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Is Alperen Sengun the most overrated NBA Player? | Morning Shoot Around
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- [00:00]
Robert Mase
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- [01:07]
Men's Wearhouse Announcer
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- [01:58]
Dave Dufour
I love that music.
- [02:00]
Esperaheny
I know.
- [02:00]
Dave Dufour
Hello everybody. Welcome to the NBA daily morning shoot around Wednesday morning still morning here on the west coast. I'm Dave Defor here with Esperaheny and Zena Kada. What's up guys? How are you?
- [02:13]
Ben
Hello.
- [02:15]
Esperaheny
Chilling.
- [02:16]
Dave Dufour
Oh Cena, your mic is a little bit hot. Can you crank that down just a touch?
- [02:20]
Esperaheny
Yeah, let me touch it down. Sorry.
- [02:21]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, there we go. You know what's funny is it wasn't before the stream. There you go. Producing on the fly.
- [02:27]
Esperaheny
There we go.
- [02:28]
Dave Dufour
You guys doing. You guys been watching a lot of Twitch?
- [02:32]
Ben
I don't even know how to do that.
- [02:36]
Esperaheny
No, I have not been watching a
- [02:37]
Dave Dufour
Lot of Twitch s. I would assume that you would be, like, a. A big Twitch guy.
- [02:41]
Ben
You know what? I. You would assume I'm a big twitch guy.
- [02:45]
Dave Dufour
You're not much of a video game guy, though, right?
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Ben
No.
- [02:49]
Dave Dufour
Yes.
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Esperaheny
You don't have to be like, I watch the stud buds on Twitch, and, you know, it's fine. It's a. You know.
- [02:56]
Men's Wearhouse Announcer
So where do you.
- [02:56]
Ben
Where do you. How do you. You know what?
- [02:58]
Dave Dufour
I.
- [02:59]
Ben
Look, I'm 30 years old, right. So maybe. Maybe I should be more in tune with.
- [03:04]
Dave Dufour
That's what it is, is that you're 30. I just assumed.
- [03:07]
Ben
I feel like a Twitch guy. Yeah. I need to reassess things. I think I need to reassess where I am in my life. If I'm.
- [03:15]
Dave Dufour
Maybe because you're so.
- [03:17]
Esperaheny
You.
- [03:17]
Dave Dufour
You happen to be.
- [03:18]
Esperaheny
So you're online. Yeah.
- [03:19]
Robert Mase
Right.
- [03:20]
Dave Dufour
You're very online.
- [03:21]
Esperaheny
Yeah.
- [03:21]
Dave Dufour
I think of the three of us here. Yeah.
- [03:23]
Ben
Okay. Yes, probably. Yeah. Between the three of us. But that's like being like, you know, none of us are.
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Esperaheny
You know what?
- [03:30]
Dave Dufour
I'm not taking this. That's fair. Okay, well, ruining my segue here. Jalen Brown was fined $50,000 for public criticism of officiating on a live stream on Twitch, which is. That's the most 2026 headline that I've seen on the athletic possibly. Guys, what is going on with Jalen Brown?
- [03:57]
Ben
I think he. I think he. I think he liked being the number one option.
- [04:03]
Dave Dufour
He said it was his favorite year of his career. Now, he was hooping, let's be honest. Right? Like, he was taking every shot that he wanted. I understand. Was in the MVP conversation for the first time in his career. He was the number one guy. I don't know. Is he. Is he trying to get traded?
- [04:22]
Ben
Let me. Let me ask you guys this. What would you prefer? Would you prefer a year in which you win Eastern Conference finals? Mvp. Finals mvp. Win an NBA championship, or would you guys prefer the year where you average 30, end up top five in the MVP valid and blow a 31 lead in the first round?
- [04:41]
Dave Dufour
What's the paycheck attached?
- [04:43]
Ben
Both are the same. Actually, both are the exact same.
- [04:47]
Esperaheny
That's the only reason that makes me think he's not trying to get traded. I feel like he appreciates the fact that he got to play with his brother again and Jason Tatum was able to come back. I do think he relished the opportunity to be that number one option. As you're mentioned as. However, I really just think that he was. He's mad. You Know what I mean? These are athletes that are pissed off that they, they were up, they were supposed to win. We, you know, the one show that you were like, we thought they were going, I think it was Dave. I was like, yeah, we definitely thought, you know, a lot of us thought they were going to the Finals. Yeah, I was like, listening, being like, yeah, include me in that. I think a lot of us all thought that they were going to the finals. And that's particularly when it burns when everyone had such high expectations for how you were supposed to come out and perform. And this was supposed to be a bonus. Jason Tatum, supposed to come back was a bonus at the end of the season. And so I imagine that he was just bitter and upset and didn't think that through. And he is supposed to be one of the more, you know, thoughtful, introspective players within the league. And that's why I feel like it's very jarring to see him speak that way. But, yeah, I'm gonna just put it to he's mad. Let him simmer.
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Dave Dufour
I will say, though, look, not all of his criticisms are hollow.
- [06:03]
Esperaheny
Fair.
- [06:04]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, flapping is a problem. I mean, he's, he's speaking largely in a way that I talk about NBA officiating sometimes it's, we should find you. Well, fortunately, I don't have a contract with the NBA, although I'm still down to sign. Hey, I will sign a 10 day contract with any team because then it means I, you know, maybe I can get a TV job. But I do think that his criticism of officiating is not, is not hollow. It's just not necessarily the right place to do it or the right time. I don't know. But there's got to be a little bit to your point, Zena, of the shock Factor. Joel Embiid cooked those dudes in the last three games. And I think that, you know, they had been overperforming all season long and a lot of it was relying on their principles. And then, you know, they failed in those in those last few games. So, you know, yeah, maybe a little bit of that. Like his heart is hurt, you know, A little bit of heart.
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Ben
Yeah. I think, I think one of the interesting things about Jaylen Brown and I guess as we look forward to the Celtics in general, is like, this team is still very good.
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Esperaheny
Like, right?
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Dave Dufour
Oh, yeah.
