Is Nikola Jokić having the best season ever?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Is Nikola Jokić having the best season ever?

Date: December 29, 2025
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni (“S”)

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Overview

This episode centers on evaluating Nikola Jokić's historic season, explores whether he's having the best individual season in NBA history, and takes the pulse of the evolving MVP race. The crew also provides insights on the San Antonio Spurs’ impressive run against the Thunder, the shifting narratives around top teams, and dives into the fortunes of the league’s most puzzling franchises in a segment called “Something, Nothing, or Everything.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The San Antonio Spurs as Oklahoma City’s Kryptonite

• Thunder's Difficult Stretch: The Thunder, once seemingly unstoppable, have hit a skid, particularly struggling against the Spurs who are now 3-0 against them this season (02:46–05:00).

• Why the Spurs "Own" OKC:

  • The Spurs' build is pointedly designed to expose OKC’s weaknesses:
    • Athletic wings, powerful guard trio, elite rim protection with Wembanyama.
    • Zena notes: “They are built to dismantle the Thunder… The Spurs don’t have to change to beat OKC—they’re just themselves.” (05:57)
  • Dave points out Victor Wembanyama’s defensive versatility and ability to always be the ‘low man’ on defense, neutralizing OKC’s paint attacks (07:20).
  • The Spurs’ positional size allows them to match and counter the Thunder’s physical guards like Shai, Dort, and Jalen Williams (08:52).

• Is This a Rivalry for the Future?

  • “That’s why everybody hypes this up as a rivalry… they look at the Spurs as a worthy rival.” — S (04:45)

2. Are the Spurs Contenders Right Now?

• The crew debates whether the Spurs could actually win the championship this season (11:22).

  • Dave hesitates to put a ceiling on the Spurs, citing their depth and growing star power: “They have Victor Wembanyama, who by the end of the season might be the best player in the world.” (11:31)
  • Esfandiar and Zena highlight experience as the only real question mark, but rave about their depth and adaptability.

• Notable Moment:

  • “It’s funny that we’re saying this after they just got wrecked by the Jazz… A secret buzzsaw there.” — Dave (12:37)

3. MVP Race Update & Is Jokić having the Greatest Season Ever?

• With the Thunder cooling, the MVP race is wide open—it’s now mainly between Jokic and Shai, with possible outside shots from Wembanyama and Jalen Brunson (12:57–19:13).

• Jokić’s Historic Numbers:

  • 30 PPG, 12 RPG, 11 APG — leading the league in rebounds and assists.
  • 72% True Shooting, 61% FG, 44% 3PT, 85% FT.
  • Responsible for an absurd 96 points in a single game (13:43).

• Stats Contextualized vs. NBA Legends (14:33–15:49):

  • Jokić’s current stats exceed or match career highs from icons:
    • Scoring: Shaq’s best—29.7, Jokić—29.8
    • Rebounds: Malone’s best—12.0, Jokić—12.4
    • Assists: Kidd’s best—10.8, Jokić—11.1
    • FG%: Kareem’s best—60.4%, Jokić—60.4%
    • 3PT%: Bird’s best—42.7%, Jokić—44%

• Quote of the Day:

  • “Take some of the legends—the best of Shaq, Malone, Kidd, Kareem, and Bird—and you get Jokić. That’s insane.” — Esfandiar (15:58)

• Caveats—Stat inflation?

  • Dave plays devil’s advocate but admits: “This is as close as we’ve seen someone come to solving the offensive side of basketball.” (16:27)

4. Something, Nothing, or Everything? League Rundown

Raptors/Scotty Barnes

• Scotty Barnes: 23 points, 25 rebounds vs. Warriors—out-rebounded all Warriors starters (23:05–24:38). Seen as clear All-Star trajectory.

Bucks/Giannis

• Giannis’ Statement Dunk: 29 pts in 25 mins with a buzzer-beating dunk. Zena argues it was about “re-establishing the Bucks’ identity.” The panel notes his emotional candor in postgame interviews (24:38–25:57).

