Jaylen Brown Trade Incoming? Offseason Pressure Meter | Morning Shoot Around

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: "Jaylen Brown Trade Incoming? Offseason Pressure Meter | Morning Shoot Around"

Date: May 13, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esmeral Henny

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily dives deep into the current playoff landscape and, more importantly, assesses the “offseason pressure meter” for NBA teams recently eliminated from the playoffs. The hosts establish tiers of offseason stress—ranging from “low cortisol” (easy decisions) to “cortisol spiking” (frantic, make-or-break summers)—and break down where each team stands, why, and what high-stakes decisions lie ahead for big names and franchises. The hot topic of a possible Jaylen Brown trade for the Boston Celtics is also explored, along with extensive speculation about what pivotal moves various GMs may attempt.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Spurs-Wolves Game & Playoffs Framing (03:00–09:36)

• Spurs Dominance: The hosts open by recapping a blowout Spurs win over the Timberwolves (126–97), noting San Antonio’s defensive mastery and significant performances by Kelton Johnson and rookie Dylan Harper.
  • "It was demonstrative how they won... The Spurs have solved the Wolves at this point, especially when Wemby's on the court." (Esmeral Henny, 03:29)
• Wembanyama’s Impact: There’s discussion about how Western Conference playoff series, like Spurs-Thunder, feel like the “real NBA Finals” due to the star power and team quality.
• Rookie Watch: Dylan Harper’s rise prompts excitement about how impactful second-year players can be.
• Looking Ahead: The group is hyped for the upcoming Spurs-Thunder series, tentatively calling it “the real NBA Finals.”

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2. Offseason Pressure Meter Introduction & Tiers (09:37–11:05)

• Tier Definitions:
  • Cortisol Spiking: Utter panic mode—huge, unavoidable decisions.
  • Feel the Heat: Noticeable tension, significant moves imminent.
  • Sniff the Tension: Slightly awkward, but manageable—think uncomfortable family dinner.
  • Low Cortisol: Minor tweaks only, generally calm.
• The focus is on eliminated playoff teams, not lottery-bound squads.

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3. Team-by-Team Offseason Stress Breakdown

Phoenix Suns (11:05–15:45)

• Tier: Low Cortisol (with arguments for “sniff the tension”)
• Reasoning: Season exceeded expectations after a rebuild, but the roster lacks a quality big. Jalen Green and Devin Booker’s futures are solid for now, and team injuries hampered their ceiling.
• Quote: "It was a found money season... They need a big man. Until they figure that out, they’re going to struggle." (Esmeral Henny, 11:32)
• Notable Moment: Playful debate about Booker’s eventual fate with Phoenix.

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Portland Trail Blazers (15:45–20:25)

• Tier: Feel the Heat
• Reasoning: Damian Lillard’s return from injury complicates guard development, and ownership is cheap. Assistant GM departure and roster logjams signal instability. Decisions loom on multiple extensions and possible fire sales.
• Quote: "There are going to be some changes... I say feel the heat." (Dave Dufour, 18:01)

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Atlanta Hawks (20:46–23:42)

• Tier: Low Cortisol
• Reasoning: Young core is improving post-Trae Young. Newly acquired CJ McCollum stabilizes the backcourt; they also have the 8th pick and solid cap space.
• Quote: "They’ve got a couple seasons... Quinn Snyder is a good coach. Super low cortisol." (Esmeral Henny, 22:22)

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Orlando Magic (23:51–29:35)

• Tier: Cortisol Spiking
• Reasoning: No control of their first-rounders until 2031, and a bloated payroll for a play-in caliber team. The fit between Banchero and Wagner is questioned, and injuries have derailed continuity. A trade seems likely.
• Quote: "This is a crucial offseason for them—the crux of their problems lies in Franz and Paolo being so similar. They’re easier to guard." (Esmeral Henny, 26:57)

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Toronto Raptors (30:14–38:44)

• Tier: Feel the Heat
• Reasoning: Good season and a strong locker room, but contracts for Pöltl and Ingram are difficult to move. Questions around extensions (e.g., RJ Barrett, Mamu) and who they could target in a trade.
• Quote: "They have ways to make trades... but who do they trade for?" (Dave Dufour, 35:47)
• Memorable Moment: “Jakob Pöltl’s contract is the new Timofey Mozgov.” (Esmeral Henny, 41:34)

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Boston Celtics (39:00–45:08)

• Tier: Cortisol Spiking
• Reasoning: Heavy salary concentration in Tatum, Brown, and White, with shaky playoff reliability and coaching questions. Jalen Brown’s fit is in question, and the Derrick White contract looks bad.
• Quote: "Is it time to break up the Jays?... To give up a player like Jaylen Brown, you better get a haul." (Esmeral Henny, 41:43)
• Notable Moment: Jaylen Brown’s Twitch comments sparked more speculation on his trade future.

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Philadelphia 76ers (46:11–50:29)

• Tier: Feel the Heat
• Reasoning: Huge money sunk into Embiid, Paul George, Maxey; little flexibility. Need to extend/re-sign multiple secondary pieces. The “three-star model” is outdated—they need more depth.
• Quote: "The Sixers have six guys—five and a half, honestly. Their biggest thing is going to be building out depth." (Esmeral Henny, 48:16)

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Los Angeles Lakers (50:33–56:44)

• Tier: Sniff the Tension (with arguments for “Feel the Heat”)
• Reasoning: Roster turnover ahead: LeBron’s future, Austin Reaves' extension, Rui Hachimura's free agency, and center depth. But Luka Doncic is a legitimate centerpiece and buys some time.
• Quote: "You can’t slow roll this... That’s a lot of work to do in a small amount of time for a team that wants to win a championship." (Shay Gilgeous-Alexander, 56:02)
• Fun Moment: Joking about “Lakers exceptionalism”—the franchise always finds a way.

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Houston Rockets (56:45–60:22)

• Tier: Cortisol Spiking
• Reasoning: Durant and Sengun both expensive—neither delivers reliable results. VanVleet and Steven Adams’ health issues limited them. Locker room concerns with Durant. Ime Udoka’s future as head coach is unclear. Big moves likely, possibly even a blow up.
• Quote: "They’ve got to figure out—can this locker room exist with Kevin Durant?... Eme survived this season with KD because a lot of coaches don’t." (Esmeral Henny, 58:51)
• Memorable Moment: Multiple hosts (and listeners) questioning whether Udoka had already been fired.

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Denver Nuggets (60:22–63:29)

• Tier: Cortisol Spiking
• Reasoning: Luxury tax squeeze, poor contracts (Christian Braun), and uncertainty around Jamal Murray/Cam Johnson. Tim Hardaway Jr. is a UFA. Pressure to make creative moves or consider a major trade.
• Quote: "Everyone is on the table for trade except Jokic." (Esmeral Henny, 61:35)

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Minnesota Timberwolves (63:36–68:46)

