Did the Bucks do enough to keep Giannis?

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: "Did the Bucks Do Enough to Keep Giannis?" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 3, 2025

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Introduction and Key Moves

[02:33] Dave DeFore opens the episode by highlighting significant offseason developments, including the Lakers' acquisition of Deandre Ayton and the potential appointment of Mike Brown as the New York Knicks' new head coach. The primary focus, however, centers on the Milwaukee Bucks' bold move to "wave and stretch" star player Giannis Antetokounmpo, which has sent shockwaves through the NBA landscape.

Deandre Ayton's Signing with the Lakers

[04:01] Eric Name delves into the Lakers' recent signing of Deandre Ayton. Despite Ayton being bought out by the Portland Trail Blazers for $35.6 million and subsequently signing a two-year, $16 million contract with the Lakers, financial implications remain favorable for the Bucks.

“He’s going to end up making $34 million... includes a player option in the second year. Player options are getting tossed like candy throughout the NBA right now.” [04:25]

[05:07] Dave DeFore expresses mixed feelings about Ayton's fit, praising his versatile skill set but questioning his consistency and effort on the court.

“When I watch him it’s just... Do you even want to be here?” [04:37]

Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Future and the "Wave and Stretch" Strategy

[16:02] After a brief advertising break, Dave DeFore re-engages with Eric Name to discuss the Bucks' unprecedented decision to waive Giannis and adopt the "wave and stretch" approach. This strategy involves stretching Giannis' contract to manage salary cap implications while keeping him on the team.

[16:27] Guest Analyst provides an in-depth analysis of Bucks' General Manager John Horst's aggressive moves to retain Giannis' allegiance by signing Miles Turner to a lucrative four-year, $107 million deal.

“John Horst was like, all right, that’s what we’re going to do. And I think this is a summer where they could not have fewer assets.” [17:32]

Analyzing the Miles Turner Signing

[25:05] The conversation shifts to Miles Turner's trade from the Indiana Pacers to the Bucks. The Guest Analyst contrasts Turner with Brook Lopez, emphasizing Turner's youth and versatility as significant upgrades.

“Miles Turner is not... he’s eight years younger than Brook Lopez. That is a significant difference.” [26:45]

[28:24] Eric Name highlights the strategic fit Miles Turner provides, aligning with Giannis' evolving playstyle that emphasizes floor spacing and modern guard play.

“Giannis has mentioned he wants to play this more five out style with shooters around him... Turns out Turner plays into that.” [28:24]

The New York Knicks and Mike Brown’s Potential Impact

[09:44] Dave DeFore introduces the speculation surrounding Mike Brown potentially becoming the Knicks' new head coach. He anticipates a discussion with James Edwards on the upcoming episode to explore the implications further.

“At least not official as of our recording, but it does appear as if Mike Brown is going to be the next head coach of the New York Knicks.” [09:44]

[11:00] Guest Analyst elaborates on how Mike Brown could optimize the Knicks' lineup, particularly the synergy between Ben Simmons and Jalen Brunson, drawing parallels with his successful tenure coaching the Pacers.

“Mike Brown could do that... he can do something similar.” [11:00]

Giannis as the De Facto Point Guard

[28:58] The hosts discuss the increased responsibility on Giannis to act as the primary playmaker for the Bucks, especially in the absence of a traditional point guard like Damian Lillard.

“Undeniably like Giannis is going to be point Giannis, like that is going to be how all of this works.” [30:00]

[31:11] Guest Analyst emphasizes Giannis' adaptability and potential to mirror Nikola Jokic’s playmaking abilities, positioning him as a three-time MVP candidate.

“If we start next season... being able to add another MVP, which is really difficult to do once you get to this age.” [32:34]

Impact on the Eastern Conference Standings

[34:28] The discussion shifts to the Bucks' positioning within the Eastern Conference, with predictions placing them between the 4th and 7th seeds. Concerns about the team's depth and potential weak links are raised, especially in comparison to teams like the Hawks and Magic.

“I think it's a big believer now more than ever in the weak link theory... So that's a concern when you look at teams like the Hawks and the Magic.” [34:46]

[36:44] Guest Analyst concludes that while the Bucks are in the middle tier of the East, their performance will heavily depend on how well Giannis and the newly acquired Miles Turner can synergize.

