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- [00:00]
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- [02:06]
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- [02:45]
Dave Defore
I.
- [02:46]
Zach Harper
Wonder how many people have ever left the meeting. Once it starts recording, it always fascinates me.
- [02:50]
Trey Edwards
Well, I like when it gives you the notification.
- [02:53]
Zach Harper
Yeah. All right. Welcome to the Athletic NBA Show Monday.
- [02:58]
Mo Dakhil
Through on the Athletic Podcast Network.
- [03:04]
Zach Harper
Bruh.
- [03:06]
Trey Edwards
New York strip steak. Ooh. This is the basketball buds. Brazy beef short ribs.
- [03:12]
Zach Harper
Yay.
- [03:13]
Trey Edwards
Hey, gal. With Zach Harper and your favorite athletic writer. Get mad at me, bro.
- [03:18]
Dave Defore
I'm gone.
- [03:23]
Zach Harper
Welcome to the basket buds edition of the Athletic NBA show podcast on the Athletic Podcast Network. I'm your host Zach Harper. We got Dave Defore producing. We got Trevon Edwards, J. King Modakiel and we have what I well, this was yesterday, so that doesn't make any sense. What I was about to say yesterday I called championships eve because after two dominant games, maybe at best, if you want to sell Miami side of this one and a half dominant games in Miami. But after two dominant games in Miami, Denver is on the cusp of of winning the championship tonight. As we will we will head to Denver for game five with the Nuggets up three one. And I I feel the same way about tonight as I did going into game seven of Celtics Heat. I will roll with history on this because the odds are so overwhelming now. There has been one team in NBA history out of 36 tries going into tonight in which the team up 31 has ended up losing. That was the warriors obviously, in 2016 with the Cavs coming back. As much as I love Jimmy Butler, as much as I believe in Jimmy Butler, he is not 2016 LeBron James. I don't think Bam out of bio is 2016 Kyrie Irving. I don't think. I don't know who would that be?
- [04:43]
J. King
Duncan Robinson might be Duncan Robinson might.
- [04:46]
Zach Harper
Be 2016 Kevin love some wiggle inside. I don't know about that.
- [04:51]
Trey Edwards
I like that she went. You didn't even go. Kevin Love might go back to 26. It was just. That's not even an option.
- [04:56]
Zach Harper
Kevin Love had his one game and that's about it. I think we we've got the Nuggets who just. You know what you. What's interesting about this to me was it's not even like surviving the Jokic minutes. It's not even the. Or the. The Yokage minutes off the floor. Right? It's not the oh my God, how did they win when Jokic and Jamal Murray had bad shooting nights? It's. It's the defense. Like the defense for the Nuggets going into Miami was Exactly what it needed to be. They. They. I don't think they played good defense in the first two games. I just don't like. They give up a lot of, a lot of open looks. A lot of easy shots that Miami missed in game one, they hit in game two. There's your win. But other than that, like to give up 94 and I know it's slow pace, but 94 and 95 points respectively in games three and four, and they went from 30 uncontested three point looks in game one. 30 uncontested three point looks given up in game two, down to 25 in game three and 19, only 19 of them in game four. That's the change in defense that they needed to. To truly separate themselves from Miami in this one. And mo. I. Look, there have been a lot of adjustments that have been made. Miami has thrown just about every kind of defensive look you can throw at Denver. And even though Denver's offensive rating has been high in this series, I still think like Miami's done a pretty good job overall of defending them. But the defensive adjustments that, that Denver made in slowing down those looks for Miami, that's the reason they're on the cusp of winning the championship tonight.
- [06:35]
Trey Edwards
Yeah, for sure. I mean, they've just basically said, we're not doubling, we're not leaving shooters.
- [06:40]
Dave Defore
We're not.
- [06:40]
Zach Harper
We're not.
- [06:41]
Trey Edwards
I mean, let's be honest here. If Max Drew just has a decent game in game one, this is probably a two, two series, you know, or, or, or the whole complexion changes maybe in the way everything goes. But I, it's. They just have completely locked it down since they went to Miami. They just said, we're not doubling, Jimmy, we're not doubling. Bam. We're not. We think we could defend those guys pretty much one on one and stay home with the shooters. And that's essentially what's happened, you know, where you're not finding a lot of open opportunities for Duncan Robinson to get a look. Max Drew, who shot it incredibly poor even when he was wide open, is, is still, you know, not getting clean looks. Caleb Martin isn't the Caleb Martin we saw when it was Eastern Conference run through these. The Eastern Conference teams. And I think it's been a struggle across the board for everybody else. And it's like there's just small pockets and they're not being able to take advantage of. And there's not enough of those opportunities for them to make up for it. Because when you talk about Denver's offense like ye.
- [07:39]
Zach Harper
Yeah.