• Tier: Sniff the Tension / Low Cortisol
• Reasoning: Edwards, Gobert, and core are locked in. No panic needed; most issues are marginal. Main question—do you move a contract like DiVincenzo for upgrades? Team culture and cohesion are praised, and a “Giannis trade” is pondered, but not deemed mandatory.
• Quote: "Anthony Edwards—you can close your eyes and picture Adam Silver handing him the Larry O’Brien." (Esmeral Henny, 67:45)
• Notable Trade Proposal: "Nas Reid and Dante DiVincenzo for Jalen Suggs straight up." (Dave Dufour, 67:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Spurs, Thunder is the real NBA Finals. But it kind of is, man." (Dave DuFour, 05:00)
• "There's no perfect team and there's no perfect player. I'm not ready to just say Wemby owns the NBA." (Esmeral Henny, 70:26)
• "Want him to win... don't you want to reward those players that stay in the franchise? That's what I mean by, we want them to win." (Shay Gilgeous-Alexander on Devin Booker, 14:52)
• "Jakob's the new Timofey Mozgov as far as I'm concerned." (Esmeral Henny, 41:34)
• "Is it time to break up the Jays?" (Esmeral Henny, 41:43)
• "They need nine or ten guys. The Sixers have six—five and a half, honestly." (Esmeral Henny, 48:16)
• "You can't slow roll this. You have to do it quickly." (Dave DuFour, 55:56)
• "They've got to figure out... Can this locker room exist with Kevin Durant?" (Esmeral Henny, 58:51)
• "Everyone is on the table for trade except Jokic." (Esmeral Henny, 61:35)
• "Anthony Edwards... You can close your eyes and picture Adam Silver handing him the Larry O’Brien." (Esmeral Henny, 67:45)

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Time-Stamped Highlights

• 03:29: Spurs' statement win over Wolves; Wemby’s dominance discussed.
• 09:37: Introduction of “offseason stress tier” system.
• 11:32–15:45: Suns’ future, big man debate, and Booker conjecture.
• 18:01: Blazers’ off-court turbulence and “Feel the Heat” verdict.
• 26:57: Orlando’s roster and trade crisis clarified.
• 30:14: Raptors’ contract dilemma and what’s next for Ingram and Mamu.
• 41:34: “Timofey Mozgov” comp for Jakob Pöltl.
• 46:11: Sixers’ model reboot, cap trouble, and depth problem.
• 56:02: Lakers’ crossroads summarized.
• 58:51: Rockets’ Kevin Durant headache and coaching uncertainty.
• 61:35: Nuggets’ trade table now open, except for Jokic.
• 67:04: Wolves trade proposal: Nas Reid & DiVincenzo for Jalen Suggs.
• 67:45: Anthony Edwards’ star power and Wolves’ bright outlook.

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Final Stress Level Tiers Recap (71:20)

• Cortisol Spiking: Magic, Celtics, Rockets, Nuggets
• Feel the Heat: Blazers, Raptors, 76ers
• Sniff the Tension: Lakers, Wolves
• Low Cortisol: Suns, Hawks

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Takeaways

• The landscape for NBA GMs is more dynamic than ever, with several teams entering true “make-or-break” summers.
• The Orlando Magic, Celtics, Rockets, and Nuggets in particular face turbulent offseasons and possible franchise-altering moves.
• Jaylen Brown’s future as a Celtic is hanging in the balance.
• Even assertive, successful teams like the Wolves are now adjusting to a world dominated by the upstart Spurs and Thunder—foreshadowing a new era in the Western Conference.
• Fun what-if trades (e.g., Giannis destinations, Suggs-to-Wolves) sprinkled in with analytical rigor.

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This episode was packed with roster strategy, honest assessments, and plenty of spicy debate—must-listen for NBA fans tracking the next wave of superstars, blockbuster trades, and front-office chess moves.

Transcript

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[Esmeral Henny]

All right. Hey, guys. Welcome to the morning shoot around. I'm Dave Dufour. That's Esmeral Henny, and you can't hear Xena, which I know is probably driving her crazy.

[Dave Dufour]

Great start, fellas.

[Esmeral Henny]

Let's go.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Welcome.

[Esmeral Henny]

Welcome to the shoot. Around this the time where we, you know, take a little bit more casual look at what we've been doing all week. And we're gonna do some technical. There we go. Okay, we got some technical difficulties, but we're gonna get those fixed.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, we'll.

[Dave Dufour]

We'll survive. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. When Xena comes back, we're. We're gonna do a little fun, a fun little game looking at which teams that have been eliminated are the most stressed about their elimination. Xena, are we back in business?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

And are they as stressed as I am? My God.

[Esmeral Henny]

There we go.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay, we're here. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Morning Daily. I. I'm like, the Morning Daily. I'm all over the place right now. But, guys, where did you leave off while I was trying to figure out my mic?

[Esmeral Henny]

Nowhere. We didn't even get started. Yeah, we just got in. There we go.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Well, hello, everyone. I'm happy that you can hear my voice. Now, for those of you listening on the pod, you're gonna be like, where. What is happening over at the NBA Daily? But no, it's morning shoot around, y'.

[Esmeral Henny]

All.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

We got some random things to talk about, including how stressed people should be in this offseason to make the right decisions to ensure a productive year coming up ahead. Now, before we get into that, there was a crazy game last night. Timberwolves and the spurs played. The spurs blow out the Wolves 126, 97. It. It was demonstrative how they won. And Dave, they're calling this the Wemby revenge game, but he was the one. He was the one with the bows. So I'm trying to figure out how we're categorizing this sort of win for the Spurs.

[Esmeral Henny]

Well, I mean, it was absolutely a blowout. Obviously, I think the spurs have solved the Wolves at this point, especially when Wimby's on the court. They've stopped attacking. Wimby completely went away from everything that was working for them, like in game one, especially. I thought that they did such a good job. And I don't know. The spurs are just getting. They're getting some real timely performances. Kelton Johnson finally has a big game for them. Yep. Dylan Harper has been their second best player in the series so far. And that's a fun thing to kind of, like, extrapolate on. If you have a rookie who's the second best player in a playoff series, what's that guy gonna look like next year?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right, right, right.

[Esmeral Henny]

And so I think that when we're looking at the spurs right now, like, I'm already thinking about Spurs, Thunder.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Because I think. And I think s probably agrees with me, this series is done. And I think the spurs have been the better team. And, you know, I think at this point, they just got to get through game six healthy. Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Dufour]

I agree that it's done. It feels like just the level of preparedness that the spurs had going into game five. And like you mentioned, they. They have not been able to solve the Wemby equation. It will be fascinating to see how the Thunder try and solve the Wemby equation. And it just, you know, I. I Understand from like an Eastern Conference perspective, when people are, people get annoyed that you'd say like, oh, Spurs, Thunder is the real NBA Finals. Spurs, Thunder is the real NBA Finals. But it kind of is, man.

[Esmeral Henny]

They're the two best team.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

It is. But it's been like that in the west for a while. Right?

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

When you think about the warriors and the Rockets, like, there's always like these matchups that were huge before the actual finals. And it's funny, Dave, as you mentioned, what does a Dylan Harper look like in his second year that's already putting in these performances? I'm like, well, A.J. mitchell was barely touching, you know, the floor in the playoffs last year and now he's putting up these crazy numbers. And yes, Keldon Johnson, 21 points, 8 of 11 off the bench. Like that's exactly what you need on top of the defense that he consistently provides. Yeah, it's a, it's a massive jump for the spurs to finally feel like they're getting the comfort. And we saw the New York Knicks do that against, you know, Philadelphia. I feel like this is what the spurs needed some, a demonstrative win to be able to close out. Hope they, I mean, that's their goal on Friday is going to be the next game. Game six.

[Dave Dufour]

I, I actually I, I saw an interesting question online that I want to throw out at you guys before we get started on this pressure meter thing. If you are an Eastern Conference team that gets to the NBA Finals, who would you rather play, the spurs or the Thunder?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I'd rather play the Spurs.

[Esmeral Henny]

Really?

[Dave Dufour]

I think I would rather play the spurs as well. But J. Dubs injury does make this interesting because you don't know if he's going to come back, when he's going to come back, how healthy he looks when he comes back. But I, I think I would lean Spurs. Do you feel differently?

