Can the Pacers bounce back in Indy?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily – "Can the Pacers Bounce Back in Indy?"

Episode Information:

• Title: Can the Pacers Bounce Back in Indy?
• Release Date: June 11, 2025
• Hosts: Dave DeFore, Zena Keda
• Guest: Scott Agnes from Field House Files

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1. Introduction

Dave DeFore welcomes listeners to the NBA Daily episode, setting the stage for an intense NBA Finals series between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. With the series tied at 1-1, the focus shifts to Game Three, now relocated to Indianapolis due to flight logistics, prompting Scott Agnes from Field House Files to provide in-depth analysis.

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2. Game Recaps

Game One:
The Pacers showcased resilience by mounting a significant comeback, securing victory with an impressive shot from Tyrese Halliburton. This win demonstrated Indiana's ability to adapt and fight back under pressure.

Game Two:
Contrastingly, the Thunder dominated, controlling the game from start to finish. Their strategic execution emphasized their status as favorites, setting up a critical Game Three.

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3. Player Updates

Tyrese Halliburton's Condition:
A central concern revolves around Tyrese Halliburton's physical state following Game Two. Scott Agnes observes:

[03:08] Scott Agnes: "He was walking with a limp and seemed to favor his leg, which was noticeable during his shortened press conference."

Halliburton acknowledged a lower leg issue, sporting kinesiology tape below his calf during practice, yet he appeared upbeat. Zena Keda adds:

[04:24] Zena Keda: "In the fourth quarter, it felt like Tyrese bounced back, maintaining his shot volume similar to the first three quarters despite showing signs of discomfort."

Scott remains optimistic about Halliburton's availability for Game Three, suggesting:

[05:23] Scott Agnes: "Based on his movement, I don't think it will limit him, but it's something to monitor, especially if the team adjusts to have Andrew Nemhard take on a larger role."

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4. Strategic Analysis

Thunder's Double Big Lineup:
Dave DeFore highlights the Thunder's strategic shift in Game Two by introducing a double big lineup, which proved pivotal in their early-game dominance.

[14:36] Dave DeFore: "They went to the double big lineup with about four minutes left in the first quarter, flipping the switch for them."

Scott Agnes critiques this move, labeling it as somewhat premature:

[14:54] Scott Agnes: "As a rookie coach in the Finals, it felt a bit amateurish compared to Rick Carlisle's seasoned approach of sticking to their strengths."

Pacers' Five-Out Offense:
Indiana's strategy emphasizes spacing and perimeter play, aiming to exploit the gaps left by Oklahoma City's double big approach.

[16:23] Scott Agnes: "If you can space them out, you're going to have open threes or set up plays that could open gaps, benefiting the Pacers' offense."

Zena Keda notes the challenges Indiana faces against Thunder's off-ball defense:

[17:25] Zena Keda: "Indiana tries to initiate plays in the five-out system, but the Thunder's off-ball help disrupts their flow, making it difficult to maintain consistent offensive momentum."

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5. Team Dynamics and Player Contributions

Indiana Pacers:
The Pacers rely on a collective effort, with seven players scoring in double figures during Game Two. However, the absence of a standout scorer like Shea Nemhardt raises concerns about their ability to navigate critical moments.

[11:17] Scott Agnes: "They have seven players in double figures but none above 19 points, indicating a spread-out but not deeply impactful scoring."

Oklahoma City Thunder:
Thunder's depth is highlighted as a strength, with multiple players capable of stepping up. Scott emphasizes the importance of stars like Shea Nemhardt and Pascal Siakam.

[11:17] Scott Agnes: "You need Tyrese and Pascal to be called upon more. 11 field goal attempts are insufficient to secure a win."

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6. Expectations for Upcoming Games

Game Three and Beyond:
Scott Agnes anticipates a split in the series, considering Pacers' home-court advantage and the Thunder's depth:

[19:35] Scott Agnes: "I still believe Thunder will win the series outright, but I expect a split given the team's determination not to leave Indianapolis without at least one win."

Zena Keda concurs, highlighting the pivotal nature of Game Three:

[18:24] Zena Keda: "Indiana taking advantage of home court by setting the tone early could force Oklahoma City into mistakes, making Game Three crucial."

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7. Storylines and Excitement

Despite criticisms of lacking star power compared to other finals:

[20:13] Scott Agnes: "The sell here is the potential for either team to win their first NBA title, coupled with strong team depth and strategic gameplay."

Zena Keda and Dave DeFore emphasize the human elements and unique storylines:

[22:04] Dave DeFore: "These are human beings with compelling narratives, making the series engaging beyond just the box scores."

