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The Athletic NBA Daily
Going Crazy in the Garden With Fred Katz
00:48:03
Hoops Adjacent David Aldridge and Marcus Thompson are joined by The Athletic's Fred Katz to discuss the WILD ending at MSG that led to the Knicks leading the Sixers 2-0 in the series. They break down why the Knicks have looked so dominant thus far and why Josh Hart has meant so much to them to this point. Plus, are the Lakers done for? The guys discuss why the Nuggets aren't too worried about the fellas in the purple and gold. And why were the fans chanting Fred Katz name in MSG?
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- [00:00]
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- [02:42]
Chris Herring
We are back Playoff Edition Hoops adjacent Athletic NBA show I am back just back from the NYC from Gotham with some craziness that me and Fred Cat saw last night. Freddy Freddy what' It was so good.
- [02:57]
David Aldridge
To see you last night. What a crazy game.
- [02:59]
Chris Herring
I know it was. It was insane. It was insane. Marcus, I know you've been to some crazy dubs Games. But I, I was trying to remember the last time I actually was at a playoff game with an ending that insane. And I couldn't. It was, I couldn't think of one.
- [03:16]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, that was crazy. I'm going with. By the way, I'm talking into the mic as my producer said, they like my late night radio voice.
- [03:24]
Chris Herring
You're going all Melvin Lindsay on their ass.
- [03:29]
Ethan Strauss
I'm going with. It wasn't, it wasn't that. I mean, it was a close game and it was a, it was an ending. But to me, watching Klay Thompson go absolutely game six in Oklahoma, like, that was still the most surreal thing. Like, the fans next to me were literally, they were dying. Like, they were. Every shot was like a literal pierce of their hearts. It was just. It was insane. So. But yeah, that ending last night, New York looked bonkers. But you know what? Shout out to the, to the guard, man. Like, that environment just. I mean, it is an absolute dump, but they sure know how to turn a basketball, you know what I'm saying? Like, Madison. I'm sorry, it's one of the most disappointing arenas in the league. Stop with all the mystique and all the. And you get there, you're like, yo, can we upgrade this thing? Like, why is this thing from like 85? Like, does Chris Mullen still play here with St. John's like, come on, it's 2024. But the environment is insane. Like, it's a great basketball environment. Even if, like, you can't get a good cup of coffee inside.
- [04:37]
Chris Herring
No. Well, you know, you can't have everything. Stop.
- [04:41]
David Aldridge
Media coffee there. I mean, you want to talk about it? It's fantastic, the media coffee there. It's, it's the only coffee in the world that's somehow too weak and too bitter. It just breaks, breaks the rules.
- [04:53]
Chris Herring
Like coffee.
- [04:55]
David Aldridge
Yeah.
- [04:58]
Ethan Strauss
What?
- [04:59]
Chris Herring
Oh, bring it all on me. Bring it all.
- [05:01]
Ethan Strauss
I mean, in fairness to the Madison Square Garden officials, right, like, our, our whole feelings about a, an arena is really shaped on, like, how it is for us.
- [05:11]
Chris Herring
Yes. Where do we sit?
- [05:12]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, it's like, where are we? How easy is it to get there? I don't, you know, do they have a friend? What's, what was it like getting to the media room after the, after that game? I imagine the hall.
- [05:24]
David Aldridge
I'll tell you what, the hallways, we have to go down this, this, this staircase in order to get down from the eighth floor to the sixth floor to go to the media room. And the hallways are just jam packed. The stairwell is drunk.
- [05:36]
Chris Herring
Nick fans. It's unbelievable, right?
- [05:38]
David Aldridge
And if they're not, the most sober ones are drunk. Lord knows what everybody else is. The most sober ones.
- [05:48]
Ethan Strauss
What are the lit ones then, right?
- [05:50]
Chris Herring
Oh, my God.
- [05:51]
David Aldridge
And they're all chanting, you know, fmb. And they're chanting, let's go, Nicks. And after game one, and that's their will, and they start chanting, you know, they start doing the f. TR Young chants while I'm in there. It's like, he's not even here. He's nowhere near here. You've all lost your minds. And I. I take out my phone. I'm gonna take a video of just them all chanting, let's go, Nicks. Because it was so loud in the stairwell. It was as if the rally was still happening. And it's so loud in the stairwell. I take off my phone, and this is how insane Knicks fans are. I can't hear a thing in the stairwell. So I tweet out the video, and I start seeing all the replies in the video are just, let's go, Fred Katz. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, what is this? And. And. And I go back and watch the video later, and I see that because Knicks fans are so insane that as I take out my phone, start videoing, all these fans jump in front. And I thought they were screaming, let's go, Knicks. Or whatever. And they're just screaming, let's go, Fred Katz. Into my face.
- [06:43]
Chris Herring
Yeah.
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David Aldridge
Because they are so insane and out of control that this is what they do in celebration. It was. It was a frenzy, some might say.
- [06:52]
Ethan Strauss
It's like Knicks fans are like that. That dude in elementary school who likes a girl so he pulls her hair like, that's Nick. Fans, like, it's how they love you. Right? It's. It's. It's an honor, actually, Fred. It's actually an honor. Trey Young is at home, like, yeah, they love me.
- [07:09]
Chris Herring
They do.
- [07:10]
Ethan Strauss
I love you, too.
- [07:11]
Chris Herring
There is nothing like the Garden. I don't care what you say, Marcus Thompson. There ain't nothing like the Garden.
- [07:15]
Ethan Strauss
Garden is nothing like the Garden.
- [07:17]
Chris Herring
I love the Garden. It's the best.
- [07:19]
Ethan Strauss
Nothing like the Garden. It is a dump. But there's nothing like it. No, I mean, let's. Come on, man. You gotta keep. I'm from Cali. I pull up on that thing. First thing I see at Madison Square Garden is rats outside. That was my exposure to New York. I was like, oh, what in the world is happening?
- [07:35]
Chris Herring
And rats with attitude. They get up on their hand legs, Marcus, and look at you. Like what you looking at?
- [07:39]
Ethan Strauss
But I was there for the. What year was the. The. The Eastern Conference finals? It was Spree Wells, Larry Johnson. Yeah, I've never seen a basketball environment like that. Like. Like it was like. It was like Rorkle on steroids. Like it was. It's a great place to watch a game again. I'm gonna tell you before you get there though, Freddie.