- [07:39]
Trey Edwards
Miami's done the best they could possibly do to defend this team. It's just. This team is really freaking good. Like, there's only so many things you can do at a certain point. You just got to throw your hands up and be like, man, we tried.
- [07:51]
Zach Harper
Right?
- [07:51]
Trey Edwards
Yeah, it's like.
- [07:52]
Zach Harper
Like, that's. Yeah, like, it's. It's. It's.
- [07:54]
Trey Edwards
You know, it's just like, all right, well, I did all the coverage you wanted me to do.
- [07:58]
Zach Harper
Yeah, but you're offense, and they still.
- [08:01]
Trey Edwards
Found an open guy in the corner underneath the rim.
- [08:04]
J. King
And. And that's the thing. Miami is probably the best team in the league, and Eric Spolzer is probably the best coach in the league at confusing you, at throwing so much stuff at you that you can't diagnose it correctly, at just junking the game up in a way that people just can't read the game. Jokic is the best at processing all of that in the entire league right now. And his ability to handle that and Jamal Murray's ability to limit turnovers and throw as many assists as he had on top of the scoring that he's done. Those two guys are just playing the game at such a crisp level that there's, no matter what you try, they can find the answer. And that. That's the most impressive part to me is, like, this Miami team is so tough to stay solid against, and they've been able to do it well.
- [08:57]
Zach Harper
But here's the thing about that, Jay, is I think. I think they've done a good job of disrupting Denver's offense with all those different looks. But when you can't capitalize by scoring on the other end of the floor, then it becomes just like, eventually Denver's going to score and figure this out, and instead of putting pressure on them to, you know, get a stop with the zone looks, get a stop, and then go back the other way and hit a three or score the rim or whatever, because they can't answer with that. It buys Denver time to figure it out to where then, like, maybe you get two, three stops in a row, but you haven't scored on any of those stops. And so now Denver scores on the next two or three possessions, and now it looks like, oh, you up. You didn't get this. You didn't get this right, but it. You did for a little bit. It's just if, like, Trey, if you can't put the pressure on the other team, and I think a big part of that is just Jimmy and Bam are not scoring at the rip. Like, these are two crazy, athletic, strong dudes who are not scoring at the rim. And I think that has ended up being the biggest pain for them offensively because it puts zero pressure on their interior defense.
- [10:06]
Dave Defore
Also, I just think the Heat have just ran into the most prepared team they've seen all year. Yeah, you know, if you look at the numbers, Jimmy was having exceptional, exceptional first three rounds of the playoffs, you know, and then his numbers are down. Whether he's exhausted, whether, you know, they're throwing bodies at him, you know, it's not the same. And clearly you can see that the Nuggets are capitalizing off of it. You know what I mean? Like, this is a make or miss league. For even the Heat to even be in a game, they have to make their three pointers. And even still, you look down and. And Jimmy's kind of spotty in certain places where he may have 16, he may have 12, even him and Bam. Scoring 20 is just not going to get it done against this exceptional team. Like, you know it, man. Just. Just overall, like, I mean, this. This is Denver's year. And respect to Mike, Michael Malone and. And. And his staff and the front office and everybody, you know, I mean, even with Michael Porter Jr struggling the way he is, you know, Christian Braun is, like, stepping in, you know, I mean, like, just uncharacteristic. God, Reggie Jackson getting a couple minutes, like, anybody. And I mean, shout out.
- [11:17]
Zach Harper
That was the biggest upset of it. Yeah, that was the biggest upset of the final so far. Like, once you survive the. The Reggie Jackson minutes, you don't deserve or the other team does not deserve to win the title. I don't care how many minutes. It was just forfeited.
- [11:30]
Trey Edwards
Forfeit.
- [11:30]
Zach Harper
It's done. Just.
- [11:31]
Trey Edwards
You can't counter.
- [11:32]
Zach Harper
You can't counter with, like, well, we got Zeller out there. You can't. Like, that's.
- [11:35]
Dave Defore
Who would have known. Who would have known that Reggie Jackson was going to get a ring before Chris Paul, Bro. Or wrestle or Russell Westbrook?
- [11:42]
Zach Harper
I know. That's. That's tough, man.
- [11:45]
Dave Defore
It is so funny.
- [11:48]
J. King
It is so funny. It is so funny. Looking back on March now and how this Nuggets team played and how Jokic was defending, they were so bad that Jokic, like, just totally didn't drop out of the MVP race, but it was like embiid. Embiid is clearly, clearly the option here. The Nugget, like, they were just losing to everybody. They lost to the Spurs.
- [12:12]
Zach Harper
They just. Yeah, they just didn't give a right. Like, we got this one seed.
- [12:17]
Trey Edwards
They literally were just like, ah, we're.
- [12:19]
Zach Harper
Gonna make sure we're healthy for the playoffs. Like, we feel pretty good about it.