[Esmeral Henny]

You know what, I'm not sure because if you're saying Spurs, I think you're, you're leaning on the. They haven't been there before.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yep.

[Esmeral Henny]

And you're hoping that the lights are too bright. The Thunder, they don't have a Wemby. Right, Shay, like we, we just saw. I thought the Lakers did a really good job of guarding Shea, making other guys have to step up and do stuff for the Thunder. So there is like, we've seen them lose. I mean, we saw the Pacers took him to seven games last year in the finals. The Nuggets took him to seven games. The spurs, it's just youth. Right. Like we haven't seen them really have to struggle at this point. And so I, I think I feel

[Dave Dufour]

like they've struggled a little bit again.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

They have. I feel like there's been some pores. I think they, we've seen some pores in their, their offensive.

[Esmeral Henny]

I mean they haven't had a seven game series yet. Like, I don't think that they've necessarily been pushed by Portland.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Or. Or Minnesota yet. They've lost a few games here and there. You can, you can write off like what two of those losses, the one where Wemby knocks himself out and the one where Wimby gets ejected. Right. Like you can white. You can, you can write those. And so I, but that being said, I, I think that yeah, you bank on the spurs kind of youth and inexperience being an issue, but the Thunder, like you, without Jalen Williams, that is a, that is a, a less dangerous team. And I, I think like a team like the Knicks and their ability to

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

score, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna disagree. Not because of my, my analysis is not just looking at the spurs and seeing that there might be some holes in their offense that I've seen also that they, you know, they are so heavily, I think, dependent on Wemby needing to be out there. I'm more so looking at what OKC has. And that comment that you just put up there is one point of, yes, they have the best basketball player in Shay to some folks. Some folks might think it's someone else, but they have sga. To me, it's the fact that they have two bigs that work so well together, and that is Chad Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein. You can't replicate what they do, whether it's on the defensive end, the high low game that they have. Shet, I think has been phenomenal in these playoffs. Like I. That's actually more so on top of what SGA offers. That to me is a problem for any team in the Eastern Conference is that connectivity from the bigs. I just, you guys are, you know, I'm big on big.

[Esmeral Henny]

Here's my thing though.

[Dave Dufour]

You guys are just getting me excited for Spurs, Thunder because there's just. There is so much. There are so many similarities between these two teams. Both of those teams can go double big with Luke Cornett and Wemby and Hartenstein and Chad. They have the guard defense, they have the driving guard that can basically create everything. It's just, it's so similar. It's like they're looking at mirrors of Each other, but with two very different stars in Wemby and sga. And it's just.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

God, I can't wait for that series. Yeah, that'll be fun. It'll be fun. Okay, well, let's keep it going because those, those teams are still in contention. They don't have to worry about some of these things that other teams are thinking about right now. And that's why we're going to talk a little bit about our tier system today.

[Dave Dufour]

Yes.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

We're looking at what GMs, coaches, front offices are thinking about, what they need to do. There are certain levels of stress that they will have to potentially endure over the course of the summer. The top tier is cortisol spiking. Okay. No cold showers will save you from this one, baby. You have some serious, serious decision making to do next here. Right up under that is feel the heat. All right. Things are a little burning up. Okay. It's just going to be a little uncomfortable. Sweat marks might show up under the pits. Under that sniff the tension. You know, it might be a little bit awkward, like a, you know, uncomfortable Thanksgiving dinner. Not too bad. But, you know, just a little bit like, all right, there's a little bit of tension here. And then some folks are just literally cruising down the highway. Top back, low cortisol. They got some decisions to make, but it ain't too bad. It's not too much that they have to stress about. So we're going to talk about the teams that were eliminated from the playoffs. There's obviously lottery teams and such that they've got a lot of decisions to make, whatever. But these are the teams that just got eliminated. We're going to go with the first round eliminators first. So I'm going to actually take Phoenix. Where does Phoenix land? Obviously we know what they did last summer. They get Durant from Houston. Seven team dealers.

[Dave Dufour]

They, they, they traded Durant.

[Esmeral Henny]

They traded.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Excuse me. Yes, they traded Durant to Houston in a 17 deal. They extended Booker, so that's good. It feels as if they are. They're trying to retool, right? They obviously, they have Dylan Brooks. They've got Jalen Green. They found out a defensive identity. Jordan Knott's doing some really good things out there. What do we think about. Think sons?

[Esmeral Henny]

I mean, this was a, a found money season in a lot of ways for them. Like, none of us really expected them to be this competitive and, and maybe even not make the playoffs. I think they need a big man. They just don't grow on trees. And until they figure that out, they're going to struggle, you know, to, to get into that top six. They need a. A solid defensive big man. Somebody who could space the floor would be great. Like, maybe if they could get their hands on Miles Turner or someone like that, that would actually boost them quite a bit. I just don't know if he may not be worth the investment at this point in his career, but I don't think that they're. They should feel too much stress. Like, I put them in the low cortisol for sure.

[Dave Dufour]

Can I make the pitch to sniff the tension?

[Esmeral Henny]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Because at some point, like, it is found money. I agree with you. And they really, it was like, bucking expectations this season, but, like, will eventually get to the point where it's not cute anymore and expectations will be set for them to finally take some sort of leap. And they, I don't think they have that many resources to be able to do that between the, the picks outgoing, between, like, you know, I guess you can trade Jalen Green's contract, but, like, how. How far down the road are we before we get into serious conversation about Devin Booker's future in Phoenix? That's why I'm not saying we're there yet, but there is a, like, feel. Sniff the tension element to this where it's like, probably in a couple years, maybe even a year from now, if Phoenix does disappoint, you know, the west gets better, whatever. Maybe we're looking at this, like, all right, how many times are going to. Are they going to do the same thing over and over again? The. The kind of definition of insanity thing, if you will. Look, I don't know. How do you guys feel?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I'm with. I'm. So. I like where you're going with this as far as, like, what Phoenix needs, Dave, and they need a big. Honestly, I'm kind of banking on Osu Ghidaro having Nehemiah's KEDA growth or a leap. Right. And only because I, I saw Nehemiah says Kada's like, leap from the G League into Boston and being in the right system. And I feel like now that Phoenix has kind of sniffed the right system and they, they feel like, you know, I think things got put together for them towards the end of the season. I feel like maybe they're. They're. Now they've got the right pieces. They need a little bit more time. Remember, Phoenix suffered a lot of injuries. There's a lot of inconsistencies in their roster this year. So being able to finally get Together, get some more time together. Get a little bit more reps together. I think they might be. They might still have some found money that they can spend. I don't know if that they. They've spent. I'm still going low quarters off for them.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, I think it's one.

[Dave Dufour]

It's okay. That's all good.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I understand.

[Dave Dufour]

Listen, I'm just trying to make a Devin Booker trade happen. That's my thing.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I'm sure we do want him to win. It's true. Like, we. He came so close to the Bucks.

[Dave Dufour]

Dave is like, no, stay.

[Esmeral Henny]

Want him to win. That's so funny. I. I just, you know, here's my thing. It. It. I don't want Devin Booker to leave the Suns.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I hear you. I. I think it would be cool.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Well, that's the thing. Yeah. That. Don't you want to reward those players that stay in the franchise? That's what I mean by. We want them to win, but they need a.

[Esmeral Henny]

They need to get a big. I don't think. I don't think Mark Williams ain't doing it.

[Dave Dufour]

I think. I think what they need to do, they need to flip Jalen Green for another big. And then they need to extend Dylan Brooks to a healthy contract and hope that, that, that is enough for them to. To get.

