Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (3:35)

Well, you know, there's two, there's two parts of the indictments that the federal government brought today. There's a sports gambling investigation that they had and where, you know, betters used what they call non public information, basically insider information to place bets. And then there's also a poker ring aspect too. This and Chauncey Billups, according to the federal government, what it alleges was part of the pokering aspect of this and that he was involved in poker games that were rigged and that helped, you know, defraud people out of money, according to the federal government. You know, there are rigged poker games in the Hamptons, Miami, Las Vegas, Manhattan, and the victims, they said were called fish and they were lured in to play by former pros who apparently were called face cards according to their investigation. And so Chauncey Billups was a part of it, according to, according to the federal government.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (4:34)

So this is obviously massive news for the NBA world. It sent shock waves this morning when everybody was sort of reacting to the news. But there's also a player aspect to this in Terry Rozier who was already under investigation. He was arrested in Orlando and has some pretty major accusations coming his way. What can you tell us about Rosier's part in this, in this whole scandal?

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (5:00)

Well, the, the Department of Justice alleges that Terry Rozier let another defendant who was charged today know that he would come out of a game on March 23, 2023, while he was still at the Chart Hornets, that he would come out of a game early and so that, you know, that people could then bet on it basically, you know, so they could bet on his over unders prop bets. And so the person that he shared with, shared that information with, took it and shared it with others. And so there's kind of a downstream effect, according to The DOJ about, you know, who used that information. And so it was very similar to what happened with John Tay Porter, you know, a year and a half ago when the allegations about him came out and he eventually pleaded guilty, too. It's that players shared information and that information was used to. To bet on the props about them, to bet on their unders. And, you know, that's what the government says happened here with Rozier.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (6:00)

So actually, this is a good point here. You mentioned the Jontay Porter case, obviously, a few months ago. I want to say Gilbert Arenas was also arrested for, you know, illegal poker activities and games. Is this all tied together? Is this all one thing, or are these separate cases that are going on at the same time?

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (6:21)

No, these are all separate cases. Different. Different district attorney's offices. That one against Gilbert Arenas is in California. This one is brought out of the Eastern District of New York, the Gilbert Arenas one. You know, the allegations there. The federal government says that basically he hosted poker games at his home in California and took a piece of the cut, which is different than what they allege happened in, you know, the stuff that was announced today. Okay.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (6:49)

No, that makes sense. I mean, look, it's. It's kind of hard to sift through everything. So I figured like a. An uninitiated approach to this would probably be the best to explain to people, but in a bare bones way. Chauncey Billups, Terry Rosier, and now Damon Jones also, who's a former player, has been caught up in this. What was Jones's involvement in this whole situation?

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (7:09)

Well, it's kind of the other end of what Rozier might have, you know, was alleged to be doing. It's, you know, Damon Jones obviously had a long NBA career, and for a few seasons there, he acted as like an unofficial shooting coach or something along those lines with the Los Angeles. Los Angeles Lakers. And, you know, the federal government says that he used information that he gained about who might and might. Might be playing. Might not be playing rather, and who might be hurt. And he sold it to bettors so they could place bets. You know, one. One aspect, one particular incident that they mentioned came in February 2023. He found out that one Lakers player, who they don't name in the indictment but they say is, you know, a star Lakers player would not play that night with a lower one. I wonder who that was. Yeah, and so it was, you know, he got that information before that person was placed on the injury report, and then he sold it. And, you know, people place bets against the Lakers and bet on the bucks that night. And then the next year he, you know, got information that another very good Lakers player might not, might be limited, might not play as full minutes or might not play to form that day. And again, you know, sold that information and someone placed $100,000 bet on it and ultimately the Lakers won. The player apparently played to form and you know, the, the person that he sold that information to even wanted his money back for what he thought was bad information. But that's kind of what the, the DOJ alleges that Damon Jones did, which was uses the status as insider information to sell it so they could place bets on, you know, the games that he knew about.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (8:56)

What happens next? Because it feels like every few months we get a story like this. I mean this is obviously massive and huge in its own way, but there's just been numerous stories that we can think of since the supreme court passed the kind of opened the gates for betting seven years ago.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (9:16)

What happens next? Well, that's a good question. I mean there's the legal sense which is they're going to try, they're going to try this case, right? And we'll see what, what the government is able to prove. You know, I think we have to note in the legal system you have a presumption of innocence, right? It's on the federal government to prove its case and show that its allegations, you know, can withstand a jury of your peers. And.

