How Harden has changed the Cavs

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: How Harden has changed the Cavs
Date: February 17, 2026
Host(s): Dave DuFour, Esperahenny (Esfandiar Baraheni), Carter, with guest Justin Rowan (Chase Down Podcast)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the immediate impact of James Harden’s arrival in Cleveland, breaking down how his presence shifts the Cavaliers’ offensive approach, team chemistry, playoff prospects, and overall roster construction. The hosts also look ahead at Cleveland’s playoff run, discuss concerns and challenges, reflect on the Darius Garland era, and speculate about LeBron James returning to the Cavs.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Harden Trade: Immediate Impact on the Cavs

Style and System Continuity

• EsperaHenny (02:29):
  • Despite the "seismic" nature of the trade, the stylistic fit is compared to Darius Garland’s role:
    • “They're bringing in another brilliant pick and roll guard... Keon Ellis basically replaces what they had last year in Isaac Okoro and Dennis Schroeder.”
    • "Stylistically, I just don’t think it’s a dramatic shakeup."

Harden’s Fit with the Bigs

• Carter (04:12):
  • “Jared Allen has looked incredible in the first three games with Harden—averaging 24 points and 10 rebounds... That connection feels like it’s going to thrive.”
• EsperaHenny (05:00):
  • “The biggest misconception... is the playoffs have been lost due to offense falling apart, not defense. Harden as the facilitator should prevent the two-guard tunnel vision, keep Allen and Mobley involved, and act as a 'release valve.'”

Playoff Implications and Offensive Upside

• Dave DuFour (06:59):
  • “Allen has a track record of success as a pick and roll big, but the hang up is Evan Mobley—the shooter. 30% from 3 isn’t going to cut it. He needs to take shots to create space for Allen.”

Making Mitchell’s Life Easier

• Dave DuFour (07:55):
  • “He’s (Harden’s) already making Donovan Mitchell’s life easier—hit big threes at the end of a couple games. The offense is a little ‘my turn, your turn,’ but in a complimentary way... Donovan has never had this kind of consistent partner this season.”
• EsperaHenny (08:50):
  • “Over those three games, Mitchell’s usage has actually gone up... he’s play-finishing, doesn’t have to create as much, which is an interesting wrinkle.”

---

2. Addressing Playoff Narratives & Harden’s Reputation

Harden’s Playoff “Demons”

• Carter (10:16):
  • “There’s more context to Harden’s playoff failures than people admit. The Cavs aren’t relying on him the way the Clippers or Sixers did.”
• EsperaHenny (11:03):
  • “For the first time, Harden is playing with a guard (Mitchell) who is flat-out better than him. So now, Harden’s job is to get them to game six, and Mitchell—who has the ‘superman’ closer gene—can take over from there.”
• Quote (11:04):
  • “If James Harden can just get them to—hey, this is game six and we have the opportunity to close the team out, now Donovan, you go be that closer... Maybe that’s a better formula.” — EsperaHenny

Flexibility in Using Bigs

• EsperaHenny (12:32):
  • “Harden’s history of success with a variety of bigs (Capela, Zubac, Embiid) gives me hope he’ll help Mobley get back to where he was last season and build on that.”

---

3. Potential Problems & Lineup Questions

Defensive Concerns Post-Trade

• EsperaHenny (14:51):
  • “I do have some concerns defensively. Harden is decent at the point of attack—better than injured Garland and Mitchell—but off-ball attentiveness is a concern for both Harden and Mitchell.”
• Soft Switching:
  • “Kenny Atkinson loves to give up the soft switch... Harden won’t be attacked as easily as Garland, but defensive lapses still possible.”

The Third Big & Rotational Depth

• EsperaHenny (16:37):
  • Questions Dean Wade’s consistency and health as the “third big.” Also notes Naquan Tomlin brings energy but shooting and spacing could be an issue in the playoffs.

Small Ball Possibilities

• Dave DuFour (17:08):
  • Suggests Jalen Tyson playing up or Strus/Keon Ellis for small-ball lineups. EsperaHenny notes Tyson is good on the offensive glass but Cavs struggle preventing second-chance points.

---

4. Playoff Matchups & Path Forward

Seeding & Matchup Prospects

• Carter (18:38):
  • “Easy schedule gives Cavs a real shot at the 2-seed.”
• EsperaHenny (19:05/19:29):
  • “I do think they can make the NBA Finals... Pick and roll offense is tough for the Knicks to handle—Harden is designed in a lab to expose this.”
  • Health is a big concern, especially for Mitchell, who has often worn down in the playoffs.

Not Afraid of Detroit

• EsperaHenny (20:52):
  • “I just don’t fear Detroit... Cavs have more depth and experience... Allen and Mobley feast inside against Detroit.”

Eastern Conference Depth

• Dave DuFour (22:32):
  • “East is more internally competitive than we’ve given it credit for: any of the top 4 could come out. Harden’s presence allows Mitchell to have rest, and Cleveland should be the 2-seed.”

