Embiid cooks Celtics + Draft Lottery Reform

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – April 29, 2026

Episode: Embiid cooks Celtics + Draft Lottery Reform

Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esfandiar (“S”) Baraheni, with guest Lauren Williams (Atlanta Journal Constitution)

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Episode Overview

This episode breaks down three major NBA storylines:

• Joel Embiid’s outstanding performance lifting the Sixers over the Celtics.
• The Spurs’ dominant close-out of the Blazers.
• In-depth reform proposals for the NBA Draft Lottery and the implications for tanking. Plus, guest Lauren Williams joins to analyze the Knicks’ blowout win over the Hawks and Atlanta’s challenges going forward.

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1. Joel Embiid Dominates Boston, Sixers Stay Alive

[01:42+]

Key Discussion Points

• Embiid’s Resurgence: After skepticism about his health post-appendectomy, Joel Embiid delivered a pivotal 33 points, 8 assists, and 4 rebounds just 19 days after surgery, leading the Sixers to a 113–97 win.
• Supporting Cast: Paul George contributed 4 threes in the second half; Quinten Grimes also knocked down 4 threes, fueling the Sixers’ decisive second-half run.
• Tactical Adjustments: Philadelphia’s defense showed different looks, with Embiid being more aggressive in pick-and-roll defense.
• Boston’s Struggles: Celtics shot a dismal 28% from three and saw a long-standing playoff flaw emerge—blowing leads and lapsing into bad habits.
• Derrick White’s Woes: White’s shooting slump (7-of-33 from three in the series) looms large, threatening the Celtics’ ceiling.

Notable Quotes

• Dave DuFour [02:29]:
  “Mia culpa on that. Joel Embiid was awesome last night. He put up a ridiculous stat line ... for a guy who's 19 days removed from an appendectomy.”
• S [03:33]:
  “It just depends on what version of Joel you’re getting ... when you get this version, of course the Sixers are a different beast.”
• Dave DuFour [05:08]:
  “The Curse of the Celtics is that you’re just going to have these games that feel like they've been playing with their food. They had a lead in this game. They don't. They shot 28% from three.”
• S [06:07]:
  “Derrick White ... he's so important to what they want to do defensively, but at this point, he's just this like oversized Alex Caruso for them. He can't, he can't shoot.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:29] – Embiid’s performance and Sixers’ victory
• [03:33] – Defensive improvements and Embiid’s mid-post dominance
• [04:27] – Sixers’ winning recipe with Embiid as the focus
• [05:08] – Celtics fall into familiar playoff pitfalls
• [06:07] – Derrick White’s struggles and impact on Boston’s rotation

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2. Spurs Close Out Blazers: What’s Next for Portland?

[09:49+]

Key Discussion Points

• Spurs’ Dominance: San Antonio advances, winning the series 4–1. Panelists note the outcome was never in doubt, even suggesting a sweep if not for Wembanyama’s brief absence.
• Spurs’ Playoff Maturity: The group lauds the resilience and completeness of the Spurs’ rotation, especially Fox, Castle, and Harper’s contributions.
• Conference Finals Preview: Hosts anticipate a potential OKC–San Antonio showdown, predicting a battle between two of the best defenses in the NBA.
• Portland’s Uncertain Future:
  • Young Core: Positives include Deni Avdija’s value contract and Don MacKlingan’s emergence as a playoff-ready stretch center.
  • Coach Thiago Splitter: Debate over whether Splitter did enough as interim head coach to secure a future role.
  • Key Offseason Questions: What becomes of Scoot Henderson and Shaedon Sharpe—especially as Lillard is set to return? Is there a potential shake-up (including Drew Holiday’s future and possible trades)?

Notable Quotes

• S [10:22]:
  “The Spurs are just obviously a better team than the Blazers. They've got better players, they got more talent.”
• Dave DuFour [12:48]:
  “I’m curious to see what they do as far as a head coach goes. I'm not sure if Thiago Splitter did enough in this series to save his job necessarily.”
• S [13:49]:
  “They've shifted to Avdija and Kamara and Klingan and this defensive foundation. But they lack the shot creation ... What does that look like when Dame comes into the fold?”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [09:49] – Spurs finish off the Blazers
• [10:32] – Spurs’ depth and playoff makeup
• [11:21] – Conference Finals anticipation
• [12:20] – Blazers’ player development, coaching questions, and off-season outlook

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3. NBA Draft Lottery Reform: New Proposals, Familiar Problems

[14:54+]

Key Discussion Points

• Sam Amick’s Report: The NBA is floating a new draft lottery system increasing the lottery pool to 16 teams (from 14), and introducing a “relegation zone” where bottom-three teams get less lottery odds than mid-tier lottery teams.
• No Back-to-Back Top Picks: Under the proposed rule, teams cannot get consecutive top-five picks.
• Hosts’ Criticisms:
  • The reform may counteract the draft’s purpose—helping bad teams reload with talent.
  • Increasing the number of lottery teams could further incentivize tanking.
  • Panel suggests reducing—not expanding—the lottery and even floats ideas like the “wheel” or random draws for all teams.
  • Both hosts see the proposal as convoluted and likely to be gamed by creative front offices.