“There's a bunch of teams in that area, striking distance.” [36:55]

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[38:14] Dave DeFore wraps up the episode by thanking Eric Name and Esfandiar Baraheni for their insights, encouraging listeners to stay updated with The Athletic's coverage.

“Thanks to Eric Name for hanging out with us. Thanks to Esfandiar, as always. I'm Dave DeFore and this has been the NBA Daily.” [37:50]

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Notable Quotes

• Dave DeFore: “Do you even want to be here?” [04:37]
• Guest Analyst: “John Horst was like, all right, that’s what we’re going to do.” [17:32]
• Eric Name: “Giannis has mentioned he wants to play this more five out style with shooters around him.” [28:24]
• Guest Analyst: “If we start next season... being able to add another MVP, which is really difficult to do once you get to this age.” [32:34]

Key Insights and Conclusions

• Bucks' Bold Strategy: The Milwaukee Bucks have taken an aggressive stance to retain Giannis Antetokounmpo by waiving him and adopting the "wave and stretch" strategy, signaling commitment to building a championship-contending roster.

• Miles Turner as a Strategic Acquisition: Signing Miles Turner provides the Bucks with a younger, versatile center who fits the modern NBA's emphasis on floor spacing and perimeter shooting, aligning with Giannis' evolving role as a primary playmaker.

• Impact on Team Dynamics: The potential hiring of Mike Brown by the Knicks and the Bucks' roster changes reflect a broader trend in the NBA towards optimizing team chemistry and playstyle flexibility.

• Eastern Conference Outlook: While the Bucks remain a strong contender, their success will hinge on the effective integration of new players and Giannis' leadership in a more playmaking-focused role. Depth and addressing weak links will be crucial as they navigate a competitive Eastern Conference.

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily provides a comprehensive analysis of the Milwaukee Bucks' strategic moves in retaining their superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo, the implications of signing Miles Turner, and the broader impact on the Eastern Conference landscape. Through insightful discussions and expert opinions, listeners gain a deep understanding of the Bucks' current trajectory and their potential to remain a formidable force in the NBA.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for July 3, 2025 coming up. Oh, the Ayton has landed. The Lakers got their man. Mike Brown might be the coach of the Knicks. We're not sure. Eric Naim is here to talk to us about all the details behind the Damian Lillard wave and stretch by the Bucks and signing of Miles Turner. Good morning everybody. Good morning.

[Eric Name]

S. Good morning. That was a mouthful.

[Dave DeFore]

That.

[Eric Name]

A lot of stuff happening.

[Guest Analyst]

A lot.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, listen, it's supposed to be the off season, man. Yeah, I got a lot of my plate. I feel like I've been reading as much as I, I would be, you know, during the regular season. This week the Athletic been on fire obviously. John Hollinger, by the way, appreciate him explaining every single bit of cat minutiae on every deal the new cba. I'm not as good at this new CBA as I was on the last one because I don't teach it like I used to. And now that, now that my good friend Larry Coon is out of the CBA business, I don't get the inside information.

[Eric Name]

A little nitty gritty.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, well there's, there's.

[Eric Name]

So basically every day I'm learning something new about this. Like you find a new little exception or something.

[Dave DeFore]

Something.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. And speaking of new Lakers got a new center dominating. They signed deandre Ayton who of course was, was bought out by, by the Portland Trailblazers a couple days ago, but he's actually not really losing any money this season. Is that correct?

[Eric Name]

S. Yeah. So he's basically. He got bought out of his $35.6 million contract. He's going to end up making 34 million. When you take into consideration what Portland is going to play him, pay him. Plus the 2 year 16 million dollar contract that he signed with the Lakers, which includes a player option in the second year. Player options are getting tossed like candy throughout the NBA right now.

[Dave DeFore]

Fake player. Player option. Right. Like fake player. You expect he'll opt out after the year.

[Eric Name]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

And that other 1.6 that's just floating around out there, that's just in the ether.

[Eric Name]

Yes.

[Dave DeFore]

It's gone.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

How do you look? I'm not sure you want DeAndre Aiden because I'm not sure I've been up and down on him. I mean I loved him coming into the NBA because how could you not? You watch him run up and down the court and the guy, I mean he looks like a prototypical, you know, NBA big man that can do everything. He's got great hands, he's got that great 15 foot mid range jumper. He's a good free throw shooter. Yeah, he can rebound like he's got a nice little post hook game. I mean he, he's a good passer when he wants to be but it's just, it's. It's all motor for me with him. Like when I watch him it's just. Do you even want to be here? Yeah. Yeah.

