Inside the Kawhi trade to the Raptors

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Inside the Kawhi Trade to the Raptors
Date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esperaheny (Esfandiar Baraheni), Eric Koreen (Toronto Raptors beat reporter)

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Episode Overview

This episode dissects the swirling headlines and behind-the-scenes maneuvering of the blockbuster Kawhi Leonard trade from the Los Angeles Clippers to the Toronto Raptors. The hosts explore the holdup due to an NBA investigation, the potential ramifications for both teams and Kawhi, comparisons to past precedents, implications for the 2026-27 Raptors roster, and if this team can contend in the modern Eastern Conference. The conversation is candid, insightful, and peppered with the usual humor among The Athletic's NBA experts.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

State of the Trade & Ongoing Investigation

[02:30]

• Eric Koreen outlined the current limbo:
  The trade is “on hold,” due to a league investigation. Both teams and the league issued statements expressing uncertainty, with the only "news" being a loose hope the investigation resolves in “the next few weeks.”

  “The Raptors, based on what the league told them, which is if something happens to Kawhi Leonard as a result of this investigation, you will have to deal with the fallout of that…which makes some logical sense.” (Eric Koreen, 03:14)

• Both teams are eager to finalize things but won’t do so “until the investigation is over,” as the Raptors risk too much if they officially acquire Kawhi before potential punitive fallout.

  “There was some light pressure being put on the league to say, ‘You want to wrap up that investigation so we can move on with our lives.’” (Eric Koreen, 04:47)

Timeline & Trade Processing

[04:51]

• Esperaheny asks why the trade moved forward if the investigation was expected.
• Eric: “What does ‘processed’ mean in this?”—notes the sequence: the league flagged the Raptors pre-trade, but perhaps, “in slightly more direct language,” after both teams agreed to terms.
• The Raptors smartly paused after realizing the risk:

  “Why should we give up two firsts, a pick swap and two seconds and Brandon Ingram and Grady Dick for a guy whose contract might be voided…?” (Eric Koreen, 07:40)

Potential Penalties: What Awaits Clippers & Kawhi?

[08:13]

• Dave asks about possible punishments.
• Eric sees contract voiding for Kawhi as a “nuclear option”—highly unlikely but not unprecedented (cites Joe Smith/T’Wolves case).
• Team side: Expect “draft picks being penalized, fines, maybe bans from team operations,” especially since “ignorance is not really a viable defense.”
• Player side:

  “Why should a player be punished for asking for something? ... ultimately it’s the Clippers who agreed to it.” (Eric Koreen, 12:51) But—Kawhi “should not be putting his team in jeopardy of having this sort of thing blow up in their face.”

Notable Moment:

“He didn’t get, or his team didn’t get enough criticism for that.” (Eric Koreen, 13:50)

• Investigation leaks are nonexistent—even “people much more powerful than me do not know.”

Historical Comparisons: Joe Smith Precedent

[09:09]

• Deep dive into the Joe Smith case, where prior contract shenanigans led to voiding and unique free agency circumstances.
• Eric: “It’s almost the inverse of this situation. ... What the Clippers and Kawhi Leonard are accused of doing is, ‘We’ll pay you as much as you can, and find a way to pay you extra.’” (Eric Koreen, 09:30)

Roster Construction & Fit: Raptors Outlook

[17:16]

• If trade goes through and suspension for Kawhi is minimal:

  • Probable starting five: Kawhi Leonard, Scottie Barnes, Emmanuel Quickley, RJ Barrett, Jakob Poeltl
  • Colin Murray Boyles likely to log more total minutes than Poeltl due to flexibility.

  “There’s just more roles in which [Colin] can sort of fit than Poeltl.” (Eric Koreen, 17:53)

• Defensively, “it’s a really nice fit to add Kawhi,” who can still defend well and help offensively through gravity and spacing.

