Dybantsa's Competitive Fire + Kawhi Leonard Trade Drama

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Dybantsa's Competitive Fire + Kawhi Leonard Trade Drama
Date: July 10, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour & Esfandiar Baraheni (Es)
Location: Summer League, live from a hotel room

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Episode Overview

This episode kicks off with the hosts reflecting on the first day of Summer League—highlighting the joy of reconnecting with basketball friends and the buzz around emerging NBA rookies. The main focus is on the debut performances of top prospects A.J. Dybantsa and Darren Peterson, the evolving Washington Wizards and Utah Jazz ecosystems, and an in-depth exploration of the ongoing Kawhi Leonard trade controversy involving the Raptors and Clippers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Summer League Vibes & NBA Culture

• Networking and Atmosphere:

  • The hosts celebrate the energy and camaraderie of Summer League as a unique annual tradition.
  • Dave: "I pretty sure I gave like 150 hugs today, which is great." (02:04)

• NBA Stars Spotted:

  • Sightings of Paul Pierce (enjoying Bojangles), Scotty Barnes, Brandon Ingram; lighthearted observations about NBA personalities mingling and supporting their teams and friends.
  • Es: "Saw Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingram embrace. We're going to talk about the Kawhi Leonard stuff in a little bit." (02:54)

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2. Standout Performances: A.J. Dybantsa, Darren Peterson, & More

A.J. Dybantsa (Washington Wizards)

• Physical Tools & Athleticism:

  • Dave highlights Dybantsa's "wrong-foot, sky-high" dunk and unique standing reach.

    "That was one of the more athletic plays I think I've seen anyone do at summer league. It was pretty insane." (03:29)

• Shot Mechanics & Offense:

  • Es finds flaws in Dybantsa’s two-motion shooting form and questionable shot selection, likening some issues to Andrew Wiggins’ early years.

    Es: "Some of the shots and some of the decision making. I don't like his jumper, turnaround jumper. He likes it." (04:04)
    Dave: "He does like to jump off his right foot quite a bit...he loses the ball up top, regains control and just flushes." (03:29)

• Comparison & Projections:

  • Dave: "He reminds me a little bit. He's got like a little Andrew Wiggins to him..." (08:22)
  • Es: "My comp...is that he is a more athletic Demar DeRozan and so if that mid range jumper becomes Demar level...maybe that will change his offensive trajectory in a major way." (08:51)

• Competitive Fire:

  • Both hosts love his intensity, aggressiveness, and "dog"-like competitiveness.

    Dave: "DebonSA, day one, that dude has got dog all in him. Like, he is just. He's trying to be the best player on the court. Like, you saw that tonight." (11:56)

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Darren Peterson (Utah Jazz)

• Physical Challenges:

  • Struggled at times with physical defenders, particularly working off screens.

    Es: "He struggled physically...when there was a little bit of physicality...I thought he struggled." (09:25)

• Skillset Notes:

  • Strong use of off-arm, excellent pacing, confident in his own game.

    Dave: "He's good with his, at using his offarm...His pacing is still great too." (09:44)

• Shooting Mechanics:

  • Concerns about release timing resulting in frequent front-rim misses.

    Dave: "His motion is fine but his release is bad and so like he releases maybe a little bit early and he winds up front rim a lot." (10:37)

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Other Rookie & Team Observations

• Trey Johnson (Washington):

  • "Should not play any more summer league games. He is, too." (05:21)

• Morez Johnson (Dallas Mavericks):

  • "Dallas Mavericks big man...He's a five...with a 7'5 wingspan...already a very, very good rim runner..." (13:06-13:22)
  • Dave: "Like, Dwight Howard." (13:20)

• Sergio DeLara (Dallas Mavericks):

  • Esfandiar notes he’s an interesting forward from Europe—good playmaker and passer. (14:11)

• Team Projections:

  • Excitement about pairing Morez Johnson and Cooper Flagg for the Mavericks defensively.
  • Both the Wizards (with A.J. Dybantsa and their new core) and Jazz (with Peterson) are expected to take a leap.

