CJ Miles on the Evolution of the NBA

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: CJ Miles on the Evolution of the NBA
Date: July 18, 2026
Host(s): Dave DuFour, Esfandiar Baraheni (Esper), Special Guest: CJ Miles

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid conversation with 16-year NBA veteran CJ Miles, now an NBA photographer, broadcaster, and creative. The discussion covers Miles' transition from player to storyteller, the evolution of playing roles and positional expectations in the NBA, the impact of analytics on roster building and media coverage, and reflections on contemporary NBA trends and young talent. CJ shares first-hand experiences and thoughtful insights on changes in the sport, all with his trademark laid-back honesty and humor.

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Main Topics and Key Discussion Points

CJ Miles’ Post-NBA Journey (01:31–05:10)

• Transitioning out of the league:
  CJ shares how he's kept busy after playing — podcasting, radio work, shooting photography, and enjoying home life.
  • "I'm not [retired]. That's why I don't say the word. Like, I'm just doing some other stuff." (02:04)
• Creative pursuits:
  CJ talks about his long-standing interest in storytelling through writing, music, and now photography.
  • "I've always been like a creative...I wanted to be a communicator, to be a storyteller." (03:05)
  • He started snapping photos in the NBA to capture stories only athletes could tell visually.
• Getting technical with photography:
  CJ describes his journey learning digital photography, switching from Fujifilm to Sony (“just needed a faster camera”), and his excitement with capturing moments courtside.

Experiencing the NBA Behind the Camera (05:03–06:05)

• Reliving the game as media:
  "Now I'm in there as a witness and not like as the thing...I get to be like a kid with the best seat in the house and with his camera." (05:10)
• Emotional connections:
  Being close to the action triggers powerful memories, fueling both his creative writing and photographic work.

Reflecting on His Playing Career & NBA’s Growth (06:05–09:36)

• Comparing rookie experiences:
  CJ recalls how much harder the NBA’s rookie transition used to be, with little support, compared to today's structured programs and resources.
  • "It wasn't really set up for me to make it through that. Yeah, there was no resources." (06:47)
• Storytelling as a bridge:
  Having lived through transformative changes in the NBA, CJ finds purpose in documenting the growth of the league today for fans and younger players.
  • "I get to be my 12 year old self with all these...now I'm in the arena, not just sitting on my living room floor." (07:22)

Modern NBA Stars and Challenges (07:39–09:36)

• On Victor Wembanyama:
  Calls him the embodiment of limitless imagination, marvels at capturing him in photos (“He also gave me the challenge of trying to get his whole body in frame." (07:51)).
  On his development: “He doesn’t even have a place on the floor yet that’s his spot…People get nervous about saying, hey, let’s just go right here…but you have to start somewhere to finish everywhere.” (08:53–09:24)
• On positionless basketball:
  CJ argues we aren’t fully “positionless” yet — true positional fluidity requires everyone to be a decision-maker, not just shifting smalls to big roles or vice versa.
  • "We haven't really truly played positionless basketball yet...everyone's a decision maker...that's when it's positionless." (10:08–10:25)

Evolution of NBA Roles, Creativity, and “Workout Culture” (09:41–15:14)

• Specialization to fluidity:
  As a player, CJ explains how rigid archetypes (“3-and-D”) initially provided opportunity but became constrictive, limiting development of broader skills.
  • "Either you break the system, or the system breaks you." (11:56)
• Modern game’s pace and freedom:
  Now, the emphasis is on spacing, autonomy, and instinct — players must adapt quickly and make decisions instead of memorizing set plays.
• Critique of workout culture:
  Advocates unstructured play for youth development, argues against trainers giving “answers” before players even have “questions”.
  • “The game should tell me what to practice, not the other way around.” (13:38)
• Anecdote on trainers:
  Points out how sharing trainers can make players' moves predictable (e.g., Tatum and Wiggins).

The Playoff/Regular Season Mindset Shift (28:06–29:06)

• Regular season vs. playoffs:
  CJ highlights the need to “trust” players regardless of shooting slumps because “playoff basketball is the game.” (28:31)
  • “The most trusted players are going to be on the floor whether he’s 1 for 10 or not. Do I trust that guy is what makes him on the floor.” (28:31)

Talent Identification & Growth in Today’s League (29:15–32:31)

• Influential teammates and mentors:
  Credits Earl Watson (Utah) for instilling a decisive mindset — “Be aggressive” meant playing by instinct, not just shooting blindly.
  • “If I let you think, we’re wasting time. We don’t have time to think. We have to play.” (29:42)
• Later-career evolution:
  Describes how later coaches (e.g., Byron Scott in Cleveland) unlocked the rest of his game, highlighting the NBA's shift to handoffs, spacing, and pace.

The Analytics Debate & Media Critique (21:46–27:41)

• Reacting to the Jalen Brown trade:
  CJ dislikes the Celtics' public “value” narrative about Jalen, preferring direct honesty over media justification. (22:15–22:51)
  • "If y'all got a disagreement...Just say that and keep it moving. We don't have to play this game...No, I love Derek. Really, really good at what he does. Absolutely. But that guy is that guy. Finals MVP."
• Analytics as tool, not gospel:
  Scrutinizes how overreliance on analytics leads to out-of-context player evaluations and takes agency from players. (24:01–25:10)
  • "The numbers have a hard time with guys that are Jalen Brown. Right. If you’re the best player on the team..." (23:44)
  • "Analytics come after the game...People that crunch a lot of numbers could not watch any basketball games and then come in and make decisions..." (24:34–24:48)
  • "You can use stats any way you want." (26:07)
• Media responsibilities:
  Suggests much of the media lacks deep basketball knowledge, contributing to shallow analytics talk and neglecting the human side of players.
  • “Unfortunately, a lot of them can't do it because they don't know basketball. They don't really watch the games.” (26:38)
  • “There's a human factor still to this...It's still someone's human experience.” (27:15)

Favorite Young Players and Team Storylines (32:36–39:10)

