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- [00:00]
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- [02:14]
Jared Weiss
Welcome to the show. I am Jared Weiss. I am joined by Mo Takeil. Mo, how are you doing after watching the Lakers actually running offense for the first time time in a long time.
- [02:24]
Mo Takeil
I'm doing great, Jared. I mean we got basketball back on Jared. All this other sports, man. Yeah, we got the NBA back.
- [02:32]
Jared Weiss
Who would have thought that preseason basketball could be so exciting? But the lakers, new coach J.J. redick, new superstar Bronnie James, they look like they have a coherent and exciting offense.
- [02:44]
Mo Takeil
Now let's temper this here because I think I might have hyped you up too much in the previous Conversation. Just happy. They're running plays, Jared. Like, it's that simple. Like they had a, a series of horns actions. It's not like, by the way, this isn't earth shattering plays. They're not inventing the wheel or anything like that, but they're actually, but they are with the Lakers, they're actually running an offense, right? Setting up horns, putting different guys in there, having AD kind of play at the high post and playing out of the elbow really nice there. Then they're running wedge roll actions. They're sneaking in stuff like Spain inside the wedge roll and things like that. Like, they got a lot of nice things that are cooking up and you're seeing just a lot more positive movement, player movement, ball movement. It's early. It's their second preseason game. It's the first with LeBron and AD but it's the, the idea of like, if this is kind of the offense they're going to start to build and, and this is really what JJ wants to build as a coach. Like, I'm for it. I think this is great for the team, for the organization, and, and, and I think this is a good offense and a good game plan for them going into this season.
- [03:57]
Jared Weiss
Yeah, they had that play in the first quarter where I think it was LeBron gave it to AD in the post and then was it. Dlo set a screen for LeBron and LeBron just cut right down the middle for the give and go. That was tough. I'm like, that stuff is so easy. Why can't they just do that over and over again when you got two guys who are either old or dealing with health or you could just make it easy for them to score baskets.
- [04:19]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, I mean, it's just along those lines. Like, listen, here's the thing. This is kind of what tends to happen as the season goes on. Tired legs. LeBron's a thousand years old, playing unbelievable, but nonetheless, like, legs get tired. You, you take shortcuts, you don't run as much plays. You go into just, let's just go into ISO. Let's just go into 14 pick and roll. Let's kind of spread the floor and things like that. And this is not a Laker team filled with shooting that you can just say, all right, we're just going to run, spread, pick and roll and kill you all with our shooting and spread the floor so LeBron can get down. You got to get creative like that. And I like that they're beginning to do that early in the preseason. Whether this will stick, I Mean, whether they'll even stick through the entire preseason, Jared, is something we don't know. But if this is something that can stick and maintain for them throughout the season, like, this is a good starting point for them offensively.
- [05:11]
Jared Weiss
Also, can you explain what a wedge roll is for our listeners? Because you threw a lot of stuff in there and, like, I think most people know horns at this point, but wedge roll, that's a tricky one.
- [05:20]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, wedge roll is. Just think about it this way. The guard brings up the ball on the side of the court. You have your big man kind of in the trailer position. The guard kicks it off to somebody along the wing, fakes like he's going to cut to the basket, then comes back and sets a screen for the big man. The big man can, if it's a wedge, can come off the screen and into the post. AD will do that a few times or come off the screen from the guard and go set a ball screen, hence wedge roll. So that's the. The basic gist of it. If you have questions, I'll draw a diagram for folks later.
- [05:54]
Jared Weiss
We'll just. We'll paint a mental picture on that one. But, yeah, obviously, so much of that is going to revolve around AD and how do they use ad how do they maximize ad? And on the last episode of the show, you and Dave Dufour were talking about how you felt like you don't want AD taking more three pointers. What was your rationale for that? And seeing how they've been playing, how do you feel in hindsight?
- [06:17]
Mo Takeil
Oh, I still feel like I'm correct in the analysis of AD shouldn't be his goal, shouldn't be taking a lot more threes. If you can't make them, you shouldn't be taking them. Like, that's the shot the defense will give up over and over again. He shot it, okay, against Phoenix. He had some open looks, but he's not going to shoot it at a clip high enough where any team is going to say, all right, let's. Let's, you know, take away. Let's let LeBron drive, because we don't want to give up this 83. He's not going to make them at a high enough clip. Now, if he goes into this season and he's shooting 38, 37% from 3, cool, that's perfect. That's. Then. Then they're right. I just don't think he's ever going to do that. And I think that's really the. The issue I have with the idea of like, hey, AD should shoot more threes. Sure. I'd also like if he could make them. And I don't know if that's something we're necessarily gonna see or something I would count on offensively.