Cavaliers Collapse

• Cleveland Cavs: Season described as a “disaster,” below .500 and trending down in every metric.
  • “If we talk about anything today, this is it. The Cavs are cooked. I think eventually they have to blow it up... this is DEFCON 1.” — S (26:48–27:55)

Bad Teams Upsetting Good Ones

• Nets, Jazz, Wizards: Recently surging, but Zena calls it a “nothing burger” long-term: “Come spring, we’ll see the true separation.” Dave notes it’s more fun when ‘bad’ teams stay competitive (29:44–30:12).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They’re built to dismantle the Thunder.” — Zena Keita (05:57)
• “I can’t put a ceiling on this Spurs team. They might not have any limit.” — Dave DeFore (11:31)
• “What we’re seeing from Jokic—this might be the best season anyone’s ever had.” — S (13:57)
• “This is as close as we’ve ever seen someone come to solving the offensive side of basketball. It’s one guy.” — Dave DeFore (16:27)
• “If there’s anything we talk about today, this is it: The Cavs are cooked.” — S (26:48)
• “Take some of the legends—Shaq, Malone, Kidd, Kareem, and Bird—and you have a Nikola Jokic.” — Esfandiar (15:58)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:46 — Spurs dominate Thunder: rivalry and match-up analysis
• 07:20 — Wembanyama’s defensive brilliance
• 11:22 — Spurs’ championship ceiling debate
• 12:57 — MVP race opens up; Jokić’s historic stat line
• 14:33 — Contextualizing Jokić’s stats vs. NBA greats
• 23:05 — Raptors/Scotty Barnes All-Star talk
• 24:38 — Giannis and Bucks’ identity
• 26:48 — Cavs collapse and possible rebuild
• 29:44 — “Bad” teams putting up real fights

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Conclusion

The episode masterfully balances lighthearted NBA banter with in-depth analysis, centering on whether Nikola Jokić is authoring the greatest single-season campaign in league history. The panel dissects tactical battles, team identity crises, and league narratives, serving up vivid comparisons, memorable stats, and spirited debate. This episode is a must for listeners seeking a pulse-check on the state of the NBA and context behind headlining performances and team trajectories.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for December 29, 2025. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperahenny and Zena Keda. Coming up, the spurs own the Thunder, man, the Thunder falling like a rock. And we got an MVP race update. And after the break, guys, we're going to talk about some happenings around the league and whether they're real or not. Good morning, everybody. What's up, guys?

[Esperahenny]

Hello.

[Zena Keda]

Hello.

[Dave DeFore]

Been a minute. Hope you had a great little Christmas break. Absolutely. It'll be another short week for us. This week we're gonna. We're gonna take New Year's off.

[S]

I was offered a tofu turkey, Dave. I feel like that'd be something.

[Dave DeFore]

Is good. I had that at Thanksgiving and surprisingly good with a mushroom gravy.

[S]

I agree.

[Dave DeFore]

Fantastic.

[Esperahenny]

Wow.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, no, let's.

[Esperahenny]

Let's move on, everyone.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

Hey, guys, we talk all the time about narratives, right? Like this. The NBA is a narrative league. It's one of the ways that you, that you kind of. We cover the sport that way. But also it was a good way to watch it. The storylines, they just shift daily, it feels like. And man, what a world of difference in our opinion of the Oklahoma City Thunder from two weeks ago when we were all in Vegas, that first loss to the Spurs, I mean, we were all kind of shocked. And at this point, guys, they're. They're 6 and 4 in their last 10. It's, you know, a little bit of, I think the luster maybe has fallen off. Part of this is they ran into the spurs team. That is a bit of a Thunder buzzsaw. They're now 03 against the spurs after dropping the back to back games. Yep. With the last one being on Christmas. They. They lose that game to the Wolves. We talked about how the Wolves just, they. They tend to do well in these sort of high pressure games against teams like okc. So I just want to ask, and s. I'll start with you. Did the spurs solve the Thunder or are we just watching, you know, maybe the Thunder get into a harder part of their schedule?