Scott Agnes adds that the series embodies an "anti-superstar movement," celebrating team chemistry and collective effort over individual accolades.

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8. Conclusion

Dave DeFore wraps up the episode by reaffirming the depth of analysis provided by Scott Agnes and encouraging listeners to stay engaged with the unfolding NBA Finals. The consensus underscores a highly competitive series with strategic depth and compelling personal narratives, making it a must-watch for basketball enthusiasts.

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Notable Quotes:

• Scott Agnes [03:08]: "He was walking with a limp and seemed to favor his leg, which was noticeable during his shortened press conference."

• Zena Keda [04:24]: "It felt like Tyrese bounced back, maintaining his shot volume similar to the first three quarters despite showing signs of discomfort."

• Dave DeFore [14:36]: "They went to the double big lineup with about four minutes left in the first quarter, flipping the switch for them."

• Scott Agnes [19:35]: "I still believe Thunder will win the series outright, but I expect a split given the team's determination not to leave Indianapolis without at least one win."

---

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily offers a comprehensive examination of the ongoing NBA Finals, delving into player health, strategic maneuvers, team dynamics, and the broader narratives that make this series uniquely captivating.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for June 11, 2025. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Keda. Coming up, the NBA Finals is moving back to Indianapolis with the series tied 11 between the Thunder and the Pacers, and our guy, Scott Agnes from Field House Files is here to break down everything you need to know for Game three. The NBA Finals has shifted to Indianapolis and a bunch of people I think had a arduous trip because apparently there's no direct flight from Oklahoma City to Indianapolis here to join us. Just got back to Indianapolis. Scott Agnes, who covers the Pacers and the Fever at Field House Files. You can follow them on substack and all over social media. Scott, how you doing? Are you feeling okay? Back to normal now that you're in Indy?

[Scott Agnes]

Back to normal? Just short on sleep, but I think we'll sleep when this series is over with, right?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, if you can sleep after these games, obviously. Tale of two games so far. Game one, we saw the Pacers mount a Pacer like comeback. Get the win on. On that amazing Halliburton shot. And then game two looked more like the Thunder that we expected to see, where they, you know, basically controlled the game for the entire game. How was media day today? Need an update on Tyrese Halliburton? Cause we saw him Post Game Game 2, Walking with a limp and a little bit worried about him for game three.

[Scott Agnes]

Yeah, rightfully so. I thought it was notable. Clearly, he was walking in, and I was like, all right, is that a hitch in his step? Does he got different shoes on? No. Then he sat down and grimaced, and then he got back up, you know, four minutes later. It was a shortened press conference. I was like, that's a little bit odd. So. But yeah, he was clearly favoring something. And we should note, like, he's always battled back problems, which obviously extend to the leg. Maybe those impact how you walk. So I was. It was certainly noticeable. It was certainly worthwhile for a tweet. It was unclear right away whether it would impact him or not moving forward. Now, today, he kind of. He acknowledged it, first of all, which I appreciate. He said it's a lower leg thing. What we did observe in practice was he has that black kinesiology tape kind of just below the calf, kind of Achilles calf area, but was moving around fine. If you had no idea about how he was in the last press conference, you would have no idea that he's clearly dealing with something. He was upbeat. Rick joked in his normal way, or, hey, look, it's the end of the season. Everybody's dealing with something at this point. But good signs for the Pacers that Tyrese seems to be himself. But it's certainly something we'll watch, especially if they try to get Andrew Nemhard to run the offense just a little bit more.

[Zena Keda]

I mean, Scott, if you looked at that fourth quarter, you would have thought he was fine. I mean, it felt as if Tyrese kind of got his. His bounce back, his ability to move. He was. He took almost the same amount of shots through the first three quarters as he did in that fourth quarter. Um, but it clearly took something out of him, and that's one of the things I'm actually very curious about. When you just mentioned Andrew Nemar potentially running the offense, it looked like Tyrese did a lot better when he could catch on the move. And he could be. He could play in space as opposed to having in half court and like break things down and cause he couldn't get to the paint. Like that's what OKC does. They take it away. But it felt as if Tyrese can move a little bit more and be catching things maybe closer to the baseline, away from the paint, whatever. He'll be a little bit better. But that requires movement, that requires him to feel good. And I'm wondering from what you saw and even with the grimace, is this something that could be possible out of Tyrus Halburn going into game three?

