Did the Wolves improve? | Northwest Division Preview

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily — “Did the Wolves Improve? | Northwest Division Preview”

Date: August 5, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esperahenne ("Es"), Andrew Schlecht
Main Theme:
A comprehensive breakdown and off-season “report card” for each team in the Northwest Division—Thunder, Nuggets, Timberwolves, Blazers, Jazz—focusing on major roster moves, broader team philosophies, and the implications of the NBA's new financial landscape (notably, the second apron).

---

Opening Remarks & NBA Landscape

• [01:54] Dave DuFour: Welcomes listeners, sets up the context: end of off-season grades, Northwest Division preview.
• General excitement about the season: 78 days away as of recording.
• Light banter about the ongoing Kawhi Leonard investigation and the shifting importance of divisions, with both hosts agreeing the Northwest and Atlantic are the NBA’s strongest.

---

Oklahoma City Thunder

Key Discussion Points

• [04:13] Major Moves:

  • Letting Lou Dort go to avoid the second apron (luxury tax).
  • Re-signing Isaiah Hartenstein on a “palatable” deal.
  • Moving on from three rotation players (including Aaron Wiggins and Isaiah Joe) to save ~$200 million and create spots for two incoming first-rounders.

• Roster Consequences:

  • Big focus on internal development: rookies (Jared McCain, Bennett Sturts, Nikola Topic, Aday Mara) will get opportunities.
  • Debate on whether to stick with a defense-first starter (e.g., Casen Wallace) or shift toward starting AJ Mitchell, emphasizing offense.
  • "Thunder now have a ‘core four’—Shea, Chet, J-Dub, and AJ Mitchell.” [09:34, Es]

• 2nd Apron Philosophy:

  • [06:00] Es: “The only reason that you would do this is so that you avoid the second apron…If they want to keep Case and Wallace, they want to keep AJ Mitchell, you’re a second apron team.”
  • [06:47] Andrew: “It feels like teams are assuming the second apron is a hard cap. That’s incredibly lame.”

• Potential Roster Upgrades:

  • Rookies and younger players must step up; Jared McCain may benefit most from freed-up minutes.
  • AJ Mitchell expected to make a major leap; could be a starter if Thunder shift offensive philosophy.
  • Discussion of whether this is a step back in depth vs. a natural roster evolution.

Memorable Quotes

• Es: “If you’re a Thunder fan, the thought in your mind needs to be: this better be the last year they don’t do it [go into the second apron].” [06:25]
• Dave: “I don’t like ducking a tax when you’ve got a championship team.” [12:26]
• Andrew: “The reason that they’ve been a juggernaut...is Lou Dort, Isaiah Joe, Aaron Wiggins...part of their core identity is lost.” [12:36]

Grades

• Andrew: B, then C- (“you had to lose players that are valuable rotation players and you are banking on some outlier development”) [11:43–12:23]
• Es: C+ (“Too many Bs on this show…”) [12:13]
• Dave: C- (“How often are rookies who aren’t lottery picks ready to play for a championship team?”) [12:34]

---

Denver Nuggets

Key Discussion Points

• Roster Situation:

  • Added Marvin Bagley, losing Tim Hardaway Jr.
  • Brought Spencer Jones back, possibly under duress from a Thunder offer sheet.
  • Might lose Peyton Watson, their only young player to develop fully, due to financial constraints.

• Aging/Declining Core:

  • Health issues with Aaron Gordon and questions about Jamal Murray’s future fit with Jokic.
  • Minimal support cast development: “Their young guys—other than Peyton Watson—haven’t panned out.” [19:36]

• Financial Squeeze:

  • Nuggets are a second apron team, leading to tough choices and little roster movement.
  • May not own their own draft pick until 2031.

Memorable Quotes

• Andrew: “The Thunder have passed them. The Spurs are probably past them, too. It feels like they are now on the second half of their prime.” [16:15]
• Dave: “Very reminiscent of what we just watched in Milwaukee with Giannis…picks that haven’t really panned out.” [19:53]
• Es: “You’ve got to nail the surrounding cast. Aaron Gordon not being healthy for the playoffs is a huge deal. Same for Peyton Watson.” [17:52]

Grades

• Andrew: F (“This is the first failing grade...they needed to make some sort of shift and haven’t.”) [16:15]
• Esp/Es: F (“They don’t own their own draft pick until 2031, and they’re unwilling to spend.”) [21:11]
• Dave: F (“You’ve got one of the three best players in the world. You kind of gotta act like it, right?”) [21:05]

---

Minnesota Timberwolves

Key Discussion Points

• Roster Reconstruction:

  • Out: Nas Reid, Julius Randle, Mike Conley, Kyle Anderson.
  • In: LaMelo Ball (main piece), Trey Lyles (possible Kyle Anderson replacement), IO Dosunmu (re-signed).
  • Team identity shifts from a “big” roster to a guard-oriented, high-pace offense built around LaMelo and Anthony Edwards.

• Big Risks, Split Opinions:

  • Andrew [Opposed]: Skeptical about LaMelo’s health, playoff experience, overall fit. “You’re hinging so much of your hope on LaMelo...that, to me, is a scary proposition.” [27:10]
  • Es [Pro]: “I absolutely love this deal…he fills that link as a playmaker…allows Ant to play off the ball.” [25:04]
  • Open question: Can Jaden McDaniels and Gobert make up for the drop-off in defense with LaMelo as a starter?
  • Biggest concern: No starting PF, loss of bench “innings eaters” like Julius Randle.