- [08:00]
Chris Herring
No, no. I'm gonna tell you when I fell in love with that place. I'm gonna tell you when I fell in love with that place. It was. It wasn't the Jordan ears. Although they were spectacular. The, the. The crowds yelling. Those series were. I'll never. Those were the greatest series I've ever covered. It was 1999 when they, when Ewing got hurt and they didn't. They had no business making the finals that year. And Sprewell was there and they went nuts and they got into the finals and as their dribble. I think. I can't remember. They played.
- [08:34]
Ethan Strauss
I was there. Didn't they play? They played, played.
- [08:36]
David Aldridge
They played Indiana.
- [08:39]
Ethan Strauss
I was there for the Indiana series.
- [08:40]
David Aldridge
That was Larry Johnson. Four point play.
- [08:43]
Chris Herring
Four point play, right. Yeah, that was that year. So as the. As they are running out the clock to clinch, I think was game five. I think they won the series four to one. And that crowd started chanting Jeff Van Gundy. It was so. I got chills when they did that. It was unbelievable. I was like, this is so awesome.
- [09:02]
Ethan Strauss
You know, like. Yes.
- [09:03]
Chris Herring
And he has it just. Oh my God, it was fantastic. Just. Oh man. Because Jeff wasn't Jeff back then. Jeff was just the dude that took over when they fired Don Nelson.
- [09:16]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [09:17]
Chris Herring
He wasn't that dude, you know, and he had taken him and they follow and he got him to play hard. And they underdogs and they made the finals and they started chanting his name and it was just like this is unbelievable. This is. This is great. And how could you not love this place?
- [09:34]
Ethan Strauss
And I do, you know. You know, Fred, I got a question for you because we're seeing around the league, right? And you, you hear to talk about dead arenas. Arenas not live and the fans or you hear that all the time. And as sports become these billion dollar businesses, you're. You can see the evidence in the crowd. How does the financial capital of America somehow maintain this real like kind of grassroots blue collar vibe even though like it's money all over the place. Meanwhile. And, and you know, we saw the shift just from Oakland to San Francisco. Completely different crowd just because the, the, the GDP in the arena arose.
- [10:17]
David Aldridge
Right.
- [10:18]
Ethan Strauss
Like, how do the Knicks keep that vibe despite, like, the wealth?
- [10:25]
David Aldridge
So I say this as somebody who's from New York, so as Shaq would say, I have G14 classification to say this because New Yorkers are insane people.
- [10:36]
Chris Herring
That's.
- [10:37]
David Aldridge
That's why. That's why. And. And you look at it, and it's funny because, you know, you know, just north and Yankee Stadium, there's a similar sort of conversation about the new Yankee Stadium versus old. The old one that the warriors have at Chase versus Oracle, where Oracle was. Was awesome and it was gritty and the crowds were unbelievable. And you mentioned the. The Clay Thompson Game 6. I was covering the Thunder then. Like, I was. I was cover. I was in that game, too.
- [11:02]
Chris Herring
We were all in the building that night. Oh, my God.
- [11:05]
David Aldridge
Yeah. And somebody. Somebody asked me this morning, like, have you ever covered a game that was just that crazy? And I was like, it was a different experience because it was on the road. But I said the Klay Thompson Game 6 in the 2016 Western Conference Finals was just a different vibe from anything that I've ever covered because it was on the road. And just.
- [11:24]
Ethan Strauss
It just.
- [11:25]
David Aldridge
I. I've never seen so many people be so dejected at one collective moment as they were there. But like, with. With the Yankees, it's been a little different because the Yankees have really leaned into the sweets. I think, honestly, the Knicks just run New York. They really. They really do. The Yankees are kind of.
- [11:47]
Ethan Strauss
There's no sweets. Can we just say that it's a dump. There's nowhere to be pretentious there. There's nowhere. Where do you go in. In Madison Square Garden to put your pinkies out? And like, they've got.
- [11:57]
David Aldridge
They've got a little. They've got their little Delta club, but what's, What's. What's funny is like, Kelly Oubre had a. Had a comment before the series about how, you know, they. They give out the $100,000 tickets to. To celebrities and all of that. And the implication was that the. The celebrities aren't that rabid, that they're just. They're there as to. To be shiny and to show off and all that. And Ben Stiller, quote, tweeted it, because Ben Stiller only tweets about the Knicks, which is a ridiculous fact about Ben Stiller, that you learn when you cover the Knicks that his only Twitter interaction is the Knicks, and that's it. He'll just tweet Knicks games. And that's the only thing that'll tweet and Ben Siller is there. And Ben Siller, quote, tweeted it, pretending to be White Goodman from the movie Dodgeball and trash talking Kelly Oubre in response being like, this is ridiculous. And what's funny is, like, you look at some of the people who are regulars on Celebrity Row, and they're just as maniacal as everybody else in the stands. You know, like, you look at the people who are courtside, and they're just out of their minds. And I think it just sort of feeds into each other. It really does. Last night, that was. That crowd was da. You were there. That crowd was wild last night. It got so loud in that building.
- [13:13]
Chris Herring
The last two minutes were. I mean, it was just. The last two minutes were ridiculous. I just. I mean, I was. I was not. I wasn't going to write about Kyle Lowry, but I was. I was going to. Men. He was going to mention factor prominently in the game in the story. I was going to write because when I thought Philly was going to win because he. He literally got two calls reversed just by complaining. He. He talked his way out of two calls, just started complaining. And then he almost had to steal on the. When on Brunson's three, Lowry had the ball. Like, he stole it from him, and it was on the floor. And then Divincenzo jumped on him and took the ball back. But just. It was. Yeah, the crowd was just. It was. It's what I love about this league. To your point, Marcus, we don't have. We don't have it anymore. Not like we used to. New York was not an outlier back in the day. Oakland was not an outlier back in the day. Cleveland's crowd was nuts. You know what I mean? Like, Chicago's crowd was nuts. Milwaukee's crowds were loud. You know what I mean? Sacramento's crowds were always crazy. You know, it was just so. Most of the league was like that back in the day. The fans that came were rabid, occasionally drunk, but always in it, into it. And you just don't. That's why New York stands out now and Boston stands out because they're still that way. They're still the way they were 30 years ago. So it's crazy.
