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- [00:01]
John Krasinski
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- [01:14]
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- [03:21]
John Krasinski
All right. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Basketball 100 podcast. A podcast based on the book written by many of us here at the Athletic. We're here to count down the top 100 players in NBA history and discuss and debate their place in the NBA hierarchy. I'm your host, John Krasinski. I cover the Minnesota Timberwolves for us here at the Athletic and I am joined today by Law Murray from LA and Fred Katz in New York. And we are going to break down players 60 through 79 in our basketball 100. I'll just run through them real quick before we get to the podcast itself. Number 79, Alex English. 78. Paul Gasol. 77, Sam Jones. 76, Jerry Lucas. 75, Alonzo Morning. 74, Bill Walton. 73, Hal Greer. 72, Paul George. 71, Robert Parrish. 70, Tiny Archibald. 69, Billy Cunningham. 68, Chris Weber. 67, Earl Monroe. 66, Carmelo Anthony. 65, Damien Lillard. 64, Dennis Rodman. 63, Dolph Shea's 62, Wes Unselled. 61, Dave Cowens and 60, Tracy McGrady. T. Mac himself. So, fellas, excited to get into this with you guys A little bit. How's everything going for you guys out there?
- [04:45]
Law Murray
Ready to talk some basketball history?
- [04:47]
John Krasinski
Can't wait.
- [04:49]
Law Murray
Let's do it.
- [04:49]
John Krasinski
Murray. School Islam. Murray, what do you got?
- [04:51]
Fred Katz
Yeah, yeah. And like, first of all, it's such a privilege to talk to you guys and that we had this book to discuss. Not. I mean, this is, this is just a great opportunity to talk real ball. Like, so let's, so let's get into it.
- [05:08]
John Krasinski
Yeah, let's get into it. We just, we'll just jump off right away, guys. I think a good way to start this is just to say when you look at this list at these, you know, 20 guys, what player Just kind of elicits the most joy, the most excitement for you. Just on his face. You read that name, you say, yeah, that's my guy. We'll start with you, Law. What do you. What do you think?
- [05:31]
Fred Katz
I mean, shoot, man. I got to write a Paul George chapter after covering him for a few years. And it's funny, he made our top 75, but he wasn't a top 75 guy by that blue ribbon committee or whatever it was called. And we talked about that, and I'm sure a lot of guys have a case for saying, yeah, I should have been on this list. You know, I should have been considered more. But to see what Paul's been through is one thing. To see the kind of player that he has been at different points and peaks of his career, it was great to see that up front. But also, I'm a. You know, I ain't that old. You know what I'm saying? I got to watch Paul George before I got to Wright, and to be able to sit him down and get a piece of his bond and to see that he's still putting his legacy together, like that dude's on a max contract, you know, deep into his 30s, like the last guy of his draft class, you know, I think that that was a bridge privilege for me. And it's pretty cool that we expanded this list long enough to not only get him on it, but to say he's top 75 on our list.
- [06:49]
John Krasinski
I've certainly covered Paul for. For a while, just. But like, never directly and never up close. Like, what was it, what's it. What was it like covering Paul George kind of day to day with those Clippers teams?
- [07:02]
Fred Katz
The human element of sports is like a big thing that I feel like gets lost in the fact that we are talking about a game, we are talking about, you know, physical activity, I guess, but this, it's a community, right? And so you just saw for me, having to cover him, like, there's the basketball part, but there's also, like, how he interacts with other players around the league, whether they're stars like Kawhi Leonard, whether it's someone like Russell Westbrook who. He saw Russell Westbrook at his lowest point. And this dude goes after the trade deadline and speaks his name in public to make sure that was the final push to get him on his team again. It's stuff like that. Like, Paul really is a loyal guy, maybe to a fault sometimes, but, like, the basketball part almost became secondary for me, Paul, because I knew what I was getting. If I was going to watch him in a game, in a building. It's the other stuff, like how he was like, is he going to bite his tongue or is he going to just say what's on his mind this time? You know, I remember telling him, it's like, look like you're stamped. And you know, just say what you gotta say. You ain't gotta, you ain't gotta worry about me, you know, and so like, I learned a lot from Paul and I can, I can say that as. And like, you know, now he's got a pod, so you don't, you don't need me or Fred or anybody else. But like, I mean, it's been cool to see him progress and understand that he, you know, his voice is. First of all, we are gonna listen to him no matter what he say, whether it's good or not. But like, he has real basketball experience and real basketball perspective. And I think, you know, understanding that those two things are not mutually exclusive, I think that's been a real privilege for me in my career.
- [09:01]
John Krasinski
Fred, who's the name that jumps out to you on this list?