Memorable Quotes

• Es: “This is like hitting the trade machine too much…There’s not enough continuity. I don’t believe in LaMelo Ball.” [27:04]
• Andrew: “Maybe Ant has to guard some fours. I don’t know if that’s great for them defensively either.” [31:04]
• Dave: “Turning Nas Reid into LaMelo Ball is pretty good…But I think you just gave up too much in a position where you did have some strength.” [30:18]

Grades

• Es: A, then B+ (“They are now officially much better than last year...although losing out on LeBron and their starting four hurts.”) [26:51, 30:42]
• Andrew: D+ (“I don’t believe this was the right move. May eat a ton of crow, but I don’t believe this will work.”) [30:15]
• Dave: B/B- (“I think moving off Julius Randle [contract] is good, but giving up both Nas and Randle sacrifices too much depth.”) [30:18–30:42]

---

Portland Trail Blazers

Key Discussion Points

• Roster Chaos:

  • Massive turnover: Added Ja Morant (via trade for Jeremy Grant), Jeremy Sochan, Micah Potter, Brandon Carlson.
  • Lost Jeremy Grant, Matisse Thybulle, Chris Murray—previously part of strong wing depth.
  • Uncertainty with multiple lead guards: Ja Morant, Damian Lillard, Drew Holiday, Scoot Henderson all on the roster.

• Philosophical Critique:

  • Perceived loss of faith in Scoot Henderson, especially after acquiring Ja Morant.
  • “Vibes” at their lowest due to ownership instability, media spending cuts, uncertain arena/future in Portland.
  • Ja Morant’s primary offensive skill (drives) overlaps and conflicts with Deni Avdija, the team’s best player from last year per hosts.

Memorable Quotes

• Es: “You just…don’t believe in Scoot. You don’t trade for Ja Morant and then say you’re still in on Scoot Henderson.” [34:48]
• Andrew: “On top of weird roster construction, the vibes around ownership and arena situation is enough to give this team an F.” [35:27]
• Es: “What you’re doing is you’re taking your All-Star forward [Deni Avdija], and you’re diminishing what he does. This feels very...like Knicks in the 2000s: trade for a name, but don’t make the team better.” [36:39]

Grades

• All: F (“I’m giving them an F just on vibes.” – Dave, [35:27])
• Ownership, lack of roster/basketball direction, and undermining young stars cited as main reasons.

---

Utah Jazz

Key Discussion Points

• Roster Construction & Vision:

  • Drafted Darren Peterson with the #2 pick, expected to be a cornerstone.
  • Acquired Jaren Jackson Jr. (referred to as “Triple J”).
  • Traded Walker Kessler for significant draft capital (two unprotected picks, two swaps from Lakers) and improved financial flexibility.
  • Added depth with Jackson Hayes, Josh Okogie, and re-signed Jusuf Nurkic.

• Optimism about Trajectory:

  • “Jazz are poised to leap after the Jaren Jackson Jr. deal and Keonte George’s emergence.” [38:47–40:15, Andrew]
  • Freed from cap/roster constraints; flexibility and youth in place for a rapid rise.
  • Front office credited for strategic positioning.

Memorable Quotes

• Andrew: “They have control of the Lakers for the next foreseeable future, and that’s massive…This was an A+ offseason for them.” [40:15]
• Es: “They positioned themselves for the #2 pick. That’s front-office credit. I think in 2–3 years we’ll be talking about Utah as a top-three team in the West.” [41:28]
• Dave: “Not handcuffing yourself to a guy who’s not a top-five center…that’s big money.” [41:52]

Grades

• Andrew: A+
• Es: A
• Dave: A (“I think an A is pretty fair.”) [41:56]

---

Notable Moments & Miscellaneous Highlights

• [10:03] Oklahoma City Defensive Template — Recounting the long-standing tradition of the Thunder having a defensive “point of attack” starter: "Topo Cephalosha, Roberson, Ferguson, and Lou Dort" [Es]
• [31:37] Julius Randle Nicknames — Extended digression: “Beyblade,” “Orange Julius,” “Don Julio,” “Big Jew,” “King Julius,” “Black Panther,” “The Sergeant,” and “Goosebumps." Hosts express disbelief at some ("No way Black Panther and the Sergeant make sense.”)
• [33:00] Brandon Carlson has a twin one foot shorter — “We don’t need to discuss it, but just think about that.” [Es]
• Portland vibes as the sole reason for an F: “I think a lot of that takes away the life of a fan base in such a major way…” [Andrew, 36:06]

---

Episode Takeaways

• Thunder: Rebalanced with an eye on future flexibility; risk losing some regular-season depth, but banking on in-house development. Mixed grades, leaning negative due to depth loss and ownership’s reluctance to spend into the apron.
• Nuggets: In declining health, lacking draft capital or flexibility, and not acting like a team with Jokic in his prime; unanimously declared a disastrous offseason.
• Timberwolves: Pivoted toward offense with LaMelo/Edwards backcourt; hosts divided between excitement and skepticism. Depth and health huge questions.
• Blazers: Torn apart by ownership and directionless trades. Ja Morant addition seen as undermining recent foundational building around Scoot Henderson and Deni Avdija. Worst “vibes” in the league.
• Jazz: Praised for asset-driven, patient build. Complete buy-in from hosts as an up-and-coming power.

---

Segment Timestamps

• Thunder: 04:13–15:18
• Nuggets: 15:18–22:08
• Timberwolves: 24:09–32:34
• Blazers: 33:13–38:13
• Jazz: 38:13–41:56

---

For Northwest Division fans or NBA observers, this episode captures both the nuts-and-bolts of off-season maneuvering and the high-level strategic direction shaping each franchise, with a frank, entertaining assessment of what works—and what’s falling apart.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You're probably multitasking right now, right? Commuting, working out, crossing things off your list. Worth asking when check in on yourself Landed on it Grow makes the booking part fast. The rest is between you and a therapist who actually gets it. Grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. There are no subscriptions, no long term commitments. You just pay per session quickly. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com startnow today to get started. That's growtherapy.com startnow growtherapy.com startnow availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Advertiser]

With the Discover Cash Back card, it's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants, it pays to discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Stewart Fails to Save the Universe is about Stuart Bloom who ran the comic book shop on the Big Bang theory and now has to restore reality after he accidentally causes a multiverse Armageddon. On the Stewart Fails to Save the Universe podcast. Hear from the creators, cast and crew as they unpack each episode after it airs on HBO Max. Watch the Stewart Fails to Save the Universe official podcast on HBO Max, YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave defora here with Esperahenne. Coming up, we finish off our off season grades with the Northwest Division. Is this the deepest division in the NBA? Good morning everybody. What is up? S the hello. Off season grades almost over. We're starting thinking about next season, man.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm. I'm actually kind of excited for next season. Would you say 78 days, 77 days, something like that?

