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Dave Dufour
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- [01:48]
Dave Dufour
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily, presented by Ebay. I'm Dave Dufour. And coming up, we've got Tony Jones here to talk about The Philadelphia. Philadelphia 76ers, all things Sixers, and whether Joel Embiid can play 55 games this season. Yes, it's that bleak. Welcome back to the NBA daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Tony Jones. And that means it's our Philadelphia Sixers preview. Tony, the injury bug already to start the year for the Sixers. I mean, we get to media day and we're already asking questions about who's going to even be available for this team. Tony, you are moving over from Utah to the Philadelphia 76ers for us at the Athletic. What's it like covering a team that just seems to be about the injury report more than it is on the court?
- [02:43]
Tony Jones
I think the best answer right now is, I don't know, because I haven't covered them yet, but fair. I mean, they, you know, this is, this is not a one week, two week thing or a one month, two month thing. This is, this is something that's pretty Much started in February 2024 with Embiid's knee injury at Golden State. And it hasn't ended since. You know, it was, you know, the main driving force behind them starting 2 and 12 last year on en route to a 24 and 58 season. And it's just been kind of, you know, it's just been kind of continuous ever since. And it continued with, you know, obviously Jared McCain's injury, you know, where he, you know, he tore down the MCL in his knee last year and then he then, you know, he tore the ligament in his, in his thumb before, right before training camp started. So, you know, this team has consistently been not healthy. And this is a team that obviously, you know, Daryl Morey, you know, envisioned when he put together, you know, that it would compete for a championship when, you know, he put, put it together and he signed Paul George last year or last summer and, you know, it's been anything but that so far.
- [04:04]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. So like you mentioned, last year they won 24 games and it was just an unmitigated disaster. The one bright spot, Jared McCain, as you mentioned, tore his MCL and wound up missing most of his rookie year. Joel Embiid is the biggest question mark. I mean, he's the mvp. He's the best player on the team, especially when he's healthy. I mean, obviously, what does the start of the year look like for Joel Embiid? First? I mean, you know, it seems like McCain's going to come back from this injury. It's not going to be something that's going to have him out, you know, beyond Thanksgiving, probably. Paul George, not sure if he's going to play. But none of this matters if Embiid's not out there.
- [04:44]
Tony Jones
Right. You know, the thing with Embiid, you know, I don't, you know, it's something to the point where, you know, it's hard to pinpoint and it's hard to, you can't really definitively say. What we know is that, you know, the signs are positive. So far, you know, he's been on the court, he's been running up and down. He's been playing five on five. When you, when we saw him after practice last weekend, he, you know, he didn't have the bulky knee brace that, you know, he dealt with, you know, last year. He displays some Athleticism. And, you know, just in playing around, you know, I saw him, you know, bounce the ball off the floor and dunk it off and off and alley oop, you know, I've seen him, you know, after practice, after a full workout, you know, still going through a shooting workout when, you know, normally after practice, after a workout, after a game. Last year, you know, he was wrapped in ice, you know, like he's the mummy. So, you know, those are the signs that are, that are positive. The, the ambiguous part of it is that, you know, Joel and the Sixers and the Sixers medical team, they will not commit to, you know, a hard return date to, to where he's going to play. So, you know, what we're, you know, what we're wondering is, you know, is he in fact going to be ready on opening night? He did not play in the, in the two preseason games in Abu Dhabi, but he was, you know, a part of the festivities. He spoke to the crowd in Abu Dhabi before game one, he and Jalen Brunson of the New York Knicks, you know, so he made the trip out to Abu Dhabi, you know, which is, you know, which is a positive sign that, you know, he made two 15 hour flights with the knee, you know, so you, you add two and two together, you add four and four together, you're like, okay, he's in a better place than he was certainly at this point last year. But the question is, you know, is he going to be ready for opening night? And then the question is if he is ready for opening night, how many games does he play? What we saw in the first two preseason games is that if you can make as close to a definitive, you know, a definitive judgment is that, you know, this team, it needs its guys.