---

5. The Darius Garland Era: Retrospective

• EsperaHenny (25:38):
  • “A lot of Cavs fans will always root for Garland. He turned things around for Cleveland, played with joy... the year before Mitchell, they were the 3-seed at the All-Star break.”
  • “That Game 2 in Miami—when Garland ruptured his toe—was really the end of the window for that group.”
• Garland's production admired (“as productive as De’Aaron Fox”), but long-term toe health is worrying, and Cleveland’s window is now with Harden.

---

6. Roster Management & Organizational Confidence

• EsperaHenny (27:13, 29:07):
  • Highlights Cavs’ skill in mining value:
    • “They’ve found guys undrafted: Sam Merrill, Naquan Tomlin, Dean Wade… Tyrese Proctor is my under-the-radar guy for a Tyson leap next season.”
  • Despite losing off-ramps for the future (Garland/Mobley core), expresses “confidence in the front office to retool.”

---

7. LeBron James Speculation: Could He Return?

• Dave DuFour (30:11):
  • “Are the Cleveland Cavaliers going to sign LeBron James this summer?”
• EsperaHenny (30:24):
  • “I think there’s a decent chance here... If they can offer the mid-level, storyline and basketball fit both make sense. I think the writing is on the wall in LA.”
• Carter (31:12):
  • “Where else would he even want to go? ...It’s Cleveland or bust.”
• Narrative Factors (31:39+):
  • If Cavs fall short in playoffs, “I can come and be the piece that puts them over the top next year, which is perfect for the LeBron James narrative.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• EsperaHenny [about Harden’s playoff context] (11:03):
  "For the first time, he's playing with a guard that's flat out better than him... If Harden can just get them to a closeout game, now Donovan, you go be that closer. Maybe that's a better formula."
• Carter [on the trade accelerating the timeline] (25:16):
  "Naturally, you accelerate your timeline with Harden on the roster. You got 10 years older at the guard spot."
• Dave DuFour [LeBron speculation] (30:11):
  "Are the Cleveland Cavaliers going to sign LeBron James this summer?"
• EsperaHenny (30:24):
  "I think there’s a decent chance here... If you’re willing to take that discount, what better situation is there... you can slot in between."
• EsperaHenny [on the Pistons matchup] (21:09):
  "As much as people talk about... a soft big man pairing, [Mobley and Allen] have routinely feasted against Jalen Duran and the Pistons inside."

---

Important Timestamps

• [02:26] – First impressions on how the Harden trade has changed the Cavs
• [04:12] – Harden's effect on Jared Allen and the offense
• [05:00] – Why Cleveland's playoff struggles have been offensive, not defensive
• [06:59] – The Mobley shooting problem and overall offensive scheme
• [07:55] – How Harden changes Donovan Mitchell's workload
• [10:16] – Revisiting Harden's prior playoff failures and new fit
• [14:51] – Defensive concerns: soft switching, off-ball defense
• [16:37] – [18:38] – Rotational depth; discussions on Dean Wade, Naquan Tomlin, Jalen Tyson
• [19:05] – Playoff projections and Cavs matchups
• [25:38] – Reflecting on the Darius Garland Era
• [30:11] – The LeBron James question and future plans

---

Tone & Style

• Conversational, with a blend of analytic depth and humor.
• Banter and inside references (Canadian shirts, “threatened by the maple leaf”) set a friendly, welcoming vibe.
• Analysis is sharp but always brought back to relatable concerns for fans (chemistry, playoff pressure, health).

---

Conclusion

This episode comprehensively analyzes James Harden’s fit and influence on the Cavs, balancing enthusiasm for the new offensive dynamic with realistic concerns about defense and playoff readiness. The hosts highlight the nuance in roster construction and playoff narratives—including the potential homecoming of LeBron James. With humor and expertise, the show positions Cleveland as a true contender—and a compelling NBA story to watch as the season unfolds.

Transcript

[Amazon Prime Advertiser]

Prime one day deliveries fast. How fast we talking? We're talking tissues and hot tea fast. Feel better meds fast. Relief at your door fast. So you can. So you can actually breathe out of both nostrils fast. Like I just ordered and it's already here. Fast, fast. One day delivery to feel better sooner. It's on Prime.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

We all have moments where we could have done better. Like cutting your own hair. Yikes. Or forgetting sunscreen so now you look like a tomato. Ouch. Could have done better. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education, and human help when you need it. Learn [e-mail] after the rush of the holidays, what you really want is your space back. Pura is a smart home fragrance system designed to help you feel calm, grounded, and at ease without adding one more thing to your routine. Control scent, intensity schedules and timing right from your phone. And right now, get a free Pura home diffuser when you subscribe to 2 cents for 12 months, risk free for 30 days. It's restoration made simple. Visit pura.com to get started now.