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Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (13:41)

I think the more interesting thing is how does the NBA deal with this? Right. You know, this eats at the very core of professional basketball, professional sports. Like it happened to the NBA. This could happen in other sports, too. We've seen it happen in baseball. Right.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (13:57)

Y.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (13:58)

There's two pitchers who got suspended with the Cleveland Guardians this summer. If you don't think that the sports you're watching are legit and are authentic, then you come closer to professional wrestling and sports entertainment than you do actual sports. And so, you know, it's on the league to try to clamp down on this, to try to, you know, to try to try and ensure fairness. Right. To prevent information from leaking out, you know, so people can bet on it or. Or worse. Which is what we saw with Terry Rocheare. Allegedly. And well, we saw Johntay Porter, who's already pled guilty to this. Right. And admitted to it. It's player performance manipulation. And, you know, players manipulating the performance can lead to team performance issues too. Right? Yeah. So I don't know what happens next because it's a serious issue. The NBA stance has been we want gambling legalized. We prefer legal gambling than we do illegal sports gambling. But that also makes it easier to bet. And I think people will obviously try to game the system if they feel like they can make money off of it. Yeah.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (15:00)

The blurred lines that are. Everybody's trying to sift through and figure out what. Where the. The gray area is when it comes to gambling and information. And I think that's important when it comes to, especially the NBA when it went. When it comes to injuries. Right. You mentioned the tanking aspect of things was something that was mentioned in this case as well. Is that something we can see more stringent punishments for teams that are tanking or teams that are trying to rest players towards the end of the season?

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (15:29)

Well, I mean, here the tanking came into play that like somebody tipped off, you know, betters in one case with their Orlando Magic? According to the doj, it was a Magic player who told one of the co defendants, like, hey, the entire starting lineup's not playing and then they bet on it. Another case with someone else who let them Know that a Blazers player was not going to be playing and while the Blazers were tanking and they bet on it. And so you have to figure out how to control that flow of information. Right.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (15:55)

I don't know.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (15:56)

I don't know what you do about it, how you're able to get to a point where the information becomes public as soon as possible. But surely, yeah, it's related to these things, but it's also injuries too. You know, like if you know someone's hurt, that's vital. It's a serious thing. And it's an issue the NBA now has to deal with. They're at the league at the forefront of this because it's their players, their head coach. Although this, obviously the Chauncey Billups thing is not related to the sports gambling aspect of it. But they're in the news and, you know, that's a. It's an issue I, I think might be above my pay grade.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (16:31)

Yeah, fair enough. I mean, yeah, this, this kind of goes against the. No, no bad publicity thing. You know, no such thing as bad publicity. Because this is definitely tough to look at for the NBA. Look, I know the Athletic did a poll saying that nearly 50% of players express concerns with the way gambling is talk and it's how open it is in the NBA when you're talking to league officials, when you're talking to players, what sort of the conversations you're having about these stories in these cases that pop up.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (17:02)

Yeah, you know, I think to this point the NBA has been saying it's a, you know, one time thing.

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Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (17:06)

With Johntay Porter and then Terry, Roger, and then these are all isolated incidents. Yeah. But the more we learn, it's. It's not right. But the more cases we have where somebody weaponizes this kind of information and finds weak spots. So they're going to have to either change the rhetoric or figure out a way to make it what they claim it is to be. You know, I think one of the interesting things is that Adam Silver has talked about this as basically like insider trading. Right. And that's kind of the way the FBI director Cash Patel talked about it too. This is an insider trading saga for the NBA. Well, you know, the thing with insider trading is, and all these cases, they've only caught it after the fact. That. Right.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (17:46)

Yeah.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (17:47)

The thing that they don't want to happen has already happened. And so you can catch them and prosecute them and punish them, but the malfeasance has happened, the tainting of the games has happened. And so they have to figure out that aspect that how to get ahead of it. And I don't know what that answer is.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (18:06)

Yeah, the prevention aspect is is just as difficult to kind of wrangle your head around. We'll see what happens. Look, the the Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier already on indefinite leave from the NBA. Tiago Splinter is jumping in as head coach or interim head coach for the Blazers. I assume this investigation will take a while to sort itself out. And Mike Forknov, you will be there covering it for us here at the Athletic. Thank you very much for hopping on.

Mike Borkanov (The Athletic NBA Analyst) (18:36)

Appreciate you any Simon. Thank you for having me. Of course.

Podcast Host (The Athletic NBA Daily) (18:39)

Thank you guys for listening. As always, tap into the Athletic NBA Daily. You can listen on all of your streaming platforms as well as YouTube. See you guys later.

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