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3. Player Development, Roles, and Team Identity

• Washington Wizards:

  • Debate on ball-handling duties for Dybantsa, especially with Trae Young and Trey Johnson present on the team.

    Dave: "By the end of the year, he's going to be on the ball much more than the start of the year...he's going to have to get reps out there without Trey Young." (06:24-06:38)

• Utah Jazz:

  • Clear system identity, with Lauri Markkanen as a top play-finisher and Will Hardy’s system praised for its structure. (07:27, 10:21)

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4. Kawhi Leonard Trade Controversy (Raptors-Clippers Investigation)

• Current Situation:

  • During a Raptors practice interview, news breaks: if the trade goes through, the Raptors inherit any penalties that may be levied against Kawhi Leonard. (19:26-19:41)

• Investigation Frustrations & Process:

  • The hosts express bafflement at the ongoing 10-month NBA investigation into possible improper benefits or violations related to Kawhi and the Clippers.

    Dave: "This is a longer investigation than like Watergate. It's 10 months long." (22:35)
    Es: "The NBA has informed the Toronto Raptors that, hey, by the way, if you want to push this deal through...you will be responsible for the penalties that have happened." (21:32)

• Possible Outcomes & League Dynamics:

  • Low expectations of harsh penalties, especially given historical league handling of infractions and likely involvement of the Players Association if things get severe.

    Dave: "To punish Kawhi for this, this is, I agree with show job for 20 million." (21:50)
    "I just don't expect there to be any sort of tangible, like real punishment." (26:09)

• Trade Fallout & Theoretical Scenarios:

  • If penalties are significant, elements of the deal (picks, players included) may be recalibrated, but all signs point toward the trade eventually being completed.

    Es: "Ultimately this trade is going to go through. Ultimately, Kawhi Leonard will be a Raptor. Ultimately, Brandon Ingram will be a L.A. Clipper." (25:24)

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave (on Dybantsa’s fire):

  "Day one, that dude has got dog all in him. Like, he is just...trying to be the best player on the court." (11:56)

• Es (on NBA investigations):

  "This is a longer investigation than like Watergate. It's 10 months long." (22:46)

• Dave (on Summer League experience):

  "If you're listening or if you're watching on YouTube and you've never been to summer league, I cannot recommend it enough...that's fun. It's really fun. And you see some of the craziest basketball jerseys you've ever seen in your life." (27:51)

• Es (on NBA's buddy-buddy culture):

  "I think they're still competitive, but I don't mind it being just like, oh, there's more nice guys." (11:52)

• On Kyrie Irving (Dusty May’s quote):

  Es: Dusty May said watching Kyrie at practice was "like Picasso painting a painting." (14:38)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:29 – A.J. Dybantsa's insane dunk and two-motion shot breakdown
• 05:07–06:53 – Wizards' crowded backcourt and Dybantsa’s evolving role
• 09:25 – Darren Peterson’s struggles with physicality
• 10:21 – Jazz, Lauri Markkanen, and system fit
• 11:56 – Summer League competitive fire: Dybantsa vs. Peterson
• 13:06 – Morez Johnson’s physical profile and Mavericks preview
• 19:26 – Breaking news: Raptors to assume penalties for Kawhi trade
• 22:46 – NBA’s slow investigation and its impact on the trade
• 25:24 – Trade outlook: How the Kawhi deal likely resolves

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Conclusion

Day one of Summer League delivered promising signs from new rookies, tough questions about evolving team identities, and lighthearted NBA moments off the court. The episode’s deep dive into the Kawhi Leonard-Clippers-Raptors saga leaves fans waiting for resolution in what may become one of the most unusual transactions in modern NBA history. The hosts encourage listeners to experience Summer League first-hand for its raw, fun energy and behind-the-scenes look at the NBA’s next generation.

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Transcript

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The world turned upside down.

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Unlike any World War II docu series before World War II with Tom Hanks. New episode Monday at 8, only on History. Next day on the app.

[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for July 10, 2026. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperaheny live from summer league, my hotel room. Good morning everybody. What is up as late night for us? Day one of summer league in the books.