[Dave Dufour]

I. I think as we're recording it, it's like 78 days by the time countdown. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

You know what's crazy? Like 78 days and Kawhi Leonard is still not a Toronto Raptor. Insane. And the investigation is still pending by the way, depending on when you were listening to this thing.

[Dave Dufour]

So where are you putting this now? Like, like give it a. Give me a percentage chance percentage that he's that he's actually a raptor.

[Andrew Schlect]

You know what? I still, I lean like 90%. Like I'm still very. Maybe this is wishful thinking. I got to pull out my rose colored glasses, but I think it's very. It feels like all of this is a formality to me. Maybe. How do you feel?

[Esperahenne]

I have.

[Dave Dufour]

I honestly, I'm waiting for Pablo Torre to tell me how to feel on this.

[Andrew Schlect]

Look, it's been exhausting for us and we are not part of the investigation. I can only imagine how exhausting it's been in the league office and with the millionaire lawyers that are doing dealing with this.

[Dave Dufour]

We're going on a year of this. So, you know, hopefully we, we get some sort of conclusion before the season starts. Look, let's jump into what I, I think is the deepest division in the NBA. I know the divisions don't really matter that much, but it is a nice way to break things down. But it's the Thunder, the Nuggets, the Timberwolves, the Trailblazers, the Jazz. Man, there's a decent chance that all five of those teams are in the top 10. There's just as good of a chance because of how deep the west is, that two of those teams just missed the playoffs.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, I would say it's between this and the Atlantic Division that houses the, the, the Raptors and Celtics and Sixers, LeBron and everybody. Obviously the New York Knicks, the champs like these. These are the two best divisions in basketball. And you're right, I wish divisions mattered more because the stakes would be incredibly high for this.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. And speaking of Andrew Schleck joining us just in time to talk about the Oklahoma City Thunder and the off season that they had. Not a lot of big moves there, Andrew.

[Andrew Schlect]

I would say they were big moves

[Dave Dufour]

that Lou Dort ripped out. Well, it's a big move away, but they didn't really make any kind of big changes to the team.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, I would say, I mean, there, there are a lot of things that happened for the Thunder this summer. The biggest thing that happened is they resigned as a Hartenstein to a very palatable deal for them. Like, that's probably the biggest thing that happened for them that will change the way they operate for years to come. Now they lost three rotation players that soaked a ton of minutes for them and in the process of doing that saved like $200 million. So that's a part of this. And, and I think if you're looking at what the Thunder are going to be moving forward Sam Price did an interview with my guy, Justin Martinez of the. Of the Oklahoman, about the Lou Dort move specifically, because if you look at like the Isaiah Joe move, the Aaron Wiggins moves, both of those can be explained is that, hey, they needed roster spots. You look at the roles they had in the playoffs. Aaron Wiggins played like under 100 minutes in the playoffs, total through three rounds. Isaiah Joe played like 140 minutes, I think, total, and was like not contributing at the level he did in the regular season. It kind of makes sense to move on from both those guys. Plus you need the roster spots of the two first round picks that you were acquiring. Those made sense. Lou Dort, however, played a big role for them in the playoffs. Yeah, he's been a starter for them for years and years and years. He's like, him and Shay are like best friends.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

And really the only reason that you would do this is so that you avoid the second apron. Not necessarily the second apron penalties, but the second apron money that you have to spend, which we saw that they gave out an offer sheet to Spencer Jones that spent right up to the second apron and not quite there. So, like, that signals that, like, that's a big deal to them. But you can't if you want to keep this team together for any length of time. Like, if they want to keep Case and Wallace, they want to keep AJ Mitchell. You're a second apron team. And so like this, if, if you're a Thunder fan, the. The thought in your mind needs to be, this better be the last year they don't do it. This better be the last year they don't pay the second apron.

[Andrew Schlect]

It feels like just teams are assuming the second apron is a hard cap. Like it just.

[Esperahenne]

That's the lamest. That's the lame.

[Advertiser]

I agree.

[Andrew Schlect]

It's incredibly lame. And it's like you have all this money in the world, you can go ahead and spend it to build your team. Especially a team as talented and ready to win a championship as the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, there are teams worth spending on. There are teams that are not worth spending on.

[Andrew Schlect]

Absolutely right.

[Esperahenne]

There are teams that should not approach the second apron. Right now. The Denver Nuggets, who we'll talk about, are the only team in the second apron. That team should not be in the second apron.

[Dave Dufour]

They got to get out.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, they got to get out. Find a way to get out for the Thunder, though, like, to me, that's the team that the second apron is built for.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[Esperahenne]

You know like, they're good to go. They don't need to make any roster moves. Like, it's almost like we're going to take these moves away from you because you're spending so much so that like you don't hurt yourself here. Like some of it's like protection for like some people as well. But the Thunder, I don't think they fear any of the restrictions, but I do think the ownership group did not okay keeping Lou Dort. And so like there's like to me, there's like a little bit of a difference.

[Andrew Schlect]

So look kind of, kind of looking forward into to next season. And I guess this is a way to review some of the, the losses that they had in Dort and Wiggins and Joe. It's like there's guys who are expected to step up, which is, you know, Jared McCain obviously, maybe some of their rookies in a Dai Mara and Bennett Sturts might be kind of getting thrown into the rotation. Do you feel like there's a. There's maybe one guy that stands to benefit the most from these trades that they made?