- [12:23]
Trey Edwards
We'll be out there.
- [12:25]
Zach Harper
Yeah. And.
- [12:26]
Trey Edwards
And if you give us a game, sure.
- [12:28]
Zach Harper
They look, they look at the playing tournament, they're like, all right, what it's gonna be the Wolves or the Lakers or the Thunder? Like, I think we're good. The Mavericks, we'll be fine.
- [12:36]
J. King
I think we're all right. They basically had the one seed locked up anyway. But it really is hysterical. Like, this is. This has been such a locked in playoff run.
- [12:45]
Zach Harper
And their biggest competition was John Morant waving a gun around on social media. And, like, I think they saw that. They're like, okay, we could take the next month and a half off. We're good. Oh, man.
- [12:56]
J. King
Good.
- [12:57]
Trey Edwards
But it was just. It was just funny because while that's going on, the rest of us are like, oh, my God, the sky is falling in Denver. It's like, what's gonna happen? And all of that. And then it's like, yeah, they got to the finals of 12 and 3. Like, yeah, how many.
- [13:12]
Zach Harper
How many teams have flip the switch on for the start of the regular season, flip the switch off for the last month and a half of the season, and then flipped it back on for the playoffs? Like, that's, that's. It was harder to do than. Than being bad and like, we're gonna flip this switch in April. Like, we'll be good.
- [13:27]
Trey Edwards
It was almost like they were just like, let's just see if it works. Yeah.
- [13:31]
Zach Harper
We tried the other thing before and it didn't work. Like, let's just see. Like, who knows? Yeah, I was trying to let. Oh, go ahead, Jeff.
- [13:38]
J. King
No, go ahead.
- [13:40]
Zach Harper
No, I was going to change subjects a little bit to yo. To yokin specific. So go for it.
- [13:44]
J. King
I. I was just gonna say, like, looking back on their losses in this playoff run, this is going to be one of the best playoff runs we've seen for a team.
- [13:54]
Zach Harper
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [13:55]
Trey Edwards
Yeah.
- [13:56]
J. King
At least in recent history. But looking back on their losses, so they had the one where they were down like 12 to the Timberwolves and then went on like a 120 run in the last minute to send. Send it to overtime. They lost. That one.
- [14:10]
Trey Edwards
Would have won if Jokic made the free throw. He was. It was. He went one or two from the line. Would have won that game. Would have been a sweep.
- [14:17]
J. King
And then Durant and Booker had to combine for like, 170 points just to like, eek out wins just to counter. Then LeBron and AD could not get a win. LeBron and AD yeah, and AD playing at a super high level, could not get a single win. Just could not, could not disrupt them. And then they lost one game, one game in the finals where they collapsed in the fourth quarter. Jamal Murray had a three to tie. Those are their only four losses the entire playoff run so far.
- [14:50]
Zach Harper
It's about as, it's about as dominant as you can get, right? Yeah, it's. I mean, without just like, without what was.
- [14:56]
J. King
Without adding Kevin Durant to a team that already has Steph Curry.
- [15:01]
Zach Harper
Was it the 2002 or. No, it was a 2001 Lakers that went. That had one loss, right?
- [15:07]
Trey Edwards
Yeah, 12, 0. And then lost game one Philly.
- [15:09]
Zach Harper
It's about as dominant as you can get without doing that, right? Without the, the one Allen Iverson game coming and getting you. I was, I, I was thinking about this and, you know, I, I was thinking, all right, is this like, like, when's the last time we saw a finals run this dominant? And then it didn't take me long. I went back to giannis in, in 2021, and to me, I guess the Giannis one is more impressive because of the knee injury that he, like, we all thought, like, oh my God, he blew out his knee, the Bucks are done, blah, blah. And then he was out like, I don't know, six days, and then comes back and has, you know, 35 and 13 and five every single night, but still. And was playing defense. He has the, you know, the tip away alley OOP at the end of. I can't remember what game that was against the Suns. Maybe it was game three or game four, but he has that and then, you know it and caps it off with a 50 point closeout game. And I guess we have to see what Jokic does tonight to close this out. But I guess Giannis aside, this is, I mean, this is about as dominant as we've seen a player be since.
- [16:14]
J. King
LeBron did it every year.
- [16:16]
Zach Harper
Well, yeah, but, but like, look, no offense to Jamal Murray, like, he had Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh, right? Like, Jamal Murray is good, he's played really well. But I, like, do you go back to Dirk in 2011? Like, and, and that's, and that's not fair because Jamal is playing better than any of the second banana guys on, on Dallas. But I, I just think this Jokic one, I mean, his, his bad game was 8 for 19, right? Like, that was his bad game, which not a good Shooting night. But for him, that's like, holy. He didn't hit half his shots. Well, like, that's how. That's how dominant he's been.