• Dave:

  “One of the things this team missed during the playoffs — they didn’t have a guy who could get a bucket. Kawhi doesn’t necessarily make guys around him better directly...but his gravity is going to help every single person, especially Scottie Barnes.” (Dave Dufour, 18:04 – 18:42)

• Kawhi’s presence = more space, more respect from defenses, and tangible improvement over Brandon Ingram.

Style of Play: “Vision 6-9” and Ball Movement

[21:21]

• Reminiscent of old Raptors’ “Vision 6-9,” but with added effectiveness via Kawhi’s skillset.

• Eric:

  “He reads the initial situation just very quickly.” (Eric Koreen, 21:21)

• Secondary passers like Barnes, Barrett, Colin Murray Boyles will benefit greatly.

• 4-forward lineups (RJ, Kawhi, Scottie, Colin) will be switchable and physically tough:

  “Strong switchability defensively with those four guys is going to be kind of nuts.” (Dave Dufour, 22:45)

• RJ Barrett “can guard up” (Eric, 23:17); likened to “James Harden, good post defender…he’s stout.” (Dave, 23:24)

Offense & Playmaking

[23:47]

• Defense at the point is a minor concern (Quickley’s abilities debated).
• Likely to see “more of playmaking Scottie,” with Quickley as a superior shooter and secondary ball-handler.
• Kawhi–Scottie two-man game: stylistically works, with Kawhi’s slow pace counterpoised by Scottie’s preference for speed, and both excellent in transition.

Defensive Versatility & Playoff Matchups

[26:47]

• Quick guard defense will rely on Jamal Shead and Jacobe Walter, particularly in playoff matchups against quicker perimeter players.
• The versatility of Barnes, Barrett, and Kawhi will allow creative defensive schemes.

Championship Ceiling: 2026-27 Raptors

[27:20]

• Parallels to the 2019 championship team?

  • Limited similarities, per Eric:

    “I don't think they're overwhelming…Scotty Barnes is kind of a Kyle Lowry/Pascal Siakam hybrid offensively.” (Eric Koreen, 27:48)

• The 2019 team had several future All-Stars, whereas the current roster is more unproven.

• Eastern Conference standing:

  “I wouldn't put them at like the top, top tier…that might just be as we sit here, right now, the Knicks to me…and maybe that's just recency bias…but I don't think they're like necessarily much below your Boston's or your Phillies [Sixers] or your Indianas…The best version of that team can be right there in that conversation.” (Eric Koreen, 28:46 – 30:01)

• Poeltl's minutes and health are potential limiting factors; Colin Murray Boyles might play as a small-ball five.

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Memorable Quotes & Noteworthy Moments

• “You look like you’d just kind of been through the ringer.”
  — Dave Dufour to Eric Koreen, describing his stress during Summer League. (02:01)

• “First call about it was: this is hilarious…some people were like, ‘it’s not funny.’ No, it is funny.”
  — Eric Koreen, on the bizarre unfolding of the saga. (30:53)

• “He’s a fun guy, I don’t know if you’d heard.”
  — Eric Koreen, dryly referencing Kawhi’s famous persona as the segment wraps up. (31:06)

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• [02:30] — Trade status & league investigation explained
• [04:51] — Timeline, how the trade nearly proceeded before pause
• [08:13] — Expected punishments for Clippers & Kawhi
• [09:09] — Precedent: Joe Smith contract-voiding saga
• [17:16] — 2026-27 Raptors lineup and rotations
• [18:04] — Fit of Kawhi with current team, offensive/defensive impact
• [21:21] — Ball movement and Vision 6-9 redux
• [26:47] — Defensive flexibility, guard matchup challenges
• [27:20] — Comparisons to the 2019 championship team
• [28:46] — Raptors’ championship ceiling in new-look East

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The hosts maintain a mix of analytic rigor and wry amusement, balancing hard news with winking self-deprecation—especially as the Raptors once again find themselves at the center of NBA chaos. Their conclusion is realistic but optimistic: if healthy, the Raptors could be in the mix, but nothing is assured until the investigation resolves and Kawhi is truly, finally on the floor in Toronto red.

