Cade & Paolo duel + Rockets survive

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily — April 30, 2026

Episode Title: Cade & Paolo Duel + Rockets Survive
Main Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esfandiar "Es" Baraheni, Hunter Patterson
Main Theme: NBA Playoff Thrillers – Pistons force Game 7 after a historic duel, Rockets survive to push Lakers, and the Cavs edge Raptors in a comeback.

---

Episode Overview

This episode delivers a tightly packed recap and breakdown of an electrifying night in the NBA playoffs. The hosts dive into three primary storylines:

• The Pistons and Magic exchanging blows in a Cade Cunningham vs. Paolo Banchero duel, with Detroit forcing Game 7;
• The Houston Rockets staving off the Lakers behind a pivotal win that pushes their series to a crucial Game 6;
• The Cleveland Cavaliers storming back to take a 3-2 series lead over the Toronto Raptors in a thriller.
  They close out by previewing upcoming Game 6s around the league, debating how much playoff unpredictability fans should root for.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

---

1. Rockets Outlast Lakers to Stay Alive

Segment Begins: 02:54

• Game Recap: Rockets beat the Lakers 99-93 to keep their postseason hopes alive, denying the Lakers a gentleman’s sweep.
• Austin Reaves’ Struggles:
  • “This was not the greatest effort from Austin Reaves. Four of 16 from the field...he ended up with 22 points, but, like, the shot was just not falling.” (Esperahenny, 03:42)
  • Multiple clutch misses by Reaves in the fourth quarter as he returns from injury.
• Controversial Call – Tari Eason Charge Overturned:
  • Dave on the key officiating moment:
    • “Tari Eason just absolutely bulldozes Austin Reeves. It is an offensive foul in any other basketball league in the world, except for the NBA.” (Dave DuFour, 04:05)
  • Lament over NBA stars’ leeway with offensive fouls, and how this pivotal call helped Houston.
• Three-Point Shooting Variance:
  • Rockets outshoot Lakers, 14-of-40 from 3 vs. Lakers’ 7-of-27.
    • “That’s the part that I was going to say...how about the Lakers making their shots?” (Esperahenny, 05:37)
  • Criticism of Lakers’ low 3-point volume and aggressive play.
• Luke Kennard’s Disappearing Act:
  • His inconsistency, from hot streaks to invisibility:
    • “He’ll have moments where he’ll take like 10 threes in a game and then some where he’s completely invisible.” (Esperahenny, 06:18)
• Reed Sheppard’s Clutch Two-Way Play:
  • “That was the best two-way sequence I’ve seen Reed Sheppard play in the series...” (Esperahenny, 07:29)
• Series Outlook:
  • Do the Rockets have enough left to push it to 7? Es expects them to tie the series before falling to the Lakers, especially if LeBron returns.
    • “I think they will push it to seven. But the Lakers will win in game seven.” (Esperahenny, 08:39)

---

2. Cavs Roar Back, Take 3-2 over Raptors

Segment Begins: 09:10

• Game Recap: Cavs win 125-120, overcoming a Raptors third-quarter lead; Toronto’s offense falls apart in crunch time.
• Key Injuries for Raptors:
  • Brandon Ingram leaves after 11 minutes (heel injury). Scotty Barnes hampered by a thigh knock.
    • “He was not the same player in the second half...He actually talked about it post game too, where he’s like, my effectiveness the way I was supposed to play with my pace.” (Esperahenny, 09:58)
• Donovan Mitchell, Harden, Mobley, & Schroder Shine:
  • “Donovan Mitchell didn’t throw the ball away in this game. James Harden hit some threes. I mean, Evan Mobley I thought was really the difference, honestly.” (Dave DuFour, 10:51)
  • “Dennis Schroeder was the guy he cooked. Came off the bench with 19. Especially in the fourth.” (Esperahenny, 11:11)
• Scotty Barnes’ Playoff Ceiling Debated:
  • Dave admits he misjudged Barnes’ star upside:
    • “I thought maybe this guy is a high quality number three guy on your team...I think he’s at least second best player on a good team and could potentially be a one guy, like a number one guy.” (Dave DuFour, 11:53)
  • Both agree more shooting and a true second offensive star needed in Toronto.
• Previewing the Next Games & Playoff Chaos:
  • Es predicts none of the coming night’s Game 6s (Knicks/Hawks, Celtics/Sixers, Nuggets/Wolves) will reach Game 7:
    • “I think all of them are over. I think we are seeing three straight wins.” (Es, 14:05)
  • Quickfire analysis of Minnesota/Denver matchup, with role player performance and variance as X-factors.