• Summer League standouts:
  Cites Dylan Harper as especially dynamic (32:49) and praises Spurs, Golden State, Utah’s recent rookie performances, noting the continuity of certain archetypes for San Antonio.
• Favorite upcoming storylines:
  • Excited by “young guys in New Orleans,” Halliburton’s return in Indiana, and Utah’s development with new dual-guard lineups (36:44–37:53).
  • On Toronto and the possibility of Kawhi returning: “It eerily reminds me of the way it was happening when I got there...Kawhi injects a different kind of confidence coming in, because that lets those guys know that team is thinking about winning right now.” (38:11–38:37)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• CJ on storytelling:
  "I wanted to tell stories with my imagery. I didn’t want someone else guessing...So that’s what pulled me all the way in." (03:25)
• On Victor Wembanyama:
  "He represents my imagination when I was playing on the hoop on my door in my bedroom...He could do anything." (08:13)
• On pace and space:
  "There's just so much more opportunity in the game because of the freedom." (11:16)
• On analytics and player value:
  "The numbers and the eye test don't match up...If I watch a guy not play both sides of the ball, if I watch a guy's body language be bad...But what's the benefit of that?" (25:10)
• Earl Watson's influence:
  "If I let you think, like, we're wasting time. We don't have time to think. We have to play." (29:42)
• On playoffs and analytics:
  "Playoff basketball is the game...The most trusted players are going to be on the floor whether he's 1 for 10 or not." (28:31)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:31 – CJ Miles’ journey post-NBA
• 05:10 – His perspective covering the NBA as a photographer
• 06:05 – Reflections on rookie transition and league changes
• 07:51 – On Victor Wembanyama’s uniqueness and challenges
• 10:08 – Positionless basketball: where the league stands
• 13:38 – Critique of workout culture and player development
• 21:46 – Jalen Brown trade, analytics, and value conversations
• 26:38 – Media coverage critique and human side of players
• 28:31 – Playoff vs. regular season mindset and analytics limits
• 29:42 – Lessons from teammates and adapting offensive roles
• 32:49 – Favorite young players and summer league notes
• 36:44 – New Orleans, Indiana, and Utah storylines for next season
• 38:11 – Toronto’s future and Kawhi Leonard speculation

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Tone & Overall Feel

The episode maintains a reflective, conversational, and sometimes humorous tone, with CJ Miles delivering thoughtful takes based on both lived experience and creative sensibility. The hosts engage with informed questions and banter, keeping the mood lively but insightful throughout.

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This summary covers all major content areas, key timestamps, and thematic quotes, providing a useful and engaging roadmap for anyone seeking to understand the episode’s most meaningful discussions.

Transcript

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[C.J. Miles]

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperaheny and special guest C.J. miles. Good morning everybody. What is up? Welcome to the show. C.J. miles. 16 year old NBA vets.

[Esperaheny]

Yep.

[Dave DeFore]

Poet, photographer, NBA photographer C.J. miles. How's everything going, man?

[C.J. Miles]

I'm going good, man.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I mean retirement is. You're barely retired.

[C.J. Miles]

Not retired.

[Esperaheny]

He's working.

[C.J. Miles]

I'm not. That's why I don't say the word like I'm just doing some other stuff.

[Dave DeFore]

All right, so what have you been up to, you know, since. Since you retired from the NBA?

[C.J. Miles]

I mean, I took some time to rest. Yeah, the first like three, four years of it, I guess. Like I retired I guess officially in 21 to 2122. So like it's been. I got a good three years of just being at home like we talked about, like checking my own mailbox, being in the pickup line, being on my kids, doing the whole like just. And then trying things too. Like I did a podcast for the Raptors. For Yahoo.

[Esperaheny]

Canada.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah, I did. It was good by the way.

[Esperaheny]

It was a good podcast.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah, it was good Canada. Just that part of the department was just shut. Yeah, yeah. And then radio broadcasting. I do part time Broadcast when you talk jazz. Just trying and being around, like, just playing around. Right.

[Esperaheny]

Really.

[Dave DeFore]

What.

[Esperaheny]

What got you into photography? Because I don't. I don't remember. So in your career, you being into. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

So, like, I was. I've always been like a creative. Like, I guess that's the term we would use. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

But sure, yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

I was always into. Like, I wrote. I was making music throughout my career. A lot of people know. I remember that I was doing all those things and like, my big goal was to be a communicator, to be a storyteller. That was always part of my idea of myself. And I started picking up the camera early in my career. Young and dumb, just off and on.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But the biggest thing was if I'm going to be a communicator and tell stories, I wanted to have the image. I wanted to tell stories with my imagery. Also. I didn't want someone else guessing. Okay, this is how we. This is what we think he's talking about. So that's what pulled me all the way in.

[Esperaheny]

That's. How long did it take you to, like, figure out the ins and outs, the technical side of. Because he used to be a photographer.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

And like, I think a big learning curve for that is just. Just the technical aspect of photography.

[C.J. Miles]

And it's just time. Like, my biggest thing, I just. I shot into the pictures. Blurry anymore. I didn't.

[Dave DeFore]

Straight to digital.

[C.J. Miles]

I did. I went straight to digital.

[Esperaheny]

Do you want to do film?

[C.J. Miles]

I do. I'm working backwards.

[Esperaheny]

Okay. Yeah, that's fine though.

[Dave DeFore]

That's.

[Esperaheny]

I do the same thing.

[Dave DeFore]

Your Photoshop skills are going to get way better once you're in the dark.

[C.J. Miles]

That's what I've heard.

[Esperaheny]

But I got. I got something for you.

[Dave DeFore]

Once you learn to dodge and burn in real life, I mean, it really does change the way that you use Photoshop.

[C.J. Miles]

What kind of camera you shoot the games? Sony. Yeah, Sony A1.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, we got those.

[C.J. Miles]

And I like the acoustics. Got good stuff too.

[Esperaheny]

You got the Sony A7 or the A1.

[C.J. Miles]

So I was late to Sony, so I got all the newest stuff. Yeah, I'm a new Sony user, so I was Fujifilm because that's what I learned on. So, like, part of me was just like, this is what I know what I learned. And then one day I went to a game and I was like, there's shots I'm missing simply because I need a faster camera.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, it wasn't about anything. And I was like, I'm not gonna miss any more shots.