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Ben
All things considered, if they just were to put out the exact same roster next year, they're still an Eastern Conference contender, championship contender, what have you. The only thing that can throw a wrench into that or kind of throw a wedge into that situation is if the personal dynamics change. And to that point, maybe this season from Jaylen Brown has invited the personal dynamics to change. I don't know to what extent, because we don't know, like, what's Jayson Tatum's intentions in all of this, like, whether he wants to get more usage, less usage, whatever it is. But it's just something interesting to think about because nothing could really tear this team apart, in my opinion, outside of the personal dynamics of the group together, which is what makes them kind of fascinating.
- [07:59]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. I mean, I do think that they're going to be in the mix for players who might be available this summer. I think Giannis is a guy that, that we're already hearing Boston's taking a look at. So, sure. You.
- [08:09]
Esperaheny
It's always going to be, is this a pattern? Right. You win a championship and within that first year, second year, people. People are paid. Right. That's not even the question now. It's a factor of the dynamics of we want a championship and we have to do it again. Who's in the driver's seat, who's in the passenger seat? And that, that. I feel like that happens with a lot of championship scene championship teams.
- [08:30]
Dave Dufour
You know, we also, you know, we don't think about them this way, but Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, like, they're 29 and 30. They are. They are not just these young guys anymore. And they've been. They've had a heck of a run. You know, all the conference finals, obviously the finals that they. They made one and lost. They made one and one. So that's something else that we should start thinking about. Like, there is a shelf life, I think, for a lot of these teams. We. We saw it with, with the Bucks. Yep. And they kind of ran out of juice. We're seeing it maybe with the Nuggets, and they kind of ran out of juice. And maybe that's what we're witnessing with the Celtics. I don't know. I think that they have a fascinating off season and we'll probably talk about that stuff as we get deeper into the playoffs and there's fewer games to talk about. But first, guys, I want to talk about the Athletics Anonymous player poll. This is one of the more fun things that we get to talk about every year. If you guys haven't read it, go over to the Athletic. It's on the main NBA page. It's the A1 story of the day. Because, you know, hey, this is the. This is why you pay for the athletic. Athletic. Our people are in the building talking to players every single night. And I don't know, are you guys first? Have you looked at the player poll and was anything about it shocking to you?
- [09:47]
Ben
I will just. I will say it's funny that Scotty Barnes was both named overrated and underrated.
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Esperaheny
Underrated.
- [09:55]
Ben
That's perfectly balanced, you know?
- [09:57]
Dave Dufour
Well, it's maybe someone who's exposed to a lot of Toronto media, you know, because, like, I am. And I would. I would have said the same thing. Yeah, I. I think that maybe he's overrated, especially by the people that cover the rafters. But after the playoff run, and it wasn't like I haven't watched Scotty Barnes all year, I feel better about Scotty Barnes and probably more in line with Toronto media than I did before the playoffs.
- [10:22]
Ben
So now. So now. Perfectly rated now.
- [10:29]
Dave Dufour
Isn't that kind of perfect, though? If a guy is considered overrated and underrated, doesn't that mean he's maybe properly rated? Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, let's go through these and talk about it a little bit, because I do think this is pretty fun. The most underrated player in the league. We had a tie, 4% of the vote, both going to Jalen Johnson and Derrick White.
- [10:53]
Esperaheny
I like this one. I think we got to see Derrick White step into the. The void that was left with Jason Tatum being out early this season. He was taking shots, going to the basket. I mean, but what we basically really saw was that defense, like his capacity for guarding every player on the floor, being amazing in help. He was just tremendous for them in so many ways. And I. This is the perennial way we're going to look at Derrick White. Like, this is his perennial title. He's going to always be underrated. I feel like because of his size and because of who he's always matched up with. Right. In Boston, it's the Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown show. I could flip that if you'd really like me to, but whatever, it's the show. Then we. We all felt it. We watched the Olympics, right. And he was getting significant minutes. But this is who he's always been, is. He's someone that you can trust to perform, to produce, and that is constitutive of why he's going to get those opportunities. But it's also why people don't think he's a star. It's because there's so many other stars that are shining brightly around him. So I just feel like every single time we're going to talk about Derrick White for the entirety of his career. He's always going to be underrated. The Jalen Johnson one, though, that's my. That's my guy. He don't know me, but I just love him. 13 triple doubles. Unbelievable poise for how young he is. His size, being able to get and distribute. Gets into the paint, distributes with ease. I did not feel like the playoffs really gave us a taste of what he really plays like and what he's capable of. But, yeah, Jalen Johnson is a person. I feel like I keep having to be like, you don't know Jalen Johnson. Like, you don't know what he's doing and having to explain that to people. So I agree with that pick.
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Dave Dufour
There were. There were three Celtics.
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Ben
I was.
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Dave Dufour
I was actually in the top five. Derrick White, Jalen Brown, Peyton Pritchard, and a former Celtic, Drew Holiday. And Drew Holiday. And I, I think what. I wonder some sometimes, like, how much of it is about expectations. Like, we talked about this with coach of the year. You have a team that, oh, they might make the play in and they have home court advantage in the playoffs, Boom, you got a great shot at coach of the year. You take a team from 50 wins to 65 wins, you got a great shot at coach of the year. Right. And I wonder with this, the Celtics being on there, Jalen Brown is like third on this list. And again, I think some of it is, oh, we didn't know that they could do this. We didn't know Jalen Brown could be the guy. Derrick White, listen, he had a rough year offensively. Like, the shot is just broken.
- [13:31]
Esperaheny
But wasn't it towards the end of the year that it was rough?
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Dave Dufour
It was. It was kind of like waning over the course of the year and then it just jumped off the cliff.
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Esperaheny
Yeah, agreed, agreed.
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Dave Dufour
But his defense is what really I think has woken people up about him. I mean, the fact that he is not just their best perimeter defender, but he's like their best rim protector at times. You know, I think that that's a large part of it with him. But I think having three Celtics at the top, that. That tells a lot about the season. People just didn't expect much. What was Jalen Brown going to do with more attention? Peyton Pritchard starting as much as he did? I think people were surprised by that. Is there. Is there anybody? Like, I actually think, like, at this point, if we were to take this poll again, we wouldn't get Jalen Johnson and Derrick White.