- [09:05]
Law Murray
I mean, I think like law, you kind of end up having the inclination to choose somebody who you covered. And I covered Carmelo Anthony for a year when I was a Thunder beat writer and he was in Oklahoma City. And I always found him to be such a dynamic character in NBA history. One of the most interesting people, I think, of his generation. You know, you talk about him as a great player, 10th on the all time NBA scoring list, and you know, a Hall of Fame career and all of that. To me, Melo's entire career, the story behind his career is actually more interesting than the career itself. Him as a human being, him as this kind of larger than life character, as this very controversial type of player, almost an Iversonian sort of reputation in the league where you've got half a fan saying, this guy just wants to score, and half a fan saying, but he scores so well. Look at that. Look at all the stuff he does that literally nobody can do. There was a point not that long ago where it was pretty much universally agreed upon that when we talked about who's the best pure scorer in the NBA, who can score in an elite fashion in the most amount of ways, he was the answer to that question. And basically everybody agreed until Kevin Durant kind of came around and then we kind of had the, the debate in the basketball world of, okay, is KD a better pure scorer than Melo? And he probably passed them in that conversation. But this is a guy who had almost 30,000 career points, who won a scoring title, who did win more than, I think his reputation says went to a conference finals with the Nuggets, and who did things his way throughout his career in a way that I think was sometimes. Sometimes the not ideal way for what his career could have, could have the direction that his career could have gone, but was a relatively harmless way to anybody else. I mean, I think you look at some of the great players and the great scorers and the guys who have that sort of divisive reputation in league history, and they're guys who will stand on their own ground in spite of how it affects other people. And Melo, anybody who has covered Mellow, been around Mellow, been around people who have been around Mellow, talked to teammates who have played with Mellow, coaches who have coached Mellow, all that kind of stuff. Look, he had his issues with certain coaches. George Carl, obviously, very famously. Exactly. Didn't get along great with. With. With Mike d' Antoni when he was in New York. And that was really something. I think that stemmed more from basketball. But you talk to his teammates, and it's like he was a really beloved teammate. It's incredibly. Still is an incredibly dynamic personality. Who would have thought that the first two guys who we talk about also, both of them have their own podcasts. He's got this. This incredibly biting personality and this wide array of interests beyond basketball. His. His absolute love of wine. And he's got his own wine label now. Right. And he's got. And he's got, you know, he's this very successful businessman and investor outside of basketball and all the community work that he does. He's this really interesting character. He's the only player who I ever covered who heckled me when I was on deadline. That is a true story.
- [12:43]
John Krasinski
It was.
- [12:43]
Law Murray
I'd be in the Thunder locker room. It would be after a game. I had a 10:30 deadline to get my stuff in for the newspaper so that it could go to. So it could go to print. And the game, you know, it would be like 10:10, 10:15. And we. I'd be running back and forth from the scrum in the middle of the Thunder locker room, and I would run back to my computer and type things in. And like, those who don't know, like, the game ends at 9:45, and you are. You got to have a whole story done in 45 minutes and ready to go. And you got to get the quotes and everything. And I'm running back and mellow knew my deadline was 10:30. And at like 10:27, he'd come up to me and he would just point at my screen and just like say right into my ear, like, you gotta type faster than that. One time. One time he said to me, oh, that line's trash. Like, he had this extremely fun play. Why am I talking about him? He's not here anymore. He still has an extremely fun, playful personality. And I think that personality kind of defines his legacy as, as a player that sort of like there will never. There might be another score at Carmelo Anthony. There will be other scores at Carmelo Anthony's level. He's not the best scorer in NBA history though. He's one of them. But there won't necessarily be anybody who has the overall all encompassing career in terms of that type of personality, that type of division. The way that he responds en masse to those sorts of critiques and kind of the, the way that he carried himself throughout his career and has built himself after.
- [14:15]
John Krasinski
Well, yeah, and we, you know, we talk about. This is the basketball 100 podcast, not the NBA 100. And I still think most of what we did in compiling this book was about the NBA and their careers there. But you cannot tell Melo's story without Syracuse and that unbelievable national championship and without the Olympics and, and how successful he was as a scorer at the Olympics. So when you look at the career in totality and I mean, he fully justifies, you know, being on this list and, and where he's at, maybe even higher. But the other part about it is, I do think, you know, kind of similar to when you look at quarterbacks in the NFL now and the way that sort of scoring has evolved. Melo was a gunslinger. Like, and, and I wonder how, you know, I, I get warm feelings thinking about the Mellows, the Iversons, like those types of players who, you know, were they the most efficient all the time? Maybe not. But like, did you want the ball in their hands when you needed a bucket? Absolutely. And, and he's one of those guys that is maybe, you know, not as common these days of just like, you know, I'll, my foot will be on the line and I don't give a damn, I'm taking the shot and just going with it. Like just a wholly kind of unique player. Especially when we look at, in the context of today's game.
- [15:35]
Law Murray
Well, his game just had so much personality. I mean that, that's really what it is. That's what's, that's what's so that's what inspired such strong reaction. Like, everyone has a strong opinion on Carmelo Anthony. Either that dude is unbelievable, one of the best players I've ever seen, or that dude shouldn't have played the way that he played and you should have played a different style. Like, everybody has a strong opinion on Carmelo Anthony, and I think part of it is because of kind of what you're talking about. Like, he. He played in a way that was just very particular to him, and he played with so much personality. Like, I will never forget that. You know, guys will call off teammates when they're going for rebounds, right? They'll. They'll scream, I got it. Or me or whatever else. And, you know, so, you know, two guys don't go for the ball at the same time. And clunks off one of your head and goes out of bounds. And. And. And Melo. Same thing every time. Get the F out of here.
- [16:35]
John Krasinski
He didn't say F. That's right. Yep.
- [16:37]
Law Murray
Get the F out of here. You can hear him on the rim mics. Get the F out of here. Get the F out.
- [16:41]
Fred Katz
The way I heard. The way I heard that before you even said it. Br.
- [16:45]
Law Murray
100%. I'll never forget Stephen Adams saying to Melo at one point when. When Melo said that to him on a rebound to get the board. And. And Stephen Adams just turned to him and said, you have to be so rude, mate. And I'll. I'll never forget that one. But he. He just has so much personality. Think about the different mellow personalities, the different mellow Personas that all came about over the years. We have Olympic mellow. We have hoodie mellow. We have all these different sorts of mellow personalities. Like, he is a Persona. He is. He's someone who kind of transcended basketball, transcended the sport. He. He became famous to people who don't follow basketball. And part of that was because he played for the Knicks, but he was so big from such a young age, and his run at Syracuse was, you know, one of the best one and dones of all time, obviously. And, you know, I think he passes the mom test, which is what I like to call when. If I ask my mom, have you heard of this guy? That's. That's a test of that person has transcended the sport, because my mom does not follow basketball. My mom's heard of him, and my mom could probably tell you a lot about Carmelo Anthony, and I think that's. That's a big part of him.