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For more, read Eric Koreen’s coverage at The Athletic.

(End of content summary. All non-content sections, ads, and sponsor messages skipped.)

Transcript

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[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave Dufour, here with Esperaheny and Eric Karine, our Toronto Raptors beat reporter at the Athletic. Lots to talk about, especially Kawhi. Good morning, everybody. What is up, Eric? You had quite a day.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah, no, it's exactly what I thought was going to happen on the first day of summer league. Not to date this, but yeah, I was just walking around our hotel repeatedly putting my hands through my hair. So thank God I got a haircut before summer league or else. You guys are familiar with the occasional state of my hair. It would have. It would have been pretty ridiculous.

[Dave Dufour]

But when I. Look, when I saw you walking up before we were recording just now, you look like you had just kind of been through the ringer. Like, in a sense, I mean, really, like, wow. I read. Well, I read your story. No, you look.

[Eric Koreen]

You look terrible.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, no, that's not what I meant. But you just had this look on your face. Like.

[Eric Koreen]

I mean, that's. Friends and family would say that's probably standard issue. S has been around me at Raptors games to hear a few sides, I'm sure.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay, so walk me through exactly where we're at right now with the Kawhi trade from the Clippers to the Raptors.

[Eric Koreen]

So the trade is on hold. We saw both team statements and then the league's main, let's say missives were about saying we don't know when this trade or not, the Trade when the investigation, which is the holdup is going to be done. I think they did put a, hopefully in the next few weeks sort of vibe into that, which is, which is honestly news because there had been no timeline before and now that is the, the whiff of a timeline. But the Raptors, based on what the league told them, which is if something happens to Kawhi Leonard as a result of this investigation, you will have to deal with the fallout of that consequences, which makes some logical sense. If you have already acquired him and his contract and a trade call has gone through to make that official, you

[Esperaheny]

sort of punishment about the contract, you

[Eric Koreen]

sort of can't unring that bell. I think like something we can't say enough is like they will not be held responsible for whatever the Clippers did and their side of the penalty. And I think like some of the initial wording and reports might have confused that fact. But for now, the Raptors were the ones who decided, let's wait until the investigation is over. And I think both teams put out their statements to one, like, explain why this deal hadn't gone through because July 6th had, had passed quite a few days ago. And maybe there was some light pressure being put on the league to say, you want to wrap up that investigation so we can move on with our lives. Like, I, I don't think there's any reason to believe the league is going to, to speed up a process that has taken this long. But to the extent that the teams maybe think they can influence that, they're probably trying to. Yeah, but it's on hold. That's the short answer.

[Esperaheny]

The follow up to that I have is like, you know, this trade was reported, I guess at the time that we're recording this, like 10 days ago.

[Eric Koreen]

June 30th.

[Esperaheny]

June 30th. And I think the ultimate reaction is, okay, then why did this trade start to get processed even though this hurdle was eventually something that they had to come across.

[Eric Koreen]

So, I mean, what does the word processed mean in this?

[Dave Dufour]

Well, okay. In the world, like recorded.

[Commercial Narrator]

All right.

[Dave Dufour]

But yeah, this stuff gets. I mean, it's not leaked, it's released. Okay. Through the media.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Eric Koreen]

And.

[Dave Dufour]

And it comes out. And is that part of the problem here?

[Eric Koreen]