- [16:51]
Trey Edwards
My favorite is, like, we're just gonna turn him into a scorer and whatnot. He's averaging 30 points in the series. Like, it's nothing. You know, this is easy stuff for him. Yeah. And eight assists, and that's. That's the low number it would like. I'm really just curious, is he going to get a triple double? Like, is he going to average a triple double for the finals?
- [17:10]
Zach Harper
Well, yeah, I saw. I think I saw. Tim McMahon said that he has to get 14 assists tonight to average a triple double. So I think that's the watch that we're on.
- [17:19]
Trey Edwards
I. I think. I think he legitimately.
- [17:21]
J. King
He's got a stat.
- [17:21]
Trey Edwards
Five shots. He's just going to shoot five shots, get the. Get the 10 points, and then just focus on rebounding and passing the rest of the day.
- [17:28]
Zach Harper
If he only takes five shots, he still might have. Have 25 tonight, because we'll go to the free throw line so many times.
- [17:34]
Trey Edwards
But I just think, like, this is. He's been so dominant, and then it becomes a situation, too, where it's like, look, when Bam goes to the bench, it's Cody Zeller that's coming in the car. And it's like, look, I actually think.
- [17:46]
Zach Harper
Bam's done a pretty good job of guarding him, right? Like. Like, for what you can expect from a 6, 8 dude. Like, he's done a pretty good job.
- [17:53]
Trey Edwards
He's done about as well as you possibly can for the tools that he has. And then it's just. Jokic just kind of goes like, fine, okay, I'll shoot this wide open three that Jamal Murray has created because he stretched out the. The pick and roll defense and things like that. And it's like, at times he just passes up shots because he's bored. Like, it's just frustrating, but it's. This has been an unbelievable run from Jokic. Like, I. I think I'm with you, Zach. Even though Murray's probably better than anybody on that Mavs team, this is very Dirk esque.
- [18:20]
Zach Harper
Yeah. Just in terms of, like a dude. Not. And I don't even want to say doing it by himself, because that's. That's really, like, Jamal Murray's been awesome. Right. But it just. That kind of singular, dominant force without an absolute, like, oh, here's a Hall of Famer next to this guy kind of thing. I mean, maybe. I guess maybe Kawhi in 2019. But again, like, he's on one leg. Warriors got hurt. You know, no offense to the Raptors championship, but like, that, you know, maybe that's similar, but I think Jokic has been better than Kawhi during at least during this. This finals performance. Right? I. There was a play and Mo. We talked about a little bit about what was it? The game four post game show. But there was a play at the beginning of game four in the first minute where Bam ended up with a ball in transition. He goes at Jokic, he scores a layup in transition, like, kind of around Jokic. And I remember thinking, like, okay, like, where has that been? Like, what? Like, that's what you need. Like, you. You can't let Jokic just be in the way because it's too big. And so, like, you have to, like, get out there and run and. And utilize it. Even though I think Miami needs to have, you know, as few possessions as possible in the game to try to. To try to win this. And then it didn't happen again until, like, sort of a meaningless bucket in the fourth quarter. And he. He did it again at one point. And I. There's part of me that is just like, look, I've had a lot of issues with Bam on offense throughout the last few playoffs.
- [19:51]
Trey Edwards
I Like, I. Zach, it's not even that. Forget about.
- [19:55]
Zach Harper
Just like, he sucks on offense in the playoffs. He just forget about.
- [19:58]
Trey Edwards
Forget about even going at Jokic, okay? Because, like, Yoko just huge or whatnot. There are plays where he gets a guard switched onto him, still goes to a floater. He had a play when they were trying to make that. That fake comeback that, you know, down the stretch, he had KCP on him. He gave KCP one bump and KCP went back, like, gave up ground. You should probably bump him again and you're right at the rim. Nope, Jump hook missed. Like, what the are we doing? Like, it just drives me insane. Same thing when he had Christian Brown on him. It's the same. Like, he's done it over and over again when he has guards on him. And I'm like, you're bigger than. I get it with Jokic. He's a massive human being. You're bigger than these other dudes, and you're still giving that up.
- [20:42]
Zach Harper
You. But you have a lot. Like, look, y. Again, Jokic is a better defender than people give him credit. Have mostly realized and given credit for. I do legitimately think he's a plus defender this year, but, like, you're like, you can Jump. You have long arms. You're strong, right? You're not. Yoka's strong, but, like, you get a step on him, make him foul you, do something. Like, that's the thing where I'm just like. And Jimmy, too. Like, Jimmy isn't off the hook for this. Like, he. He should be finishing through a contact on a lot of these dudes, and. And he hasn't done it all that much in this series either. And I wonder. I wonder if that is kind of the. The cumulative effect of. Of like, holy, this team's just so much bigger than us. You know, where. Where it's not even in your mind to go. To go do that Trey, right? Like, it's not even your mind to. To go. To go through it, because you're just like, all right, this dude's bigger than me. This dude's strong. I don't want to. I don't want to attack that. I'll just go to this float game. I'll go to this turnaround jumper. And that's part of the reason where they're just not establishing anything inside. And so it allows Denver to. All right, well, we're not going to double anymore. We're not going to cheat off these shooters. We're going to stay home and. And good luck.
