Do the Lakers have enough to compete in the West?

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily — "Do the Lakers have enough to compete in the West?"

Date: July 15, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esfandiar Baraheni ("Es"), special guest Dan Woike (Lakers reporter – The Athletic)

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Episode Overview

This episode dissects the Los Angeles Lakers' transformative offseason and their prospects in a loaded Western Conference. Dave, Es, and Dan Woike discuss how the Lakers constructed a "Luka-centric" roster, the team’s strategic choices and future flexibility, and their placement in the West’s hierarchy for the 2026-27 season. The group analyzes the fit of key new additions, defensive concerns, and the challenge of playoff inexperience, all while comparing other Western contenders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How the Lakers Built Around Luka Doncic

• Theme: The Lakers are in a full transition to maximize Luka Doncic’s prime years, sacrificing long-term flexibility for immediate improvements.
• Dan Woike: “The most Luka Doncic version of the Lakers that it could become with the constraints their summer sort of provided them.” (04:51)

Lakers' Offseason Approach

• Aggressive Market Moves: Limited by the cap, the Lakers leveraged what little flexibility they had, making calculated “bets” on undervalued or role players.
  • “They had ‘use it or lose it’ cap space... and they had to be aggressive, and they were aggressive in a market where there weren't great free agents.” — Dan Woike (04:46)
• Customized Additions: Key signings (Walker Kessler, Sandro Mamukelashvili, Quentin Grimes) all reflect analytics and coaching input, aligning with Luka's style and needs.
  • "Luka Doncic really wanted Walker Kessler and worked to get Walker Kessler to the Lakers..." — Dan Woike (05:03)
  • "JJ Redick really like(s) Quentin Grimes... Rob Pelinka really likes scoring ball handlers...everyone kind of got some of what they wanted." — Dan Woike (05:35)

The Cost: Flexibility & Draft Capital

• The Lakers have little left to trade (one first-round pick swap, a few seconds), so these moves “better be the right decisions.” (06:12)

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2. Team Strengths and Weaknesses

Rim Protection and Luka Synergy

• Walker Kessler: Seen as a perfect pick-and-roll partner and rim protector for Luka.
  • "That's the reason I think they've gotten better...from a rim protection...he is the perfect type of big for what Luka is able to do." — Es (06:43)
  • "He's got to be good. He's incredibly important. His backup is Kevon Looney. He has to have a good healthy season." — Dan Woike (07:11)

Depth and Fit Questions

• Point of Attack Defense: Heavy reliance on Quentin Grimes, with no clear backup.

  • "As of today, I think it's Luka Doncic, Austin Reaves, Quentin Grimes, Mamu Kelishvili and Walker Kessler. I think that's a small group though." — Dan Woike (11:38)

• Regular Season vs. Playoff Utility: Players like Mamu Kelishvili are regular-season assets, but defense and playoff experience are untested.

  • "Mamu...he's a regular season winning machine...But when it comes to the defense, he gets hunted a lot...that's an issue, right?" — Es (16:01)
  • “None of these guys have played in the playoffs, right?...Walker Kessler has not in the playoffs." — Dan Woike (15:47)

Overall Defensive Identity

• Improved team defense is anticipated, but they’re “still missing like... one other guy who’s a get-into-the-ball type of player.” (13:03)
• Open to further roster tweaks; pursuit of Jonathan Kuminga or Ziaire Williams highlighted as ongoing. (13:33-14:05)

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3. Comparing to the West and Playoff Ceiling

Where Do the Lakers Fit in the West?

• Tiers Identified: Spurs and Thunder at the top, followed by a second tier: Denver, Minnesota, Lakers, Houston.
  • "As of today, feels like a pretty clear second tier, three through six or however we want to..." — Dan Woike (22:47)
• Lakers’ Standing: Repeatedly cited as probably the 3rd or 4th best team.
  • “I don’t think it’s crazy to think that the Lakers are the third best team in the west or the fourth best team in the West. I don’t think that’s insane.” — Dan Woike (24:28)
• Other West Intrigues: Portland and Utah flagged as potentially surprising, but not (yet) threats to the top tier. Discussion of Minnesota’s philosophical shift with LaMelo Ball.

Win Projections and Finals Aspirations

• Both Dan and Es think 50-plus wins is likely for a healthy Lakers team: “Assuming relatively decent health, they’ll win 50 games this year.” — Dan Woike (34:30)
• “I’d be stunned if it’s less than 50.” — Es (34:37)

“Windows are shorter than you think…”

• Dan Woike: “Your windows in the NBA are always shorter than you think they are...They open and close like in rapid succession.” (34:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the team’s construction:
  "It feels like everybody kind of got some of what they wanted... They have no draft picks really, to trade... these better be the right decisions."
  — Dan Woike (05:39, 06:12)

• On Walker Kessler’s importance:
  ”He's got to be good. He's incredibly important...his backup is Kevon Looney. He has to have a good healthy season.”
  — Dan Woike (07:11)

• On Luka’s effect:
  "One of [Luka’s] superpowers...he really makes people around him better."
  — Dan Woike (07:44)

• On the West’s new order:
  "The West is brutal, especially at the top...I don’t think it’s crazy to think that the Lakers are the third best team in the West."
  — Dave DuFour & Dan Woike (22:28–24:28)