[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily presented by Amazon prime for February 17, 2026. I'm Dave DeFore here with EsperaHenny and Justin Rowan. Coming up, big Cavs talk. Today we're going to sit down with Justin Rowan and look ahead to the future of the Cavs, what they might do in the playoffs, and whether LeBron James is coming this summer. Good morning, everybody. What's up, ass? What's up, Justin Rowan. Welcome to the show. Justin Rowan, one of the hosts of the Chase down podcast. He covers the Cleveland Cavaliers. Hope you guys had a good All Star weekend.

[Carter]

I did. By the way, Justin, you're wearing a Jasper Canada shirt.

[EsperaHenny]

I'm wearing a Jasper shirt. Like, this is basically, you know, the podcaster uniform bribing me here with just.

[Carter]

A bunch of Canadian stuff on it.

[EsperaHenny]

And. And we got sea bears. We got sea bears underneath, man. So I'm doubling down. I'm pandering to you. I'm trying to make sure that this is a friendly reception here and also to make sure that Dave feels threatened. That's a really important part of this equation.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes. I'm very threatened by Canadians. You know, it's that maple leaf on your backpack to hide the fact that, you know. Or to cover for the fact that that's not American.

[EsperaHenny]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

That really scares me.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. Are the Cavs scary to you now?

[EsperaHenny]

I think to some extent, yes. So my biggest Concern with the shake ups they did at the trade deadline is anytime you see a seismic shakeup like this, how often do those teams make the Finals, forget go out and win the NBA Finals. So to, to some extent I'm concerned about that. Right. Like, I think this is going to be a team that's very, very good down the stretch. They have an incredibly easy schedule after the All Star break. There's a couple weeks here where they're playing some other contenders in the Eastern Conference. They play okc, but we'll see who's available for that. But after that, it's a very, very light schedule. So this is a soft landing for them. But when they get tested in the playoffs and you don't have kind of that chemistry and continuity like you had in the past, I'm curious about how that's going to shake out. But I, I do think the one aspect that is encouraging for me is I don't feel like it's a major shake up from a style of play standpoint. Right. Like they're bringing in another brilliant pick and roll guard that, that's going to run a lot of the same kind of stuff that, that Darius would have ran. Keon Ellis basically replaces what they had last year in Isaac Okoro and Dennis Schroeder. A very, very, very discount version of Ty Jerome. But outside of facility, though.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he can make. He can make.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah, yeah. Like, stylistically, I just don't think it's a dramatic shakeup. Like if they brought in Demontis Sabonis and now we're running a lot of offense through the, you know, him as a post creator, I think that might be a little more difficult. But you know, the east is pretty wide open and this is a system that's pretty similar to what they've been running. So from that standpoint, I do think that there is a chance that it works out here.

[Carter]

And you, you look at, I mean, they haven't had a chance to play with Evan Mobley yet, but I think that's the next big Kahuna there. Like, how does the hard Mobley tandem work? But Jared Allen has looked incredible in the first three games with Harden. He's averaging 24 points and 10 rebounds, which is like, that is incredible numbers at the center position, both offensively and he's looked a little bit better defensively. That connection in general feels like it's going to thrive. How do you think that works when it comes to postseason basketball for this team? Because so much of, so much of the last couple of years for the Cavs was there's far too much reliance on Garland, on Mitchell to create everything. Is there more of a release valve now that you can involve Allen and potentially Mobley a little bit more?

[EsperaHenny]