[Esperahenne]

I mean, Jared McCain I think is probably the one. If we're talking about like one of the newer guys, I think that he is obviously going to fill in a pretty big role off the bench for them. I think that he is a guy that can take the Isaiah Joe role plus more. And I think part of the reason they traded for him is like they, they want to have a pipeline of players that kind of fill these similar roles and that are less expensive if they can be. And so I think that's kind of what we're seeing here. I think that Sturts is a guy that will play this year. I think everybody, everybody always plays for the Thunder, but I think Sturts will play a meaningful role. And I think really the guy that's going to make the biggest leap this season is AJ Mitchell. I think we already kind of like saw the pre leap from him in the playoffs against the Lakers specifically. He was really good. And I think that he is a guy that he's. He's potentially a starter. I think you probably pencil in case of Moss as a starter, but I think that he is a starting level player in the NBA and that like he could make a serious leap in year three. The biggest question for him is health and he's addressed. Is trying to address that this off season with the way he takes care of his body and things like that. But to me, he is the, he is the guy who I think if we're Talking about the Thunder, they have their big three that are like obvious. Shay. Yep. Chet and Jada. But I really think they have like to me they have a core four and the fourth guy's AJ Mitchell.

[Andrew Schlect]

Fantastic.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Wow.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay.

[Esperahenne]

And.

[Dave Dufour]

And Casen Wallace jumps into the starting lineup. Is that your assumption?

[Esperahenne]

I mean, I think that's like the easiest thing if we think about the way they've loved to have that spot since Presti is sat in that seat.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

Like you go all the way back to Topo Cephalosha, you know, as like the point of attack. Roberson, man, you know, all the way to Roberson. You have to remember it's Roberson because he steals, he robs. And then. Yeah, I mean they tried to like pigeonhole Terence Ferguson and then Lou Dort has been in that place for forever.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

But I also wonder if it's time to change and it's time to put A.J. mitchell in the starting lineup because I think, yes, I think like you could. If you look at like the guys they have now have on their roster compared to like two years ago, like they've added Jared McCain, they've added Bennett Sturts, Nikola Topic is going to play this year. They have all these like way more offense oriented guys and I just wonder if it's time to start changing that philosophy a little bit. That may not happen. They may just start Case and Wallace and kind of keep things as is. But I just wonder if it's, if it's time to shift philosophies because I think that they could be like a supercharged offense if you put a guy like A.J. mitchell in there. Not that he won't play with all the starters he will, but I just think if you start that way you have a chance to be a very high level offense.

[Dave Dufour]

What are we grading their off season guys?

[Esperahenne]

What do you think?

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, it's hard for me because I, I understand the, the restrictions of having to shed money and the roster spots and, and obviously like bringing in the rookies and, and just finding spots for them specifically. They got what, seven second round picks. In the process of trading those guys, moving those guys, shedding a bunch of money in $200 million. I, I think it's like a B. Like I.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

It.

[Andrew Schlect]

I can't give it that A because at the end of the day you had to lose players that are valuable rotation players for you and you are banking on some guys to have some outlier development, whether it be McCain or Case and Wallace or the rookies. I think there is a bit of a bet on that. So I can't give it like a, an awesome grade, but a B feels fair to me.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, I, I, you ever heard somebody say that you like, aren't allowed to give something a seven?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, sure.

[Esperahenne]

It's like, like food, like if you're giving a food grade, like, you can't give a seven. There's been too many B's on this show. Too many bees.

[Dave Dufour]

I agree.

[Andrew Schlect]

Okay, here, I'm gonna go with a C minus.

[Advertiser]

I'm going with this.

[Esperahenne]

There we go. There we go. I like that better.

[Dave Dufour]

I don't like ducking attacks when you've got a championship team.

[Esperahenne]

Agreed.

[Dave Dufour]

I don't, I, I don't love. And look Isaiah.

[Esperahenne]

Well, ducking the second apron. The second apron.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Isaiah, Joe, Aaron, Wiggins, Lou Dort, I mean, part of this team's strength has been how deep it is with guys that you can just trust. Yeah, not in the playoffs. I'm talking in the regular season. The reason that they've been a juggernaut and the number one seed and, you know, been able to withstand so many injuries over the last couple seasons is Lou Dort, Isaiah, Joe, Aaron Wiggins. I mean, I do think that that part of their core identity is lost. And you were taking a gamble here that, that the young guys that you've brought in are ready to go. It's a huge gamble. How often are, how often are rookies that, that are not like lottery picks ready to play for a championship level team? I, I mean, even the lottery picks aren't necessarily ready. So I just worry about it. I think the regular season there's a step back here, but once you get to the playoffs, this doesn't matter.

[Esperahenne]

I mean, they have a strong top nine. Once you get to the playoffs, those guys don't need to play.

[Dave Dufour]

Lou Dort was actually a handcuff on this team come playoff time. And I think that this helps you. Maybe in some ways it's going to force you to play your best guys and not just guys that the coaching staff can trust.

[Andrew Schlect]

I, I'd also argue that like they were starting to not play Wiggins or Joe anyways. Like it was, it was hard to find those guys minutes. And so it, this feels like a natural progression to me to move on to this next version of the team, which, I get it, you should spend money when you have the ability to and when you have a team too. But I just, it feels like this was eventually going to happen to this Thunder team. It just makes sense to Me that the. The way that they went about it was to get these young guys some opportunities. It's just like what the kind of natural life cycle of this team was supposed to be, you know?

[Esperahenne]

Yeah. If you look at game seven. Yeah. C, C plus.

[Andrew Schlect]

If you.

[Esperahenne]

If you look at the game seven against the spurs, no Jalen Williams and no A.J. mitchell and Ludor started the game. He played 15 minutes.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[Esperahenne]

In a game with those who were gone.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins did not play one minute in that game. So, like, obviously you lean heavily on Alex Caruso in the playoffs. Like, you lean heavily on all your other guys. And if you have those other guys healthy, maybe Lou Dort doesn't even play in that game. You know, like, to me, that might have been a situation. So if we're thinking about, like the highest leverage moments, the Thunder may have not really lost all that much. And like, perhaps you have some internal development that makes you better than you were last year, but regular season wise. Yeah, it's a step back.

