Host 1 (4:09)

I. I gave the broadcast podcaster Jinx.

Dave DeFore (4:12)

That's right.

Host 1 (4:13)

Would we call it the Podcaster Jinx? Yeah, I remember, I think like three weeks ago, it was me, you and Hunter Patterson.

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He.

Host 1 (4:20)

He was in Detroit or he was in. He was in Denver.

Dave DeFore (4:23)

Yeah.

Host 1 (4:24)

And. And he was basically doing the game versus Detroit. And Jamal Murray went to the line twice to try and nail that game and get the Nuggets the win, and he missed. And it was the same situation. He got fouled up three, ended up losing. And this time it felt like the Nuggets didn't have a chance anyways because the Clippers pulled away multiple times in clutch. Brook Lopez had this like wide open drive to the lane dunk, which.

Dave DeFore (4:49)

That should have probably been an N1 actually. Yeah.

Host 1 (4:52)

And then the Clippers were up four. Murray hit a three, got them in position to get fouled, but just missed the free throw. This is a guy who's like an 88% free throw shooter, so just bizarre for him to have multiple opportunities like this to. To brick and choke a game that is.

Dave DeFore (5:09)

We gotta give credit to the wall. She was shooting those free throws into the wall. I mean, you've, you've experienced the wall a Lot of pressure. Listen, it's pretty loud. I mean even. Even what? The little fan section that they had at all Star Game. A lot of that I think exception because it's such a steep angle. I mean it looks like a lot of people. It's a sea of people. So we're going to give credit to the wall not, you know, anyone else on the free throw defense personally one

Host 1 (5:34)

day try to sneak into the wall with the opposing team's jersey just to see if I could pull it off.

Dave DeFore (5:40)

Yeah, I think I feel like security is going to throw you out. The Clippers, they run a tight ship around there. 23 continues to, you know, to be pretty good. Although not this wasn't his, his best game. A little bit of minutes limit for him, but it was a team effort for them. And we gotta tip the cap to Benedict Matherin. His Clipper home debut puts up 38 points off the bench. That's a season high 12 of 13 from the free throw line. And s. This is sort of the thing that they brought him in for. You could see where he fits. If he can be, let's say a lower budget Norm Pal for them th this team. Maybe it's not so much of a drop off. Losing James Harden.

Host 1 (6:26)

I think he could hit the highs of a Norm Pal too. You know, I mean Norm is obviously now an all Star and he had an all star caliber season for the Clippers last year. But I think Matheran has the capability of putting up nights that remind you or can at least replicate what Norm provided for this Clippers team. I mean Matheran was a guy who was on a finals team for the Pacers last year. He had some huge moments in the playoffs for them. So I know he can get to that level. It's just about doing it consistently. And also like shot selection is always going to do a thing with Mather. And so once he was starting to feel it in this game, you could see he was forcing it a little bit too much, but they needed it. And, and I, I thought he was awesome. He, he got it in multiple different ways, whether smart cutter, free throw line

Dave DeFore (7:09)

and you see where they could use that. I mean just some of the stuff that he's going to bring over from that Indiana system totally, I think will help. He had a crazy finish on a layup off of really nice cut to the basket late in the game. I just, I couldn't believe he made that shot.

Host 1 (7:23)

Yeah, once Garland comes back, man, I don't know, the Clippers might be cooking with something but who knows? They might.

Dave DeFore (7:28)

We'll see. Brook Lopez kind of bounced back, you know, had a big, had a big block down the stretch of this game. I, look, man, I, we can't take the Clippers seriously after trading away two of the three best players. But pretty big win for a team that's still like hanging in, in the play in race. The Nuggets, though, I just feel like the Nuggets want to fast forward to the playoffs. They, they need Aaron Gordon back. This defense, are you not concerned at all? I am concerned.

Host 1 (7:58)

Okay.

Dave DeFore (7:58)

I'm very concerned about the Nuggets defense. Nicola Jokic, look, he's the greatest offensive player maybe ever in NBA history. But what's happening right now on defense, it, it looks like he's just disinterested. I don't think he really wants to run all that hard right now. I, I guess I get it when you've had this much success and they're,

Host 1 (8:19)

they've been hurt all year and all that.