[Dave DeFore]

I think the fujifilm is micro 4/3, if I'm correct. And is that correct?

[C.J. Miles]

I'm not sure.

[Esperaheny]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Anyway, let's not get too.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay.

[C.J. Miles]

So I.

[Dave DeFore]

We ran into each other at the finals. We hadn't seen each other in a while, and. And you're out there lugging around camera

[C.J. Miles]

here like a rookie.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, so. So you're back as a rookie again.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And what's it. What's it like, like, covering the NBA from, you know, from behind a camera?

[C.J. Miles]

It's been dope, honestly, like, for me, because now the biggest thing is, like, reliving a lot of emotions and things. That's what. Writing has been booming more because, like, I'm in these arenas, but now I'm in there as a witness and not, like, as the thing. Right, right. And being able to see everything going on in the arena and feel it and recognize things and then trigger memories of my own.

[Esperaheny]

The romantic aspect of basketball. Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And that's what it is. Right. I get to be like a kid with the best seat in the house and with his camera, like, you know, so that's what's been fun about it. And then the. The league is as good as it's been in a long time.

[Dave DeFore]

Right?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, listen, this finals was incredible.

[C.J. Miles]

It was amazing. And being able to be in San Antonio for their whole run was amazing.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Okay, so when you're. When you're thinking back on your career, what is the first thing you think of? Like, when you're just like, all right, I'm kicking back. I'm gonna tell a story. Maybe hanging out with your kids. What's the first go to thing that.

[C.J. Miles]

That you remember when we talk. When I talk to my kids or now, I guess I'll say, because there's a lot of talking recently.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure. I don't.

[C.J. Miles]

I saw. Just go. Recency.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

The. Just the difference. Because I just did Ricky transition. Right. So, like, the difference between me and Jared Jack joke, like, our Ricky transition was like being in Guantanamo Bay, like in Secaucus in New Jersey.

[Esperaheny]

And they got all. They got a whole thing now rule

[C.J. Miles]

checks, the whole, like, making like, the whole nine. Right. Yeah. Nothing. Right. And then, like, we've been working with them the last two years. They're doing similar. People coming to talk. We're talking about tech. They got, like, stations.

[Esperaheny]

They got, like, investment opportunities.

[C.J. Miles]

And there was nothing in the summer either. So everything was. Had to be done in that one sitting.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

So that's. That's the biggest thing, just how different it is. And a lot of stories come up with just like some days it's like, man, I wasn't, it wasn't really set up for me to make it through that. Yeah, there was no resources.

[Esperaheny]

This is why I think even like from your perspective right now, what you do creatively as a photographer and, and more, right. Like your spoken word aspect, the videos that you put out on your own Instagram, like, you enjoy telling the story of the league today because you've lived and seen the transition of the league and so there's a beauty to like, oh, look how much we've grown. Do you feel that when you're, when you're making the things that you do?

[C.J. Miles]

Because now like it goes back to me. I get to be my 12 year old self with all these like now I'm in the arena, not just sitting on my living room floor, right? So now like I'm still a fan of all these guys, even if they come up to me and like call me big homie or uncle, whatever they call me. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Who's your favorite player in the league right now to watch? Like, what's your favorite guy?

[Esperaheny]

Damn, you put it in. My loss.

[Dave DeFore]

I know. I mean I'm putting on the spot when this comes out being like, yo, what's wrong?

[C.J. Miles]

Favorite guy has always been hard for me. I didn't even have like a favorite one guy growing up watching. But like, obviously being a Santa Wimby is incredible to watch and it his. He also gave me the challenge of trying to get his whole body in frame. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he's so much different in size. So there's so many pics you get of him. Just half of him or like, yeah, none of him. So like that was cool.

[Esperaheny]

But like you gotta go ultra wide with your shots.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah, yeah. So like, but just watching him, like I tell everybody, like he represents like my imagination when I was playing on the hoop on my door in my bedroom, could do anything, right? He's two steps away from everything. Like, it's amazing to watch. And then you just continue to think about the potential he has. Like, because he's really a four.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, if I'm being honest and like if he's going to be able to play the four in the way we play now is amazing.

[Esperaheny]

It's kind of crazy that he's gotten to MVP level already. Like defense player of the year, obviously. And it still feels like he hasn't figured it out yet. Like he still is just knocking on the door.

[C.J. Miles]

He doesn't. Because he doesn't even have a place on the floor yet. That's like his spot.

[Esperaheny]

That's his spot.

[C.J. Miles]

He didn't have a. He's not even.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, that was the problem

[C.J. Miles]

and the problem. And so I shouldn't call it a problem because it's the greatest problem.

[Esperaheny]

Great problem.

[C.J. Miles]

But, like, when you have a guy like that who could potentially do. Be anything.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

People get nervous about saying, hey, let's just go right here.

[Esperaheny]

Put them in that corner.

[C.J. Miles]

Everybody wants to see what else amazing he could do.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

But you have to start somewhere to finish everywhere.

[Esperaheny]

Like that. Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, everybody started somewhere, and then that gave them the key to the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. And then by year six, now you have everything. But we want it all right now because we see this unlimited potential.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And I think that's what's hard, even as a coach, I would imagine, because, like.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Who tells him not to do anything.

[Esperaheny]

Totally. How do you feel like that's changed since you were in the league? Like, guys being able to be put in a box or put in a role or. Or actually being asked to do something.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, you were in the league for 3 and D. Like, when that was becoming. You were a part of that.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

When they started to, like, really, like, box the things in. Right.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. And be like, you're this archetype or this type.

[C.J. Miles]

But that's. But that's so. So to your. To the point we just made. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

That's what allows us to get to positionless basketball. Because we. Not We. We haven't really truly played positionless basketball yet. We just have small guys doing what sinners do.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But not. It's not. It's not positionless. So everyone's a decision maker. Everyone's a. Like, everyone's a. Got a little bit of point guard in them.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

That's when it's positionless.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

We called it that because we just put small guys that couldn't shoot in center spots. Well, it's not.