[Andrew Schlect]

Well, I'll just. I'll add this real quick. Like, cliffhanger wise. I think the, the main question I have for this Oklahoma City Thunder team doesn't even include the players we just talked about. It is Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams and their ability to kind of get back to what they were as players. So. Yeah, we'll see if they can do that.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, you kind of teased it a little bit talking about the Nuggets being a second apron team at the moment. They did not. They've not had a good summer. They added Marvin Bagley. They're losing Tim Hardaway Jr. They're bringing back Spencer Jones, but they kind of got forced into that by. By Sam Presti. A little bit of gamesmanship, maybe.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

That they're potentially could lose Peyton Watson or have him sign a qualifying offer, which means you're going to lose him either via trade or next summer via unrestricted free agency. How you guys feeling about the Nuggets? As we're looking ahead, I would like

[Andrew Schlect]

to give the Denver Nuggets an F, a failing grade. I think this is the first failing grade that I actually have. I think it is for this entire preview thing that we're doing. And the reason I say that is because they were very clearly behind the eight ball in the playoffs. Like the. The Thunder have passed them. The spurs are probably past them as well at this point as a perennial Western Conference powerhouse. And it kind of feels like they are now, you know, on the tail end or the Second half of their prime, they needed to make some sort of shift. Whether it was trading Jamal Murray, whether it was shaking things up with Aaron Gordon, or finding a way to, to rejig their team with Cam Johnson and Christian Brown. Like, there was just something that they had to do and they haven't done that. And I think on top of that, they have leaned into the tax situation. You guys mentioned the Spencer Jones stuff. I think that was a marvelous move by Sam Presti to pressure a team that was already feeling the pressure. This is a very, very bad offseason for a team that already was dealing with some identity issues in terms of. Is, are they on their last legs? Like, is this the final version of this team that won't be able to get over the hump anymore? I know Nicola Jokic is incredible.

[Dave Dufour]

As you're teasing that Jokic is going to ask out.

[Andrew Schlect]

I don't, I don't know if Jokic is.

[Dave Dufour]

He's not that.

[Andrew Schlect]

I don't think he's that guy. Dude. He's not that type of guy to ask out. It doesn't feel like he's the type of guy to ask out, but who knows?

[Esperahenne]

But his next extension will squeeze them and they're already squeezed. And so like I do. It's important to keep him, obviously, but you've got to nail these other signings. Like, you have to nail the surround, like the surrounding cast. And like Aaron Gordon not being healthy for the playoffs is a huge deal. Same for Peyton Watson. Like, if both those guys are healthy, I think we're having a much different conversation right now.

[Andrew Schlect]

Oh yeah.

[Esperahenne]

And so I do think, like, it's a little bit unfair because you had guys like Bruce Brown and Jonas Valentunas and Tyus Jones and even Spencer Jones. Like, Spencer Jones played a lot of minutes and like, this is a good player, but on most teams this is a bench player. You know, like he's not a starting level play, 35 minutes and the final game of your season kind of guy, which is what he was for them. They need their guys to be healthy and they need to nail the other signings like that. Tim Hardway Jr. Was a big part of what they did last year. He made the second most threes on the team. And so like, how do they replace that production?

[Andrew Schlect]

This is a team that doesn't take a lot of threes anyways.

[Esperahenne]

Or like, and like Christian Brown, if he never recovers as a three point shooter, that's a really big deal. Cam Johnson got better as the year went on and but he might not be on the team, y'. All.

[Dave Dufour]

I was gonna say they're at risk now of having to move on from Cam Johnson again. I mean, on top of potentially losing Peyton Watson for nothing next year, it seems like they're trying to go pretty below market on Peyton Watson, which, you know, I think that part of this is a. Peyton Watson's timing is, is awful on this contract. If he come, if he's a free agent a year ago. Yeah, he's getting a bigger money deal than they can offer right now.

[Andrew Schlect]

He's also like their only successful young development project. This is one of the bigger issues with the Nuggets over the last few years is like out of all of their young guys that they were banking on, whether it's Julian Strother or him, like it really, it's just Peyton Watson who's developed into someone that has.

[Dave Dufour]

Very reminiscent of what we just watched in Milwaukee with Giannis. Yeah. Post championship. They're, they're not athletic enough. They're a little too old. The, the picks that they've made, most of which haven't really panned out to, to, to be players that, that can be in their rotation again. This is, is it a precursor to Jokic potentially asking out? I don't think so. I think he's there. I wonder though, if it isn't a precursor to, okay, we gotta rebuild and start on the next thing that is going to be around Jokic. Aaron Gordon being hurt all the time, especially come playoff time is, you know, this is like a multi year problem now. This is not just last season. And then there's Jamal Murray. I, I think, you know, he had such a great season last year, didn't look great in the playoffs. And you know, you got to start to wonder, you know, is that, is that partnership still going to work out? I still think that the Murray Jokic two man game is one of the most devastating combos in the NBA. But if you don't have any of the guys that you need around them, it doesn't really matter. It's easier to guard. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I don't mind the F, I don't mind the F. I think I'm gonna go F2. I mean, you've got one of the three best players in the world. You have to kind of gotta act like it, Right?