- [07:22]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [07:23]
Tony Jones
Because there are some holes in this roster to where it's like, okay, the team needs the sum of his parts. It needs Paul George to play. This roster needs Paul George to play. It needs Joel Embiid to play in these, Tyrese Maxey to play. And, you know, if you're going through a stretch where two of those three are not playing, it's going to be hard to make up for some of the other shortcomings of the roster in other ways. So I think that this team is dependent on how many games it's able to get from either all of its big three or either two of his three big three.
- [08:00]
Dave Dufour
Last year, we never really got to see the version of the team that they had put together. They signed Paul George, they got Kelly Oubre, they had Made a lot of moves that I liked, but we never got a chance to see that team. And this year's team is different. They did make some changes. What do you think is the biggest change that they've made between last year and this year, you know, when we're looking ahead to the 25, 26 season?
- [08:21]
Tony Jones
Well, I think the biggest change that they, you know, that they made between last year and this year was made at the deadline, which is they got Quentin Grimes, right? And, you know, he's. He immediately, you know, made his mark as a starter. He immediately, you know, made his mark as a guy who could go out and score the basketball where, where previously and his two stops in, in Dallas and in New York. We weren't sure, you know, we were sure that he was a, a good role player or a good three and D guy. But, you know, he sold some scoring chops in that last month, in the month of March that, you know, he, he hadn't displayed elsewhere. Now the question is this, you know, is this just a guy that's, that's going out and scoring 20 a night in March, or is this a guy that can really score 20 a night when teams are really trying? Because, you know, in March, the Sixes weren't trying. They weren't trying to win games. They were trying to lose every game possible. And, you know, a lot of the teams that they played in the month of March and April, you know, they weren't really trying to. Oh, yeah, it's fake basketball, right? So, you know, there are a lot of people who go on insanity runs in the month of March. The question with Quenton Grimes is, was that scoring. Was those scoring chops real or, you know, was this just, you know, a guy going off in the, in the month of March? So in the Sixes needed to be the former. They needed to be real because they're going to need his, his shooting. They're going to need the, the. The rim pressure that he showed off, the dribble. They're going to need, you know, his ability to defend the perimeter with size. They're going to need his scalability from, you know, in terms of being able to kind of play at the one, being able to play a little bit of two and also being. Being able to play a little bit a small forward. So I think that that's the biggest, that's the biggest change. I really do like the addition of trending Wofford, you know, in the free agency pool, you know, guy, he's, he's a, you know, A six foot seven guy. Really, really close friends with Tyrese Maxey, but he's a 6 foot 7 guy that, that can kind of do some unique things as a power forward in terms of running your offense, running an offense and initiating an offense. And he's a really good passer, which is important because I think that the rest of the roster, a lot of the roster lacks dynamic passing, you know, so I think that Wofford's going to end up being an important part of what, what the Sixers do.
- [11:10]
Dave Dufour
I want to go back to Grimes real quick because he signed the, the qualifying offer, you know, so clearly the Sixers and he don't necessarily agree on whether or not the, the basketball was fake in, in March and April. So I, I think that that's like an important thing to watch this season. Like, do you worry about, you know, when these. We don't see a lot of guys sign qualifying offers, Tony. Like, I mean, this is kind of an interesting wrinkle for this team this season.
- [11:36]
Tony Jones
Well, okay, so before we get to that, should I mention Vijay is the big. One of the biggest changes?
- [11:44]
Dave Dufour
Why not? I mean, listen, that's.
- [11:46]
Tony Jones
Or like, do we. We got a dedicated question to V.J.
- [11:50]
Dave Dufour
Well, no, no, no, no. This is the perfect time to talk about Vijay Edgecombe.
- [11:53]
Tony Jones
I mean, you know, that's a question. But I want to.