- [07:11]
Jared Weiss
I mean, do you think him taking threes and shooting poorly affects his mindset and how he plays offensively? Is it just poor value shot if you don't think he's going to hit it?
- [07:21]
Mo Takeil
I think it's a poor value shot. I don't know how it'll affect his mindset or whatnot, but I think where he's at his best, honestly, I like the, I love the horns action with him and putting him at the elbow. He had two great dimes, one to D'Angelo Russell, one to LeBron James. Just off of that alone. He had some nice little post up actions off the wedge roll. Good strong rolls to the basket off of wedge getting some post ups. I think there's a little more opportunities there for him to maximize there. I think he's at his best in a face up game. I don't think this is a guy that, hey, the idea of him moving out to the three point line is I'm going to create space in driving lanes, but if I don't have to guard him, the and I'm not worried about him shooting threes and hey, he might go two for four some games. Cool, I'll live with that. But I'd rather clog the lane more for the LeBron drives and take that away than just give up and, and be so concerned about the AD3s. Like that's the kind of thing I think you have to sort of look at and what you're weighing with A.D.
- [08:25]
Jared Weiss
Do you think he's better attacking like from the high post when he's in those like horns actions and other things where you can set up out there?
- [08:31]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, I think it's a no brainer. I think that's just the perfect spot for him right there, face up. He's quick, he's agile, he can get to the rim pretty quick. I think that's where I'd probably try to play him.
- [08:43]
Jared Weiss
Okay, so J.J. redick, one of the things he's been harping on is getting the three point volume up. How do you, what do you think of the way that they've been trying to get more three pointers and the quality of the looks that they're getting, which obviously early in preseason quality of your threes probably is going to be great when you're focusing on principles, but what do you see as kind of a pathway for this offense getting more efficient?
- [09:04]
Mo Takeil
I think the, the idea of like we got to get more threes up is, is something every team's thinking, right? Like, look, you know, it's a copycat league. The Boston Celtics won the championship and they shot a million threes a game. Like I think. And that's what everybody's going to try to do. And it's a math thing, right? But the key component to all that is you have to make them right. Like that's just the key thing, right? You could shoot a ton of threes, but if you're not making them at a high enough clip, it doesn't matter. And I think that's kind of the concern that the Lakers have to look at. They've gotten good looks and I want to see what Dalton Connect can do. I want to see what some of these guys do as they go forward and in, in terms of building on this stuff. But they're getting good looks. Like I like the way their offense is moving. I think if they end up just saying, being so focused on just getting threes up though, it'll hurt them. I think they, they have to be more concerned of good shot hunting instead of just three point shot hunting. And I think that'll be the interesting thing because I don't think they have the shooters yet where I just feel like, okay, they have enough shooters. They should be shooting 40 something threes a game. They should be in the top five in, in three point attempts. Like, I know that's what they want to be in, but I want to see them actually be able to get good shots because that's going to be the key for them.
- [10:21]
Jared Weiss
I mean, just looking at their loss of Phoenix, they went 11 for 40, 27 and a half percent. And I mean LeBron shot 2 for 3, but it was like Delo shot 2 for 6, Austin Reeves over 7, Max Christie 2 for 8, Dalton Connect 1 for 7. Those are all guys that I think you would want to be taking that high volume and you know, they had bad shooting night, but I'd imagine guys like Christian Connect at some point in the season are going to find a rhythm there.
- [10:48]
Mo Takeil
I mean, Christie's young and, and connects a rookie. Like we can't, we can't just go and assume they're going to. Right. Like there's still, you know, there, there is no historical precedent that we can just go on and these guys are guys that we expect to do it. But it's again, it's something that we just got to see and go and yeah, there's going to be bad shooting nights. It's just, it happens to every team. Right. So there's no question about that stuff. How. Let's just see if this is the team that's going to be able to kind of. If this is the type of Laker team that can be able to spread the floor enough. Like. I still have my doubts, man.
- [11:24]
Jared Weiss
Well, what do you think overall of JJ's approach so far? The way his messaging has carried over from his podcasting days and some of the similarities, maybe some of the differences? Like what have you thought of the JJ experience?
- [11:36]
Mo Takeil
I think it's, I mean, it's really early, but I still think it's. This is. He's going about it the way I kind of expect JJ to go about it. Like I spent one year with him with the Clippers and you know, just kind of the. He's the same guy in the sense of like, he's not going to be really. No nonsense or anything like that. I like that he's introducing stuff offensively. Let's see what the defense kind of looks like and how that sort of builds out. But I like where they're at. I think everybody made a big deal. I know it talked about it with Dave, about the press conference and the, the little bit of the back and forth with the, the reporter, but I don't think it's like crazy. I'm interested to see what he's going to do when they're on like a three or four game losing streak. Yeah, that's where it's, that's where you find out what training camp's great, preseason's great, you don't need to win these games. It's when the record starts to count, then you have to start to Wonder what, what JJ's going to be like as a coach and if they're winning, what's he like? What's he like? If they're going through a bunch of losses or go through in a rough patch, that's the stuff that's going to be fascinating.