• On NBA ‘windows’:
  “Your windows in the NBA are always shorter than you think they are. They open and close like in rapid succession.”
  — Dan Woike (34:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:10 — Welcome & Lakers offseason intro
• 03:31 — Segue from poker to Lakers offseason approach
• 04:51 — How the Lakers became a Luka-centric team
• 05:29 — Analytically-motivated signings: Mamu Kelishvili, Grimes
• 06:12 — Lakers’ limited future flexibility/tradable assets
• 06:30–07:14 — Walker Kessler’s crucial role, pressure on new center pairing
• 08:07–09:18 — Luka’s ability to unlock teammates, customizing the roster
• 11:38–12:30 — Projected starting lineup & defensive assignments
• 15:47–16:30 — Playoff inexperience and regular season vs playoff utility
• 16:51 — Trusting JJ Redick and the coaching staff to problem-solve
• 22:28 — Western Conference pecking order discussion
• 24:28 — "Third or fourth best team in the West" talk begins
• 31:22–33:18 — Ranking the second-tier West teams (Nuggets, Lakers, Wolves, Rockets)
• 34:30 — Win projection: "Assuming relatively decent health, they'll win 50 games..."
• 34:00 — Short NBA windows, urgency for the Lakers

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Summary Table: Lakers Key Additions & Roles

| Player | Role/Strength | Key Note | |-------------------------|---------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------| | Luka Doncic | Franchise star | Team built to maximize his skills | | Walker Kessler | Rim protector, pick-and-roll partner | "Perfect big" for Luka (07:11) | | Sandro Mamukelashvili | Shooting/stretch big, analytics darling | Regular season value, playoff question | | Quentin Grimes | 3&D, point of attack defense | May be starting, has to do a lot | | Kevon Looney | Backup center | Concerned about real impact if starting | | Colin Sexton | Scoring guard, relieves regular season load | Less playoff utility, important innings |

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Overall Takeaways

• The Lakers have redefined themselves rapidly, going all-in on giving Luka Doncic the right environment and pieces.
• They're in the upper echelon of the West (likely 3rd or 4th) but not yet in OKC/San Antonio’s league, and face depth, defensive, and playoff readiness questions.
• Walker Kessler’s health and development are pivotal; further marginal improvements or trades are possible but hard given the depleted asset pool.
• “Windows” are short—the next two years are crucial for this build before Luka's free agency.
• With good health and cohesion, 50-plus wins are likely, but championship contention depends on this group gelling and some young players (“bets”) paying off in the playoffs.

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Final Word

"You just have to know who you are and you have to lean into it...your windows in the NBA are always shorter than you think they are." — Dan Woike (32:54, 34:00)

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For more, read Dan Woike’s coverage at The Athletic.

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Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperahenny and special guest Dan Wojke. We're going to pick Dan's brain about the Lakers off season and where they rank in the west.

[Advertisement Voice]

Foreign.

[Dave DeFore]

Everybody. What is up Dan? Welcome to the pod. Dan Woi, Lakers reporter for us at the Athletic. You've had a fun start to your summer.

[Dan Woike]

I was gonna say like a little bit of how the sausage is made, guys. Good morning everybody. It's 2:00' clock in Los Angeles, which is when you actually say good morning to people in Las Vegas. So it's like super. Feels really appropriate. This is a good morning.

[Dave DeFore]

While you were waiting, you know you, you made some cash downstairs. Pretty amazing.

[Dan Woike]

Easy Uncle Sam. All right.

[Esperahenny]

Have you ever played Blackjack Switch?

[Dan Woike]

I played free blackjack down there.

[Esperahenny]

I just like blackjack Switch is awesome because you can switch your cards if you don't like them.

[Dave DeFore]

It's pretty sick. I've been playing Balatro, which is the video game card game that you guys should check out if you like, if you like.

[Dan Woike]

I usually, I, what I, what I have turned into is like my Vegas gambling. Like seriously is because like you don't really like get drinks anymore. Like there are fewer waitresses and, and waiters around, fewer servers. I don't know why I said that. Like waitresses, like an offensive turn. But like what I do is I'll go sit at the bar and play video poker and Get a couple drinks.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

And then that's mostly. I don't really gamble. Gambles anymore.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I don't gamble. I. I like. I like to play poker, like, with people I know.

[Dan Woike]

I like to put up.

[Dave DeFore]

I'm not.

[Esperahenny]

Would you guys consider yourselves good at poker?

[Dan Woike]

No. You know, I had a.

[Esperahenny]

You think Dave's gonna put.

[Dan Woike]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

I had a good run, you know, like, 10 years ago. I would play, like. But I had a lot of friends, and we would play a lot of weekend, like, tournaments, like, take a Saturday, Everybody throw in 20 bucks paying for pizza and beer, basically. And, you know, I. I would do pretty well. I've never sat at a real poker table and played, though. You know, Seth Part, now my old podcast partner. Very good. Larry Coon, senior Godfather. Also very good at poker. Like, a lot of. Actually, a lot of NBA writers and reporters are very into poker. I don't know how many of them are really good.

[Esperahenny]

Steph Noah was telling me he used to be a professional.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right.

[Esperahenny]

Which.

[Dan Woike]

Correct.