Notable Quotes

• Dave DuFour [15:34]:
  “Float it out there. Let us trample all over it. Let us tell you all of the problems with it and then go back to the drawing board. That’s smart.”
• S [16:16]:
  “Generally, I think this is completely counterintuitive to the goals of the NBA draft ... The point is to distribute talent ... to provide good young talent to bad teams so that they can one day hope to be good.”
• Dave DuFour [19:05]:
  “If you’re gonna incentivize losing, teams are gonna find a way to lose to the parameters that you’ve set.”
• S [19:44]:
  “The number one suggestion to me that I love is make it so that less teams, fewer teams believe they have a chance ... Instead of 14 lottery teams, make it 8, make it 4, I don’t care.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [14:54] – Introduction to Sam Amick’s report
• [15:34] – Skepticism over new system
• [16:16] – Purpose of the draft and system flaws
• [19:44] – Alternative ideas and broader implications

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4. Knicks Dominate, Hawks Falter: Lauren Williams’ Analysis

[22:54+]

Key Discussion Points

• Knicks Blow Out Hawks (126–97): The Hawks looked physically and mentally absent in Game 5, outclassed at both ends of the cour.
• Knicks’ Playoff Maturity:
  • Experience, depth, and timely contributions from OG Anunoby and Josh Hart.
  • New York’s ability to make “X-factor” adjustments and keep Atlanta off-balance.
• Hawks’ Growing Pains:
  • Jalen Johnson’s postseason struggles—timid playmaking, defensive lapses, and a lack of regular-season aggression under playoff pressure.
  • Noticeable difference in transition, with Knicks shutting down Atlanta’s fast breaks and Jalen overthinking in real time.
  • The team’s offense grinds down when McCollum is neutralized and bench flames out (notably Kaminga).

Notable Quotes

• Lauren Williams [23:58]:
  “The Hawks were not the better team, I think. I think that's the simple way to put it, but that's valid.”
• Lauren Williams [26:23]:
  “In the playoffs, those adjustments have to be so much faster than ... in the regular season.”
• Lauren Williams [29:31]:
  “It’s that difference between knowing what needs to be done and actually being able to execute it and execute it well. ... The Knicks are just a much more talented team right now.”
• Lauren Williams [31:58]:
  “I think the big thing for [Atlanta] is getting out and running. ... Being the guys that set the tone and being the bullies.”
• Lauren Williams [34:20]:
  “I'm feeling a little less confident about Hawks in seven ... This is a team that you can never count out, though.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [22:54] – Knicks take Game 5 in a runaway
• [23:58] – New York's playoff experience vs. Atlanta’s youth
• [26:23] – Jalen Johnson’s learning curve in the postseason
• [29:31] – Knicks’ offensive flexibility, key matchups
• [31:58] – What Hawks need to force Game 7
• [34:20] – Roundtable predictions: Is Game 7 on the table?

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Embiid’s resilience:
  “You can’t question this guy’s heart and his ability to try and get on the floor no matter what.”
  (S, [08:30])

• On Celtics’ playoff bugaboo:
  “Hallmark Celtics playoff loss: poor shooting. Have a lead, blow it, get into some of the bad habits that you know, we've been talking about for years.”
  (Dave DuFour, [05:08])

• Joking on Splitter’s job security:
  “Listen, he didn’t get arrested by the FBI this season.”
  (Dave DuFour, [13:11])

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Episode Structure & Flow

• Opening: Recap of Sixers–Celtics thriller (Embiid’s heroics).
• Mid-Show: Spurs/Blazers series wrap, Blazers’ big questions, NBA Draft reform deep-dive and debate.
• Second Half: Guest Lauren Williams shares on-the-ground insights post-Knicks/Hawks, focusing on player development and what Atlanta needs to make the next leap.
• Conclusion: Group predictions and broader NBA reflections.

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For Listeners Who Missed It:

• Hear how Embiid defied all doubts—and why Boston is suddenly on edge.
• Discover which young players and coaching decisions in Portland could shape an entire off-season.
• Get clued in to why proposed changes to the NBA draft may backfire—and what fixes insiders recommend.
• Dive deep with Lauren Williams on why the Knicks look dangerous, and what the Hawks’ playoff lessons could mean long-term.

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Episode Highlight:

“I think there is a level of resilience to what the [Spurs] did. ... We're three weeks away from OKC vs. San Antonio. I'm guaranteeing it. ... It's going to be cinema.”
– S, [10:32]

Predictions:

• Most hosts expect the Celtics and Knicks will eventually advance, but don’t rule out some Game 7 chaos.