- [14:46]
David Aldridge
And. And what's crazy is, like, I think what's also, Marcus is like, there's got to be some sort of, like, bandwagon with Golden State, right? Like, they have this unbelievably passionate base of a fan base, right?
- [15:00]
Chris Herring
Oh, no, they were always loud. No, they were always loud.
- [15:05]
David Aldridge
No, no, no, no.
- [15:06]
Chris Herring
Always loud.
- [15:06]
Ethan Strauss
I know that there are, there are.
- [15:08]
David Aldridge
Bandwagons, but there are people, there are people who, who have jumped on. Like I'm sure a lot of the people who are in the suites are, are people who have, who have jumped on when KD signed or when they won 73 games or when they won title in 15 or because Steph is, you know, the most popular athlete in the league or whatever else. It's really hard to get bandwagon fans when you're just the worst team in the NBA for two decades. So.
- [15:31]
Ethan Strauss
So the teams, I mean, there is something to that. Yeah, absolutely.
- [15:34]
David Aldridge
So, so the people who are showing up now, this is 20 years of agony that they're all letting out in one night.
- [15:42]
Chris Herring
That's true.
- [15:43]
David Aldridge
You know, this is, this is warriors fans.
- [15:46]
Chris Herring
We did do a podcast about this, didn't we?
- [15:49]
David Aldridge
Yes, we did.
- [15:49]
Ethan Strauss
And if you, and if you look.
- [15:51]
David Aldridge
At like comparing it to the Yankees, where the Yankees crowd at the new stadium is just not as good as the crowd at the old Yankee Stadium. It's like Yankees fans have, have gotten to a point where like Yankees fans are an entitled fan base. Knicks fans are not necessarily an entitled fan base. They are, they are a tortured fan base, as are some of the other fan bases in New York. And, and the fact that they have found a team that's competent, that plays this hard, that's well coached, where you look at every guy on their roster and it's like that guy is getting the most out of his talent that you could possibly expect at any given moment. You just go down the roster, you do that exercise. Like I think there's a real appreciation for this team. It's the first time they won 50 games in 11 years. And I think all of that comes out at once where it's like there isn't that bandwagon ness on the top because they haven't been good enough for long enough to have that kind of stuff. You know, it's just these people who have been tortured for like D. A. What would happen with the Wizards if the Wizards ever got really good? Just 40 years of those gonna say.
- [16:50]
Chris Herring
I was gonna say this and I was like, no, I don't want to make this about the Wizards. But Marcus, do you realize the Wizards have won an NBA championship more recently than the Knicks?
- [16:59]
Ethan Strauss
Yes. Yes.
- [17:03]
Chris Herring
That's crazy. That is crazy when you think about it.
- [17:07]
Ethan Strauss
You know, and you know the crazy part, it ends up being this like kind of self fulfilling prophecy because, because of the torture, like you feel Like, Knicks fans just appreciate, like, everything. Like, they appreciate hustle, they appreciate rebounds, right? They appreciate. And then it ends up feeding the team. So a dude like Josh Hart will be a superstar to the Knicks, right? Where he's a good player, he's obviously good players, but with the Knicks, like, he's got, he hits another level because they have it. So they're not like, yo, bring me rings or nothing. They're like, yo, if you just represent us well, like, you know what I'm saying? Just represent us well, we will ride for you. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then the team ends up, like, giving the crowd what it wants. Like, that's what becomes the thing. You watch them, like, they love just playing, playing hard. Like, they, they this one of the few crowds that goes crazy about playing hard.
- [18:06]
Chris Herring
Effort.
- [18:06]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah. Like, it's, it's, it, it's a cycle that continue.
- [18:10]
Chris Herring
I mean, it's obviously, it's not Miami, which is the team that always. The Heat culture and all that, and their, their fans do not go nuts for effort. I mean, they don't go nuts for anything, really.
- [18:24]
Ethan Strauss
But what would you rather have? Would you rather have the championships in the entitled crowd, or would you rather have the years of agony, right, and, and moments like this? Come on, Fred, you're a New Yorker. What do you want?
- [18:35]
David Aldridge
I can tell you what Tibbs wants. I think Tibbs wants to win three rings.
- [18:40]
Ethan Strauss
Huh? He wants three rings.
- [18:41]
David Aldridge
I think Tibbs wants the rings. I think after Tibs wins his third ring, he's gonna go up there. We're gonna say, tom, you've just won your third ring. How do you feel about this? He's gonna say, oh, God, get ready for summer league. You know, summer league's in, in three weeks. We've got a guy coming over from Bulgaria. He's, he's not, he's not defending well enough. I, I, he, he keeps dropping on pick and rolls too deep. I keep telling him he's got to come up to the level.
- [19:06]
Ethan Strauss
All right, so after the game, Joel Embiid said, we're gonna win the series.
- [19:13]
Chris Herring
He did.
- [19:13]
Ethan Strauss
We're good. We're gonna, he's like, no, we're fine. We're gonna win this series. I mean, that's a pretty gangster statement from a dude who can barely walk, right? Like, that's savage. If he does it. Like, go ahead and chisel out a new part of that legend.
- [19:28]
Chris Herring
I saw people clowning Embiid on, on social media, and I know I shouldn't be on Social media. It's stupid. This dude's playing on one leg, and he got 34 and 10 last night. You know what I'm saying? He's playing on one leg. Come on, y'all.
- [19:45]
Ethan Strauss
Like, I mean, that's kind of like the argument. That's what we've just been talking about. Like, Knicks fans would appreciate that, whereas everybody else is like, ah, but you don't have a championship, right? Like, y. Just winning.
- [19:59]
Chris Herring
My goodness. My goodness, man. All right, so let's let take. Because our. Because our producers wanted us to talk about the Lakers. So we got to talk about the Lakers and the Nuggets for five minutes. Can we do that? So please walk back. I'll walk back from the Garden after I write my story. And I was actually a millennial for a second because I had to watch the last two minutes on my phone because I couldn't get after my room in town. And so I just. I had no idea that the lakers were up 20 in that game. I thought. I just thought, oh, close game. It's gotta be. You know, that's a gut shot for the Lakers. They can talk all the yang they want. I don't see how they come back from that.