[Esperahenny]

Very, very.

[Dave DeFore]

That gambling to NBA media pipeline.

[Esperahenny]

Speaking of bets, the Lakers made bets this off season. Segway King, right here.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah, they did.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, so look, they. They pick up a bunch of guys just walk us through.

[Dan Woike]

That's one way to put it.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

A bunch of guys walk us through.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, like, basically what this team looks like right now, it looks like

[Dan Woike]

the most Luka Doncic version of the Lakers that it could become with the constraints their summer sort of provided them.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dan Woike]

Right. And so I think the way that I viewed this was that the summer was that, like. And we wrote this, like, this was the summer to give Luca the team or. Or the best chance at the team that they could give him.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Context was when he leaves Dallas. Like. Like, he doesn't request that trade.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

And that team was built for him.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

They just kind of gotten there. Right. And he really liked that roster. Comes to LA and, like, it's just not a Luca roster. It was like a little bit of a LeBron roster, a little bit of an Anthony Davis roster, and then it kind of slowly became a LUCA roster last summer. They just didn't put into play any real pieces. Like, they had user lose it basically cap space this summer because of Austin Reeves. Like, tiny cat.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

And so they had to be aggressive, and they were aggressive in a market where there weren't great free agents. So the way that I, like, kind of break it down, this is more of a theory, is that, you know, Kessler, to me, is, like, pretty clearly For Luca.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. Right. So like, and. And actually we can report.

[Dave DeFore]

Good play.

[Dan Woike]

I will report this. Luka Dotic really wanted Walker Kessler and worked to get Walker Kessler to the Lakers, and he's on the Lakers. This is more informed speculation. I'll say. Like, I know the front office has put in a lot, a lot of analytically based people as part of their transition. This new ownership group they signed, of the players they signed, the one who's like, really analytically, like, beloved is Sandro Mama Kashvili.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Did I say right?

[Dave DeFore]

No.

[Esperahenny]

Mamu Klishvili.

[Dan Woike]

Mamu Klishvili.

[Esperahenny]

Actually talking to two Mamu experts. Right.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. And, and, and so, like, and I know that JJ Redick really like Quinton Grimes.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

And I know that Rob Palinka like, really likes scoring ball handguns. And they had all of these sort of different needs, and it feels like everybody kind of got some of what they wanted. Yeah. The cost though, right, was to. To. To swim in the waters of restricted free agency. Like, the cost was steep. They have no draft picks really, to trade future first round picks. They have one swap which has, you know, some value, but not a lot. And they have now three seconds after getting two of them for DeAndre.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Right. So that's what they've got to get better. They don't really have the pathways to correct these mistakes. So these better be the right decisions.

[Esperahenny]

Better be the right guys. I mean, I think the one question I have, and I agree with you, that they. They've tangibly gotten better this year, this summer.

[Dan Woike]

You're so. I'm not sure of that.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dan Woike]

I think they've ditched just because of

[Esperahenny]

the LeBron James of it all.

[Dan Woike]

Of course, he's LeBron.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

I agree with that. Like, you don't take LeBron James off a team and get better.

[Dave DeFore]

I. I do think. I think Walker Kessler raises the floor regular season.

[Esperahenny]

That's the reason I think they've gotten better.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

I think I just. From a rim protection. And you talk about Luka Doncic and what he provides. He is the perfect type of big for. For what Luca is able to do. I mean, pick and roll maestro. But also the connection with the alley. Oops. That part I think will be perfect. But do you feel like there might be a little bit too much pressure on Walker to be the. The be all, end all for them defensively? Because this team, like, outside of him, I mean.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah, he's got to be good. He's incredibly important.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Like, he has to be good. Right. Like his backup is Kevon Looney. Yeah. Right. Like he has to have a good healthy season.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

And then those two things, like, you know, have to both like. Right. It doesn't work.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

I think though, the one thing about this roster that's different than last year and this is like an all due respect thing, which is usually the precursor to something disrespectful. But like, I actually don't think it is this time. Is that like, I don't know, like of the Lucas superpowers.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Of which are a few.

[Esperahenny]

Sure.

[Dan Woike]

One of them is that he like really makes people around him better.

[Esperahenny]

Absolutely.

[Dan Woike]

Right. Like, and I don't know how much better like the roster last year could have been made around him. And what I mean by that is like, you know, you had deandre Aiden who was trying to adjust to a new role, a very, very different role. And I think for the most part he tried, but it's not, it's not his natural state.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, it's a bad fit for him

[Dan Woike]

because he pull up. Yeah, yeah. Not his natural state. You know. Rui Hachimura, excellent spot up shooter. You know, had other parts of his game that like couldn't really be unlocked because of like Luca prefers players to be in a space he doesn't want as much cutting different things like that Ruiz of good baseline cutters. So like that kind of got like cut out of his game. But like Rui's not like a dribble pass shoot guy. Right, Right. Like, you know, in terms of that he's like kind of more of a spot up player.

[Esperahenny]

Mom, like certainly is a triple pass shoe player.