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Additional Resources

• Follow Lauren Williams' Hawks coverage at the Atlanta Journal Constitution (AJC).
• Check out The Athletic for Sam Amick’s full draft reform report.
• For ongoing game recaps and analysis, subscribe to The Athletic NBA Daily.

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(End of Summary)

Transcript

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[Dave Defora]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for April 29, 2026. I'm Dave Defora here with Esperaheny. Coming up, the spurs are moving on. The Celtics blue blew a home game. We're going to talk about that. And Lauren Williams from the Atlanta Journal Constitution is here to talk about the Hawks getting blown out by the Knicks. Good morning everybody. What is up? S?

[Esperaheny]

Hello, hello beautiful world. How is it going?

[Dave Defora]

Are you an Apple computer now?

[Esperaheny]

I'm trying, I'm trying to do something different, you know, every time.

[Dave Defora]

We'll workshop that and come back maybe with something, with something else.

[Esperaheny]

Maybe get us some recommendations, you know, YouTube comments give us.

[Dave Defora]

Speaking of workshop, I should have workshopped my Joel Embiid take from the other night because I said listen, if this, if the Sixers have any chance of winning another game in this series, it's, it's probably not going to be with Joel Embiid. Mia Copa on that Joel Embiid was awesome last night. He put up a ridiculous stat line for a guy who's 19 days removed from an appendectomy. 33 points, eight assists, four rebounds, which, you know, hey, like, we wish those numbers were higher. But s. Listen, the. The Sixers win113.97. They have this excellent third quarter and fourth quarter run behind Embiid and the three point shooting. This is, this is the Sixers team that we, we talked about when they were healthy this year and why they might be scary if they stuck into the playoffs. And this is pre appendectomy, right?

[Men's Wearhouse Announcer]

Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

And all of a sudden, look, game to game, he looked, he looked much better in the second game, and so did that.

[Esperaheny]

It just depends on what version of Joel you're getting. Because I thought even though he's still going to get targeted defensively, I thought he was better defensively in this game. They were showing him at the level of screens, pick a rolls instead of drop. And so it was forcing him to be a little bit more aggressive defensively. He. He had to pick up Jaylen Brown a few times. So I think ultimately when you get this version of Joel, of course the Sixers are a different beast. And also, for what it's worth, Paul George had a really good game. I thought his shot making and especially the three point shooting. He knocked down four threes was massive to their second half as well. You. You get that. Plus you get an electric Quinton Grimes game who knocked down four threes in the second half. The. The recipe for the Sixers is there. But when their main piece in Joel Embiid plays the way he does, like you saw in that fourth quarter, it was mid post touch for Joel Embiid.

[Dave Defora]

Kid not guard him.

[Esperaheny]

K couldn't guard him at all. Absolutely. And like when you have that version, who can get into the mid post, settle into those fadeaway jump shots, now the help is coming. Now it's a kick out to Maxi or Grimes or Paul George. And that's the Sixers version. That's the Sixers way to win this series. I mean, I don't, I don't think they will, but this is the version that we expected them to be. It's just, you're not going to get that every night, you know, and that's, that's the curse of the Philadelphia 76ers for the next couple of seasons, is that you have this incredible quality and talent and Joel Embiid, but you know that on any given night, it might not show up.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah. And the Curse of the Celtics is that you're just going to have these games that feel like they've been playing with their food. They had a lead in this game. They don't. They shot 28% from three. Again, Hallmark Celtics playoff loss, poor shooting. Have a lead, blow it, get into some of the bad habits that you know, we've been talking about for years. This is where the Tatum, the Tatum comeback has just exacerbated this because when things aren't, when, when they're not playing that Celtics basketball, they, that we've talked about all season, now there's two guys disrupting it, not just Jaylen Brown. Now Tatum's back out there messing it up too. And I think it, it just, it again, it's this snowball effect for them. Three balls not fallen. We got to do something different. And you know, we just see them not kind of trusting their process.

[Esperaheny]

Again, I will say the one guy I'm looking at here for the Celtics is Derek White because he's had such

[Dave Defora]

an awful shooting season. Yeah, it's.

[Esperaheny]

And it's bled into this postseason. He's 7 of 33 from 3 to start this series. That's 21.2%. Like he's so important to what they want to do defensively, but at this point he's just this like oversized Alex Caruso for them. He can't, he can't shoot. And so his offensive utility is question

[Dave Defora]

and he's not getting the volume up either. This is the other thing is like at his best in the last couple years, he was shooting eight nine threes a game. I mean, this was you, a guy you had to guard because the shots,

[Esperaheny]

that's what happens when the misses exactly right. The confidence goes and you're second guessing yourself and you're attacking a closeout or attacking an opening that might not be there.