[S]

Yeah, they're the antidote. You know, they are the team that's been built to destroy the Thunder. And I Think that's why everybody hypes this up as a rivalry. That's why everybody looks at this and says this is going to be the NBA for the next five years. Because they look at the spurs as a worthy rival. And it's happened quicker than we expected. Maybe not all, but it's happened quicker than we all expected for the most part. And I think part of that is this team has been constructed in a way that matches so incredibly well with what the Thunder struggle against athletes on the wings, a guard tandem or trio that can get into the paint at will. And the other part is they're perfect when it comes to guarding Jalen Williams. And they are not afraid of Chet Holmgren. You look at how they attack him on the offensive end. They're not afraid of the rim protection. They basically every other team is. It just, it's a match made in heaven for the Spurs. And I think now as you said, Dave, I think it's on the Thunder to answer back. It's how are you going to respond the next time you guys play each other? That's, that's why it's a rivalry.

[Esperahenny]

What I love most about what you said S is that they are built to dismantle the Thunder. And when you watch teams play the Thunder, you often see them come out of character trying to become the Thunder, right? They try to run in transition, they try to be extra aggressive on the wings on defense. They try to get their, their offense to come from turnovers into offense. That if that's not your game, that's not your game. The thing about the spurs is that is just a part of their game. They can play the half court and they can play the fast game that the Thunder like to play. And what you see is basically the spurs decide, you know what, sometimes we'll run off of our turnovers that we generate, but a lot of the times we're just going to hammer it to you in the paint in the half court and you are not going to know what to do with that. They, the, the Thunder do not do well with the spurs paint touches. The spurs pretty much take away their mid range game. They don't really have much of a mid range game when they play the Thunder which goes against what the Thunder like, they like to get in those passing lanes, they like to try and force you into those little pockets and then they smother you and then they run the other way. The spurs don't have to do that. The other thing that like really works for them defensively. We saw this live. And it was really cool to point this out. I think, Dave, you were the first one to point it out to me of how quickly Victor Wembanyama always switches out with whoever man is going low. So he remains the low man.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh yeah.

[Esperahenny]

And that makes things so difficult for the Thunder because they are now evading the. The paint drives that they typically do all up and all day against other teams. And so between Victor Wenyama on defense being the low man at all times, or on offense being the guy that's spaced out bringing Chet Holmgren out of position, they are just set up perfectly on both sides of the ball to take advantage of what OKC typically wants to do. And it's within their character. It's who they are. They don't have to become a different version of the spurs. And in order to be successful.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, and then the other thing that WY allows you to do is those guards who they can guard. The spurs have three all NBA level guards on their team. And, and these guys are going to be. I mean we're going to be talking about Castle and Harper especially for years. I mean Fox, we already know who he is, but I think that these other two guys are, are just. People are going to wake up over the course of the season. I got to say, I didn't know Steph Castle had this in him. Dylan Harper, I, I know has been highly touted, but Steph Castle is the guy who's really impressed me the most. But Wemby being. Being so committed to being the low man and being out and help and not really chasing like, you know, he makes a lot of mistakes. We talk about this, but he's able to make up for it. But then those guards get to push up real far because Wemby covers more space than absolutely any human being on.

[S]

By the way, that is what the Thunder do with Chet. They can pressure as high as possible because they know they have one of the best room protectors in the back line. It's just that the spurs can do ex. Exactly that.

[Dave DeFore]

Exactly positional size there too. Right. This is the other thing OKC has. Their guards are big. There's. They're, you know, like Shea is a big guy. He's not. I mean he's skinny, but he's. He's six. Six. Lou Dort big. They put pressure. Alex Caruso, Jalen Williams, like these guys, they put so much pressure on you physically that they break down smaller guards and the spurs can hold up. I mean, Dylan Harper, you know, we, we talked about this in that Cubs game the spurs lost, you saw Dylan Harper when he was leaning on Jalen Brunson and you could just see how much bigger he is than, than the average kind of point guard out in the NBA. So you've got.