[Esperaheny]

Late day all day. It's been, it's been a grind since about 7 in the morning.

[Dave DeFore]

Fun. This is, look, summer league is, is my favorite basketball thing. Yeah, definitely my favorite NBA thing and one of my favorite weeks of the year that I get to spend. Like, I pretty sure I gave like 150 hugs today, which is great.

[Esperaheny]

Like it's a good time to meet some pals, to meet some people that you haven't seen in a while. It's also a great time for NBA fans to get introduced to the new age of stars. We got to see that a little

[Dave DeFore]

bit also, if you guys didn't catch it over on YouTube, s had a chance to sit down with Alan Graves from the Toronto Raptors.

[Esperaheny]

Nice guy.

[Dave DeFore]

He great. You know, I really, I loved, I mean I loved his personality quite a bit. Yeah, like he was a lot of fun. I think you guys would enjoy that if you didn't get a chance to catch it. What was the who's the most famous former player that you saw today? Did you see anybody? I saw My favorite thing.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah. I saw Paul Pierce eating Bojangles.

[Dave DeFore]

I also saw Paul Pierce eating Bojangles. I think he was eating Bojangles for a while.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, yeah, he was there for a while. He was eating it in the little stu. If you guys know that there's a little studio space in Thompson Mac center and he was using the desk as his little area to eat the Bojangas, which was funny. Saw Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingram embrace. We're going to talk about the Kawhi Leonard stuff in a little bit. That's certainly interesting. Who else did we see? Famous NBA players? Anybody from you?

[Dave DeFore]

No.

[Esperaheny]

Did you see Malik Rose? You're.

[Dave DeFore]

I didn't see Malik. I didn't see him. You know, I'm sure we'll run into each other at some point this week.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

You know who I did see? Darren Peterson. AJ DeBonsa. That dunk that AJ DeBonsa had where he loses the ball on the way up. He jumped and I'm. I'm learning this as I'm watching tape on him. He does like to jump off his right foot quite a bit. Yeah. And he jumps off. So it's wrong foot jump. He's sky high in the air. I feel like he's got like a nine foot standing reach and he loses the ball up top, regains control and just flushes. That was one of the more athletic plays I think I've seen anyone do at summer league. It was pretty insane.

[Shopify Founder]

It's.

[Esperaheny]

It's one of those things where he's still 19 years old and he, he very clearly has all of the physical tools possible to get to a certain level in his career. It's not perfect right now. Some of the shots and some of the decision making. I don't like his jumper, turnaround jumper. He likes it.

[Dave DeFore]

It's not good.

[Esperaheny]

He's a big fan of it.

[Dave DeFore]

The thing is he has this two motion and we're going to get a little nerdy here, but he's got this two motion shot and I'm not. Look, I. Klay Thompson has a two motion shot. You can be a great shooter with dam. Lillard has a two point but it makes you slower.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Like we saw him get a three pointer blocked. I think that the turnaround part of the issue there is he's got to create so much space when he turns.

[Esperaheny]

Yes.

[Dave DeFore]

To get that slower shot off. And he's also doing it.

[Esperaheny]

It's.

[Dave DeFore]

It's a lower release point.

[Esperaheny]

Well, he's also like you're in motion Right. It's. That's why, like, a fadeaway jump shot is always hard because the angle and the way that your body is jumping away from the basket.

[Dave DeFore]

But we're nitpicking. A guy who had 27.

[Esperaheny]

He had 27. I thought the thing, you know, outside of the offense, which I think will be a work in progress, and I'm very fascinated to see how that works in Washington, where there are a lot of mouths to feed between Trae Young and Trey Johnson, who was incredible. And Trey Johnson.

[Dave DeFore]

Trey Johnson should not play any more summer league games. He is, too.

[Esperaheny]

We are shutting you down.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

If Brian Keefe is not shutting you down, we are. But between Trey Young and Trey Johnson, between Anthony Davis, obviously between Alex Saar and Bilal and Keyshawn, it's like.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, we were not saying below because Koulibaly doesn't touch the ball.