Dave DeFore (8:22)

I understand, like, look, it's a long season. I can get it. But man, I've got some real concerns because come playoff time, you know, are they going to be as sharp? You know, they haven't had all year to kind of get their stuff together. You know, you're hoping Aaron Gordon can come back here in the next couple weeks and you've got time to rebuild that chemistry. Remember Cam, Cam Johnson still hasn't really looked great when they've been at full health. Like we haven't seen what that looks like and some of these other guys like that they're missing. Peyton Watson's had not been out there. Julian Strother, I think is a guy they need to figure out how he fits when they're at full health. He hit six threes last night. I mean, that's a guy that I think you're gonna need. So I still, there's. There are questions about the Nuggets for sure.

Host 1 (9:05)

It's hard. Like how much do I take into consideration that this is the 24th best or if you will, worst defense right. This season? Like this is a team that's supposed to contend for a championship. It's basically unheard of for a team with that poor of a defense to win a championship. Yeah, like there, there are maybe a few examples in NBA history. So how much are you going to take that for the injuries or is it going to be, I don't know, something that they can work in as the season progresses, you know?

Dave DeFore (9:38)

Right. I mean, again, extenuating circumstances are what they Are they have not been healthy. But it raises a lot of questions. Kevin Durant, by the way, answered every question for the Rockets every single time they, I mean every time they needed a bucket. Did he not, did he not deliver the last 10 points of the game for the Rockets? Scored by Kevin Durant. The Rockets, they beat our Hornets S 105. 101. Now I will give the Hornets we're going to tip the cap. They're down two starters right now. They were hanging tough, had a chance to win the game, but you know, look, what are you going to do, man? Kevin Durant is just, he's automatic sometimes. Yeah.

Host 1 (10:16)

And especially you're not going to win that many games when Brandon Miller is 5 to 22 and the ball is 5 14. Like the, the shooting was tough here for them and I, I thought they made a game of it. Regardless. There was a huge three con canipple hit in that fourth quarter too to help the, the Hornets try to get involved in this game. But to your point, man, Kevin Durant was incredible in this game. 35 points hit this incredible clutch shot in the dying seconds of this one to really seal the game. Yep, those are the type of stuff that they, that's, that's what they need from Kevin Durant all year.

Dave DeFore (10:48)

He also. I, I don't think that we've talked about this at all this year, me and you. He had three blocks in the first quarter of this game, had a steal. He is having a pretty impressive two way season at 37 years old. I don't know that we've ever seen anyone defend the way that he has actually at his age because normally by then guys stop but he can't on this team. You know, like they, they actually need him to, to defend it the way he has. And I don't, I don't know if I've seen anyone bring this up, to be honest with you.

Host 1 (11:20)

Yeah, I'm glad you brought it up because I think especially with Shangun is having a down defensive season, like he's not having some of the same qualities we just talked about with yo right. Very much so apply to Alper and Shangun. But that's why Kevin Durant has had to cover so much. And the wing trio, if you will, of him, Jabari Smith Jr. Amen Thompson, Tari Eason when he's on the floor. Those guys have had to paper over a lot of issues, especially at the point of attack with Reed shepherd and then at the back line with Shengun. They have to paper over a lot credit to Kevin Durant. He's, I think he's always been an underrated defender but just being able to one be this help side rim protector for them, clean up stuff when Shangun isn't there. It's a huge part of what he does. Also he has to make and take tough shots all the time so his responsibility is insane on these Rockets.

Dave DeFore (12:11)

But they held this hornets team to 101 points which is, that's, that's something Ime Adoko he coaches up the defense quite, I mean extremely well. Finding out ways to guard like lamelo ball, point of attack. I like how they mixed it up. Sometimes it was a man, sometimes you're

Host 1 (12:29)

becoming a Rockets believer.

Dave DeFore (12:31)

No, definitely still don't believe in this. It's too hard for them, right? Every single thing is too hard for them. But with that being said, there are bright spots and, and you know this is a dangerous team. You've got Kevin Durant and in any playoff series he can be the best player still somehow, which is crazy. Guys, stick around after the break. We got James Edwards here. We're going to talk about the Knicks. What's going on with Carl Anthony Towns and whether Cade Cunningham is the mvp.

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Dave DeFore (14:21)

The Pistons and Knicks face each other again their first game back from the All Star break. And yet again the Pistons hand the Knicks an embarrassing loss. Here to be forced to talk about it. Our guy, James Edwards. James. The Knicks kind of blew their opportunity to shake things up at the deadline. I mean, Jose Alvarado is a nice pickup, but nothing big for this team. And the same problems that we saw leading into the break, still there. Pistons just a much better team. And. And at this point, man, I just want to know what do you think about where the Knicks and Pistons are at this point of the season?