[Eric Name]

I think of the 20, 21 run sons finals run where he was massive. I think he was an integral part to leading them to the finals there. He was huge in the first couple of games of that finals too. If you remember the alley oop that he had. Yeah, he was so important because he had bought in on the defensive side of the ball.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Eric Name]

He was protecting the rim more. He was just more aggressive at getting to the basket offensively. I think that's one thing that bothers me. When watching Ayton, especially in Portland it was like a lot of shots are floaters around the basket or he's not trying to dominate and you know, he.

[Dave DeFore]

Dropped step and attack the basket ever from it. He's never putting his shoulder into that run with. Against the Bucks too. Like that actually kind of cost him the series. Is this the. The lack of physicality and avoidance of physical contact?

[Eric Name]

Oh my God. I have a crazy stat for you. Guess how many free throws DeAndre Ayton attempted per game last year for the Portland Trailblaz. Just, just you know, throw out a number.

[Dave DeFore]

Less than two.

[Eric Name]

Less than two. One and a half. One and a half free throws. Actually both of his years in Portland it was one and a half. So the last two years he has barely gotten to the free throw line. For a guy who's 7 foot. For a guy whose literal nickname is dominating, that is incredible to me.

[Dave DeFore]

Literal self given nickname. Okay, let's, let's just do that. Okay. Look, guy plays a lot of Call of Duty. We know. And luckily in la, no snow days. So none of those concerns.

[Eric Name]

Let's be real. It is a talent upgrade for the Lakers who were rolling with Jackson Hayes and you know, like didn't really have a starting center to roll with last year when they made the trade for Anthony. Well, basically for Luka Doncic. I think it's a talent upgrade. I think him and Luka will work well and roles. It's just about buy in. And personally, Dave, I cannot wait to see how frustrated JJ Redick or LeBron James get in certain moments because you know it's going to happen. You know it's going to happen.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, well, you know, again, if, if he just goes out there and plays hard, I think we're going to see a guy who we're going to say, wow, where's this guy been? But it's all about effort from him. That's it. He's got the skill, he's got the obviously the physical gifts and talent. Just buying playing with Luca is going to help him. I mean, obviously I'm really interested to see how that works. I, I do say it's funny that you say LeBron. It's going to get frustrated with them because I don't know, man, I'm starting.

[Eric Name]

To feel like LeBron, where there's smoke, there's fire.

[Dave DeFore]

Is that I know if LeBron's going to be on this team by the time we get to the season, much less finish the season on this team. I'm not like it's pretty okay. Well, let me, let me ask, I.

[Eric Name]

Think everybody, what's your, what's your favorite team for him to get traded to? Because he has a no trade. CL Claws basically can't get traded unless he says he's down to go. So who, who would you want him to go?

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, I think Cleveland just like number one. The obviously the storyline of that going back to Cleveland again makes a lot of sense, but I think the fit works. They could use a ball handler like LeBron. I mean this is still a guy who's all NBA level talent as a player. I mean, who would you rather have in the playoffs? You know, would you rather have LeBron or like Darius Garland? I think I still choose LeBron. And I mean so there's a world in which that works, but then you're tearing down, you know, your 64 win team to acquire LeBron to do it. I just don't know. I mean, what do you give up for LeBron James knowing, number one, he's an expiring contract and could leave. Yeah, but he's also the guy is going to be 41 in December.

[Eric Name]

Yeah, this is unpredictable. It's unprecedented. And also it's like how can you rationalize gutting a 64 win team for a guy who is to be 41 once the season starts? So like I look, they have to get out of the second apron. That's one hurdle here for the Cavs to be able to do it. So it has to be like Jared Allen, maybe Darius Garland, including one of Max Schuss or Dean Wade or something to make the salaries work and get them out of the second apron before they do it. We were just talking about the cba, like, that's the new hurdles that the Cavs will have to come across to try to get this guy.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know.

[Eric Name]

I like the fit. I think the story makes a lot of sense. It would be poetic for him to play for Cleveland. I also think the fit, basketball wise, is great because a jumbo playmaker to have Donovan Mitchell playoff ball, to have Evan Mobley behind him as a rim protector makes all the sense in the world.