[Scott Agnes]

I don't think it'll limit him just based on what I saw and how he was moving out there. Given I always preface it with look, the teams players, they're not going to show us anything. The most they're doing is moving from one corner to the opposite wing just to shoot threes and a shooting drill at the end of what was Pacers practice for that. But all season long, even going into this season, one thing Rick wanted to do was play the ball through Andrew a little bit more. But that was mostly trying to deal with his minutes a little bit better. And it's very similar, quite frankly to what they're doing with Caitlin Clark on the Fever side is they want her to be out there as much. But can we maximize your workload a bit. A little bit better. And so when they're picking up Tyrese full court or. And really being physical with him at half court. To your point, I. You knew coming into the series that they would take away the paint, but I was not prepared for maybe this level. The fact that they had no pain points in the first quarter. And so much of what this offense is preg. Predicated on is attacking and creating off the dribble. Even if they're not scoring in the paint. That's where things are originating from. And that's what really took them out of their offense.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, I mean, the big shift that happened in the second half of game one came from Andrew Nemhardt being on the ball more. You know, they got how again, like Xena said, getting Halliburton on the move allowed him to just free things up. But also he has some gravity that. I mean, the Oklahoma City defense is very focused on him, especially Lou Dort. Let's look ahead to game three. We've seen two games and I think that. Look, we've seen the Thunders fastball in the first two games. I think the first half of game one was their fastball, especially defensively creating turnovers. There were some offensive transition issues for them, but for the most part, I think the Thunder have looked like the better team with the Pacers looking like the scrappy Pacers that they are going into game three. I mean, what's the. What's the play for Rick Carlisle? Like, where's the adjustment going to come from?

[Scott Agnes]

Is it odd to say? Like, it seems like the. The adjustments are obvious here and a lot of it just starts with beginning the game decently well. Like, even in the first quarter of game two, even in game two, they were up 2017 feeling good despite actually a very bad first quarter. They give up a 90 run that starts that 35 to 9. I think it was run that really tilted the game entirely in that one. So to me, it's going back. It starts with those paint points. It goes with having a great start. And then also I would say as much as this team is predicated on its depth, much like the Thunder, at the same time, you need your stars in the playoffs. And so for me, it's not even the point total. I'm not emphasizing that. What I'm emphasizing here is you need Tyrese and Pascal to be called upon more and take it into their own hands a little bit more. 11 field goal attempts is not going to do it. I can just chalk up a loss right now if they take 11. 11 field goal attempts, so. Because the other thing that indicates is the ball probably wasn't in their hands as much. They probably weren't attacking and creating. And that's where Tyrese had his best and therefore, look, I think he had like six assists in that game. Now, on the other side of it, they're coming back here where I don't like to talk about arenas too much because I think it's something that like local reporters lean into, right? Like, we have the best fan base, here's the best dance team. And Thunder is really good. That was one of my first times since the pandemic, I think. And being okc, that's probably a top three environment. I think the Gainbridge field house in big games is absolutely right there. And it's remain. It's amazing to me how much ticket prices we're going for, by the way, guys, over $1,000 to get in the door for their first NBA Finals game in 25 years. So I think the atmosphere will bring it will. Will be there. And I know the Pacers, much like they did in the conference finals, are preparing big things in terms of having alums in the house. And in sitting courtside, because if that's the one area where OKC had nothing, right? When TV goes and it's like, guys, look, it's Commissioner Adam Silver. Duh.

[Zena Keda]

That's it, right? I feel like I've said this before with S and Dave, especially as we started to preview this Finals. It feels like two hometown teams, crosstown rivals, kind of going up against each other in the ways that their fan bases are showing up. And that is a lot of fun. But getting back to the adjustments for this next game, of course, you know, starting better, playing harder. You saw Indiana take advantage of the fact that OKC looked a little sped up in Game 2 to start the game. They were forcing things a little bit earlier in that first quarter, and then they kind of settled down. You would hope that they can kind of take advantage of that, being at home, setting the tone early and making OKC feel like they have to win a game on the road, and that's when they can make some mistakes. I'm curious. It seems as if there's been so, so, so, so much focus on Tyrese Halliburton. And I heard you squeak in the name Pascal Siakam. And I. I've said this before. I feel like these two series, one of the things I've been looking for is, do you need a guy or do you need guys? And OKC showed in the last game, they've got a guy. They got Shea, Gildas, Alexander. He put on a masterclass in being able to pick apart defenses and score and whenever however he wanted and what his team needed, whereas it was guys that were incapable of getting to their spots, getting the shots they wanted, et cetera. It wasn't just Tyrese. Pascal Siakam's on there. Benedict Matheran off the bench, didn't get what they wanted out of him. Neesmith, Obi, Toppin. Like, there was a list of that. But that also gives me the idea that there's more potential for a big game in game three. That's three guys that didn't show up. Right. Versus maybe if Shay doesn't show up. We'll see what happens with okc, but I feel like there's a lot more upside here for Indiana if they show up. What are your thoughts on that?