- [11:56]
Dave Dufour
How often does has, you know, players the caliber of the Sixers, right. Wind up with this high of a, a lottery pick? It doesn't happen often. And, you know, I mean, we could go back to the warriors and they drafted James Wiseman. I, I'm. My assumption is people feel a little bit better about this Edgecom pick. Talk to me about him.
- [12:17]
Tony Jones
Well, I, I think that he has a, He's a guy who has a star. He has a star outcome. If he hits, you know, 100 of his ceiling, sure.
- [12:28]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [12:29]
Tony Jones
You know, he's, you know, right away a 5% athlete. You know, he's a guy who, I think right away can play minutes at the NBA level. I think he's capable 20 to 25 minutes a night in a competitive NBA situation right now. I think that there's a chance that, that he's, you know, an open and nice starter. If enough people, if enough people don't play, like, if there's no Joel Embiid, if there's no Paul George, if there's no trend in Wofford, I mean, we might be looking at Vijay Escomas as your starting shooting guard with, you know, Quentin Grimes playing the three on opening night. So, you know, there's. There's a lot of things to like about him. You know, his teammates, you know, they think the world of him. You know, they, you know, Kelly Oubre said that he thinks that, you know, Vijay has the highest upside of anybody in the class. I would probably disagree with that because I think. I think Cooper Flag is going to be special, but I see where Kelly's coming from. Like, I think that Vijay Escom has a chance, you know, to one day be an all Star in. At the NBA level. You know, he's. He's super athletic, he's very smart, super, super, super competitive dude. Plays bigger than his height, defends bigger than his height, you know, and, you know, he's got flaws in this game. Like, jump shot is going to have to come a long way and he's going to have to tighten the handle up. But, you know, in terms of, in terms of upside, he, He's. He's got a ton of it. And, and he's a guy that, that should be able to play for 40 Sixers from day one.
- [14:22]
Dave Dufour
How much of that played into their negotiations with Quentin Grimes? You think, having a lot a player like that in house, and do you think that that could affect a potential pivot that this team makes this, like, you know, depending on what happens this season, you keep. We keep saying, like, their guys have to play, their guys have to play. You know, if we're. If we're in February and nobody's been playing, I mean, you know, do you just start to say, hey, maybe this. This is the future we need to be thinking about?
- [14:49]
Tony Jones
Well, you know, that's the thing. I don't think the Daryl Morey can. Can think along those lines because I don't know if, if this, if the Sixers have to pivot and they have to, you know, pivot for the second straight year, I mean, then, you know, what happens with Maury and what happens with. Right coach Nick Nurse, you know, I think that those two are in a position where they have to win this year, where winning is important to show that, you know, this ship is sailing in the right direction. You know, I, I think that Daryl on, on some levels, you know, knows that as well. I mean, I don't think that he's gonna, obviously, he's not. Obviously not gonna publicly be like, yeah, I got a winner else.
- [15:35]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [15:36]
Tony Jones
You know, publicly he did say, we know that, you know, we have to win. You know, we know that, you know, we have to show improve, and we're anxious to show improve that we can win games. And, you know, we know that, you know, essentially talk is cheap. We can't just go out and talk about winning games. We have to go out and actually, you know, win the games, you know, so, you know, I, I think, you know, with, with Grimes, you know, do you want to commit four years and $60 million or $65 million to a point in Grimes when not only you have Vijay Escom on a rookie deal, right. You also have Jared McCain on a rookie deal. Both of those guys really have a chance to be dynamic guys. Jerick McCain has a chance to be really, really, really good offensively, and they're different enough players that Vijay etchem and Jared McCain can absolutely, you know, coexist in the same backcourt, you know, as they, as they grow and as they mature. So if you're Daryl Morey, you know, do you want to commit all of this money to acquaintance Grimes when you have these two, you know, dynamic young pups that are coming up and, you know, you have to, you know, you have to give them the Runway to play.