- [18:10]
John Krasinski
Yeah, the great stuff. My, my pick for this list is Chris Weber. You again, kind of looking at the totality of his career and his, his NBA career was very good, especially what, you know, in Sacramento. And the, the, the way that he was part of such a beautiful offensive game that Rick Adelman ran with the Kings and the way that he evolved his career after some injuries to still be incredibly effective and change from this overpowering guy to this incredibly skilled, talented fulcrum of. Of an offense the way that he was as a power forward with the Kings. But also obviously, like, I mean, the Fab Five stuff is just from my youth is as legendary a group as you could ever ask for when you're coming up with Michigan and changing the way that we looked at basketball, quite literally changing the way that we looked at athletes and what they should have coming to them and, and, and how prescient that was now for the nil era. But those Fab 5 teams were just breathtaking for a kid who I was in middle school, early high school when they were, when they were going at Michigan and how much excitement and what a sensation they were. And he was the man on those teams and just this ferocious, you know, tiger in a cage kind of a player that, that completely dominated and was, you know, rose above just being a basketball player similar to Lamello. He was a symbol for a movement within the game and outside of the game that I think so many people related to. And if you were young and you were trying to rebel against your parents or something, you'd look at the Michigan guys with the baggy shorts and the black socks and, and all these things and like, and, and take your cues from how they operate and how they moved and their swagger and their trash talk and throwing lobs from half court and all of that stuff was just like adrenaline coursing through my body every time I watched it. So I always had just a huge appreciation for C. Web. I really respected how he was able to navigate the. The pro side of his career and, and become a great player in this league, even if it wasn't quite this maybe the player we envisioned when he first was drafted. And so, but, but one of those guys that was just seminal in my fandom growing up watching the game and, and seeing it, it just, you know, CWA was, was a huge, huge factor for me kind of growing up as a kid.
- [20:46]
Law Murray
A very cool part of his career is that in multiple spots he was part of like an awesome swag team. Yes, because. Because in, at Michigan that's obvious with the Fab Five. And that's, you know, one of the iconic college basketball teams. But those early 2000s Kings teams, my goodness, those teams were so fun. One of. One of the most fun teams ever not to win a title, I would say.
- [21:17]
John Krasinski
No question.
- [21:18]
Law Murray
I don't think that's a bold call at all. I mean, with Weber and Peja and you had Jason Williams just throwing the most ridiculous passes you've ever seen. And obviously Mike Bibby and Bobby Jackson winning six man of the year. And like those teams, Vladi throwing passes, I mean, the passing on that team was off the charts because Weber was a hell of a passing power forward in an era when power forwards, yeah, 100%. Like, that was a. Heck, those teams could pass like crazy. And those teams were fun and they played fast and they came really, really close. And maybe if there wasn't a ginormous league changing scandal, they could actually have had a ring. And everybody would think about the Sacramento Kings completely and utterly differently in their history. And those teams would be thought about completely and utterly differently. So I, I think that's, that's like a cool career.
- [22:18]
Fred Katz
You know, even before Sacramento, like Golden State drafted, I mean, they acquired him. You know, he was a Magic draft pick, but first overall, he is in a draft day trade with Penny Hardaway. The warriors made the playoffs right in his rookie year, and he was playing out of position, doing it for Don Nelson. They wind up trading Chris to Washington, and Golden State entered one of the longest postseason droughts in NBA history. Immediately afterwards, Washington wound up making the playoffs in 1997. We know the history of that franchise. Like, they wound up trading him for Mitch Richmond and they spent nearly a decade out of the playoffs. Sacramento ascends with Chris and I mean, you know, he defined the best era of basketball in, in Sacramento. You know, when Chris's knee gave out, we've seen like the Kings made the playoffs the first two years after, you know, they moved on from Chris again. I'm from Philly. I remember I was hyped when the Sixers got Chris Weber. And my, my JV coach was we needed the Chris Weber from five years ago. That was, that was when I learned, oh, I didn't realize that Chris was, you know, past his. But still they made the playoffs when they got him in 05. And it's like Sacramento has literally made the playoffs three times total since Chris Weber, you know, left the franchise. Like, to this day, like, Chris has been one of the most influential players for a lot of teams. You know, the Kings were the peak of it, but he was, he, he was special. And it's a damn shame it took as long as it did for him to get inducted into the hall of Fame. But I'm glad that he.
- [24:09]
John Krasinski
Amen. Amen. Absolutely. One of the things we're going to do on this podcast, generally speaking, I think podcasts are geared toward a younger audience. And so we are going to try to educate a little bit if there are some, some younger folks who are listening to this and wondering about some of the older names on this list. I mean, maybe, maybe you do know Chris Weber, maybe you do know, you know, Carmelo and a few of these others that Tracy McGrady. But there's probably some guys from way back in the day that you don't know as well. And so we'll just go back and forth with some of the guy, some of the names that we're picking out and just kind of give people little thumbnail versions of who these guys were. I'll just start with Alex English at number 79. For those who don't know, he played with the Nuggets when the Nuggets were like the seven seconds or less Suns version, you know, like this kind of go, go, go offense before Dan Tony took over the Suns. And in this was in the 80s and the 70s for these Denver Nuggets. And English played 15 seasons in the league. He was an eight time All Star. He won the scoring title in 1982-83. He did it, guy. Kids, listen, don't try this at home. He did it by averaging 0.13 pointers a game so that there was never a three pointer that was a part of it. He was a 6, 8 kind of forward, you know, slash guard that was just super silky smooth. Had eight seasons where he averaged 25 plus points. And just one of those dudes like that probably is lost to history a little bit. But if you were to ask people back in the day who played against him and were in that league and real stars that you know, hey, who were some of the tougher covers in the league? Alex English, definitely one of those guys. So that was one of the first ones that I had. Fred, why don't you go next with one of your guys?