[Dan Woike]

So this is like, so like I think all this is to say that like, you know, and I think LeBron is LeBron.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Like, you're not really going to make life like that much easier for LeBron James. Like he's going to do that himself.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

I do think, like it was beneficial for Austin Reeves to play with, with Luca Donches. I think it will continue to be beneficial for Austin Reeves. But like, generally speaking, I think now the, the way they're able to like add these certain pieces, like you can unlock this like, hey, like my life is so much easier with Luca and, and I can kind of allow him to, to drive maybe even more and unlock things and bring out the best in players that, you know, still have undeveloped ceilings.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Woike]

I think it would be the way I'd put it.

[Esperahenny]

It's. I think that is the premise behind what the Lakers. That's the Idea for what the Lakers will be. I guess it's just like, will this be good enough to compete? And I know we're going to talk about that. Yeah. But will this be good enough to compete against the spurs, against the Thunder, against the rest of the Western Conference? And I just, you know, you talk about the, I guess, limited flexibility moving forward. This is, this is the team, is this the team that will help Luka get over that hurdle?

[Dan Woike]

So the cop out answer is it has to be. I think there's only one way to win in the NBA. There's one way right now and that's, you have to have a great player and you have to build the best possible team.

[Dave DeFore]

You gotta have nine or ten other

[Dan Woike]

guys around that and they all have to like when they, they all have to accentuate that best player strengths and they have to cover that, that, that

[Esperahenny]

best players in such an incredible way too.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. And like that's your only chance.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Like you don't this. There was a time, I think in the NBA like where like there was like, you'd hear people talk about like a copycat league, like, oh, we need to build a team that shoots a lot of threes or we need, we need a small ball five. Yeah. We need a team that plays this way or that space is of course, this. I, I just don't know that I, I believe that anymore. I think you can win a lot of different ways.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

And I think like, certainly if you're the Lakers, the way you're not going to win is by trying to play like the spurs or like by trying to play like the Thunder or the Knicks or the Celtics. Like that's not the roster you have and quite frankly, it's not the roster you can get.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

It's not there for you. What you can do. The one thing you can do is you can give your best player the best possible pieces around him and kind of go from there. I think they took big steps in that direction this summer. It is an incomplete process. They have some pretty big holes still. I mean, this is a team that I think right now is counting on Quentin Grimes to be the point of attack defender. There's a belief that. One of my questions, there is a belief that he can do it. There's also recognition that even if he can do it, like, who else is going to do it with him?

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Right. Like that. That is not the type of job that you want to take on by yourself just because you break down, like it's a really hard job.

[Dave DeFore]

So well, they, they need him to score too. That's the thing. It's like I think they need Quentin Grimes to, to score, at least to shoot.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

But I, I don't think he's coming off the bench as of today.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, really? Well, what's the starting line?

[Dan Woike]

Yeah, as of today, if I had to guess today, I think it's Luka Donches, Austin Reeves, Quentin Grimes, Mamu Kelishvili.

[Esperahenny]

That's perfect. You got it. Yep.

[Dan Woike]

And Walker Kessler. I think that's a small group though.

[Esperahenny]

I mean outside of Walker. Is that a small group?

[Dan Woike]

Less than you think.

[Dave DeFore]

It was good size at the four

[Dan Woike]

and Luca's good side. Like really?

[Esperahenny]

Really.

[Dan Woike]

Lucas, basically six, five.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

You know what I mean? Like you like it's.

[Esperahenny]

I guess it's just Grimes and Grimes,

[Dave DeFore]

your point of attack. But the issue is going to be, look, like you just said, it's not point of attack. Defense is not a one person job.

[Dan Woike]

Correct, Correct. And so I think, look, I think in Luca and in Reeves, you know, I reported at one point like there was a feeling that like, yeah, maybe there was like a little bit overblown about their defensive weaknesses. That what they can do, both of them are, they're good, they're good team defenders.

[Aura Advertiser]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

And like they can use their size, their smarts and their willingness to like funnel players into directions and like in theory, like this is where Walker Kessler should really, really help.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure.

[Dan Woike]

And that if you put them around smart players like, you know, the thing about team defense, right. Is like you just have to know that the person behind you is going to be where he's supposed to be. You have to know that the low man is there and willing to rotate. You have to like, you have to operate without any fear of a breakdown behind you. I think they profile today is a better team defense last year they still are missing.

[Dave DeFore]

Walker Kessler is huge.

[Dan Woike]

He makes a huge difference on that. They're just still missing like a guy who can kind of like one other guy, I think who's like get into the ball type of player. I mean they're, they have any option on the roster. I mean, look, Jared Vanderbilt's on the

[Dave DeFore]

team right now, but he's unplayable on

[Dan Woike]

the offense because the offensive stuff. Right. Like Bronnie James is six foot one.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esperahenny]

Do you think. I mean, I guess the other part to this is do you think they

[Dan Woike]

have, I mean Jake Laravia can do it at times, but it's not like you don't want to. That's A forever thing. I don't, I don't think for him.

[Esperahenny]

Could they make another trade or they

[Dan Woike]

could make another trade. I think they're, I mean, they're, they're trying to get Jonathan Kaminga.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Who doesn't even like, fully slot into this, into that. What they're looking for has the capability to do it. I think the best version of Jonathan Kaminga around the league, people would point to and say, like, it has point of attack defenses somewhere in that role.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

If you can pull it out of him. Right.

[Esperahenny]

If he can ever get through.