I would say it's a big part. I think the league, when they intervened and as of today when we're talking, I had a column go up basically saying the league should have crossed this, should have been prepared to cross this bridge. Like, we should never have gotten here. We can get into that in a Bit. The league flagged this to the Raptors, saying you would be responsible. As far as far as I know, that was a few days before the trade was agreed to. And. And I think as soon as this, after the second round of the draft was done, that was a Wednesday. June 30th was a Tuesday. So that's like six days. Yeah, somebody. There had been some reports that, like, oh, Kawhi's old teams are sniffing around. So likely sometime in that range, the league told the Raptors what they told them. Obviously, they both parties had advanced to a stage where they felt comfortable that I's and T's had been crossed from their end. It works with the cap and works with the cba. Therefore, the deal is done. And then at some point after that, and this is not reporting, this is just using my brain, that point was either emphasized, underlined, just brought up again, maybe in slightly more direct language. And perhaps there was an element of, we think this is going to get resolved soon, which I don't have a lot of time for, because there's never been any indication that they've really been out of timeline. But that gave them enough pause, the Raptors to say, okay, well, why should we give up two firsts, a pick swap and two seconds and Brandon Ingram and Grady Dick for a guy whose contract might be voided or like a guy who might be suspended for however long? So it makes total sense that the Raptors would now pause. I think the timeline is interesting and we'll probably never know the full details of both exactly what was said when and how the tone from the league was different in the trade negotiations compared to in between them agreeing and, like, leaking the news of the trade being completed and July 6th, when theoretically they could have finalized.

[Esperaheny]

Well, now we just need another investigation about this investigation.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay, so let's talk about a potential punishment, whether it's for the Clippers, whether it's for Kawhi, whether it's for both. I mean, I assume that if. If the. The investigation finds that the Clippers did something wrong, that they are definitely getting punished. Kawhi is the one that it. We may not know. I think with the Players association and, and their track record, we know that any sort of punishment that comes his way, they're going to appeal and they're going to fight it. And, you know, let's say he's suspended for games instead of having his contract voided. Like, what kind of punishment have you thought about for the Clippers?

[Esperaheny]

Well, also, I mean, even on top of that, like, do we think his contract would get voided?

[Dave Dufour]

I don't, I don't see it happening. Like, I, I feel like that's a, I mean, that's a nuclear option. That feels a little bit outside the bounds of the cba, but I, I'm not sure.

[Eric Koreen]

Well, I mean, the reason the contract being voided has come up is because it's happened before. Right. It happened with Joe Smith who signed three one year minimum deals under the promise of, hey, big payday coming later. And you know, they stuffed three contracts and stuffed a future contract and drawer somewhere. And, and so like, it's almost the inverse of this situation, which is like, we'll pay you way too little now to pay you more later. Whereas what the Clippers and Kawhi Leonard are accused of doing is we'll pay you as much as you can. And by the way, we'll find you a way to pay you extra more for the Clippers. Yeah. Think about free agents. And I believe the 2021 Ext. Was a max extension, whereas the 2024, maybe it was, it was less than it had to be. Although, you know, still, who knows, right? So before getting to that, I'll just say investigation bending and that thing is not leaking. Like, I, you know, people much more powerful than me, which is almost everybody, do not know.

[Esperaheny]

So.

[Eric Koreen]

But the types of things I've thought about are like, you know, nothing that would surprise people. Draft pick, you know, draft picks being penalized, fines which you know, only go so far when you're dealing with Steve Ballmer. You know, you could see a scenario in which like, to whatever extent, you know, Ballmer or Lawrence Frank were in the know. And even if they're not in the know, they run the organization. So ignorance is not really a viable defense there. Could be banned from, you know, team operations for a year or two years or who knows what. Like, I don't think anybody's going to be like banned from the league forever from this. That would be a surprise. But that's sort of what I've thought on the team side, the player side. Like when I first heard this, two things happened. Two things were true at the same time for me. First of all, like, why should a player be punished for asking for something? It is like, it is, sure it's the player agent's responsibility to know the CBA and to opt within it, but like a player just asking for something and getting it, like, it just seems like it's up to the team just to say, well, it was, it was

[Esperaheny]

reported back in 2019 that you know, Toronto Star reported. Yes. But that the Raptors were also in a situation where Kawhi was asking for more or Kawhi's representation was asking for more and that that didn't shake out the way that they wanted us.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Eric Koreen]