- [20:38]
Ethan Strauss
Is it really, though? Is it really?
- [20:40]
Chris Herring
That's a gut shot, Marcus.
- [20:42]
Ethan Strauss
I mean, that would imply they had a shot.
- [20:47]
Chris Herring
Damn, Marcus. I'm not even. I'm not like, it's 10 in a row. It's 10.
- [20:52]
Ethan Strauss
We've lost 10 in a row to the same thing. I. I watched that whole game, Fred. The Nuggets were up 20, and I'm.
- [21:00]
Chris Herring
I'm not watching Lakers.
- [21:02]
Ethan Strauss
I'm sorry. The lakers are up 20. I'm not watching this. Like, oh, man, the Lakers just pulled this off. I'm watching this. Like, how will the Nuggets come back? When they do, who's it going to be? Is it going to be yic? Is it going to be Jamal Murray? It going to be Michael Porter Jr. We knew they were coming back. We knew it. Do we not know this? We knew it. Come on, man. The Nuggets are inevitable, especially against the Lakers. Anthony Davis was destroying Jokic in the first. Darvin Ham had the game plan. He had Ruy on him. Jamal Murray's 3 for 19 or something like that. Game plan's working. And then it's like, all right, here we come. And then LeBron, like, steps on the gas. He's hitting threes. He's getting steals and dunks. None of it matters. None of it matters because the Nuggets are inevitable. That wasn't a gut shot. If the Nuggets have been in their gut already, it's like the body blow that had left an imprint from last year. And it's still there.
- [22:00]
Chris Herring
Still. Wow.
- [22:03]
Ethan Strauss
I've seen this before. Go ask Portland about playing against the Warriors. Some teams you just like, man, no matter what we do, this is how it's gonna end.
- [22:13]
Chris Herring
That's funny you mentioned that, because that was the. That was the swaggiest, most obnoxious I've ever seen. Steph was when he came back from the injury in Portland and just dropped 20 on him in overtime, talking about.
- [22:26]
David Aldridge
I'm here, I'm back, dude.
- [22:32]
Chris Herring
Like, damn. It's like that stuff we just. Yeah. Let me end this real quick, you.
- [22:37]
Ethan Strauss
Know, I mean, like, like, you guys watch. You guys watch Joel drop 34 live on one leg. It just lets you know, like, Jokic is just ridiculous. Like, he is insane. It's insane. Like, he turned Anthony Davis, like, into, like, into like a mediocre defender at the end of games. Like, dude is insane. And that's. That's the number one problem. In any case. My. My number one answer when you trying to beat a team is, do you have a solution for the number one guy? Like, you're not beating the warriors unless you got a plan for Steph. It ain't happening unless you got. You gotta have a good plan for. You got a good plan for Steph, you got a shot. What's the plan for Jokic? They have Anthony Davis and there's no plan. Like, it's insane.
- [23:26]
David Aldridge
It's. It's crazy that he has really become like, he is the bet. He's not just the best player in the league. Like, he is the cra. When is the last time there was just like a crunch time engine like him, where it's just give him the ball and he's going to go nuts. I mean, Steph is that in like a different sort of way, though, you know, Steph is going to hit these insane shots, but Jokic is more just like, you want to get a good shot every single time, no exception. You're going to get a good shot. You're going to get an open standstill shot. You're going to get a cutter who's going to make a layup. You're going to get him posting up and just getting a really easy floater or something. Like, you want a good shot, you're going to get it every single time. I can't think of a guy who is topping it was Bron.
- [24:12]
Ethan Strauss
Really?
- [24:13]
David Aldridge
Yeah, it was Braun. You're right.
- [24:14]
Ethan Strauss
That was the one last time.
- [24:15]
Chris Herring
Yeah. Yeah. Bam. Adebayo is a finalist for defensive player of the Year. Finalist for defensive player of the year. And Jokic destroyed him. Destroyed him last year. Yeah.
- [24:34]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, there's, it's. And you know, like, Jokic is obviously amazing, but the, like Jamal Murray needs some love, man. Like that dude. I mean, as far as like late game shot making, like, we thought we, we thought the bubble was just like a hot streak. Like he's proven every playoffs, you know. And you know, it's e. Like, I'm not saying he's not playing off Jokic, right? Obviously. Like, he's playing off Jokic. He's getting, he's getting looks.
- [25:03]
Chris Herring
I gotta make the shots.
- [25:04]
Ethan Strauss
You gotta make the shots for it. Like, you gotta. And this dude, like, he just, he just does it. Like, I mean he already has the, has the record for highest regular season of playoffs jump scoring average. But like, this dude makes big shots regularly. Like he, he, he does it a lot. And I, I, I'm not taking anything away from Jokic. Like, it's Obviously Jokic is 1A. But man, Jokic is like, hey, I got the ball. Come get this. Let's do this dho. Let's get you into your spot. And if Jokic is telling you that, that tells you how much he believes in Jamal Murray.
- [25:39]
David Aldridge
They got the best dribble handoff chemistry in the league for sure. Like that, that DHO is, is unguard. I mean, the game winner on Murray is like, he's so good at shooting off of movement. He's so good at shooting off of the dribble. Like his body control is incredible when he rises for those shots. And you just have to worry about Jokic. Like with Jokic, it just all starts with the passing. You can't, you can double. Teams have tried to double. You've seen teams in game one.
- [26:04]
Chris Herring
Yeah, they tried in game one to double.
- [26:10]
Ethan Strauss
You gotta score 60 on me. I'm not doubling him.
- [26:12]
David Aldridge
And you know what? He will. He will.
- [26:14]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, he will. He'll have to do it. You're going to have to do it with me.
- [26:17]
David Aldridge
But it's just, it all starts with the pass. And you, you have to worry about taking away the pass because he is going to. He's. People talk about him as the best passing center of all time. And that's, that's definitely true. But he's the best passer in the NBA. Like, he is the best passer in the NBA. And when he is. When he's done playing, like, I don't think if he keeps doing this for years and years to come, we're going to talk about him in the conversation for the best passer ever. We're going to talk about him with Magic and those kinds of guys as the best passer ever. Because the fact that the types of passes he's able to make because of his size and the ones that he sees that even smaller guys aren't able to see, like, if he has the same mind and the same precision as Chris Paul, but he's a foot taller, he can make a lot of crosscourt passes and crazy passes that Chris Paul.