[Esperahenne]

Yeah. Well. And part of their problem too is like they don't own their own draft pick until 2031.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yep.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

And they are also unwilling to spend money, which kind of goes back to the topic we were talking about with the Thunder. It's like investing in a team. And look, maybe you could argue to your point Andrew earlier, this Nuggets team isn't worth investing in in terms of going into the second apron. They're just not good enough for that. But when you have Nicola Jokic, you have to show a willingness to spend, and they haven't necessarily shown a willingness to spend and even overspend to keep their guys. Yeah, it just, it feels like they had to structurally change something this offseason. They haven't. And on top of that, they've been pressured to spend money in ways that they probably weren't looking to with Spencer Jones, with Peyton Watson, and that's put them in a really tough spot.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. On that note, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about Lamelo Ball and Anthony Edwards.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You're probably multitasking right now, right? Commuting, working out, crossing things off your list. Worth asking when check in on yourself. Landed on it Grow makes the booking part fast. The rest is between you and a therapist who actually gets it. Grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US Offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. There are no subscriptions, no long term commitments, you just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on. Grow grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit GrowTherapy.com start now today to get started, that's GrowTherapee.com startnow growtherapee.com startnow availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Advertiser]

With the Discover Cash Back card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants. It pays to Discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Andrew Schlect]

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power

[Esperahenne]

up with a SoFi personal loan.

[Andrew Schlect]

A SoFi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment.

[Esperahenne]

It's even got super speed since you

[Andrew Schlect]

could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more.

[Esperahenne]

That's s o f I.com pow loans

[Andrew Schlect]

originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLs 696891.

[Dave Dufour]

The Minnesota Timberwolves decided to really shake things up and this is a fundamentally completely different team. They traded out Nas reed. They get LaMelo Ball. They ship out Julius Randle. No more Mike Conley. Kyle Anderson's a raptor. They get Trey Lyles. Hopefully he is Kyle Anderson Replacement Green. Listen, I think the LaMelo ball thing is fascinating. LaMelo ball on with the ball in his hands is a magician. He juiced the Charlotte Hornets offense every single time he was on the court. It allows Anthony Edwards to be off the ball and he's one of the best standstill like catch and shoot three point shooters in the NBA. Which is amazing because like we know him as this guy that is so ball dominant. But I, I listen, I don't know if I love this. I need to see it but I like the idea of it.

[Andrew Schlect]

I mean I, I feel like I am on the complete opposite side as Andrew on this trade because we talked trade when the live reaction happened. I, I absolutely love this deal for the Minnesota Timber Bulls. Yeah, it, it's taking a lot of risks and this is something that the Timberwolves have gotten used to over the last couple years. They like to take swings. They took a swing on Rudy Gobert, they took a swing trading cap for Julius Randle and now they're taking a swing on LaMelo Ball. And is he the right player to take a swing on? I think theoretically, absolutely. He fills that link as, as sort of a playmaker and a guy who's just this jumbo shooter who can alleviate some pressure off of Anthony Edwards. The bigger question for me is just how they're going to fill out the rest of the roster in terms of they don't have a starting power forward. I guess Jaden McDaniels slides into that four spot. They did not address that in the off season. Struck out on Rui Hachimura, struck out on LeBron James. Struck out on I'm assuming Sandro Mamukeleshvili who they went for. So from that perspective they have a pretty big gap and they were, they used to be one of the biggest teams in the NBA. They no longer are one of the biggest teams in the NBA. Their identity has shifted to this guard oriented team with Lamelo and Ant and IO Dasuma who they resigned. I just, I think structurally they've changed a lot and you have to see it in order to believe it. I agree. But in terms of what they did. I'm gonna give them an a because just. Yeah, I. I it. They are now officially much better than they were last year, in my opinion. I think they have a better chance of trying to compete for a championship. And I know Andrew disagrees. Yeah, I know. Let's talk about it.

[Dave Dufour]

Andrew does not believe in lamelo ball. Let's just. Let's just get that out of the way.

[Andrew Schlect]

Right? Yeah. It's definitely.

[Advertiser]

That's.

[Dave Dufour]

That's the difference. The line of demarcation on this. On this episode is that sni believe in lamello ball, and Andrew does not.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, this. You guys, I'm old. I grew up playing NBA live, right?

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

And so I. I would love to have my own franchise on NBA live, and there will be some times where I would make so many trades through the years, and then, like, you would, like, simulate half the season because who's sitting there playing 82 games? Like, no one's doing that. So I sim half the season, and I get. And I'm like, I don't even recognize this team. Like, what have I done? Like, what did I do? What did I do here? And then you just hit reset and you try again. That's. That, to me, is where the timberwolves are. I think that they have. They're hitting the trade machine too much. There's not a lot of enough continuity with this team. I don't believe in lamelo ball. I don't believe in his health. I don't believe in him being a winning player. He's not played one playoff game yet. That worries me. You're hinging so much of your hope on lamelo. Yep. And that, to me, is a scary proposition. That is one where I'm going up to my gamecube and I'm hitting reset. Okay. That's what's happening. I'm. I'm like, I. I just don't believe this was the right move. I may eat a ton of crow, and I would be glad to eat crow because I like it when, like, risky moves like this work out. I just don't believe this will.

[Andrew Schlect]

I. I.

[Dave Dufour]

Because I. I'm curious now, like, how. What's. What do you think the bottom is? I. They're a better team than their record was last year. They had in poor injury luck last season, but this team is so different. Like, are they outside of the top six for you?

[Esperahenne]

Probably. Like, what's. What is their strength? Like, what's going to be their biggest?

[Andrew Schlect]

Wait. Even fully healthy, they're outside of the top six.

[Esperahenne]

For you, it's possible. What's their biggest strength? Like what. What's their identity now?

[Andrew Schlect]

I think now it would be the high volume three point shooting from Lamelo and Ants. Like now it's. It's like leaning on that as a major point of your. Your game. The ball handling juice between those three, those two, and IO Dsum playing fast. I think they found something last year with IO in those lineups injected to play quicker.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

So that is. It feels like a new part of their identity.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah. I like all of that. That sounds awesome. I like that. I just worry injury wise and I worry especially playoff wise because this is a team that's made the Western Conference finals twice. Right. And I just don't know that they're a team that can actually get back there with this, with this group.

[Dave Dufour]

Is Jaden McDaniels and Rudy Gobert enough on defense to make up for what you're gonna give up with Lamelo out there?