[Dan Woike]

If you can pull it out of him.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

I think, you know, I know there's some people in the organization who, like Zaire Williams as a player that's available, who's young, who's athletic, who, like, again, has done some of this before.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, he'd be nice for them.

[Dan Woike]

But, but look, you, you mean, you don't have a lot of. You don't have a lot of pathways to do it. Right now you have 14 players on your roster. You have a minimum slot that still exists. You can create more money by waving, stretching players, by making trades, by doing different things like that. But again, you don't have a lot in terms of the draft pick capital.

[Esperahenny]

It's also.

[Dan Woike]

The Aiden deal was a good piece of business for them to get those fixed. It was a weird piece of business in the timing that they, you know, could they have secured two Jackson Hayes as a backup before this.

[Dave DeFore]

Before it happens. Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

You know what I mean? And stuff like that. Like, they, you know, they, they started shopping for backup centers. I was like, a little later.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. So, I mean, look, starting lineup, I think they're going to figure some stuff out, whether Grimes can do the, the defensive job or not. I mean, they also, they have this option, like, again, Laravia could be in that starting lineup and you could be real big.

[Esperahenny]

That, that, that would be a much bigger group.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

To make sense. Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. And I mean, and I, and I think, too, right, like, what you don't want to do, right, is you don't want to play. You want to make sure you have, like, the right type of spacing around Luca Donches. Right. And like, I had wondered, like, okay, like, can you play Jared Vanderbilt and then have him play out of the dunker and have Kessler, like, as your high guy and pick and roll and different things like that. Like, if Vanderbilt was a better passer,

[Dave DeFore]

I think that you could do that.

[Dan Woike]

I just, you know, it. It also, like, feels more like an 82 game solution than a.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure.

[Dan Woike]

Than a 16. Than a playoff one.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

You know.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, they have different problems, I think, like the. The regular season stuff. This is why I say I think Walker Kessler raises that floor so much. Like they're going to have an easier time on defense.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Which means that as long as they have the high powered offense that we expect them to have, they're going to win a bunch of games. But it's playoff time that I worry about. Like, once you get into the matchup hunting and target, like they're going to go out.

[Dan Woike]

Also, none of these guys have played in the playoffs, Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Except for Luca.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I mean of the new acquisition.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Like Sean Sexton is not played in the playoffs. Walker Kessler is not in the playoffs.

[Dave DeFore]

What we saw to Mamu in last year's playoffs turn top.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah, he struggles.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah. You know, I actually think that's one of the things that maybe is a question for this Lakers team is that like Mamu for what he can do for you in the regular season, he's a regular season winning machine. Like, he really can juice a lot of lineups for you, space the floor. Especially with Luca and those like, pick and pop situations will be bread and butter. But when it comes to the defense, he gets hunted a lot. And then when it comes to the playoffs, that might be an issue. You take him out of the equation now you're losing, you're starting forward. It's just. Yeah, that's. That's an issue, right?

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. I mean, it's a challenge. And I think, you know, it's a really good Western Conference. It's going to be a really good Eastern Conference. Like, there's a lot of talent. I think this is sort of the point in a lot of ways of the apron system is like to move this talent around and parody what it is. And I think to win, like again, like I. And I think there should be some trust. There should be some trust in this coaching staff and jj.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. To figure this type of stuff out because they've been very good so far.

[Dave DeFore]

They were excellent. I thought last year and especially like in the playoffs, I thought they were great, you know, that I'm not too worried about it's. Is Luca going to be a playoff riser on the defensive end? You know, like, has he has the ability?

[Esperahenny]

I think so.

[Dan Woike]

I thought he. I mean, I thought in the month of March when like they were playing their best basketball this year, they were. They were fine defensively.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

If not Good at times. Like, like the things that Luca does well, use a size, create turnovers and things. He was doing that pretty well. The really loud mistakes, like the blow bys and different things like that were cut down during that stretch. I thought he played with really good energy. Yeah, they're going to have to. He's going to have to do that.

[Dave DeFore]

I think that can mitigate some of the Mamu. Like if you have to. If Luca has to slide up.

[Esperahenny]

Well, just. Just being bigger will mitigate a lot

[Dave DeFore]

because Lavia can come in and you don't have those same good defensive players and you don't lose too much size because again, Lucas, big, great rebound.

[Dan Woike]

He just has to sh. If Larabia was shooting like with real confidence, right. Like. Like he slots into what they're doing really well. You know, if they're able to get a player like Jonathan Kaminga who can like get out in the open court and play with that type of defense. Yeah. And just like take really easy shots. Like you're gonna get easy shots next to Luca.

[Esperahenny]

Of course.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Like, you know, like that slots pretty well. Like the problem is, is though, like there just aren't a lot of these guys that are like awesome at it. The ones that are very expensive. Right. You know, and like the Lakers are sort of hunting for it. I think one of the things I'm interested with them as they move forwards is just sort of like how do they improve on margins, different things like that. Because that's where they're going to have to live. Like, like their money is committed and it's committed fairly long term. Yeah, right. Like two, three or four year deals with player options. Like they're in it with these guys. They're going to have to be really shrewd in what they do and they have to.

[Dave DeFore]

And they have to start thinking ahead because it's crazy as it sounds. I mean, Lucas only got two years left.