[Dave Defora]

And now all of a sudden the court has shrunk for you on the offensive end and you're already playing a non shooter in Keda at the center. So it just, it's not quite working the same way. Teams aren't respecting Derrick White's jumper like they, like they were. I mean, you know, just watching him brick a wide open corner three in this game really jumped out to me and I, I've watched him shoot a lot of bricks this year, but that one is a Derek. That's a Derek White corner three that he hits 90% of the time.

[Esperaheny]

It's something that they need for him to like make if they want to make it to the Finals. They're not beating the Knicks, in my opinion. If Derrick White is shooting this way, it just. I think he's so important. And on the other side, you're getting really quality minutes from Peyton Pritchard. So maybe that's the adjustment for them, is more Pritchard and less Derrick White. But then the defensive drop off. This is the decision that Joe Missoula has to make moving forward. I think the Celtics will be okay in the series, for what it's worth. I think they'll take care of business.

[Dave Defora]

I think they'll win. Listen, this is. This is a textbook Celtics Sixers series, if you ask me. I agree. The Celtics keep losing these games. They ought to win, or, you know, on paper, at least they ought to win. And maybe they blow them out in game six in Philly. Right? Like, they win by 20. It's. It's got a little bit of a rhythm and a rhyme to it. Quite, quite a bit.

[Lauren Williams]

I.

[Dave Defora]

Look, I'm with you here. I think that Boston. What we're seeing right now is, you know, some of the stuff that maybe we were concerned about with them coming into the playoffs. What does it look like when the three doesn't fall? I mean, not a lot of teams are going to win shooting 28% from three anyway. But especially the Celtics, they just. They just don't have it.

[Esperaheny]

I agree. And by the way, like, I just. Going back to the Sixers, what an incredible achievement for Joel Embiid to come back 18. 18 days or whatever it is after the appendectomy. He said post game, he's like, I just wanted to make sure that I could play and not regret being, you know, out for the playoffs. You think of all the weird injuries that he's had in his career. I know there's this connotation that Joel is always hurt and is lazy and whatever, whatever. But, man, you can't question this guy's heart and his ability to try and get on the floor no matter what.

[Dave Defora]

So I don't know if anyone can rel to human beings that are that large.

[Esperaheny]

Absolutely.

[Dave Defora]

Period. So, you know, and. And a lot of the stuff that's happened with him, freak stuff. You know, he gets his face broken, his. His thumb gets caught in a jersey. You know, it's. It's random stuff like this, an appendectomy. It's a little bit. You know, it's. It's almost cursed if it was in a book.

[Esperaheny]

So I said, this is a curse. It's. It really is, man. It's like, it's like Beauty and the Beast. You don't know at one point which version you're gonna get here, but you

[Dave Defora]

give them any chance to push or. Excuse me.

[Esperaheny]

I do think. I, I think, look, if we get another version here where Embiid is incredible, maybe he. Edgecomb has a game in Philly. I absolutely think they could push the seven.

[Lauren Williams]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Why not?

[Dave Defora]

We will not be getting seven in the Spurs Blazer series because the spurs wrapped things up 114 to 95. This one was done in five games. Honestly.

[Esperaheny]

This one was also done in five minutes.

[Dave Defora]

It was done in five minutes. But this would have been a sweep if Wimy doesn't. Doesn't get knocked out by the court in, in game two. And, and it frankly still should have been a sweep and had Dear and Fox and Steph Castle not. Not fumbled the, the bag a little bit down the stretch of that game is a sweep.

[Esperaheny]

They.

[Dave Defora]

The spurs are just obviously a better team than the Blazers. They've got better players, they got more talent. Is there anything you learned about the spurs in this series?

[Esperaheny]

I do think there is a level of resilience to what they did. I, I think you see a version of them when Fox is at his best and Castle is. Is doing his thing and Harper is coming off the bench like the, the. The complete package of what they are both defensively and offensively. We saw it against this Blazers team and the other aspect to this is I just can't wait for the conference finals because we are, we're. We are like three weeks away, a month away from OKC versus San Antonio. I'm guaranteeing it here. At this point in time, it's going to be OKC versus San Ant Antonio. And I, I can't wait because that's two of the best defenses in the NBA. They are elite. They're like made to face off against each other. It's going to be cinema. It's going to be one of the best series.

[Dave Defora]

Spurs have to go through a battle to get there. I mean, obviously I think that they will, but they're going to have to go through a battle.

[Esperaheny]

What's. What's the battle?

[Dave Defora]

Well, listen, you're expecting Denver to win, okay, Even if it's the Nuggets, right? Because I just don't know if. I mean, it's going to be hard for the Wolves, I guess. One.

[Esperaheny]

I guess. I guess my thing is I don't see the, the Wolves losing to the Nuggets, but. Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

[Dave Defora]

I don't know. It's tough because there's just not anyone to take advantage. And basically like Tyus Jones and Jonas Valentunas now can give you positive minutes. And I just. That's a game changer.