And so I'm sort of like on one side I'm like I don't really care what he asked for. I don't think he should really be penalized for that. It is the Clippers who agreed to it. It's the Clippers who ultimately knowingly or executed the deal. But Kawhi still had to sign it. So I think and the thing I think that Kawhi should have been criticized for throughout and he has an incredibly complicated family history which we don't have time to into here because that's a long conversation. But like if he wants to play basketball and he wants to win, he should not be putting his team in jeopardy of having this sort of thing blow up in their face like as like the best player on his team. Like do you really want to cause this sort of headache for your team? And I'm all for players getting as much as they can while they can. Their careers are short, they drive the product, they drive the revenue. But like this is really just, you know, whether it's a black cloud for a whole year or like literally leading to team building penalties, it's like you're actually hurting your team. And I think like he didn't get or his team didn't get enough criticism for that. Yeah, the penalties that he should face, I mean it depends on how in the know that his team and, and he were. I think the Clippers should face stronger penalties than him but I don't think it's unreasonable to, to suspend him for a certain amount of time. And I don't even think like if it's. If like if all the documents can be found that his contract is voided and like that's the thing, we don't really know what would happen then like the natural conclusion is oh, he becomes an unrestricted free agent and consign wherever. But that is just an assumption. Like we don't know that. Ye believe the wording from the Joe Smith case when his contract was voided is they still, the Wolves still had to release him and he ended up sign. I don't know if anybody knows as I was just reading it yesterday, signed a one year, I think minimum deal with Detroit and then resigned with Minnesota the following summer. A six year deal. Part of me was like, was that just the deal that was promised all

[Esperaheny]

around Smith even good?

[Eric Koreen]

He was, yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Maryland. Look, he was great. I was not like this was before my, a little bit and I grew up in ACC country, so like, yeah, Joe Smith was very good.

[Eric Koreen]

You know, he was the first pick in the, in the draft with Rasheed, Jerry Stackhouse, Antonio McDyess, Kevin Garnett. Like those were 2, 3, 4 and 5. Not in that order. But Smith was first. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he, I think he ended up as more of a role player in the NBA, but he was like a useful role player.

[Dave Dufour]

That happens a lot, though.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, we're gonna take a quick break and when we we're going to ask about this year's wrappers.

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[Dave Dufour]

Hey, hold up. This is your minute, your day to play, to make, to move, to move through, to explore. It's your body to rest, to nourish, to grow. It's your mind. You know, it's your place, your life to love, to dream, to change. It's your world. To understand the New York Times, find out [e-mail] yourworld. All right, looking ahead to the 2026, 2027 season, I, I think very successful last season with this young team. I think Scotty Barnes really emerged, especially in the playoffs. And we're going to operate under the assumption that this trade goes through. Kawhi is going to play. If there is a suspension, it's minimal. It's not something that's really going to, you know, throw their wrench in their season. So we'll just do that.

[Esperaheny]

Might even help them flexibility.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, well, honestly, get them under the. I mean, you know, he's going to miss some games anyway. Like, maybe this is a, you know, if he gets suspended, it. The load management, however we want to look at it. But let's assume that Kawhi is a part of this team. All right. What. What is the starting lineup look like? I mean, obviously Kawhi, Scotty Barnes are out there.

[Esperaheny]

What.

[Dave Dufour]

What does the rest of it look like?

[Eric Koreen]

I would assume right now that it would be Kawhi, Scotty, Barnes, Emmanuel Quickley, RJ Barrett and Jakob Pertle. But I would also assume that Colin Murray boils plays more minutes overall than jakoblade.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, okay.

[Esperaheny]

I would agree. Yeah.

[Eric Koreen]

I mean, that's a. That's a loose assumption, but there's just more roles in which he can. More lineups in which he can sort of fit than hurdle.

[Dave Dufour]

So, I mean, like the, the effect, obviously, defensively, it's a really nice fit to add Kawhi. I mean, he's another guy that can guard. I mean, he's. He's not the defender that he used to be, but he's still pretty good and, you know, he doesn't really have to be on the ball all that much. So great offensively. One of the things that this team missed during the playoffs, like, they didn't have a guy, a guy that could get a bucket, get a shot off. Now, Kawhi doesn't necessarily make guys around him better directly. Like, he's not a huge assist guy. He's not going to break down the defense and make a pass. But I do think his gravity is going to help every single person, especially Scotty Barnes.