- [14:17]
Ben
I agree.
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Dave Dufour
In the underrated I, I think that at this point in the year, like, I'm not sure when they finish up these questions, you know, it was likely in the regular season, right. Maybe they might have finished it up around All Star. And so I think that if you were to now take like the second half of the season, first round of the playoffs, Jalen Johnson and Derrick White, probably more properly rated by, by the general, you know, media, I would guess,
- [14:42]
Ben
I would also wager maybe some people will call them overrated, you know, based on how they did in the playoffs. You know, just the way that the narrative shifts. Right. It's.
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Dave Dufour
Yeah.
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Esperaheny
Quick.
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Ben
People are very fickle with these conversations. So Jalen Johnson struggled in round one. Derrick White did not play well and didn't shoot well. And so I think the natural thing is to maybe say, well, no, these guys are actually overrated after.
- [15:03]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, a bunch of frauds just waiting to be exposed is actually what this is all about, right? Yeah, exactly.
- [15:09]
Ben
Yeah.
- [15:10]
Robert Mase
Who.
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Dave Dufour
Okay, on. On the list, going down the list, is there anyone that you think is going to be at the top of the underrated list next year? From. From the list of names that are in the underrated, I can't read them all out. It's too many. So guys go and read it. At the Athletic.
- [15:26]
Esperaheny
I thought the Austin Reeves one was interesting just in the sense of he was a solid number two option, but many nights could have been the Lakers number one. Of course, Luka Dodges exists, so we don't ever want to, you know, replace that. But Austin Reeves's game, to me, when think about why people voted for Peyton Pritchard, we saw those moves, we saw the handles, we saw him do some setback moves. We're like, oh, we didn't know you had that in your bag. Shout out to you. I feel the same way about Austin Reeves. I mean, he was a dog in the way in some of the games that he was scoring in. And we saw tibbits of this early in his career. But this particular past year, especially with the inconsistencies with the health that they had, Austin Reeves was solid.
- [16:11]
Ben
Yeah, I'll. I'll make a pick. I mean, I'm looking at a couple of the names here, but the one that really pops out to me and I can't believe I just lost it, but where did it go? I had it right here. Sorry, everybody. Jalen Tyson, that's the guy who pops out to me because you think, yeah, I feel like, look, he had a really good year and given that he's A second year player. He's entering his third year. I think there's ultimately a. A role or maybe an increase in role. Waiting for it. Waiting to happen next year with the Cavaliers. Also feels like they might do some reshuffling if they don't go as far as they want to. That might end up giving Jalen a little bit more of a role and an opportunity. I think he's a really good player and just more opportunity for him means he's. He's going to be underrated. Yeah.
- [16:58]
Esperaheny
What do we feel about. Hold on. I want to ask you, Dave. How do you feel about the Jaden McDaniels?
- [17:03]
Dave Dufour
Well, actually, I was about to talk about Jaden McDaniels, funny enough. So I've got a follow up, which is, who do you guys feel is the most underrated player in the playoffs right now? And for me, the answer is the same. The guy who I think will be high on this list and underrated, but also the most underrated player who's still in the playoffs, Jaden McDaniels. He's not the best player on the Timberwolves. That's Anthony Edwards. But he is their most important guy on both ends, actually, because when he's rolling on offense, they're rolling on offense, and we know what he does on the defensive end. I think that, you know, amongst NBA players, I. I probably have him first. As far as underrated, I mean, he's very much Scotty Pippen to Anthony Edwards, Michael Jordan in every single way. As far as a complimentary player goes, he's able to obviously guard everyone on the court. He may be the most versatile defender in the NBA. Yeah. So that's. Yeah. Good call, Xena.
- [17:59]
Esperaheny
Yeah, I feel like. I ain't gonna lie to you. I'm looking at this list, though, and there 151 votes were cast, y'. All. There's a whole bunch of players on this list. Okay. And so the percentage differences is like Jalen Johnson and Derek White had 4% of the hundred.
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Dave Dufour
Yeah. Yeah.
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Esperaheny
Right. So it was sparingly passed out, these votes.
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Dave Dufour
Yeah.
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Esperaheny
For each player. Some of these votes are unserious. I'm sorry, Donovan Mitchell, you're. You after underrated. You're gonna really say he's underrated? I think he's.
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Ben
Maybe you just really like him.
- [18:32]
Esperaheny
I get that. But I'm like, again, Kawhi Leonard.
- [18:37]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [18:38]
Esperaheny
You know, I mean, like, these are. These are things. It's like just because they are performing to what we all expect them to perform to what Is that. How are you underrated from that?
- [18:49]
Dave Dufour
We need these guys to put in some work. I. I need. Give me some analytics guys behind your choices.
- [18:56]
Esperaheny
Yeah, like, I know somebody said bam out of bio because he did what he did, right? You get the scoring record?
- [19:02]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. Hey, we're gonna get to bam out of bio, but not through bam out of bio before the show is over. Because that's the most hilarious outcome in the entire player poll is the coaches. But we'll get there in a minute. Okay. The overrated player. I mean, we. This is teased in the. In the art for this episode. Albert Shingoon running away with it with over 12% of the vote out of 81 votes, which is a more significant.
- [19:33]
Ben
People don't like it. People don't like it.
- [19:35]
Dave Dufour
How much of this is. I wonder how much of this is play and how much of this is personal? Because again, and I don't mean personal like off the court. I mean personal on the court. They hate playing against him. He obviously, like, we talked a lot about the stiff arm, some of the stuff that he, you know, gets away with on. On the court. We all saw the LeBron video where LeBron's at the free throw line. Alpers complains that it's a soft call. And yeah, LeBron hits him with not you, anybody else but you. Which I. I really. I love that. That was. That was pretty good time. I listen. You know what, guys? This is accurate.
- [20:14]
Ben
I agree.