[S]

It's.

[Dave DeFore]

It's really like what the spurs have built. It's similar to if you think about the Timberwolves being built with the Nuggets in mind, only the spurs have really built a Spurs version of this special basketball team.

[Esperahenny]

And to your point about the guards though, and the size, like, I'm happy you brought up the fact that they can pressure early because that's another thing that when it comes to beating okc, it's really also beating Shay. Right. And finding a way to contain Shay. And we know that Shay is elite when he has single coverage. But when you've got Dylan Harper, t' Von Castle, Devin Vassell, de' Aaron Fox rotating in those guard positions, they send early help and it makes Shay either give the ball up a little bit earlier, pass out to his teammates and. And they also have late contests. They have both available to you. And so it just. You see Shay like in the contest this year, his free throw rate has not been that great. Again, he's not getting to the line as much. He's not getting to Lions. So that also helps from the guard perspective.

[S]

Yeah, I honestly think that's why if these two end up playing in the playoffs, it has to be a big Jalen Williams series. It has to be a big Chat Holmgren series on offense. It's those guys that are going to be the determining factor because Schaefer is most, for the most part, even if he didn't get to the free throw line like got his own. Right. It's those guys that are the difference maker between this being a very good playoff team, winning 60 plus games. And you know the team we were talking about, which is 70 plus games.

[Dave DeFore]

Which 74 is off the table, right?

[S]

It is now off the table.

[Dave DeFore]

And 70, I think is a stretch when you, you know, you look at some of this team's flaws and it does feel like the league maybe is trying. Everyone's always trying to catch up to the Thunder, right?

[S]

The schedule is getting harder too. Like they haven't played the Nuggets yet. You know what I mean? I want to ask you guys this about the Spurs. This might sound a little crazy.

[Esperahenny]

I like crazy.

[S]

Can the spurs win the championship this year?

[Dave DeFore]

What did I say on that Saturday night?

[S]

I'm just throwing it out.

[Dave DeFore]

I was Maybe a little bit punchy because it was late night in Vegas and we had just watched, you know, six hours of basketball. But I. Guys, I cannot put a ceiling on this spurs team. They have veteran presence. They've got guys who've been there before and played in big games. They have Victor women, Yama, who by the end of the season might be the best player in the world. Although we'll talk about Jokic in a little bit. Yeah, and I, I just. Again, they've got three guys that I think you could make a case for. Well, I mean, Dylan Harper hasn't played enough, but you see it there in the future for him. So, you know, I don't know.

[S]

Experience is the only thing holding them back, right? That's the one thing.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah, experience for sure. The consistency in Victor Webanyama is like something that we. We still have to see pretty, you know, pretty evenly. But it. It does. It is hard to put a ceiling on it. Mainly to me, because of the depth. Like, they've got the people that can come in when whoever's on foul trouble, whoever's tired, whatever. They've got other people that can step up. They've got a roster, dude, like.

[S]

And they match up well. The number one team in the west, right?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. It's funny though, that we're saying this the day after they got wrecked by the Utah Jazz.

[S]

In that game.

[Dave DeFore]

A secret buzzsaw there. Chianti George. Okay, so look, 74 games okc. That's off the table. It was a hell of a start to the season, though. You got to tip the cap.

[Esperahenny]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

Also, guys, MVP race. It's officially back open. And part of this is, you know, we talked about this.

[S]

Is it back open or probably always open?