---

3. Cade Cunningham & Paolo Banchero’s Duel – Pistons Force Game 7

Segment Begins: 18:31

• Game Recap: Detroit wins 116-109; both Cade and Paolo erupt for 45 each—a Pistons playoff scoring record.
• Reaction to Scoring Outburst:
  • “45 points is a Detroit Pistons playoff single game record. That seems shockingly low.” (Dave DuFour, 19:11)
• Paolo’s Adaptation & Clutch Shooting:
  • “Paolo’s not the best three point shooter...he was 6 for 11 tonight. He was getting shots off over two, sometimes three people.” (Hunter Patterson, 21:32)
• Defense Counter-Moves:
  • “Both of these teams rev it up defensively...Cade in that fourth quarter, the clutch mid-range shot after the three point shot is falling for him, I think is...reading the defense, understanding what’s coming to him and then kind of going to the counter.” (Esperahenny, 21:44)
• What Pistons Need for Game 7:
  • Hunter: “I think there’s still an opportunity to just clean up turnovers...they still had 17. They allowed 22 points off turnovers. They missed seven free throws. They allowed eight offensive rebounds.” (22:18)
• Second-Best Piston?
  • “I’m gonna say Assar Thompson...15 rebounds, five steals. He alters a game without scoring in a way that I don’t know if I can say I’ve seen anyone else do it.” (Hunter, 22:59)
• Jalen Duren’s Series Struggles:
  • Issues unlocking him: “It’s a combination of him getting more looks...it’s obvious that the Magic are packing the pain on him.” (Hunter, 24:09, 26:20)
  • Suggestion: try spacing lineups without Assar, or with more shooters.
• Big Picture for Detroit:
  • If they lose, does it sting given their 60-win season?
    • “It would be a disappointment, but I think there are things in this series that feel somewhat necessary for a team who is as young as the Pistons to go through to get to where they want to be.” (Hunter, 29:42)
• Orlando’s Underrated Form:
  • “If you had been in a coma all season and you woke up and it was Orlando, Detroit, you would assume that Orlando had maybe been the 1 seed and Detroit had been the 8 seed.” (Hunter paraphrased by Dave, 30:41)
• How to Win Game 6:
  • “You limit turnovers...limit second chance points...and you don’t overthink the moment.” (Hunter, 32:00)
  • Hosts see the series going to seven games.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Tari Eason just absolutely bulldozes Austin Reeves. It is an offensive foul in any other basketball league in the world, except for the NBA.” — Dave DuFour (04:05)
• “That was the best two-way sequence I’ve seen Reed Sheppard play in the series.” — Esfandiar Baraheni (07:29)
• “I think he’s at least second best player on a good team and could potentially be a one guy, like a number one guy.” — Dave on Scotty Barnes (11:53)
• “45 points is a Detroit Pistons playoff single game record. That seems shockingly low.” — Dave (19:11)
• “He alters a game without scoring in a way that I don’t know if I can say I’ve seen anyone else do it.” — Hunter on Assar Thompson (23:09)
• “I think all of them are over. I think we are seeing three straight wins.” — Es predicting no Game 7s in next set (14:05)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rockets-Lakers Recap: 02:54 – 09:00
• Cavs-Raptors Analysis: 09:10 – 15:22
• Playoff Chaos & Game 6 Preview: 15:22 – 18:30
• Pistons-Magic Duel & Deep Dive: 18:31 – 33:38 - Cade vs. Paolo & scoring record: 19:05 - Defensive schemes / clutch plays: 21:44 - Second-best Piston debate: 22:59 - Duren’s usage/lineup fit: 24:09; 26:20 - Big-picture Pistons outlook: 29:42 - How Detroit can win Game 6: 32:00
• Show wrap-up: 33:57

---

Episode Tone and Vibe

Smart, conversational, and quick-witted, with a strong analytical bent. Hosts are candid and playful (making jabs about officiating or historical scoring marks), but also insightful, especially when discussing x’s and o’s or team-building outlooks. The trio maintains a brisk pace, keeping listeners engaged with rapid-fire takes and friendly debate.

---

Final Thoughts

If you missed the action, this episode is must-listen material: you’ll walk away with a clear sense of how these playoff series are unfolding, which pivotal moments might shape the outcomes, and what the major storylines are for each team—especially the historic Cade vs. Paolo duel and Houston’s tenacious survival. The analysis blends data, narrative, and lived-in playoff wisdom, giving both casual and hardcore fans plenty to chew on before the next batch of elimination games.

---

For in-depth written coverage, follow Hunter Patterson and the rest of The Athletic NBA team.

Transcript

[Ad Voice]

Right now, you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you swipe, scroll, and hopefully download the latest episode of the Athletic NBA Daily. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.

[Dave Dufour]

Self Directed Investing, Trading, Full service Wealth Management, Automated Investing, Financial planning, Thematic Investing, Retirement planning.

[Esperahenny]

Phew.

[Dave Dufour]

And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life, stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need all in one place so you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

[Ad Voice]

Men's Wearhouse helps you love the way you look. No matter if it's a formal occasion or a more casual thing. Job interview, tea time, high school reunion, wedding, courtside seats, or just a neighborhood party where you want people to say, man, he looks impressive. And if you're a man with something, anything on the books, Men's Wearhouse has the clothes, shoes and accessories that make you look and feel good. Their in store experts will help you find the right look while their on site tailors will ensure you've got the right fit. Men's Wearhouse love the way you look.