- [26:07]
Law Murray
Sure. I actually have a little something prepared on Dolph Shays if, if we can do that. So Dolph Shays was a man from a different era, born so long ago that a Jewish family could name their son Adolf with no one batting an eye.
- [26:23]
John Krasinski
Oh man, we need you on these, on these podcasts. We need you.
- [26:28]
Law Murray
A Jewish guy from the Bronx who went to nyu, got a degree in aeronautical engineering and became one of the best NBA players ever. This was truly a different time. So he was unique for his time on the court too. He was 6 foot 8, which was tall for his era, but even though he went third, went pro 30 years before the three pointer entered the NBA, he was sort of an early version of a stretch four. He was a rebounder leading the league in boards during his rookie season, but became known for his skyscraping set shot. He would project his quote air, his, his, his, his jumper with air quotes so high that it earned its own nickname, the Sputnik, named after the satellite that the Soviet Union launched into the Earth's orbit in 1957. He spent his first 15 NBA seasons with the Syracuse Nationals, helping them to the title in 1955 before finishing his career with one year in Philadelphia. He made 12 All Star teams, 12 All NBA teams, and averaged 19 points and 12 rebounds during his career.
- [27:27]
John Krasinski
Pretty damn good law. Who do you got for us.
- [27:31]
Fred Katz
Man? Fred might as well have introduced the hall of Famer in the ceremony, man, for that one, I guess.
- [27:41]
Law Murray
I don't know. I don't think. I don't think that joke would have, would have flown at the.
- [27:44]
John Krasinski
Yeah, it might not have landed in that, in that audience, but we'll not. You never know.
- [27:49]
Fred Katz
So, I mean, I mean, you know, as long as it's not the sps, I think you'd have been fine. I want to talk about Hal Greer. So first of all, again, we put this book together as a staff. Our staff has changed over the years, but I think if you're a part of something, you're always part of something. So shout out to Rich Hoffman for the chapter that he wrote on how we're talking about a guy who played 15 years in the league. But I think if you say that now, that doesn't hit the same as when this guy's career ended in 1973. Like, he retired, I believe, with the most games played in, in league history at that point. And I think something that Rich had pointed out is the fact that he played on one of the best teams in NBA history in 1967. Sixers that won 68 games. No team had won that many games ever before. And there's not a lot of teams that have won that many games since. Like, that was the one team that won a championship in Philadelphia with Wilt Chamberlain on it again, 68 wins for perspective. The Oklahoma City Thunder in 2025 won 68 games. This year there were 81 games in the regular season. So one fewer loss. So technically better win loss record than that 2025 Thunder team. And the great thing about how is he was a small guard who could get to the mid range. Like he jumped on his free throws like he was a he. He was a really great compliment to Wilt Chamberlain, especially when Wilt Chamberlain decided to pass the basketball. So the way his career ended was unfortunate because his last year was on a team that won nine games for the entire season. That is a tough way to go out. But for a guy like Hal Greer, we talk about the mid range game and he was really good in that area to floor. Played through a lot and was a versatile player. A guy who could get his own shot, but also averaged as many as 7.4 assists per game in a season. So one of the best, one of the best sixers of all time and one of the best guards in the 60s overall.
- [30:04]
John Krasinski
Good, good, good stuff. LA I'm gonna go kind of building off the Iron man theme. I'm gonna go with Robert Parish at 71. He went when he was all said and done 21 seasons in the league and we are seeing LeBron and Chris Paul and and a few others play very, very long careers nowadays. But back then to Law's point, when they were flying commercial, when they weren't, when they didn't have a thousand physical therapists around and, and the cutting edge surgery, surgical procedures and things like that, for, for a guy to play 21 seasons in the league, it's just remarkable. And Parish was one of those guys that played for the Boston Celtics for the most part, 14 seasons with Boston and he was part of a big three, one of the original big threes in NBA history with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale. He was certainly the most understated of those three. But if you talk to people who know that team, who have been around it, I've spoken to Kevin McHale a lot about this back, back in the day when he was kind of with the Timberwolves and you know, just the respect that they had for Parish's consistency night in and night out, being the man in the middle for the Celtics, taking on back then, just enormous challenges in the front court defensively against the Moses Malone of the world. You know, just all of the great centers, the Patrick Ewings, all of the great centers that came along, Elijah Juan's, everyone, that was Parish's job and he did it and he never really talked that much. He didn't raise, you know, didn't draw attention to himself. But he was just such a huge part of three championship teams with the Celtics. He was also one of, when you talk about his game overall, one of the first to be freely appreciated for the screens that he set. I cover Rudy Gobert here in Minnesota and in, he's known for his screen assists and the way that he gets players open with, with the cinder block screens that he set. Parish was kind of at the front end of that sort of, you know, trend or that skill set in the way that he set screens to open up things for Bird, for Dennis Johnson, for Ange, for all of the guys with the Celtics. Also, one of the most panned trades of all time was when the Golden State warriors sent both Kevin McHale and Robert Parish to the Celtics for Joe Barry Carroll and really essentially helped build the Celtics dynasty in the 80s with that deal. So Parish will live on, you know, as one of the, in history is one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history with, with that deal. So that's Robert Parish with the Boston Celtics for the most part. Played for the warriors, went around a little bit, but mostly for the Celtics. So Fred, who's your next one?