[Esperaheny]

He doesn't. But, but at the same time, he's still a player that they have to factor. Bob Carrington is touching the ball. Will Riley might be touching the ball.

[Dave DeFore]

If they're trying to win, which I think they will be.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, judging by the.

[Esperaheny]

They should be trying to.

[Leesa Mattress Advertiser]

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[Dave DeFore]

Well, every team's trying to win now. Allegedly. What are the Bucks doing? Not trying to win, but, you know, if they're trying to win, I don't think Bub Carrington plays much for them. I, I, I just, I don't, I don't know if Kula Bali plays a lot, even though he's good. Like, he's coming off the bench.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And he, his offensive game is so limited. I just, Look, I think debons is going to be on the ball.

[Esperaheny]

He'll start on the ball.

[Dave DeFore]

I think he's going to be.

[Esperaheny]

They didn't even put him on the ball.

[Dave DeFore]

He was a little bit on the ball in this game. I think by the end of the year, he's going to be on the ball much more than the start of the year. And part of that is going to be like, he's going to have to get reps out there without Trey Young. Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Bench lineups.

[Shopify Founder]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

He's going to have to do that stuff. And honestly, I brought this up while we were watching the game. I was surprised that Trey Johnson was out there so much with DebonSA, because I, I wanted to see, hey, what's it look like when he's got the ball in his hands? Yeah, he initiated a little bit, but

[Esperaheny]

I think, I think that will. Because of Trey Young. Because of Bub, who I, I Think will play. I, I, I Sorry. He's going to be a rotation player for them. And when it comes to AJ I think you could get a lot more out of him. And honestly, this applies to Darren Peterson a little bit too. You can get a lot more out of him if you work him off of ball.

[Dave DeFore]

For sure. Like Peterson especially like if the shot, like if his catch and shoot is real. Yeah. Like if it's that good, then yeah, he's going to be very good. And especially playing off of Jerry in

[Esperaheny]

that Will Hardy system.

[Leesa Mattress Advertiser]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

And I, I, this is actually part of what we, we're talking about with the Wizards. I don't know what the wizard system is. We know exactly what the Utah Jazz like to do. We know the players that they have. We know exactly the stylistic way that they want to play. We have no idea what the Washington.

[Dave DeFore]

It does feel a little bit like, I feel like the Wizards, they like Brian Keef. I don't understand how you kept him

[Esperaheny]

after, after, after 83.

[Dave DeFore]

After Bam's 83.

[Esperaheny]

Oh, man.

[Dave DeFore]

But also just like wouldn't you want to start out with maybe a clean slate? I mean, now maybe he's the guy that they really believe in going to develop debona. Okay, great. We'll see. But you're right, like what is their, what is their identity going to be?

[Esperaheny]

What's the patent?

[Dave DeFore]

They're going to be a Trey Young team. Right. Because they paid them so much money, so they have to do that ton

[Esperaheny]

of pick and roll. A lot of Anthony Davis and Trey Young pick and roll. A lot of Alex Sar and Trey Young pick and roll.

[Dave DeFore]

And I think AJ DeBonsa kind of fits in that nicely. If, like, if, if he can be a high level role player as a rookie. That's pretty good. Yeah, pretty good spot for him. He reminds me a little bit. He's got like a little Andrew Wiggins to him and that's a type of

[Esperaheny]

player that will traumatize the Wizards fan.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. But Andrew Wiggins is still a very good player.

[Esperaheny]

One Rookie of the year.

[Dave DeFore]

I'm not saying that they're like Marvel Jordan, but he just has some of that stuff to his game where I think he could, he could have fit on like 10 different teams.

[Esperaheny]

I think Wiggins also, especially early in his career had the same like shot selection issues where like he was hunting the mid range, same bad two motion down the true motion stuff like. Yeah, I can see where you're going there. My, my comp, I guess that I've seen is that he is a more athletic Demar DeRozan and so if that mid range jumper becomes Demar level demar one of the greatest mid range jumpers ever, maybe that will change his offensive trajectory in a major way. The other part to this is we can talk about Darren Peterson.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure, yeah, we should.