James Edwards (14:57)

So, yeah, it's tricky to navigate because when the Knicks were in the Midst of that 2 and 9 skid, they were really struggling. I wrote a column that they need to shake things up. Like they need some form of big trade. Whether it's move on from Cat, whether that's. Maybe use Mikel Bridges to bring extra pieces in. That was something I really thought like the feng shui. The furniture needed to be changed in the group.

Dave DeFore (15:20)

Right.

James Edwards (15:21)

And then they go on the whatever game winning streak right at the deadline. And they look good. And I'm like, I have to. As a respectable and somebody who takes their job seriously. I was like, I need to write that. You know what? The front office did a good job by holding. Holding court and letting this thing ride out. And it looks like the Knicks have turned a corner. But I still said I would have made a big trade, and I'm not. It doesn't mean just necessarily honest. I just think that this group with Cat and how they're playing, you can say it's the system. You can say it's Kat, whatever one it is. You just cannot have Carl Anthony Towns just not be a threat offensively. Like, why else would you get them right? And it's whether it's somebody else's fault or not. They got to figure it out. He's. He's struggling with his three ball. He's not making threes. He's struggling around team to.

Dave DeFore (16:13)

To be fair.

James Edwards (16:14)

Yeah, yeah. Tonight. But in general, this was. You look at his numbers. I think what 33, 34 from 3. The Knicks need to find a way to utilize Towns in this system. I'm not sure if they can. We have a large enough sample size. And then for the pist. Listen, they have Paul Reed starting and credit to Paul Reed, I think he gets a bad rap. Like he would be a backup on. He would be the Main backup on 20 teams in the NBA and start on a few. Probably.

Host 1 (16:39)

Yeah.

James Edwards (16:40)

But they didn't miss a beat. And I think that was one thing Knicks fans were able to hang their hat on. Well, they beat us. We didn't have OG and Josh and Kat in the last one. Well, this time they pretty much had everybody except McBride. The Pistons without two of their top five players and the Pistons one handily. So it's, I mean, credit to the Pistons. They're the best team in the East. People keep trying to find a reason to say they're not the best team in these, but at this point there's, there's, there's nothing to say they have

Dave DeFore (17:04)

the best record in the league right now.

James Edwards (17:06)

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I, I think the Knicks specifically, I just wonder about this group and its chemistry. I just think having Cat and not being able to get the most out of him offensively is. And again, I don't want to say they're not getting the most out of him. It's. It's a two way street. Yeah, he's got to be better and, but just not getting the legitimate offense that you need from Karl Anthony Town just feels like it's, it's destined for something not, not great going forward.

Host 1 (17:33)

It also feels like you're constantly playing this uphill battle when you have to deal with both Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns on defense. Like you're already kind of behind the eight ball there because teams can constantly put one or both of those guys in actions. And while, while I love the wing trio of the Knicks, like they can't solve all of their defensive problems. Right. And OG can only do so much. Mikhail can only do so much off of the ball. Teams are really smart of like finding ways to not get those guys involved in actions. And I thought Cade Cunningham did an incredible job tonight of being like Jalen Brunson. Let's have this dance. Carl Anthony Towns. Let's have this dance. How are they going to solve that problem, if they even can solve that problem heading into the postseason?

James Edwards (18:25)

Well, I'm not sure that they can without doing something super drastic, which would be like, they're not going to. They, they're not going to. And they shouldn't limit Jalen's minutes. Jalen's an incredible player and an MVP candidate and all these things, but I wonder if they knew if they had more faith in Mitch's health, would they have made a move? I mean, maybe. Now do you say, do you cut Carl's minutes? Do you play him more with Mitch? But then it takes. It's at the end of the day, the Cat's not necessarily still getting the offensive production that you want from no matter who he's out there with. And you're not. What are you gonna do playing 20 minutes a game, you're not gonna do that.

Host 1 (19:05)

It's hard to do that to a fifty million dollar player.

Dave DeFore (19:07)

Yeah.

James Edwards (19:07)

And that's kind of where, that's kind of the law. I've been saying the long winded version of that is like it's not that Cat's not a good player, it's that it's very clear that the system plus where he's at right now in his career, it's just not working. So why try to force a round peg into a square hole? Right? Like it's, it just feels like it's, it's not going to work now. You know, things maybe change. He's hit some threes and we're, we're looking at this later and it's goofy but I've said, I said that two months ago and the shooting hasn't come back around. So when it comes to Jalen and Cat, listen, I think the defense has shown that it can play okay tonight. I thought Cade was giving it to everybody. That was OG Mikhail. Like it was every. It was a take your turn and that's just Cage a great player.