- [27:06]
Chris Herring
Yep.
- [27:06]
David Aldridge
Just not capable of making.
- [27:08]
Chris Herring
Right. And comp is. Is Magic and Bill Walton. Those are the comps for him in terms of passing, because of their size, because they can see over everybody. It makes it.
- [27:19]
Ethan Strauss
I think that gets lost, man. Like, it's just a different world up there. Like, you can just see so much more. The part that amazes me is, like, about Denver is like, man, all right, Game on the line. Yoga. Just getting the ball off out the inbounds and running point. Like, it's just.
- [27:38]
Chris Herring
Dude, he's just pointing where. Guys on the last business. He's like, no, go over there. No, no.
- [27:43]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah. He's like, hey, everybody get the right. You know, he's putting that pressure on you. Remember you used to play and it was always that one dude, you in about your face, clapping like, that's yokish in the line. Like, man, watch out, man. I want to spread this around. He, like, in your face. Like, give me the ball. Like, this is the center, man. Like, he's like, I got this. Let's run it. Waving people along like, it's. It's a crazy sight to see. Like, it's. It's so entertaining.
- [28:05]
Chris Herring
He's. It's not that he's not athletic, but he doesn't look at it, but he is, obviously, you know, like, it's just. He's just so good. I just keep coming back to that. He's just so good at this. I wrote he's Tim Duncan. I'll stand by that. I stand by it loudly, with my chest out. He. He is Tim Duncan. They're the same guy. They play the same way. He's a better shooter than Duncan is, but other than that, they're the same guy. They just destroy. You get year after year after year, and you have nothing for them. You don't have a thing that you can do to Stop them. And they're amazing. And if. If Jokic is greedy. Oh, this ain't. This ain't. This ain't changing anytime soon. If he's greedy. And I think he is. I think he is.
- [28:56]
Ethan Strauss
Is n. He's a Gru. He's ready. He's got the GRW vibes already. He's so. So, Fred, how. How do you expect this series to change when it flips to Philly? Especially with, like, Joel issuing, You know, if Joel was saying, we gonna win a series after that game and then he saw what y did, like, he might be like, yo, shoot me up. Let's go. We. Let's go. How do you expect it to change this as we go to Philly?
- [29:26]
David Aldridge
Well, I think the first thing is they're going to need to get stuff from guys who aren't Maxine Embiid. You know, like, defensively, I think the Sixers have been awesome in this series. And. And I actually. I understand where Embiid was coming from. Even if they lose the last two games and they just get swept, like, I. I understand where Embiid was coming from.
- [29:43]
Advertiser 1
He.
- [29:44]
David Aldridge
He didn't even say it to me. I didn't even feel like it was really cocky. It was almost like he was. With his tone, like, when you read it, it sounds like a Rasheed Wallace guarantee. And then when you watch him say it, it's almost like he was talking to himself. It's like he was reassuring himself, you know, like he was just being like, we're going to win the series. We're going to win the series. We're gonna. I just have to keep telling. We're gonna win the series. You know what I mean? And yes.
- [30:07]
Ethan Strauss
And defensive sound like it was like a technique he learned in therapy or something. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:13]
Chris Herring
Use goose froing coping mechanism.
- [30:16]
David Aldridge
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think defensively, the Sixers have done an awesome job on Brunson from a game plan perspective. Nick Nurse has, you know, Josh Hart's man helping off of help. They're doing a helping off of Josh Hart helping off a heart because he can't shoot. And they're. Although he has in this series, and Brunson is. And Brunson is getting into the paint, and Embiid is there waiting for him because he's defending Hartenstein or defending Mitchell Robinson, and Hart's man is there waiting for him, and whoever is Brunson's primary defender is basically guarding him from behind as Brunson goes to the paint and he's just meeting These players. And I don't think Brunson's decision making has been in character in those moments. He's put up some bad shots, he's tried to get fouls, which he's just not going to get in the playoffs. And I think they're good non calls on the ones that he hasn't been getting and, and he just hasn't looked good. And when you, when you stop Jalen Brunson, you think you should be winning. And if you're Philly and you say, well, you know what, the game plan is good. The game plan says you should be letting Josh Hart shoot. And Josh hart has made eight threes in two games.
- [31:22]
Chris Herring
So you lose by 31%, 31% for the season.
- [31:26]
David Aldridge
And he's also hesitant to shoot usually. And you lose by a total of 10 points because Josh hard is it eight threes over the first two games. You're probably saying like, damn, it could be, it could be 2, 0 at the same time. Like, I think offensively Maxi was awesome in game two. Like he was sick. He didn't even shoot around and he, he just came out blazing, hitting threes right off the bat and he was awesome in the fourth quarter. He was so good in that game. But the Knicks even guarded him well and he was so good. And Embiid, you have to hand it to him, he's obviously not 100% and you're right, he's, he's playing through pain and he's, he's doesn't have the mobility that he had and he's just hitting jump shots left and right. He's just an enthusiasm, sane shooter. But you look at the other guys and it's like one thing that I Wonder come game three, it's like Tobias Harris played 41 minutes in, in game two. And I thought he was really good defensively for them, as were most of their guys. But I wonder if they go another way because offensively I don't know if he's necessarily giving them enough right now hanging in the corner. He's not necessarily taking advantage of, of the way the Knicks are guarding him. Like, I wonder if that's an adjustment they make just playing with, with his, with his minute some. And, and offensively they just need to find a way to get somebody else going that the thing is that they can't really run because Embiid's not going to run with them. So they kind of have to work out of the half court. And the Knicks are really good defensively in the half court. And their centers, Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah Hartenstein, have done a really good job guarding down low on Embiid and whomever else happens to come down there.
- [33:00]
Ethan Strauss
And.