[Esperaheny]

He struggled physically.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

I thought some of the like coming off of screens, even defensively, trying to maneuver around screens, you could see that like yes he looked good when the shots were falling but when there was a little bit of physicality, when there was a little bit of pushback, I thought he struggled.

[Dave DeFore]

He's good with his, at using his offarm, you know, like the, the whole thing that every NBA player gets away with. He's good at that day one. Right. Like so he's very good at playing.

[Esperaheny]

His pacing is still great too.

[Dave DeFore]

Very impressed with that. Again I said this after I watched him in the Utah Summer League stuff and even in this game last night, you know, I, I like the fact that he's playing his game and you play around him. Yeah. And I think what this is an interesting thing they're going to have to contend with with Keonte George, Larry Markkanen. I mean if Larry Markin is more of a play finisher around Keonte and Darren, like that's kind of interesting.

[Esperaheny]

I think he's, I think he's perfect as a play finisher. Like if you look at all of the play types for the Utah Jazz last year specific especially when it comes to Larry Markkanen, it's like he is in the 85th percentile in cuts. He's in the 85th percentile off of screens and with Jaron with Jared facing

[Dave DeFore]

the floor out and, and the one issue I've got with Darren Peterson right now is I don't know if I believe in the pull up that he's got his, his motion is fine but his release is bad and so like he releases maybe a little bit early and he winds up front rim a lot. Now this is stuff that'll get cleaned up. I like again it's early. This is summer league but you know, kind of over.

[Esperaheny]

But this is the, this is the stuff we. Yeah like you watch these players because honestly I think we both expect one, the Utah Jazz to take a leap next season to the Washington Wizards to take a leap next season. So you're trying to piece the puzzle pieces together. What does AJ DebonSA look like with that group? What does Darren Peterson look like with that group? You get some sort of idea of I will Also say it's very cool that the entire Washington Wizards group was there watching their team. Happens for everybody.

[Dave DeFore]

But it was thing. The coolest thing to me was that Scotty Barnes was there for the Sacramento Kings game.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. For Jonathan Mobo.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. I love that. Like, again, like, we're best friends.

[Esperaheny]

Like, they're. That's their guy.

[Dave DeFore]

But also, I don't know. I like that the league is a little nice. Like, I know people don't like it. Like, oh, these guys are too buddy, buddy. I think they're still competitive, but I don't mind it being just like, oh, there's more nice guys.

[Esperaheny]

Hey, speaking of competitive, like Darren Peterson and A.J. deona. That's competitive.

[Dave DeFore]

They were going at each other. This was actually something that. That I thought was really interesting. They wanted to go at each other. Yes. Debun especially, like, he had that dunk and he flexed, right. And he looks at Darren Peterson right after he does that. I. I like that. I feel like if Darren Peterson has. If he can have as much dog as it seems like AJ Devonsa has, Darren Peterson is going to be like an all NBA guy. But DebonSA, day one, that dude has got dog all in him. Like, he is just. He's trying to be the best player on the court. Like, you saw that tonight. I thought. I thought he was really, really aggressive, which is great. I mean, it's summer league. Darius Acuff took 20 shots.

[Esperaheny]

He did 19 points on 20 shots.

[Dave DeFore]

Take short shots, keep shooting, to shoot. So, like, I like that. Right? Like, I don't want to. I don't want to watch a guy go one for six. I'd rather you go six for 20.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Like Darius Acuff. You know, I think that that's a better, better way to go quickly. Like, let's just kind of fire through. Like, was Debons. Like, was that the most interested guy you saw today? No, the best guy you saw.