[Dave DeFore]

Also the Knicks, though, you know. Yeah, they got some news. Yes, yes. At least not official as of our recording, but it does appear as if Mike Brown is going to be the next head coach of the New York Knicks. We're going to get James Edwards on the show tomorrow to talk more in detail about what this is going to look like, you know, especially as a team. But, man, I mean, I'll tell you, LeBron on the Knicks, it. It's doable.

[Eric Name]

Yeah, I mean, yes, it absolutely is. It definitely is doable.

[Dave DeFore]

Would they not be the favorites to go to the finals out of the east if they traded for LeBron James? Especially now, I mean, knowing there's a relationship there with Mike Brown, like, you know what I mean, these guys know each other pretty well. Did you stuff that LeBron likes to run? I mean, Mike Brown loves to run that stuff.

[Eric Name]

Absolutely. Have you, have you watched the pitch video that the Knicks made for LeBron in 2010? Have you watched that? No. Just for anybody who's listening right now, go out and YouTube.

[Dave DeFore]

I'll make a point to watch the pitch.

[Eric Name]

It's a great, great video. Look, I guess it makes sense. Even if they don't trade for LeBron. I am interested in the Mike Brown hire just because of the fact that, look, the main question we've had last season for the Knicks was how are they going to maximize Cat and Brunson together?

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Eric Name]

And we just saw Mike Brown maximize Fox and Sabonis together. It obviously ran.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Eric Name]

Two lesser players. Absolutely. It ran his course, but I think he can do something similar.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, the limitations that Sabonis has, I just think, look, if he can convince Carl Anthony Towns to actually be a higher volume shooter from three, it's a game changer. And look, he got Sabonis shooting threes. Sabonis is not a good three point shooter. I think with Carl Anthony Towns you can get a positive feedback loop there where the success that they will have with him, you know, he just needs to be at like seven a game, you know, look more like Nas Reed a little bit and open things up for the rest of those guys. I think Mike Brown could do that. You know, it's, it's. I will say you never know what it's going to be like going from one coach to the, to the next. But going from Tom Thibodeau to Mike Brown, it at least seems like your floor is pretty similar. I think that you're not going to experience a huge drop off. Mike Brown knows how to coach up a defense. It's. I am very curious what they do offensively though because they, they need to figure it out because Brunson and Cat are not going to defend well together, period. That, that is a personality.

[Eric Name]

You're not Yabu Selly too. So like that it's, it's not like those guys are going to be defending their tails off either. So you're leaning heavily to the offensive side of the ball. And that, that was the vision last year too. It's like this team needs to be one of the best, if not the best offensive team for them to reach their ceiling. Maybe Mike Brown can do that with this roster.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. And then look, and if they went and traded for LeBron, they'd be even better.

[Eric Name]

It would be awesome. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

You know what, I'm in now. We're just starting rumors here. That's what we're doing. Speaking of, we're starting rumors after the break with Eric Naim on what the Bucks might do next. But he broke down the Miles Turner signing and how the Damian Lillard situation played out. So you guys enjoyed that.

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[Dave DeFore]

After a few weeks of rumors and innuendo that maybe Giannis Antetokounmpo would ask for a trade, the bucks Shocked the NBA world by waving and stretching. Damian Lillard, the largest wave and stretch in NBA history. Here to talk about it, our good buddy Eric Name who. I know you're just loving all the extra work thrown on your plate. How's your CBA knowledge at this point?

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, my gosh. I've exchanged so many messages with John Hollinger, like, it's. It's out of control. How much I've talked to John Hollinger in the last 48 hours. I've talked to him enough in the next 48 hours for the next 48 years. Like, it's.

[Intuit QuickBooks]

It has been.

[Guest Analyst]

It's been so much. I'm sure he's so annoyed, or maybe he's not. Maybe he just, like, loves it so much that, like, he's having a great time. But I have done too much math. My brain hurts. But no, I'm delighted to be here. And we're gonna. We're gonna talk about a really interesting move.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, well, let's. Let's start with the. The Damian Lillard Miles Turner move, because that's essentially what it is. It's two in one. They wave and stretch Damian Lillard over the course. It's going to be 22 and a half million on the books for the next five seasons, which is just an astounding amount of money in order to sign Miles Turner to a four year, $107 million deal. It's roughly $50 million for Miles Turner for. For four years, and then, you know, a little bit extra. I don't know, man. How did this come together? I guess is where we start.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I think when. When we've seen John Horst, essentially, I don't want to say, get backed into a corner. Right. Because Giannis doesn't really ever.

