these players alongside an Ahmed Thompson and Jabari Smith Jr. Darius. And like this, that seemed to be something that Ime Udoka liked as well.
- [22:55]
Kelly Eco
So you know, we've seen this two timeline approach before around the NBA, specifically Golden State. It didn't work out. But you know, I think context matters. I think, I think context matters. Like if you're talking about players like Moses Moody, Jonathan Kaminga, James Wiseman, you know, that's pretty different than Amen Thompson like Reed Shepherd. So yeah, the Rockets were already, those young guys had already progressed enough to where they were the two seat. Exactly. So even if, even if you were to project what their future development looks like, pairing that with, you know, the other timeline of the kds, the Van Vliets, the Dorian, Vinnie Smiths, that, that age, the 30 plus group, it's pretty, it looks like a pretty easy thing to do. Like because those young guys are still contributing to win now mentality.
- [23:48]
Dave DeFore
So you actually upgraded on those guys, right? Like Jalen Green, like they, Kevin Durant is today better than Jalen Green. Direct upgrade in your primary score. Like KD is going to walk into 25 points a night very easily for them. Super efficient, better than Dylan Brooks. Same position, like literally 3, 4. You could say Maybe that there's a drop off because Dylan Brooks brings so much of that, that energy, that fire, the attitude and the fire.
- [24:16]
Kelly Eco
Less technical fouls, though.
- [24:18]
Dave DeFore
Yeah. Fewer texts. And also they have that internally. Anyway, like, they've got plenty of that on the roster.
- [24:25]
Kelly Eco
Crazy.
- [24:25]
Dave DeFore
Their head coach is kind of fiery. Right? Like, I mean, I, I honestly look at this, Kelly, and this is actually like a little bit. In a lot of ways, it is a marriage of Kevin Durant and Ime Odoka's style of basketball on the offensive end that I think, really fascinating part. We talked about this all year long, guys. What do. What do the Rockets offense look like? Go beat that guy. And now they got a guy that beats everybody. And when they need a bucket down the stretch, it's not going to be the Shingon at the elbow thing. You know, hoping he can get that floater to drop. This could be Kevin Durant dropping a, a 27 footer in somebody's eye. I think that that, like, is the thing, the overwhelming thing for me, for the Houston Rockets is that like, they were the two seed. They got better. And I don't know how many, how.
- [25:13]
BetMGM
Many two seeds do that.
- [25:14]
Dave DeFore
I mean, I guess we saw the Rock.
- [25:16]
Kelly Eco
It's rare.
- [25:16]
Dave DeFore
Thunder do that last year as a 1 seed, but this is in that, in that same mold. Hey, double down on what we know we're good at and improve.
- [25:25]
Kelly Eco
Yeah.
- [25:26]
Zena Cada
In my opinion, though. Oh, real quickly, I just want to put on record, I do not think that Dorian Finney Smith is better than Dylan Brooks. I don't think that his offense and his production was on the level of Dylan Brooks. The stats back that up. So I'm just going to go on record and just say that that's how I feel.
- [25:44]
Dave DeFore
That's fine. That's fine. He wasn't. I. I honestly think that he did underperform for the Lakers. And we don't need to talk about what he was doing before that because Brooklyn's not a basketball team.
- [25:54]
Zena Cada
Yeah.
- [25:54]
Dave DeFore
I think it's personal. I personally feel like it's an upgrade.
- [25:57]
Zena Cada
Okay. All right. Well, what are we going to say?
- [25:59]
Dave DeFore
I think we're going to find out. I think.
- [26:01]
Kelly Eco
Yeah, I was just going to talk about, you know, going back to what you said.
- [26:05]
Dave DeFore
Yeah.
- [26:06]
Kelly Eco
About what Houston's offense was. And I think, you know, Dave, you know, this about like, like a coaching retreat. Like they, they have that every year where they, they get together and they look at a bunch of film from all over the world and they try to extract what works and what Doesn't. And, you know, this summer, even before the KD stuff, they wanted to get better at, you know, becoming a better spacing team. They wanted to become a better isolation team, just being more efficient in how they attacked zone because, you know, they really struggled.
- [26:36]
Dave DeFore
Got crushed by zone.
- [26:37]
Kelly Eco
Yeah, they really struggled when teams had to go zone and they were forced to look for mismatches in the, in the gaps in the zone. And the personnel wasn't, you know, always right. So having KD in that spot really alleviates a lot of those issues just by him being there. And it's so easy to say, like, because you have a future hall of Famer you can just plug and play, but sometimes it really is that simple. Like, he's been an offensive engine everywhere he's ever gone. And like the. The only thing is, how do you build around that? How do you adapt to him as opposed to him adapting to you? Because this is a Rockets team that was 22nd and a half court points per 100 plays. They weren't a good, it wasn't a good product offensively. Like, they relied too much on transition, too much on second chance opportunities. And it's like there's only so many offensive rebounds you can get if A, you're not a good spacing team, B, you're not executing properly. So, you know, having Kevin Durant is going to make them 100 times better.
- [27:33]
Dave DeFore
Can they, can they stay afloat when he's, when he's missing time? I mean, like, let's, let's just be realistic.
- [27:38]
Kelly Eco
That's the big question. And, and I think that that depends on really what Amen Thompson does this summer in terms of his self creation. Obviously he's so good at getting to the rack and drawing pressure and having that downhill gravity, but can he continue to develop that jumper? Can Alpert Shingoon continue to enforce his dominance in the paint? We saw that in the Warrior series where he kind of struggled, you know, against small defenders. So it's going to be up to those guys because now if KD was to miss time, there is no Jalen Green to be that guy to go to or look for a quick offense. And Fred, we saw that he already took on too much of a load last season in terms of the workload, and that's why he got hurt and everything. His numbers went down. So it's going to be up to a lot more on the X's and O's. If KD was to miss time to be able to continue to create efficient looks in the half court.