[Esperaheny]

All you need is one Julius Randall game. That's all they need.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah, that's it. I mean, listen, I'm, I'm, I'm. We'll see what happens on. In that series for the Blazers. You know, for, for me, I think that they've probably got more questions after this than answers. And because of just the stage where their team is, we got that amazing Scoot Henderson game.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

And then basically nothing.

[Esperaheny]

Nothing else. Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

I think Denny Abdia, especially when you look at his contract making like less than $13 million a year for the next two seasons. Yeah. That as your cornerstone piece is such a great start. Don McClingan really came along this season, I think, and we even saw. I, I think Don McLingan is going to be a decent playoff center. I think we saw some stuff especially because he can stretch the floor.

[Esperaheny]

And that combination of him and Rob Williams is really good too. Like that. That's a playoff rotation for your front court for sure.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah, we'll. We'll see if Robert Williams is. Is on the team next year. But I, I just think like the young guys that they've got. I think, you know, it. It's. They've got something there. I'm curious to see what they do as far as a head coach goes. I'm not sure if Thiago Splitter did enough in this series to. To save his job necessarily. You know, you've got a new ownership group and also he's an interim coach.

[Esperaheny]

Get as much money.

[Dave Defora]

I mean, he. Listen, he didn't get arrested by the FBI this season.

[Esperaheny]

That's true.

[Dave Defora]

So better than the last guy.

[Esperaheny]

Imagine going into a contract extension and they're like, we are actually going to offer you half as much money as.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah. I mean, well, that's the thing. I do think Tiago Splitter this season proved that he's an NBA coach.

[Esperaheny]

I think so.

[Dave Defora]

And if I was a team with a young roster, I think I would.

[Esperaheny]

At least you're taking a look at Thiago Splinter. Absolutely.

[Dave Defora]

I mean, I think that when you look at the way he coached the defense, especially their offense was fine, but the way he coached the defense. If I had a young team, I think that you could do a lot worse than Thiago Splitter.

[Esperaheny]

So on the Blazers front, there's two guys that I Have questions for moving forward. One of them you mentioned Scoot Henderson, who had a good game and then kind of tailed off. It's like, what is his role next season with Dame Lillard back two shaden Sharpe, like he completely fell out of the rotation for the Blazers and they already paid him. I mean, he's, he's kind of extended for them. What does that look like moving forward? Because he was a big cornerstone piece for this franchise. They've shifted to Abdia and Kamara and Klingon and this like defensive foundation. But they lack the shock creation. And so what does that look like when Dame comes to the fold? How do Damon Drew play together? Do they make a big.

[Dave Defora]

Do they play together?

[Esperaheny]

Do they play together? True. Because they could trade Drew Holiday as well. Do they make a big splash? Like they have the, the contracts, they have the Bucks picks. There is a world in which they maybe get spicy and try to add someone this summer. But it's just. I'm curious to see what the Blazers do. I feel like it's a very important off season for them.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah. Before we go to the break s we. We're getting some, some news out of the Athletic.

[Esperaheny]

Yes.

[Dave Defora]

About draft reform and tank. Can you lay out to me this Sam Amick report because that's correct. Yeah, listen, I have read draft proposals tanking reform.

[Esperaheny]

40 of them for 15 years.

[Dave Defora]

I feel like I know about the wheel. I've just said just throw every team in the lottery and just say, who cares? Maybe you set up the parameters where there's rules. You can't draft top five two years in a row. I don't know. But there's a new convoluted system that apparently is being floated out there. Smart move by the NBA, by the way, to float this stuff out ahead

[Esperaheny]

of voting on it playoffs.

[Dave Defora]

Float it out there. Let, let us trample all over it. Let us tell you all of the problems with it and then go back to the drawing board. Yeah, that's smart.

[Esperaheny]

I'm. I'm ready to trample. Yeah. Shout out to our buddy Sam here.

[Men's Wearhouse Announcer]

He.

[Esperaheny]

He broke down and reported what the prop is for the NBA draft lottery reform, if you will. So Basically instead of 14 teams, it'll be 16 teams, including the final two, I guess eight seeds in the playoffs. They will also have an opportunity to jump in the lottery. Those 16 teams will be divided into three categories. Now, the interesting part is that the. This reform suggests a relegation zone. So if you have a bottom three record in the NBA next season, you actually get less Odds than if you are in the middle zone. So, like.

[Dave Defora]

So there's a Goldilocks zone. There's basically where you want to place your tank. Yeah. It's an ideal parking spot. It's a shaded parking spot where when the sun moves, you're still in the shade, is what it is. Nice big oak tree there.

[Esperaheny]

If you guys ever watch the Incredibles, there's a scene where the really fast kid is racing and the dad is telling him to slow down because he's going too fast. He obviously has superpowers.