- [12:44]
Jared Weiss
It would be really interesting to see how JJ responds to like, if you can't be like, oh, I'm the smartest guy in the room because the team is not winning and you don't have the empirical evidence to back up that what you're doing is working. So, you know, Lakers have a few reporters around there. I'm sure it'll get very, very interesting. You should get a question in at some point. I'm just curious to see if he tries to bite your head off.
- [13:06]
Mo Takeil
No, I'm not going to ask questions. It's more fun to just lob from away further.
- [13:12]
Jared Weiss
Okay. We're talking about whether things look real in the preseason. Zion Williamson. This guy looks nimble. He looks. He looked fast attacking off the dribble, getting. I mean, we're used to Zion Williamson getting deep into the paint, but he was kind of zipping there a little bit faster than I remember seeing from him.
- [13:32]
Mo Takeil
It wasn't even just that, Jared. It was, you know, point Zion. Like he was aggressively finding guys he was getting. I mean, the first couple possessions for the Pelicans was all Zion creating offense, kicking it out to the wing for a three hit dice on a. On a baseline dunker spot. You know, like him getting into the lane like this was actually some really impressive stuff from Zion. And where I look at it going like, wow. Like, I'm actually excited for the Pelicans and I want him to stay healthy like the whole year, including the playoffs. Knock on wood. But I think this is the kind of excitement we can see from them. Like this is the type of season just he can. I'll go out on a limb. He could be an all NBA guy if he's going to play like this.
- [14:16]
Jared Weiss
Oh yeah.
- [14:16]
Mo Takeil
And be point Zion attack and, and you know, and. And constantly be a downhill threat the way he was early in this again, preseason game. But looked amazing. Thinking can sustain that, create for others and himself. Like, I mean, this is. The sky's the limit for the kid.
- [14:35]
Jared Weiss
Sure. I mean, a healthy Zion playing 70 games, this is always going to be all NBA. The question is, could it be first team all NBA? And you look at the smoothness with which he's playing now and he doesn't. He doesn't have as much of a bull in the china shop feel as he did a couple years ago. I think he's getting a little bit smarter in knowing when he has to get over aggressive and start actually moving bodies versus just being kind of more patient with his tempo to get to where he needs to. But. But also what I'm liking is like there were a few of those drives where he can't get all the way to the rim. So he does that little hop step and he spins around and hits a little lefty hook. I'm like, all right, we're seeing a little bit more of that kind of clever finesse stuff where you don't have to try to just like jump over everybody and put yourself at risk.
- [15:19]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, I mean, this is the stuff you want to see. I mean, this is years of in the NBA and learning again too. I can't jump out of the gym every night. I can't just try to use my explosiveness or my athleticism straight away. Like, these are the smart things that we're seeing from Zion that I'm really intrigued by. And even the stuff where it's like, cool, I'll get in the lane, defense will collapse. There's the kick out. And he's got enough guys out there, guys like C.J. who can knock down shots. You know, it's. It's Jordan Hawkins, it's Trey Murphy, it's. It's Herb Jones. Like, these are the guys that need to hit shots because he's going to be able to create for those guys. It'll be really interesting to see how that sort of plays out. And then also, he just still has that downhill speed, man.
- [16:02]
Jared Weiss
Well, what's funny is it was quickly looking at the box score on ESPN for their game against Orlando and CJ McCollum, it's listed him at shooting guard. Dejounte Murray listed him at shooting guard. There's nobody that's being listed as point guard on this Pelicans team right now in the starting lineup. So it obviously goes to your point Zion. Point there. But do you think that Zion, and with the, I mean, he's playing with guys like In Murray, that McCollum that can bring the ball up, can run the pick and roll, but do you think Zion should be the guy that probably is the primary initiator most of the time?
- [16:36]
Mo Takeil
I think he should be for, for half of it and I think other times they should use him as a roller so he gets a little bit downhill and then can attack off of that. It all comes down to how those guys are playing as well, right? Like how. What type of season is Murray having? Is he gonna have a bounce back season or is it going to be what we saw with him in the Hawks, which was like, I think this is going to be a big season for Murray in that regards as well. But the beauty of it is as a coach, you want to be able to play different ways and put the guys in different spots and attack different ways and whatnot. This allows them, they can have Zion bring the ball up to court, they can have Murray bringing the ball up to court, have Zion set a screen for him. Boom, hit Zion and then Zion gets to go downhill and then turn into point Zion once he touches it and kind of create for everybody you could play so many different ways out of that stuff. I think it'll be a fun, I fun environment for a lot of these guys offensively.