- [20:15]
Dave Dufour
Alperin Shingoon is the most overrated player in the NBA. They should have moved him for Giannis when they had a chance because now everyone's caught up. And one of the big reasons why the Rockets were out in the first round is because Alper and Shingoon isn't good enough. And the Rockets thought he would be.
- [20:33]
Esperaheny
Say it.
- [20:34]
Ben
I know it's. It's harsh in the way that it sounds because overrated feels really loud. But when you. When you think about what this poll is asking is based on the way we talk about these players. Why is there more hype for one of these guys than others? That is what overrated discusses. And I think Sengun to your point, Dave has been touted as like, this next coming of Jokic.
- [21:01]
Dave Dufour
Baby Jokic, baby Jokic.
- [21:03]
Ben
And like, he's grown as a defender and all those things. And truthfully, I think a lot of his offensive indicators, if you look at, like, how he isolates, how he posts up all of these things, if you grade it out, they grade out as average. And so he's been Very average in comparison to the conversations around him. He's obviously been a two time all star. So like he generally gets the love from, from the relative like NBA world, but maybe that love is. Is kind of like cart before the horse type of thing.
- [21:35]
Dave Dufour
He touches the ball a lot too, man. Exactly. Perception is reality. He looks like at times their best player because he touches the ball so much like you would have your best player. Yeah, but I don't know. Reed shepherd hasn't gotten the opportunity that Shangun got to touch the. You know what I mean? Like maybe Reed Shepherd's a better player if he had the ball in his hands as much. I. Probably not, but so here it is.
- [21:56]
Ben
I just, I pulled it up. So on post ups, 47th percentile, isolation, 47th percentile, transition. 47th percentile, pick and roll, roll, man, which you think he'd be good at.43 percentile. Spot up, 14th percentile. Like average, average, average, average, average, poor. You know. And so if he is your offense, if he is your offensive hub, he is not giving you efficient enough offense. And we've talked about it all season about how the Rockets are lacking in the half court, can't create their own shots, et cetera, et cetera, Rely on, rely on Kevin Durant too much. Yeah, it just, he, he fits the build of overrated.
- [22:36]
Esperaheny
So this conversation around overrated and underrated is always so interesting to me because it's like the players were the ones casting these votes and I'm depending on the player. It's what you guys are talking about. Are they overrated? Underrated from the eyes of the media. Are they overrated? Underrated from the eyes of the players. Were they overrated? Underrated from the eyes of the fans. And I think that Alfred Shangoon. And then with that it makes you wonder who's responsible for causing the rate to go up or go down. Right. This narrative and I would say the media, but the baby Yokich comparisons is in this case very, very responsible for it. But I was trying to think of like, what is it that makes you go, you know, when you watch Alperin Shangoon over the course of a season, over the course of a game. I think that what fascinates folks about Alperin is a lot. Some of his finishes and some of his like late shot clock hail Marys that go in. Yeah, that is always. That's reminiscent of what Jokic does. Now the difference is, is that Jokic does it consistently and it's not a Hail Mary. This is his game.
- [23:45]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [23:45]
Esperaheny
Right. And so you're looking at Alpern do these crazy finishes through contact in the paint maybe once or twice in a game, and it's enough to cement yourself in that, oh, he's really good. And to it. It basically supplants any other idea that you have of the fact that he's average. You're just like, oh, that finish, that shot, it was unreal. The. He had, you know, just about just the same amount of assists as almost, you know, Yic has had. He gets rebounds, and he gets 20 a game. Great. I think that is why we have given him so much more rating, because usage. It's. It's usage and it's just. He has enough shiny plays.
- [24:26]
Dave Dufour
Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, that's a. That's a good call. Listen, disrespectful here that Rudy Gobert is tied for second with Trey Young. Rudy Gobert should be on the underrated player list. Well, this playoff so far, we're seeing.
- [24:41]
Esperaheny
Yes, right. Go ahead. Playoffs.
- [24:43]
Dave Dufour
It's because of the defensive player of the year awards that he's won. That's what. That's why he's considered overrated. I just disagree. I think that as far as defensive big men go, in his era, he's been the best one. And what we're seeing. What we're seeing right now is a part of the reason why we've watched him adapt. I mean, this guy, honestly, we don't talk enough about how old Rudy is and how a year and a half ago, when he was coming off that injury after the Olympics, he looked washed.
- [25:15]
Esperaheny
That's a good point.
- [25:15]
Dave Dufour
He had a fantastic season defensively. He's having a great playoff so far. And, you know, I think that a lot of it is people don't value what he does defensively nearly enough because it's not explained back to the media. It's often not explained enough what he's doing or, you know, because it's not obvious. But the truth is, I think it's been glaringly obvious here in the last three weeks just how good of a player he still is. So for this is one where I think it's more about Rudy the guy than Rudy the player.
- [25:48]
Ben
Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
- [25:49]
Esperaheny
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
- [25:51]
Ben
I mean, I. You guys know how much I've been talking about. Rudy should have been top three in defensive player of the year voting this year. I still believe that. I think he had an incredible year. I would put him under underrated. But also, if we are going through the media lens, then maybe that's something that we're missing. Like, that's a lapse in. In our abilities because we're saying he's underrated, but the players think he's overrated. That's that telling us that. That we're overrating his ability. So it's just.
- [26:19]
Esperaheny
Right.
- [26:20]
Ben
That's the interesting part of it, Right? Like, we're. We're here vouching for Rudy Gobert to be on the underrated list because of how important he is, yet that's the. That's exactly what the.
- [26:30]
Esperaheny
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's get a nice little 30. Because I'm not necessarily saying that he should be on the underrated list. That offensive game looks like what mine looked like, and he's been in the NBA for many years. Okay? He's got to be better in the way that he finishes in traffic and the way that he moves in general. So I'm not. I'm not saying I'm gonna move him to the underrated, but I'm just saying.
- [26:55]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, you gotta count those screen assists. Xena.
- [26:59]
Esperaheny
That's right.
- [27:00]
Dave Dufour
That guy.
- [27:01]
Esperaheny
That's fair.
- [27:01]
Dave Dufour
He's creating a lot of Huffle.