[Men's Wearhouse Announcer]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. That's kind of what it is for the reform, where it's like, hey, let's relax here for a little bit. Also, a part of this reform is a team can't get consecutive top five picks, which I actually like that part.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah, I don't think that.

[Esperaheny]

I think that's cool. But that's. That's the general format here also.

[Dave Defora]

Maybe not top five, by the way. I would say top three. I. I'm okay with five. Feels a bit. Bit much. I mean, but can I.

[Esperaheny]

Can I just say, generally, I think this is completely counterintuitive to the goals of the NBA draft. Dave, what is the point of the NBA draft?

[Dave Defora]

Can you.

[Esperaheny]

Can you answer.

[Dave Defora]

To distribute talent.

[Esperaheny]

Yes.

[Dave Defora]

Throughout the league, but especially to provide good young talent to bad teams so that they can one day hope to be good.

[Esperaheny]

Hopefully be good. Yes. That's why. That's why if you look at, the Detroit Pistons got Cade Cunningham, the Minnesota Timberwolves, they got Anthony Edwards, the San Antonio spurs, they got Victor Wembanyama. What do all of those teams have in common? Pretty good teams. Right. Not going to lie to you. So I just think there is a. I think we're just overthinking this entire thing when it comes to the draft. Yes. This draft class is incredible. And so there was some more gross, outrageous, irresponsible tanking that we probably saw through March and April that you and I had to endure. But at the same time, this is the point. The Brooklyn Nets don't have any other way of getting a Cooper flag or whoever. Next comes AJ DeBont or whatever have you. If it isn't through the draft, the Sacramento Kings don't have a way to attract that level of talent without the NBA draft.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah. And especially because the new CBA has made it easier for teams to retain their free agents, which theoretically is a good thing. Because why wouldn't you rather have your fans able to root for players in your laundry instead of just your laundry? I Mean, I think that, that we all kind of agree that that's a good thing, but now it's set up so that your small markets, they're not going to have a shot at talent or at least not a surefire shot at talent.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, it's not guaranteed.

[Dave Defora]

And again, I hate tanking. I just think that if you're gonna, if you're gonna incentivize losing, teams are gonna find a way to lose to the parameters that you've set. And the jockeying is then going to be. We'll have a last minute race.

[Esperaheny]

We'll find the loopholes to this as well.

[Dave Defora]

No, no, we'll have a last minute push at the end of the season where instead of the utah jazz sitting 90% of their payroll, they take those guys off the injured list and they're going to go full court press for 48 minutes and try to win all the basketball game. Right. Like this is just. We're going to play a game, a tug of war.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

With the standings.

[Esperaheny]

Exactly.

[Dave Defora]

I don't know. Bad idea. I go back to the drawing board, guys.

[Esperaheny]

Go back. The number one suggestion to me that I love is make it so that less teams, fewer teams believe they have a chance. By increasing the amount of teams that think they have a chance at this, going from 14 to 16, you're actually incentivizing more teams to try and lose. You have to reduce that. Instead of 14 lottery teams, make it eight, make it four, I don't care.

[Dave Defora]

It's going to be a race to the bottom four and that's going to stink too.

[Esperaheny]

At some point it becomes impossible to get to the bottom four. You know, so that's, that's my idea. That's my pitch to the NBA again.

[Dave Defora]

How about throw every team in the lottery and say, hey, sometimes the Oklahoma City Thunder are going to get the number one draft pick.

[Esperaheny]

Do the wheel.

[Dave Defora]

Maybe. Maybe it's the wheel. I don't know. Anyway, guys, let us know your solution to the draft and tanking if you've got one. The NBA would love to hear it. Stick around. After we got Lauren Williams to talk about the Hawks,

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[Dave Defora]

Foreign. Hawks and Knicks were back at MSG and the Hawks stayed in Atlanta. Let's just be honest, they got blown out 126 to 97. Our good friend Lauren Williams from the Atlanta Journal Constitution is here. She's in New York. How are you?

[Lauren Williams]

I felt a lot better before game five. Yeah, I would like that time back if possible. There a way to get the climb back pretty brutal.

[Dave Defora]

I look again like it's sad that the entire team missed the flight to New York but you made it. What. What's your like what is there to take away from a game like this? This is one that it felt like the Knicks, you know, is a statement game for the Knicks. Obviously it's at home. The Hawks have. I mean they were playing Corey Kispert trying to find something right. Corey Kispert and Gabe Vincent were sharing the court. So. So it's just one of those nights. But like do you have any takeaways from. From the game?

[Lauren Williams]

I mean the Hawk, the, the Hawks were not the Better team, I think. I think that's the simple way to put it, but that's valid.

[Dave Defora]

Yes.