- [17:06]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [17:06]
Tony Jones
The conundrum for Daryl More is I believe that he has to win this year, and I also believe that you ain't winning games without Quentin Grimes, or at least the marked version of Quentin Grimes. So, you know, I think that, you know, they're going to have to figure out a way to develop Vijay escom, develop Jarrett McCain, while also giving Tyrese Maxey the Runway to be an all star or possibly, you know, try to have an all NBA level season while also getting Quentin Grimes 25 to 30 minutes a night. Because you're going to need that versatility in that shot making in order. In. In order to win games. So, yeah, I don't know how easy it's going to be to, To. To give the Runway to those four guys that they need while also, you know, fostering a winning environment.
- [18:04]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, they have talent, but again, it's getting the talent on the court. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back to talk about expectations. And I want Tony to give me some predictions.
- [18:23]
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- [18:49]
Tony Jones
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- [20:19]
Dave Dufour
All right, Tony. I wanted expectations for this team. You know, it's. It's tough because we. It's the injury thing. It's always the injury thing. And it's two guys now. It's not just embiid. It's embiid and Paul George. What are your expectations for Paul George this season?
- [20:36]
Tony Jones
You know, I think the hope is, is I think if you gave the Sixers true serum, I think that they would hope that Paul George plays 65 to 70 games this season. My question there, I have two questions with Paul George. Number one is, can he play 65 to 70 games this season? That's a big question. Number two, my question with Paul George is, is he washed? That was. That's my real question with Paul George. Last year he did not play well.
- [21:13]
Dave Dufour
No.
- [21:14]
Tony Jones
He didn't have his usual burst. He didn't have his usual athleticism. He didn't have any pop off the dribble. He couldn't get by anybody. Everything that he had, you know, most of the shots that he had to take were, you know, contested, whether they be lawn twos, long threes or whatever. And the question is, was that a one off? Was that just Paul George, you know, kind of being hurt all year? He played 41 games so he missed half the schedule. Was this. Was that, you know, him, you know, a byproduct of him being hurt and never getting into a rhythm? Or was that. Is that, you know, Paul George being 34 years old now, being 35 years old and actually hitting the cliff, you know, overnight. Two years ago he was an all star. He was really, really, really good two years ago with the Clippers, you know, so, you know, he went from, I mean, you know, he went from all star, all NBA level guy to. To really not playing well. And, you know, the question is, can he bounce back? So, you know, there are some things that are imperative for Paul. Number one, you know, it's imperative that he get healthy. Number two, it's imperative that he get 100% healthy so that he can stay healthy. You know, so he's not, you know, in and out of the lineup. You know, the Sixers can't use him.
- [22:44]
Dave Dufour
They.
- [22:45]
Tony Jones
They need him in the lineup.
- [22:46]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Tony Jones
You know, I think the Sixers can still be competitive if they have their entire team without Joel Embiid. And Paul George is there and Tyrese Maxey is there and Jared McCain is there. I think Jerick McCain is going to be a heck of an offensive player. And if he's healthy, you know, he's a guy that can, you know, if Joel Embiid is not there for. For the most part. And you need one of these. You need these three guys to all average. You need three guys to. To all give you in between. 20, 20 points a night. You know, Jared can give you 18 to 20 points a night.
- [23:25]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [23:25]
Tony Jones
If needed. So, you know, but Paul's got to tie it together. You know, they don't have, you know, their, their wing play right now consists of three guys. It consists of Paul George, it consists of Kelly Oubre, and it can. And it consists of Justin Edwards.
- [23:47]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [23:47]
Tony Jones
And Justin Edwards basically has not hit a shot this postseason yet. I mean, this preseason yet. And he essentially didn't hit a shot in summer league either, you know, so.
- [23:58]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [23:59]
Tony Jones
You know, how much are we counting on Justin Edwards? You know, maybe you can scale, you know, Paul George up because Trenton Wofford is there. So, you know, you have him playing a lot of power forward. He. Wofford's beauty. The beauty of Wofford is he can still handle the ball and he can still do a lot of things that a wing can do, except that he's in a power forwards body. But that means Paul has to be healthy because that means Paul's got to chase threes Around.