[Dave DeFore]

I will say I had Shea as the front runner because best player on the best team. And obviously he's putting up crazy numbers. Right? Like he backs it up with his defense as well. But at this point, I think you probably, most people are probably leaning Jokic now that this Thunder team doesn't feel as special. And especially because we watch Jokic just have. I mean, look, 56 points, 16 rebounds, 15 assists. It 96 points responsible for in the game from Nicola jokic. He's averaging 30 points, 12 rebounds, 11 assists. So he leads the league in rebounds and assists. 71.8 true shooting. Okay, so ridiculous. Number 61% from the field, 44% from three, 85% from.

[S]

It might be the best season anyone has ever had.

[Dave DeFore]

And again, he's done this five years in a row.

[Esperahenny]

Exactly. And he didn't get it last year, which is insane. Okay. S, both of us have seen this unbelievable tweet from Tommy Beer on X. Let's split it up. And telling Dave, who doesn't know how, what this tweet is laying out. But basically, Dave. Yeah. Tommy Beer is putting Nikola Jokic's insane season in context. So I'll take the top two and you finish out the bottom. S. Okay. All right. So Dave, Shaq's Shaq.

[Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Esperahenny]

Shaq. Shaquille O'. Neal. His career high scoring average was 29.7 points per game. That was in 1999-2000.

[Dave DeFore]

This year, 29.8.

[Esperahenny]

Exactly. Nicole Jokic, 29.9, depending on where you're going, but yes, 29.8. Just a little higher. Just a little higher.

[Dave DeFore]

We round down in my house.

[Esperahenny]

There you go. There you go. I respect it.

[S]

Yes.

[Esperahenny]

Karl Malone, career High rebounding average, 12 rebounds per game in 87. 88. Nikola Jokic, 12.4 rebounds per game. Okay. S. Take it out. Take it away.

[S]

So Jason Kidd's career high assist average was 10.8 in 1998. 1999. Nicole Yokic, right now, 11.1. And as you said, the league leader and assists. Kareem Abdul Jabbar's career high field goal percentage was 60.4% in the 7980 season. Nicole Yic's field goal percentage right now 60.4%. Larry Bird's career high three point shooting percent.

[Dave DeFore]

This is great.

[S]

Is 42.7. Jokic's right now is 44%. And just throwing other things.

[Dave DeFore]

They.

[S]

They are now the number one offense. They are also technically the number one offense in NBA history because that's just how the league is going.

[Esperahenny]

So take some of the legends of the game. Just like, recap it real quick. Shaquille's best scoring, Karl Malone's best rebounding, Jason Kidd's best assist, Kareem Abdul Jabbar's best efficiency on the floor, and Larry Bird's best three point percentage. And you have a Nicola Jokic. That's insane.

[Dave DeFore]

Is this where I become the old guy and I say stats inflation, sure.

[S]

You can do that. You can be a party pooper if you want.

[Dave DeFore]

These numbers are amazing. This is as close as we've ever seen someone come to solving the offensive side of basketball. As close as we've ever seen. It's one guy, you know, I mean, you think about just how much he's responsible for on the court, for that team in the half court. Yeah, probably The. He's probably the most valuable player to ever play.

[S]

Yeah. I think it's also worth noting that like the, the team that they've built around him is in my opinion the best it's ever been.

[Dave DeFore]

And they're down three starters and they're missing three starters.

[S]

Right. But Murray is having a career year and the other guys and Tim Hardaway Jr. And Jonas Valanchunas, they've been like plug and play. Spencer as well.

[Esperahenny]

Jones has been a gem for them.

[S]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[S]

And so I, I feel like that has helped him also have his best season of his career because he work like a machine. It. It's absurd.

[Dave DeFore]

They lose the game, you know, on a Payton Watson miss shot. And you think you go down the list of guys who probably would have been sitting in that spot before him. Aaron Gordon, you know, Aaron Gordon, it would Christian Brown, you know, and again Jokic makes the right play, you know, again Shay, I mean it's neck and neck. It's basically a two man race this year. It's going to be between Yic and Shay and you know, maybe, maybe, I don't know, guys, maybe like Wemby could sneak in there. You know, when you look at what.