[Lauren Williams]

I honestly think the big thing is that you're just really seeing sort of the Knicks experience really shine through and just how they're able to get everyone engaged. I mean, even on the road in Game four, you know, even Game two, you see Ogn and Nobi get involved, you're seeing big plays from Josh Hart. And the Hawks just have not had sort of these X factors, if you will, that the mix have had. And I think that's a big thing in terms of just seeing the lack of experience that the Hawks have had. You know, I've been really, really impressed with Onyeko Kongwu. I know that, you know, that kind of gets overshadowed with him in the matchup with Kat, but he's been playing some really good basketball. You know, two games we saw some really good things from Jonathan Kaminga, and then, you know, three out of the five, we've seen a lot of not so good things from Jonathan Kaminga. But, yeah, I think the fact that the Knicks have completely adjusted and taken, you know, the ball away from CJ McCollum has taken pretty much all of the Hawks offense away, especially with Jalen Johnson not being as aggressive as we've been used to seeing him play in the regular season. And I think we're seeing sort of a young player start to figure out whether he is the guy or if he. He needs to take another step to. To get himself there.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I mean, you brought up Jalen just now, but I think for any Hawks fan, it's. He is the most intriguing piece of what you see here and moving forward. And so I think this. This playoff run, this playoff series was a lot about, like, how he's going to look in those moments. And I think the two things that jump out to me is just the defensive effort or. Or how the Knicks were trying to poke at him defensively in certain situations. And the second thing is he's obviously a very good playmaker, but those windows, those like, passes and transition, they're just not there now compared to in the regular season, when you can play a little bit faster, when the pace is there. What are your thoughts about, like, what Jalen Johnson can learn from this playoff series moving forward in his career?

[Lauren Williams]

Yeah, if I'm being completely honest, I remember saying to a few people before this series began that I just felt nervous about what Jalen Johnson was going to do in this series. I just watching him over the last couple of years, he's very much experienced first, and then you see him take the next step. And so I think this is kind of where we are right now. And I mean, even throughout the series, you've seen him make these sort of minor adjustments and tweaks, but in the playoffs, those adjustments have to be so much faster than they happen in the regular season. And as you mentioned, with some of those passes in transition, once the Knicks took away the transition game from the Hawks, I mean, you can't really see him operating as effectively as he did during the regular season. And so you bring up also his effort on defense, and I think he did have a lot more effort tonight. You see him, you know, really kind of going up against Ochiana Nobe a couple times. You see him really embracing the matchup against Josh Hart a few times. Whereas in the previous four games it's been a little touch and go, and. And I think when we were listening to some of the players that we talked to at the podium, you know, this evening, a big thing that they kept talking about is just moving the ball, moving the ball, playing the way that, you know, got them to this point. And I think that's maybe subconsciously a plea to Jalen to sort of get back to what it was that was working for him. I mean, even in game five, you could kind of see him thinking, if that makes any sense, there was a pass, you know, in the first half, the Hawks have gotten downhill, and in the regular season, he would have just gone up and made that bucket. Instead, it's like you could see him stop mid air and think, wait, no, I'm supposed to. We're down this many. I should pass to the person in the corner for three. And it leads to a turnover. And so there just been so many moments throughout the series where you can kind of see his gears turning. And I think what the Hawks want to see him do is just kind of get back to that instinctive type of play that really worked for him during the regular season.

[Dave Defora]

What do you make of the difference in the first couple of games of this series and the last couple games in the defense on Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson, it feels like they have sort of solved for what Atlanta has tried to do with Nikhil Alexander Walker and Dyson Daniels and Jalen Brunson, just by far and away has been the best player in the series. Yeah, when we were previewing the series, we thought there was a chance maybe Jalen Johnson could step up. Obviously, CJ McCollum has on nights been the second best player, you know, especially if that game winner. But Carl Anthony Towns has outplayed everybody on the Atlanta Hawks.

[Lauren Williams]

Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

So what do you make of, of the Knicks and their adjustments as we look ahead to Game 6 and try to figure out a way for the Hawks to get to game seven?

[Lauren Williams]

Yeah, again, I think it just goes back to the experience sort of factor in terms of the preparation that these teams are doing in between games. And just, it's not to say that the Hawks aren't students of the game. I, I firmly believe they have plenty of guys who sit there and watch film and absolutely dissect, you know, what it is that needs to be done. But it's sort of that difference between, okay, knowing what needs to be done and actually being able to execute it and execute it well. And I think in watching the games, you could see the Hawks attempting to execute it and they're doing their, their very absolute best too. But I think the Knicks are just a much more talented team right now. They have a lot more talented players. They have a lot more consistently talented players. And I think that's kind of the difference maker in the series as well. And in terms of just like Kat and Brunson, it's just like they're absolutely eating the Hawks for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, every meal in between. It's at some points hard to watch, especially because they're using some of that physicality against the Hawks. And that's what I mean by the Hawks are, you know, you know, putting out their best effort. They're, they're trying to defend for the full 24 seconds in the shot clock. And then you just see, you know, Kat and Brunson do these veteran moves that draw the fouls, and at some points you see Josh Hart doing some of those moves as well. So I think that's going to be, you know, maybe the biggest key for the Hawks, you know, and trying to force a Game seven is how do they defend without fouling those two guys. It's like you can almost live with them putting OG Anunoby on the line or, you know, Mikhail Bridges on the line. Anybody else but Kat and Brunson, because they're just gonna eat. Just eat. They're gonna.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah, but, but Cale Bridges is not involved enough. He's not going to the free throw and you know.

