Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: How do the Nuggets survive without Jokić?
Date: December 30, 2025
Hosts: Dave DuFour & Esfandiar Baraheni (aka "Esperaheni")
Guest: Joel Lorenzi (Bulls beat reporter)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily grapples with the fallout of Nikola Jokić’s knee injury and what it means for the Denver Nuggets’ season. Dave DuFour and Esfandiar Baraheni analyze how Denver could cope without their superstar, break down the Cavs’ much-needed win over San Antonio, and look at the evolving identity of the Spurs and Raptors. In the final segment, Bulls reporter Joel Lorenzi joins to discuss Chicago’s injury woes, the precarious trade status of key players, and the philosophical crossroads facing the franchise at the trade deadline.

Main Segments & Timestamps

1. Nikola Jokić Injury Fallout - [02:29–07:59]
2. Cavaliers' Statement Win & Spurs Concerns - [08:02–12:47]
3. Raptors-Magic: Playoff Preview, Scottie’s Star Turn - [13:25–15:29]
4. Chicago Bulls Check-In with Joel Lorenzi - [18:37–31:31]

1. Nikola Jokić Injury Fallout

[02:29–07:59]

Key Points

• Context: Nikola Jokić exited with a knee injury at the end of the first half vs. Miami. Severity was unknown at recording.
• The injury occurred following an awkward play involving Jaime Jaquez and Spencer Jones, with Jokić immediately holding his knee and exiting for the game.
• Miami blew out Denver after Jokić left, but both hosts agreed “no one is really thinking about the game right now.”
• Denver’s depth is being tested, with Christian Braun and Cam Johnson also out.

Nuggets Outlook Without Jokić

• "If Jokic is out for an extended period, it's seven starters" — Esperaheni [04:34]
• On Jokić’s Value:
  • “Jokic is worth four guys, man.” — Dave DuFour [04:38]
• Jokić has been extremely healthy throughout his career; this makes the injury even more worrisome.
• “The fact that he fell down also wincing—a reaction that we haven’t necessarily seen from him a ton. That’s what makes this concerning.” — Esperaheni [05:22]
• Hope is for a minor injury (hyperextension), not season-ending; the Nuggets’ recent bench performance gives some hope they could tread water for “a couple weeks to a month.”

Depth, On/Off Data & Survival Mode

• Past years: minus 12 to minus 15 point differential with Jokic off; this year, just minus 2.7 (“not bad compared to what it’s been in the past”).
• Jonas Valančiūnas gives them a real backup center.
• Jamal Murray having arguably his best season could help stabilize play.

Short- and Long-Term Implications

• Two consecutive losses, start of a tough seven-game East Coast road trip.
• “Long term, obviously, it’s a season changer for the Nuggets.” — Dave DuFour [06:59]
• Awaiting MRI/testing; full update expected the next day.
• Memorable Moment: “I gasped when this happened.” — Dave DuFour [07:47]

2. Cavaliers' Statement Win & Spurs Concerns

[08:02–12:47]

Cavaliers: Grit and Identity

• The Cavs finally claimed a critical win, defeating the Spurs—a team they usually struggle against in high-leverage games.

• “Their aggressiveness… especially down the stretch, like Evan Mobley showed me a lot.” — Dave DuFour [08:56]

• Evan Mobley’s block on Wembanyama and Jared Allen’s 27 points highlighted a return to identity.

• Esperaheni notes: “This was the most the Cavs looked like the Cavs all year. They ran a 10-man rotation… more cohesive on the defensive side of the ball.” [09:07]

• Craig Porter and Jalen Tyson have emerged as key secondary ballhandlers.

Spurs: Shooting Woes and Growing Pains

• Spurs followed up an 8-game win streak with two straight losses, shooting just 23% from three in both games.
  • “You’re not going to win a lot of basketball games in the NBA shooting 23%.” — Dave DuFour [10:47]
• Need more diverse offense for Wembanyama, easier shots, and a plan to realign their offense as he reincorporates into the starting lineup.
  • “They found an identity with that three-guard lineup… What’s the ax to the chisel, etc.? How does that work in tandem? You gotta find Wemby easier shots.” — Esperaheni [12:07]

Notable Quotes

• “Their biggest concern is going to be shooting the basketball, especially from three.” — Dave DuFour [10:53]
• “If they’re not going to make [threes], they’re going to have a hard time scoring in general.” — Dave DuFour [11:14]

