Inside Nuggets Training Camp + Opening Night Picks

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Inside Nuggets Training Camp + Opening Night Picks

Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Dave DeFore, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni
Featured Guest: Sam Amick (The Athletic Senior NBA Writer)

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Episode Overview

This episode sets the stage for the 2025-26 NBA season, focusing on storylines emerging from training camps and looking ahead to opening week matchups. The hosts discuss their picks for the most intriguing games, analyze roster changes across key Eastern and Western Conference contenders, and deep-dive into the Denver Nuggets’ off-season moves with NBA insider Sam Amick. Topics include the future of the Nuggets with Nikola Jokić, recalibrated expectations for the Clippers and Kings, and the league’s evolving power dynamics as the season tips off.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Week’s Most Anticipated Matchups (02:51-20:53)

Featured Games:

• Atlanta Hawks vs. Orlando Magic
• Cleveland Cavaliers vs. New York Knicks
• San Antonio Spurs vs. Dallas Mavericks

Atlanta Hawks vs. Orlando Magic (04:43-08:57)

• Dave expresses genuine excitement for a Hawks-Magic matchup, noting both teams’ upside and new additions (Desmond Bane for Orlando, Kristaps Porziņģis for Atlanta).
  • “Other years, I would have maybe done this as a bit... but I actually think this is the battle in the East... It’s the fight for who’s next.” – Dave DeFore (05:08)
• Zena and Dave highlight how each team addressed roster needs and will test each other's growth right out of the gate.
• Zena points out the impact of staggered screens and increased offensive options for Atlanta (07:09), while she calls the adjustment to Bane's shooting in Orlando “a work in progress... but it'll look good.”

Cleveland Cavaliers vs. New York Knicks (09:02-13:33)

• Discussion centers on the Cavs’ lack of offseason moves, their “constraints-led” tactical approach, and Mike Brown bringing defensive focus to the Knicks.
• Dave: “I think after multiple years in a row of the Cavs doing this two-big thing, this is the year it has to pay off. Otherwise, you’re probably gonna have to tear it down.” (11:18)
• Zena calls out the growing relevance of double big lineups and praises Evan Mobley’s preseason confidence.

San Antonio Spurs vs. Dallas Mavericks (13:37-20:10)

• Zena highlights the Spurs-Mavs rookie showdown (Cooper Flagg vs. Dylan Harper, and Wemby vs. Flagg) as her must-watch matchup.
  • “It’s Cooper Flagg versus Victor Wembanyama. It is just going to be an awesome matchup, a Texas showdown...” – Zena Keita (13:45)
• Discussion on both teams’ size, defensive upside, and San Antonio's playoff ambitions.
• Dave notes the Mavericks’ lack of ball-handlers and San Antonio’s defensive guards.
• Roundtable agreement that the Mavs’ offense is a “work in progress,” while the Spurs could “shock some folks” due to Wemby’s leap.

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2. Hosts’ Picks for Opening Night (19:32-20:53)

• Dave’s Picks: Hawks over Magic, Knicks over Cavs, Spurs over Mavs.
• Zena’s Picks: Magic over Hawks, Cavs over Knicks, Spurs over Mavs.
• Esfandiar’s (S’s) Picks: Hawks over Magic, Cavs over Knicks, Spurs over Mavs.
• General agreement that San Antonio is “a little more put together” than Dallas right now.

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3. Deep Dive: Inside Nuggets Training Camp with Sam Amick

(26:02-39:51)

Nuggets’ Front Office and Organizational Reset (26:16-30:18)

• Amick recounts Denver’s shift after last year’s turbulence, emphasizing the focus on making Nikola Jokić happy, restoring functionality and teamwork in the front office (29:41).
  • “If you went into the Nuggets facility, they should maybe have a little, a little meter on the wall where you can constantly track, you know, the big fella...he’s that important to what they do.” – Sam Amick (27:09)
• Wild offseason restructuring: Firing of coach Michael Malone and GM Calvin Booth; promotions for Ben Tenser (GM) and the return of John Wallace.

Roster Moves and Depth Improvements (30:18-34:10)

• Key player moves: Cam Johnson replaces Michael Porter Jr., Bruce Brown returns, Tim Hardaway Jr. joins as a sixth man, Jonas Valanciunas arrives as a backup center.
• “Calvin Booth had tried to go the younger route and...with some of those guys, it just hasn’t worked out. Now, Christian Braun is an absolute success story, but this new crew goes out...and they get, you know, Bruce Brown comes back. You mentioned Cam Johnson, Tim Hardaway Jr.” – Sam Amick (31:31)
• The Nugget’s depth means Jamal Murray no longer has to “lead the second unit way too often.”

Jamal Murray & Jokić’s Future in Denver (34:10-39:51)

• Dave points to Murray’s inconsistent starts and injury history but sees him as an All-Star caliber player; Sam argues Murray’s playoff “All-Star” mode is more crucial.
• Jokić’s contract expires in 2027; while he’s signaled hopes to be a “Nugget forever,” his next extension will be watched closely.
  • “Those are the kinds of things that, if left unchecked, are going to create issues and eventually could change the mood of a guy like Joker.” – Sam Amick (39:22)

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4. State of the Clippers: Deep Roster, High Variance (39:51-46:55)

• John Collins (off the bench) and Brook Lopez join a “really good” Clippers roster, with Chris Paul and Ivica Zubac bringing leadership.
  • “When I turned my attention to the hoops, I just got reminded that, like, damn, this roster is really good.” – Sam Amick (41:02)
• Clippers seem unbothered by off-court controversies, according to Amick.
• The show discusses Kawhi Leonard and the perpetual question of games played, with little clarity about a new plan.
• Potential for a “wild outcome” if Kawhi plays 65+ games and enters MVP discussions (45:03).
• Bradley Beal’s fit: “You need to see where he’s at first... even beyond what he can give you on the floor.” – Sam Amick (46:22)

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5. Sacramento Kings: Blow it Up or Ride it Out? (46:55-52:28)