- [27:03]
Esperaheny
Who do y' all think is the. I actually. There's someone on here that I'm like. The proof is in the pudding.
- [27:11]
Ben
There's actually two guys on here that I feel the same way about. I don't know how you feel that
- [27:14]
Dave Dufour
aren't overrated, that are.
- [27:16]
Esperaheny
That are on this list. And I don't think they should be.
- [27:18]
Ben
I think it's ridiculous that they're on this list. I'm curious what you think. Who, the players.
- [27:22]
Esperaheny
No, you go first.
- [27:24]
Ben
Well, I mean, Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam should not be on this list.
- [27:29]
Esperaheny
Okay. You got one of them.
- [27:31]
Dave Dufour
I would say Carl Anthony Towns and Pascal Siakam.
- [27:34]
Ben
I. I just. I think it's nonsense because we saw the pacers literally make 1008 finals, and those two guys were their two best players. To call them overrated means that you probably lost to them in the playoffs, bro. You know, like, that's Halliburton.
- [27:49]
Dave Dufour
Hey, listen, Halliburton was high up on the list or maybe even number one last year. I can't remember off the top of my head. The Halliburton one I can at least understand because again, we go back to the media perspective. The Hal Burton's everywhere. They've got him on ESPN at the WWE event, which I don't know why it's covered like a sport. And. And, you know, and he was all over the place. They. They make that great Finals run. I can understand at least that perception.
- [28:15]
Esperaheny
Yeah.
- [28:15]
Dave Dufour
And him getting votes. Pascal Siakam. I don't get it.
- [28:18]
Esperaheny
All the through line between all of us is Pascal Siakam. I. I'm very confused by that. There's. That. There's. It doesn't make sense. The other one, though, that's not so obvious from a play perspective, that. But from an impact perspective. Dylan Brooks, wherever he goes, teams find success.
- [28:38]
Ben
But, you know, they have him on this list, though.
- [28:42]
Esperaheny
I hate.
- [28:43]
Dave Dufour
This is a psychological exercise.
- [28:46]
Esperaheny
Like, yeah, we saw. We have seen teams become dogs on defense when Dylan Brooks joins their roster. Right. They have. Have. They find resilience in a way that they don't have before. A culture develops wherever Dylan Brooks goes. So I don't think he. He shouldn't be in this overrated situation.
- [29:06]
Dave Dufour
Look, you guys will love this because I. I've been saying that the Cavs are soft. I got a text during the Cavs Pistons game. Hey, can the. Can the Cavs somehow get Dylan Brooks this summer? He would be. They've needed him for years, right?
- [29:17]
Esperaheny
That would be. I don't mind it.
- [29:19]
Dave Dufour
One of the reasons why I like Jaylon Tyson to pop out next year is because I actually think that the toughness that he has. The Cavs need more of, like, they need 38 minutes a night of that. But, yeah, if they could get Dylan Brooks, they wouldn't maybe be in this mess. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Anybody else on the list that stands out to you guys as far as maybe you feel like they should have gotten more votes or shouldn't be on the list at all?
- [29:43]
Ben
I mean, I. I don't know. I. I just. I think maybe Evan Mobley is the other guy that jumps out to me is, like, probably a little bit more overrated than people think. I. And I don't. I don't say that because I know people will say you're a Raptors fan, so the Scotty Mobley comparisons, etc. Etc. I'm not saying it from that vantage point. I'm saying it because, like, this.
- [30:04]
Esperaheny
The.
- [30:05]
Ben
All of the anticipation around Mobley becoming the next Kevin Garnett.
- [30:09]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [30:10]
Ben
And it hasn't happened. And I think the Cavs banked so much of their future on this guy becoming the guy that not happening is what's limiting their ability to make that run. And it's just. Yeah, like, he's. He gets a lot of love in the league, and I think players Recognize that maybe that love is. Is not. Not necessarily warranted. Yeah, my.
- [30:35]
Esperaheny
The other one. I'll add to that. In terms of things that stand out, I personally feel like Carl Anthony Towns was sent this list before the playoffs.
- [30:47]
Ben
Fred Katz got a min.
- [30:48]
Esperaheny
I feel like Fred Katz was like, listen, yeah, this how the streets are talking about you. You might want to get it together, because it has been. I don't want to say day and night, but it's been significant difference.
- [31:01]
Dave Dufour
It's. It's wonderful. And when a coach figures out how to use a talented offensive player, it's amazing what can happen. Yeah, they've been. They've been really good. Hey, who voted for Brandon Pazemski? Was it Draymond Curry? I was gonna say, was it Draymond and Steph? Like, that would. That's. To me, I. I want to be a fly on the wall for some of these, because I really want to know, like, who's trolling a little bit, you know, who's trying to get a message out there. But, hey, I agree. Randy Bajemsky maybe overrated.
- [31:31]
Ben
That's funny.
- [31:32]
Dave Dufour
All right, let's go to the coaches. The most impressive coach. And look, we talked about Joe Missoula all year. He wins this over Mark Dagnaut by about 3%. Okay. And this one had a lot of votes, 146 votes, so he gets almost 18% of the vote. Giannis came out and was talking about how he really admired the way Joe Missoula coaches. We talked about what he did this season, his. His system, his development, style. And, you know, again, they had a great regular season in what a lot of us thought might be a gap year. Yep. Not so much in the. In the playoffs. And I think that when we. When we go to look at this next year, I think that a whole summer of discourse is going to come around on Joe Missoula. And I bet that he has a few steps back because of the playoff failures, not just this year, but now. This is like three playoff losses where it feels like they went out early and. And that they should have won. So what do you guys think? Missoula is the most impressive coach, according to the players.