- [24:27]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [24:28]
Tony Jones
You know, so there's a lot of things that have to be. There's a lot of things that have to be answered by Nick Nurse. There's a lot of questions that have to be answered. How this roster should be used and what the, what's the best way to roster should be used. But he's got to have the guys to make the data to make the decisions, you know, so it all comes back to like one thing no matter what the circle is.
- [24:51]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. I mean on paper again, they, they have all this talent. It's just get that talent on the court is why they're so hard. I mean they're hard to even talk about in the future sets. Right. Like how do you predict anything? Much less. I mean you literally do not know what the lineup is going to be on opening night. Right. That's what this team is and it's every single season. Is there anybody on the roster you see getting traded this year? You know, if they, let's say things are going great, they think they got got a move they can make or things are going poorly and they, they think they need to make a move, who's the guy that's going to get moved?
- [25:28]
Tony Jones
Well, I would have said Queen Grimes, but now he's got no trade clause.
- [25:31]
Dave Dufour
That's right, no trade. Yeah.
- [25:32]
Tony Jones
So, you know, I mean this I would have. Here, here's the funny thing, here's the irony thing, right? Like I'm coming over for the Utah Jazz. From the Utah Jazz, the player in the NBA that this roster most needs plays for the Utah Jazz. You know what I'm talking about?
- [25:57]
Dave Dufour
Lowry Marketing.
- [25:58]
Tony Jones
Yes.
- [25:59]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I think that would help them quite a bit. Yeah.
- [26:03]
Tony Jones
This roster had a seven foot power forward who shoots 43% on eight threes a night and is also, I'm sorry. And is also a live threat and also. Oh my God, Joel's not, Joel Embiid's not here. Let me just play Lowry Marketing at the center spot and just spread everything out like it would be great. Like. So if you're Daryl Murray and you have the Clippers 28 first round pick from the James Harden, the Clippers 29 first round swap. Do you try to put together.
- [26:40]
Dave Dufour
Those are looking like really good picks too.
- [26:43]
Tony Jones
All those are looking like great picks.
- [26:45]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [26:46]
Tony Jones
Let me, let me, let me, let me repeat this. The, the, the, the Sixers have the Clippers 28 first round pick unprotected, but they also have the swap in 2029.
- [27:01]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [27:01]
Tony Jones
Unprotected. And you know those guys Are going. That current core is going to age out.
- [27:10]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. They won't be there then. Yeah, yeah. Definitely not.
- [27:13]
Tony Jones
It's. I mean, those are. Those are some premiums. That's actually some premium. Pretty good deal at this point.
- [27:22]
Dave Dufour
Now, would you do that? Let me ask you, would you do that? Regardless of whether Embiid is having a healthy season, you just think, get marketing and. And you can get to the playoffs.
- [27:31]
Tony Jones
The only way they can do it is trading, by trading Paul Joyce.
- [27:35]
Dave Dufour
That's the only way to make the money work. And you probably have to find a third team to take Paul George. You know, maybe that's one of those scenarios where it's like the Miami Heat, you know, or some. One of these teams that. That you can convince, or maybe they just want a guy like Paul George.
- [27:50]
Tony Jones
Like Paul George. Doesn't make sense for the Utah Jazz.
- [27:54]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, no, no, no. Definitely not.
- [27:57]
Tony Jones
You would have to. You know, that's the other thing. Like, if I'm trading for Lowry Marketing, I kind of want Paul George on the team.
- [28:07]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [28:08]
Tony Jones
Because, you know, if I have Paul George on the team, it's like, all right, Paul George, Tyrese Maxey, lower marketing Angel Embiid.
- [28:16]
Dave Dufour
It's a crazy lineup.
- [28:17]
Tony Jones
Yes. And then. Then all of a sudden, you can, you know, you can kind of cushion if Joel. Because that's the.