- [33:00]
David Aldridge
And I thought they've done a good job at least making Maxi difficult, even though he. He's blowing by everybody because he's Tyrese Maxi. So they need to find a way, I think, to get the. The role players going in in some capacity while also continuing to cut off the water to Brunson, which may not happen. By the way. Jalen Brunson is too good to shoot 29% for a playoff series.
- [33:19]
Chris Herring
Right, Right. I. Look, I do. Right. I think they do have to run, because how else. How else is Uber going to score points? How else is Tobias Harris going to score points? I mean, the rotation is seven guys, maybe. I mean, there's. Who's playing. He's not going to extend the bench. I mean, Reed's not even playing that many minutes now that Embiid's back. So they gotta run. How? I mean, they gotta. They gotta. Because New York's defense is really good when it gets set up. So you got to try to get eight to 10 more points in transition, I think, per game. I mean, I think you got to throw ahead. If it's three on. If it's three on three, so be it. Just drive Kelly Oubre, just drive to the basket, Tobias Harris, and see if you can draw a foul. Because you got to do something, because you can't beat your head up. You know, you can't expect 35 for maxi and 34 from Embiid every playoff game. I mean, somebody else does have to score.
- [34:15]
David Aldridge
Hey, to your point, you want. I see teams all the time. They go down the break and. And they don't think they have numbers. It's a three on three. And so they react as if, okay, we're. We're all matched up. It's a three on three. We don't have numbers. So we're going to pull up. Marcus, I had a conversation about this with your guy, Draymond Green, like, two months ago when the warriors were at msg. And it was very illuminating. And he was talking about how, like, three on three means you have numbers because it's fewer players in the same amount of space, which absolutely is more space.
- [34:47]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah.
- [34:47]
David Aldridge
So go and attack. I get that. I also think the other thing is, look, the.
- [34:53]
Chris Herring
Nick.
- [34:53]
David Aldridge
The Knicks won that game in the final 30 seconds is a very easy thing that you can say. That being said, the start of the fourth quarter is where Everything could have turned for Philly where those are the non Jalen Brownson minutes. And even though Brownson's not playing like himself, you look at his importance to their offense during the season. After the Julius Randall trade, which is when they traded away RJ Barrett, traded away Emmanuel Quickley, two guys who were staples in their second unit. Quickley was the reigning sixth man of the year runner up, and Barrett is a guy who they staggered to play with the second unit as a 20 point scorer. There. They get rid of those guys and they just can't score with Brunson off the court after that trade. 123 offensive rating with Brunson on the court and 102 with him off the court. 123 points per 100 possessions. That is. That's just a ginormous 21 point per 100 possession difference. It's huge. It's the best offense in the league when Brunson's on and the worst in the league when he's off. And the Knicks I know were looking for combinations to use that could help them. With Brunson off start of the fourth quarter in Game 2, Philly doesn't just want to take advantage of Brunson being off. They go to the extreme. They rejigger their rotations. Now Embiid is staying on at the start of the fourth quarter. So it's not just the non Brunson minutes, it's the non Brunson and Embiid minutes. And then a little bit into it. Tyrese Maxey subs in. So now you got maxi ending beat on the floor with Brunson off. Those are minutes that the Sixers can't just win by one or two or three points. They need to squash the Knicks in those minutes. That was the case for the first 4 minutes and 17 seconds of the fourth quarter, and the Knicks won those minutes by two. Bogdanovich hit a couple of really timely threes. Miles McBride made that play where he tore the ball away on the rebound and got the layup out of it. Like the Knicks were making plays. Those sorts of plays.
- [36:47]
Ethan Strauss
The.
- [36:47]
David Aldridge
The 50, 50 balls like McBride just tearing the ball away. Those are the types of plays that you can't afford to lose.
- [36:52]
Chris Herring
And 1 for an. And 1 for an.
- [36:54]
David Aldridge
And one. Those are the plays that you can't afford to lose. And the Sixers should have been. When that happened, I was like, I think the Sixers just lost the game. They needed to have the lead coming out of this and instead they're like down Seven or. They're down seven or down five. With Brunson, they were down eight. Yeah. With Bronson back in. And you know what?
- [37:13]
Chris Herring
They still.
- [37:14]
David Aldridge
They still came back and won those minutes, in part because that's how good Maxi was. Yep. And Brunson couldn't hit shots down the stretch.
- [37:20]
Chris Herring
Yes.
- [37:21]
David Aldridge
But. But they. They need to crush in those, because they can't. No matter how well they defend him, at some point, Jalen Brownson is going to get used to this. He's going to make his process better. He's going to stop taking those flailing shots. He's going to figure out a way to not shoot 29%, and the Sixers are going to have to make up for that in some capacity. And their best spot to do it is when Brunson's not there. And. And that did not happen in game two. I thought that really hurt them.
- [37:49]
Ethan Strauss
What's. What's been crazy, though, is. I mean, Da. You said it like, that's the series. I mean, Josh Hart's 8 for 15. 3.
- [37:58]
Chris Herring
Look, look, there's nothing Philly can do about that. Nothing. That's what you have to do. You have to let him shoot. Like, that's the. You've got to let him shoot open shots. That's the. That's the move against them. He's made eight threes. What are you gonna do?
- [38:14]
Ethan Strauss
I mean, if he keeps this up, he gets a statue, right? Like, I mean.
- [38:18]
Chris Herring
Yes.
- [38:19]
Ethan Strauss
I mean, these are. These are. You know what these threes remind me of? These are Andre Iguodala threes. It's the one where you've done your best to cover Steph and Clay, and you've closed down everything, and it's a swing. Swing. And here's Andre Iguodala wide open. It's like, at that point, you're just down to prayers. But Josh Hart is shooting the best in the series. Like, tyrese Maxey has eight threes, but he's second. 20.
- [38:45]
Chris Herring
Yes.
- [38:45]
Ethan Strauss
And Josh Hart is eight for 15. Like, is it reasonable, Fred, to. To expect this to sustain? I mean, 8 for 15 is crazy, but has he become. Has he been a better shooter? Is this like a progression thing? Like, is this surprising at all that Josh Hart apparently doesn't miss when he's wide open?