• Recent moves: Signing Russell Westbrook, extending Keegan Murray.
• “They’re not stuck in the middle anymore. They’re kind of stuck backside of the middle and that’s even worse.” – Dave DeFore (47:36)
• Sam outlines the challenge of unloading big contracts (Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan) and hints at longer-term irrelevance unless the front office can pivot.
• Discussion on the (failed) attempt to acquire Jonathan Kuminga from Golden State, and whether Sacramento will prioritize young assets going forward.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s opening week, it’s like a holiday around here.” – Dave DeFore (04:43)
• “The Spurs are going to shock some folks. Like, get ready.” – Trusted House Sitters Advertiser / Zena (18:16)
• “It just feels like this is a Cavs team that is a well-oiled machine. They didn’t make too many changes this offseason. You want to see how the internal development happens for them.” – Zena Kada (12:38)
• “You asked that, Dave, you feel like if you went into the Nuggets facility, they should maybe have like a little, a little meter on the wall where you can constantly track, you know, the big fella. Like, he’s that important to what they do.” – Sam Amick (27:07)
• On the Kings: “It just feels like they’re not even really stuck in the middle anymore. They’re kind of stuck backside of the middle and that’s even worse.” – Dave DeFore (47:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening night matchups discussion: 02:51-20:53
• Hosts’ picks: 19:32-20:53
• Denver Nuggets deep dive (with Sam Amick): 26:02-39:51
• Clippers training camp & outlook: 39:51-46:55
• Sacramento Kings analysis: 46:55-52:28

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Tone & Style

Lively, informed banter with a blend of deep-dive analysis and playful commentary. The panel leans into expert insights while keeping the tone accessible for both diehards and casual NBA fans.

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For fans preparing for the 2025-26 NBA season, this episode delivers valuable context on the state of contenders and pretenders, especially the Nuggets, Clippers, and Kings. The hosts provide sharp analysis and predictions for opening week, offering the ideal primer as the action begins.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily, presented by ebay. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Kada and Esperaheny. Coming up, it's our first games of the week of the season. We got our picks in. We're going to talk about the biggest games of the week for us. And I sit down with Sam Amick to go inside access on the Denver Nuggets, the Clippers, and if the Kings are going to blow it up. Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the NBA Daily. Welcome back, Xena. Welcome back. S. We are back every day from here on out, guys.

[Zena Kada]

The King absolutely should blow it up, by the way.

[Dave DeFore]

Just, just to your preview. Listen, whether they blow it up or.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Not, keep it together for our entertainment.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, well, but we got to worry about Kings fans, right? I, I just, I hope that they at least, if they're not good, at least be fun. Like, this is my entire thing about having a bad team. And it was, it was such a bright spot, those Beam team years, you.

[Zena Kada]

Know that, those years.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, I was like, not a full year.

[Dave DeFore]

They had a couple years of success. And by the way, I will say that in my, in my chat with Sam, like, he, he brings up just how short lived it was and how weird it's gotten since. So we kind of went deep there.

[Zena Kada]

But Westbrook will be fun. Westbrook will be fun. We'll say Westbrook.

[Dave DeFore]

Absolutely. He's going to raise the floor, I guess. But also, it just adds to the weirdness, in my opinion. Like, you know, you're going to have what Russ, Zach Levine, Demar de Rose, Schroeder.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

I feel like it could also be like a highlight package, like some ridiculous plays that happen and come out of Sacramento. So, I mean, I think it'll be entertaining.

[Zena Kada]

It's going to be one of those ones where if you watch the 10 minute clip on YouTube, you're like, how did Sacramento lose this game by 20? But they, you know, I don't think.

[Dave DeFore]

That, I don't think it's going to be like that. I think we're all going to know that defense is going to be awful. Yeah, guys, it's opening week. It's like a holiday around here. And you know, on, on these Monday shows, we always like to look ahead. You know, this is the nice thing about doing this every single day. We get to look ahead at the biggest games of the week, the, the stuff that we're most excited about. And obviously, opening week, it's our first chance to see a lot of these teams. And I'll just go ahead and jump right in, guys. Friday night, we're going to get our first chance to see the Atlanta Hawks and the Orlando Magic. Now, other years, I would have maybe done this as a bit. Like, this would have been a joke. Oh, why the Hawks and the Magic? Come on, Dave. But I actually think this is the battle in the East. That's, It's. It's not necessarily obvious. Right? Like, it's. It's not. We don't expect necessarily these teams are going to make it to the Finals, but it's sort of the fight for who's next.

[Sam Amick]

Or do we.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, maybe. Right. Like there's a chance. It depends on, and I believe we're going to talk Cavs next, but depends on the Cavs and Knicks. But I think this is the, the teams that are going to be fighting for that 3, 4, 5 spot right behind them. And it's a little bit of a. It's an interesting mix of styles, but also both of these teams have some new additions that I'm excited to see. I want to see how Desmond Bain changes the dynamic for the Orlando Magic, especially that offense which struggled, especially when Jalen Suggs was out last year. And then we've talked extensively about the Atlanta Hawks, the changes that, that they've made. Jalen Johnson coming back is, is huge. What is it going to look like with Porzingis out there?

[Zena Kada]

Porzingis looks healthy, too. He looks really good in preseason.

[Dave DeFore]

Look, you know, we haven't really hit on it, but like, Trey Young theoretically is a dark horse MVP candidate if, if things pop off, you know, for the Atlanta Hawks, I. Look, I'm hitting the brazen gas here.