[Dave DeFore]

I would say, backed into a corner, maybe, you know, softly, but sure.

[Guest Analyst]

I was gonna say Giannis doesn't really, like, do it publicly. Like, he doesn't really, like, demand things, but he does make sure, you know, I would like the team to be good. I would like, you know, us to be able to compete over and over again. Like, that's kind of been his calling card over. Over the years is just like, putting that pressure on in leveraging his position as is one of the best players in the league that, like, we got to keep doing this year over year over year. And when it's looked the most dire, when things have gone the most wrong, however you want to describe it, essentially what John Horst has done is the most aggressive thing you can think of. Whatever it in that summer. It is the most aggressive thing you can think of in 2020 is Giannis is trying to decide if he wants to sign a supermax extension. It's Eric Bledsoe, your starting point guard, who was on the best team in the league. Again, like, the Bucks are the best record in the league. And general is just like, all right, my starting point guard and five first round picks for Drew Holiday. Sure. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. 2023. Giannis is, you know, talking to the New York Times about how I'm not sure if we're competing or we're competing at the level that I want to, and if they're not, then maybe I have to leave Milwaukee. All right, Drew Holiday, you were great. Helped us win a championship. We need to do a little bit more. So how about three more first round picks and we go get Damian Lillard? Okay, did it again. That's the most aggressive thing you could possibly do in both of those situations. Is it an overpay? Is it too many first round picks? Well, whatever, Whatever it was, John Horst was like, all right, that's what we're going to do. And I think this is a summer where they could not have fewer assets. With Damian Lillard's Achilles tear, they could not be in a worse spot in the salary cap. Like, that was going to be $55 million dead, essentially on their salary cap next year. But, I mean, obviously Dame could come back at some point and you're going to hope for the best. But Achilles, Terry, at his age, who knows what he would have looked like when he came back in April or whenever it might have been. So you're trying to get out in front of it. And I think that's what you're seeing in this move is John Horst going out of his way to be like, all right, what is. What is a way that we can show Giannis we're serious about this? Like, what is a way to keep him around? What is a way to keep him happy? And they were running low on options. There weren't a lot of opportunities here. They could have traded one first. I mean, they still could if they want to trade one first round pick this summer and try to make something happen. You know, there was the idea of, like, well, maybe this is a year where you lean into the gap year and, you know, you have some younger guys and. And I do think if that would have been the play, it could have worked if Giannis was okay with it. But we've seen over the years that Giannis Wants to compete, he wants to try to win. So you have to kind of keep pushing. And this is audacious. This is. This is whatever word you want to chop off. 22 and a half million from your sal.

[Intuit QuickBooks]

Creative.

[Guest Analyst]

It is creative. I would agree with that. It is creative.

[Dave DeFore]

Ballsy because. Borderline reckless. Because maybe this is a dangerous ton of money. Dangerous.

[Guest Analyst]

Whatever you want to say, it's all of those things.

[Dave DeFore]

Look, like I had. I had. Had this whole plan. I was going to pitch this fake trade to you, and then this happens, you know, yesterday, before we get a chance to talk. But, you know, I had this thought that Dame was a contract that they could move. You know, we had heard that maybe the Suns, like, he might be able to get Bradley Beal. I think that that would have been a great. A great idea. But, you know, I'm assuming that this is a situation where it's not just the bucks trying to get Miles Turner. Obviously, time is of the essence, and you basically just have to make a call. But I just am shocked that. That they wound up with the Wave and Stretch instead of some sort of a. A trade. I mean, because there's just so many teams out there that could eat that money, especially if you attach that future first.

[Eric Name]