I hope so. Right. Like, I think one of the biggest misconceptions of the previous era of Cass basketball is, you know, when they got to the playoffs, the reasons they fail or they fell short were everyone's preconceived notions, right? Like it's the small backcourt getting picked apart defensively or, you know, it's the two bigs all. Basically everyone's confirmation bias kicked in in those situations, where in reality what it's been is that the offense has come up short, right? Like the, the defense, maybe it would have fallen apart at some point, maybe that would have ultimately been its undoing at some point in the postseason. But the reason it fell short was the offense. And sometimes that's been Mobley not necessarily being ready to be that release valve. I think the last two years it's been Darius getting injured and no longer being able to fulfill his duties as a point guard. And then it turned into point Donovan, right? And point Donovan is not great for anybody not named Donovan Mitchell. There were times, even that game two against Indiana where Jared Allen had a rolling, like he had a fantastic, efficient game, but in the fourth quarter as Mitchell got more tired, he's using his energy strictly as a score, right? And he's not involving anyone else. He strains his calf in that game and at that point that was pretty much the series. So I do think having Harden in the mix is going to be a kind of interesting chicken or egg type thing, right? Because he's going to be available, right? Like, we don't know, we don't know how it's going to look in the postseason, but if he's available, does that stop Mitchell from wearing down? We know he's going to consistently feed the bigs, where sometimes the tunnel vision of the two shorter guards, when they're getting blitzed and they're getting trapped, sometimes they didn't involve the bigs. So does Jared Allen remain productive if he's being consistently fed? Does Evan Mobley remain productive if he's being fed? Plus you have the added wrinkle of now being able to run some, you know, mid post stuff for James Harden and other sets that you just couldn't run with the 6 1. Darius Garland.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I, I will say I, I think Al, Jared Allen has a track record of success and is a pick and roll big, good short Roll passer. The problem that they're going to have, the hang up that they're going to have when their five man lineup is out there is Evan Mobley, the shooter. 30% from 3 is not going to get it done. He's a low volume shooter. Right. He needs to actually take shots. That's going to be what creates all this space for, for Allen. And then you've got the big to big passing that I do think is something they can use. So maybe it's a little bit of Mobley diving from the corner and you know, catch getting the pass from Allen. As the defense rotates, there are ways to work around it and Kenny Atkinson's a good coach. I'm not worried about the structure. It's more the performance like you said. Yeah, Harden is going to be available. He is going to play. We've already seen though in the fourth quarters he is making Donovan Mitchell's life easier right in the games. I mean he's hit big threes at the end of a couple of games now for Cleveland. You know, he's only been there what, three games and down the stretch, fourth quarters, it's a little bit of my turn, your turn. But in it. And I say that as a compliment because Donovan Mitchell never had this, this season, this consistent partner like this. And the fact that it looks different than what Donovan does gets everyone in the pick and roll, gets the defense rotating and then Donovan Mitchell when he gets to come behind Harden after the, after the screen and role play, the floor is wide open, the defense is already scrambled and it does seem like he's had a couple of easier big fourth quarters than he's had. You know, it often feels like Sisyphus with Donovan Mitchell. It really does that rock up the.

[Carter]

Hill, especially for the start this season. Man. Yeah, it was, it was incredible.

[Dave DeFore]

But those last, those last few games, I, I thought that the vision of the fourth quarter finish, I, I saw it.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah. And the interesting thing is over those three games, Mitchell's usage has actually gone up right. Like he's play finishing and he doesn't have to create as much and I think that's an interesting wrinkle and I, I think the other component of this is I think Mitchell is a good passer for a shooting guard. He's just not ready to or he doesn't have the energy to play point guard full time.

[Dave DeFore]

It's a different type of passing. Right. Like he, he can read but he is not a survey the floor point.

[Carter]

Guard tilted, tilted defenses when the defense is in Rotation, he can make a play, but if it's set, it's a lot harder.

[EsperaHenny]

Right. And that's why he had, you know, 10 assist in that last game against Washington, which, you know, you can't read too much into it. We barely even recapped it on the podcast. But, you know, I think when the defense is in rotation, he's going to make the right decision. But if you think back to that Indiana series when he was running, you know, the, basically the offense for the Cavs, what Indiana did was they said, we're not sending help. We are going to let him score at the rim, we're going to let him drive, we're going to let him, you know, play one on one. We're not going to bring the help and give him that easy read as a playmaker. We're not going to let him kick, do the kickout pass. We're not going to let him drop off to the big. If he's going to score in the paint, which he did a ton of, and, you know, they, they won the points in the paint battle, we'll live with that, but we're not giving him the easy reads. If Harden's initiating and Mitchell is getting the ball swung to him and he's attacking a destabilized defense, I think that is going to help kind of those connective passes be made in those situations.

[Carter]

To your point, about, like, Donovan's usage going up, and I think there's a lot of conversations about, like, James Harden in the playoffs. Right. Can he get it done in the postseason? Right.

[Dave DeFore]

And I, I think that's a little.

[Carter]

Bit of fool's gold, conversation wise. Like, there's, there's more context that's required to his failures in the postseason than everybody would like to admit, but at the same time, they don't need the prime James Harden that the Clippers required. Right. What James Harden had to do for the Clippers was create almost everything because they had no other creator other than Kawhi Leonard. And you look at the Sixers time that he had, it was Maxi still coming into his own, Joel getting hurt. Do you feel as if this situation around Harden is. Is maybe the best way for him to shake off some of these playoff demons?

[EsperaHenny]