- [32:40]
Esperaheny
To me, this is an exercise. And when you look at a cup that's halfway full, is it halfway full or is it halfway empty? And this is the recurring argument when it comes to MVPs or best, right. Are you the most valuable because there's no one else around you and you are the most valuable. Like, you are quite literally needed for your team or are you the most valuable because you are the best of an incredibly abundant in talent team? Right. And this is a similar conversation from a coaching perspective of Joe Missoula. You had to work with little and you made you squeeze the juice out of this team so well that you were able to get to a place that no one expected you to be. But you still came up short versus Mark Dagnall. You've got an abundance of talent and you've been able to play those pieces correctly. I still feel like, and this is. I'm of this camp, especially when it comes to coaching and this era of basketball, knowing the personalities, knowing the money, knowing the narratives, knowing all of these different dynamics that can completely disrupt the team. Houston Rockets. I give a lot of credit to a Mark Dagno that that culture being able to create a locker room environment, a system from G League up that where people feel like they are falling in line. That to me is most impressive.
- [34:06]
Dave Dufour
The players like them too. By the way, he got. He was second 16% of the vote. You know, we've talked about OKC now for years and their development. A lot of that is such a great organization. I think what they've done with Mark Dagault and brought him up as a G League coach. So he's been there with these guys. It's pretty clear that it's his job until he doesn't want it anymore, essentially. I wonder how much of this is. Is the culture behind the franchise. You look at Missoula, Brad Stevens kind of has set the culture from the top down. And Missoula obviously has his own culture that he set. But Dagnaut's the same. Hey, top down, here's what we are. And then day to day, it's Mark Dagnalt is the one that's doing it. You know, it seems like this is where the good franchises are heading.
- [34:52]
Esperaheny
Agreed. You got to break this down. How is Darko not on this list?
- [34:59]
Dave Dufour
You don't think.
- [34:59]
Ben
I don't think people talk about the Raptors.
- [35:01]
Dave Dufour
That's why there's that. And also people aren't familiar with this game. You know, again, like, you don't really get to see these coaches coach until you get into the playoffs.
- [35:10]
Ben
Absolutely.
- [35:11]
Dave Dufour
And, and you know, no one really thought that much of the Raptors this year. You know, they were the team that. That shouldn't. Have. Shouldn't have been home court advantage for most of the year. They wound up not having home court advantage. But yeah, we. We assume they might be a play in. It was like Hey, a good pat you on the back sort of season. And I think that when you look at what he was able to, to wring out of this team, a lot of ringing out of coaches.
- [35:34]
Ben
A lot of ringing.
- [35:34]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. And he, he really got everything he could out of them, including in the playoffs. And I, again, I bet he's up on this list next year because this is, you know, a lot of people's eyes are opened in March, April, May, and especially when it comes to coaches because you don't know if a coach is necessarily great or not until they get into the playoffs. Right. J.B. bickerstaff has been a really, really solid regular season coach. But you get to the playoffs and some of those warts have started to show, right? I do.
- [36:03]
Ben
I think it's interesting because from a fan and from a media, even from a media perspective, it's really hard to assess coaching because you don't know what exactly they are responsible for. They have 50 people.
- [36:16]
Dave Dufour
Well, Eme said that, that his guys weren't even running the stuff he was calling.
- [36:20]
Ben
Well, that's insane.
- [36:21]
Esperaheny
Yeah.
- [36:22]
Dave Dufour
So again, this to me is that. That's a failure of coaching.
- [36:26]
Ben
Yeah, I agree.
- [36:26]
Dave Dufour
I agree.
- [36:27]
Ben
That's.
- [36:28]
Dave Dufour
I would never say that out loud. If my players.
- [36:30]
Esperaheny
Me neither. Me neither.
- [36:31]
Dave Dufour
I would never say that out loud. Yeah.
- [36:33]
Esperaheny
I mean that means you've lost the locker room, right?
- [36:35]
Ben
You've lost the locker room. There isn't a buy in like all of these things. Again, it's. It's what they aren't saying that's the important part here. And I just. To me, I think when players are voting on stuff like this, it shows you what they prefer from a coach, what their preference is. So to me, Jordan Ott being high up on this list is interesting.
- [36:54]
Dave Dufour
Charles Lee, especially first year coach. Right. These are all younger guys.
- [36:59]
Ben
These are all younger guys, which is.
- [37:01]
Dave Dufour
I think J.J. redick, by the way, should be higher up on this. I think JJ Redick's a fantastic coach. I think he is just about as solid of a. I mean, this is his first job. I think that when you look at the creativity he's had to have, especially given the injury stuff that he's dealt with and then that first round playoff series, I mean, I. His game plan was perfect. Absolutely perfect. Yeah, it's a good list. Okay, here. The funniest, the funniest one, guys, who's the least impressive coach? 100 votes cast. So you, you know, 22 players, 22% of the vote, Brian Keef. And no one could have Named him before Bam out of bio, was allowed to score 83 points. What did I say, guys? I said, everyone's gonna know your name now. Brian Keefe.
- [37:51]
Ben
Yeah. And wow, what happened around then, too. I bet you. I bet you the poll came out around the same time. And he is in the ether of the conversation. Who's the coach who fouled? Kept following. Oh, yeah, put him down. Put Brian.
- [38:06]
Dave Dufour
It's a coup because he beats Doc rivers, who got 14 of the vote.
- [38:10]
Ben
Yeah.
- [38:11]
Dave Dufour
And I honestly, I think Doc would have won this running away had it not been for Bam out of bio scoring 83 points and reminding people who Brian Keefe even was.
- [38:22]
Esperaheny
Yeah, I'm with that. I'm with that.
- [38:24]
Ben
I agree. I'm. I. I was honestly kind of surprised that the Wizards are deciding to keep Brian Keith on as. As head coach.
- [38:32]
Dave Dufour
Here's the thing. I don't know whether he's a good coach or not. It doesn't. It doesn't seem like he's an awful coach. I'm just. I just am picking on him because of that one game. But you don't. I don't know if he's a good coach or not because he hasn't had really good players. They're. They're constantly shuffling people in and out of the lineup. You know, I mean, they were sitting guys who absolutely should have been playing NBA basketball this year. And so, you know, the jury's out. But this is where that, that whole thing about, like, perception being reality, they didn't make an adjustment on Bam out of bio until the fourth quarter. And he was out there like, legitimately smearing your faces in it. That's a problem.