[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for April 30, 2026. I'm Dave Defora here with Esperahenne. Coming up, the Cavs move three games of two over the Raptors. The Rockets stay alive and Hunter Patterson's here to talk about the Pistons win and how they make it to game seven. Good morning, everybody. What is up? S disappointing night. If you're rooting for the second round to start, you're right.

[Esperahenny]

Bonjour, everybody. I'm switching it up. I got a recommendation for Bonjour. I don't know, man. I don't know. Give me a recommendation. I mean, let me know again.

[Dave Dufour]

We can workshop this. Everybody, you know, give, you know, do your thing. What do you guys. I mean, do you guys have a traditional saying in Canada or it's just good morning?

[Esperahenny]

Yeah. No, it's just hello, you know.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's all it is really, you know, Politely, though. Yeah. Which is. Which is always. Yeah. Hey, how's it going? All right, now we got that out of the way. Hey, man, this Rockets team.

[Esperahenny]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Infuriating sometimes. They beat the Lakers 99 to 93, ruining the Austin Reeves comeback. Or s. Did Austin Reeves ruin the Lakers chances of wrapping up the series? It feels a little bit like Austin Reeves zapped all the mojo out of Luke Canard and that's the difference in the game.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, I mean, look, Luke Canard had slowed down a little bit the last couple games anyways. Like, he wasn't the same. This looks like Steph Curry Luke Canard that we saw in the first two games for the Lakers. But I will say this was not the greatest effort from Austin Reeves. Four of 16 from the field. He went to the free throw line a bunch. Typical Austin Reeves style. He's great at drawing free throws. No, I say that as a skill.

[Dave Dufour]

I.

[Esperahenny]

Honestly, Lakers fans, I come in peace. I say that as a skill. He ended up with 22 points, but, like, the shot was just not falling. And even when the Lakers were trying to make their comeback in that fourth quarter, so many opportunities where it was Austin Reeves chance to tie Austin Reeves with three point shot, and just everything was short. It was very clear. It was a guy coming back from injury that didn't have his legs.

[Dave Dufour]

He played 34 minutes, by the way. He looked exhausted at the end of this game. And he was also involved in the game. That or the play that put the game away, which was that change that overturned call, the Tar Eason charge. That was changed to a block, which I. I just, you know, as a basketball person who's. I've coached, you know, a lot of places, I don't want to get into all that, but I've been in the game of basketball my whole life. These are infuriating calls to make because Tari Eason just absolutely bulldozes Austin Reeves. It is an offensive foul in any other basketball league in the world, except for the NBA. Because in the NBA, if you've got the ball in your hands, there are no rules. Alr Shangoon can throw a stiff arm. I mean, he. He literally plays.

[Esperahenny]

This is what big men deal with all the time, by the way.

[Dave Dufour]

It is. It is absurd. I mean, and that, to me, like, it. It was a pivotal play in a playoff game. And I mean, if I'm the Lakers, I would actually complain. I would send that into the league and I'd be like, what are we doing? Get Ben Taylor to cut a video on this over at thinking basketball because like, this is exactly the thing he was talking about. The offensive players can just, they can just play like a bowling ball and the defense doesn't have a chance. And listen, Austin Reeves flops all the time, especially on defense and he, he hit the floor hard on this. But that was an offensive foul. Should not have been overturned. But that being said, the Rockets, they did get the win. They go 14 to 40 from three. Well, the Lakers seven to 27.

[Esperahenny]

That's the part that I was going to say. I mean, like, look, for all of the calls and everything that we could talk about. How about the Lakers making their shots like.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

And also taking their shots.

[Dave Dufour]

How about take them? Yeah. Seven of 27. This is another game though, with the low volume from three and, and it's just you like, I understand the Rockets also don't shoot a ton of threes, but they shoot over 30 a game. You've got it like 30, 35 a game. Especially because it's not like you've got, you know, you don't have someone that you can like feed the ball to for easy looks inside. You don't have a good pick and roll game where you're getting these lobs. Like the offense is actually coming kind of hard for them, so they need that higher variance.

[Esperahenny]

This is where the inconsistency from Luke Canard pops out, right. Like, this is actually something we've talked about with Luke Canard of his career where he'll took four shots, right. He'll have moments where he'll take like 10 threes in a game and then some where he's completely invisible. And I know it's hard to put it all on that guy, but yeah, three point variance. A big part of it for the Lakers specifically is Luke Canard. The other aspect is like, I think with Austin Reeves now, now in the lineup, there are more holes to poke at defensively for the Lakers. And so I actually was listening to him, Alper and Shangun post game where they're like, we understand how to attack them now. You know, we've kind of seen them a few times. We know how to kind of poke at their sore spots defensively.

[Dave Dufour]

It's harder when it's Marcus Smart. Totally. Canard.