[Dan Woike]

I mean, it's not crazy at all. I mean, I think that was a big role, a big reason why they were as aggressive as they were this summer.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, this is a very different. I mean, you talked about building a Luca type team, but this is a different look to a LUCA team than that finals run that they had with them that he had with the Mavericks.

[Dave DeFore]

That Mav seems so athletic. I mean, you had like, it was a defensive orientation. You had 48 minutes of solid center play out of Gafford and Lively. I mean, I think that that was huge for them. You know, I do worry like, what happens when Kessler's on the bench. Like, are you going small and you're juicing your your offense? Maybe you're playing a lot. 5. I'm not sure how they'll figure that stuff out, but I do. Let's take a quick break and then I want to talk about how they stack up now in the west because I think, you know, look, this is a team that should have finals aspirations because they have Luka Dodic.

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[Dave DeFore]

All right, so The Lakers are just a completely different team this year than they have been the last couple of seasons. The west is brutal, especially at the top. Always as spurs and Thunder. Then you've got the Nuggets, you've got maybe Minnesota. Like, we'll see how things work there with Lamelo and losing Nas Reed and Julius Randall. The Rockets are always kind of in the mix there. You know, as long as you've got the talent that they've got. How do you feel the Lakers stack up in the west and are they competitive? Like, are they like a real contender in the west right now?

[Dan Woike]

Well, I mean, I think you kind of just teared it right there.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

And I think that's probably the best way to do this is okay. So I think if we were going to say who's the best team in the west, we'll pick one or two teams.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes. Spurs or Thunder. That's right.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

I think I would lean Thunder. I think like a slight lean.

[Esperahenny]

Sure, sure.

[Dan Woike]

But it's.

[Dave DeFore]

They were the one seed.

[Dan Woike]

It's slight.

[Esperahenny]

Sure.

[Dan Woike]

Right. But those are the two best teams and I really like what they both did at the draft too. I think both had really good drafts. And then I think the. All those other teams, the Denver, Minnesota, the Lakers, the Rockets, to me, like as of today, feels like a pretty clear second tier, three through six or however we want to, you know what I mean? And like, who knows where the warriors fit into this, which could be a LeBron James destiny.

[Dave DeFore]

Probably not.

[Dan Woike]

I mean, you know, could change though, but like, we don't know. Right. Like, I mean, I think like, you know, does Portland slot up? Is that a team?

[Dave DeFore]

Do you like the summer that they've

[Esperahenny]

had with John Dan?

[Dan Woike]

I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but they've had a talent.

[Dave DeFore]

They have.

[Dan Woike]

You know, I think it's certainly a more aggressive version of that roster.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

I think Utah might take a job.

[Dave DeFore]

Darren Peterson, I mean, he just looks like he's ready to go.

[Esperahenny]

But even just like, I mean acquiring,

[Dan Woike]

I wouldn't put like. I mean like the Dallas Mavericks have year two Cooper flag. They have Kyrie Irving. They've got, you know, I feel like

[Dave DeFore]

they can be in the play in mix.

[Dan Woike]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. I mean, I think like they're. Those teams like always tend to like to. To move, you know, like some, some team is going to move from like the 7 to 10 range, 7 to 11 range. But it does really like that top six feels pretty set.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dan Woike]

Today where it slots out. I mean, I Would say. Yeah. I mean, look, I think people forget I'm going to sound like a Lakers apologist. Like the Lakers had a better. Like the Lakers handled Minnesota last year.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Like Luca and the Lakers handled Denver.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, yep.

[Dan Woike]

Last year. You know, that's if you do think it's a better team in some ways or a deeper handled the Rockets. They handle the Rockets in a playoff series. Like, I mean, I don't think it's crazy to think that the Lakers are the third best team in the west or the fourth best team in the West. I don't think that's insane.

[Aura Advertiser]

Oh.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean Luka Doncic can be the best. Like he is.

[Dan Woike]

Luka. Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

It comes down to giving Luka Doncic an opportunity in the playoffs and we didn't get to see that last postseason. But you hope that you can give him a team that can get to a second round series or a Western Conference finals versus the spurs and the Thunder. And then at that point, who knows?

[Dan Woike]

I mean this is like sort of the logic of Colin Sexton. Right. Like weirdly enough. And is that scoring guards in particular, like have generally not had a tremendous utility in the playoffs. Yeah, it's just not as much of a thing.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Game slows down.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

More matchup oriented. All that different stuff where Collins Sexton can really, really help this Lakers team is like by taking offensive load.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Off of Luca, 16 points a night,

[Dan Woike]

82 games over the course of the season. Right. Because both of those players got hurt, you know, after carrying like a tremendous offensive load.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

For most of that season. So I think like that's an area where I think having another pretty good on ball guard, you know, good shooter, like had had a really good offensive season last year could really help them. But yeah, I mean I, I kind of, that's sort of how I feel. I mean is there a team, is there like a back half of the conference team that you feel like is a sleeping giant?

[Esperahenny]

I will just say I think I, I'll stake them.

[Dan Woike]

We didn't say the Phoenix Suns.

[Esperahenny]

I think they would take a step back. Yeah, I can see them take a step back. Yeah, I, I think the team would be the Utah.