[Zena Kada]

She mentioned it. I know she called it out.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I'm hitting the gas here on the Hawks. But, you know, I do think that that's a fascinating matchup and it's. It's fun that we're getting that in the first, you know, couple days of the season, because I think, you know, these teams are going to be so much more fresh and when we see it later on, because just feels like this is going to be a playoff series, like this would be the NBA TV playoff series. Let's just be honest here. And I think we're going to wind up having an opportunity to see how these teams have. Have grown over the course of the season. So this is one of those. Put a pin in it and we'll come back to it in like eight months and watch it again.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, I love that. I mean, you mentioned the. The new additions, but I think it. I'm fascinated to see how one offensively the Hawks look just because of adding Kristaps Porzingis. Like, again, the. The staggered screen stuff that they do 77 actions with like Trey Young and Jalen Johnson and Christops Porzingis, like, all that stuff. The amount of options that they have offensively now compared to what they had last year, it's a completely different story. And then for the Bane situation in Orlando, I feel like in the preseason it's been a bit of a work in progress for Paulo and Franz to adjust to the fact that they have a. A 40% shooter on the opposite side. They kind of forgot that they have that a little bit, but I'm excited to see how they adjust to it. I think it'll be a work in progress, but it'll look good. This might be.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know how much is for Gary, by the way, because Paolo can be a black hole. Like, let's not act like he can't. Right. But I do think that this is an opportunity to break that habit, and especially because of Bane.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

I do.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

No, I just love the fact that we are getting a peek at both of these teams because both teams offensively have picked up. It's weird. Magic picked up exactly what they needed in their shooting. Right. Whereas Atlanta picked up something. I don't know if they knew they needed. I didn't know. I don't know if they knew they needed a pick and pop option out of Kristaps Brazenias, but they now have it. And so both of these players, these teams are going to have the opportunity to essentially level up. And what's interesting about the two teams in front of them for the Eastern Conference, the Cavs and the Knicks, they didn't have much addition. Right. They didn't have a ton of change over the course of. Of the summer. So it's like these two teams are now elevated and are trying to catch up. We'll see how much does that balance out over continuity that the Cavs and the Knicks have.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. All right, who's up next to. Let's. We were just saying Cavs. Nicks.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

We were just talking about Cavs and Knicks and that's. I want to talk about the Cavs and Knicks. That's going to be the game. I'm going to watch on Wednesday night. I really feel terrible that as we were talking our NBA like conference previews, I forgot about the Cavs, like, which is crazy because they are Eastern Conference favorite. But I think it's because they were so quiet in the moves that they made, in the moves they didn't make over the course of the summer. It was really all about getting healthy for them and making sure that they have all of their personnel when the season starts. And they've been looking good. They've been looking kind of unbothered in the preseason so far. And I think there's a level of confidence that comes with the fact that they were the best team in the east last year and they kind of just stuttered to an end versus you know, their schemes weren't necessarily working, etc. We didn't really get to see full strength Cavs towards the end of the year. So that probably helps. I'm loving everything I'm hearing about this, like constraints led approach from Alex Sarama, their assistant coach that has like completely revolutionized the NBA and now is about to go do it in the wnba being the coach of the Portland Fire. But this is what kind of put them above everyone else and that they were reactive last year. And I'm very curious of what that's going to look like against a New York Knicks team that is now coached by Mike Brown. That's going to have an emphasis on defense. That's going to have an emphasis on, you know, really creating situations which the Cavs are really going to have to react. The Knicks similar didn't have a ton of pickups. Jordan Clarkson I don't think is going to necessarily move the needle for them, but Mike Brown is now at the helm. We're going to see how he navigates not being Tom Thibodeau of running players into the ground basically, but also having the Tom Thibodeau offensive approach. So these two teams going up against each other, I feel like both of them have a little bit to prove to each other, especially now that Boston's kind of out of the mix and Indiana's out of the mix. We'll see what happens. I'm excited though, to, to find out who will, who will battle in this situation all season long. Will this be another like, okay, C Cav type of matchup that we were very excited for last year?

[Dave DeFore]

You think we find out right away what kind of depth the Knicks added? Right? Like, are we going to find out early? Like, like 11 guys maybe in game one just to kind of Prove a point. Hey, it's a different regime here. We're going to do things differently. I also, I, I think that after multiple years in a row of the Cavs doing this too big thing, and this is the year that it has to pay off. Otherwise, you know, you're probably gonna have to tear it down and look to move on. And then the funny thing is the Knicks match up pretty well that way, right? Like you can play Mitchell Robinson and Carl Anthony Towns because of their rebounding, because of their passing. And this is going to probably be the conference finals S, I'm guessing.

[Zena Kada]

I think so. By the way, the double big thing I saw. IME Udoka credited the Rocker Rockets for inventing double big lineups. I just want to say that's, that's not true.

[Dave DeFore]

First of all, basketball, right? Unless he's talking about.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, yeah. Unless he's talking about Hakeem Olajuwon and Ralph.

[Sam Amick]

Maybe.

[Zena Kada]

Okay, sure, the Rockets invented to double big lineups, but no, it wasn't Stephen Adams and Alper and Shangun the first double big lineups in NBA history. That's just not the case. Sorry Rockets fans, I didn't mean to break it to you. There are other teams that are also doing the same thing.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Just give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Dave DeFore]

What a claim is that he couldn't have meant it that way.

[Zena Kada]

That's what I think too. It must have been a miscommunication in terms of what he said. Either way, I agree that this is probably the conference finals. That's why it's such an exciting game to see how these two teams stack up again. Like, this is a Cavs team that is a well oiled machine. They didn't make too many changes this offseason. You want to see how the internal development happens for them. And then for the Knicks, it's like, you know, do you really stack up against the Cavs in, in a major way given some of the depth improvements that you had? Given that, like this offensive philosophy is going to change for you hopefully this season too. So I'm excited to see it. Hopefully it's a, it's a good game. I will say in terms of double big lineups, I think Evan Mobley has looked great in the preseason so far. He's looking more confident in terms of.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Look, he's looking jacked. He's stepping out way more and taking.

[Zena Kada]

Threes too, which is good.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Yeah, that's huge.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zena Kada]

So good sign for the Caps.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Okay, ask what's your, what's Your game this week. All right.

[Zena Kada]

I got to make my pick. Okay. So, look, I love the rookies. I'm always watching out for the rookies. And I think one of the best rookie battles is happening on Wednesday night. It is the San Antonio spurs versus the Dallas Mavericks. It's Cooper Flag versus Dylan Harper, but it's also Cooper Flag versus Victor Wembanyama. It is just going to be an awesome matchup, a Texas showdown, if you will. You know, there's a lot of, like, theatrical elements.