[Dave DeFore]

You're saying. Draymond. You know

[C.J. Miles]

what I'm saying? That's not really. He's not. Like, positionless is when there's a Wimby on the floor playing the five, and he's like. That's when it gets.

[Dave DeFore]

Bringing the ball up.

[C.J. Miles]

But to your point, it had to get to a point where we could like. Like, chop it up and specialize. We could see. And then a guy has to transition out of so a 3 and D guy gets better one year and becomes a playmaker. And then like, oh, now we have a guy that can do this, this and this and that.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

We don't have to just be a shooter.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Challenge the shooter to be a better defender. Yeah, Challenge the shooter to play some pick and rolls and then you'll get to position with basketball.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, so what's the biggest change from, you know, like, let' year, 5, 6 of your career? And when you're watching the NBA, like,

[Esperaheny]

Utah days to now. Yeah, yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Pace. There's just so much more opportunity in the game because of the freedom.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, we were like, we're talking about Coach Sloan.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

We're.

[C.J. Miles]

We're playing autos. We're playing the 14 high set. And the ball goes here. Everybody does this, the ball goes there. But there's no reactiveness. There's no instinct is kind of taken away. Right, Right. Like. And that was what was hard for me as a young player. There is because coming out of high school, like, I hoop. So I do, like. And I'm just getting good at it. Like, right. Like, right. Like, I just figured out that I was nice. Obviously, the NBA call. Right. So now I'm like, oh, man, I'm good now. Right. Like. So, like, I'm gonna get better because we're gonna go play basketball. And then you get there and you're like, they're not playing basketball. They're playing the system that they're playing.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

So, like, I would play basketball while they were playing the system, and I would look crazy. There was turnovers. There was, like, rhythm things. And, like, it was like, all right, at some point, either you break the system or the system breaks you. Right, right.

[Dave DeFore]

Learn to exist within the rules.

[C.J. Miles]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Dave DeFore]

And so now you feel like there's just. It's less stifling for these guys.

[C.J. Miles]

Yes. Because the foundation of it is space. And think about what I just said. We're playing Autos, the one for high. Everybody's standing across the elbows.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

There's no space. That's what I'm saying. When I try to do something that requires space. You look crazy.

[Esperaheny]

Right. There's. Now it feels like even on the weak side, there's so much more decision making that happens, like, because you realize

[C.J. Miles]

everybody knows it goes back to what I'm saying. Everybody knows their decisions have a part in the play now.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

The decisions aren't pre made.

[Dave DeFore]

We never used to say two dribbles in a decision when we're talking about Guys, Right. Like, and now, like, you can't be just 3 and D. You got to be able to do at least two dribbles, make a decision and then move. And that wasn't how it was 10 years ago.

[Esperaheny]

It was.

[Dave DeFore]

There's your spot. Stand there. Dude.

[Esperaheny]

Think of like, OG Anunoby in these finals, right? He's, he's the perfect three and D type of player, but he also can put the ball down on the floor. He can get to the basket, guard fives. He can gar fives. He can do like that. I would say creativity maybe is, is being unlocked, but how do you feel about the creativity in the league today?

[C.J. Miles]

I think that there's still some guys trying to figure out how to exist in it, to do it in their roles too.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

That's why we get to this point. People think a lot of guys play the same because they, a lot of guys kind of go to, like you say, two dribble decisions. So, like, it just happens to be that that second dribble is a step back. Right.

[Esperaheny]

Like, do you feel like workout culture is made that way?

[Dave DeFore]

There it is.

[Esperaheny]

Gotcha.

[C.J. Miles]

And, and it's not I against workout culture. I just believe that the game should tell me what to practice.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Not the other way around. Right. So, like, I don't think that a kid at 7 years old, because he's athletic and plays should be taken to a trainer right away. Yeah, yeah, I don't think that.

[Esperaheny]

Just go out and play.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah, just play as much as you can because, like, what happens is you take that kid to the trainer and the trainer starts giving him the answers right before he has any questions.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

So now he goes to play in these games and he's just taking that and just trying to place not enough playground basketball.

[Dave DeFore]

You know what was an interesting example of that? Jason Tatum and Andrew Wiggins have the same trainer. And when the warriors and Celtics played in the finals, it felt like Wiggins knew all of Tatum's moves. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's a real thing. Like, he, he kind of anticipated. Now, part of that is Wiggins is a good defender, but I think there was a little bit of that.

[C.J. Miles]

But I, I, I. And to your point, I do believe that. Again, I know, I, I know some really, really good, good trainers and some guys that are, and they are needed, like, especially the higher you get up and you start to figure out being professional and doing certain things because you need another set of eyes, another perspective.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

That you trust. But there is also A space. Which is why you see a lot of guys training in the summer with four guys in there and making it as live as possible.

[Esperaheny]

Right? Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Those are the guys when you. They make jumps. Even when KD talked about it when he came in, he said, just go play as much as possible.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Against every type of player.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Because that's the information you need. Y. Like the things that the trainer's giving me. It's just from him watching, I'm gonna give you all of Kyrie's moves. So now when you get in the game, you don't need any of Kyrie's moves.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And now you don't have anything that you need.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right.

[C.J. Miles]

You have the beach with a winter coat on. Right. Like, what do we like? You know what I mean?

[Esperaheny]

Summer league is. Is always good for experimentation, too.

[C.J. Miles]

100.

[Esperaheny]

How much do you think this has changed in your time?

[C.J. Miles]

A lot. Right. Like just the platform itself. Right. Like, allows it. And guys, I think it's taken much more seriously too, because of that. Yeah. But I also think that it gives a real feel of it too, because you hear people pooing in there. Like, it gets like they were. Yeah. Like, and coaching wise and offensively wise, we try stuff. Right. Put guys in positions they probably won't play. They may surprise us. Right. Like make them run the point for a few possessions. Make them guard. Make them switch everything. Make them like, give them as much information you can give them beforehand of training camp. Right. Because when you get to the rotation guys and the pros, this is going to be a yes. It's going to be fast.

[Dave DeFore]

The touches are going to dry up.