- [21:54]
Dave Defore
Yeah, it's intimidation, but definitely just sticking to the guns, man. Just sticking to it. If y'all want us to change something up, beat us, show us that you can beat us. And nobody's proven it if you got that far and, you know, even if you lead, right? Because the first game is always the fill out after they felt comfortable. KCP came out one time and said, look, man, yeah, they won, but we shot terrible. You know what I mean? Like, they truly believe that they should be sweeping them, and they had no fear from the jump, you know what I mean? Cool. Jimmy, get your 20. Bam. Get your 20. You know, the shooters, they added the game that they won. They shot hot, but at the end of the day, they not going to shoot like that, and they going to defend. And also, Denver knows that, you know, they know how to respond to runs. And I think that's their biggest, like, you know, their biggest flex of everything is how do. How do you. How do you have composure when a team responds and they're even killed throughout the game, no matter what, you know what I mean? Where it's just kind of like, oh, they're down 9. They're not worried about it. They can hit a couple threes, defend, and be right back into It. And they don't have to, they don't have to force Jokic.
- [23:03]
Zach Harper
Right.
- [23:04]
Dave Defore
That's the one thing I can honestly say when I look at the Yanni. When you talk about the Giannis run or you talk about whoever it may be, whether it's Steph, whether it's kd, whether all these good athletes, they're not forcing Jokic, if you look at jokers is the. He gets the gravity, but mainly he's looking to distribute time in the fourth.
- [23:24]
Zach Harper
Yeah, it's very Curry esque Trey in terms of just like he, like, you know, the ball is going to come back to him if it needs to. Right now Yogic is obviously way more of a distributor than, than Steph, especially in the, in their respective offenses. But I think like what I think to what you're saying there, like that gravity is there no matter what's happening on the floor and you just have to respect that the ball might go back to him.
- [23:48]
J. King
And then it. There's a. The Steph comparison is a weird one, but I'm going to take it even a step further because like Steph, Steph, Steph.
- [24:01]
Zach Harper
We just underclip Dave.
- [24:03]
J. King
You're always worried about Steph no matter where he is. And because of that other guys get open, right? And everything. A lot of stuff that Andrew Wiggins gets that all these other guys get, it's because of all the focus on Stephen with, with Jokic, he does it in a different way where it's like just his ability to pass from different angles from, from to. To throw guys open. Like Christian Brown cutting, Michael Porter Jr. Cutting. All these things are such weapons because Jokic can deliver the ball wherever it needs to go and there's nothing you can do to stop him from throwing a pass. He. You cannot impact him. You cannot take away the passing angles that you can with a lot of guys because he's too big and he can throw every pass with. It's just ridiculous. So he's made any sense at all.
- [24:57]
Zach Harper
No, it didn't. It didn't.
- [24:58]
Trey Edwards
Well, the way that they're both able.
- [25:00]
J. King
To weaponize other players in a way that nobody else can. Yes. Is the comparison I'm drawing.
- [25:08]
Zach Harper
So yeah. Just to. Just to kind of tie that up in a pretty bow, you said to take it a step further and then took no steps further.
- [25:14]
Trey Edwards
None whatsoever.
- [25:16]
Zach Harper
Side by side with the point matter of fact.
- [25:18]
Trey Edwards
Matter of fact rewound and a half.
- [25:22]
Zach Harper
Step back and then a half step back forward. So we're still in line with each other.
- [25:25]
Trey Edwards
And Said and said it more concisely, though, at least this time around. At least this time it made some sense.
- [25:30]
J. King
Yeah, it was. It was a poor, poor delivery. I was. In my head, it seemed amazing.
- [25:37]
Zach Harper
You got. There's. There's the title of your memoir right there. In my head, it seemed amazing, the JK story.
- [25:44]
J. King
I think I was so. I was so excited for that. I was like, oh, yeah, this was gonna be. You know what?
- [25:50]
Trey Edwards
Hold on, hold on, hold on. You know what happen. The moment. The moment. The moment you told him. The moment you said, dave, we got our clip. He clammed up.
- [26:04]
J. King
Oh, I called for the ISO. Yeah. Hit him with the step back. I even did. Did the Nick Young like celebrating tour.
- [26:12]
Dave Defore
Definitely did a Nick Young off the rim.