[Dave DeFore]

Rodeo.

[Zena Kada]

It's a rodeo.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes. Everything.

[Zena Kada]

Look outside of the theatrical elements of, like, this being two rookies going head to head and two young stars going head to. These are two really fascinating teams in the Western Conference. You think of the San Antonio spurs, who for all intents and purposes are trying to make the playoffs this year. They're trying to take that next step. Wemby is trying to lead them there. So how do they look on game one? Especially because we don't get to see him and Fox work together. How does their depth work together? How is Dylan Harper making plays? How is Steph Castle, who's looked good in the preseason? Both those guys have looked really, really good, taking up some of the usage that Fox would have. How do those guys play off of Wemby? And then for the Mavericks, it's, you don't have Kyrie, but you have this massive team that's going to be maybe one of the biggest teams, if not the biggest starting lineup in the NBA. Maybe the Rockets have a claim to that. Shout out to email. Taco with the double big lineups, but they quadruple big.

[Dave DeFore]

They were playing Jabari Smith at the two shooting guard, and it's like, hang on a second now.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, they are massive, massive. But the. The Mavs are equally huge in their own way with Derek Lively and Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag in that front court. And I think it's really interesting, interesting to see how they'll work offensively. I think the offense has been a work in progress in the preseason. The spacing has looked a little wonky. But there's no question that both of these teams have a chance to be, I would say, like top five defenses in the NBA. Just because one side Wemby, the other side, you have Anthony Davis and this massive front court. So if you like a rookie showdown, if you like defense, you got to watch this game.

[Dave DeFore]

So here's my thing, Zena. The Mavericks have nobody who can dribble except for d' Angelo Russell and the Spur. And for this game, in particular, the spurs kind of have some dogs when it comes to, like, point of attack defense. I again, I also have watched the Mavs and felt better about them in the preseason, but I don't feel good about this one.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Yeah, no, I. We've seen Jaden Hardy do that stutter step thing, get to the basket. You're like, okay, maybe see Ryan Nemhard do a little, you know, a few things in the free season as well. But it's literally, if Cooper Flag gets off the floor, like, what are we doing? What's happening? And it's interesting, these two teams, it's going to be like a battle of the front courts versus the back courts. Even though, yes, there's Wemby. Wemby sometimes plays like a backcourt player in the way that he pulls up anyways. But Dallas could dominate with their defense, their rebounding, their size, and that could be enough to overwhelm teams this year. But as you mentioned, the skill and the speed of the backcourt in San Antonio, matched along with Victor Weyama taking an offensive leap, could be enough to overwhelm not only from an offense perspective, but then again, as s was mentioning the, the defense aspect of just protecting rim and, or being able to get rebounds and going. I am very curious because these two teams are going to be the wild cards in the west, in my opinion. They're going to be the teams where you genuinely have no idea just how much a Cooper Flag can elevate them. Just how much Victor we can elevate them. So this is a, a battle of whose future is that on the line here?

[Zena Kada]

Are you betting on this?

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Can we actually. Yeah. Are you betting on this? How much do you believe in either one of these prospects or not prospects anymore, but like these players and being able to change the trajectory of their teams.

[Dave DeFore]

Wemby in the preseason, okay, it's year three Wemby, he's looking a lot like year three, Year four Giannis, physically, just, just knocking guys out of the way, aggressive in a way that he didn't do nine months ago. I mean, this is clearly. He's been in the gym putting on some, some muscle. Like he's been working out. I. Zena, when we did our, our preview, we, you know, we talked about the top five players in the west and, you know, you had Wemby there. I think it's accurate, right? I actually think that's accurate.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

I think we might be sleeping on the spurs because of how good Wimby looks. Like, what if this is just the Year that when.

[LinkedIn Jobs Advertiser]

He.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

I mean, no, I think s. You and I were on the same page about this. The spurs, honestly could be. I. I absolutely think top six. And they also have this, like, I love Jared Weiss's piece on San Antonio, particularly Wemby, right. When they talked about watching his work ethic and that trickling into the rest of the team and what Mitch Johnson was saying about how Victor Wembanyama works is basically setting the bar for how they want to operate. And defense is a non negotiable. All of that is giving me this. I'm reading the tea leaves, y'. All. And the spurs are going to shock some folks. Some like, get, get ready.

[Zena Kada]

They know how to win. Like, there's. There is some, like, worry about spacing and shooting, and I think that there's. There's validity to that. But like Julian Champagne, I think is an underrated role player for them. He knocks down his shots pretty well. I think if you think of obviously like Kelly Olenek, a big backup, big. Who can stretch the floor. Wemby himself should be able to do it. Lindy Waters, I think Devin Vassell can knock down shots. Keldon Johnson has been a really inconsistent shooter, but has shown the propensity to like, space the floor at the corners. At the very least, like, can knock down a shot. Harrison Barnes had a really good shooting year last year, so I think that's a little overblown in terms of their office.

[Dave DeFore]

These guys are gonna have space when they play with Wendy. That's the thing, right? Like, yeah, he is. He has got a ton of gravity. So I think the shooting probably works itself out. Guys, for our bet, MGM picks of the week, we're gonna pick these games. Let's. Let's just pick the winners. I think that I'll. I'll go. I'm gonna go Hawks over. Over the Magic in the first matchup. Even though it's a road game for them. I'm gonna over Cavs. I think. I think the Knicks might just score a lot. It's gonna be hard for the Cavs to keep up. And then I'm gonna go Wemby and the spurs over the Mavericks. I just. I'm just feeling it with. With Wemby this year.

[Zena Kada]

I think I'm. I'm. I'm gonna go Magic over Hawks. Okay, Hater.

[Sam Amick]

Hater.

[Dave DeFore]

It's at home.