[C.J. Miles]

Because that's really what slows. People talk about the game slowing down. It's just processing speed because I've seen things pattern recognition. It's not. He's out of shape. He's just doesn't. He just doesn't know.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, absolutely. It's. It's understanding, hey, that guy is tagging at this point. Or like this guy's pinching in to stop this.

[C.J. Miles]

And then you also start the. Realize that a lot of plays in the same. They just start different.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right.

[C.J. Miles]

Right. Like, if Luke is on the floor, we're trying to get him to a pick and roll coming. Right. We might do a handoff in the corner. It's just to get back to that with the defense shifting. Right. We know that. Right. And when you start to see that, you start to position yourself in places that don't require eight steps. They Require two.

[Dave DeFore]

Right, Right. Like, yes.

[C.J. Miles]

You start to understand that you feel like.

[Dave DeFore]

You feel like you would fit into the league today. And if so. And if so, how do you see. See yourself fitting in?

[C.J. Miles]

I would be, obviously, because I can shoot the ball. That's the first thing we're gonna talk about. Yeah, but the things that I talked about in the beginning, in the system, they would have grew. They would have grown more.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like the play. Because people. I came. I was a point guard in high school.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, I was like, the best thing I did in high school was passing. It wasn't shoot.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And a lot of people knew that. It's just when I got the league at that time, remember 2005, 6, there were no shooters.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

That was when the shooting thing started to really come about. People's like, nobody can shoot. So I shot it better than average. So that was what everybody, like, honed in on.

[Dave DeFore]

Right?

[C.J. Miles]

So that's what I honed in on because I wanted to play, of course. But even when I first got to Utah, we had a training camp year where all the point guards got hurt, and they threw me in the point guard position in that spot. I handled the ball in other spots and positions and made decisions. It just became, what do we need? What does your team need? And when you play with Darren Williams, Kyrie Irving, Paul George, Kyle Lowry, DeMar Dero, like, you're not going to be the ball handler.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I was actually. And this was while we were. I was cooking up the plays earlier to see, like, what. What highlight plays I could point out to you. I feel like your athleticism would really pop in this league, too, because of the transition play and how much that they are running now in transition. Like, you. You caught a lot of bodies.

[C.J. Miles]

We just talked about this at the game the other day. But also, crazy enough, yesterday, one of my OAU teammates shout out to Jordan, I don't know if he's gonna see this, but he sent me a clip of them talking about me at the summer nigga John Wall was on the broadcast, and I dapped him up.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And he was like, we just saw C.J. with a camera. And they was like, he could really shoot it. And then John was like, no, before that, he used to get to the rim. Right? Like, and a lot of people don't because we talked about. I played through the crossover into social media. So, like, the first half of my career is kind of like. It probably looks grainy if you go.

[Dave DeFore]

It is a little grainy.

[C.J. Miles]

It is a little grainy. So like and there's so many standard defin like there's so many plays and so many like like I was a live threat. I used to back door off of my screen a waves like yeah,

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Esperaheny]

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[Dave DeFore]

I'm Paul Tanorio. I cover soccer for the Athletic.

[C.J. Miles]

And I'm Amy Lawrence.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I cover football for the Athletic.

[Dave DeFore]

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[C.J. Miles]

in the sport is happening right now.

[Dave DeFore]

And the athletics World cup coverage has

[C.J. Miles]

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[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[C.J. Miles]

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[Dave DeFore]

Maybe you're the kind of person who's already up early every week, weekend, waking the neighbors when your favorite club scores. We'll make sure you get equipped with more information, more insight than anyone.

[C.J. Miles]

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[Dave DeFore]

I almost forgot to mention the best part, Amy. Free access to the Athletics World cup

[C.J. Miles]

coverage in our app. Download the athletic app and see you there.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the league, because I want to get your opinion on some of this stuff. Hot button issue right now. Jalen Brown was just traded from the Celtics to the 76ers. The value conversation around players, in my opinion, is just kind of out of whack. And it's. Obviously, I don't want to get into the CBA stuff that's driving this, but what you think about this process with the Celtics and feeling like they almost dumped Jalen Brown? What did you think about that?

[C.J. Miles]

I don't like the way it was done. Like, if you wanted to move and move them.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But let's not go and do the value thing.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, that's not lack.

[Esperaheny]

Like, what, the media thing.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. Let's not do it that way. Like, there's no reason for it. Like, if y' all got a disagreement about something or you don't like something else, just say that and keep it moving. We don't have to play this game of, like, try to justify yourself.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

In another way to trade. Just say, we don't think it's going to work.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But don't go around saying, we think that Derek was better and these things, and that's. No, I love Derek. Really, really good at what he does. Absolutely. But that guy is that guy Finals mvp. That's what I'm saying.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And we gonna act like, yeah, that was a. That led a 2C team last year.

[Esperaheny]

I feel like he is also at the point in his career where he's grown to the point and he understands, like, his role, his position in the league. So having these type of conversations with him now compared to when it was six, seven years ago, and it was. He might be getting traded for KD or Anthony Davis or whatever it was. This is a different type of Jalen Brown you're talking about now. You know what I mean?

[C.J. Miles]

I. I don't think, like, he has to. He has to understand. He understands where he stands and, like, Tom, like. And not just, like, on the floor. Off the floor.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

With the guys coming up behind him. How guys are able to move. Like. Yeah. It's a radical thing at this point, and not in, like, the bad way where he's trying to burn everything down. He's just showcasing, like, you can do this this way.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. Indy. When it comes to, like the quote unquote analytics conversation, though, I've. We've talked about this before.

[Dave DeFore]

I think that the numbers have a hard time with guys that are Jalen Brown. Right. If you're the best player on the team.

[Esperaheny]

But it's also like the analytics, the numbers, they are a tool in the toolbox. They're not.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

Toolbox, you know, so how do you think that also, what do you think the sentiment is around the league when it comes to players that you talk.