[Esperaheny]

I mean, those. Those guys were obviously the headliners, but the guy that absolutely blew me away was Mraz Johnson.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Dallas Mavericks big man. He is a five.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he's bigger. He's bigger than I thought.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I agree. And we were talking about it earlier, but, like, 6 foot 9 with a 75 wingspan with that physical toolkit you have.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, Dwight Howard.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

And he's wide also. Like, he has the shoulders to be able to defend. He's very versatile. He can switch a bunch, too. Uses his athleticism well. Like, already a very, very good rim runner. We were talking earlier about How. How bigs in the summer league especially set terrible screens. Awful. Morez Johnson does not set bad screens. Like, he's. He understands timing, he understands pace. I think he was awesome. And I. I'm again to like team building. I'm very excited to see how him and Cooper Flag played.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Oh, that's. I mean, yeah, that might be a perfect pairing.

[Esperaheny]

Like their defensive floor, insane.

[Dave DeFore]

Maybe very, very high for a young team, which is crazy because, I mean, you look at the spurs right in the Thunder. These are two young teams with a super high defensive floor. Yeah. How often does that happen? Just doesn't happen that much. So, you know, it's impressive when these guys can come in.

[Esperaheny]

Also, a quick note that I completely forgot on The Mavericks, Sergio DeLara. Kind of an interesting player, kind of my type. Like, he's a big forward, can make plays. Good passer, good decision. Make sure he comes from Europe, but like, yeah, he's interesting. I would just watch out for something.

[Dave DeFore]

I think the Mavs are kind of interesting next season, and I. I think that they still have. They maybe have a Kyrie decision to make.

[Esperaheny]

Did you see Dusty May's quote about Kyrie?

[Dave DeFore]

I didn't.

[Esperaheny]

He said, we watched some practice recently and it was like Picasso painting of painting.

[Dave DeFore]

I agree. Look, look, man, there are these guys who aesthetically are so pleasing to watch play basketball. Like, Michael Jordan was like this. Kobe was like this. And Kyrie, he's like that. Kyrie, honestly, he might be the most aesthetic, aesthetically pleasing basketball player I've ever watched. Everything he does is beautiful. His jumper is beautiful.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

The way he finishes around the basketball.

[Esperaheny]

I mean, that's why he comes back a diehard fan.

[Dave DeFore]

I know if he comes back and is good right away, man, the Mavs are fun. They're real fun. Yeah. Especially, you know, like, with these young guys that they've. Absolutely. We'll see what they do.

[Esperaheny]

What about you? Is there anybody else that.

[Dave DeFore]

That kind of jumped up in a bad way? No, no. Fletcher. Lawyer. All right. I. I think. I hope I'm saying his name right.

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Lawyer.

[Dave DeFore]

L O Y E r his exhibit 10 contract. Guy with the Clippers. Hooper. He's a Hooper. He's a shooter.

[Esperaheny]

We were just watching it while eating dinner.

[Leesa Mattress Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

He said he just kept saying Luke Canard.

[Dave DeFore]

Like he looked like Luke Canard. He's got the shooting sleeve. He's got the whole thing going on. Yeah. Got the. Got the hairline right. He's doing that whole thing. I mean, look, he looks like the.

[Esperaheny]

The only thing is he doesn't shoot with his left hand, right? He's a right hand, but he looks

[Dave DeFore]

like a guy that the the Clippers just said, hey, you're in our business office. We need an extra body. And he can hoop. He can really shoot. I mean, he hit that transition pull up three and I almost spilled my Spanish rice. I mean, it was that good. Guys, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about Kawhi Leonard and what the hell is happening with the Raptors and Clippers.

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[Dave DeFore]

So today we were interviewing Alan Graves at Raptors practice.

[Esperaheny]

As you saw.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes. When the news broke that wasn't really news. It we found out via press release that the Raptors would be responsible for any penalties that are handed to Kawhi Leonard.

[Esperaheny]

Which is the trade if they were to push through. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And which makes sense. Like if, if Kawhi is going to get suspended, let's say 10 games, 20 games, whatever it is. Okay. Well, yeah, he's going to get suspended

[Esperaheny]

on the team that he's on the team he's on. But it doesn't make sense for maybe from a. They will be the ones being punished.

[Dave DeFore]

Right. Like my. And we've, you know, obviously Eric Karine wrote a great story on this. He had a lot of like inside info. If you haven't read that, go to the Athletic and read Eric Karine's story and we're going to try to get him on the pod at some point the next week to talk talk this stuff through. But even reading this report is still a little bit confusing. Like who doesn't know?