I hope so. And, you know, I think this is going to be the first time he's playing with a guard that's flat out better than him. Right. Like, I think, you know, going back to, to Houston with Chris Paul. Chris Paul was at a different stage of his career. Right. Kyrie was. Wasn't himself, you know, when they were playing together in Brooklyn. So I do think that what you're hoping for, if this is going to work out, is that Donovan Mitchell is going to be that closer. And my co host Carter made a really, really good point where Mitchell's kind of had these Superman games in the playoffs where he's just gone out and, you know, taken a game from the opponent, right, where he's had to take 40 shots and he'll get his 50 points or whatever the case may be. But so many of those have come earlier in the series where it's like, man, we're down 2:1. We really need to even out this series. So like Mitchell, give it everything. This is your kitchen sink game. If James Harden can just get them to, hey, this is game six and we have the opportunity to close the team out. Now, Donovan, you go, you know, be that closer. Go out and win this game for us. Maybe that's a better formula. If he doesn't have to use up that game so early in the series, maybe he's got a little bit of legs later on in the series. So if Mitchell is the closer, I think that gives them a better chance of this working out. And I also think Harden's history of working with a variety of different bigs is a really important part of this because he's had the traditional pick and roll partner in Clint Capella, and Jared Allen fits that mold to a tee. Zubot is a little bit different, right? Like, he likes to get that deep post position and score in those situations. Joel Embiid is a completely different animal. So he's had success making a variety of different types of bigs, you know, better. And I, I think that gives me some hope that he's going to be able to help Evan Mobley get back to where he was last season and then build upon that.

[Dave DeFore]

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to look at some of the problems that Cleveland might run into the rest of the regular season and when we hit the playoffs.

[Amazon Prime Advertiser]

Prime. One day delivery is fast. How fast we talking? We're talking tissues and hot tea fast. Feel better meds fast. Relief at your door fast. So you can. So you can actually breathe out of both nostrils fast. Like I just ordered and it's achoo, already here. Fast, fast. One day delivery to feel better sooner. It's on prime.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Why choose a sleep number? Smart bed. Can I make my site softer?

[Grainger Advertiser]

Can I make my site firmer?

[EsperaHenny]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep Number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus we free home delivery with any bed and base ends Monday only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.

[EsperaHenny]

If.

[Grainger Advertiser]

You'Re the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay look, we like the hardened trade. We all agree that they got better. What are some of the issues that you could see this team having as we finish out the regular season and head into the playoffs?

[EsperaHenny]

I do have some concerns defensively. You know, James Harden does a pretty decent job at the point of attack. The tracking data, if I look at like the B ball index stats and stuff like that, it's a little bit behind where Darius was last year. But it's ahead of where Darius was this year playing through the toe injury. And it is better than Donovan Mitchell, let's say, right? Like you're not going to be able to attack him in a soft switch as easily as teams would with Darius. And that was kind of one of those really frustrating things was Kenny Atkinson loves to give up the soft switch. So when you were playing Boston, it would take one screen for Jayson Tatum to be on Darius Garland.

[Carter]

And it's a plague in the NBA the soft switch, I'll tell you that.

[EsperaHenny]

But even even though he held up great in those spots and the field goal percentage for Tatum was not good in those situations, it is still tiring for a 61 guard to just get posted up and give up mid range shot after mid range shot. Harden's not going to kind of allow that. But the off ball attentiveness for both Harden and Mitchell is a concern of mine. The other thing is if you're going to kind of, let's say you're running into a red hot Jalen Brunson, you want to get someone that can shut him down at the point of attack. That can be a stopper. I think Keon Ellis can fit that role. But you who are you taking off the court in that situation? Right. Like he's 170 pounds. You can maybe play him at the small forward and move him around, but that means, you know, you're probably moving hard and not onto OG or something like that. You're trying to hide Donovan on Mikhail Bridges. I just have questions about that. You know, that's probably one of my biggest concerns beyond what's their third big situation. Because right now it's Dean Wade and when Dean Wade is healthy and confident, he's very, very helpful and he can fill that role. A plan B is Naquan Tomlin, who I love so much.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah. Yeah. Naquan is like my. One of my favorite stories of this season. Like he brings so much energy. But in a playoff situation, how, how our defense is going to respect that three point shot, is it going to kind of gum up the spacing? Like those are kind of my, my concerns. When you have options, you can go to, you can go to Larry Nance Jr. As well as a more experienced option. But he's kind of, you know, he has not had an impact on the season to points. So I have a little bit of a concern about what that third big is going to look like.

[Dave DeFore]

What about Jalen Tyson playing up some and being like a small four and then you can get Merrow out there. Like you could have, you could have a decent amount of shooting with Jared Allen as your center.

[EsperaHenny]

Tyson played quite a bit of power forward as a rookie, so I do think that that's something you can do. So maybe that's an option, right? Maybe you are going small with Keona at small forward or Sam, as you said, or Max Struse if he's back and healthy and then you go with Tyson. Max Stru actually played a ton of power forward for Miami when they went to the finals. I think that was something that people kind of overlooked because he's only 6 5.

[Carter]

So is Drew's close, by the way.

[EsperaHenny]

There's nothing on it. Like there was. The reporting was kind of in his ramp up. They had to slow him down because he was doing too much. But then there hasn't really been anything. So my assumption is they are confident that he's going to play by the playoffs because if they were concerned about that, I think they would have moved off him at the deadline to get under the second apron. Like, I think, you know, to quote Brian Windhorse, actions over words. Right. And sticking with him at least gives me some confidence there. So I do think you can Go to some of those small ball kind of configurations. My one concern is Tyson's better on the offensive glass than he is on the defensive glass. And we have seen the Cavs give up too many second chance opportunities at times. So that. That would kind of be my general discomfort with that.