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

That's a question I have. Who's eating the innings that Julius Randle would take? You know, like the way that Julius Randle would lead those bench units, I think was massive for this team. They don't, they don't really have that kind of guy. I mean, IO is. Is really good in transition.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And. But half court is not exactly like he doesn't set the world on fire there. And also it's just a different type of player. The ability to punish other teams is just gone from them. So I'm curious about some of this and how it works out, but I still think they were going to be in that six seed. I mean, maybe it's, you know, they're. They're battling for the six seed and potentially.

[Andrew Schlect]

But okay, so what are the grades? What are you guys giving them?

[Esperahenne]

D +.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm gonna give him a B. I think turning nas reed into LaMelo ball is pretty good. I think moving off on Julius Randall, like the contract and some of the other stuff there. I don't love moving Nas Reed and Julius Randle. Yeah. Because I think you're just giving up, you know, too much in a position where you did have some strength. But yeah, I think I give him. Oh, man. Another B. A B minus.

[Esperahenne]

I know don't give bees.

[Andrew Schlect]

Hey, you get an A from me, Minnesota. Although you know what, I won't lie. Maybe, maybe May losing out on LeBron and not getting their starting fours, that does hurt them. Can I, can I bump it down to a B plus? Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, who's gonna be There. Who's gonna be there for that? That's honestly, like, it's a really good

[Andrew Schlect]

McDaniels, and I don't know if that's

[Dave Dufour]

going to be great for them. You know, I mean, maybe. Maybe Ant has to guard some fours. I don't know if that's great for. For them defensively either. Jaden McDaniels is one of the best perimeter and point of attack defenders in the NBA. And versatile. Yeah, like, he's maybe the most versatile defender also, but I don't know if you want to ask him to guard fours. I think that that's a little bit of a waste. You got Rudy to be the back line guy.

[Esperahenne]

Before we move on, Julius Randall has eight nicknames on basketball reference. Do you guys know any of.

[Dave Dufour]

Do you guys know any of them? No.

[Andrew Schlect]

Juju?

[Esperahenne]

No. Big Jew.

[Andrew Schlect]

Big Jew.

[Esperahenne]

But you got to be careful with.

[Andrew Schlect]

Sure.

[Esperahenne]

Okay, here they are. Tell me if you've ever called them any of these names, and hopefully you guys will call him these names, as he is the star of the Brooklyn Nets next year.

[Andrew Schlect]

Okay.

[Esperahenne]

Beyblade.

[Andrew Schlect]

Beyblade spins a lot. Yeah, yeah.

[Esperahenne]

Orange Julius.

[Andrew Schlect]

I've heard before.

[Dave Dufour]

I've heard, right?

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, yeah. Don Julio, Big Jew, King Julius, Black Panther, the Sergeant, and Goosebumps.

[Andrew Schlect]

There's no way. Black Panther and the Sergeant don't make sense to me.

[Esperahenne]

Did you all see the Sergeant tonight? Did you all see what the Sergeant was doing?

[Andrew Schlect]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, was he like an ROTC or something?

[Andrew Schlect]

Did he do the Wakanda forever?

[Dave Dufour]

Why is. I'm trying to figure that.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, maybe, maybe.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm not sure. This sounds like, you know how there was all these nicknames from China that have made their way onto basketball reference. Yeah, sounds like maybe. Maybe some of those. We got to find the root of these nicknames. All right, let's move on to Portland. While they're still in Portland, they added John Morant, Jeremy Sohan, Micah Potter, Brandon Carlson. We're going to need a full scouting report, Andrew, on Brandon BC Brandon Carlson.

[Esperahenne]

The only thing I can tell you about him, Brandon Carlson has a twin. Okay. And his twin is one foot shorter than him. Okay, we don't have to discuss it anymore, but just think about that.

[Dave Dufour]

Interesting. They lose Jeremy Grant, Matisse, Thibault, and Chris Murray. So this is a team that last season, I thought one of its hallmarks and one of the reasons why it did have some success was because it had so much wing depth, and they lost a lot of that in exchange for Ja Morant. Damian Lillard, Drew Holiday, and Scoot Henderson. Trying to figure out how all four of those guys are going to play that. Yeah, this is a confounding team as we sit here right now. And I actually, I don't think I'm in the minority in feeling as if making a move for John Morant just in case he could be John Morant. Worth it. Totally worth it.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Hmm.

[Esperahenne]

I'm out on that. No, don't do that. You shouldn't have done that. Okay. You shouldn't have done this. Portland is a dumb idea. Okay? We're. We're. God. You remember the storyline last year heading into the season was all about mentorship. We've got to mentor Scoot Henderson. This guy needs first class mentorship. And now what is this one about? This is. This is like, we have totally given up on you, Scoot Henderson. Like I personally, with what we saw, we saw like a big flash. Let's like sometimes we see like small flashes. This is like a giant flash in the playoffs of like Scooter Henderson had like an awesome game in the playoffs. And like now you trade for John Morant to just like, what message are you sending to Scoot? Like, you just. It's just basically they don't believe in Scoot. Like, let's just.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Right.

[Esperahenne]

Plain and simple, they're. They're done with Scoot and they may not say that we're not done with Scoot. You don't trade for John Morant. You don't trade Jeremy Grant for John Morant. And then like say that you're like still in on Scoot Henderson.

[Dave Dufour]

So some of this is a little new owner syndrome though, Andrew. I mean, we heard maybe that, that Tom Dundon asked about Christian Wood and why he's not playing, you know?

[Esperahenne]

Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah, I don't know.

[Andrew Schlect]

I will also, like, I'll just say on top of all of the weird roster construction things, the fact that the vibes around the ownership and arena situation here is enough to give this team

[Dave Dufour]

an F. I'm giving him an F just on vibes. Yeah, I like that.

[Esperahenne]

Yes.