- [28:27]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [28:27]
Tony Jones
The. The question with the Sixers right now is if Joel Emble plays 41 games, can they win enough for the other 41 games?
- [28:37]
Dave Dufour
Right. For it to matter.
- [28:39]
Tony Jones
For. For those 41 games that he plays. To matter. And, you know, that's the. That's the question. How good is this team when it doesn't have the sum of his parts? That's going to be the big question. So, you know, I kind of want to see the Sixers. I want. I'm most curious to see how the Sixers look with, you know, tyrese Maxey, Jared McCain, Trenton Wofford and Quentin Grimes. But without Joel Embiid. But also without Paul George.
- [29:16]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [29:16]
Tony Jones
How good is that team? Because to me, that team is going to determine what the Sixers ceiling will be for whatever games that Paul George.
- [29:29]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [29:29]
Tony Jones
And Joel Embiid do play.
- [29:33]
Dave Dufour
Because those are the guys that you probably can depend on this season.
- [29:36]
Tony Jones
Those are the guys you could probably depend on for 70 to 80 games. Like, you know, Tyrese Maxey has, you know, traditionally been durable. Quentin Grimes has traditionally been durable. Jerry McCain has traditionally actually not been durable.
- [29:52]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [29:53]
Tony Jones
You know, those are flu. To me, those. Those are. They've both been Fluke injuries.
- [29:58]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [29:58]
Tony Jones
You know, but, you know, when. When you look at. When. When you look at what this Sixers team is going to be, you know, it's got to be, what's the Sixers team in a meat and potatoes of the season? And how many games can that Sixers team win as opposed to when Joel Embiid is there and when Paul George is there and everybody's there and everybody's healthy. You would hope that if the Sixers make the playoffs, you have that team, obviously, because that's the team that. That can win, you know, at the highest level, but you also want the team that can win. You also. You also need a team that can win without those two.
- [30:42]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. All right, give me the prediction. What's. What's the most realistic outcome that. That you imagine here? Is it another disaster or does everybody save their jobs for another season?
- [30:55]
Tony Jones
Jesus Christ. I don't know. All right, I'm gonna say so. Do you have a proverbial weapon to my head?
- [31:05]
Dave Dufour
I mean. No, I'm not a violent person, Tony.
- [31:08]
Tony Jones
Okay. That's right. You know, the weapon can be your index.
- [31:13]
Dave Dufour
Sure. Metaphorical. Yeah.
- [31:15]
Tony Jones
Metaphorical.
- [31:16]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [31:17]
Tony Jones
Metaphorically. This is what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say Joel Embiid plays 55 games.
- [31:22]
Dave Dufour
Okay.
- [31:23]
Tony Jones
I'm going to say that Paul George plays 68 games.
- [31:27]
Dave Dufour
Okay.
- [31:28]
Tony Jones
I think I'm being generous. Kind and generous here. Yeah, yeah, we're going to say that. Okay. We're going to say that Jerry McCain comes back on November 5th, and, you know, he plays 70 games.
- [31:43]
Dave Dufour
Cool. Okay. They're having a healthy year.
- [31:46]
Tony Jones
Yeah. That means they're having a healthy year.
- [31:49]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [31:53]
Tony Jones
This is. So now I'm going through the Eastern Conference. I think the Orlando. I think the New York Knicks are the best team in the Eastern Conference.
- [32:00]
Dave Dufour
Okay. Cavs are better.
- [32:03]
Tony Jones
I think the Cleveland Cavaliers are the second. Well, New York and Cleveland, they're one two conference. Orlando, I think, is the third best team in the Eastern Conference. I think that Atlanta is the fourth best team in the Eastern Conference.
- [32:18]
Dave Dufour
You have over Milwaukee.
- [32:21]
Tony Jones
I have them over Milwaukee. So, you know, now you've got Milwaukee. I think Milwaukee is going to be really good. I still think Indiana is going to be really good because Rick Carlisle is.
- [32:34]
Dave Dufour
The way they play. Yeah.