- [26:19]
Zach Harper
And I think. I think to. To Trey's point about, you know, the, the way they can weather runs, right. I. I think that there's a. And again, I don't want to oversell this with, with Jokic because I, I don't think he's at that level possibly yet, and I don't think he'll get to that level. But there is a Tim Duncan esque quality of calmness right. Where you can kind of just like know that our guy is not rattled by this. He's saying, you know, the same blood pressure down 10, up 10, whatever. Like he, like, it is very even keel mo across the board. And, And I think with. With Jokic, like, you see that. With this team, like, you see. You see kind of, you know, the, the similar, the similar style of. Of leadership in that.
- [27:12]
Trey Edwards
Go. Go back to just game two when they make that run. I mean, they almost. I mean, it was almost the same thing as that Minnesota game four.
- [27:19]
Zach Harper
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Trey Edwards
Where they make a last minute run and basically had a chance to tie it and go to overtime. You know, if Murray makes that shot and it's a different story.
- [27:26]
Zach Harper
Yeah. Who knows?
- [27:27]
Trey Edwards
Right? And. And. And I think the. It's just. They never are panicked. They're never phased at this point. You know, they just continue to run their stuff, continue to go through it. We. How many times have we felt like they've gotten out of character? Forget the series, even the playoff run. Like, I haven't felt like there have been times where it's like, okay, Bruce Brown has decided we're in trouble. I'm going ISO. Right. Like, they just stay with their.
- [27:52]
Zach Harper
He did decide not we're in trouble, but he was like, oh, I got dunking on me.
- [27:56]
Trey Edwards
No, that's different. That's different. That's different. That's.
- [27:59]
Zach Harper
I've been playing with this dude for too long. Like, I'm going at him. Yeah.
- [28:02]
Trey Edwards
Like, that's different. But yeah, he had that advantage. Missing mismatch in that sense. But like, they just never feel like you can't rush them. And you thought. And you thought maybe this Miami Heat would. Team would be able to do it. And I think if they didn't go to 7 with the Celtics and Spo had more time, there might have been more wrinkles he could have thrown in and prepared going into this. I mean, I'm gonna give. If you give SPO eight days, I think he'll get more than one game in a series.
- [28:30]
Zach Harper
I don't know how much more they could. Like, what other defensive. Like, he'd have to invent defense. Like, oh, my.
- [28:36]
Trey Edwards
Though Zach.
- [28:37]
Zach Harper
He might. But I don't know, man. Like, they've thrown every look you can possibly come up with.
- [28:43]
Trey Edwards
But. But I just think at the end of the day, they just haven't been able to rattle them. And if they're.
- [28:48]
Zach Harper
Yeah.
- [28:48]
Trey Edwards
If they're down and they make a run, it doesn't. It doesn't worry them. Jokic goes out in game four with. With foul trouble. They. They didn't put him back in until like the 4:30 mark.
- [28:59]
Zach Harper
I thought he was.
- [29:00]
Trey Edwards
I thought Michael Balo was greedy.
- [29:01]
Zach Harper
I think Marcus Thompson wrote It was like 315 seconds that defined, you know, their kind of their championship run there. The. The non yokage minutes there. Yeah. @the athletic.com. subscribe so some breaking news as we're recording this. Sham Charani reports that Kyler Hero has been upgraded to questionable. Questionable ahead of game five tonight. I, like, I've said this whole time, like, I don't think he helps. And some people have been like, you know what?
- [29:33]
Dave Defore
You know what's questionable? Why Tyler Hero hasn't had his bags packed. Because they going to Cancun. They going to Cancun, baby. You know what I'm saying? Actually, you know what? Hero going to Italy. He going to be. Oh, yeah, Fashion Week. He gonna go hang out with Miles. He gonna wear all them prints. They all going to Fashion Week.
- [29:56]
Zach Harper
I can tell you the way he's dressed. They're not. They're not letting him into Fashion Week the way he's been dressing. That's not. That's not happening. I've said this whole time, like, I. I like the dynamic they have with this playoff run without Tyler Hero. And that's not to say Tyler Hero is a bad player. I Just think you lose a lot. And look, this is. Could be. If he ends up playing tonight, this could be a last ditch effort. And I get the idea of like, look, that's a 20 point score. He's a good 20 point score. You can use that against his defense. But this is a dude who hasn't played in two months now, right? Coming back from a hand that does not seem like based on reports and everything that it's fully healed.
- [30:31]
Dave Defore
Also I'm going to say that Gabe Vincent passed him the ball with his broken hand and keep him out so he could start. Also, please, listeners, listeners, go listen to the. I mean go find the thread about things that happened in the NBA this season. Amazing.
- [30:49]
Zach Harper
Oh my God. I look, I had forgotten that the whole Patrick Beverly camera thing happened in Boston. I could that one.
- [30:55]
J. King
I did it because I was there for that. That was amazing. Oh, I died when I saw that special.