- [28:30]
Zena Cada
I think the only thing that is a blessing and a curse when you have someone like a KD and then you also add someone like Dorian, Finney Smith and a Clint Capella. Players that you know exactly how they slot and into an offense. This is great, but it does shift other people's roles. As you just mentioned. Amen. Thompson is going to have to figure out, you know, how much creation versus distribution. When he was in the shooting guard position versus the small forward, the Houston Rockets were like plus 55 out on the floor. So he can play that shooting guard position, but when he's not in the shooting guard position, let's say Fred Van Vliet is in foul trouble, which he knows you know, he's capable of doing, he moves over to more of a point position. You know, what's the depth that that shooting guard position looking like? There's so many different rotations and lineups that IME Yodoka can play with. And that is what almost worries me, like how many you can have a lineup out there with five wings if Jabari Smith Jr. Plays the five, right. Like, I'm very curious of, you know, what is it? How long do you think it's going to take this team to kind of get the chemistry of what they like and how they like to play and how they want to look out? And then the last thing I also want to ask is where does Tari Eason fit into this, especially knowing that his contract extension is kind of hanging up until October.
- [29:56]
Kelly Eco
So, you know, to the first question, I do think that because they've already been indoctrinated for two years under ime, I think the adaptation process of a Kevin Durant, of a Dorian, Finney, Smith, because these guys are professionals, you might see a little bit of growing pains because, you know, players are used to certain things, of use to certain actions being in certain spots. But once people like Katie's cachet coming to town, you have to just get with it. You have to figure it out, get on the way down like this. There's a different, it's a different like aura that's in the building. So you are forced to adapt like immediately. And, and a lot of what these young guys went through early on in their careers was getting those bad habits out of their system. And IME's done a good job of doing that. Now it's about how do you turn that playoff experience? How do you extrapolate that over an 82 game season? Because if you think about it, this is a team that can win 58, 60 games if everything goes. If everything goes to plan. So it is going to take, you know, some Williams on both sides to adapt and to maybe let go of certain things. But I think, think if there's a team collective in the greater good and you can see the greener passes at the other side, it's pretty easy plan to get behind and, and Tatari. Oh, sorry.
- [31:17]
Dave DeFore
Go ahead. Sorry, man.
- [31:18]
Kelly Eco
I do think that he's still seen as that impact guy off the bench, maybe the sixth, seventh guy, just because of the energy he brings. I think the Rockets always needed that energy because he's active in the passing lanes. He's a tenacious point of attack defender. The shooting has always been kind of up and down, but I do think that because of his pure defensive skill set, that's kind of hard to replicate. And when you combine that with the man, Thompson, Nowadorian, you still have Jabari Fred. There's a lot of creation, there's a lot of on ball aggression. And I think IME can get really creative with his lineups and I think that's, that's one of the benefits of having a deep roster. Everyone, everyone might not always be pleased with the minutes, but I think that's. That having that level of production is going to be the biggest thing.
- [32:01]
Dave DeFore
You know, your, your comment about a different aura with KD got me thinking about that Raptors team that traded for Kawhi Leonard. And I know that this plan is to be a little bit longer. You know, Fred Van Vliet was on that team, right? Like, I wonder. This is kind of an interesting situation. There hadn't been a lot of teams like that that were pretty good and then added a Hall of Fame level talent like this. So that one. One for one in, in my recollection that that's pretty good track record. So we'll see what happens.
- [32:31]
Kelly Eco
Yeah.
- [32:32]
Dave DeFore
Yeah.
- [32:33]
Zena Cada
And last but not least, Kelly, any. Any insight on what might be happening with Cam Whitmore?
- [32:41]
Kelly Eco
Well, that's, you know, the Whitmore thing, I think is such a tricky situation because when you look at it, this is a guy that the Rockets want to keep. He is a highly talented offensive guy. There's a reason why you've seen the flashes of what he can be, you know, when everything clicks. The problem is sometimes it hasn't always clicked. And you know, when you're a young player that's already buried deep in the rotation and then your team goes out and adds three more guys to that rotation, it's cut and they bring back all the other free agents. It's kind of hard to see a clear path to playing time. So, yeah, you know, the Rockets have always been in the business going back to the days of Peter Tucker and James Harden. If you're unhappy or if you're frustrated, they'll work with you to find a solution. But that doesn't mean that they're going to take a bad deal because he still, he still has a lot of value, I think at that age, on 20 years old. So I do think that, you know, they'll work with him to find a solution, you know, if it's somewhere else. But if it doesn't, this is still a guy that can help. But it goes back to the whole thing about the being happy and contributing and you know your spot. Because if you're the 11th, 12th guy in the rotation at that age, you want to be playing, you want to be developing because you want that first contract. So it's like it's, it's a really tricky situation to be in for him.
- [34:01]
Dave DeFore
A lot of bad teams Cam Whitmore can put up 25 a game for.
- [34:04]
Zena Cada
You know, there's a lot of the cams. It's something about the cams around the league that can absolutely contribute to that. It feels like OKC is passing their treasure trove of talent, the embarrassment of riches problem, over to Houston now. Kelly Eco, thank you so much for joining us. Go read his stuff over at the Athletic. Also check out his video essay on how Kevin Durant can fit with the Houston Rockets. Really love that piece. Appreciate you putting that together. Well, on behalf of Kelly and Dave DeFore, I'm Zena Kada. Thanking you guys for tuning in. Make sure you like, subscribe wherever you are listening to this pod and yeah, enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks for joining us.
- [35:09]
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