- [39:12]
Esperaheny
Guys. We. We giving these players a little too much credit. I honestly think these players decided to look at the rosters, excuse me, the records, and said, who's the coach of that team? Because you putting on Jordy Fernandez. I do not think that Jordy Fernandez.
- [39:30]
Dave Dufour
That's ridiculous.
- [39:31]
Ben
Yeah, that's crazy.
- [39:32]
Dave Dufour
It's least impressive. And I, I agree with you there.
- [39:35]
Esperaheny
Right.
- [39:36]
Dave Dufour
There's some stink that is from the franchise getting rubbed off on Jordy Fernandez from their record. And some of that could be Brian ke, too. But I do believe that the Bam thing put him over the top. But Doc Rivers was. To me, Doc Rivers is one of the worst coach hirings in the last five years. He didn't even want to be there, remember? I mean, oh, they had to talk me into doing this. And the. The previous coach that they fired was 31 and 13 at the time. That they fired him. Yeah.
- [40:05]
Esperaheny
Rick Carlisle is on this list.
- [40:07]
Ben
Yeah. A lot of these are just silly.
- [40:09]
Esperaheny
I mean, like, they were like, I don't. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings because I could probably be playing for them next year. And let me look at these records and say, yeah, you were in the bottom of the, you know, east and the West. Boom. You get a vote. I just. This, I. I can't take this list seriously. Really. Doug Christie, though. I agree with that. I agree with Doug Christie. I agree with Doc Rivers, man. I don't know how much I agree
- [40:32]
Ben
with Doug Christie's supposed to.
- [40:33]
Esperaheny
To do.
- [40:34]
Dave Dufour
I know you gotta play Russ. 40 minutes a night. That was his only option. You know, that was the only way to say precious.
- [40:39]
Ben
Achua and Dylan Caldwell, man.
- [40:43]
Dave Dufour
Jamal Mosley, 3% of the vote down there at the bottom. Assuming one of those is Paolo, Ben Caro. Taron. Lou being on here. Come on, Ty. Lou.
- [40:56]
Esperaheny
That's what I'm saying.
- [40:57]
Ben
All right, silly.
- [40:58]
Dave Dufour
It's. These are fraudulent.
- [40:59]
Ben
Yeah.
- [41:00]
Dave Dufour
What do the players know about coaching anyway?
- [41:02]
Esperaheny
This one particularly, it was just a little lazy. I think they. That's what it came down to.
- [41:07]
Dave Dufour
The. Okay, the, the last. The last of the polls is who's the league's best defensive player. And 41 said Victor women. Yama Shocker. Yeah.
- [41:16]
Ben
What a shocker. When you're allowed to goal tend like that. No, I'm kidding. Spurs fans. I am kidding. I'm kidding.
- [41:23]
Dave Dufour
Wow.
- [41:24]
Ben
Yeah, wow.
- [41:26]
Esperaheny
Thoughts? Fired. Don't go to the state of Texas.
- [41:29]
Dave Dufour
The more interesting list to me is like, once you get to the guards and wings. Second is Chris Dunn and Kawhi Leonard, Scotty Barnes and Jaden McDaniels. Asar Thompson. Like that. Imagine that as a starting five. Chris Dunn, Kawhi Leonard, Scotty Barnes, Jaden McDaniels and Asar Thompson. The players do know who can guard. That is, like, whether. Whatever you say, like. Because often players will tell you about their favorite Hoopers who could score. And you know, Carmelo Anthony, one of my favorite players ever. A lot of players love him. Right. Not necessarily efficient, which doesn't go over well in our environment. But on the defensive end, when they tell you a guy can guard, like, they're. They know that. And that's actually some of the. The most reliable information I think when we get from NBA players, you know, sometimes they tell you the best stories on a. Like when they're on a podcast. Some of the best stories are, oh, this guy had to guard me. And it Was awful, right?
- [42:25]
Esperaheny
Yeah.
- [42:26]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [42:26]
Esperaheny
I am shocked that. Well, not shocked, but there's something to be said. Dyson Daniels and Lou Dort being a lot lower than I think folks would have anticipated.
- [42:37]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [42:38]
Esperaheny
Daniels, I would imagine him to be a little bit higher up. Ludor. He's fine where he is.
- [42:44]
Dave Dufour
Rudy Gobert getting 2%. And again, I assume it's Anthony Edwards is one of the guys that. That has voted for Gobert. There. There is a Dort being unliked around the league by other players. You know, like, I think is a thing.
- [42:57]
Ben
Dyson Daniels personal thing versus it being about his basketball. That's what it feels like.
- [43:03]
Esperaheny
I. I don't know about that one. I feel like the players are feeling out the game. And actually, because here's the thing. You also have a level of respect for how you execute your defense.
- [43:11]
Dave Dufour
Sure.
- [43:12]
Esperaheny
Right. And some folks might look at. And. And I've heard players say. And red players being like, you know, he's very physical in Ludor is what I'm referring to. Yeah, he's very physical. Right. Someone that leads with their hands or their body or their upper torso versus with their feet while they're getting their angles right. That is something I've heard about Dyson Daniels. That's why I was a little bit more curious about where he landed. Asar Thompson is someone that leads with his quick twitch, fast reaction, you know, So I feel like that makes a lot of sense. Same with Jada McDaniels. We've seen him, like, all the way up the court, 94ft, like, all the way up the court. Garden folks moving his hips all the above. But the. That was interesting to see Dyson, Lou and Rudy be evenly distributed.
- [43:56]
Dave Dufour
The biggest name missing.
- [43:58]
Ben
Oh, who is it for you? Because I have one.
- [44:00]
Dave Dufour
Draymond Green.
- [44:02]
Esperaheny
Oh, my God, he is not here.
- [44:04]
Ben
Oh, that's a great.
- [44:06]
Dave Dufour
No Draymond Green, no Derek White.
- [44:09]
Ben
The. The guy I was actually going to bring up is Bam out of bio.
- [44:12]
Dave Dufour
Oh, yeah. Because I think.
- [44:13]
Ben
No, Bam is also crazy.
- [44:15]
Grainger Announcer
He just.
- [44:15]
Ben
He does not a lot of love.