[Esperahenny]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, yeah. And they're throwing the double team at guys. I also say that without kd, you don't really know where the attack's going to come from at any given time on this team. Also, Reed shepherd had a, a, a series that, that was really crucial at the end of the game where he gets the biggest, the big bucket than the steel and the dunk. You know, that was pretty demoralizing in

[Esperahenny]

the last two minutes of the game. I mean, that was, I tweeted this out, but that was the best two way sequence I've seen Reed shepherd play in the series. Just because of the defensive side of the ball. He has very, very good hands defensively. Using that is what's going to let him play more for the Rockets. I'll ask you this, like, is this going seven?

[Dave Dufour]

Okay. This is the question, right? You know, when we were coming in, it was all, did the Lakers have enough, you know, could they buy time until Luca and Austin came back? And then they go up 30 and you just feel like the Rockets are toast. But it's, it's still a, I still think that the Rockets have more talent. I agree. This was never that the 3, 0 lead had nothing to do with the Rockets talent.

[Esperahenny]

It was disastrous because it was unexpected to us that it was a 3, 0 lead. Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. So, and I, I just, look, I, I, this was a bit of a dud, I think, for the Lakers. They now have to travel like LeBron.

[Esperahenny]

Straight duds. I'm not going to lie to you.

[Dave Dufour]

LeBron's got to travel, go back to Houston at some point. Someone's going to come back from 3, 0 down at some point. Yeah, it could be this time. I don't know.

[Esperahenny]

We might get two.

[Dave Dufour]

You think they're going to, you think they're going to push it to seven?

[Esperahenny]

I think they will push it to seven. But the Lakers will win in game seven. How do you feel about that, Luka?

[Dave Dufour]

I don't know.

[Esperahenny]

I don't think Luka will come back,

[Dave Dufour]

But I think LeBron's coming back.

[Esperahenny]

It seems like Luca might not even come back for the second round, but I think think LeBron will. If it's a game seven, I imagine LeBron James will deliver. It's just, I've seen it too many times to not believe in it, you know. So, yeah, that's where I think it'll go.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I think I'm with you. I think, I think it goes. Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

The Lakers, speaking of going seven, the Toronto.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, let's, let's move on. The Cavs pick up a win, 125 to 120.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

And s. The Raptors look like they had this thing.

[Esperahenny]

They absolutely did.

[Dave Dufour]

They were up 9 in the third quarter and it just, it fell apart for them. They're shooting. Absolutely. Just fell off a Cliff. And they couldn't keep up. The Cavs, obviously, that's their bread and butter is scoring, but still the raptors put up 120 points in what is. I mean, this is the best offensive performance that we've seen out of in the series. So, you know, there is a silver lining there. You know, it was a road game. Like we could, we can talk through it. But the truth is that the Raptors blew this in the fourth quarter in a game where they were just absolutely outclassing the Cavaliers out. Hustling the Cavaliers out physically. I mean, they were beating them in every single respect until that fourth quarter.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, I mean, honestly, the thing I look to is Brandon Ingram left this game after 11 minutes with a heel injury. And then in the second quarter, Scotty Barnes got hit with like some sort of Charlie Horse, took a knee to the quad and he just. He was not the same player in the second half. He actually talked about it post game too, where he's like, my effectiveness the way I was supposed to play with my pace. You saw in the first half, he was dictating the tempo. He had seven assists in the first 12 minutes of the game. Like these dump off passes to Jakob Hurdle and column Murray Boyles. He was pushing it in transition, finding shooters. Jacoby Walter and Jamal Shed had really good three point shooting games until that fourth quarter where everybody just missed all of their shots. I think it was legs, it was tired legs. It was combination of injuries. This team already is missing Emmanuel Quickley, their best shooter. So when you're trying to compete with this level of offense, it's just. It's tough, tough to do.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. For look for the Cavs, they. They just hit shots at the, at the exact right time. Donovan Mitchell didn't throw the ball away in this game. James Harden hit some threes. I mean, Evan Mobley I thought was really the difference, honestly. You know, three or three from three.

[Esperahenny]

Dennis Schroeder was the guy he cooked.

[Dave Dufour]

Came off the bench with 19. Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Especially in the fourth. He was the guy who was attacking at the point of attack. The Cavs. By the way, the Raptors are loading up on James Harden and Donovan Mitchell a lot. They've realized they need a third ball handler out there. So Schroeder is now that guy who's kind of facilitating on the fly for them. I wonder if that's something we see in game six. But I want to ask you a question because you text me midway through this game and you're like, I'm seeing the Scotty Barnes vision talk to you?

[Dave Dufour]

No, it's a question for you actually. Is that's what I want to ask.

[Esperahenny]

Well, no, I mean it's, it's always good.

[Dave Dufour]

I know you probably feel. That's fine. That's fine.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay. Okay, go ahead.

[Esperahenny]

What's your, what's your take? How do you feel about Scotty? The, the what you've seen in the playoffs from him?