[Esmeral Henny]

I don't know, man. I think Jalen Green is. I think he's a Phoenix son. I. I think that he and Booker, that's their backcourt next year.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

All right.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay. We'll see what happens. I actually do like Jay. I thought he had a pretty decent year once he got health

[Esmeral Henny]

defense.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

And he can score. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

He can put the. He can put the ball in the basket.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I don't know if we. We actually got a true sample size of what Phoenix could do. So we'll see what happens next year.

[Dave Dufour]

Fair enough.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Alrighty. Let's move on to Portland. Okay. Portland, they get Dillian. Damian Lillard is supposed to return from his Achilles injury next season.

[Esmeral Henny]

You know, I keep forgetting about this, by the way.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yes. Because.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

At his. At his age, coming back from an Achilles tear. I don't know. You know, it's kind of like I've written it off. And that being said, I mean, maybe he comes back and he's great, but I just don't. I don't know how he comes to this team. I mean, where's it. Where's he get the. Like, who are you taking minutes from to give to Damian Lillard? And does your team wind up and I Right. But does your team wind up better long term by giving these minutes to Damian Lillard? Look, I understand it's Damian Lillard and he's back in Portland, but you're going to take away development minutes essentially from like Scoot Henderson, unless you're going to trade him. Well, that's what give to. To Damian Lillard.

[Dave Dufour]

So I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and say, and this might be a little too brash, but I think feel the heat. And the reason I say that is because they have this ownership situation that's lingering over their head. And I, I'm not, I'm not saying it's going to be anything drastic, but things can unravel pretty quickly.

[Esmeral Henny]

They lost their assistant gm.

[Dave Dufour]

They lost their assistant gm. They, they're, they're definitely going to look for a inexpensive coach to hire. How does that impact them developmentally? There, there's so many trickle down effects of like having truthfully a cheap owner. And so I, I'm, I'm curious to see how that impacts the roster building. Also. What happens with Scoot Henderson's extension? They just extended Shade and Sharp, but he hasn't panned out in any sort of way. Do they try to trade him? They have Jeremy Grant's massive contract. They have Jrue Holiday's contract. They have to extend Denny Abdia in a couple of years. They have to extend Donovan Klingon soon. Like there's money stuff that ends up being a question. And when you have the lingering owner stuff where it feels like he doesn't. Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but it doesn't seem like he's willing to pay the tax.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And this team is not ready to be in tax territory anyways.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

There are going to be some changes with the Portland Trailblazers. So I say feel the heat.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

That's the thing. I think I might be, I might be up there with you. Maybe one level down, a sniff. No, no, I think I'm feel the heat. Like there's also the factor of one thing about the Portland Trailblazers. They got a lot of point guards and some wings that, and, you know, some good wings, but wings that are one dimensional. Right. And forwards that are like kind of one dimensional. You're gonna get a lot of offense out of Jeremy Grant. You can get a lot of defense out of Tomani Kamara. They need a little bit more diversity on that end. Matisse Cybel is a free agent next year. Rob Williams is a free agent next year. These are Big backups for them folks that kind of shore up the perimeter for them in terms of like the kind of the. Their second unit. And so that to me you can have a great starting lineup. And their owner said that they're focusing on winning over development. Dave. So Scoot Henderson be damned. Under Tom.

[Esmeral Henny]

I mean, good luck. Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Like, right.

[Esmeral Henny]

Congratulations on buying an NBA team. Certainly the rules are going to be different for you than for everybody else. Right? Like hey, yes, we're not going to develop anything. Our team, which is all. It's not good now. Right. Like you're not good the day you bought the team. We're not going to develop. Their free agency doesn't exist. You've got guys that you can trade, I guess. But what are you getting for those guys? If you're trading Drew Holiday, you're not getting. This is not a like for like, it's not like you're going to get sent a 28 year old guy who's going to start for you. So I don't know. Welcome to the NBA. What's his name? Dundon.

[Dave Dufour]

Dundon. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

I guarantee we'll have some names for that guy by the end of this year.

[Dave Dufour]

Dun, Dun, dun.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I was gonna say that literally came to my mind. They also have six tradable first rounders

[Dave Dufour]

starting in 20 and Milwaukees too. Right? Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right. So you know, they got some stuff to do or you know, things they can do.

[Esmeral Henny]

I bet they trade a bunch of them if the owner's as cheap as people are saying.

[Dave Dufour]

Are we, Are we saying sniff detention or Feel the heat?

[Esmeral Henny]

I feel the heat.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Feel the heat. I. Yeah, I'm with you.

[Dave Dufour]

Okay.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

All right.

[Esmeral Henny]

They've got, they are on the clock in a way that other teams aren't.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Dufour]

I agree.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

And it's funny because it's opposite ends.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right. Donovan Klingon and Scoot Henderson. We still have not seen Young Hansen pan out for them just yet. And then the complete opposite end of, you know, 11 year bet Jeremy Grant and Damian Lillard and Drew Holiday, etc. So yeah, this is gonna be interesting. All right, let's keep it moving to the Atlanta Hawks.

[Dave Dufour]

Alrighty.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

So they get rid of Trae Young, put all the focus on Jalen Johnson, bring in Jonathan Kaminga. They make a run for it in the first round for like the first few games. And then New York remembered who they were. But you saw a lot of good things coming out of it, mainly with the addition of CJ McCollum coming in from Washington and a part of that Trade with Trey Young. And there seems to be something really good here that's happening. And I think there we. We need a little bit more time to see it come to fruition. So where do we think Atlanta is sitting in terms of their tension over the summer? I think they're at low cortisol.

[Esmeral Henny]

Eastern Conference.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. They also have the eighth pick, right?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh, that's right.

[Dave Dufour]

That is. That is big. Low cart is cortisol, in my opinion, because you can add another guy I know Killian Gomez mentions this as well, but like a day. Mara, that feels like a very, very nice pick for them. Huge, seven foot three, big man that could be like this big towering presence in the middle for them. Getting that size for their defense would be awesome. I agree with you guys. I would put low cortisol just because, you know, stakes are low for them. They're still relative.

[Esmeral Henny]

Any team that's like, oh, you know what our big priority, bringing back CJ McCollum this summer.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

And drafting well at number eight, like.

[Esmeral Henny]

Cool.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, Sounds good. You know, they've got.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I think that they've got the next Walker. Oh, sorry.

[Esmeral Henny]

They've got the next couple seasons. Right. I. I think. And like, Quinn Snyder is a good coach. I think what we saw out of him this season and in the playoffs is. Is a pretty good indicator that. That he's going to be around for a while. Yeah, it's super low cortisol. Like the Hawks again, they were such a great surprise. We were comparing them to the Pacers. Yeah, great.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right?

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right. They're also 36 million below the luxury tax, which is great. And they got to bring CJ McCullum back. So you'd have Jalen Johnson, Nikhil Alexander, Walker, Onyaka and Kongu Jonathan coming in for. In one more year and then. Yeah, that's.

[Esmeral Henny]

Well, unless they extend them, which. That's the.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Unless they extend them. That's a big one.

[Esmeral Henny]

That's their biggest decision this summer is McCollum option. Yeah, well, with McCollum though, it's a low risk. With, with Kaminga, you're committing. You're going to commit years on an extension. That's the biggest. The biggest decision they have to make is. Is this guy who is talented, but maybe like we don't quite.