[Dave DeFore]

Utah. Utah is probably the one that.

[Esperahenny]

I just think you have Jaren Jackson Jr. You have Lowry, Markkanen. That's a lot of good front court talent. And then you're expecting Keonte George to play at least at a similar level to what he played last season. I think that's a team that can make a jump now. They can Make a jump but still not be in that 3 to 6 category.

[Dave DeFore]

Still could be in that play in range.

[Dan Woike]

I mean Portland is a team that I think at least tal talent wise is. Is curious to me if J.

[Dave DeFore]

Like if Ja pops and he's an all star. Ja.

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Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

But I don't see how you start like John Damian Lillard is not a functional NBA backcourt.

[Dan Woike]

Andrew Holiday and Scoot Henderson, it's a lot of guards.

[Dave DeFore]

Shane Sharp, they got a lot of guys.

[Dan Woike]

But like this is also a team that has too many Kamara.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

This is also a team that has Denny Abdia, that has Donovan, you know, like and it has like these other. Robert Williams is back. It has like these other like sort of like winning. Like I like to me like pieces around winning.

[Esperahenny]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

They were a team that I thought was like in real need of like some type of offensive engine guard that. That just felt like. Like that like they could get that.

[Esperahenny]

And now they're adding two and now

[Dan Woike]

they kind of have two now, you know, if you have two, that might mean you have none.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

But. But I think like, you know, no one knows what Dame's going to look like. I think this year. I think that's reasonable. No one knows what. John. John.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't mind the flyer on John. Like I think that why not like he's 26 years old. Like why not See if he's.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

And they basically got him for nothing.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

So. So I think that is you know, like Grant like had utility for them.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes.

[Dan Woike]

And did things that mattered that you know, from a shooting standpoint and like they. They have less shooting.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

In that way.

[Dave DeFore]

Their wing depth took a big hit. Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

You know, but then. But they're. They're. I think they're squirrely. They're an interesting team.

[Esperahenny]

The one actually now that I'm kind of looking at the Western Conference standings and I've been trying to load it up here on my live.

[Dan Woike]

Okay.

[Esperahenny]

Minnesota did get lamello ball. They're like different than what they were last time.

[Dan Woike]

So different.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Do you think they're different? Better for the Lakers? Different. Worse for the Lakers.

[Dan Woike]

I mean I think like, you know, I think they are a such a different philosophical team.

[Esperahenny]

Totally.

[Dan Woike]

Than they were last year. That like there ha. It feels like there just has to be an adjustment period.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Like they might take a while during

[Dave DeFore]

the rest, but there's a lot of stuff that just on paper directly like you. Anthony Edwards is one of the best catch and shoot guys.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Actually in the NBA. He just doesn't get that many opportunities. He's going to get a ton of. No one in Minnesota has been able to throw Rudy Gobert a lob. Yep. He's gonna have opportunities. Like, it's gonna be easier buckets for him. Yeah, I think Lamelo, like, if. Let's see how the health stuff goes with them. We always have to assume health.

[Dan Woike]

And this is a team, by the way, though, that like, also like, punish teams with power forwards.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right.

[Dan Woike]

Like, like Julius Randall regular seasonings eater, like in the regular season, getting matchups for Julius Randall and Nas Reed has been a big part of like, what

[Esperahenny]

they've done and they do not have that.

[Dan Woike]

They don't have a powerful.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah. Right now they missed out on Rui Hachimura, who I think could have actually been pretty good.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, I thought Mama would have been a guy for them too. They kind of missed out on all the power forwards maybe waiting for LeBron James.

[Dan Woike]

He'd be a good fit there.

[Dave DeFore]

It would.

[Dan Woike]

I mean, he would be.

[Dave DeFore]

It would be a great fit to me. Like the LeBron James. Yeah. I mean, I think Denver and Minnesota are like the two coolest options. If I was just picking like 2K style, where's. I don't like the Philly fit for LeBron. I think.

[Esperahenny]

Interesting.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I just don't. I don't love it. I think like, when you get playoff time, you're going to have personality conflicts with. There's a lot of mouths to feed in Philly and LeBron. I mean, that's. You're going to add a great white to that situation. I don't think that's. That's good also, like, I think that you need a team that can. Is going to be able to carry LeBron through the regular season. I think Cleveland is more set up for that. They just have more guys. Donovan, Mitchell, James Harden, like, they can eat those innings to get you to the playoffs. And then when you get there, I think those guys probably it's a little easier for them to defer to LeBron than.

[Dan Woike]

Than you don't. Here's the other thing too. You don't like, really have. Like, that's not. You don't have to defer LeBron in that way anymore. Like, he understands, I think. But like, where it gets interesting is that like, he, you know, used to win you games.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Right. I think now he's more like he'll win new quarters or stretches, you know, and he can win you a game, certainly.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

And I Mean, he just won the help win the Lakers a series. He was incredible on that, you know, but he had real help. Like, yeah, like, General was very serious.

[Dave DeFore]

There were a couple games where it felt like, not like he was punting the games, but like, he definitely wasn't the same starter.

[Dan Woike]

I mean, like, like, I mean, he's gonna be 42 next year. Right. Right. So I think, like, putting him around depth is. Is going to be really good and letting him, like, I don't worry about him fitting or bending his game. Like, I mean, he has all the tools. Like, that's.