[Esperahenny]

Would we need to see from Wemby to even try and dismount even one of these guys from the top two.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean he's going to be the defensive player of the year for sure.

[S]

So he has the defense element.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[S]

The, the box score on offense needs to obviously get to a higher point. And also maybe there's a chance they lap the thunder. Like what if they end up the first seed right in the west now.

[Esperahenny]

And now it's best team on the best player. I mean the best player on the best team. Like how does that, would that be enough for you, Dave?

[Dave DeFore]

I would say, I mean it's amazing. It's amazing we've gotten here. Although I, I still think Jokic, when you think about the carry job that he's doing being down, you know, the number of guys they are. Jokic is. His numbers are crazy. And the I. The Nuggets are going to win a lot of games. So I think that it's probably right now Jokic is the front runner. If you, you know, if you're just looking around the general consensus since the last time we talked about, I mean.

[S]

What we just showed you with the stats, it just.

[Dave DeFore]

Shay is right behind him. But what about Jalen Brunson? What do they. If they're the one seed in, you know, in the east and he continues to score like this. You know, I know the Pistons are kind of. They're scuffling a little bit here recently, but Cade Cunningham's had a pretty nice start to the season. You know, we talked about Luca's ridiculous numbers. I just don't think the Lakers are. I don't think they're at the level. Yeah, exactly. Contention. Yeah, I agree. Anybody else? I'm not thinking about.

[S]

No, I think that's it.

[Esperahenny]

I'm definitely going to have to put up a Jalen Brown with the Boston Celtics. I have to.

[Dave DeFore]

How? Hey, listen, what he's doing. Scoring. He had his ninth straight 30 point game on Sunday, which ties Larry Bird for the most consecutive 30 point games in Celtic.

[Esperahenny]

It's.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, that's crazy numbers. Inflation. Though.

[S]

They have a top five offense and top five net rating right now.

[Esperahenny]

Yes, they do. And they're slowly creeping up that Eastern Conference standings. And I just feel like they're doing it quietly. They're like, don't worry about us. Don't. Don't focus on the Knicks. Focus on the Pistons. Hell, focus on the Raptors that are somehow still number four. Speaking of in the East.

[Dave DeFore]

Spoiler alert. Stick around, guys. After the break, we're gonna play the game that's sweeping the nation. Something, nothing or everything.

[Esperahenny]

Guys.

[Zoey]

Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Brusky]

This thing weighs a ton.

[Dave DeFore]

Brusky. Lift with your legs, man.

[Esperahenny]

Santa. Sant. Did you get my letter?

[Brusky]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[Esperahenny]

I'm not.

[Zoey]

Of course he did.

[Dave DeFore]

Right, Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Brusky]

And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile, you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus?

[Zoey]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Zoey]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Brusky]

My side of the tree is slipping, Kimber.

[Dave DeFore]

The holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month credits.

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[Zoey]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Dave DeFore]

All right, guys, it's time for a little something, nothing or everything. That's where I talk about a thing that's happened over the last few days and you guys let me know if it's something, if it's nothing, or if it's everything. And s Look, we just talked about the Raptors. You get the 905 there. What are they, 19 and one now.

[S]

They are 18 and one. Yes, that is correct. By the way, the one doesn't count because it was a tournament cup final, much like the NBA cup final does not count. They're still undefeated.

[Dave DeFore]

How about that? That's the best start in G League history. Maybe. I don't know.

[S]

Yeah, at this point it is.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

All right.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. Well, Scotty Barnes had an amazing game on Sunday. RJ Barrett's back in the lineup. The Raptors get a win over the Golden State warriors, who kind of just not quite what what we thought they were going to be this season. Scotty Barnes, 23 points, 25 rebounds. Man, what is going on with this guy?

[S]

He out rebounded the starters for the Warriors. All of them.

[Dave DeFore]

Nine offensive rebounds so talk. Talk to me about the Raptors, man. Is. Was this game something, nothing or everything?