[Dave Dufour]

Or you could just opt in, like take the one year and have it be this rental. Now it's an expiring salary on your books for the next year that you can maybe dangle at the trade deadline. It's $20 million.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, there's some flexibility there for Atlanta, for sure. I would say low cortisol, though, for sure.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's keep it moving then. This makes. All right, next team up, what should we go? Let's go Orlando. Because there's.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, let's go Orlando.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Let's go Orlando. Okay. They're an expensive team. They have the number.

[Dave Dufour]

Gonna go ahead and throw them.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. Okay. Okay, okay.

[Esmeral Henny]

Okay.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I was just gonna say. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

They don't think we all agree here.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

They don't control their first rounders until 2031. They don't have much to move with this offseason. Like, that's insane. The injury issue is a problem. Franz Wagner played 34 regular season games. That combination of Wagner, Banchero, Bane, Suggs and Wendell Carr Jr. They were really good, but they barely got to play together this season.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Obviously, Anthony Black needs to potentially be extended. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Find a new head coach.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh, a new head coach. That part Two. Yeah. Thank you so much for reminding me that.

[Dave Dufour]

Which might help them, like, maybe this is. Now feel the heat.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

If you.

[Dave Dufour]

If they find the right head coach that can steal the ship.

[Esmeral Henny]

I think the front office, though, right? Like, they're gonna be. Xena. You said it. They're gonna be expensive. They're gonna have what they are.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

They are expensive.

[Esmeral Henny]

Fourth highest payroll.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

They are expensive for a team that's a play in team.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

That's very disappointing. I mean, look, the way we were talking about them heading into this year was like, hey, this is a team that could win the East.

[Esmeral Henny]

You know, I never talked about him like this.

[Dave Dufour]

So, like, I'm just saying, like, consensus. Consensus moments.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

We were at the NBA cup talking about. Dang.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I just. I think. I think this trade, the Desmond Bain trade, was a big, big bet on Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. And those guys, in my opinion, haven't taken the leap that many people expected them to. Like, people thought Paolo Bankero would be a top 10 player in the league. People thought Franz Wagner would be an all Star. And I think, yes, injuries have limited their ability to become those players. But that was the bet this season, and that didn't pan out. You could say, hey, let's be patient. Let's give it another year. This year was about figuring out who we are. We need a new head coach. Maybe that'll get us over the hump. At the same time, you're running out of options in terms of flexibility. So I wonder if they do entertain the idea of breaking up Franz And Paolo. And at the same time do they entertain the idea of trading Suggs because they need to resign Anthony Black? So it, there's so many questions for this group, you know, so cortisol spiking. I. Every time I think about them, my own cortisol is spiking.

[Esmeral Henny]

So I feel like they're going to make a trade this summer.

[Dave Dufour]

They kind of have to.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

They kind of have to some blockbuster one. There's also some folks on their roster that I'm like, like Jonathan Isaac is getting paid 14 and a half million

[Esmeral Henny]

next year, but nobody wants.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

That's what I'm saying. Like there's. And they're also like they've got some puzzle pieces that are going to be stuck. Whereas you know, obviously still have Tristan De Silva getting paid under 4 million. He was way more valuable to them. They've got some. Got some interesting decisions. So we're putting them where spiking. Okay, cool. I just want to make sure.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. This is a crucial off season for them. You know. The, the crux of their problems lie in Franz and Paolo being such similar players. They're easier to guard. Right. Like you could put a. Same size, you know, same size people guarding them. You switch any action that you have your two best players run and you're stuck. You're running into brick walls.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Agreed.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I agree.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

It's a good point.

[Esmeral Henny]

Who's gonna trade for Franz? That's, that's the question. I, because I, I just don't think they'll trade Paolo given what he has done in the playoffs. Right. Like we just, we see this guy play in the playoffs now a few times. He's clearly one of these playoff riser guys who shows up. And so I think if you're Orlando, I, I mean it would give me pause. I, I would be really. It would be hard for me to choose between Franz and Paolo after the playoff.

[Dave Dufour]

It would be, it would be a, a buy low situation if you're another team for Franz Wagner, you know.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh yeah, well let me, let me.

[Dave Dufour]

And whatnot.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Let me throw this out there in terms of maybe this helps Franz Wagner. 224 million guaranteed. Paolo. 201 million guaranteed.

[Esmeral Henny]

I don't think that anybody cares about the difference in that. I think it's going to be. Well, there's a good point in the chat here that the return from Paolo would probably be higher than the return from Franz. Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. But you're, you're now shifting into a, into you're, you're going into a. Whatever a Retool a rebuild.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, yeah. If you're trading Paolo, it's different. Like I think if you trade Franz it is we're rebuilding around or not rebuilding, but we're building around Paolo. I don't know if you, if Franz is the level of player that you

[Dave Dufour]

build around, but I think I, I would say if, if some, there are some teams that if they get a whiff of Franz Wagner is available, they should jump on that. Like I would say, you know, you, we just talked about the Suns. The Suns. Franz Hockner would be for the Suns. But like I don't know what that trade would even look like, you know, especially because maybe the, the Magic would want picks back. Of course they would want picks back. But like how many picks? And also this is something we haven't talked about yet on the show, but the lottery reform is going to change the value of first round picks and how much that value is going to change. How willing teams are to, to basically move their first round picks moving forward should be really, really fascinating. But I, I think we all agree Magic are cortisol spiking for sure. They have so many decisions to make heading into the summer.

[Esmeral Henny]

Jalen Suggs, by the way is a name to watch out for because yeah, I think with the injury stuff with him and like he's one of. He's probably their most important player when you consider when they have success and when they don't. He's also got a declining contract.

[Dave Dufour]

He has a good contract.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, it's a really good contract. So it's 32mil next season and it declines all the way down. The last two seasons of the deal are 26 million. So four years left. So that's a contract for a starting level point guard. That's good money and good value. So yeah, I don't know. I, I think, yeah, Orlando fascinating offseason.

[Dave Dufour]

Very, very fascinating. I agree.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

All right, well let's go north of the border. Toronto Raptors. Yeah, they had 46 wins this year. S shout out to you for predicting that they would be much better than I think a lot of us were thinking. They got two all stars. You know, obviously we got to see what the Scotty Barnes we. I think everyone finally saw what Scotty Barnes is capable of and everyone really believes in that now. And I think you laid that out really well over the course of the. Of course Brandon Ingram being added into the mix was good for their offense. He eventually got into their mix of their defensive schemes as well. Jacob Total like Yakapoto Excuse me. Yeah, that's the big. That's a big question, his health, you know, what he's able to. What he's going to be able to do for this team next year, we'll see. And then your guy, Dave. Mamu Kalashvili.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Thinking about what to do with him as well.

[Dave Dufour]

He's gonna, he's gonna. He. I mean, I would bet right now that it seems like he's gonna move to a different team just because he's

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

got a player option for what? For those folks.

[Esmeral Henny]

He. He earned money.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

He earned some money.

[Dave Dufour]

He absolutely earned money.

[Esmeral Henny]

And I think he earned more playing time, to be honest with you. I. I think that what we saw out of Mamu as an offensive sub, especially coming off the bench, absolutely was. I mean, this is, this is what I, I envisioned him being able to do there. Right. They needed another guy who could dribble the ball a couple times and do stuff, and then he turned in this, this excellent season scoring. Yeah, he. Mahmoud might get paid.

[Dave Dufour]

It's also like this is, this is one of those things with Mamu where, you know, he hasn't got paid a ton throughout his career yet. It's been like minimum contracts and rookie scale contracts. And so, like, this is his opportunity.