[Eric Koreen]

I mean, how could it not, right? Like, that was the idea with Brandon Ingram. And like, I don't think they're that similar other than they like to go and choose sort of similar spots sometimes and operate. But like, Kawhi is a better offensive basketball player, better defensive basketball player than Brandon Ingram, and Kawhi is really going to be a guy who you get at least a shade of a second guy on if he's isolating or working from the post, whatever. So I think as long as he's a willing passer, which I don't think is a real question with Kawhi, and certainly his instincts are, you know, probably sharper than Ingram's about when to get off the ball, it's just going to create More space for a team that badly needs more space. Like you saw in the playoffs especially when Poeltl was on the floor. But really all the time to some degree and they didn't have quickly in the Cleveland series. There is just no room anywhere for playoff teams. This was one of the lowest volume and lowest percentage 3 point shooting teams. So KWA is shooting on its own without any of the other factors. Will do a lot. But also he's just a real dude who people are afraid of going one on one and that can only help. Whereas Brandon Ingram, great tough shot maker, you know, can certainly have big games. But I think more often than not teams are willing to let him go to work and stay home. And if he hits an 18 foot contested shot over Dean Wade, that's cool. Like this is oversimplifying it but yeah I think like the short version is he has to create more space for this team because he's just one of the most dangerous one on one players there is.

[Dave Dufour]

One of the things we talked about a lot last year s. Yep. And I want your take on this is that Brandon Ingram on the offensive end by himself in isolation, in a vacuum, positive offensive player. But for the offense as a whole the ball sticks a little bit with Brandon Ingram. Other guys can't really cut off of him because he's. He is actually a better passer than I think we saw in. In Toronto.

[Esperaheny]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

And like part of this, I don't know why, you know it didn't translate there. But I think Kawhi there with. With his ability like 0.5 stuff. I mean he's very good at that getting off the ball when he gets it right.

[Eric Koreen]

That that would be the first point point I would bring up is like the guy started with the spurs and that was like when people started to understand what point five basketball was. That doesn't mean he hasn't evolved and played a different style since then obviously. But he, he reads the initial situation just very quickly.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. He's also to that point is such a better pick and roll ball handler. Like the three point shooting just gives him an extra two or three feet of space that allows him to operate but also I think will open up the floor a little bit for Yaka Purdle. One area where the Raptors let a lot left a lot of meat on the bone was just like the bi Yak connection last year of course because Yak was very very injured. But you just didn't get to see that at all. And I think part of that was because Everything was so snug, Right. With Kawhi as a pull up shooter, his ability to space the floor, especially on the ball, is just going to open up so much for Yak in that short roll area. Scotty Barnes in that short roll area column. Murray Boyles, to your point, in that short roll area. They have a bunch of these secondary connective passers that I think can kind of weave together a lot of things that. That Kawhi can create for them. It's also. Can I just ask you part of this? Because the funny thing, we always hear about the Raptors and it's a. It's rightfully so. They draft the same typ. Okay. Yeah. This is like Project 69 again and Vision 6 9. Right. But this version might work a little bit better.

[Dave Dufour]

I was about to say, listen, one of the things that I've thought about a lot is rj Kawhi, Scotty and Colin Murray Boyles at the same time. Right? That's four guys who are not dissimilar in size. Strong switchability defensively with. With those four guys is going to be kind of nuts.

[Esperaheny]

Rj, not so much.

[Dave Dufour]

But listen, RJ holds up physically.

[Esperaheny]

But yeah, yeah, he can physically.

[Eric Koreen]

The strength end of it. He's going to do well on the.

[Dave Dufour]

And I think it'll.

[Eric Koreen]

Quickness end of it is where the question is.

[Dave Dufour]

But it allows him to actually go. I think he gets to guard up.

[Esperaheny]

He can guard up, which.