- [33:09]
Law Murray
I'll go with Wes Unselt. So David Dupree, who is this amazing longtime NBA writer, told me a story once. David covered the Bullets throughout their awesome teams in the 70s and covered West Unsolved for a really long time. And he once told me this great Wes Unsell story where so, so Unseld was this amazing enforcer from the moment he joined the league. He was like the go to tough guy in the NBA. He's still the only rookie to win mvp. He was a rebounder, amazing passer, hounded teams on the offensive boards and in the paint. So this is after a hard fought game. Dupre's in the locker room and he sees Unseld, who had a lot of respect for Dupre. And so they had this agreement as like a beat writer and a player where Unsell would essentially never say that anything was off the record. He would just leave it up to Dupree to decide what he thought he should report and what he shouldn't, which is something I'm sure we've all experienced with particular players who, who we know for a long time and have trust with. And that was kind of their agreement. So Unsell just sitting at his, his locker and it'd been this hard fought game and he's shirtless and he's covered in scratches and bruises, which is the norm, because that's just how he played. He. He's leaning over and he is drinking a beer, and he's smoking a cigarette, which even in the 1970s, had a little bit of a cachet in the public, if a player was just, like, doing that seconds after a game in the locker room. And this is one of the few times that Unsell told Dupree not to write something. So Dupree walks up to him, and Unsell just has his drinking and smoking on display. And he looks at Dupree and he says to him, here's the quote. You can write that I smoked, and you can write that I drank, but you better not write one word about how I'm not indestructible. And I. I love that story. I love that story. That, to me, is the entire vibe of what's unselled. Where he was looked at as this physical marvel. Like, he was not a scorer. He was skilled. He is one of the best passing big men of all time, hands down, baby.
- [35:18]
John Krasinski
Yep.
- [35:19]
Law Murray
Oh, yeah. Like, you cannot make a list of the best passing big men of all time without naming Wes Unselled. He averaged four or five assists a game, basically throughout his entire career. And that just didn't happen with big men back then. It just. It just did not happen. His outlet passes, John, as you said, like, he is. He is known most for his outlet passes. And I think if you ask people around the NBA, it's like, you know, Kevin Love, whose dad played with Wes on Seltzer, and Wes Unsellt are kind of like the two guys that you think of when you think of the outlet passes. So he was just the heart and soul of that entire Bullets team with the ruggedness and the toughness and the incredible low maintenance. And he will be forever associated with that organization. The Bullets obviously later became the Washington wizards in the 90s, and he was the coach. He was in the front office. His son became the head coach of the Washington Wizards later and worked in the Wizards front office as a scout and as a front office person, and then later as an assistant coach and then eventually came back to become head coach there. He is the only Finals MVP in franchise history. Washington's only title in their franchise history came in 1978. The next year, they made it back to the Finals. That's the only other. The only other time they've made to the. Made it to the Finals. They lost to the Sonics in 1979. How about this? You Want to know why Wizards fans associate Wes unselled with the good times to such a disproportionate degree? Because those were the only great times. 1979, the Bullets win 50 some odd games and they go to the finals and they lose to the Sonics. And this was after a great decade where they had hard fought playoff battles with the Knicks where they were huge rivals and, and, and they won a title in 78 like I said. And they have these great players and hall of Famers with Elvin Hayes and Bobby Dandridge and Phil Cheniere. These, these awesome 1970s player Earl Monroe is there for a part of it before he eventually goes to the rival Knicks. 1979, that is the last time that organization won 50 games. It's a 46 year 50 win drought. It's the longest in the NBA by like a long shot. And I think that whole organization associates what's on sell with like the only time that organization was really great and he was the driving force behind all of it. He was the guy on that team even though he wasn't really a scorer, but he was a defender and he did everything else. I always thought he had an awesome. Like just the way people talk about him is this sort of extremely authoritative when he speaks. He doesn't speak a ton, but when he speaks people listen. Sort of leader. Really, really awesome, really cool, obviously hall of Famer, really cool legacy and career.
- [38:11]
John Krasinski
Good stuff. Fred Law, who's your next guy?
- [38:14]
Fred Katz
I think we all know a team that would have traded west unsold after being in the locker room like that. But I digress. I want to talk about Bill Walton. I remember last time I saw Bill Walton it was All Star 2024 in Indiana. And you know, he's all tall and smiling and whatnot. Had no idea that his body was ravaged to the point where he would no longer be with us a few months later. But I'm glad I had that moment with him. Bill Walton is someone who if you just look at his numbers, especially if you just look at his games played, I don't think the appreciation would be there for was just talking about west unselled and the 70s. I think the 70s in the NBA, this most difficult time to be a great player because the league just wasn't you know, public enough or accepted enough to the point where it is now. Like it hadn't crossed over to the point where like there was a clear relationship with the consumers. And so Bill Walton though did have the benefit of playing at ucla and UCLA just destroyed College basketball while he was there. That started with Kareem and it. And it continued with Bill Walton. Like, those dudes win entire seasons without losing games, right? So I want to bring this stat up. 26 players have played at least 400 games in the NBA and averaged at least two blocks per game in their careers. And of those 26 players, Kareem Abdul Jabbar averaged the most assists per game with 3.6 in his career. And Bill Walton was second, averaging 3.4 assists per game in his career. The only other player averaging at least three was Tim Duncan. And everyone knows Kareem. Everyone knows Tim. And I think most people know Bill because of his broadcasting career and him biting candles with cupcakes and whatnot. Like, but that dude was a team player. He was an incredibly smart player. He was a versatile player because he didn't just score, he set his teammates up. And like, again, Oklahoma City Thunder, I just talked about their 2025 championship team. Everyone was talking about how young they were. Like the youngest team to win a championship in some time. Well, that some was when Bill Walton led a very young Portland Trailblazers team that wasn't even 10 years old to an NBA championship. And unlike the Thunder, who, you know, kind of ran circles around the league, at least in the regular season, I mean, that Blazers team, it was good, but, like, they were underdogs, I believe, against the 76ers when they won it, they were down in their series when they won it. And Bill had a terrible run of injuries. His, you know, it took a physical toll and a mental toll. Bill was very open about his quality of life and how much he contemplated not wanting to be on the planet anymore. But he was able to continue his career in the NBA. He was able to continue and have a life and a second career post NBA. So Bill Walton's an unforgettable figure. But hopefully this book, hopefully the chapter written by Jason Quick, will help illustrate why he is unforgettable as far as what he was able to do while he was playing.