[Zena Kada]

You know, let's see the Desmond Bain debut. I'm gonna go with. I'm going to go with Cleveland over New York. I think just because this is a statement game for Cleveland. Make sure, hey, we're serious about this season. Let's rock. And then I am going to go San Antonio over Dallas. I think that'll be a, a pretty easy win. Not an easy win, but it's an easy decision in my opinion.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Yeah, I feel like we're doing a clean sweep when it comes to the spurs and the Mavs. They just feel like the team that's a little bit more put together at this point.

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Yes.

[Dave DeFore]

Than the Mavs training camp weight. Right. Like he's not, he's not slimmed down £15 yet.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

We haven't seen. Yeah, I don't think we've seen enough in the preseason to be like, oh yeah, they look great and gel together yet. So I think we're going to be split on the other two. So I'm going to take Atlanta over the Magic. I do think the Hawks have. And in a similar vein, I'm also taking the Cavs over the Knicks. I think both of those teams, the Hawks and the Cavs, have things to prove in various ways and I think they're going to want to come out with some dominant wins to show that it was all worth it. Whether it was the fact that the Cavs made no moves, barely any moves, and the Hawks made a big move. So we'll see.

[Dave DeFore]

All right, well, the preseason's over. Let the games begin. Guys, we are ready. We're back every single day, guys. Stick around after the break. I went deep with Sam Amick on the Nuggets and how they feel like they're going to win the title this year. Why we can't sleep on the Clippers even though there's an aspiration investigation and why the Kings are probably going to blow it up.

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[Dave DeFore]

All right, preseason's over, training camp's done. We got games coming up here to talk about it and what's going to happen this season. Senior national NBA writer Sam Amick from the Athletic. Sam, what's up, buddy?

[Sam Amick]

Dave Dufour, Great to see you, sir. Happy NBA season.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I'm really pumped to get to some real games. Although preseason had some moments. You got around a little bit in training camp and preseason. I know you saw a Lakers game. You were at their media day, spent some time with the Clippers, spent some time with the Nuggets, spent some time with the Kings. I want to start with the Nuggets. You just had a piece up the other day at the Athletic where you talked about how the organization has sort of restructured in the last six, eight months and started with firing of coach Michael Malone and general manager Calvin Booth and now it seems to have coalesced in this group. That's main purpose in life is to make Nicola Jokic happy. How happy is Nicola Jokic after the summer that the Nuggets had?

[Sam Amick]

I think he's in a good place. It's funny the one you, you asked that day, you feel like if you went into the Nuggets facility, they should maybe have like a little, a little meter on the wall where you can constantly track, you know, the big fella. Like he's that important to what they do. We know how incredible he is. And, and, and so last year from two standpoints was pretty problematic for the Nuggets in the Nikola Jokic business. And it's because the way I see it, they introduced two elements that no organization should want when you're trying to keep a superstar in a good place, which is dysfunction and a lack of depth on the roster. And so as you know, and as I think a lot of listeners know, that the Dysfunction part was you mentioned that they fire Booth and Malone late in the regular season. You know, those two guys have been having a hard time for years, disagreeing about roster construction, disagreeing about culture and about really anything and everything. And that had bled throughout the group and it just left them in the type of place that if you're a guy like Joker, I think even quietly, you know, you're not enjoying that experience and you want the focus to be on maximizing what everybody can bring to the table. So David Allen becomes the coach. Ben Tenser becomes the interim gm. At the time, Ben, just to give folks a taste of who he is, had been with the organization for 16 years. You know, very strong on the salary cap, very strong on relationships, and a guy who is trusted and respected, but also real collaborative, which is something they needed at that moment. To fast forward to the summer after they beat the Clippers in the seven game first round, after they pushed the Thunder in the second round and kind of looked like title contenders again and came so close to getting to the conference finals, they, they elevate Ben to that, you know, top front office position. But they put a guy alongside him named John Wallace. And the, the important part about John is that like Ben, like David Adelman, he has history with the program. He was with Tim Conley in the previous iteration of the Nuggets front office, the one that, that drafted Joker and Jamal Murray and, and you know, went and got Aaron Gordon. So John had this history with the Nuggets, went with Tim to the Timberwolves for three years. They bring John back to essentially be, you know, the, the co. Top executive for the Nuggets and, and just is for another slice of life on John. He was, if you remember Dave, Georgetown point guard.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Sam Amick]

Back in the day, played with Jeff Green, played with Roy Hibbert, hit a big three to help them get to the Final Four back then. It's a fascinating mix, front office wise of, you know, kind of personality of. And really the spirit being teamwork from the top on down, which is what they didn't have up, you know, at that level last year. So all of which is to say made a lot of changes where they wanted to make Joker feel like things were functional, things were collaborative, things were healthy. And again, I think he's in a good place right now.

[Dave DeFore]

Well then they went out and got people too. Right. Like this wasn't just a philosophical change at the top. I think the biggest move, obviously upgrading From Michael Porter Jr. To Cam Johnson, that fit is going to be perfect. Sam, I mean, it's just you add a guy who is a very smart player, always in the right spot, more consistent as a shooter, is not as streaky defensively, just holds up a little bit better. I don't know. How are you feeling about the Nuggets and like, the way they look around Jokic?

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, no, I mean, you're dead on on the court, Dave. I mean, you know, the narrative past couple years was when they lost Bruce Brown after the championship, you know, when KCP went, you know, bye, bye, then the depth was a conversation around the Nuggets for the longest time. And it's no different than any other superstar where you're saying, like, you got to give these guys help. And so, you know, Calvin Booth had tried to go the younger route and essentially saw draft prospects as kind of the, the cheat code, right, to, to, you know, roster construction. And then, you know, with some of those guys, it just hasn't worked out. Now, Christian Brown is an absolute success story, but this new crew goes out and they get, you know, Bruce Brown comes back. So you have that reunion you mentioned. Cam Johnson, Tim Hardaway Jr. You know, who people kind of quietly forget, had some big time moments last year. And they actually see him playing a pretty big role. And specifically they're excited about the relief that he can bring. Jamal Murray. There's, there's, there's a conversation about Jamal. You know, all the depths discussion for the most part focuses on Joker, I think you'd probably agree. And, and I had David Adelman tell me that he actually thinks one of the, the kind of, you know, the, the worst or the, you know, the part in that conversation where people are missing the mark is that Jamal is the one who had to lead the second unit way too often because of the problems with depth.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Sam Amick]

That will not be the case this time around. Last but definitely not least is you got Jonas Valencias. They finally go out and get a legitimate big man who, you know, I. Honestly, Dave, I don't think he's gonna play big minutes every single night. But it, it does give you a guy who, if you need to give Joker a break and try to prioritize the playoffs, you know, Jonas can go out and get you 25.