[Esperaheny]

So look like how do you get

[Dave DeFore]

this far in the process? And the league has not told anyone what what is happening between these two teams. It's not like the NBA didn't know that the Clippers were trying to trade

[Esperaheny]

Kawhi to the Raptors or it's not like they didn't know that this was something they would have to eventually address like whether whether Kawhi was going to stay with the Clippers and get extended, which is another point of contact. Like if the Clippers wanted to just extend Kawhi this summer the, the NBA still would have to jump in and say, hey, before you make that extension, just letting you know, we have to figure out what's happening here with this deal. So they, they, they did not have the foresight, I think, 10 months ago when this investigation launched. And when you look at what they said and what the reporting has been is like the NBA has informed the Toronto Raptors that, hey, by the way, if you want to push this deal through, just letting you know, you will be responsible for the penalties that have happened. And also, there's no, there's no reporting on how harsh the penalties are. You keep saying it's not going to be that crazy.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't think it will be because I, I mean, just this is how this league has operated. Yeah. You know, like impunity, essentially for a lot of things that I think are just basically like breaking rules. Right. Like, they don't call traveling. Why would I expect them to? You know what I mean? So to punish Kawhi for this, this

[Esperaheny]

is, I agree with show job for 20 million.

[Dave DeFore]

I agree it's different. And like, listen, I think that if you're listening to this show, you probably know Pablo Torre finds out great podcast over at the Athletic. You know, they've reported on this stuff for 10 months. And it certainly feels like there's a lot of smoking guns laying around. But I, I mean, we were talking to people today around summer league and we have run the gamut, the gamut from January to now where we were hearing around the trade deadline. Oh, man, Lawrence Frank, he's going to be like banned for life. Yeah. To. During the finals. You know, I'm talking to people and by that point, we haven't heard anything. There's no update whatsoever. And people are saying, oh, well, nothing's going to happen. And then we, we expected to hear something between the finals in the draft. We still have heard. This is the, this is a longer investigation than like Watergate. It's 10 months long.

[Esperaheny]

Look, I mean, if you've ever been in a legal situation, you know how long it takes for lawyers to. Billable hours.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, especially the NBA. Right. Like the NBA, they are going to make sure before they do anything.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

That they've got all those T's crossed and those eyes dotted, which is why I expect nothing to happen. And so it does seem like maybe it's a little bit much ado about nothing. But I think where do we go here from here?

[Esperaheny]

Look, I will say I think there is part to your point. It is a formality Like I think the NBA was saying, and maybe they said it too late.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Sure.

[Esperaheny]

That, hey, before this trade goes through, we just want to make it very clear that if the Raptors were to accept this trade right now and make it official, they are the ones that deal with the punishment. And honestly, I, I agree from the Raptors perspective, saying we are not going to do that. We'll wait until.

[Dave DeFore]

I, I don't even know what that means, because it does mean that they have to give up a pick. Like, how does that make any sense that the Raptors would have to give a pick?

[Esperaheny]

Especially when the Raptors were the victims of this thing in 2019.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, we don't need to do that.

[Esperaheny]

Maybe not.

[Dave DeFore]

There's. He was leaving anyway.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, there was just no world where he wanted to be there.

[Esperaheny]

There were reports and shout out to Doug Smith of the Toronto Star that the Raptors were basically offered a similar thing from Uncle Dennis, which is no show jobs, ownership, private jets, all that type of stuff. And the Raptors went to the NBA and said, hey, we are not doing this. The Clippers signed. Correct.

[Dave DeFore]

And also when they, when the extension news broke here the last couple days, no mention of Uncle Dennis.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. New representative.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right. See, and to me, look, I don't want to do the tinfoil hat thing on this show. I've, I've done that enough today over this Clipper stuff. But trading him back to Toronto, he's going to sign an extension. No, Uncle Dennis, he's got an agent. Like, it just doesn't feel like a little bit of reparation in here.