[Dave Dufour]

I guess. Yeah. I'm finding myself, I'm changing my mind on Scotty Barnes. I thought maybe this guy is a high quality number three guy on your team. Right. Like, could he be your bam out of bio, you know, your third best player on a good team? Yeah, I, I think he's at least second best player on a good team and could potentially be a one guy, like a number one guy. The playmaking that we're seeing right now, I believe that if he had a more balanced offense like around, more spacing around him, you know, if it was Scotty and some shooters, you know, if you had a floor spacing big and you had, you know, a guard that he could, he could play with in a two man game. I don't know, man. I think, you know, there's a little bit of Giannis light there, especially when you consider how disruptive and chaotic his, his defense is and how they, he is. So he is so good at turning his own playmaking in on defense into offense.

[Esperahenny]

Absolutely right.

[Dave Dufour]

And that, that's such a key signifier for him. So again, I mean his ceiling might be second best player on a good team. Yeah, right. But like, but I, it, I feel, I feel he's a better player than, than maybe I was giving him credit for after watching him against the Caps.

[Esperahenny]

I mean, I mean honestly, he's been the best player in the series even after this game. To everybody from the Raptor side of things, it's sort of like reaffirming what they're building around identity wise. I completely agree with you. It's like hey, that you need shooters, you need ball handling, you need that secondary guy. And even you saw without Brandon Ingram in this game, they still need a second score. They still need that guy. RJ Barrett and Scotty Bards can do a lot, but they need another source of offense to go to.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, let's look ahead to tomorrow. We've got a bunch of, I mean this is a high powered game. Six night.

[Esperahenny]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Thursday or tonight? Excuse me, Thursday night. We've got Knicks, Hawks, we've got Celtics, Sixers and we've got Nuggets Wolves. Who's. Who's going to make it to game seven?

[Esperahenny]

I don't think any of them are making it to game seven.

[Dave Dufour]

Whoa.

[Esperahenny]

I think all of them are over. I think we are seeing three straight wins. The Knicks, the Celtics and the Nuggets all win or. Sorry. The Timberwolves all win. Timberwolves on Thursday.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay, look, the Knicks, I get the Celtics again. It makes sense. They had this awful shooting night.

[Hunter Patterson]

I.

[Dave Dufour]

Again, I. We know how they do this. They'll win by 20.

[Esperahenny]

Sure.

[Dave Dufour]

You think that the Wolves

[Esperahenny]

are going

[Dave Dufour]

to be able to.

[Esperahenny]

I keep coming back to this, man.

[Ad Voice]

You.

[Esperahenny]

First of all, it's in Minnesota, so you will get the role player performances. Okay. And even despite the fact that they are missing Edwards and Dante Divincenzo. Julius Randle, I'm asking for one game. That's. That's all they need. That's literally all they need from him is one game where he has 35 and five and you have a Nasrid performance where he knocks down a few threes. You get a great Rudy Gobert game and you move on to the second round. I think that's all it'll take. I also think Denver has the ability to win in this game, but the. The margin of error when you're coming down from. Coming back from down 31 is so thin that one good shooting night can end it all. And I just. I think that Minnesota has the ability to do that.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. One of those. One of those crazy high variance nights. Right. For the Wolves. And my thing is this. You know, you. You think about game five and watching Tyus Jones and Jonas Valentunas give good minutes against the Wolves just makes me not very confident. Yeah. About. About the Wolves and what they got

[Esperahenny]

going on are starting Mike Conley again and it's like Terence Shannon needs to have a good game.

[Dave Dufour]

I think there's a lot of Terrence. I think we need a Terrence Shannon night. It's got to be a Julius Randle game. And Jaden McDaniels and Rudy Gobert have to win the two man battle against Murray and Yankich.

[Esperahenny]

It's pretty crazy though. If you look at this playoffs. We might get the Rockets coming back from down three zero. The Nuggets coming back from down three one. The Pistons coming back from down three one. I'm not saying all of those things can happen, but just there is a possibility where all of those things happen.

[Dave Dufour]

There's a world because everything is right. Everything is. So this is the parody era, right? Matchup and parody and High variance, you know. And so I guess should we make

[Esperahenny]

them nine game series now instead?

[Dave Dufour]

No, just so we can be sure it should be five. Let's introduce more chaos into the first round again. I, I, you know, we would get more upsets and is that better? Game would be awesome to enjoy it.

[Esperahenny]

I enjoy that five games.

[Dave Dufour]

It would be fun. Anything closer to single elimination is way more fun. Guys, stick around. After the break, we got Hunter Patterson here to talk about the Pistons and how the heck they pushed this thing to seven.

[Ad Voice]

Drop by gnc. Where new happens first. And GNC cuts through the noise to find you what actually works. You'll find the best products from the latest launches, trends and innovations in wellness and performance, all hand picked by experts at gnc. Get a sneak peek at the newest formulas, flavors and brands coming soon to gnc. From trending ingredients to breakthrough formulas, the drop by GNC keeps you in the know and on top of your goals. New drops launch regularly, so there's always something exciting to discover. Right now, you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you swipe, scroll, and hopefully download the latest episode of the Athletic NBA Daily. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with my voice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.