- [41:33]
John Krasinski
Great stuff. My last one for a history lesson is Earl Monroe. And for if any kids. And man, you know, now He Got Game has been out for so long, maybe, maybe a lot of the younger people haven't seen that one yet. But if you've seen He Got Game, you know, Jesus Shuttlesworth was not named after Jesus of Nazareth, but was named after Earl Monroe. Jesus they call white media call him Black Jesus. All those things. Earl the Pearl. He actually also had the nickname Magic before Magic had the Nickname Magic. And just a very interesting career to look at because he played 13 seasons in the league, only four all star teams. So when you look at some of the other names on this list, many of the other names, you're, they're going to have more all star nods then Earl Monroe. But part of that was because of the way he came along. He played for the Baltimore Bullets, New York Knicks, won a championship with the Knicks. But he was one of those guys who was like a playground sensation as a kid, this super flashy style of play. And he actually took a year off before from basketball, from high school, before going to college at Winston Salem State, then went to Winston Salem State, a very kind of a black school in North Carolina that no one really knew about. Dominated there for four years. But by the time that he got to the NBA and started playing, his body was kind of shot already because he was always playing, you know, in Rucker park, he was playing in Philly on the blacktop and just like a sensation and this mythic figure, you know, in that realm. And then he got to the league and he had a great start. It was rookie of the year average. 24.3 points as a rookie, 25.8 as second year player, 23.4 as a third year player. But then his body started to betray him a little bit. He kind of, he had some, he had some flashes with the Knicks as well. But overall not necessarily the NBA career that I think maybe a lot of people thought he was going to have or, or would have hoped for him because of some of the health issues that he had and everything else that was going on. But just this incredible, you know, the, and one mixtape before there was an, and one mixtape type of a guy, Maravich before, you know, Maravich, and just like that kind of style of play that just drew gasps from his teammates, from people he played against, and, and just kind of really just earned him forever respect among his peers. But you know, for everything that he did on the NBA court, I really do think that when you hear the, the most fun kind of stories and whispers and, and things about him are about what he did playing in the inner cities, you know, in New York, in Philly, and what he did there and just the shows that he would put on. So Earl Monroe just, you know, an incredible figure that, that in an entirely unique game that probably would have been even better had he, had he not played so much on those black tops back in the day. So Fred, what do you got next?
- [45:04]
Law Murray
For my last one, I'm I'm gonna go with Nate Tiny Archibald. So I love Tiny Archbald. He would just put up insane numbers. So he burst onto the scene with the Cincinnati Royals, who later became the Kansas City Omaha Kings, who later became the Kansas City Kings. He's the only player ever to lead the league in scoring and assists in the same season. The only one ever. James Harden almost did it. He led the league in scoring in one season and assists in the next season. Russell Westbrook almost did it the league in scoring and then assists in consecutive seasons, too. No one has ever done it in the same season except for Nate Archibald, who averaged 34 and 11. I also love that Gossip Girl named one of its characters Nate Archibald without seemingly knowing. There was a Hall of Fame basketball player named Nate Archibald who was nothing like a Gossip Girl character. Instead, the basketball player Nate Archibald was just a 100. He was 150 at least. He's listed at 150 pounds, which makes sense because his nickname was Tiny. And there was a reason his nickname was Tiny. But he was this famously, incredibly fast point guard who would just skirt by everyone. And it's this typical underdog story. He was cut from his high school team as a sophomore. He made the team as a junior after a friend of the coach convinced him that he was wrong and he should put him on the team anyway. So this coach puts him on the team as a junior, and he does. Barely breaks the rotation. He basically only plays during blowouts. And then as a senior, he cracks the rotation. He finally comes in and he just goes all out as a senior, becomes one of the best high school players in New York. He became one of the quickest guards of his generation, which is how he made up for his tiny frame. And yet in spite of the nickname, he played with physicality.
- [46:54]
Fred Katz
He.
- [46:55]
Law Murray
He led the league in free throw, in free throws in three of his first five seasons, which is pretty wild for a guy who's 150 pounds and playing in the 1970s when I'm pretty sure you could actually use machetes. And it wasn't a foul. You just behead somebody. You could take out the guillotine. You could pin them down and you could chop their head off. And it was a foul.
- [47:17]
John Krasinski
But it was players who played back then, they will tell you that exact thing.