[Lauren Williams]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

Hey, he doesn't want to go to the free throw line. Lauren, I have to ask you. So let's say, let's say you have a crystal ball. Okay? You're able to Predict what's going to happen in game six. What do you think will be the recipe for the Hawks to force a game seven? What's the way that they do it in game six?

[Lauren Williams]

I think the big thing for them is getting out and running. I think that's just so much of what works for them in game two and game three is just being the players that set the tone and being the guys that are the bullies. I think that's really, really what worked, especially in game two when they came back from, I believe they were down 14 in game two in the third and fourth quarter and they were just completely just taking these guys off their spots, pushing them. I think the big thing too is that, you know, Kat has figured out that matchup with Kaminga and he's absolutely getting, getting the best of them. So yeah, you know, the Hawks maybe get Jock Lundale back from that high ankle sprain, but I don't know how much of a difference maker he might be just because he's been off for, you know, the last, let's say month and the rotations have changed. You're playing with different guys. His lungs won't be under him, but at least he's a body that you can put out there for six fouls. I don't know. He's better than that, obviously, but I, I'm just, you know, that's searching for

[Esperaheny]

options at this point.

[Lauren Williams]

Searching for. That's what people have been calling for Buddy heel to get put in the game over Kisper because at least he's also a vet with playoff experience that can shoot the ball. And, and that's something that the Hawks were struggling to do is just get the ball in the net. So I, I just think at this point you gotta just throw everything out there.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, Mike Brown's done a really good job of avoiding the hack a Mitch strategy. And so that has taken away, in my opinion, some of the opportunities for like Buddy healed time. I mean there's just no. And, and frankly, like it was a wasted opportunity. The one time that, that they got to hack a Mitch because you still had non shooters on the court, which makes no sense. Coaches, if you're listening, high school coaches, if you're gonna intentionally foul anyway, you might as well have your bad defenders who could shoot out there. You know, just trade three for two. Lauren, are they gonna do it? Should we go around? Let's make a prediction. Are we getting a game seven guys?

[Lauren Williams]

So I had. So actually my initial prediction had been Hawks and seven but after watching the last two games, I'm feeling less confident about that because I did think they would need seven games, but I thought that all of the games would be in the vein of the first three where they get punched in the mouth a little bit, they lose by double digits, and then they come back and obviously they won both of those games by one. I did not anticipate them kind of completely falling apart in games four and five. So I'm feeling a little less confident about Hawks and seven. But I, I just. This is a team that you can never count out, though. That's, that's why it's so hard to, to know which way it's going to swing. Because Kaminga can go off again. Because as you, you know, the, the, the Knicks have done a really good job of limiting him off the bench in these last two games. And, I mean, that's kind of the, you know, consistent pattern in terms of where they're not getting some offense, but they just need one other person on the bench to. I'm still, I'm still waiting for a Gabe Vincent game. You.

[Dave Defora]

The Lakers, I think, are still waiting on a game. Waiting on a game.

[Lauren Williams]

I remember him from the Heat. I'm waiting for him to tap into that.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Oh, man. Absolutely. That would be awesome if he did. By the way, Lauren, I, I don't think you should plan your vacation yet. I agree. It'll be in seven, so you're gonna have to go back.

[Dave Defora]

You're going Hawks in seven.

[Esperaheny]

No, no, no. I think it'll be Nixon seven. Okay.

[Dave Defora]

Yeah, I think it's going seven, too. I think. I just think this Hawks team, I think they've got a little bit more chaos in them than we've seen the last couple.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Defora]

So.

[Lauren Williams]

Yeah.

[Dave Defora]

All right, everybody go and check out Lauren at the Atlanta Journal Constitution or the ajc, if you are kind of a sports media head like we are, go and check her stuff out. She's very good covering the Hawks. Thank you, Lauren, for hanging out with us. Thanks to Aspara Henny. I'm Dave Dufour. This is Ben, the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button. Subscribe. You never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a, like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on

[Esperaheny]

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[Dave Defora]

And with Discover you can get this.

[Esperaheny]

Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year.

[Dave Defora]

Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] creditcard hey honey, it's Mom.

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[Dave Defora]

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