[Dave Dufour]

Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling

[Esperahenny]

up and audit dread.

[Dave Dufour]

It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance.

[Esperahenny]

Get it?

[Dave Dufour]

Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com, the Detroit Pistons have survived for another day. They pick up a big win in game five. 116, 109. Our man Hunter Patterson was there for the Cade versus Paulo duel. Hunter, how's it going? What's going on?

[Hunter Patterson]

I'm doing well. A lot of buckets back and forth tonight and just good hoop.

[Dave Dufour]

Look, the craziest thing about this. Look. Paolo and cade both score 45 points in the game.

[Esperahenny]

Crazy.

[Dave Dufour]

The craziest thing for me is that 45 points is a Detroit Pistons playoff single game record. That, that seems shockingly low.

[Ad Voice]

It's one of those.

[Esperahenny]

It's one of those records where you. It's not real. It doesn't feel real to you?

[Dave Dufour]

How do they not have a 50?

[Esperahenny]

Not even Isaiah Thomas, man. I mean, Dave, you were there for all of Isaiah Thomas.

[Hunter Patterson]

Nah, it's crazy to me. Like, I think it kind of just speaks to the level of team basketball they play. And then also, sorry, people who maybe love 80s and 90s basketball more than I do. Like, it's just less.

[Dave Dufour]

A lot less. Buckets were. Listen, the Pistons were playing really good basketball, but, like, nobody's gonna be like, oh, the Detroit Pistons were hooping in the 80s. You know, they were beating people up and they were winning games. It wasn't scoring. Yeah, not the way we think of that.

[Esperahenny]

Not even like a chauncey Billups 45. Like, I don't know.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, no, no. RIP Hamilton 45. Not even. No. Yeah. Dave Bing was the previous record holder. 44. Right.

[Hunter Patterson]

Rip. Rip did have a 40 piece.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, there we go. Okay, so. But no 50. That's shocking. Okay, well, let's talk about this game a little bit because Cade versus Paulo, like, we got a duel, 45 point games. They were going back and forth equally. Both had like some crazy shots just as far as like hand in the face, you know, Cade sticking threes, which, you know, obviously is not something that he's really known for. What was it like watching this in the building? And did it feel like the heavyweight fight that it looked like it did?

[Hunter Patterson]

Because it seemed like each team was getting ready to make. Well, not necessarily each team. Honestly, like each time he thought that the Pistons were getting ready to pull away, it was just Paolo. And you have to give him a ton of credit because the Pistons defense at one point was very much centered around how do we stop this man? And Paulo's not the best three point shooter. I think we all know that. He was 6 for 11 tonight. He got to the line. I mean, the Magic as a whole shot pretty terribly from the free throw line tonight. They were six for 30.

[Dave Dufour]

16 for 30. Yeah. Excuse me.

[Hunter Patterson]

16 for 30. That would have been crazy.

[Dave Dufour]

Six, six for 30.

[Esperahenny]

We're doing a emergency Shaq numbers from free throw line.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yeah, but I mean, I just credit to Paolo because he was. He was getting shots off over two, sometimes three people. And he was keeping the Magic in the game almost single handedly at one point.

[Esperahenny]

I mean, I also thought like, to. To the point of the duel that we saw both of these teams rev it up defensively. Like obviously at this point in the series, you kind of know what the other team is going to throw at, throw out at you. And so Cade in that fourth quarter, the clutch mid range shot after the three point shot is falling for him, I think is a. Is reading the defense, understanding what's coming to him and then kind of going to the counter that was given. What do you think is, is I guess the next step for this Pistons team if they want to pull out another one in force Game seven?

[Hunter Patterson]

I think there's still an opportunity to just clean up turnovers. I mean, they didn't have the high turnover toner turnover numbers that they did in the last two games, but they still had 17. They allowed 22 points off turnovers. They missed seven free throws. They allowed eight offensive rebounds. Although they, they doubled that. They had 16 of their own. But there are just small areas they can continue to clean up that won't necessarily put them in a game where Cade has to hit a shot like he. He hit.

[Dave Dufour]

Let me ask you a question that might be a little tricky. Who's been the second best player for the Pistons in this series?

[Hunter Patterson]

I'm gonna say a Sar Thompson. Like it's, it's. He took five shots, but the fact that he had 15 rebounds, five steals. There's.

[Esperahenny]

He was incredible tonight.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yeah, he, he alters a game without scoring in a way that I don't know if I can say I've seen anyone else do it. I know, I mean s. Scotty does that as well, but he's a better scorer than Asar, so. Yeah, he's just, he's someone who's extremely impactful. 36 minutes in the game and it felt like he should have been out there more obviously. Got to give Tobias a bunch of credit. He's been stepping up, although the threes haven't really been falling for him. He was one.