- [39:09]
David Aldridge
I'll tell you this much. Well, I'll tell you two things. First of all, about two weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago, Josh Hart was dealing with a wrist sprain, and he literally. In his shooting wrist, and he literally was not shooting he went an entire game without shooting a jump shot. And then the next game, he went the whole first half without shooting the jump shot. And he had communicated to his teammates, I literally cannot shoot right now. And it was very clear. Halftime of that second game, he took a half court shot and it actually almost went in. It was the first time he took any kind of jump shot in about two games. And he tells me that after the half court shot. And Josh is, you know, he refers to himself as a clown. So I'm just going to use his words and say a clown. Josh tells me that he went to Jalen Brunson after that shot, and he said he felt his Rick, his wrist click into place. And he says he went to Jalen Brunson at the half and said, I can shoot threes now. And he started shooting threes in the second half of that game. I think he shot 1 for 2 from 3 in that game. Since his wrist, as he put it, clicked back into Place, he's shooting 48 from 3.
- [40:17]
Ethan Strauss
This dude's wrist is like Mel Gibson's shoulder and Lethal Weapon.
- [40:21]
David Aldridge
I said, I said, I said, I said to him, this is basically the plot of, of not Little Big League. It's basically the plot of Rookie of the Year, but the kid who becomes the closer.
- [40:31]
Ethan Strauss
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [40:32]
David Aldridge
Is exactly the plot of that movie, except he's actually shooting 48% from 3 since that moment. The, the, the serious analysis that I'll give you is that one thing that Josh has dealt with for a long time in his career is not just the lack of a jump shot. It's the way that he'll get down on himself when he's missing shots. He can really start to hesitate. He can really start to not want to take those shots. He pump fakes himself out of, out of threes that he shouldn't be taking. And something leading into this series. And I've had open conversations with him about it. I wrote, I wrote some about this with some quotes that he had said a few days ago, just about how, like when he, the ball comes to him and he's open, he'll think about his form, he'll think about his wrist placement, he'll think about where the defenders are. When someone's right in his face, he just goes right up. And so I'm thinking when I'm talking to him about that, I'm like, man, playoff series, even more incentive not to guard you. And so Josh knew coming into this series that whether they played Philly, whether they played Miami SPO is going to help off him really aggressively. That's what Miami did against the Knicks in the second round of the playoffs last year. And Nurse is going to help off him aggressively because for two games in March, they played the Sixers consecutively. And Josh was actually shooting really well for those two weeks leading up to it. He made multiple threes and I think seven of his previous eight games they go to Philly. And he shoots one for seven in each of those Philly games. And the reason why is because Philly is just helping. They're like, shoot the ball. We don't care. And he's thinking about it. He's thinking about every time he rises. So going into this series, the whole week he's like, I'm working on my shooting. I'm coming back late. I'm just going to get comfortable going up and shooting because it's what I will have to do with the way that they are inevitably going to guard me in this series. And so the whole week, because they have six days off between the last day of the regular season and the game one of this series, that whole week he's just working on shooting. And I don't think what happened in that week is all of a sudden Josh Hart all of a sudden fixed all the fundamental flaws in his shot, that he fixed the hitch and that he's a better shooter than he's ever been. But I do think what happened is he probably saw the ball go through the hoop a lot because he was shooting a lot. And I do think what we see right now is him catching the ball, and when no one is around him, he's just going up or he's making a quick decision and going into a dribble handoff or he's driving or whatever. There's not really that hesitation. And the hesitation is always what's more problematic than the actual misses. And right now he's just going up and he's not thinking about it as if somebody's in his face. And they, they he's not going to shoot 50 some odd percent or whatever he's at. He's not going to shoot close to that. He might end up just shooting 31. But the fact that these are coming in bunches and that he's going up confidently mean makes a big difference for spacing, and it makes a huge difference for the way the Knicks offense operates.
- [43:18]
Chris Herring
You know what else is amazing? What about his presence on the floor because he's such a great offensive rebounder. If you look at that last play when. When DiVincenzo misses the first shot, MB goes to block out Josh Hart and not Isaiah Hart. I. I've looked at it 20 times and like, I can't believe he went to go box out the guard, not the seven foot center. What? But he's a great offensive rebounder. I understand why he.
- [43:54]
Ethan Strauss
I mean, how many times they've told him in practice, you gotta put a body on Josh Hart. They probably said this a million times.
- [44:00]
Chris Herring
Isn't that amazing? That's the playoffs, man. Playoffs makes you do crazy stuff, man. It's fantastic. I love the playoffs so much because things happen that are just incredible. It's just great.
- [44:12]
David Aldridge
It is, it. It is amazing. And you know what? It's like, it's totally justified. Like he's the best. He's the best rebounder 6, 400 in the NBA for sure.
- [44:22]
Chris Herring
I know Y and B did it. I'm not saying he was wrong to do it. I'm just saying the result was he.
- [44:26]
David Aldridge
Also, he also in that game, like pulled down a couple of contested rebounds against like he beat him.
- [44:33]
Chris Herring
Yes.
- [44:33]
David Aldridge
On some rebounds. Like if you're Philly Embiid had zero rebounds in the second half. That's another thing where it's like. I know, I know he's playing hurt. I. I know, I know.
- [44:43]
Chris Herring
But like him, he's not a rebound.
- [44:46]
David Aldridge
You gotta get a rebound. You gotta just get a couple. Yeah, just accidentally be there when the ball bounces to you. It's not like he was never anywhere near the ball. You know, you gotta just.
- [44:55]
Ethan Strauss
Right.
- [44:55]
David Aldridge
Accidentally be there. Especially against this team. Like the Knicks were first in the league in offensive rebound rate. This is how they are built.
- [45:01]
Chris Herring
They.
- [45:02]
David Aldridge
Not only do they do they want to beat you with offensive rebounding. They. They want to be. They want to take advantage of those second chance opportunities. Like they drill scramble situations after second chance opportunities constantly.
- [45:15]
Chris Herring
Yes.
- [45:15]
David Aldridge
And they wrote.
- [45:17]
Chris Herring
Yeah, you wrote about that today. And it was a great piece about how they do that. And you know what I thought about? Where was Tibbs in 2007, 2008? He was in Boston. What it, what was Ray Allen, the absolute. What did Ray Allen basically invent in this league? The second chance three. He invented it. Rebound, go to a spot, go to the corner. Wait, the ball will get there. Spoelstra has talked to me about this, about how Boston. Nobody was doing this before Boston off of offensive rebounds, where guys would just sprint to spots and Ray Allen would hit these. What, What Spoelstra called. Oh, shit. Threes. Offensive rebound throw To Allen. Oh, bang. And you see where they got it from. Tibbs was there.