[S]

I mean, Scotty was something.

[Esperahenny]

I was gonna say, yeah, that's where it matters.

[S]

I think he's well on his way to an All Star birth, especially because of the Raptors kind of staying afloat in the standings. They're going to get an All Star and he probably ends up being the guy for them, especially because of what he does on the defensive side. He had four stocks tonight as well. The rebounding is insane, though. You saw him after the game lie down on the bench because of how tired he was. I talked to Dark or Yakovic about this in the preseason, of how the way they throw Scotty into the rotation is a little bit different than anybody else because of how much energy he exerts on any given stint. So they'll go four stints of shorter rotations instead of what's typically a two or three stint thing per half. It just. It goes to show you how much energy that guy exerts on a night to night basis. A lot of his game is based on energy. So when he brings it like he did tonight, yeah, he's one of the best in the league.

[Dave DeFore]

Crazy rebounding performance. Giannis is back, guys. The Bucks, I don't know, they're gonna turn it around. He had 29 points in 25 minutes. Zena looked really good, had a disrespectful dunk, I guess, according to. I don't know, man, play until the buzzer goes off. How about that? You don't want to go ahead and dunk at the end of the game, Xena, play some defense.

[Esperahenny]

Listen, I said that he did that dunk because he wanted to establish the Bucks identity. And I think that is a really fair and valid point. Without him on the floor, they are not who they want to be, dominantly, at least defensively. And that's what I feel like that dunk was kind of just like, listen, we're here, I'm here, right? This is the theme that we keep hearing from Giannis. We're here and I'm here. Stop thinking about what's going on with the trade market, what's going on with, you know, outside of this team. And I think that dunk was a little bit of a statement piece. So I think, do. I think it's something for the Bucks? Not really, but I think it's something that Giannis is still trying to make a statement with the Bucks, and he.

[Dave DeFore]

Feels like he's playing with a little bit of A chip on his shoulder right now. I don't know if you guys caught the interview after the game, you know, where someone asked.

[Esperahenny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

He was like, do you want to be here? And he's like, okay, that's disrespectful to.

[S]

My team a little bit.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, I guess. But also it's a relevant question, you know, I mean, you.

[Esperahenny]

I'm happy that it was asked because we would have not gotten that bite.

[S]

Exactly.

[Esperahenny]

Not.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Actually had it not been asked. But him on the floor is a positive for the Bucks in all aspects. So they need every ounce of force at Gianna Springs.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Cavs got blown out by the Rockets, man. This is just. This has been. To call it a disappointing season, I think is an understatement. This is almost. Almost embarrassing. Can. When you compare them year over year, you would think there would be maybe improvement. We talked about this being an experimental year for them and they just cannot win games. They're 17 and 16 on the season, 4 and 6 in their last 10s. Every single indicator is trending down for them. Y. Darius Garland's had a bad season when he's been on the court. They obviously they've had more health issues this year. I don't know. I. I feel like the Cavs are cooked and they're in the second apron. This is the most expensive team in basketball.

[S]

This is everything. If there is anything that we talk about today, this is it. That it's everything. I think the Cavs are cooked. I think eventually they will have to blow it up. It just. Or at least make grand changes to what they're doing roster wise. It was obvious, I think, last year that they probably were going to make some changes to the Jared Allen, Evan Mobley and Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell quartets, if you will. They need to do that now. I think it's time for them to make those changes. And to your point about how expensive they are. Yeah. This is a team that was supposed to contend, supposed to be. Be near the top of the league in the Eastern Conference, but they're middle of the pack offensively. And the. The shocking part, I think, to a lot of people is how bad they've been on the defensive end. A lot of that is because DeAndre Hunter hasn't been who he's needed to be for this team on the defensive end. At the same time, they're missing a bunch of guys rotation wise and a Max Stru who hasn't been healthy for them yet. Lonzo Ball hasn't been who they've wanted to yet. This is everything. This is. In my opinion, this is like DEF Con one for the Cavs.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, it's.