[C.J. Miles]

Players don't like. Yeah, like, we get it.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, and I understand it, and it is a tool to like. And I understand why you start to try to get more efficient. You want to get better, you want to make better decisions. I understand that. But, like, at the same time. So first I'll say is you don't get to choose what team by team, what they value. Right, Right. And that's fine, which is why I say that too. Like, if you don't value the way he plays, say that. But don't try to say he's not a good player or like, he's this. But, like, say we want to go a different direction and we want to play a certain way, and we think that this move helps us do that.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, that's a.

[C.J. Miles]

That's fine.

[Esperaheny]

Very different conversation.

[C.J. Miles]

That's a very different conversation.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

But I also, I look at analytics. Like, we talk analytics come after the game.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

So, like, the people that crunch a lot of numbers could not watch any basketball games and then come in and make decisions on guys based off these numbers.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And they would not even be able to, like. And what this also does is takes the power out of the player. It just becomes a conversation about numbers. And now guys that are not as good as we say they are can say they are. Or, like, you'll look at numbers and they'll say, well, this guy's the best guy in the league.

[Esperaheny]

Right? Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And you watch the game, and that's why fans are mad, because the numbers and the eye test don't match up.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

If I watch a guy not play both sides of the ball, if I watch a guy's body language be bad. I watch a guy do this, and, yeah, he might have 30 in the game.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But what's the.

[Esperaheny]

What's the benefit of that?

[C.J. Miles]

And do they win? Because we can also take analytics from a losing guys.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And he's amazing. And you would show it compared to something else. It was like, should they switch and would they be better if we switched them?

[Esperaheny]

Right, right. No.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, on off conversations is the funniest thing to me because it just completely throws out the fact that it'll be Jalen Brown and like four. Four bench players.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

They're gonna maybe lose a lot of those minutes. But that's his job is to buy.

[Esperaheny]

It's also. But the on off stuff is like, who are you subbing out? 4 is also like.

[C.J. Miles]

So that's the point. Right. Like analytics don't see that. Analytics just see that there's a dip in the numbers in that time.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

It doesn't matter. There's no context to it.

[Dave DeFore]

Right. And you just lost in those.

[C.J. Miles]

You just get to weaponize it. Right. Like, and you can. And we know this for a long time, you can use stats any way you want.

[Esperaheny]

Really.

[C.J. Miles]

Plus minus is the same used to be the thing with plus minus.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Like.

[Esperaheny]

Yep.

[C.J. Miles]

There's guys who play horrible games and have positive.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Because they.

[C.J. Miles]

On the floor before other guys.

[Esperaheny]

We cover the league on a night to night basis.

[C.J. Miles]

It's 100, 100 and vice versa. Guys who have a. Who just happen to be in the game when the other team goes on a run.

[Esperaheny]

Yes. And it was like minus 15.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Okay. Do you feel like, because I know you, you've now entered the media space. What do you think the media can do better to cover the league?

[C.J. Miles]

Unfortunately, a lot of them can't do it because they don't know basketball. They don't really watch the games.

[Esperaheny]

Fair enough.

[C.J. Miles]

The thing that they really need to do, they can't do it, which is really talk about the game.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

But they can't talk about the game. Which is why we have. Which is another reason why analytics is so big.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Because it tells you we could just skip the basketball part.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

It's like, he's not good. Look.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Not like, did you watch the game?

[Esperaheny]

It's crazy. I see that so much on.

[C.J. Miles]

You know what I mean? So like. And then the other thing is like for me as a player, which is another reason why I got into it is like understanding, just understanding guys. Like. Like there's a human factor still to this. Even if there is the separation of that.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Leading the thing, it's still a human thing. Right. And it's still someone's human experience.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Even if it's only 450 of them.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

They're still people. Yeah. And that's the thing that I think. And I don't mean in the cliche way. Let's follow them around for a day. Like, I mean, but just like take that into account when you're writing about them on a daily basis.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

They have bad days.

[C.J. Miles]

They have bad days.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

You're gonna. We write bad articles. People burn burgers in McDonald's. Like, this happens.

[Esperaheny]

Yes.

[C.J. Miles]

And like at the end of. So one of the things I used to talk about with young guys all the time, it's like at the end of the year, if you shoot 40% from the three, you're a 40% shooter. Those 10 games that you shot 20% that everybody's talking about, like, don't let that. And they attack you and attack. What if he's never going to be or he's not that he's not working. They start to find reasons. They make up narratives to say, well, why isn't it working? I'm like, bro, just finish the year.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, just finish the.

[Dave DeFore]

It's 82 games. This is a great line of thinking. And I'm curious. It's an 82 game season and then you played a lot of playoff games. Games. Like, how different is that? Like your approach from, from getting through the regular season and then once you get to the playoffs, like that has to change.

[C.J. Miles]

And that's the other mindset. Yes. And that's the other reason why I hate the analytics talk, especially in the playoffs. Because playoff basketball is the game. Right. Like, I don't.

[Esperaheny]

It doesn't matter.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. And the most trusted players are going to be on the floor whether he's 1 for 10 or not. Do I trust that guy is what makes him on the floor. And it's going to be harder because we're not going to be able to run the sets, guys. The other team has your analytics too. So if he's a 40% right, three point shooter, guess what shot he's not getting.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Right. Like, so, like we have to play basketball.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And that's why the better teams in the playoffs are teams that play like that during the season because they're equipped for it.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

The teams that are heavy set runners. It's hard in the playoffs.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like we talked about with. You've been scouted. Yeah. Like, and if you have. No, if your creative button has to get flipped on, it's too late.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

Who do you feel like you learned from the most when you were in the league about those aspects, like flipping that switch, being ready.

[C.J. Miles]

The person who really started for me was Earl Watson.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh.

[Esperaheny]

Oh.

[C.J. Miles]

When he came to Utah. Right. And he used to always just be like. Because I was coming off the bench with him at that time.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

He'd be like, be aggressive. Be aggressive. I was like, I feel like I'm being aggressive within what I was able to be. But he was like, no, be aggressive. Because his thing was like, you're gonna make the right decision. Your instinct is. But if I let you think, like, we're wasting time. We don't have time to think. We have to play.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

So we practice for.

[Esperaheny]

So we can play. You hear, Be aggressive so much. But what does that even mean?