- [46:09]
Ethan Strauss
Tibbs helped him teach before anybody said something. Steph Curry was at Davidson at the time, so.
- [46:16]
Chris Herring
Yeah, right, right.
- [46:17]
Ethan Strauss
It wasn't like.
- [46:18]
David Aldridge
Right.
- [46:18]
Chris Herring
No. Boston, Ray Allen, Tibbs. You see where this comes from? And so off of a scramble, they knew exactly where the ball was supposed to. Everybody went where they're supposed to go. And Dante's wide open. That's not by accident. So again, playoffs reveal so many incredible things. And the games last night, not. Not Orlando, Cleveland, with all due respect, the other two games reveal the greatness. I'll say this, though, for Suggs to come back after being injured. Looked like he was out for the season. He came back. That's what happens in the playoffs. Guys come back. Guys do what they have to do to get back on the floor to help their teams.
- [47:00]
Ethan Strauss
Friend of the show, Jamal Mosley. Yes.
- [47:04]
Chris Herring
No, no, no. I'm just saying yes. I. I hope they play better. I hope they do play better because I don't want them to go out like that.
- [47:10]
Ethan Strauss
But I know somebody's not hoping they play better. Somebody's hoping to be like, yes, finish this out sucking and pay me a lot of money so I could come help you all out.
- [47:20]
Chris Herring
Who could you be talking about, I wonder? Did we talk about him earlier in the show Budget?
- [47:28]
Ethan Strauss
Who might go there?
- [47:30]
Chris Herring
Oh, he ain't going nowhere. Come on.
- [47:33]
Ethan Strauss
I agree. I don't think he's going anywhere. I think he's straight.
- [47:36]
David Aldridge
He'll.
- [47:37]
Chris Herring
He'll take the. He'll take the hometown district discount. Finish out. Come on.
- [47:42]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, that's what Fred did. Fred took the hometown discount.
- [47:44]
David Aldridge
It's true. It's true.
- [47:46]
Ethan Strauss
Ain't that right, Fred? You're just.
- [47:48]
David Aldridge
You're just trying to. You're just trying to hurt my paycheck right now, and I don't appreciate it. Just lowering my market value.
- [47:56]
Ethan Strauss
Oh, man, you're going from astronomical to stratospherical. You're fine.
- [48:02]
Chris Herring
You know what I'm saying? You're fine.
- [48:05]
David Aldridge
That's why. That's why we become beat writers.
- [48:07]
Chris Herring
Good to be young. Fred, man, I'll see you Sunday. I won't be a game three because I gotta. Because the local team's drafting a quarterback. I'm gonna have to be here for that. But I'll be there for games.
- [48:20]
Ethan Strauss
Are they, though? Are they?
- [48:22]
Chris Herring
Yeah, yeah, they are.
- [48:26]
David Aldridge
I don't know.
- [48:27]
Ethan Strauss
Bob Mars is on there if you're ready for a little shake up.
- [48:30]
Chris Herring
Nah.
- [48:31]
Ethan Strauss
Is he still consulting with the commanders.
- [48:33]
Chris Herring
Yeah, yeah, Bob's still there. Bob's still working with him. Yeah, but n. You don't spend 6 billion and then trap and then trade.
- [48:41]
David Aldridge
Back to take a tackle, right?
- [48:48]
Chris Herring
Not happening. Oh, man. So I will see you Sunday. Freddy in the. In Philly. In the Ill. Adel. And Marcus, where do you. Marcus, are you going anywhere? You who's sitting this round out. What you doing?
- [49:00]
Ethan Strauss
Yeah, I haven't been. I'm on a bench, you know, if coach called me to come in, you know what I'm saying.
- [49:05]
Chris Herring
But you ready? You working on your shot like Josh.
- [49:08]
Ethan Strauss
Hart, you know what I'm saying? Not really. No, I'm not. I'm not. Not working on the shot. It's gonna be some bricks if I get in the game right now.
- [49:19]
Chris Herring
Damn.
- [49:20]
Ethan Strauss
You gotta let me know a little bit. Give me some time. Let me know when so I can dust this thing off.
- [49:27]
Chris Herring
Yeah, I'm on.
- [49:29]
Ethan Strauss
I'm doing Olympic stuff, man. I don't know about you. You doing. I'm getting ready for Paris. You know, you should be with me. But hey, yeah, you know, I did.
- [49:37]
Chris Herring
The Olympics last week in New York. I was there for three days.
- [49:39]
Ethan Strauss
That's right, you did.
- [49:41]
Chris Herring
I was talking to Spencers whatnot. It was cool.
- [49:44]
Ethan Strauss
Sounds fun. I want it.
- [49:47]
Chris Herring
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Leave that five star review. Apple, Spotify, Google Play, wherever you get this fine American podcast. Marcus, if they can't leave them five.
- [49:54]
Ethan Strauss
Stars, keep it to yourself. You haters. We go make you eat dinner at Madison Square Garden where there is so there's no good dinner. Or better yet, we'll make you walk the halls after a big win with Fred Cats.
- [50:09]
Chris Herring
Well, I see there, that's. Yeah, that's.
- [50:13]
Ethan Strauss
That's a disaster.
- [50:14]
Chris Herring
That's a no hoper for you.
- [50:32]
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- [50:57]
Advertiser 3
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- [51:51]
Chris Herring
ACAST powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's.
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Ethan Strauss
A show that we recommend.
- [51:58]
Advertiser 4
Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast.
- [52:02]
Advertiser 5
For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.
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Advertiser 4
We love getting to talk to experts. We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from you.
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Advertiser 5
But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh.
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Advertiser 4
A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.
- [52:22]
Advertiser 5
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
- [52:29]
Advertiser 4
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all about aging together better and also being able to laugh about getting older.
- [52:36]
Advertiser 5
We hope you'll join. Join Us Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Pen Holderness New episodes every Tuesday.
- [52:43]
Chris Herring
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.