[Dave Dufour]

Not at all.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yeah. Yeah, but I mean he's. He's been able to be pretty reliable down the stretch and get a bucket with his back to the basket. But to answer your question, to me, the second most valuable Piston in this series has been Assar Thompson.

[Esperahenny]

Feels like they're still not getting everything they want from Jalen Duran. I mean, it's, it, it goes without saying that he has had a disappointing series. Do you. What do they have to do to unlock him in this series? Or is there even a way to unlock Jalen Duran in the final game? Game and a half, two games of this series remaining.

[Hunter Patterson]

I think it, It's a combination of him getting more Looks which first play of the game, they went to him and he had an and one and he was out of the game for a while. When he came back in the fourth quarter, it was the same situation. He had another and one and six shots. I. I think he should be looking to be a bit more aggressive. There's been a lot of situations at the top of the key where they'll be in DHL actions and Wendell Carter is completely off of him and not expecting him to try to look at the basket at all. So there's been some times where I think he can kind of pull a page out of Draymond's book where you're faking the DHO and you're just getting straight downhill. And at 6, 10, 2, 50, he can either get to the basket or get to the free throw line. And he didn't miss a free throw. He was four for four.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

So I think there's just ways where he can be aggressive within their schemes to try to give himself more opportunity to score.

[Dave Dufour]

It's tough with the way the Magic are guarding. You know, they're just. They're packing the paint. They are. They are sagging way off on all those actions outside every single one of them. It's Cade hitting threes. It was the key to the game. Cade making those threes when they came. That opens everything up. Now they gotta step up on him and Durant for Duran. I just don't feel like he's as good getting downhill from like the nail as you would expect him to be in this scenario because they're throwing so many bodies. This is where I. I do think that having. And. And I know you. You feel like Asar has been really good in this series, but in a lot of ways he is limited what they can do on offense because you just. You don't have someone who's great at working out of the corner or working as a dunker. So Duran doesn't really have an outlet there. The other. The other side, the shooter is going to be guarded much more closely because you're not. You are only worried about one shooter at a time for the Pistons. And so everything is just so condensed. He didn't really have a lot of options. So what about just playing Durin in more lineups that don't have a SAR that you know, with more shooting?

[Hunter Patterson]

And.

[Dave Dufour]

And do you think that that maybe would unlock him like in game six?

[Hunter Patterson]

I think it. It could for sure. Just because it's obvious that the Magic are packing the pain on him. Earlier After. After game one, he was in practice where he had a defender guarding him. He had a defender on the strong side, and then he had a defender rotating over from the weak side to try to replicate the Magic's defense on him. And it's just. There's really not a lot of room to operate. But to some degree, I feel Asar as just being a really good cutter can kind of take people away from the paint in certain actions. And I do think that there's a world where Duran can be more aggressive with the SAR on the floor. But I agree that if you have Herter, who was out today with, I believe it was an abductor strain. If you have Duncan, if Javante's hitting from three, he was. What did he have? He was blanking right here, but he got a couple threes.

[Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

Javante had.

[Dave Dufour]

He was one of four.

[Esperahenny]

One of four.

[Dave Dufour]

It was a big three, though. It was super timely three. Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

But if you. If you have Duran on the court with guys who spread the floor, I think inevitably that. That gives him more room to operate.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Cause he's not a bad passer. He's not like. If he has options for.

[Esperahenny]

He can get better, though. I will say, of course.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, I mean, listen, he. You know, we. We watched him improve quite a bit. I'm. I'm not sold on this thing that, like the. The jury is now in on Jalen Duran because he's having a bad series. Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I do think that he's not having a lot of favors done with him with the rotation.

[Esperahenny]

I would say, honestly, if this was a different matchup, if the. The Pistons were not playing the Orlando Magic, and it was the. The New York Knicks, the Boston Celtics, whoever, Dern would have a better series than he's playing having right now.

[Hunter Patterson]

This.

[Esperahenny]

I genuinely believe that.

[Hunter Patterson]

I think this really just boils down to matchups being everything in the whole season. Like, you have Wendell, you have paolo, who's about 6 10, who can rotate over. Franz was out tonight, but he's another lengthy defender. You have even Jamal Kane, who started tonight. He's 6 7. There's just a ton of guys who are tall with long wingspans who can kind of try to neutralize Darren. And that seems like that's been a big part of what's going on.

[Esperahenny]

Jamal Kane is 6 7.

[Dave Dufour]

Wow. Also, by the way, you know, Jamal Kane should come off the bench, start Anthony Black in Game 6. Jamal Mosley, the Anthony Black in the starting lineup that they. They ripped in this game. They actually. I think they had a 20A plus 22 net rating. Don't quote me on that. That's the top of my head. But yeah, Anthony Black should start.