[Esmeral Henny]

This is the one that stuck. Yeah, right. Like, like he, he. I mean, I, you know, the way that, that the league works. He hadn't really washed out anywhere. Right. Like, they loved him in Milwaukee, loved him in San Antonio. It's a fit thing. They love him in Toronto and he fits perfectly. I, I mean, in my heart, I hope he stays because I think it's such a good fit. I think the coach is so good for him and I think the organization, I think it just a great place for him to thrive. Yeah. But like, there was a world in which if he didn't have the season that he did, we're talking about, well, maybe he's going to play in Milan.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

So I think that he's had a chance to really even firmly plant himself as an NBA guy.

[Dave Dufour]

And yeah, Darko actually mentioned this in his postseason availability. He's like, this season was all about Mamu proving he could be an NBA player. And he looked directly at the camera and said, mamu, you are an NBA player.

[Esmeral Henny]

He is.

[Dave Dufour]

You know, and so I, I think, yeah, Donkey 16 says he probably also lost money in that playoff series. Yeah, he struggled against the Cavs, but I think, I think Mama was very important to their regular season success. The combination of Scotty and Mamu Lineup wise, really juiced their offense. And I think, you know, I asked Bobby Webster this in his end of season availability, but he also said that like we kind of, we now see what a stretch five can do for this group.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right, right.

[Dave Dufour]

What that means moving forward for Scotty, for cmb, for whoever. My, my pitch for this would still be feel the heat though. And the reason I say feel the heat is because they are expensive. And they also, you know, between, like you mentioned, Xena, Jakob Hurtl and Emmanuel Quickley and Brandon Ingram are sort of locked into these contracts, two of which I think are difficult to move, one of which I think is impossible to move. And yeah, I think, I think they will struggle immensely. Yeah, I was, I was thinking about like, what would it work if the Raptors did a Brandon Ingram and Yaka Purdle for Joel Embiid swap? You know, because that, it's just like how bad the Portal contract is.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

And just getting off of that is I think will be very, very difficult. That being said, between RJ Barrett's expiring salary, we'll see if they end up extending him. That's a big question for them. And Brandon Ingram being a somewhat expiring salary, like he has a $40 million player option next summer, which he might opt out of for long term money. It's something that I think is still up in the air.

[Esmeral Henny]

How old is Brandon Ingram?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

He's 28.

[Dave Dufour]

I think he's 28 or 29.

[Esmeral Henny]

I bet he opts out.

[Dave Dufour]

I think he opts out too because he would probably want long term money.

[Esmeral Henny]

That's right. He's going to look for a four, four year deal.

[Dave Dufour]

Yes, exactly. So, so, so, so you technically have like $70 million in expiring salary which they will probably use to trade. But the question that I keep bumping up against is who in the world are you trading for? Like what player is available that would really change the trajectory of this team? We just bounced around like Franz Wagner and Jalen Suggs. I don't think those guys really change the trajectory. Like they would be nice additions, but I don't think they necessarily train change the trajectory of this team. I'm really thinking like, how can they get involved for a potential Donovan Mitchell? How can they get involved for a potential Devin Booker or whoever that ends up being the star that comes out next? I don't think they have what it takes to compete for Giannis and I don't think they'll even go for Giannis because of the weary fit issues with Scotty and CMB and I just. Yeah, I just. I think that's the fascinating part for the Raptors offseason. They're expensive. They have ways to make trades. But who do they trade for?

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Is the big question. So that's why they have you.

[Esmeral Henny]

Have you done the math on a wave and stretch on Jakob Hurdle?

[Dave Dufour]

It would be like. It would be like $12 million a year.

[Esmeral Henny]

Maybe more like six seasons or something.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. What's the max? What's the. How long can you do it? It's two times the amount of years you have.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, it's something. I have to look at the four. There's a formula for it. Right. Like it's like number of years plus two or something.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

But just to give context on just how, like, bad. For those of you that may not know what Jakob's contract is, it's 19 and a half million next year player option. He's definitely going to be opting in.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, yeah, he opted in for that.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then it jumps the next year to $27 million, then 29 million. I mean, that. That jump in loan. What have we seen that warrants almost $10 million jump? Nothing. But that's the problem. It's like teams not only having to take on his contract for an additional potentially three years, it's also a $10 million jump for return on a guy

[Dave Dufour]

who's 30 years old and he's a big man who's not a top 10 center in the NBA. I think honestly, it was surprising that they extended him this summer anyways when they didn't need to. And from all reports, if they did not extend him and he was an expiring salary, Jaren Jackson Jr. Would be a member of the Toronto Raptors right now. That was the difference between them trading for Jaren Jackson Jr. And not being able to do it was Jakob Pearl's contract and their inability to move that. So I think that is a big conundrum for this team as they try and build out their roster. They have this dead weight. It's like an anchor that's holding back their team building. I also want to just mention Dave Perrick says Ingram got exposed as fool's gold.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Cool.

[Dave Dufour]

He didn't have a good playoff series. But the other part was, you know, Raptors gave up what would become the number 5 pick to overpay for him. I think that thing has been. There's context lost in that conversation. One, the Raptors had no idea that the Pacers would Tyrese Halliburton's Achilles would blow two. They would have lost the pick anyways because it was top four protected and the Pacers would have got their pick back. So I just, I don't think that's the conversation that needs to be had is like they gave up the fifth pick for Ingram at that point. They just thought it was a first round pick for a contending team. I would, I would still put them at Feel the heat, though. They need to make trades. They need to do something this summer.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. Grady. Dick.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Well, yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Where are you going? You know.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. Okay. Also, last thing I do want to also mention, Mamu is supposed to make 2.8 million next year. That's insane. That's insane.

[Dave Dufour]

He's opting out of that.

[Esmeral Henny]

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Of course. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, of course. Okay. All right, let's keep it going, Boston.

[Esmeral Henny]

I hope he stays though too. Real quick. I do hope.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I hope he stays too.

[Esmeral Henny]

He's such a good fit.

[Dave Dufour]

They will try hard to. To make him get. Get him for the right money. I think it just depends on what they do salary wise with some of these other guys.

[Esmeral Henny]

Hey, if they're smart, hit up, hit up Orlando and see what Goga is gonna go for.

[Dave Dufour]

A little Georgian connection. Why not?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I like it.

[Dave Dufour]

Tape wants to move to Toronto.

[Esmeral Henny]

I do.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Let's keep it moving. Yeah, you do, right? That's true. That's true.

[Esmeral Henny]

Well, not in the winter, though. Let's be real here, guys. I'm not, I'm.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

You're a true long weather. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. Listen, guys, I grew up in Virginia. I'm not into weather anymore. I can't do it. Give me sunny and 75. Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

No seasons, Dave. Okay.

[Esmeral Henny]

I'll drive to the seasons or I'll fly to the seasons.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

That's fair. I respect that. All right, let's go to Boston Celtics. They are a little top heavy. So obviously Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Derrick White, they're going to earn about $145 million next season as I'm quickly doing some basketball reference math here. And no one else on this roster is set to make more than $11 million. That is very top heavy. So trying to figure out what this team did with Jason Tatum coming back from an Achilles tear without Jason Tatum. They were phenomenal bringing back Jason Tatum. It looked really good at the end of the season. It wasn't quite enough. Obviously in the playoffs they've gotten, you know, Nehemiah's Kada. They've got Team option on him. What do we think that Boston's going to do? And also where do you think their stress level is at? I think it's sniff the. Oh, oh. Cortisol spiky.

[Esmeral Henny]

I think it's pretty high. Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh, okay. Maybe I'm.

[Esmeral Henny]

A few reasons.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Explain to me, explain to me. Sorry.