[Carter]

So, Justin, we talked about the fact that they have a very easy schedule for the rest of the year. Feels like they have a pretty good opportunity to get into the conversation for the second seed in the East, I would say just because they're only a game and a half back of the Celtics, one game back of the Knicks, like they will be in that conversation just because of how easy their schedule is. How do you see them matching up against some of these teams and can they make the NBA Finals?

[EsperaHenny]

I do think they can make the NBA Finals. Right. Like, I felt that coming into the season, I thought, you know, if this team is healthy, the east is pretty open for them. You know, they, they swept the Knicks last year. They did not have issues with that matchup. Even. Even the game at MSG where. Where Donovan wasn't playing and Darius was playing through his turf toe situation and he just completely took over that game.

[Carter]

Like that fourth quarter was incredible. I remember that y.

[EsperaHenny]

The pick and roll offense is just so difficult for the Knicks to kind of deal with. And now you have a maestro in James Harden that is like designed in a lab to expose the Knicks in the pick and roll. So I feel good about that. I have some concerns that maybe he's just going to get Cat into foul trouble and the Cats are probably going to want to keep Cat on the floor. But I feel pretty good about that matchup. My biggest concern is health, though. Donovan has broken down in the playoffs over the last few years. Really the only time he was fully healthy in the playoffs was going into the bubble after an extended period of time off. So that's a concern for me. But I do think, you know, if Boston gets Tatum back and even if he's just like the best role player in the league, that's a really good team and I don't think he's that disruptive of a presence. So I do think that, you know, they would be a big challenge. As much as I joke about the Knicks, they're. They're a big challenge as well. Toronto can be physical, so I do think if the Cavs are healthy, they can be.

[Dave DeFore]

But not worried about the Pistons at all. As. Do you hear this? Yeah, did not mention the Pistons. I mean, Justin, what's going on? I know that there's a rivalry, but is this, like, you just don't, you.

[Carter]

Don'T believe in the Pistons Central Division rivalry?

[EsperaHenny]

You know, here's the thing, man.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, there's a, there's a.

[Carter]

No, I know.

[Dave DeFore]

Team rivalry between the owners as well. Like, you just don't buy the Pistons at all.

[EsperaHenny]

I think, you know, in, in the spirit of NBA fairness, we got hit as Cavs fans with prove it in the playoffs and all that sort of stuff for years. And we also got a lot of people telling us, well, you just can't win with JB as a playoff coach. And, you know, I, I do have a lot of concerns about the Pistons lack of shooting. I think that's going to hurt them in the playoffs. Yeah. And the other thing is, like, the Cavs are, they just dropped a game to the Pistons, but before that, they're like 13 and one against this group. Like, even in games where neither of the guards played, like Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. As much as people talk about, hey, that, you know, it's a soft big man pairing and all that, they have routinely feasted against Jalen Duran and the Pistons inside. Like, they, they have had some of the best games of their careers and most efficient games. They get them in a foul trouble all the time. So I'm, I just don't fear Detroit. I, I, you know, I, this is a. Sorry for going on a tangent here, but I know this is perfect. This is podcast fears, like, conversation. Like, this team doesn't fear them. I haven't feared a team since, like the, the Kevin Durant Warriors. Like, no one in the NBA is scared of anybody, so I don't know why that's used as a knock. But I, I don't worry about the, the Pistons from a matchup standpoint. Like, I, I feel like the Cavs have more depth. I think they have more experience than Detroit as well. You know, Duncan Robinson's nice, but they also just hunted the hell out of him in Miami last season. So I, I feel.

[Dave DeFore]

And now it's gonna be James Harden doing it.

[EsperaHenny]

Exactly. And the other thing is, if the Cavs are the two seed, are we sure they're going to see Detroit?

[Dave DeFore]

I'm not, I'm not. As much as I like this Detroit team, I think that the shooting is a huge problem for them, especially come playoff time. They run into Boston, they run into the Knicks. Now, I do think that the Knicks have massive defensive problems, but Detroit might be a team that can't capitalize because they can't Shoot. It's going to be. Look, the east has become more interesting as this season's gone on. You know, like we've been hammering the east for years. It's down, it's down. It's just different than the West. It doesn't necessarily have the stars. But when you look, I mean I think that we, we have a potential eight beating a one seed in the East. I mean I just. Because shooting. I just think it's more.

[EsperaHenny]

I'm now going to be. I'm going to stand up for Detroit here. No, no, no, no, no. It would be crazy.

[Carter]

Miami Heater, Charlotte Hornets are going to be.