[Hunter Patterson]

Sorry.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, he had 4:30, but yeah, he was great. Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Hunter, I have to ask you because I feel like when it comes to the Pistons right now, there's, you know, like we said, the jury is out on, on a lot of these guys. Like, it's, it's kind of rushing to make a conclusion about what this team is. We don't know if they're going to end up winning the series. Maybe they end up winning the series and dispelling all of the conversation, the narrative. Right. But how do you, if they do lose this series, how do you assess this season? Given the fact that they won 60 games, given the fact that I think Dennis Jenkins hasn't had a great postseason, Jalen Duran hasn't had a great postseason. What do you, what do you think of this team moving forward, even outside of, I guess, Game six and potentially Game seven?

[Hunter Patterson]

I think inevitably it would be a disappointment, but I think there are things in this series that feels somewhat necessary for a team who is as young as the Pistons to go through to get to where they want to be. And yeah, I mean, after not winning the series last year, you're going to want to get to. You just want to have more success than you had last season given the regular season that you had. But as a team, with Cade being 24A SARS 23 during his 22, like, there's inevitably just gonna have to be some learning experiences that you go through. And I might be more glass half full than, than the average person, but I think that this is a series that you learn from and you don't just, yeah. Hang your head.

[Esperahenny]

Don't be reactionary.

[Hunter Patterson]

Yeah. I don't think this is that because you're playing an eight seed who hasn't played great, but it's also an eight seat who is not, in my opinion, the average AC.

[Dave Dufour]

Right. Oh, 100. Well, we, you know, we talked about this on the shoot around yesterday with Law Murray and, and he actually said if, if you had been in a coma all season and you woke up and it was Orlando, Detroit, you would assume that Orlando had maybe been the 1 seed and that Detroit had been the 8 seed. If you just go back and like think about the way that we were

[Esperahenny]

talking about the season.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. I mean, the Magic clearly, like had an underachieving season and they got healthy just in time for the playoffs and, and again, The. The styles makes fights thing also they are able to match up.

[Esperahenny]

Orlando has a little bit more playoff experience. Like, sure, Paulo has been there a couple more times.

[Dave Dufour]

They've got more guys that can make shots, too. And that, to me, is the big thing with the Pistons. And what they're going to have to do when they eventually get to their summer is find out who that other guy is that's going to make shots. Where are the shooters going to come from? You know, I mean, we. The warts that we're seeing are all things that we expected this team to run into come playoff time. They were never, you know, this was never a. A perfect finalist or anything like that.

[Hunter Patterson]

It's not.

[Esperahenny]

Financial crisis.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Before we get out of here, I gotta. All right, tell me. All right, we're. We're post game now. Game six. What happened to get the Pistons to game seven?

[Hunter Patterson]

I think you limit turnovers. Turnovers. I mean, this is like, basically you. You play better basketball factors. Yeah. Like, you limit turnovers because the. The Magic have lived off points, off turnovers this entire series. You limit second chance points, which they've also lived off of this entire series. And you don't overthink the moment. Like, if you can somehow simplify this in your head, that this is a road game, we have to win, and you don't look at it like, oh, my God, our world is ending if we don't win this game. You don't put too much pressure on yourself. You give yourself a chance to come back to a Little Caesars arena that's going to be ready to lose its

[Dave Dufour]

mind, and it'll be hot and ready.

[Hunter Patterson]

Oh, my God. We. That was amazing. $5. $5. It'll be. A Little Caesar will be hot and ready on Sunday if they get back. So I. I think it's just. Don't overthink it. Stop turning the ball over and play the way that you played all season, and you give yourself a chance to really win this series.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, let's call it. Let's call it.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Hunter Patterson]

Are they gonna.

[Dave Dufour]

Are we going to seven?

[Hunter Patterson]

We're going to seven.

[Esperahenny]

I agree.

[Dave Dufour]

We're going to seven. Guys, I've said this. Stay in Orlando because the Pistons are going to Disney World. They'll already be on vacation. It's a rap. In game six. I saw what I needed to see in this game. Look, the Magic, they had a shot. They just didn't have enough juice. You get them back home. I'm telling you, that Florida sunshine, that orange juice from concentrate that they love down there.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, it all comes down to rebounding and points in the paint every single time. Whoever has won the rebounding and points in the paint battle in this game, in the series has won. Detroit did it tonight. I'm, I'm very fascinated to see, but I, I think it's going seven. I'm with Hunter. I'm with Hunter. Man 5 Hot and ready Little Caesars Arena.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, well, I'm rooting for seven just for Hunter because I would like to read Hunter writing about a game seven. Everybody go and check out Hunter at the Athletic. He's so good at his job. That's why he's on here all the time, because I love it. For Hunter Patterson and Esperahenny, I'm Dave Dufour and this is Ben the NBA Daily thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe button or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[Ad Voice 2]

Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app Wayfair

[Dave Dufour]

Every style, Every Home. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show see [e-mail] creditcard hi, this is Pablo

[Ad Voice 2]

Torre from Pablo Torre Finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill, it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan Savings claim based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com.