- [47:20]
Law Murray
Yes, it was a foul, but it wasn't a flagrant. It was really difficult to shoot the free throws, though, with your head detach from your body. And so he was part of that, like, tough New York City Point guard lineage. But injuries eventually kind of hampered him. So this is actually kind of relevant to what's going on in the NBA today where he's one of the first all time greats who had to deal with a mid career Achilles injury as opposed to even a late career achilles injury. So 1973-74, he played only 35 games because of an Achilles injury, but he recovered. And the next year and the year after that, he makes first team all NBA. So he's still a tremendous top of the league player. And then in 1977-78 he suffered the big one. That's when he tore his Achilles, which back then was something between a career changer and a career ender because we just didn't as a society have the medicine and the expertise in the medical world to be able to have people recover from that. Before the injury, in seven seasons he averaged 25 points and eight assists a game. Seven seasons of 25 and eight, which is pretty incredible. He wasn't the same level scorer after he returned, but he also had one of the most graceful recoveries from that specific injury in league history. So this is in the 1970s, this is 1978 when he comes back. And over his final six seasons, he still made three All Star teams. He made an All NBA team, he was still an eight assist guy. And he basically reinvented himself as this supercharged role player and the orchestrator of the early 1980s Celtics offenses. And he even was a starter on that first Celtics titles team. Came off the bench a little bit for them as well and became this incredible. Was already an incredible passer, but became this guy who relied on his smarts and his skills in order to still be basically a starting point guard for the entire rest of his career. Leading the league in points and assists in the same season is outrageous. It's just completely and utterly outrageous. By the way, he also averaged 46 minutes a game that year.
- [49:27]
John Krasinski
Tips coaching him.
- [49:31]
Law Murray
Yeah, exactly.
- [49:34]
John Krasinski
Good stuff. Good stuff. Fred, what do you got? I think you got two more forest laws.
- [49:38]
Fred Katz
Yeah, I'm gonna go quick, but I don't want to take too much away from these guys. So Sam Jones. So obviously the Celtics won a lot of rings, you know, like 11 of them before 1970. And Sam Jones was there for 10 of them. Which means that the only dude who won more championship rings than Sam Jones was Bill Russell. And so what does that mean for Sam Jones? Well, like everyone knows Bill Russell anchored the defense and was the linchpin of those teams, but I mean Sam Jones was a bucket. Like, he was the only player in Celtics history before 1970. And again, a lot of that first quarter century of Celtics basketball was, you know, dominated by championship teams. But Sam's the only one of those guys who ever averaged 25 a game in a season. Like, Sam Jones was the guy that was relied on for big shots, for big games, the bank shot. You know, I heard Anthony Edwards talk about how he wanted to bring that back. John, you've been in that room before, and Sam Jones was the originator from a guard position of really putting it on for the bank shot. So that was a guy that, like, if Bill Russell was the dude, like, the guy that Bill Russell probably lean on the most was probably Sam Jones. So that chapter, David Aldridge, the legend, hall of famer, D.A. he wrote that for us. And then, I mean, the biggest number that DA brought into that conversation when he was writing that chapter, that stands out to me, that dude went 25, 2 in playoff series. Sam Jones did like to have that kind of success rate to go into every season and be like, I only lost two playoff series. I got 10 rings. That's just crazy to think about, right? You'll never see it again. Mainly because there's 30 NBA teams now. But that's, you know, and then Billy Cunningham, Derek Bodner wrote this for us. And Derek Bodner talked about how like Billy Cunningham, that was a real dude coming to this team of Philadelphia 76e team that couldn't really win. And then they get him. And it just adds to the depth that the Sixers wind up having to win that first title in Philadelphia. And then Billy Cunningham was a real, like, Philadelphia 76, I mean, beyond playing, first of all, he goes to the aba, wins an mvp, comes back to the Sixers just to show he could still do it. Like, I thought that was just a badass move right there. And then he winds up winning a title in the 80s, you know, as the head coach of the franchise. So Billy Cunningham, one of the most important figures in 76ers basketball because he's one of the rare guys who had a hand in both championships that the franchise won in the city of Philadelphia. And I remember we used to do on previous spots talk about, like, who would you even compare him to? And it's like Billy Cunningham, a weird looking basketball player, like left handed jump at an era that you ain't seen a lot of dudes jump. You know, I got one of my guys, Dom Dropper, like, he would definitely be a fan of Billy Cunningham. So you can't really compare certain dudes. So not going to do that now. I'm going to let John complete the rest of this show.
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Law Murray
Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.
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John Krasinski
Foreign yeah, we'll just do a little rapid fire to close this. Thanks to everyone for listening to us kind of drone on about all this stuff, but it's, it's been super fun. Just anyone in particular either too high or too low on this list that you look at. Fred, anyone come to mind that should be up higher, should be or should be down lower in this basketball? 100 on in this section here?
- [56:14]
Law Murray
I am going to say that. I think that. I don't know. No, I'm going to say, you know, Alonzo Morning, like Pete Alonzo morning was incredibly awesome. Just an outrageous shot blocker and rim protector who would give you 20 every night, who basically, if you add Alonzo Mourning, you were going to be good to go defensively. And I do think in some ways the quality of his defense, I think when people mention Alonzo Mourning, nobody is saying, oh, that guy is overrated defender. But I do think when we talk about the great centers of that era, it was such an incredible time for centers where you had Shaq bursting into this league is just this unbelievable player. You had David Robinson still in his prime. You had Hakeem still in his prime. You had Barkley as a. At the four just wrecking dudes. You had Dikembe Mutombo as, you know, the elite shot blocker who just. You couldn't score on no matter what. And I do think Alonzo Mourning kind of gets lost in the sauce when we have that conversation about that generation of centers, in part because obviously he had the kidney problems that he had to deal with. And that obviously, you know, hurt his career in a really sad way. But he, he is truly one of the great defensive centers who would also give you 20 on the other end. And he was a joy to watch, whether he was blocking shots or dragging Jeff Van Gundy around the floor. And I just, look, I grew up in New York in the 90s, and if you, when he was on Miami Heat and if you said anything nice about Alonzo Mourning in New York in the 90s, you would end up basically looking like Jeff Van Gundy getting dragged around the floor. That was just the socially acceptable reaction. If you said anything nice about the heat in the 1990s in the middle of New York City. And, and I just always thought he was a great player and incredible player to watch, incredible athleticism. And he played the game beautifully. And I just, I always loved watching Alonzo Mourning.