Also, I'll just add to this. I think there was a lot of, like, back and forth on whether Giannis sort of knew about the Wave and Stretch part of the equation here in adding Miles Turner. So what was. What was that part like, you know, knowing whether Giannis was down for this situation or not.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I think over the years, we haven't had a chance to talk to John Horst about it quite yet. Like, I haven't had a full conversation with John about kind of what happened or how it goes down. But, you know, one thing that he has been adamant about over the years is that I'm never going to put a move in front of Giannis and say, are you okay with this? I might, you know, see how he feels about a certain, like, whatever it might be, but I'm never going to be like, hey, are you cool with us doing this? Because he's always said, like, that's unfair. My job is to put us in the best position possible. His job is to be on the court and do the things that he needs to do. And I think one thing that we've kind of found over the years is that, you know, through back channels and. And all those different things, you'll find out about, oh, you know, Giannis heard that they might get this player or that player, and he likes that player, or he didn't like that. What. Whatever it might be like, that player is interesting to him, however you want to describe it, but how the sausage is going to get made is pretty much never described to him. Like, it's never gonna be like to get that thing that you want, that you are not. Not even that you want it, that you are okay with that player or would like to play with that player. You think you fail with that player, whatever. Once it gets to the next step. Like, you know, Giannis was mad when Drew Holiday got traded. Why? Because Drew Holliday is one of the most beloved teammates in the entire league. Like, he's one of the best people in the league. Everyone loves him. But in the end, it was the organization showing to him, like, hey, we are serious about it. We heard you.

[Dave DeFore]

You.

[Guest Analyst]

We understand that you were frustrated about this, so let's go, and let's keep moving forward. And I think one of the other things, too, is that of the people that I've gotten to cover in the league, I think Giannis is one of the more pragmatic and thoughtful people in the league. So whatever his initial reaction might be, if it's upset because he's loyal to a teammate, he, you know, was surprised or whatever, that reaction matters. But what really matters is when you really break it down and think about it and talk about it, that is more going to be what matters to Giannis. Right. And I just think he thinks through these decisions for. For a long time before he likes to, you know, decide whatever he's thinking or let people know what he's thinking. So, yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll get more details in the coming days as we get to talk to more people. You know, Giannis was in Greece, I believe his brother was hosting a podcast in a theater in Greece. All of the De Kumos were going to be on stage. It was about 30 minutes before the Parthenon, or. I mean, you know, no, it was not the Parthenon. I don't know. The famous theaters in.

[Dave DeFore]

They couldn't book it. You know, not. Not famous enough there.

[Guest Analyst]

You know, it's tough, but, you know, that this is the thing.

[Dave DeFore]

Crazy situation. When we're talking about where was Giannis when he found out? Wow. They. They had to do this crazy thing, and we haven't even talked about Miles Turner. The Miles Turner part of this is kind of insane. I mean, he leaves The Pacers after 10 years there, just after they make this. This crazy finals run. Obviously, Tyrese Halliburton's injury is playing into this as well. I mean, it's, this is a signing that's been kind of created by two Achilles tears that happened over the course of the playoffs. Right. So. So, I mean, how do you, how do you like the Miles Turner fit there? I mean, do you. Is there any bad blood? I remember this is an NBA cup heated rivalry and in the playoffs we got the carryover. I mean, is there any concern about him fitting in? I mean, him and Bobby Porter's gonna, gonna get into it a little bit.

[Guest Analyst]

I would have to run the numbers, but I can't imagine there's two teams that have played each other more in a two year span than the Milwaukee Bucks and Indiana Pacers have played each other in the last two years. Because you throw an NBA cup, you throw in two playoff series, you throw in division rivals. I honestly, from a math perspective, I just don't think you could find it like it would have to be seven game playoff series to get to that spot. I don't think there will be any beef. I think a lot of professionals on this team and I also think I've listened to some of the people talk about this trade and how much better it makes the Bucks, and I think that's an interesting conversation. Where it slots the Bucks into the east is interesting. What I don't think is interesting or even debatable is whether or not the Bucks are a better team than before the trade. And what I've heard from multiple people is, well, you know, he's a, you know, he's a rim protecting big that shoots threes. They had one of those in Brook Lopez. Like, how different is it? Oh, it's very different. It's very much different. Like, Brook Lopez is maybe my favorite player ever to. One of my favorite players ever to cover. He's, he's the best. Super smart, very funny, great guy. He's 37 years old. Miles Turner is not. He's eight years younger than Brook Lopez. That is a significant difference. And again, can Miles Turner do the things that Brook Lopez does? Protecting the rim in shooting deep threes above the break? Yes, yes, he can. But he can also do a whole lot more. When you go back to that playoff series, you know, there's a poster of Miles Turner Duncan on Giannis. How did he get to that? Driving to the basket? And while I love Brook Lopez and while I do think his driving was maybe a little underrated, fast, quick, twitch, not how I would describe his drives, they're Crafty, glacial, a little bit slower. It can still be effective. It can still be effective, but it's a very different look. And I just think that's one thing that while I do understand, hey, you're, you're not going to have Damian Lillard at point guard, you'll have someone else at point guard. Like, if we're just talking about whether or not the Milwaukee Bucks are better, they are undeniably better with Miles Turner as opposed to Lopez.