- [31:00]
Zach Harper
Does anybody think two part question. Do you think Tyler Herro can't like it? Like makes a big difference in this series at full strength? And do you think that he can even be close to full strength tonight after not playing for two months? Mo. No.
- [31:19]
Trey Edwards
That's such a hard situation to just drop him right into this environment.
- [31:22]
Zach Harper
Five of the NBA Finals. Yeah.
- [31:24]
Trey Edwards
Three, one.
- [31:25]
Zach Harper
Would that possib still broken hand or whatever the ailment is at this point?
- [31:28]
Trey Edwards
Like, yeah, like, you know, and what was it? It was like less than a week ago where it was like, yeah, even after shooting drills my hand swells up. Yeah, I'm sorry, that. And then, and then in the altitude, like he hasn't played an NBA game and now we're gonna have him run up and down in Denver. Like, sorry guys. Like I just can't see him having that much of an impact. Like that's such a pressure situation to put him into.
- [31:51]
Zach Harper
Could he give you four minutes, Jay? Like, could Tyler give you four minutes of just like this is a difference making four minute stretch. Like, let's not say like, oh, he's gonna have 30 tonight. Like, but could he give them four minutes where it's like holy Tyler hero. Really helped here.
- [32:04]
J. King
You gotta have the Reggie Jackson leash on him. Like just, just throw him out there.
- [32:08]
Zach Harper
That is a brand new sentence in, in the history of speaking that is.
- [32:13]
J. King
Throw him out there for a minute or two. See if he's got anything to give you. Because they do need an offensive lift. They need someone to create shots. They need someone to, to be able to produce any type of look against this Denver defense that has really, really just limited them over the last few games. I, I just, I can't see him coming back into this series. And really, they got better when he got hurt, they got better. The ball started moving more, the defense was better. Players are making quicker decisions. The defense is better. If I'm Tyler Hero, I look at how the team played without me and I'm like, I probably have to change the way that I play next season. I can't be pounding the ball into the ground the way I do. It's got to be quicker decisions. And if he could do that, he's, he's, he's very talented and he's a great shot maker.
- [33:10]
Zach Harper
Yeah, Jay, I'll take that a step further. I think if you're Tyler Hero, you got to think, maybe I need to change the way I play.
- [33:18]
J. King
Yo, I hate you, man.
- [33:25]
Zach Harper
All right, let's. That was so unnecessary, but I just couldn't, I couldn't resist.
- [33:32]
Trey Edwards
It feels like the last day of.
- [33:34]
Zach Harper
School and the, the two seconds it took him to realize I was just being a dick and not actually offering.
- [33:40]
J. King
Up a point that I, I knew. I knew the whole time. I just.
- [33:46]
Zach Harper
All right, let's make, let's make predictions about tonight. Mo. Who, who, who? How much do you have? Denver by tonight?
- [33:55]
Trey Edwards
Yeah, that's really the question. I think the Heat make it a game. I still think it's going to be a six point Denver win. I think that's just, they just got too much. And I don't know if Tyler Herro, even if he steps out there, like, that's just a new target for them defensively. Like you, Bruce Brown just saw that tweet come across and went like, ooh.
- [34:15]
Zach Harper
Maybe that's the plan for the Heat, though. All right, we need to see Bruce Brown go back to back games of this. Trey, who do you got tonight and by how much?
- [34:23]
Dave Defore
Denver by 14. Burial out of here. And we getting some minutes from our young fella, Peyton Watson out of Long Beach, California.
- [34:32]
Zach Harper
How about that? Let's get Peyton Watson some minutes. Yeah.
- [34:35]
Dave Defore
Peyton Watson Ring. He's getting a derail. Right, Miami Heat.
- [34:38]
Zach Harper
Ring shouts to Darrell. Right, Jay, what do you got tonight? By how much?
- [34:46]
J. King
Nuggets by 25.
- [34:49]
Dave Defore
Whoa.
- [34:50]
J. King
Michael Porter Jr. Is going to hit six threes. That's. That's what's going to. It's going to be like just a release for Michael Porter Jr.
- [34:58]
Zach Harper
It's wild that their third best scorer has had eight points a game, 29% shooting, 13% from three, and they've been Fine.
- [35:09]
J. King
And he's a deadly shooter. He's one of the best shooters alive. And for him to go this cold is so weird because he's.
- [35:17]
Zach Harper
There's no way he's had. There's no way he's had four games like this in a row throughout his career. Right. Like, there's no way he's had this kind of a slump.
- [35:24]
J. King
He's just such a gifted shooter. It's so weird to see that happen. But anything. I think that he. That he'd have to know, and I know the Miami, and. And they come back from stuff, and they. They were the eight seed, and it just shrugged it off and got to the finals anyway. But after the last few games, you have to be like, what are we supposed to do against these guys? There has to be in the back of your mind just the realization that Denver is so much better than you. And. And I. I just feel like tonight's going to be a blowout.