Dave DeFore (19:54)

Right.

James Edwards (19:54)

But certainly, I think, but you see the Pistons strengths is you put Jalen on a sar, right because he's the non shooter. But Asar is much bigger. He can just get the ball in the post and go over him. It's hard, it's harder to put Jalen on certain guys on this Detroit starting lineup as opposed to other teams. But I would always live with that because what Jalen provides on the other end.

Host 1 (20:17)

James, I'm kind of curious. If you were to give this Knicks front office truth serum, would they redo the Cat Julius Randall trade?

James Edwards (20:25)

That's tough to say because they did make the Eastern Conference finals last year, right?

Host 1 (20:29)

100%.

Dave DeFore (20:30)

Yes.

James Edwards (20:30)

Yeah, I think so did the Timberwolves

Host 1 (20:33)

on the other side.

James Edwards (20:34)

That's true. So that's a spicy question. I would say yes. I would say yes. And I don't necessarily. I think all the things that have come with it, obviously it hasn't always looked great on the court. They were able to put it together in the postseason last year. I think this year it's very clear that like Cat's not super comfortable in Mike Brown's system. That's a great question. I think it's a hard question too.

Host 1 (21:01)

I know I put you on the spot, so I'm sorry, but.

James Edwards (21:04)

No, no, no, no. I, I think they would because when they made the trade, I didn't think it Addressed their biggest needs, which they lost basically another creator because Julius could do that. They lost depth with Dante. I think they've done a. A good job of trying to replace adept. Obviously Mitch has been healthy. Bride plays Landry Sham. It's been really good for him. Like they've been able to piece it together a little bit, but they also, I think what. They lost a protected first in there. I think that that package might have got them something else that I think would have similar results to what they've gotten so far.

Dave DeFore (21:41)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you think the Pistons would take Cade Cunningham first overall if they had to do it again?

James Edwards (21:50)

Yes, they definitely have a question.

Dave DeFore (21:51)

Listen, man, this guy is. Is pretty nuts right now. Had a crazy game last night. 42 points, 13 assists, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, a steal. Was 5 of 11 from 3, which of course is a weak spot for him. He turned it up and he does turn it up against the Knicks and especially in New York. This is kind of personal for him. They have the best record in the league right now. The Detroit Pistons do. They won this big game without Jalen Duran. Their second best player. Cade Cunningham puts on this type of performance. Where's he slotting in your MVP rankings right now? Because I think that the. The needle is starting to move in his direction a little bit.

James Edwards (22:30)

So I think this is, this is how I look at it. Obviously, I think most people agree Shea and Jokic are the. The two best offensive talents in the world now. They're both on the fringe of missing out on postseason awards. Right. Like, can Yokich only miss one more game? Is it?

Dave DeFore (22:49)

Yeah.

Host 1 (22:50)

Jokic is. Is on that line. And I think SJ has pro 10

Dave DeFore (22:54)

more games right now. Yeah.

James Edwards (22:57)

If the Pistons finish with the best record in the East, I think you have to really consider Cade as the mvp. If the Pistons finish with the best record in the NBA, I don't see how Cade's not the mvp. This is what I find so funny about the Pistons discourse. Everybody, when they're talking about them, they're trying to figure out ways to say why they're not the best team in the east or why now why they're not the best team in the NBA or they should have made this move for a secondary ball handler at the deadline. Cade needs help. They're number one in the NBA. And according to everybody, Kade doesn't have help. So how is he not the MV. You know what I mean?

Host 1 (23:37)

If like 2014, he would be the clear cut MVP candidate because of that.

James Edwards (23:42)

So everybody keeps saying Cade Needs help. They need this and they need that. But they're the number one team in the NBA. So either the other guys aren't as bad as people think. And I agree that they could use a secondary ball handler.

Dave DeFore (23:54)

Right.

James Edwards (23:55)

But they're the best team in the NBA. And his second best player is a traditional center and his third best player might be Isaiah Stewart. And then there's a Sartan. Like we're talking about guys who are hard nose, play your ass off, but we're not talking about like 30, 40 point per game scorers. Right.

Dave DeFore (24:12)

Like Duncan Robinson is a major piece for this team.

James Edwards (24:17)

His second best player last year in their, in their postseason was Malik Beasley.

Host 1 (24:22)

Their second best score right now is Tobias Harris.

Dave DeFore (24:24)

Right, Right.