- [58:37]
John Krasinski
Yeah. And before he got to Miami, part of my favorite, one of my favorite teams, just one of the funnest teams of all time. Those Hornets teams with, yeah, Larry Johnson, Mugsy Bogues, Kendall Gill, like, awesome, awesome stuff from Zo La. Who do you got any, any picks higher or lower on this list?
- [58:53]
Fred Katz
Yeah, I'm going to pair them, because I feel like the conversation just needs to be had. Like, I'll start with who is probably. Probably really high on this list and shout out to him for being as high as he is on Tracy McGrady. Like, Tracy McGrady was 60th on our list. And, like, that's great for Tracy. And he was an absolutely devastating scorer guy who dropped 32 a game one year, followed that up with another year where he led the league in scoring. But you ain't never seen the Tracy McGrady highlight after May 1st. So, like, that's the thing. That's the thing.
- [59:34]
Law Murray
Oh, my goodness.
- [59:36]
John Krasinski
Shots.
- [59:36]
Law Murray
Like, wow, I love.
- [59:38]
Fred Katz
I'm just. I'm just saying, like, T. Mac never won a playoff series, you know, as that guy. And, you know, he only has been a part of, you know, one team that won a playoff series at all in his career. And he didn't. He didn't play. It was that San Antonio spurs team that lost in seven to the Miami Heat in. In 2013. I remember TMac being on the bench, and it's like, man, you going to win this title? Like, but he didn't, you know, didn't happen for him. So it's like, you know, T. Mac played in eight playoff series before that 2013 year, and he wasn't successful in any of them. And he was a great player. But, like, if you're going to look at impact and if you're going to look at, like, what a guy did with his teams, like, TMAC couldn't even steal one series. You know, he almost did. He was up 3:1 as an AC, but then, you know, they blew a 3:1 lead and with the Orlando Magic. So I just wanted to bring that up to set up Alex English. No one talks about Alex English like, a dude who led the entire 1980s in scoring. He was the only dude who dropped 20,000 points in the 1980s. Like, no one else even scored 19,000 points in between the 1980 and 1990 seasons. And I mean, John, again, you brought him up. It's like he led the league in scoring, too. Like, he was a guy who. I don't think those Nuggets teams were great in the playoffs, but they got to a conference finals in the 80s. They. They won a few playoff series. And if you look at Alex English's numbers, you look at TMAC numbers, I'm just saying, like, TMAC was 60 on our list, and Alex English was 79th. And I think, you know, you could have. You could have flipped that and you wouldn't have got an argument out of me.
- [61:25]
John Krasinski
Excellent stuff, la. That's a good, good, good. Take my last one. My one. I'll just end quickly with. I, I look at POW guess old at 78 and it's probably right, but his game was never, was never going to be one like Carmelo, you know, even like c web or McGrady or a lot of these guys that it's just going to leap off the screen at you. But when you look at what he did for those Lakers teams and how important he was just as an overall basketball player on both ends, I just wonder if like he's like an ultra Robin type of a player that maybe is a little bit underappreciated at 78. I wouldn't have him at 40, but I, I could nudge him up a little bit just given that he was so integral to really kind of jump starting the, you know, that, that Kobe Lakers team, getting them back into championship, into the championship podium and all that stuff. But also just I think that he is underappreciated for his skill as a passer, for his versatility as a defender, for just everything that he did all around for that team and just holding that team together as the glue. So Powell could be a little, a little bit higher if you asked me.
- [62:49]
Law Murray
So I don't know if there's, I don't know if there's a teammate who Kobe Bryant publicly praised more in his career than Pal.
- [62:56]
John Krasinski
Yeah, yeah. And Kobe hated everyone. So like that's, I mean that in and of itself should be, should be reason to bump him up just a little bit more. More.
- [63:04]
Law Murray
So he was obsessed with pow. Yeah, he loved pow.
- [63:10]
John Krasinski
No doubt about it. No doubt about it. Well, fellas, we've got almost an hour here. Really appreciate this has been an awesome conversation. Law Murray in la, Fred Katz in New York. Thanks for joining me on the latest edition of the Basketball 100 podcast. And thanks folks for listening. And we will be back with another episode soon.
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Law Murray
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Law Murray
SeeCapital1.com for details.
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Fred Katz
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Fred Katz
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Law Murray
King of the Hill is back.
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Fred Katz
They got a Bob's in the airport now. Oh, that's Boba.
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Law Murray
World has changed, dad.
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Fred Katz
Bobby wants to bring that new girl over for dinner.
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John Krasinski
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What the hell am I supposed to feed her?
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Fred Katz
Can't we just put some grass in a bowl?
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Law Murray
From Mike Judge and Greg Daniels.
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Fred Katz
Ready to make some memories, dad? Let's freaking go.
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Law Murray
A Hulu original series, King of the Hill. All episodes now streaming on Hulu.