[Eric Name]

I agree with that wholeheartedly. The other part of this is like this change in philosophy and Giannis has mentioned this a bunch of how he wants to play this more five out style with shooters around him. And like obviously Turner plays into that, Bobby Porter's plays into that. The guys that they've resigned play into that. Gary Harris plays into that factor. But they also don't have someone who can dribble the ball and ball handle. So how much of that is now on Giannis to be the playmaker? Obviously he's grown as a playmaker throughout his career, but is it all on him to be the de facto point guard for this team now?

[Guest Analyst]

So I will say that March and April basketball is largely worthless. Largely. Like we should just like strike it from the record books. It's not real basketball unless it serves.

[Dave DeFore]

To prove a point I'm trying to make. In which case I will say with.

[Guest Analyst]

That being said, it does feel like everyone kind of forgot that Kevin Porter Jr. Is on the team and plays point guard hard. I, I know it is like there's significant questions with Ken Portrait. I'm not trying to say that like, and there's a reason why he was only able to find a two year, eleven million or two year ten and a half million dollar deal with the Milwaukee Bucks. Right? There was no long term deals out there. No one's going to commit long term to him because they are a little bit worried about his past and you know, his character issues and things like that. But with all that being said, he is 6 foot 4. He has scored 20 points per game in the league before. And yes, that was before he left the league for two years and had to go to Greece and work all the way back. But there is some skill involved there. And again, I'm, I'm not saying this is like perfect, but like, I do think he can help out as a ball handler. Like I would guess that's probably who their starting point guard is going to be next year. Maybe they'll try to find another veteran and bring him off the bench. That was a role that he played well in and seemed to enjoy. So maybe like it's like a nominal starting point guard as a vet that you could find out there, you know, if someone like Cole Anthony gets bought out by the Grizzlies, maybe that's someone that, that you start and I guess over being the six man, because Cole Anthony likes that role too. But, you know, I think you can, you can find some ways there. But undeniably like Giannis is going to be, it's going to be point Giannis, like, that is going to be how all of this works. And, and I think having a guy like Miles Turner is a big part of making that work. Like to be able to have the, the floor spacing around Giannis. So when you put him on the left wing, on the left block, on the right elbow, whatever it is, that you can space the floor around him and give him the chance to drive, but also really make defenders pay for, you know, cheating just a little bit too much. And, and to that point, I, I just think that is something that will excite Giannis.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Guest Analyst]

Like, if you listen to any of his postgame press conferences in the final 10 games of the year, when Dame was out, he was like, I'm having a lot of fun. You know, I like having the ball in my hands a lot. It's easier for me to see the floor. I have less turnovers. Like, I can really control the game more. And then we saw it in the playoffs, right? Like their best games were games four and five against the Pacers. When, or I guess game when they went smaller. Yes, they went smaller. Giannis had the ball in his hands and Giannis was playing the point ish, whatever you want. The playmaking wing, whatever you want to call it, like it was, the usage rate went up and they were a different team and a better team because Giannis was doing that. Yeah, I agree.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Eric Name]

Honestly, like the, the fact that Giannis has gotten so comfortable making plays out of that like mid post, high post area too, because of the mid range shot, he's more of a threat to score from that spot too. So it just opens up more shooters to be able to knock down shots. I think that's like the move moving forward with Giannis anyways is to just sort of like a modern day Dwight Howard where it's like, hey, just get a bunch of shooters around him and, and do its thing.

[Dave DeFore]

I think that if you look at Jokic and how we compare Giannis to Jokic, I think that absol. This is Sort of the natural evolution for Giannis, and especially, you know, he started shooting that mid ranger again and it looked pretty good. I thought that's when the elbow passing really started to develop there. Once, once they have to respect that shot, all of a sudden it's a different world.

[Guest Analyst]

And I was going to say one thing too, is I think one of the. One of the points I would have used if I would have tried to pitch Giannis on a gap year, right. However you want to call it before all of this, right before you. You stretch Dame or whatever. Okay, so it's going to be point Giannis. And I think part of what my argument would be is, hey, you know, there is a year where Jokic won an MVP as the 6 seed, dragging a team to the 6th seed, right?