[Andrew Schlect]

Because. Because how terrible do you have? Like, think about the amount of momentum that they had finishing off last season. Like, cool. Denny Abdia turns into an all star type player and they find this kind of gem to build around. And they're young guys and Donovan Klingon and Tomani Kamara like figuring things out. They have this interesting defensive minded group. But then everything gets thrown to the wayside because the ownership, the cheaping out on media cheaping out on basically anything team related. I think a lot of that takes away some of the fun, takes away some of the energy, takes away the life of a fan base in such a major way that like if you were to ask a Portland Trailblazers fan right now about how they feel about their team, I bet you they wouldn't even talk about the roster. They would just talk about the poor ownership situation and the arena and what it means for Portland moving forward. And I think that goes to show you it's indicative of how bad the vibes are for Portland right now.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, well, and the special thing that they had on their team was Denny Abdia. And what did Denny Abdia do? He led the league in drives. Right, Right. And what do you do? You deal for a point guard who the only thing that he can do on offense is drive. And so you're, you're diminishing what Denny did best by bringing in John Morant. Because John's not a good off ball player. He's not a guy who's going to like screen and cut and you know, spot up in the corner for threes. Like that's not his game. And so what you're doing is you're taking your all star forward. You're diminishing what he does. This to me feels so like way, way old, like 2000, like the OTS Knicks where it was like, let's trade for a name. Let's bring a name in here, let's sign somebody. Let's. It's Zach Randolph and Stefan Marbury and Steve Francis. And like all these guys that were like that were not going to help them, but they were a name that people recognize like that. To me it feels like that because what you're doing is you're not adding to the team and making it better. You're diminishing what your best player does best and asking him to go back to the corner or to the wing where he was in Washington and he was not that special where he, they, they made, they could, they traded for him pretty easily and they gave up what looks like an awesome trade now for Portland. But to me you're diminishing what Denny does best. Like that guy needs the ball in his hands. He needs to be the driver of your offense when you deal for a point guard who is, who does the same thing but worse than Denny does. Now like to me, this is all, this is an F, obviously the everything else you mentioned, but like the Encore product is going to suffer too.

[Dave Dufour]

F. Yeah, yeah, it's not. I don't think it's going to be very good, but it will be fun to watch. Okay, let's finish up in Utah. They obviously something they don't get credit for. They drafted Darren Peterson and I think he's gonna be really good for that. They get you credit. Don't get credit for the number two pick. They add Jackson Hayes and Joshua Kogi. They lose Walker Kessler kind of famously in the signing trade with the Lakers. Where you guys at on Utah, a team that I think we all expect to compete for a playoff spot?

[Andrew Schlect]

I would, I mean look, I, I love this Utah Jazz team heading into next season. I don't think much of it has to do with their, their specific off season outside of drafting Darren Peterson. I just thought this team was poised to take a leap anyways after trading for Jaren Jackson Jr. They have this really interesting core with Keonte George taking the leap last year obviously. I just, I think infrastructure wise they have an interesting offense too led by Will Hardy as their head coach. I think the Walker Kessler move can turn out to be a win for the Utah Jazz. They got four picks basically and I know Lakers fans are going to wild out with this. Yes, it was two pick swaps and two unprotected picks for Walker Kessler. Still they have control of the Lakers for the next foreseeable future and I think that's massive. I think that part of it really helps amplify their future moving forward. And because of that and because of everything that I expect this Utah Jazz team to be and kind of extending that to the Jaren Jackson trade and the Darren Peterson signing, I think this was an A plus season for off season for them especially because I think Yousef Nurkic can. He's really important for the foundation bottom line stuff that they did last year. He was really big for, for, for that rotation generally. I think that was a good resigning for them. I gotta give it an A. I, I really, really like this Jazz team heading into next season and I agree with you that I think there'll be a playoff team.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, A. I agree with everything s said. I think the Kessler trade is a slam dunk. Like it's a no brainer deal for Utah who has no incentive right now to like hit the gas and like be it be like a first apron team or whatever they were going to be with Walker Kessler on that kind of contract. Like you just, you don't need to do that. Like you just. In my opinion they just drafted their best player For. Yeah, they have a really strong supporting cast around him of a lot of proven players and. And Trip like Triple J is going to be awesome with these guys. I think this is an awesome off season for them. I think they've made a significant step forward. Where you look a year and a half ago, we were kind of looking at this team like, is there, are there any good players?

[Dave Dufour]

Where's the talent?

[Esperahenne]

They have one good player on this team and now you look up and it's like this is. This is a really stacked team and would they be better with Kessler? Yes. Does it matter that they are a first rounded out team with or without him? Like, no, it doesn't matter. Yeah, like the fact that you picked up that many assets and you squeeze the Lakers financially in a way that is. It could be detrimental to them. Like there's a huge downside with that trade for the Lakers.

[Dave Dufour]

They lose a lot of flexibility that way.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

Lose flexibility with the picks and with the money. I just think it was. That was just a home run deal. I think getting the second pick like you put. They positioned themselves last year to get that pick which you got to give the front office credit for. So like, I think this is an A. I think they're headed in the, the right direction. I think in the next like two or three years we could be talking about Utah as like one of the best three teams in the Western Conference.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. And not handcuffing yourself to a guy who's not a top five center.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

That's big money. And it's a bet that that Walker Kessler is going to be a top five guy. Yeah, I think an A is pretty fair. Guys. Let us know what you think about our grades in the comments. Leave us five star review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, that's going to do it for the this show and our off season grades. We're going to start looking ahead. Team previews coming up. Still got a lot of stuff to go through this summer, so stick around for all of that. For Esperaheni and Andrew Schlect, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening.

[Advertiser]

Make sure you hit the subscribe or

[Dave Dufour]

follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it. Drop a like leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[Advertiser]

With the Discover cash back card, it's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants. It pays to Discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Esperahenne]

Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing a SOFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low

[Andrew Schlect]

fixed rate monthly payment.

[Esperahenne]

Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan?

[Andrew Schlect]

Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

NMLS 696891 Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, Dark Web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial [e-mail] safety protect yourself [e-mail] safety.