- [35:58]
Zach Harper
I got heat by 30. No, I've got Denver. I've got Denver. I think, by 11. I think it's close from the first half. And then I think Denver pulls away and is up 20. And then Miami does one of those bullshit fake runs to, like, cut it to, like, around 10. And I'll say Jokic does not stat pat enough to get the triple double for the six.
- [36:20]
Trey Edwards
14'S a lot.
- [36:20]
Zach Harper
14'S a lot. He did have that in game one, though. He had 14. I mean, he could.
- [36:26]
Trey Edwards
He could definitely do it, but it's still like, that's also. You know, the key to the assist is other guys making shots. And If Michael Porter Jr. Is not going to make shots, like, that's a tough.
- [36:35]
J. King
Oh, but he's going to tonight, I think.
- [36:39]
Zach Harper
I think Jokic, like, he just. He treats this as such a job, right? Like, I think he loves basketball. I don't think he loves playing in the NBA. I think he just wants to get back to his horses. I think the whole reason to end this tonight and Jokic just takes over at some point is like, fuck this. I want to go home. I want to, like. I want to miss the parade.
- [37:00]
Trey Edwards
Does he miss the parade to go?
- [37:01]
Zach Harper
No, I think you have to, like, have the horses in the parade.
- [37:05]
Trey Edwards
Okay. So, yeah.
- [37:08]
Dave Defore
There'S an image where he's sitting in the buggy. He's not even. He's not even riding the horses.
- [37:13]
Trey Edwards
Yeah.
- [37:14]
Dave Defore
You know, it's crazy. He don't even probably believe in riding the horses, bro. He just want to pay.
- [37:18]
Zach Harper
Yeah. He just wants to Be pulled by the horses, right? Like, yeah, they.
- [37:22]
J. King
They should present him with a horse at half court after the game.
- [37:26]
Zach Harper
Oh, yeah, like when they used to do, like, the car for. Yeah. Oh, name him Nugget. Yeah, absolutely.
- [37:30]
J. King
Michael Malone comes riding the horse out.
- [37:32]
Dave Defore
Of the locker room.
- [37:33]
J. King
That would be the. It would be the greatest moment.
- [37:36]
Zach Harper
Like a scene out of the movie Eddie, where the.
- [37:38]
Trey Edwards
Where Franklin jealous if the YIC brothers were tossing him up. Michael Malone, when. When they got to the finals. Like, what's the encore to that? When they win the championship? Like, how do they go? Do they go a step further? Like, what do they. Does he ride their shoulders? Like, do they sell?
- [37:52]
Zach Harper
Do they celebrate by. By playing the knife game? Right? Like, like, and. And Mike's just like, no, we're not doing that. Like, I. I don't think you can trust that.
- [38:04]
Trey Edwards
Yeah.
- [38:05]
Zach Harper
The Yokich brothers celebration. Thank God they're not winning this thing in Miami.
- [38:08]
Trey Edwards
Oh, God.
- [38:09]
Zach Harper
Good luck, Las Vegas tonight. Good luck, because that is gonna be. Some casino is being torn down like that video game rampage.
- [38:17]
Trey Edwards
It might be the first time Las Vegas would be like, no flights coming in.
- [38:20]
Zach Harper
No, thank you. Yeah, no, we're good.
- [38:21]
Trey Edwards
Nothing.
- [38:22]
Zach Harper
You guys go to jail or something. There's still snow on the mountains. Like, we're not doing that. All right, make sure you check it out. All of your finals coverage on the Athletic. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube page so you can see that moment of silence that J. King had before he decided to comment on me being a dick. Make sure you subscribe to the balance, the athletic.com the balance, your free, free, free email newsletter from me and from Sean Charania, Monday through Friday, every single morning. Make sure you're checking out one more thing on Modak socials and I don't know, buy some shoes from Trey if you want. I don't know if those. If that's still an option, but he's. He's sending out an entire Foot Locker right now. For Mo, for Trey, for Jay, for Dave, on Zach. Keep it locked on the Athletic.
- [39:47]
J. King
Foreign.
- [39:55]
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Dave Defore
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J. King
Here's a show that we recommend.
- [41:23]
Trey Edwards
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
- [41:25]
Dave Defore
Or taping songs off the radio?
- [41:28]
Trey Edwards
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
- [41:30]
Dave Defore
Hey, AOL chat rooms.
- [41:32]
Trey Edwards
Did we just age ourselves? Yep, we're Mike Fenoya and Charles McBee.
- [41:36]
Dave Defore
Two comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging question, Are we old?
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Trey Edwards
Relive the laughs, the cringes, and the nostalgia.
- [41:45]
Dave Defore
Are we old? Podcast Acast right here on Acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.