[Dave DeFore]

What if they got hot for a few games? I just think that the east is more internally competitive, which makes it super interesting. I mean any of those teams in the top four could come out at this point. And really with the way Joel Embiid is played, can you see a scenario where the Sixers are kind of in that mix in the second round of the playoffs? I mean it is more competitive than, than we've giving it. Given it credit to this point. But for, for Cleveland to get James Harden at this point in the season. You mentioned Donovan Mitchell breaking down. This is a huge boon to prevent that. I think they're going to be able to sneak him rest and days off here and there, especially against this easy.

[Carter]

Competition that they're going to. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

And I mean the two seed. It seems to me that the path is clear. Cleveland should be the 2 seed by the time we get to the playoffs.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah. And they also have extended periods of time where, where they're at home. They get rust down the stretch. Like they, they played a. To start the season. And I think one of the sneaky things about last year was basically from the start of February till like mid April, the Cavs never played two games in the same city. Like even when they were at home it was for a day. Right. Like it was basically a 26 game road trip at the end of the season. And Donovan started breaking down at that point. Like Kenny Atkinson talked about how his plan going into the season was I'm going to manage their minutes and then ramp up before the playoffs. But everyone was wearing down because they didn't have any opportunity for rest. There was no, you know, two games in a row in Cleveland where they can at least sleep in their own beds. It was just constant travel, constant, constant travel for them. So that's not the case this year. And you have, you know, just this proven usage sponge in James Harden. So I, I Think they're better suited, you know, to. To get into the playoffs and be on the right foot.

[Carter]

Naturally, you accelerate your timeline, though, with James Harden on the roster. You got 10 years older at the guard spot between Harden and Darius Garland. And Garland is now part of the LA Clippers. He obviously hasn't played for them yet because he's dealing with an injury. But I guess, how do you. How do you look at the Garland era in Cleveland and what you might expect for him moving forward with the Clippers?

[EsperaHenny]

I think a lot of Cavs fans are going to just always rude for Darius Garland. I think this is the guy that. That turned things around in Cleveland. He played with so much joy, and joy was the identity of this team, right. Like, when they were playing at their best, they just played really fun, energetic basketball, and he always had the smile on his face. I think people forget, like, the year before Donovan came to Cleveland, the Cavs were the three seed at the All Star break, right? Like, they were playing really, really good basketball after the break. You know, Mobley missed two weeks. Jared Allen basically broke his hand and missed after the all, like, the All Star stretch on. Larry Markkanen missed time. Charis LeVert missed time. Like, it just every single injury hit at the wrong time. And they still won 44 games like that. That's more regular season wins than Trae Young has ever had in his career. Right. Like, and that was with Garland as that top guy. So I think Darius was a huge part of their identity last season. Their offense was historically good. It was even better when Darius was on the court on his own. Right. Like, he was the most impactful offensive player for them. And I was talking to Carter about this when we're kind of eulogizing the Garland era, but it's just kind of hard to think that that Game two in Miami where both of us were in attendance, and he lands on a fan courtside and ruptures his big toe on his right foot. That. That really was the ending of the window for that group, right. As. As constructed. And, you know, the Clippers now, they. They've shut him down. Not for the. The toe that he recently hurt, but the surgically repaired one. It's the other one.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[EsperaHenny]

You know, he was playing through a lot of pain, and even though he was playing Great the last 10 or so games in Cleveland, he said, yeah, I'm about at 75%, but I'm, you know, I'm finding ways to play through it. Right. Like, he was toughing it out. And I appreciate the hell out of that. And the stats basically, like, if you look at the season, it's a limited season, but he was as productive as de' Aaron Fox on like the same efficiency. So I, I think this is just a situation where it's going to take a year or two for Garland to fully recover from this toe surgery. Obviously it's tough because from a team building standpoint, as you mentioned, you're getting older and you're probably not getting any return on investment for Harden outside of what he brings on the court. Right, right. Like, and I think that was some unease as a fan because, you know, you always, like, even though they were a contender, you had this off ramp in your mind. You're like, you can go back to Garland and Mobley here. You can pivot, right? You can pivot. You can, you know, Garland Mobley and whatever return you get for Donovan Mitchell, you can feel good about that. But I, I think this is the Cavs, you know, basically saying to the fan base, we're going to do everything we can to try to win a championship in this window and we have confidence in our ability to find talent to do an eventual pivot at some point. I do think that the emergence of Jalen Tyson has been a big part of that too. Right. Like they, they drafted him at 20, he probably goes top five in a redraft and they found guys that, that are undrafted. Right. Like Sam Merrill was pick 60, he was in the G League, they, they turned him into an NBA player. Naquan Tomlin, undrafted. Dean Wade, undrafted like they Porter can hoop.

[Carter]

I wish he got more run, to be honest with you.

[Dave DeFore]

Tyres Procter.

[EsperaHenny]

Tyrese Proctor is like my under the radar guy for like a Jaylon Tyson leap next season. I just love the way that guy plays basketball.