- [32:36]
Tony Jones
And.
- [32:36]
Dave Dufour
Yep.
- [32:37]
Tony Jones
You know, and I think Andrew Nemhardt is going to be really good at the point. I do think that they're going to be hurt by losing Myles Turner.
- [32:44]
Dave Dufour
Sure.
- [32:44]
Tony Jones
But I think that they can make up for Tyrese Maxey better than they can make up for losing Miles Turner, Tyres.
- [32:51]
Dave Dufour
Halliburton, but.
- [32:52]
Tony Jones
Yeah, I meant Halliburton.
- [32:54]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
- [32:56]
Tony Jones
You know what I mean?
- [32:56]
Dave Dufour
I know.
- [32:58]
Tony Jones
So, you know, you've got Milwaukee, Boston, Indiana. That's seven. The Miami Heat are going to be there in some capacity. That's. That's eight. What am I missing? Who am I missing that?
- [33:12]
Dave Dufour
How do you feel about the Bulls?
- [33:14]
Tony Jones
I don't think they stink. Yeah.
- [33:18]
Dave Dufour
Toronto. Toronto will be better.
- [33:21]
Tony Jones
Toronto will be better.
- [33:22]
Dave Dufour
They've got better players.
- [33:23]
Tony Jones
They've got better players.
- [33:26]
Dave Dufour
So it's. It's an easier east at the top because of Boston and Indiana, but it is not actually that much of an easier east overall. I'm glad that you brought that up, Tony. So.
- [33:37]
Tony Jones
So really is actually better than people give it credit for.
- [33:42]
Dave Dufour
Is 55 Games of Joel Embiid enough for them to be in the top six in the East? That's the question.
- [33:48]
Tony Jones
Right. Then that. Then they need 70 games from Tyrese Maxey and Paul George.
- [33:56]
Dave Dufour
And you think 55 would get it done. 55 from Embiid?
- [33:59]
Tony Jones
They win enough games if you get 55 from Embiid. But that's the other thing. It can't be Joel Embiid from last year where he limped around for.
- [34:10]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [34:10]
Tony Jones
In games. You know that Joel embiid only averaged 23 points and 8 rebounds a game. Those were. Those were his worst numbers. Those were his worst numbers since, you know, Joel Embiid actually became Joel Embiid.
- [34:26]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [34:27]
Tony Jones
So they don't need 34 points and 1112 rebounds a game. Joel Embiid, but they need, like, 28 and 10. 28 and 11.
- [34:35]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [34:36]
Tony Jones
You know, they need a Joel Embiid. That's. That's still really, really, really.
- [34:39]
Dave Dufour
He needs to be the best player on the court when he's out there.
- [34:41]
Tony Jones
Yeah. So, you know, if they get 55 games from Joel Embiid, but you get 70 games from, you know, the rest of the roster in some capacity is. To me, I still think your ceiling is. Is probably four. I still think Cleveland, New York, and. And Orlando, as long as Orlando stays healthy, because they always have some issues as well. I think those three are still organically better, but I can see them getting. I can see them getting as high as fourth under those pretenses.
- [35:20]
Dave Dufour
That feels crazy to me.
- [35:21]
Tony Jones
I just.
- [35:22]
Dave Dufour
I can't see it, Tony. I cannot even, like, even with 55 games of Embiid, I just don't think it's enough.
- [35:30]
Tony Jones
So if you have 55 games of Embiid, and you have 70 games of Paul George and Tyrese Maxey. What's the ceiling for you?
- [35:37]
Dave Dufour
I mean, it's the play in. You know, I have him in that. In that somewhere. 7, 8, 9, 10. And to me, you start asking, is it worth it for. For that, you know, to get out of there if they could squeeze into the playoffs, you know, and Embiid is totally healthy. I think you. You say, yeah, that this was a good gamble, but it just. 55 games of your best player just is not enough unless you have. I don't think that they can make up for what they're missing with Embiid in the same way they can make up for it when Paul George isn't out there. Right. They just don't have that, like, even by committee, they don't have anybody who can do the things that he does and create, I mean, the gravity that he's got. Right? Like, nobody on that team is as scary as Joel Embiid when he's healthy.