[Esperaheny]

It does feel a little bit like that, but this statement makes me feel like that's not the case anymore. My, My tinfoil hat was on until today.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

And then when you see something like this, you say, okay, wait, wait a minute, then what's, where's the tinfoil hat conspiracy theory going? Ultimately, I think nothing will happen. Right. I think if anything, if there is a, a suspension for Kawhi or a fine for the Clippers or something like that, maybe the, the, the deal itself is renegotiated. Maybe the Raptors give up less picks. Maybe there's a different player, maybe something else. But ultimately this trade is going to go through. Ultimately, Kawhi Leonard will be a Raptor. Ultimately, Brandon Ingram will be a La Cleaver.

[Leesa Mattress Advertiser]

It's just.

[Esperaheny]

How does that look?

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know. It's going to be interesting.

[Esperaheny]

It's genuinely one of the most unprecedented things in the end.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, the Entire thing is very weird. I mean, again, and these investigations certainly take a long time. This one is. Feels like it's taking.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

A very long time. I know. Look, Pablo Torre did a really great job. Him and his staff, they worked this, this up. Right. And they've continued to break news on this and add to it, I imagine that this law firm has easier access and more access to stuff than Pablo. Pablo has to go out for sure. Yeah. So my thing is, did it take Pablo 10 months to put it. Put that first pod together? I don't know. I think it did take him a while. Like we talked about it some.

[Esperaheny]

Well, you know, these lawyers, they have other.

[Dave DeFore]

They have to. Right.

[Google Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

They're stuck. I mean, there's stuff. But I, I'm still on the camp that I just don't expect there to be any sort of tangible, like real punishment. I mean, why.

[Esperaheny]

What would you consider as real punishment?

[Dave DeFore]

How about a first round pick? Clippers lose a first or, or multiple first. Maybe they lose two drafts in a row and Kawhi gets some kind of

[Esperaheny]

like 25 games or 50.

[Dave DeFore]

50 feels like a lot, but 25 is kind of like when you look at Paul George last year, the PD thing, 25 feels, feels okay. I don't know. But to me also, like there's a thing here with the players association and I feel like anything that happens, they're going to appeal.

[Esperaheny]

That's why I think the chance of Kawhi's contract getting voided is so slim because of the Players Association. It would open a can of worms because do you not understand how many sponsorship dollars other stars are getting? So then now it's kind of one of those things where if one person gets told on, the other person gets told on, the other person gets told on. It opens something that I don't think the NBA wants to deal with moving forward.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, I don't think so. I mean, I don't think that they want to deal with this. Yeah. And I think that that's part of the.

[Shannon Maldonado]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I think that's part of the reason why we're kind of in the position that we're in. That being said, like, probably now that we, we've gone so in depth on it, we'll find out overnight the results or something. But I, I just don't. I don't know. I wonder when we're gonna know what's happening with the Clippers and, and this investigation. I, I'm very, very curious to see when we're gonna find something out. Yeah. Any. Anything else before we get out of here for the night?

[Esperaheny]

No, I, I think we've covered it. What a first day. Summer league.

[Dave DeFore]

Summer league is the best. If you guys, if you're listening or if you're watching on YouTube and you've never been to summer league, I cannot recommend it enough. Like being able to bounce back and forth between two gyms while there's two games going on with, I don't know, maybe you can name eight out of 60 players. Like, that's fun. It's really fun. And you see some of the craziest basketball jerseys you've ever seen in your life.

[Leesa Mattress Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Juan Toscano Anderson, Golden State warriors jersey. I saw a Nick Stauskis jersey today. We saw a de' Aaron Fox jersey turned into a Darius Acuff jersey.

[Dave DeFore]

Great.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, those are the best.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Esperaheny]

Pistol Pete jersey. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

If you're a fan and not like a person that wants to sit in a corporate box, summer league is the best. Definitely go and check it out if you haven't before. All right, that's going to do it for us. Breast bear Henny. I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe, subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a, like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[Shannon Maldonado]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] creditcard Oregon parks make an Oregon summer.

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