[Eric Name]

Come win MVP this year. Absolutely.

[Guest Analyst]

And then all of a sudden that will be Giannis's third MVP. And if you have three MVPs, you are one of 10 players in NBA history to have three MVPs. Like, if we're talking about how you get to immort mortality and how you get to these different places, being able to add another mvp, which is really difficult to do once you get to this age, right? Like, it. It is more difficult once you get 10, 11, 12 years in the league. This is a rare opportunity where if we start next season with everyone saying, well, the Milwaukee Bucks don't have a chance. The Milwaukee Bucks are this. The Milwaukee Bucks are that. That is an easy narrative for everyone to then say, oh, my gosh, how are the Milwaukee Bucks doing so much? How are they winning all? And the person that you will point to, there's nobody else. You can't say, well, dame's putting up 25 and seven. And you can't say Chris Middleton's doing this. You can just say, Giannis. That's the reason. That's why they're this good. And again, that could go poorly, right? Like, this team just might not be good enough. But also, I do think that is, again, if I was in the pitch room, if I was the person getting to do this, I. That would be a big part of my pitch is, hey, maybe this team might not be as good as you want it to be, but you can still find individual success this way. And who knows, maybe by the end of the year we've gelled together in this magical way and. And we can win some games.

[Eric Name]

Well, look, the Eastern Conference is another part of the sales pitch, right? Because, you know, Boston is not going to be part of this. You know, Indiana is not going to be a part of this. Some teams have made improvements. Orlando, New York, etc. Obviously Milwaukee. How do you see them fitting in to the Eastern Conference next year now that they have this group?

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I think it does feel like they are between the 4 and 7 range. Like that. That feels the most likely. I know I was, I was talking to Fred Katz earlier today and the Knicks fascinate me. That was if they would, if they were going to bring Tibbs back, that was a team that would be like, oh, yeah, top three team in the East. And now I have to think through like, I lived this, right? Like the Bucks got tired of Bud and he had already won a championship and that was great, but they got tired of Bud and we're like, well, we got, we got to get someone new. The, the message is stale. We need someone new. And a lot of times when you get rid of a really good coach, it's really hard to find another really good one. And I understand Tibbs didn't get them where they wanted. I understand that there were questions about, you know, the offense by the end of the season and things like that, but, but that's a really good NBA coach. And now you're in a spot where all of a sudden I don't know who it's going to be. And now it's Mike Brown and okay, how is that going to work? Is Mike Brown going to put in the Kings offense from years back where all of a sudden it's fast paced and the Knicks are trying to score 120? I don't know if that's going to work out. Are they going to be good enough defensively? I have questions now and then all of a sudden you drop them out of that three and then maybe they're in the mix from three to seven with the Bucks. Like there's. I just think there's a lot of interesting teams there. There. I'm a big believer now more than ever in the weak link theory. And I think that's something that can catch up to the Bucks where they do have some weak links and it maybe doesn't matter as much anymore that you have the best player on the floor, which they will almost every night. So that's a concern when you look at teams like the Hawks and the Magic, who I think have more depth and are going to try to be in that, conversate that same conversation with the Bucks. But I do think it's it, it they're in that area. I don't think they're at the top of the east, but I think it gets pretty like there's a bunch of teams in that area, striking distance.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Guest Analyst]

There's a lot of people that can just kind of be there. And, and maybe you don't end up hosting a home playoff series. Maybe you're just the five or the six, but there's like a, a probably like a group of like six teams that's kind of in that mix also.

[Dave DeFore]

Maybe you do. I mean, I, I just, it's, it's.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, why not?

[Dave DeFore]

And I think that there's a world in which like, look, you just said you could have had a gap year. Giannis could have gotten them to the playoffs. I believe in the east, you improve the team. I, I think that some of the other marginal moves have been really good. You again, Gary Harris. That's good. This is, I think they're going to have a. Probably the four seed is. Is my guess. There's somewhere in there. And if you can, if you can make the playoffs in the east, you got a shot at making the finals, period. Maybe a ball handler pops up for him. I don't, I don't know who's out there or how they're going to get them them. But as you mentioned, John Horse has made made stuff happen before. All right, that's gonna do it. Everybody go and read Eric over at the Athletic. Thanks to Eric Name for hanging out with us. Thanks to Esperahenny, as always. I'm Dave DeFore and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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[Guest Analyst]

Done.

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