[S]

It's over. I think we're just seeing the ship sink a lot slower than we probably.

[Dave DeFore]

It's going to be a crazy trade deadline. I just. There's so many people that feel like they're on the move. And let's just say a couple weeks ago we talked about how maybe the trade deadline would be so cool because the Thunder looked like they were running away with things. And we just exist in a different world now. The one thing I will. I mean, but it's wet. It could be Wemby's world. That's what everybody's got to be worried about right now.

[S]

All right.

[Dave DeFore]

Finally, guys, couple weeks ago, you know, start coming out the NBA not happy about how people are talking about tanking the way it's being perceived. You know, there's the whole gambling angle on this. They're trying to solve tanking. Well, what if they solve tanking by just sending these teams? I don't know what they did. Did they send a memo to the Jazz, the Nets and the Wizards? They're playing better basketball, number one. I mean, the winning games, right? And the Nets are playing defense. Michael Porter junior's having an insane season. You know, the Wizards just beat the Grizzlies with Ja and Jaren on the court, which, you know, not been a great year for them. So what's going on, guys? Xena look good teams losing to some of these bad teams. Quote, unquote, bad teams. Is this something? Is it nothing? Is it everything? Am I onto something here? Did the. Did the NBA tell these. These teams to be serious?

[Esperahenny]

You know, there might have been a message sent out, might have been a text. But you know what? Long term, I don't think this is anything. I think this is a nothing burger. I think that, yes, these bad teams are playing faster, they're scoring more, they're playing a little bit harder defense. But really, these teams are eventually going to end up separating themselves when it comes to March and April. And we're going to be like, wow, it was so fun seeing them be competitive early this winter. But, yeah, I. I'm looking at this as nothing.

[Dave DeFore]

I wish really are fun. By the way.

[S]

They've been fun all season. They've been fun, are pretty competitive. Like Keonte George is. Is blossoming. You know, maybe the most improved guy this year.

[Dave DeFore]

Maybe they have something.

[S]

Maybe there's like something and a half. I don't know.

[Esperahenny]

Well, this is the thing though. The. The Utah Jazz have been putting up crazy numbers on a ton of people all season long.

[Dave DeFore]

But yeah, yeah.

[Esperahenny]

Does it mean that they're winning games in the long term?

[S]

Sure, sure.

[Esperahenny]

They're going to entertain us, which is great.

[Dave DeFore]

But hey, it might be one of these things. Maybe there, there's a moneyball situation. There's got to be something where these bad teams that have crazy offense, like, they can juice the stats. Think about like Michael Carter Williams when he was rookie of the year. You know, he just play a ton of minutes, put the ball in his hands a bunch. It's like using like closers in baseball and just. Anyway, all right, I digress. Been fun. Way more fun when these bad teams play hard and we get to actually see them compete. Guys, that's gonna do it for the show. Thank you for listening. If you're watching on YouTube, like and subscribe, if you're. Wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us a five star review if you like the show. If not, don't bother.

[Esperahenny]

Guess what?

[Dave DeFore]

We read all the reviews anyway. All right, guys, thank you for listening. Brazena can and Esperahenny. I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

[Zoey]

Guys. Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Brusky]

This thing weighs a ton.

[Dave DeFore]

Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.

[Esperahenny]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Brusky]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[Esperahenny]

I'm not.

[Zoey]

Of course he did.

[Dave DeFore]

Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Brusky]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Zoey]

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[Esperahenny]

Nice.

[Brusky]

My side of the tree is slipping.

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Zoey]

Visit t mobile.com Hannah Burner are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're buying?

[Esperahenny]

Paige desorbo they are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.

[Zoey]

So generous.

[Esperahenny]

Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear, and best fitting loungewear.

[Zoey]

So nothing for your bestie?

[Esperahenny]

Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and you?

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