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. And it was just. And it's not shoot the ball. It's just like, listen to what the game's telling you. Right? Make the play. And then if the guy cuts you off, make the pass. He doesn't dunk it, whatever it is. Right. But, like, allow yourself that instead of just standing on the wing looking for someone else to do that.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And that's why a lot of offensive plays used to die in our time, because guys weren't decision makers.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And they've been told not to be.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And they'd have to find someone else to give it.

[Dave DeFore]

We would call you a 0.5 decision maker now. Right. Like, that's. That's what we say.

[Esperaheny]

And there's a lot of systems out there.

[Dave DeFore]

That's why you were plug and play.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah, that's why I was able to do it. Because I had. I learned that. So when I left, when Earl did that, and because Earl was funny, because we would come off the bench and we would be in a huddle, like at a free throw or something, and like, like coach might be calling, like, 44, whatever in the system we gonna, like, just run. Right. Because if I get it thrown ahead, we don't have to do that. Right. Like, if we don't get nothing, then we'll get to that.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And he was the first guy that really rebelled on that. And we played so much faster and freer because of that. And then I went to Cleveland and it was Kyrie show with Byron Scott. The first year, first introduction to, like, the big above offense with the big trailing going into the dribble, handoffs and all that.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And that just like turned everything back on long.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

That feels like the patent thing. So many NBA teams run is the trailing, big five out, delay action, pacers

[Dave DeFore]

like that, that run that they made.

[C.J. Miles]

But think about it. I had been in. That was my seventh season. I had never done that.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow. Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Now it's common like, you see every single day.

[C.J. Miles]

And it changed. It reminded everybody else how, again, how athletic I was again. Because I was getting downhill off handoffs and I was doing all these other things, curling up.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Not just a shooter.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Right. Do you ever get the itch to, like. Like, play again?

[Dave DeFore]

Get.

[Esperaheny]

Get.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

When was the last time you played?

[C.J. Miles]

You. You run?

[Dave DeFore]

You playing?

[C.J. Miles]

It's been a while since I played a run, but that's just because the last two summers, I got really busy with this. Up until last summer, I was playing.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. I was hooping.

[Dave DeFore]

You. Are you making anything while you're here at summer league? You making a little maybe spoken word video?

[C.J. Miles]

So with me that you. I'll know that on the play ride home tonight, right? Like, because I'll have time to stop and digest and then it'll tell me, like, an angle will pop up.

[Esperaheny]

Whatever emotion hits you in that moment,

[C.J. Miles]

and I see stuff. So really just. That's what photography helps with, too, right? Like, just being able to capture moments, things that catch my eye pop up and just being in tune with the game. And then I look through the pictures, I get, like. I see stuff that I didn't really even see in real time. It's like watching film, right?

[Esperaheny]

100%. Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And. But, yeah, and then touching base with the young guys because I work with Ricky's transition, so, like, they see me on the sidelines and stuff more, and it just makes it easier, I think, for them to see a guy, like, just around that doesn't want anything but knows you can. You can come talk to them, ask questions, because we got guys for everything.

[Esperaheny]

That's really cool.

[C.J. Miles]

There's wellness guy.

[Esperaheny]

There's this guy.

[C.J. Miles]

There's a S guy.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

I know he's gonna make me do something, and I'm just kind of just

[Esperaheny]

like, you can have.

[C.J. Miles]

Right? Like, what's up, man? How you doing?

[Dave DeFore]

You've been through it, and there's not that many of y' all that have played in the league, right?

[C.J. Miles]

Like, it's like 5, 000 something ever, right?

[Esperaheny]

It is a brotherhood, man. That is. That's the craziest part. It's not that many players who played in the league. Do you. Do you have a favorite that you've seen so far in terms of games? You talked about the young guys. Is there one guy that the young guys.

[C.J. Miles]

I mean, I love Dylan Harper. I think he's really, really dynamic. I think he's really good. And I. I just think it's really funny how the spurs like, is shaping up to be like, Manu Tim and like, you know, the exact archetypes and like.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Being like Mario Elliot or whoever you want to call him.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like this Danny Green.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, or even go back to Derek Anderson's. And like, all the guys, they always find guys that just. It. Just feel it.

[Esperaheny]

Right. Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And then he's awesome.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Kind of thing. I mean, anybody.

[Dave DeFore]

What about summer league?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

What about this.

[C.J. Miles]

This crazy rookie? I mean, so not a rookie, but I love Trey.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, yeah?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. But I've known him too good to

[Dave DeFore]

be at summer league.

[Esperaheny]

He's a guy they were about to shut down.

[C.J. Miles]

He's probably gonna play three games.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Obviously, AJ was really good also.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

I saw. I've seen DP a couple times in Utah. I went up to Utah summer league, saw him, I thought what was funny about their game is that DP did what I thought AJ was going to do because DP had already played three games.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

So he was kind of like, he's kind of settled. I thought A.J. was going to be like, searching a little bit. And DP did it. And AJ looked like he was just kind of like, kind of felons. But maybe having Trey and what's the other. Oh, yeah. Play really well. Yeah. So, like, maybe that helps too.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure.

[C.J. Miles]

Who else? Golden State. I keep forgetting kids. He looks good.

[Dave DeFore]

He's got good size.

[Esperaheny]

He's, like, grown.

[Dave DeFore]

If he's gonn shoot it like. Like he has in summer league.

[Esperaheny]

I think that's.

[C.J. Miles]

And that's the tail. Right. Because shooting, it's just. It's confidence. Right. So, like, coming into the season, are you going to carry that confidence with the other guys that are on the floor? Not just because you feel like you're better?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Like, Steph Curry's out there taking a shot.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Is there. Is there any. Have you ever seen an NBA player and you're like, oh, that kind of reminds me of me. It doesn't have to be in summer league.

[C.J. Miles]

I'm trying to think so not as much of late. Because movement, shooting is not a thing.

[Dave DeFore]

Really.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And that was what I turned into. Like, that's why I was able to play two through four also because I could slip. I could. And guys slip on stuff and get shots, but, like, really, like, running guys around off screens because, like, I took it as. We're so pick and roll heavy now.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

My pin and waves was my pick and roll. Yeah, it's the same thing.