3. Raptors-Magic: Playoff Preview & Scottie Barnes’ Star Turn

[13:25–15:29]

Key Points

• Thrilling comeback: “21 point comeback for the Raptors. This is the second night of a back-to-back, Scottie Barnes with more clutch blocks.”
  • “He leads the league in clutch blocks this year… every time a game is close he’s making a play around the basket.” — Dave DuFour [13:35]
• Scottie Barnes’ exclusion from top 20 All-Star voting is baffling to the hosts.
  • “I just think that’s absurd… If there was a best player for the Raptors… I would say it’s Scottie Barnes this year.” — Esperaheni [14:18]
• Raptors show resilience; tied for the second most comebacks this season.

Bench Depth & Rotations

• Jamal Shed’s steady play was key in the comeback; Immanuel Quickley was benched in the 4th quarter.
  • “I think they could maybe take off if they move Shed into the starting lineup.” — Dave DuFour [15:29]

4. Chicago Bulls Check-In with Joel Lorenzi

[18:37–31:31]

Bulls’ Misfortunes Continue

• Injuries to Kobe White (same calf as preseason) and Josh Giddy (hamstring) compound a blowout loss to the Wolves.
• “The Bulls are Bullsing it up… This thing could snowball like it did when they… lost seven of eight.” — Joel Lorenzi [19:40]
• Caution expected with Kobe White—longer timeline likely due to previous injury and upcoming trade deadline.

The Kobe White Dilemma

• White’s value, injury risk, and potential trade: Minnesota Timberwolves are rumored to have interest, but it’s unclear what his actual playoff role could be.
  • “If he goes in Minnesota, is he in a sixth man role? Is that better for him?… Where does he truly sit for a winning team?” — Joel Lorenzi [24:14]
• Bulls have been notoriously passive at the deadline:
  • “Bulls generally do not deal at the deadline. They do not swing these deals. They have not been explosive on these markets.” — Drew Ski [25:40]

Anthony Davis Rumor Dissected

• Hosts and Joel dissect the idea of Chicago trading for Anthony Davis:
  • “I have many gripes… namely the obvious, his availability… The fact that we’re doing semantics and mental gymnastics about his availability should mean something.” — Joel Lorenzi [27:55]
  • Joel argues Chicago should move toward a youth-driven rebuild, not another big-name acquisition for mediocrity’s sake.
  • “It’s probably… smarter to rebuild and actually build a defense younger and from the ground up.” — Joel Lorenzi [28:41]
  • “If we were going to summarize this whole segment for Bulls fans—if you want Anthony Davis, Joel Lorenzi says have some self-respect.” — Dave DuFour [29:52]

On Bulls’ Perennial Limbo

• Chicago “stuck in the middle”, failing to tank properly or make bold moves.
• “They need to go that route [rebuilt], and Chicago’s probably been overdue for that.” — Joel Lorenzi [30:38]
• “It’s shameful and it shouldn’t happen. The Chicago Bulls had maybe more global cachet than anyone that wasn’t Boston or LA.” — Dave DuFour [30:58]

Closing line: “They’re more interesting of a read than a watch right now.” — Dave DuFour [31:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Jokic is worth four guys, man.” — Dave DuFour [04:38]
• “This is currently the best player in the world.” — Esperaheni [04:44]
• “I gasped when this happened.” — Dave DuFour [07:47]
• “If they’re not going to make threes, they’re going to have a hard time scoring in general.” — Dave DuFour [11:14]
• “This was the most Cavs looked like the Cavs all year.” — Esperaheni [09:07]
• “If you want Anthony Davis, Joel Lorenzi says: have some self-respect.” — Dave DuFour [29:52]
• “They’re more interesting of a read than a watch right now.” — Dave DuFour [31:32]

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The Nuggets’ title hopes are in peril if Jokić misses significant time, but their improved depth could limit damage in the short term.
• The Cavaliers showed much-needed mental and physical toughness in a big win over San Antonio, but the Spurs’ lack of shooting is a lingering issue.
• The Raptors’ bench and Scottie Barnes’ two-way impact fueled another improbable comeback, strengthening their playoff credentials.
• Bulls’ season derailed by injuries and indecision; the franchise is at a crossroads—continue the status quo or finally commit to a proper rebuild?

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