[Esmeral Henny]

This is the third bad playoff exit for. For Joe Missoula. I think that that's a concern. Again, lack of adjustments from the coaching staff. Like you, he's got a great system. I think he's a very good coach. You got to have a curveball come playoff time and he doesn't. Also, this Derrick White contract is looking bad right now. I'm not willing to say worst contract in the league because Derek White is still a very good defensive player. And Jakob Hurdle. Yeah. As long as that deal's out there, Jakob's the new Timothy Mozgoff as far as I'm concerned. Oh, God. You know, but Derek White's got three years and 100 million left and he was borderline unplayable in the playoffs for his offense. I mean, his jump shot is just completely broken. And I just. It's going to be tough. And, and he's getting older. This team probably is overdue for a shake up. Yeah. Derek white's gonna be 32 next season.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. Getting paid 30 million.

[Esmeral Henny]

I think the biggest question is Jalen Brown.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I agree.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right. Is it time to break up the Jays? I think. And I, I don't know. I mean, I think to give up a player like, like Jalen Brown, you better get a haul back.

[Dave Dufour]

I think. I think they will, they will find it hard to break up the J brothers or the, the Jays, if you will, just because of how proven it is that it could work. Yeah, but how do you build out the rest of the roster? I do think that they would. They, they have some level of excitement developmentally from like Hugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh and Baylor Scheireman. Like these guys did contribute as role players.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Esmeral Henny]

Great role player situation. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I, I think that helps them with their cap crunch and their money crutch. Crunch a lot. The question you have moving forward is one, how much are you going to pay Keda? Because he's going to want money. And truthfully, he disappointed in the first round. Got absolutely fried.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, he did. He did.

[Esmeral Henny]

Joel Embiid was wearing them like a backpack. Right. Like he, he looked too small to be playing.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Who.

[Dave Dufour]

Who lost more money percentage wise, him or Jalen Duran?

[Esmeral Henny]

Like, oh, you know what Is I. I still feel like the Pistons are going to wind up giving Jalen Duran the max.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, I do, too. But I think if it was other team, if it were other teams that were evaluating, I think percentage wise, Jalen Duran has absolutely lost more money than Nehemiah because Nehemiah skater was, as Dave puts it, found money. No one really had these expectations. Everyone had these expectations of baby Shaq. Right. So I, I was thinking that it was sniffed attention, and then Jaylen Brown went on Twitch and it went to feel the heat. But now I see where you're talking about the quarters all spiking, especially because of the disappointing exits that Boston has had.

[Dave Dufour]

I will say, though, like, could they

[Esmeral Henny]

be a Giannis team? Guys? Like, this is where I'm at with Boston. Right. I think any of the teams in that top tier except Orlando, like, it just doesn't make much sense. But if they could get Giannis, they would. Yeah. Yeah. If they could, like, would you trade Paolo for Giannis?

[Dave Dufour]

Yes, absolutely. Wow.

[Esmeral Henny]

That's. That's a. We. I've moved you there.

[Dave Dufour]

Yes, you are. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. But like, I think like, Boston, they might be in on Giannis. Like we talked about, who's going to panic trade for Giannis, right? Like, oh, if the spurs had been eliminated in the first round, would they have panic trade for. For Giannis? Like, I could see the Celtics being a team that's like, okay, we're going to go for Giannis. Here's a bunch of young guys that we've got here, like Derrick White's contract, you know, and. And some picks.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. I mean, I think they could make an interesting trade. I also am curious whether they use Derek White's salary to try and make an interesting trade. They obviously, I think they need more help at the center position. Vuchovic being gone and being like, he'll be a free agent, but they're not going to retain him. They have questions of just like, shoring up their front court a little bit. I think they missed that stretch. 5. They hoped that Vuch would be. That he wasn't that. But like, the Porzingis combo is such a hard thing to replace. So I, I don't know. I think they. They. At the same time, the Celtics could run this all back, win 60 games next year, and we wouldn't bat an eye. So I just. Maybe there is a feel the heat

[Esmeral Henny]

versus but come playoff time, I do think that. That we would. We would say, hey, this same team failed last year. What are they going to do different by the way from the chat, this is a good, pretty good comment from Donkey16. Could Chicago throw a max offer sheet at Duran? They shouldn't really care about the playoff performance. Right. This is the thing about. But they. Absolutely. There's multiple reasons. Number one, what if you get Jalen Duran?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, great.

[Esmeral Henny]

You absolutely should try. But also it's weaponizing your cap space.

[Dave Dufour]

So with the lottery form, you want to be somewhat competitive. Like it's okay to be in that middle range now. So yeah, sure.

[Esmeral Henny]

The league is being set up for the Chicago Bulls guys. You hear that? They are just. If you want to hang in the middle. Yeah, you're set. Bad Chicago Bulls. They're not winners, but they're not losers. That's. That's going to be the motto for next season. But yeah, I love that idea. I think they should be throwing money at a lot of people. Get some talent in there.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay, let's, let's keep. Let's keep it moving. Yeah, let's keep moving. 76ers up next. So the trajectory for Jeremy McCain to. Or trading Jeremy McCain to okc is feeling really uncomfortable right now. Every time that Jared McCain just drops a three. Daryl Morey fired. Yeah, that's. That's huge.

[Esmeral Henny]

For ducking the tax.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

For ducking the tax is returning, so that's cool. And embiid is at 58 million dollars. He's a 58 million dollar cap hit next year. Looking at this again, I love that basketball references like casually laying all this out for me. If you hear me like pausing, it's me doing this in real time. Yeah, I'm just reading through this, but. 58 million dollar cap pick next year. Paul George, 54 million dollar cap hit. Tyrese Maxey, 40 million dollar cap. It. Yo, that's a lot of money. But we saw a lot of good things out of them. We just didn't have. Once again, consistency in lineups throughout the season. Joel Embiid's injuries, Paul George's suspension. We saw the BJ Edgecombe, Tyrese Maxey look like the backcourt of the future, but they don't have Quentin Grimesigned, they don't have Kelly Oubre signed, they don't have Andre Drummond signed. They've got options on Dominic Barlow. I don't know if this is. I think this is a feel the heat. I think this is a build of heat. You got to do something with that level of money being tied up in older players and the Joel Embiid process, like you were so close to having it actually convert and Come to fruition.

[Esmeral Henny]

Feel the heat. I think it's, feel the heat. But the new guy is going to come in. What can you do? You can't really do anything. You can, you're not trading away Paul George. Fifty million dollar contract. You're not trading away Joel Embiid. If you do, you're giving up a ton to move it. And so I think you're kind of stuck in what you've got. The, the next guy's job is going to be to add depth. Tony, Tony Jones was on the show today and I thought he did a really great job of talking about how this team was built on a model that doesn't exist anymore. The three star model is not how NBA teams are built now. You need nine or ten guys. I mean the spurs are still playing ten guys in game five of the playoffs. I mean the, the Thunder played ten guys in the first quarter of the NBA Finals last year. It's that league. The Sixers have six guys, five and a half. Honestly, if you, if you want to be honest about it. So I think that their biggest thing is going to be building out depth. You know, you mentioned Andre Drummond. They need a young, they need another young center who is, you know, Adam Bona I think is a great energy, big backup guy. But they need someone who could come

[Dave Dufour]

in and they got nail their 22nd overall pick.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right. They need somebody who can give them 20, 25 minutes a night and be able to pick up 35 to 35 minutes and be a starter. They really need two starting centers.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

And so they can figure that out. That's, I mean, tip your cap. That's the GM of the year.