[Dave DeFore]

How many times did we watch him pull Jokic, you know, with a 20 point lead and he has to come back in because the other team mounted a comeback. And that's to me, where Valentunas comes in huge for them. Right. You can feed them.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, I know there's a lot of.

[Dave DeFore]

Layers yeah, but you can feed him. He can rebound. There's. There's a lot of stuff there that I think Valentina springs. But. Yeah, back to your point.

[Sam Amick]

Well, and to, to kind of bring it back into the whole, the new front office, which is a big part of this story. Man, they, they, they just barely landed the plane, so to speak, when it comes to, to Jonas. You know, when they do the trade with the Kings to get him for Dario Sarich, they almost immediately hear that he actually wants to go play in Greece, which makes no sense because he has an NBA contract, so he had to navigate this situation. They eventually actually flew overseas to spend time with Jonas. You know, I think that was after the deal got done, but they, they settled it down and painted the picture for him of why he was so important. But those are the types of moves that I think people outside looking in had had. You know, kind of been wanting the Nuggets to, to find a way to pull off for quite some time. And it's on paper. We'll see if it works as well as a lot of people think it will, but it does have people feeling like they are legitimately back in the, in that title contending mix right now.

[Dave DeFore]

You mentioned Jamal Murray, and I actually think that he is the overlooked piece of this Nuggets team every single time because of Jokic. Jokic's star shines so bright that we forget about Jamal Murray and how important he is. And I think Jamal Murray has been part of the problem the last couple of seasons too. It's not just lack of depth. It's that Jamal Murray has come into camp not in good shape, dealt with injuries that maybe are because of that, I don't know, you know, but it takes him a while to ramp up. Is this the year that they're going to get off? Like, great start. Jamal Murray comes out ready to go and, and it makes their season smoother because it does seem like the last couple seasons they just haven't, they haven't looked like the Nuggets to start the year.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, no, that's fair. I chatted with Jamal in, in San Diego, which I forget if we mentioned that they, they did their camp down in San Diego and you know, it's one of those team building type things. They stayed at this incredible hotel right on the water and, and you know, the vibe was good. And so when I talked with Jamal, he seemed to be like, joker in a very good place. First of all, from a rest standpoint, you know, you're talking about last summer having Played in the Olympics and had a disappointing finish with the Canadian team. But even individually, he did not have the role that he thought he was going to have. He didn't play very well. He dealt with injury. He talked about how health last season. It definitely had a carryover effect into the Nuggets season. Once that got rolling and he's feeling really good right now. This is right up your alley, Dave. I don't know if you knew this about him. He's. He's an MMA type guy.

[Dave DeFore]

He likes to be something violent.

[Sam Amick]

He likes to throw those hands a little bit. Yeah, I asked him, I was like, man, you got. So you got hands, huh? He's like, man, I got hands. I got feet. Like, I got all of it. So he just. He's in a good place. He's a dad now, which I know he's enjoying, and we'll see kind of, you know, what that translates to on the floor. But I think at minimum the rest for him and not having the international experience like he had a year ago has got to help.

[Dave DeFore]

I think it's an important season for Jamal Murray in, In Denver. I just think that he's got a. Like this. He should be an All Star this year, and that should be the expectations that he has that sort of season in. Go ahead. I don't want to cut you off. I hear you. It's funny.

[Sam Amick]

I think I'm at peace with the. Like, I'm at peace with his legacy is like, no, he does. I don't think he has to be an All Star. I think he has to be the guy who was an. An All Star in the playoffs like he was when they won the championship. Like he was remarkable. I just legitimately don't know if for some reason he is not trying to question him, but like, I. I don't know if he can play at that level from beginning to end. And if you're the Nuggets and you got to pick one, you're certainly going to pick the back end of the season.

[Dave DeFore]

I would agree with that. I. I would agree with that. But part of this is because he's constantly dealt with these little injuries that he's picked up, you know, during regular season. I, I just think if he can find a way to avoid those, he's got the talent to do it. Okay, last little bit about the Nuggets, because in your piece, I found it interesting that you brought up Nikola Jokic. His contract ends in 2027. Okay. I have never once thought that Nicole Jokic would leave the Denver Nuggets and go to another NBA team. But is there a concern that he might leave the Nuggets in a couple of years?

[Sam Amick]

They are very confident. They. They get, you know, understandably, they wish this wasn't part of the conversation. I always push back by saying, it's pretty simple. When your superstar signs the extension, then people quiet down and don't talk about it. So Joker did not sign it this summer, but it made all the sense in the world financially for him to wait. Right? Thing that got. I think if you were going to nitpick his messaging when he was directly asked about whether he plans on signing the extension next summer, was he kind of went off into this riff about how he thinks these contracts are the reward for the work you do and that they basically work themselves out. He kind of did dodge the question a little bit, but, you know. But then, yes, let's make sure people know. He said, I plan on being. It was kind of charming. He said, nugget forever. And then he questioned himself, and he was like, nuggets forever. I don't know. Like, he was trying to figure out how to say it. You know, English being the second language. And he said he wants to be there if he doesn't sign an extension next summer. Like, if we are talking a year from now and he doesn't. I mean, then there's no way. It's not a conversation because now you're in the last year of your deal. So it was a little strange that he wouldn't just say, yeah, that's probably what I'll do, or whatever. But, you know, they are very confident. He again, seems to be in a good place. I think the only part where I have continued to monitor this situation is that it's like everything we said at the start of this conversation, Dave, like, it was an extremely dysfunctional year last year, and again, the roster, you know, was lacking depth in the kind of way that made life hard on him and. And made his workload a lot bigger than I think he hoped for it to be. Those are the kinds of things that, if left unchecked, are going to create issues and eventually could change the mood of a guy like Joker. But to their credit, they. It's kind of what the entire story was about. They went to great lengths to try to have a culture reset and to fix that roster, and we'll see now if they got it back in a good direction.