[Esperaheny]

It was your. It was your way to get into

[C.J. Miles]

a decision making play.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And now we. Now the guys that do it, it. It's either they get a shot off of it or it's just a pitch it back to the point guard. It's really that. Yeah, it's just a pitch it back to get into an empty side pick and roll on the other side. It's not used even when you watch guys go get the ball. They don't. They don't go get the ball to score every time.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Go get it to get into whatever.

[Esperaheny]

I will say to that point though, I feel like, yeah, we saw this last year. Like pick and rolls are trending down. Like they're not running it as much anymore. Like two, three years ago they were

[C.J. Miles]

running it a ton.

[Esperaheny]

It was crazy. Now it's like slowly we're starting to see a little.

[Dave DeFore]

I think it's this, you know, you talked about pace. I think it's the league wants to play faster. Yeah, players want to play faster. I think the coaches that are want to play faster. Right. You got full court ball pressure now, which is. That wasn't a thing in the league 10 years ago. Right. Like you gotta.

[C.J. Miles]

But I think that's something that has to happen when you have these ball dominant guys that run. Like we have to be able to negate them.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And that negates that.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like that. Luke is not going to want to deal with that all year. Right. Like, yeah, it's three guys switching off over picking him up. Like, because he's not gonna just beat you back there and attack the bat. That's not how he plays. Yeah. It's like it's a little jitterbug guy that you're worried about going and breaking. He's not.

[Esperaheny]

So I gotta get another like Reeves on the ball. Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And then like you feel like if you can defer whoever the best decision maker is, make him defer to another one.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And then if we can make him defer to another way at least in the beginning of the possession. Now when they do get it back, they have to get right into whatever. They don't have time to survey and do the whole thing. Things they do.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. What's, what's your like favorite storyline or thing you're watching for for next season?

[C.J. Miles]

A couple, actually.

[Esperaheny]

Okay.

[C.J. Miles]

First of all, I'm a big fan of like the young guys in New Orleans and I think New Orleans is like they've been really close to like that thing like health is. Yeah, they're right.

[Dave DeFore]

Big part.

[C.J. Miles]

Like because that's a good basketball team. It's just. And I like, Moe's going over there.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

And then Halliburton coming back.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes.

[C.J. Miles]

In Indy.

[Esperaheny]

That'll be great.

[C.J. Miles]

Utah in general, just that whole situation, like, is. And I'm a little biased to that too, because I've been firsthand, I've been watching. We called it, though.

[Esperaheny]

They're going to be a playoff team

[C.J. Miles]

and that's what I.

[Dave DeFore]

And how do you feel about Keonte and. And Peterson together?

[C.J. Miles]

I think. I think it's good because neither one of them are actually point guards. Like, he averaged a lot of assists last year because, like, there's some. It was gross for him and. But he's not a point guard.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

He's what we're talking about with traditional basket. They like to run those two guards all high and cut off the bigs. Those two out.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

I think it's amazing because I think they both play well off the ball. They both handle it well enough. And I thought that DP was a better spot. Utah is better for him because of that reason.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

AJ's a little bit more ISO.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like, he's a little bit more. He's going to be in the mid post. He's going to be. He's going to be that. I think DP plays really, really well off the ball and that helps with the way they run their offense.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

You have Triple J, you have Laura, you have all these guys.

[Dave DeFore]

A couple play finishers. Yeah. Anything else?

[Esperaheny]

I actually have a question I can't not ask you about Toronto, bro. Ye Kawhi. They might get Kawhi. We'll see. Reports are happening. What do you think about like, this group that they have moving forward?

[C.J. Miles]

It eerily reminds me of the way it was happening when I got there. Like, you came in, right? The young guys coming up, guy already there that can help you win. I E. Scotty Barnes. Like, RJ's there. Like you got. You have pieces and they just shown promise, right?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

And like this is love beyond. But like, obviously Kawhi instills like injects a different kind of confidence coming in because that lets those guys know that that team is thinking about winning right now.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

That's the other thing that changes.

[Esperaheny]

It's go time mindset.

[C.J. Miles]

Yeah. And the other guys on the team is like, this is the window.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Why else would you go get Kawhi?

[Dave DeFore]

Right?

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Because bi. If you. Because BI is no chump. Right. So if you're going. If you're trying to upgrade the Best guy.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

You want to win right now.

[Esperaheny]

You think you have a chance.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean you add an all NBA guy.

[C.J. Miles]

Exactly.

[Dave DeFore]

And especially if he's like this this coming season.

[C.J. Miles]

That's what I'm saying. He's a machine and he's coming into familiarity. Training staff knows how to deal with him. City loves him like he's. And the confidence is going to give him going back there also.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[C.J. Miles]

Like yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean and the fit there. There's a lot of. There's a lot of really good stuff

[C.J. Miles]

and it's just a good organization too. They do things right. I love Bobby.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[C.J. Miles]

Like shout out to Shelby over there too. G league and everything. Like Shelby's my like everybody. That whole organization is really, really good.

[Esperaheny]

Hey listen, if you, if you need to. If you're ever in the mood to like shoot the baske again. They need an exhibit 10.

[C.J. Miles]

So I said everybody. So this is said to me a lot.

[Dave DeFore]

Maybe you could probably shooting.

[C.J. Miles]

And I tell everybody the same thing. I was like as long as I can, as long as I have to change ends, I'm fine. So if you just want to play five point line to three point line

[Esperaheny]

you just cherry pick on the other side.

[C.J. Miles]

If you want to play 5 on 4 defensively right now or give me a year. Yeah. And I can talk to but by the time that year gets up, you're halfway have somebody.

[Esperaheny]

Bobby, you heard him, man.

[Dave DeFore]

There you go. C.J. miles, man. Thank you buddy. I appreciate you man. This was awesome. Guys. That's gonna do it for the show. Thank you to C.J. miles for hanging out with us. For Esperani and C.J. miles, I'm Dave Duor and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode if you enjoyed it. Dropped drop a like leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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