[Eric Koreen]

And in the Cleveland series, he actually did a lot. He did a lot of that. And I think he was fine.

[Dave Dufour]

He's stout.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

You know, it's sort of like, you know, it comes up or it used to come up all the time. James Harden, good post defender.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Because he's stout. And that's the thing about rj is that he's got that body. For me, though, the question is the point because guard. Right. That's the only thing that I worry about. It's quickly. Okay. Well, defensively, you know, it's okay. You've got enough guys behind you, but does he. Does he bring enough on the offensive end? Is he gonna. Is he gonna fit with Kawhi?

[Esperaheny]

Well, it's a great question.

[Dave Dufour]

And then with Jamal Shen, I think like there's a. There's an argument there with the. The way that he protects the ball, doesn't turn it over. It's kind of a guy that you want to have playing heavy minutes with this. With this group because you just want to. Not a caretaker point guard. You really want a guy who can Knock down shots next to Kawhi. But I do think that the ability to not turn it over leans me toward more. Jamal, I want more shit.

[Eric Koreen]

I'll just say to that Quickly is also a low assist to turnover guy or high ratio, low turnover. I think they probably lean more into point Scotty on offense. And now there has to be, you know, the conversation about, you know, managing what Scotty has to do out there because we expect him to be like causing chaos on the back line offensively. And if he's also taking the ball up the floor, that's a problem. But like Quickly can take the ball up the floor and that's when you start to use Scotty's vision either in transition or in the half court. You get the ball to him. But I wouldn't be surprised if you know, when Quickly was out late in the season like Scotty's assist numbers really popped and there were some turnovers with that. Sure. But he also wasn't working with the, you know, Kawhi changes that, that math and what he has to work with so dramatically that the turnovers don't really concern me. So I would imagine we actually get a lot more of playmaking Scotty just because like A quickly can bring the ball up the floor. Floor and B, as you mentioned, he's just a superior shooter to shadow.

[Esperaheny]

He's also like Quickly can be so much better off.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh 100. He can, he can be a spot up guy around those guys. What do you feel s about the Kawhi Scotty two man game? Is there something there? Like I mean, can they play together?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I mean I think it's very similar to Bi and Scotty in the sense that Kawhi likes to play a little bit slower and Scotty loves to play fast. But the other part is Kawhi is excellent in transition. He was one of the best transition players.

[Eric Koreen]

He scored like the fourth most part fast break points last year.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Eric Koreen]

And part of that is even though the Clippers were a slow, Clippers weren't

[Esperaheny]

a great transition team, but he was a great transition player. I, I think part of that is just he is such a good defensive player. He, despite not being what he was in 2019 as a defender, he's still top 10 in the league in deflections. He is a defensive playmaker and so being able to force turnovers gets you to get out and running and that should pair a lot better. BI I thought, had a pretty good defensive season for his part, especially as a helper. As a helper like sweeper type. I think that's just amplified to 10 when it comes.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh yeah. Because it's Kawhi doing the help job now. Like, it's not like he's going to be on the ball all that much.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

He's going to be to able to switch. He's going to be able to pick up guys in moments, but I don't think he's going to have to do it all.

[Eric Koreen]

And I would say to your point about Shed and I don't know how much we want to get into the weeds here, but like the one area where maybe you don't want to overtax any of these guys and Scotty had to do a lot of this last year was like guarding quicker guards.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Eric Koreen]

And that's where Shed can be really valuable. Him and Jacobe Walter, I would say is like guarding the. When there's a. There's a perimeter smaller guard dominated off Darius Garlands of the world Brunson. Yeah. Their importance probably goes up a level.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Eric Koreen]

So playoffs.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

I. I'm going to ask you a question here. You covered the 2019 championship team famously.

[Eric Koreen]

I famously covered it or they famously won?

[Dave Dufour]

Both, Both. Both Famously. In both ways.

[Esperaheny]

There. There. I wouldn't say there are similarities. It's a very different team to 2026 here. Do you think there's similarities?