[Dave DeFore]

All right, let's. Let's go to one of the other teams with title aspirations, the Los Angeles Clippers, you spent a little bit of time with them. They made some big changes. You know, obviously moving on from Norm Powell, bringing in John Collins, Brook Lopez. I mean, they got bigger. I think that their big takeaway from losing to the Nuggets was they needed to be bigger because Aaron Gordon and Nicola Jokic are huge. I think that they look on paper like third or fourth best team in the West. How did you feel, like, what did you come away feeling about the Clippers after you spent some time with them?

[Sam Amick]

Well, so I hadn't seen him in person since the controversy broke, and obviously that had been something that we'd focused on a lot, reported on a lot. And even from a human experience, Dave, it was. It was almost comical to. They played the Kings. I live near Sacramento, and I walk in the building and I see all these Clippers people that I haven't seen since last season. And it kind of reminded you, like, oh, yeah, there's a basketball team here. There's, you know, it's not just, you know, spreadsheets talking about where the money went between different, you know, massive companies.

[Dave DeFore]

And.

[Sam Amick]

And, you know, that controversy had been the focus. When I turned my attention to the hoops, I just got reminded that, like, damn, this roster is really good. That the depth that you talked about, I mean, the night that they played the Kings, John Collins went off, off the bench, I think at 24, you know, Brook Lopez had a really good night when I spent a few minutes in the locker room, chatted with Chris Paul for a little bit, maybe to Zubac, and tried to pick their brains about the, you know, the feeling. In light of all the focus that had been around their team, I was struck by the fact that, like, if you. To say that they're not distracted by it is an understatement. They almost forget it's there. And the mood again, was. Was. Was really good. And they feel like they have something pretty dangerous. Nobody's predicting a championship here, but James Harden seems to be excited on the way out. You know, I kind of made a comment to him about how good they looked and, And. And he smiled and he goes, man, we don't even have Brad or Bogey yet. Now that's Bradley Beal, right? Don Bogdanovich. So the depth and I, I know we keep. This is like the depth episode. We keep talking about depth with all these teams, but the Indiana OKC finals showed you that, like, you know, the way the game is being played right now is his depth is playing a big part. And just having A bunch of guys who could be dangerous. And the Clippers have that. They have a fantastic coach in Tyloo. They got Jeff Van Gundy going crazy, you know, controlling the defense on the sideline. And so, I mean, it was just one night. It was just the preseason. They. But they put a whooping on the Kings and have overall looked really good and I think they're going to be dangerous.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, look, the, the NBA investigation aside, what do you think about Kawhi Leonard? Like, do they have a plan for him this season? Yeah, do they have a plan for him this season? Like, what's the expectation as far as number of games go? You know, I know that they, they want him ready for the playoffs, right? Like, that's been their blueprint since he got there. This is a guy that hasn't really been able to put together a, you know, it's 65 game season. And so last year, you know, he shows up after the surgery, starts the season, what I think he winds up playing like 37 games or something in a regular season. I'm sure that they want more than that this year. But, you know, did they land on any sort of a number or did you get an idea?

[Sam Amick]

I didn't. I wish I had a great answer for you there. I, you know, I mean, my goodness, right the way he looks right now and I'm sure this would be a mistake, but, you know, I'd be tempted to, to go old school and just let him play. That doesn't work for Kawhi. This is, you know, the captain of load management and mostly with good reason. So I don't know how many games we're talking. I will say that the writer in me who does enjoy, you know, storylines being interesting is it would make for a hell of a time for Kawhi to be. To go Iron man style and to just absolutely, you know, be kind of a wrecking ball in the league, basketball wise. While this investigation was going on, obviously the entire investigation is focused on the, the kind of, the, the existential question of, you know, not only what was given to him and what wasn't, but really kind of this philosophical thing of like, is he worth all the trouble? You know what I mean? Like, if you go back to 2019 and getting him free agency and having to get Paul George because that's who Kawhi wanted. And this has been an unfulfilling era for the Clippers after a time of unpro, you know, unprecedented excitement for what they thought they were going to be. We are all unofficially I think acting as if, you know, we already know the ending to this basketball storyline, that they, they didn't get the job done, but they're still here. So that's the part to me that thinks it would be wild if, if he was an absolute monster, if James played well, if, if they were as good as I think they could be, that would be something.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, Kawhi, you know, his playoff run, I will say he clearly wasn't 100% in, in the playoffs. His. His shots, the shots that he's taking are so hard. Ben Taylor thinking basketball did a really good breakdown on how, just how much difficulty he had. But also, he's so good, it didn't really matter. Like, the defense was all over him. He still was super effective. I. And I'm. We were talking in our season previews, the wildest outcome from this is Kawhi Leonard plays 65 games and is like an MVP candidate because the Clippers are really good. You know, as far as punishments go for the Clippers, I don't think we, any of us really expect much. I'm really excited to see them play basketball because I do think they're going to be a fun and interesting team. How's the Bradley Beal fit going to work for them? I mean, you know, they've talked a lot about how they need him to play some defense and, you know, we haven't seen Bradley Beal do that in a while. Like, what's that going to look like?

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I kind of walked away. You know, listen, part of it is the cognitive dissonance of like, I, we haven't seen Brad for so long. I don't even know what Brad is anymore right now. Again, just preseason, just one game. But I kind of walked away going, all right, well, it's a good problem to have, but I don't know if they need Brad, you know, now over the course of 82 games and, you know, and having a guy who can shoot the lights out, for sure, that'll come in handy. But I think you need to see where he's at first. I do think he's going to play soon. In fact, I thought, Excuse me. I think it was reported that he was going to play in the final preseason game. But, you know, that's another one where even beyond what he can give you on the floor, I think James certainly wanted him there. Kawhi wanted him there. And, and he's a guy with a lot of respect around the league. And I think, you know, his friends and teammates would like to see him have some kind of renaissance here. So we'll see how it goes.