[Dave DeFore]

So the minutes with him and Mitchell were, have been a lot of fun, you know, before Harden got there.

[EsperaHenny]

He's got so much poise as a big guard and you know, maybe he is that, that third guard of the future. So I do think that, you know, you kind of have to have. Even though it's uncomfortable and now it doesn't feel like we have that off ramp. And as, you know, fans, you always want to have your cake and eat it too.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Yeah.

[EsperaHenny]

I think you have to have some confidence in the front office, in their ability to acquire guys. Right. Whether it's trades, whether it's through the draft, whether it's undrafted players, whether it's.

[Dave DeFore]

Whether it's getting older legend in free.

[EsperaHenny]

Agency this summer is whether it's that as well. Right. Like they, they managed as a second apron team to pivot and make their team better at the trade deadline. And this CBA is basically designed to not allow you to do that, right?

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

They saved what, $100 million in tax?

[EsperaHenny]

Crazy amount of money. They got themselves right close to that second apron. So it's easier to get under this offseason. If they need to free up the mid level exception for, you know, a star player or a supplemental role player, they can do so.

[Dave DeFore]

So, you know, beat around the bush here.

[Carter]

We're talking about LeBron James.

[Dave DeFore]

I want you to answer this question and I need you to tell me the truth. Are the Cleveland Cavaliers going to sign LeBron James this summer?

[EsperaHenny]

I think there's a decent chance here. I think the writing is kind of on the wall in la and if they're able to offer mid level exception, like there's just the storyline aspect. Like, I think, I think the storyline aspect in the marketing and the PR of coming back to Cleveland the first time was a big part of it. Right? Like, I don't think he liked wearing the villain hat in Miami and all that. Like there was, it was not only a PR win, it was also the best basketball situation. Right. Like they, they had Kyrie Irving and they had the ability to go out and get Kevin Love or belief. Lamarcus Aldridge was plan B at that time. Like they had the assets to build a contender. This is going to be basically the same situation where, hey, if you're willing to take that discount, because I don't think any team is willing to offer the max, what better situation is there, right? Like you can slot in between.

[Carter]

So where else would he even want to go? You know? Like, that's the other aspect. I, I don't, I don't see him envisioning going to play like with the.

[Dave DeFore]

He's not going back to the Heat now. I mean, maybe if they were team, but. Right, exactly. I don't think so. I think it's Cleveland or bus.

[EsperaHenny]

Anthony Davis isn't in Dallas. Otherwise I could have maybe seen, you know, Kyrie, Clay, LeBron and AD type of thing. Like, I don't think that's happening, so I think there's a decent chance that it happens.

[Carter]

And I'm also, I'm curious if, like how well or how poorly the Cavs do in the playoffs this year determines that narrative. Right. Because if they don't win this year, if they fall short of their goals, then there's this, oh, I can come and be the, the piece that puts them over the top next year, which is perfect for the LeBron James narrative, you know.

[EsperaHenny]

And if they somehow win a title, does that mean he's not going to come? Right? Like, right.

[Dave DeFore]

Because he doesn't want to be a front runner.

[EsperaHenny]

Yeah, right. Which was really kind of funny. That's. Once again, that is purely narrative type stuff. But, you know, it's tough to figure out what he's going to do, but I do think that there's a decent chance of it.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, I'm looking forward to watching the Cavs in the second half. I mean, they are one of the more intriguing teams because they got James Harden and they turned their title contention hallway into a window. So they bet they better win is the real thing for this team because I don't think they'll be able to stick around if they don't. Justin Rowan, guys, go and check him out. The Chase down podcast. They cover the Cavs. It's one of the more fun just basketball podcasts that's out there because there's two guys having a good time talking about. That's right. For Justin Rowan and Esperahenny. I'm Dave Dufour and this is Ben the NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with us.

[EsperaHenny]

Knock knock. Ooh, who's there? A Boost Mobile expert here to deliver and set up your all new iPhone.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

17 Pro designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

[EsperaHenny]

You call that a knock knock joke? This isn't a joke.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Boost Mobile really sends experts to deliver.

[EsperaHenny]

And set up your phone at home or work. Okay. It's just that when people say knock knock there's usually a joke to go with it. Like I said, this isn't a joke. So the knock knock was just you knocking? Yeah, that's how doors work. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro delivered and set up by an expert wherever you are. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com, terms apply.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Why choose a sleep number Smart bed? Can I make my site softer?

[Grainger Advertiser]

Can I make my site firmer?

[EsperaHenny]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus free home delivery with any bed and base ends Monday only at a sleep number store or sleepnumber.com guys, it's.

[Grainger Advertiser]

No use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now Tommy John underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day. There's zero chafe, thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands and their innovative horizontal quickdraw fly is a game changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to tommyjohn.com today for 25% off your first order with code comfort. That's tommyjohn.com comfort Tommy John comfort Perfected.