[Scott Agnes]

Yeah, you're totally right in terms of you roll out the ball and you have Shea down for 35 points. I think if you're the Pacers, you're trying to keep that from the big game potential. The 50. Yeah, right.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, right.

[Scott Agnes]

Don't have a guy that's going to score 50. They just don't. And what they do have is it's funny we mentioned all this yet they still had I think seven players in double figures but none above 17, 19 points. So they're all contributing but not in a big way. And I guess one of the, one of the things to your great point there is the depth is if you're going to be so reliant on the depth they've got to produce and they did not in game two. I mean it was Alex, Caruso, Wiggins who individually before garbage time they each outscored the Pacers bench before the the points that don't matter. And so yeah you, you need Obi Topping to knock down three three pointers out of the the corner and and Matherin, he's a guy that's still waiting to find his foot. I think it's very similar to last series. He was not good in games one, two, maybe even three. But even in the pregame presser I want to say going into game four, Rick was like look, we're going to need him in this series. And then he had back to back 20 points games. So if you can get Siakam, I think Siakam's our best overall player. Halliburton's the kind of the, the theatrics and obviously one of the best clutch shooters because he'll have awful games and then make like three key shots late and they'll still win the game. That's one of the big differences there. What you want out of him is that Cons guys, we're going to take.

[Dave DeFore]

A quick break and we'll be back with more with Scott Agnes.

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[Dave DeFore]

Lot of been made about the Thunder decision to go small, but in Game two, they went to the double big lineup with about four minutes left in the first quarter and that kind of flipped the switch for them. How, how do you see the Pacers counteracting that double big lineup, especially now that Chet looks like he's got his legs under him in this series.

[Scott Agnes]

Yeah, I think what stood out to, to me about that change wasn't what, it wasn't even what the decision was. It's that as you sit back, you see the younger, I'm going to say rookie coach in this instance, but rookie to the NBA Finals make a move before things get started. And it felt kind of amateurish. Whereas Rick, hey, we're going to do what we do best. We know what we are, we're not going to adapt to them. It's kind of that old school mindset there. But the thing that the Pacers are so pre are so successful in is having that five out mentality. So if you can space them out and create that, that floor spacing, I would think this would be so advantageous to the Pacers because either they have defenders sinking back and you're going to have open threes or you can set up, I don't know whether it's a double draft, something, a flare action maybe that could open these guys up because there's no way they're going to send your double bigs to defend the three point line, which should open those gaps up presumably, I think, and set them up for success with that offense. But I think in talking about the Peyton points, the challenge becomes then if you do get past that first line of defense, what's impressed me so much and watching More of the Thunder is the off ball help then will slide over. And what I think it was like SGA or one of them that blocked a shot from behind against the glass. It's like, all right, the Pacers did not face this much during the regular season at all, I think.

[Zena Keda]

And then was it Wallace that had that coming out from the paint block on Neesmith in the corner three. It was just like, how did you get out there?

[Scott Agnes]

Right?

[Dave DeFore]

Those guys are flying.

[Zena Keda]

They're flying. And that's one of the things that I'm looking at. Indiana, you talk about the five out offense and the point you made earlier, Scott, about the fact that I don't know if you made it now. We've been talking for a while. I don't remember when we pressed record, but about the fact that their offense may originate in the five out and you know, may touch the paint, but that's not necessarily where they're going to score. It's just that the paint opens up so much more. What are your thoughts on them being behind the defense? Because it feels as if they're trying to maybe, you know, get Miles Turner in that mid post area. And the second that happens, it's like piranhas, like they immediately swarm them or Pascal Siakam or anyone. But running the baseline, being able to use the spacing way deep, I feel like Obi Toppin, you know, found his way trying to get through the dunker spot out to the corner, etc. But there wasn't enough consistent movement to occupy space lower beyond behind the defense that could potentially open things up up towards the top.