- [36:25]
Tony Jones
So the problem is you're not getting 70 from Joel, right? Like, you're not getting that, like, 55 is like, we're. We're. We're getting close to. We're. We're either getting close to ceiling or we're at ceiling there.
- [36:40]
Dave Dufour
If they, if they can have a Clippers, like, season like they did last year, where they, you know, like, you know, Kawhi doesn't come until later, they are pretty good, but he takes them to this next level. But, you know, that required close to an all star season from Norm Powell. Obviously, James Harden had a really good year.
- [37:02]
Tony Jones
So that means Paul George and Tyrese Maxey are both all NBA players.
- [37:07]
Dave Dufour
Basically. Right. They would have to be all stars for sure. And then you worry about, like, the defense that Joel Embiid brings gets overlooked a lot.
- [37:18]
Tony Jones
So with the knee, I think that that's what's hurt him the most. People don't realize Joel Embiid, you know, people, you know, obviously Joel scoring was. Was so ridiculous that, you know, you look at the scoring or whatever and you look at. But his advantage over Nikola Jokic was an offense.
- [37:39]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [37:40]
Tony Jones
Like, his advantage when you were, you know, in those Nikola Jokic conversations was that Joel Embiid was pretty much the best drop big in the league other than Rudy Gobert.
- [37:52]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, he was a monster. A monster defender and. And could just do more stuff than. Than Rudy too, by the way.
- [37:59]
Tony Jones
Rudy offensively, right. He couldn't guard the perimeter like Rudy did. Oh, yeah, yeah. But in terms of like, drop big and, you know, you know, forcing teams to live in the mid range and keeping in. And his actual rim protection, like, he wasn't a shot blocker, he was a rim protector.
- [38:19]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [38:19]
Tony Jones
Like, Joel Embiid was a phenomenal defender in his prime and nobody talked about it.
- [38:28]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [38:28]
Tony Jones
And the, the. The Joel Embiid I saw last year was a fraction of that defensively.
- [38:35]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. That, to me, is the biggest problem that they've got, is that they missed that level of defense from him. And I just don't think 55 games of. Of the other stuff is enough to make up for.
- [38:46]
Tony Jones
If he plays 55, that means he missing 27. Sure, that's a pretty good ratio, but.
- [38:52]
Dave Dufour
How many of those 55 are they going to win?
- [38:55]
Tony Jones
Right, Right.
- [38:55]
Dave Dufour
So you got to win.
- [38:57]
Tony Jones
You've got to win 80%. 40. You've got to win 40 of those 55. And then the 27, let's say you lose 20 of them, which is crazy. You're still 47 and 30.
- [39:11]
Dave Dufour
Right, right, right.
- [39:13]
Tony Jones
That's crazy.
- [39:14]
Dave Dufour
Anyway, all right, we gotta go. We. We could do this all day. Tony, man, I'm really excited that you're going to be covering the Sixers, number one, because, you know, hey, the Jazz have been. They've been collecting assets the last couple years, so it means, you know, you get to be a little more relevant.
- [39:29]
Tony Jones
It's been a. It's been a slow wind with the Jazz.
- [39:33]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, yeah. So we're going to go over here. You know, Tony and I, we do a podcast about the Jazz called Game Notes. Had really good music, but so we're going to get a lot more Tony Jones on the show this year. Everybody go and read Tony over at the Athletic. He's gonna be covering the Sixers for us there all year long. Tony, we'll talk to you soon. Everybody, thank you for listening. Go and, you know, rate review, like, subscribe, do all those things in all the places. Thank you very much. We'll be back tomorrow with more team previews.
- [40:25]
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- [40:51]
Tony Jones
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- [40:55]
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- [41:24]
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