[Dave DeFore]

That he could legitimately go to any team. And that team is gonna be any basketball. Yes. But when I', hairs, I. I prefer the basketball fit in Cleveland over Philly.

[Esperahenny]

Okay. Before we get out of here, I want to do a rank them. You kind of mention the group that you think the Lakers are in. Oklahoma City, San Antonio, kind of in a different tier to the Lakers. Rank the following teams. The Denver Nuggets, the LA Lakers, the Houston Rockets, and the Minnesota Timber Wolves.

[Dan Woike]

I think the Lakers are, as of today, I would say third.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dan Woike]

Because they're the most fully formed of those teams.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dan Woike]

I think. Well, okay. Yeah. I think I'm struggling between Denver and Houston here. I think Houston has a chance to be a really good regular season basketball team.

[Esperahenny]

Get Fred Van Vleet back. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

They got Bruce Thornton.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

Like, I think.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I am. I mean, I think, look, he's gonna play and he's Bruce. Right. I think it's gonna be a pretty good backup.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah. Like, you know, I, like, that's the best of my life, I think has, like, you know, obviously, like, they have the pieces. Like, can they make it all sort of work together? A lot of personalities, too. All right. I'll say. I mean, we talk about flow raises like Nicole Jokic.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

Like, he's fourth. Yeah. You know, maybe third and that. And then I. All right, I'm gonna bump Houston all the way down. All right, let's do this again. We've got. We've got. I said Oklahoma City, San Antonio. I will say Lakers third.

[Esperahenny]

You said.

[Dan Woike]

I will say. I'm going to change that. I'm going to say Denver third. Lakers four, Minnesota five, Houston six.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow, that's a lot of faith in Lamelo.

[Dan Woike]

It's.

[Esperahenny]

How would you change? I feel like I completely.

[Dave DeFore]

I probably. I probably have Houston above Minnesota today just because, like, it's, it's.

[Dan Woike]

There's going to be. Yeah, I don't really know. I don't Yeah, I actually like. I mean, I think so what I believe in teams in general. I'm gonna talk about this a lot. Bears, like, you just like sort of have to know who you are and you have to like lean into it.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

So, yeah, let's flip Houston, Minnesota for me. Because Houston knows what it is.

[Dave DeFore]

Exactly. Right.

[Esperahenny]

Especially in a regular Minnesota.

[Dan Woike]

Minnesota is going to learn who it is.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dan Woike]

And like Minnesota may be a better team in April, they may be gangbusters. I mean, but it's gonna take. It should take.

[Esperahenny]

You would.

[Dan Woike]

They will say take time.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, that's fair. Lamelo is gonna. I think he's really gonna impact their offense so much. He's go.

[Dan Woike]

Everyone's life will be very interested to watch him play. What's the word I'm looking for? Like high importance basketball.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

That's not a shot at what Charlotte did last year, but like where it's

[Dave DeFore]

like their expectations in Charlotte last year when they started the year compared to way they finished, like, it was a. Oh, we're a great, you know, it's a great story. Oh, we're just happy to be here. Whereas in Minnesota, man, this is a. Hey, we gotta win.

[Dan Woike]

The goal is to win here.

[Dave DeFore]

Like we just talked about with Luka Doncic. I think Minnesota's got that same issue brewing with Anthony Edwards. I mean, this sort of shake up to me, like signals, hey, we gotta, we gotta try to win around this guy. Because two years from now, I mean, Atlanta's gonna be calling, Chicago's gonna be. You know what I mean? Like, people are gonna be calling about.

[Dan Woike]

I mean, you can't stick with your. You look, look, the, the lesson here, right, is like your windows in the NBA are always shorter than you think they are.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Dan Woike]

They open and close like in rapid succession.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, we like to say it's more, it's more like a hallway.

[Dan Woike]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And some of these doors are locked and you might get lucky. And it opens up. When we look at the Knicks last year, like, I think that the Knicks found an open.

[Dan Woike]

Been walking up and down the hallways here, just pulling on doors, just seeing what happens. Yeah, security.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, they love me around here.

[Dan Woike]

Interesting.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. All right. But how many wins for the Lakers? Like, are they. Are they a 50 plus win team?

[Dan Woike]

They've won 50 wins twice with JJ Redick, though. I mean, assuming relatively decent health, they'll win 50 games this year.

[Esperahenny]

I'd be stunned if it's less than 50.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. The west is going to be brutal. That's going to be awesome. All right, everybody go read Dan Woicke over at the Athletic. He's the best.

[Dan Woike]

Thanks guys.

[Dave DeFore]

And for Esperahenny and Dan Woieki, I'm Dave defore and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening.

[Dan Woike]

Make sure you hit the subscribe or Follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us. What if your drive was fueled with more like More protection for more time on the road? Shelby Power Nitro plus provides more protection for longer lasting engines, so it helps keep your engine running like new for whatever drive is ahead. Shelby Power Nitro plus engine performance that that lasts compared to minimum detergent gasoline. With continuous use of Shelby Power Nitro plus and gasoline direct injection engines, actual effects and benefits may vary. See Shell us More Protection for more information. Hey listen. Can you hear that? That silence is the sound of a three thousand dollar vet bill.

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