[Scott Agnes]

That's another area where I think the Thunder have done so well. That's McConnell's sweet spot, is he just goes back and forth about that baseline, makes that weird hitch, like eight foot shot. Toppin's another good one that will maneuver and kind of just stay ready for a lob threat. I totally agree. If you can get that going, that would be huge. I just feel like that's one thing the Thunder have purposely tried to take away. Knowing that's especially where the bench finds its success. It's TJ attacking middle of the floor or if he's not involved with the play, he's, he's, he's active there on that baseline trying to create in some other fashion. I will say if they could get Matheran involved in him in this, he's their best player at attacking and just creating when nothing's going on and at getting to the free throw line. Siakam's Number two there. So I don't know if it's causing chaos or, or trying to get in foul trouble. We know how much this Thunder team fouls. That would be something that would certainly become advantageous for the Pacers if they could muster it up a little bit. But they just haven't been able to free free possessions.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, free throws and being able to get your defense set against the Thunder and force them to play half court basketball. I mean, you know, the Thunder shot the ball really, really well in game two and they have not shot it well for most of the playoffs. Pacers shot it pretty poorly and you think maybe this stuff swings back. It's hard to win two in a row on the road. What are your expectations for game three and game four? Like do you think we're going to go game five back in okc? You think we're going to be two two? Or you think think the Pacers might have a little field house magic?

[Scott Agnes]

It is interesting to me how much is made of of the home court for the Pacers only because they shoot better on the road there. It feels like they've been systematically a better flowing offensive team in road games. Now that said, I, I do think they will get one. Just given all the elements the, the home court feel being back in their beds, I think that absolutely is a difference maker. I still believe Thunder are going to win the series outright. They just have too many weapons and the best player in this, the series, excuse me, the series, which I also lean a lot on when it comes to it. But I do. Dave, expect a split in this one just given this team's not going to leave Indy, I don't think without one win.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. Okay, I got a question for you before we wrap. Scott. There's a lot of talk about this being not as exciting as other finals. Even currently the NHL Finals. That is happening right now. And I want you to help us change that narrative because we here at the NBA Daily are convinced this is a great Finals. We know it's great basketball, but the conversation is more so for the casual fan. What is the buy in for this series going into Indiana, coming into game three, Game four, What's the storyline here that folks need to pay attention to?

[Scott Agnes]

Yeah, I totally agree. I think those that love basketball love everything about it. Certainly you want it to be a little bit closer. That's on the Pacers fault for, for not keeping it within striking distance. But I don't think there's that big a gap between the Teams. I think the sell here, first of all is whichever fan base win wins, it's going to get their first NBA title in franchise history. I'm a big guy that loves the first. Whether it's, you know, an NFL team winning for the first time or a golfer getting his first major, there's something special that there's no doubt the series lacks star power. Going back to media day, one of the big challenges in it is I don't think SGA wants to be a big voice. He was sitting, I kid you not, at the podium. He couldn't have been more disinterested. He was focused either on the game or he was acting kind of like a kid that's ready for the school bell to run. Just sit there like, I'm exhausted of this and I didn't quite understand that just because you want to, you know, entice fans. So to me, it's 1, 1, 1 basketball craves city that has devoted so much to its team, has a loyal fan base, is going to get that championship. It's. It's the anti superstar movement, right? It's two teams that probably have the top depth among any other teams out there. They do it by committee. It's teams that have both drafted well and better than that, have traded well. They know they're not in a market that's going to land the big fish, and so they've made the best of their situation. You have one coach coming from the another. Maybe a redemption story with Rick Carlisle. He won one title, but then it had been 10 years since his last playoff victory, so he maybe had a little bit more to prove on his way to surely having in hall of Fame career. So I can go on and on, but I think anyone that loves true basketball and a team committee, this is for you. I don't care how the game is presented. Just watch the basketball and you're going to be in there entertained.

[Dave DeFore]

Also, there's still compelling storylines as you just laid out, Scott. There's so much stuff happening. I mean, these are, are. These are human beings, right? Like we can find stuff to care about. Also get in on the ground floor on two really fun teams. I mean, you know, the Thunder, a decade ago, they had this worldwide audience where they picked up a lot of fans. I think they're going to do that here with this championship run that they're on. You know, they two really good brands of basketball being played and it's fun to see it play out in the finals. Scott. Agnes, guys, you can. Oh, go ahead.

[Scott Agnes]

I was just gonna say one other thing and maybe we see during Team USA how much fans and casuals can rally behind the basketball and the team and the storylines. Maybe that's why they're not as much. It's maybe. Think back. Tyrese is the only USA Olympian. Now if you're Canada, this is phenomenal storyline. You have four of them including all the, all the up and comers right here starting with Shea Nemhardt and such. Maybe that has a factor in it, but it's certainly lacking the star power but has so many other story. How about Jenny Busick on the bench, coach coaching and what she's been able to do. Like I can go on on and on here.

[Dave DeFore]

Exactly. And he does go on and on. By the way at Field House Files following one substack was on there today. Catching up, getting ready for you know what's going to be a pivotal game 311 series. So Scott, Agnes, thank you very much for joining us today. For Xena Keda, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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