- [17:33]
Jared Weiss
And then on the other side of the ball, you know, Dejounte Murray made a point. I think it was that media day that he wants to be back to being an all NBA defender. You know, we remember second year in San Antonio, made the all defensive team, but he had some moments in Atlanta where his defense was really impressive, especially in games where Trey Young wasn't out there. But like he obviously has not been at that level. And looking at like who they lost this off season. There's a lot of responsibility on Murray to be that defender. Do you think he's up for the task and do you think the Pelicans can be a good defensive team? Especially like if Daniel Tice is starting at the five?
- [18:10]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, I mean look, they're in a tough position with the center spot, right? Like, let's just be honest, Tyce is probably not a starting caliber center for most NBA teams for teams that want to reach the playoffs and beyond. So I think that's kind of a spot and a hole that they got to figure out. But you just look at them along the perimeter, man, defensively like they're pretty solid, right? We, I mean Murray can really amp it up another level, I think. But when you have Herb Jones, you have Trey Murphy, I think defensively doing a great job. I think there are times where we saw it from Zion last year where I thought his defense was great and I think, you know, he was more in tuned on that end. So I think when you kind of have those three sort of as your starting point, I think you're in a good position and I think Murray can really sort of excel in this area and be a bit more aggressive because they're going to need him to be the rim. Protection is always going to be a problem for New Orleans right now. They just, they just don't have it, plain and simple, you know. And as good as Tyce is, like it's not going to be good enough. And I think that's something to worry about. But I think Murray can reach those points and they need him to. They need him to be a lockdown defender. They need to add more defense along the perimeter to make it harder to get to the rim so that it's not such a big point that the rim protection isn't going to be there.
- [19:28]
Jared Weiss
You know, back in high school, Zion was playing the five defensively a lot and he was very Impressive. I'd love to see that come back again. I think maybe there's a concern of you just don't want him having to leave his feet on defense a ton because he's going to be doing it on offense. It's just going to wear him down.
- [19:43]
Mo Takeil
I'm sorry, did you say back in high school Zion was playing. You brought high school Zion into the conversation behind playing center in the NBA?
- [19:50]
Jared Weiss
It was the last time I saw him playing consistently good defense when he was surrounded by a bunch of six foot kids in Spartanburg. But yeah, it's, there's probably a reason why we haven't seen him defend the five very often in the NBA.
- [20:02]
Mo Takeil
Okay, thank you, Jerry.
- [20:04]
Jared Weiss
Just being wishful. I'm just being wishful. Trey Murphy hurt, I guess again. He hopefully will be back soon. He's this guy that's kind of been working towards breaking out. They have a lot of guys on the Pelicans that are kind of on that precipice. Do you see the supporting cast around Zion? If Zion stays healthy and they, they're able to have consistency and hopefully Brandon Ingram comes back healthy, that they can actually like that everybody can kind of flourish and they can have that great depth to make them a truly great team in the West.
- [20:35]
Mo Takeil
Yeah, I mean I think they need some of these guys to really kind of pop off and I think it's going to be a, in a big way. But I think if they're going to make any noise in the west and I touched on it already and I'm going to hammer it probably all season, they need to find a good center. They just, I mean as much as we just joked a little bit about Zion playing center, he can do it at times, but it's not going to be something. You want him to play large minutes at that position throughout the season and it's going to wear him down and whatnot. I think yes, we have a possibility when Trey Murphy comes back for him to have a chance to explode. We know he's looking for a contract extension and I think that's going to be a big one there. I think you have Herb Jones. We're just, you know, I think we're waiting for these guys to take the next step forward with everything that they have. They have a lot of talent on this roster. I mean we, who knows how the Brandon Ingram thing is going to shake up and how that turns out at the end but like they got a lot of talent on this roster, more than most teams. I think this is a team that definitely can be a problem in the west when they're playing at the right level and really looking to attack. It's going to be interesting, but this is a big season for all of these guys, especially for Murphy, who's going to be looking for that new big.
- [21:43]
Jared Weiss
Contract that'll do it for us. For Mo Teil, I'm Jared Weiss. See you next time on the show.
- [21:53]
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- [22:19]
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- [23:12]
Mo Takeil
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- [23:16]
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- [23:20]
Mo Takeil
Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast. For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do. We love getting to talk to experts. We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from you. But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh. A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us. So in this spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness. The Laugh Lines podcast will be all about aging together better and also being able to laugh about getting older. We hope you'll join us. Search Laugh lines with Kim and pen holderness. New episodes every Tuesday.
- [24:04]
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- [24:10]
Mo Takeil
Acast.com.