[Dave DeFore]

Before we get out of here. Can I ask you, what are the Sacramento Kings doing? They sign Russell Westbrook to a one year minimum deal, which raises their floor. Just from a personality standpoint, I think Russell Westbrook walks in, raises their floor a little bit. They signed Keegan Murray to a five year extension. Good young player, good asset. Are they going to blow this thing up this year? I mean, you know, I know scouts have been attending their games because they're looking at all these guys that might be available, but it just feels like they're not even really stuck in the middle anymore. They're kind of stuck backside of the middle and that's, that's even worse.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, I mean, they, they just, they've got a bunch of tough contracts to move and it's a, it's a strange time, a transition time, because, you know, like Scott Perry, the gm, now, long time NBA executive from the Knicks and the Pistons and the Magic, you know, Scott didn't build this thing and now has to figure out, you know, Zach Levine's got two years left, almost $100 million. DeMar DeRozan is kind of on an expiring. He's guaranteed about 10 million next season. You know, demonic Sabonis, you're still building around, but I think if somebody threw the world at him, they would certainly listen. So it's a matter of like, it's, you know, they're preaching patience with the fan base. You know, I think that's partly why you go ahead and just let Doug Christie try to see what he can do as a head coach. You know, I reported the other day that his contract, it's a two plus one, you know, you know, on the lower end, money wise to where, you know, it just feels like this is a, this is a kind of passing the time portion of the program where. And Russ plays into that. Like, honestly, I wrote the other day, it's fine. Like, you know, this team is headed towards irrelevance anyway and not even trying to be funny, it's just, I think the fans will probably enjoy watching Russell Westbrook play. Like, you know, knowing that the ceiling on this season is going to be pretty low. And in terms of the longer view, it's just a question of are they going to be able to get off any of these contracts in a way that helps them pivot more quickly, or are they literally going to just have to like, buy their time for the Next two years while these contracts come off the books, because a lot of talented, accomplished veterans that I don't think are going to be able to. To make a lot of noise together and, and who, you know, we'll see what kind of market these guys have. Malik Monk, obviously, was part of the talks with the warriors to get Jonathan Kaminga. I mean, even the Kaminga subplot, Dave.

[Dave DeFore]

Is that still on the table?

[Sam Amick]

Maybe, you know, well, the warriors don't want Monk, and, And so that part, you know, is a hurdle. But. Yes, but I also, not only is Kaminga and that pursuit still on the table, you know, and that'll have to be a February thing, but that shows you ideally, you know, what Scott and his front office are trying to do was, you know, lock up Keegan Murray because he's a young prospect, and then start adding to it. They were hoping to, to bring Kaminga in. They were going to move Keegan to the three, which is something they, they know that he would like, and then you'd kind of be. You'd have a little bit of momentum. Now that didn't happen. And, and so now they got to be patient again. But it's, I mean, listen, it's all. A lot of it anyway, is the product of the de' Aaron Fox trademark last year, where it still remains very confusing. Why not only, like, okay, you decide to trade a guy like that, but if they, they went after a guy like Zach Levine, that did not help you pivot and really put you in this little purgatory session here is that was the previous front office. You can debate who was pulling the strings there. I mean, on paper it was Monty McNair with Wes Wilcox and. But, you know, Vivek Ronald is, you know, was definitely very involved in that move and, and it's put him in a tough spot.

[Dave DeFore]

You. You see. Do you know any teams that might be interested in Levine or DeRozan? Have you heard anything?

[Sam Amick]

Levine? No, DeRozan. I just think it's, it's like, how does he look the next couple months? You have to, you know, when a guy's 36, you're going to have to, like, make sure he's good still. I mean, Dave, I looked at this the other day. He's averaged 20 plus for 12 straight seasons.

[Dave DeFore]

It's amazing.

[Sam Amick]

Like, it's crazy. And so I think, I think he was 22 last year. Like, if he's still the bucket getter at 36 and he looks pretty good, then. Yeah, like one of these playoff teams might come try to get him. You know, I think he's the easiest one to have the conversation about Zach. The optics around Zach could be even more challenging this season because Doug Christie is really trying to get this group to play defense and trying to get them to do the types of things that they're not really known for doing. You know, I told somebody the other day, really, Dennis Schroeder and Keegan are the only ones with any defensive credentials among their main group. And Doug is really trying to have that be the thing that, you know, that distinguishes them and helps them in the west. And I just don't see it. These guys are not young, moldable prospects. These guys have been doing this for a minute.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I'd just be trying to just get as many buckets as you can and hope.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, hope.

[Dave DeFore]

Hope they miss on the other end. All right, Sam, thank you for hanging out, helping us kick off opening week here at the NBA Daily. Guys, go and read Sam over at the Athletic. Thank you guys for listening like and subscribe this video on YouTube. Give us a five star rating on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with more of the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Sam Amick]

Well, I dig the mattress and I.

[Dave DeFore]

Want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you.

[Sam Amick]

Teach me so Dana.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared.

[Sam Amick]

I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

The new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate ultimate pro camera system.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow. Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to.

[Sam Amick]

Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[LinkedIn Jobs Advertiser]

Nice.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Dave DeFore]

T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Sam Amick]

So what are we having for launch?

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Dave DeFore]

The 24 month credit is on experience.

[Sam Amick]

Beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 advice next year charge credit.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

Send and balance due.

[Dave DeFore]

If you pay off earlier, Cancel Finance agreement.

[Zena Kada]

IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and.

[Dave DeFore]

New line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based.

[Zena Kada]

On analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence.

[Dave DeFore]

Data 182025 Visit T mobile.comparley Italiano if.

[Zena Kada]

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[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser (cont.)]

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