- [44:18]
Esperaheny
They got 0.7% Bam and Derrick White.
- [44:20]
Dave Dufour
Oh, okay. They were in the bottom.
- [44:21]
Esperaheny
But it is worth noting that Draymond got not one vote.
- [44:26]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:27]
Ben
That's crazy to me. I think he's one of the best
- [44:28]
Dave Dufour
defenders of his generation and was very good this season. Yeah, I mean, he's. They had a pretty good season defensively, you guys. Let's talk about the tonight a little bit. The games a little bit. Joel Embiid is going to Miss game, too. We watched. I mean, I don't know that this matters at all for the Knicks. I think it hurts the Sixers offense quite a bit. What do you guys think? Can. Can the Sixers do anything to. To make up for his absence?
- [45:02]
Esperaheny
Oh, that's a big question mark.
- [45:05]
Dave Dufour
They're gonna play faster. They're gonna probably. I'm assuming we're gonna see a lot more threes. Like, I would take more than nine shots.
- [45:13]
Ben
Yeah, I think that's the one part. It's like you're gonna have to have a more aggressive Tyrese Maxey, and so, yeah, just take more than nine shots, put more pressure on the defense. You guys hit the nail on the head with attacking Jalen Brunson and how that. How important that is. I think Maxi is huge to that, so just that aspect will help the Sixers. I also think between Drummond and Bona, they have like, Mitchell Robinson esque players that can crash the offensive glass, help them win the possession battle. Just give them more shots, just more ability to, like, have offensive possessions. Yeah, maybe that's the way that they.
- [45:51]
Dave Dufour
I. I'm expecting more Bona than Drummond just because I think defensively, Bona is going to just be able to hold up a little bit better drumming there. The Knicks will just destroy them, I think, if they go heavy drumming minutes. I don't know. It's. I hate to say it, man. Feels. Feels like the Knicks might just run right through this.
- [46:10]
Esperaheny
Yeah. Especially if Embiid isn't going to be consistently healthy. I mean, it already seemed like they were just down in energy, which made sense considering how quickly they had to turn around from Series one. But to go into a game like game one, to lose the way they did and then not have your star player for game two, that's just tough.
- [46:34]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. We got Wolves and Spurs. Game two in the Wolves. Can the Wolves win another one in San Antonio?
- [46:42]
Ben
Absolutely.
- [46:43]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. Repeatable performance from. From game one, Was there anything that you felt like the spurs could just, hey, this is an easy solve for us.
- [46:54]
Esperaheny
I feel like.
- [46:56]
Dave Dufour
Go ahead. Yeah.
- [46:57]
Ben
I. I wonder if they were caught off guard with how quickly Anthony Edwards was available. And so maybe they didn't know or maybe. I'm sure they were planning to some degree, but maybe they didn't have every single option available to them when it comes to, like, hey, what we're gonna throw out at Ant and what that takes away from the Timberwolves offensively, especially to start that fourth quarter. Like, maybe you. Maybe you have it so that Wemby and Ant share the floor. Right. Like say every time. Ants on the floor, Wemby's on the floor. Maybe you have it so that like Nas Reed isn't the guy who's spacing out with Wemby there. You talked about the pre swishing yesterday, Dave, but like just making sure Wemby is near the rim more often. He's on the floor. Those are the things that I look for if you're the spurs to just try and clean up so they. I feel like the spurs will tie the series tonight. But yeah, if you were to tell me Minnesota goes up 2 nothing, I honestly wouldn't be surprised.
- [47:57]
Esperaheny
Yeah, I. So I think the spurs will make the adjustment to ensure that Wemby isn't putting up 0 for 8 from 3. And more than anything, it's not that necessarily he stops taking threes, but he's more towards the basket. And I think that last play of the game is indicative of exactly what they need to do. Dylan Harper, Maxi Castle, go to the rim rather than, you know, settling for outside shots. And Dear and Fox literally can't be who he was the other night. That's just. I just don't think it's possible. But he absolutely can't. And I think that is going to be a boon for them and a catalyst for their offense, period.
- [48:36]
Ben
Yeah, they have to find a way to unlock Wemby. That's a good point.
- [48:39]
Dave Dufour
Like Wemby has to score. Like he has to score inside. Yeah.
- [48:42]
Esperaheny
And he has to score easily.
- [48:44]
Dave Dufour
Yeah.
- [48:44]
Esperaheny
Right. Get the lob over the defense, get him in transition like that. It needs to be quick buckets quickly to get him going and then letting. Letting him set up in the half court on the way back.
- [48:54]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. And again, this is where Rudy Gobert comes into play. His ability to guard one on one, it makes a big difference. You know, if the help doesn't have to come. Wemmy doesn't have the passes available necessarily for. For the outside shot. But yeah, I don't know. It's going to be. It's going to be interesting. Chris Finch is a very good coach, so I'm sure that he's got. Again, we saw the curveball in the end of the fourth quarter when they really started being aggressive at screening Wemby away from the ball. I'm curious to see what they do when the spurs counter that. So anyway, we'll be back tomorrow morning with more NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with us for the shoot around. If you haven't already, join our discord. We're hanging out watching games. The link is in the show description so it's very easy to join. For Esperani and Zena Keda, I'm Dave Dufour and this is Ben, the NBA Daily's morning shoot around. Thanks for hanging out with us.
- [49:45]
Esperaheny
Thanks y'. All.
- [49:47]
Ben
Bye.
- [49:59]
Grainger Announcer
If you work in University maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [50:29]
Discover Announcer
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card hey honey, it's Mom.
- [50:54]
Verizon Mom
Did you know if we switch to Verizon we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line? Call me back me again. That's just $100 a month for four lines on unlimited welcome plus four phones. No trade in needed. Call me. It's mom. America's best network Verizon. That's the one we're talking about.
- [51:12]
Dave Dufour
I'll send you text America's Best Network based on RootMetric's best overall mobile network performance US second half 2025 four new
- [51:19]
Boost Mobile Announcer
lines and unlimited welcome and auto pay.
- [51:20]
Dave Dufour
See verizon.com for details.