James Edwards (24:25)

Hey, so for, for all, for all the reasons we're trying to find out why the Pistons aren't the best team in the east or in the NBA. It kind of to me also proves Kate's point as why he's probably the mvp. Again. It's between him, Jokic and Shay to me. And I think what Cade's doing, if they finish with the best record in the NBA, I don't see how he doesn't get it.

Host 1 (24:48)

Do you think. Cause he just recently had this quote, he had a. He thinks he's the best American in the world, basketball wise. I feel like there's at the Edwards, Kawhi Leonard, Steph Curry obviously have very, very good claims to that. Right now it feels like Cade has a very good claim to best American in the world too.

James Edwards (25:08)

So I have a funny story with that. When he got drafted, as you guys know, I don't know if everybody listens. I covered the Pistons for seven years. I've been away for a year and a half. But I was there for CAD's three and a half, three or four years. When they drafted him, the front office, somebody in the front office told me he's going to be the first American born mvp. That was direct words from one of the people who were involved in drafting him and drafting others and all this stuff. So yeah, yeah, you people want to say Anthony Edwards, people want to say Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, right. Jalen Brunson. Kate has as strong a case as anybody, obviously, right? Like his team is sitting at the top of the, at the top of the ladder, reaching for the belt.

Dave DeFore (25:59)

Okay, so come playoff time, you've seen, you've seen the, the Pistons quite a bit. I'm gonna start picking people's brain because we're really not that far away from the Playoffs. How do the Pistons lose in the playoffs? We see all the ways that they win. That defense is just. It's stifling. How do they lose?

James Edwards (26:15)

So they're still. I know Knicks fans probably don't believe this. They're not a good three point shooting team. Except when they play the Knicks. They have a. They have a magnet ball against the Knicks. Javante Green gets it going. It's across the board. There's a world where they go completely cold from three in a whole series. Like, that's a real thing. And it's like, while they're the best defense, they're going to face some pretty good defenses too. So that's it for me. Maybe you see teams just deciding to blitz Cade, which they're going to do, and they're just not able. Just that lack of secondary playmaker just

Dave DeFore (26:50)

cannot dribble at all.

James Edwards (26:51)

Yeah, there's not enough reads. They're not making the right reads. They're just not making good decisions. Attacking the rim, like that's a possibility too. But to me, it's like, if this team, this team's gonna defend, do they make. Do they make enough threes to. Cause I think if they, if they're shooting the three ball, well, they can blow teams out.

Dave DeFore (27:09)

Yeah.

James Edwards (27:09)

If they're not shooting the three ball, they're gonna be in close games. It's a matter of can they win those close games?

Host 1 (27:14)

And you know what? To bring this back to the Knicks for a second, the Pistons do a great job of like, hey, our offense isn't going right now. We're going to drag you into the mud and force you to play this grimy style of basketball that we thrive at. The Knicks, if it's not easy, it doesn't work. Right. If this, if the offense isn't free flowing, if the shots aren't falling, it's just, where do they go from there is the big issue for this Knicks team, you know?

James Edwards (27:43)

Yeah. And that was, I think, in the first half. Like, I didn't think the Knicks played terrible in the first half. They did miss a lot of open threes and a lot of good looks, but the defense has been so up and down. And listen, Cade's a tough cover for anybody, but you spend all that capital on Mikhail, you spend all of the capital on og. You shouldn't be bringing in Jeremy Sohan to try to slow him down at the end of the game. Right. Like, that's something that they're going to have to figure out if these two teams mean it, like how do we stop Cade? Because right now there's been no, I mean, last year they did a good job of it in the playoffs, but that was Cade's first playoff series. That was right. This, this Cade was really good last year. He's different this year. So the fact that they struggle so much with, and it's not just cad, but they do struggle with bigger ball handlers like that. So the Knicks defense is up and down. It shouldn't be as up and down as it is. It's, there's, there's some really good pieces there, but there's, there's just something about their struggles with guys of Cade's ilk that I think is really gonna, that could bite them in the end.

Dave DeFore (28:46)

Yeah, well, no matter what happens with the Knicks, we know it'll be worth reading James Edwards because James Edwards, one of the best sports writers in America. Everybody go and read him at the Athletic. I mean, come on, James, you know, thank you guys.

James Edwards (28:58)

That's very nice.

Dave DeFore (28:59)

Yeah, well, we gotta gas you up. Keep you coming on the show. Thanks to James Edwards for hanging out.

James Edwards (29:04)

Thanks to Sbir Henny.

Dave DeFore (29:05)

As always, I'm Dave Dufour. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with.

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