[Dave Dufour]

So, I mean, it's Kawhi other than Kawhi.

[Esperaheny]

Wait, actually, would you say there are similarities to the 2019 team?

[Eric Koreen]

There are. I don't think they're overwhelming. You know, like I. In one of my first pieces of analysis about the trade, it's like, you know, in the games that Kawhi doesn't play or didn't play in 2019, Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam really filled a void. And then I was like, well, isn't Scotty Barnes just kind of a Kyle Lowry Pascal Siakam hybrid? Like is it. That's sort of his offensive game.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Eric Koreen]

Anyway, we could. We can step back. Like I don't think you know that team also at OGN and Obi and Fred Van Fleet and Pascal Siakam and Norman Powell, like that team had a bunch of future all stars. And while some of these guys might be. I don't think I'm comfortable jumping to that conclusion yet.

[Esperaheny]

That I agree. But to that point, do you think this team as currently constructed because like flexibility wise with contracts and their situation currently with the cap sheet, they're. They're not locked into this group. They can still improve it.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

But they are kind of looking at this is the team for the next couple of years. Do you think they have what it takes to compete in the Eastern Conference, win a championship?

[Eric Koreen]

Well, I mean, the super obvious thing to say here is like, if Kawhi can get through four playoff rounds, three playoff rounds, then and they have a chance. If he can't, which he largely hasn't been able to. And you know, the. The Raptors with Brandon Ingram, with Kawhi Leonard the first time, and now with Kawhi Leonard again. Like, I know for a fact they believe in the stuff they do on the health end. And so that's a bet obviously they're making. That's fine. I wouldn't put them at like the top, top tier of Eastern Conference contenders. And honestly, that might just be as we sit here right now, the Knicks to me. And maybe that's just recency B as we've seen over and over.

[Esperaheny]

Like, you got to respect.

[Eric Koreen]

Yeah, but like, I don't think they're like necessarily much below your Boston's or your Phillies or your Indianas. You know, that's where you probably get into. Well, how do they match up against this team? So I think in general, they. The best version of that team can be right there in that conversation.

[Esperaheny]

They can play some unique basketball is my thing. Like, they.

[Eric Koreen]

They'll be different.

[Esperaheny]

They'll be very different. Ye.

[Dave Dufour]

I think the big man. The big man situation is the one thing that they really got to think about Y. And but if. If Peltle can give him 20 minutes a night, it's pretty good. I mean, he's not even. He's not bad when he's on the court. It's just that he's never on the court.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I. I think the assumption is. And to. This is what you were saying earlier, but like Colin is going to play 30 plus minutes a night.

[Eric Koreen]

And how some of them will be as f or.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Eric Koreen]

Some of them will be him or Scotty as the de facto five.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Anyway.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Eric, thanks for hanging out with us. Appreciate it. Everybody go and read Eric Karine over at the Athletic. He's gonna be covering the Kawai trade saga until it another Kawhi season for the Rats.

[Esperaheny]

Did you imagine like even two years ago that did anybody.

[Dave Dufour]

The NBA. Look, the NBA does goofy stuff all the time. This is one of the silliest.

[Eric Koreen]

No, my first. My first call about it was this is hilarious. And like some people were at the comments like, it's not funny. I'm like, no, no. I mean it's funny. Yeah. Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

It's the most bizarre.

[Eric Koreen]

It's other things, but it is also funny. Yeah, well, he's a. He's a fun guy. I don't know if you'd heard.

[Dave Dufour]

That's right.

[Commercial Narrator]

All right.

[Dave Dufour]

For Esperahenne and Eric Karine, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoy it, drop a like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us. When everything is moving all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You need one solution. That's why Paylocity built a single platform to connect connect hr, finance and IT with AI driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power. What's next? Because when everything comes together in one place, growth comes easy experience. One place for all your HCM needs. Start now at paylocity.com one evening buyer's remorse buy a new car. I'll be moving in. Let's get started.

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[Dave Dufour]

You what?

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[Eric Koreen]

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