[Dave Dufour]

You know what's funny? The 22nd overall pick is actually a decent spot to be in if you need a big. There's a lot of bigs in that area and a lot of like high energy young bigs that I think would work well like if the, the Sixers somehow look into Jaden Quaintance or more as Johnson or Chris Cenac Jr. Like these are, these are just names to you guys right now, but they will eventually be like high flying guys who can work for them. Yeah, this, this is just something that I think is kind of interesting because they need to nail this pick. They don't. Also they have the clippers pick in 2028 and another one I think in 2030, which is fascinating because they can make a move. Like let's say what if they're the Giannis team and says, hey, we'll give you the Two Clippers picks, plus Paul George's salary, plus, you know, the 22nd overall pick this year. I don't know. Just throwing stuff out there. I'd imagine the Bucks would want VJ Edgecomb though. That's where things can clash.

[Esmeral Henny]

So don't we all?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay.

[Esmeral Henny]

Every team in the NBA would want D.J. ed.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

All right, let's keep going to the Lakers. This is the topic right now that's just blown up because obviously they're just eliminated. But also this curiosity around what is going to happen with LeBron? What's going to happen with Austin Reeves? Do you keep Luca and Austin together? Does LeBron take his talents elsewhere? What do you prioritize? Essentially they don't have any, you know, big time picks. They're in the 25. They have number 25. They've got number 54. Luca starts his three year max next year. They basically have Vanderbilt Laravia connect.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yep.

[Dave Dufour]

And they have to extend the, the big question for them this summer is like they have to extend Austin Reeves.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Austin Reeves, exactly. He's in line for a five year, $241 million max. Do we think they're going to give it to them?

[Dave Dufour]

I think they will. I think they will. And, and they might end up regretting it, but I don't think they have a real choice in the matter. Like I. Austin Reeves played at a near all star level before he got hurt this year. Luca has vouched for him. If you guys go and read the Athletic, Dan Wikey and and Sam Amick wrote, wrote about this about how Luca basically said Austin Reeves should not be in any sort of Giannis trade, maybe that changes this summer. But I, I really do think Luca being in his, in his wing is really helping Austin Reeves and his long term fit here in Los Angeles. And like between the Kyrie situation, we've seen how important a second ball and, and Jalen Brunson we see how, see how important a second ball handler is for Luka Doncic. He knows Austin Reeves is important to this team. So I think, I think he'll stay. The question becomes really, what about Rui? Is Rui a free agent?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

He is a free agent next year.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, interesting. That is interesting.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

That's a big. This guy that went 55 from three in the playoffs. That's valuable. You don't sell that.

[Esmeral Henny]

Every game's a playoff game.

[Dave Dufour]

They have to extend Rui.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, they've got it. No, they've got to resign Rui. Rui's also a, he's a really great player. To have next to Luca, you know, it just feels like him at the 4:3, he, he guards well. Like, Rui's turned into a really good player.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Little P.J.

[Dave Dufour]

washington esque.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, right. He's reliable. He will shoot. Right. It's not just that he makes a lot, but he will also shoot every single time he's open. And if you're playing with a guy like Luca, that's how it's got to be. So I think they got to bring him back. Their center situation, that's tricky. I think deandre Ayton probably could get more money. Right. Like, I think he, yeah, he's gonna opt out.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

But they could upgrade there. You know, in the chat, they're saying, go get Gafford. Daniel Gafford from Dallas. Luca would love to reach out about Goga. I think Gogo would, would be a pretty good backup for them. But Gaffer would be great if he's available. That's, that's a big question. And, and if you're Dallas new gm. I, I don't know. Can you, can you trade Daniel Gafford to the Lakers from the pr.

[Dave Dufour]

Can Messiah and Mike, Mike Schmidt do it? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. I, I, I also just like, from a pure ranking perspective, I would say sniff the tension because I don't. I think you have Luka Doncic, you know, you're going to sign Austin Reeves. There's obviously the LeBron James question of it, but I think they're in a they can't lose moment here with LeBron. If he stays, great, that's awesome. LeBron showed that he can be a very, very useful player for you this year. If he doesn't stay and he moves on, boom, you have a bunch of cap space to go out and sign rotation players, and you also have the three picks. I think it's an important offseason. There's tension there. But when you have Luca, when you have Reeves, when you're entering this competitive window, I don't think there's this, like, feel the heat necessary for.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, the Lakers are at. I disagree. I disagree. I only disagree because there's so much work to still be done.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

You've got to extend Rui. Of course we talked about Austin Reeves. There's no Luke Canard, and we know how big Luke Canard was at when, when Austin Reeves went down in terms of his outside shooting. There's no Maxi Cleaver. Marcus Smart has, you know, we'll see what happens there. But he was huge for in Terms of his, his leadership for this team and what the junk defenses worked because Marcus Smart was involved in that and he had the mentality to be involved in that. To me, there's too many, there's too many holes still that I don't know where. How you're going to plug them in around a very particular player like Luca.

[Esmeral Henny]

So I think this is what buys them time, though. I think this is why it's not as pressure filled of a situation because they, they're just now turning over to the Luca team. They were in between, right?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

And it was. They were in a position where you still had the remnants of what was left from the LeBron ad era and now it's a new thing. And I just think that turnover, this is a normal part of it. The, the one thing you could say is Luca's getting older, which is funny to say, but like he's, you know, he's not.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, I mean you can't, you can't slow roll this. You have to do it quickly, which is maybe part of the feel the heat conversation.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

That's what I'm thinking. And like there's. That's a lot of work to do in a small amount of time for a team that wants to win a championship.

[Dave Dufour]

Can I, can I make a pitch? So we have the Blazers here and feel the heat and we have the Lakers and sniff the tension. How do we feel about making a swap? Doing Blazers sniff the tension. Lakers feel the heat.

[Esmeral Henny]

I don't think, I don't think it's that desperate for the Lakers yet.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay.

[Esmeral Henny]

We may be having a different conversation this time next year.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay.

[Dave Dufour]

I agree.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay. All right, well, let's keep it going. Let's keep it going.

[Esmeral Henny]

Inside Lakers exceptionalism. Right. Like, it's never stressful for the Lakers because they're always going to be gifted a top five player. Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Always figure it out.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. And I don't mean gifted as in people give it to them. I just mean they figure out ways to do it.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Things happen to fall in their lap sometimes. Okay. Houston Rockets, they've got personality. Yeah. Just at the top. They've got a problem. They've got a lot of problems. They obviously. Kevin Durant, Alpert, Shangoon, tying up a lot of money, over 70 million on your cap and you're not getting what you need out of the two of them, particularly Alper and Changoon. Brett Van Vliet has got a player option. I don't know. There's just not enough. He's Opting into that, probably 25 mil. You're looking at Reed Shepard, Amen Thompson with team options.

[Esmeral Henny]

Oh, yeah. They're. They're. They're gonna.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

They're getting those.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yep.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

And then what. What do you do that's different about this team that's going to get you to the next stage?

[Dave Dufour]

So, look, blow it up. I agree that cortisol is spiking for this group, and I think. But I will try to play devil's advocate here and say feel the heat because Fred Van Vliet was hurt, Steven Adams was hurt, and those two guys were major, major factors. That's true also. You know, like, I think naturally they will have to figure out the. Like,

[Esmeral Henny]

maybe.

[Dave Dufour]

Am I forgetting this? Did they fire IME Odoka?

[Esmeral Henny]

They did not.

[Dave Dufour]

Am I imagining that?

[Esmeral Henny]

Because maybe they should, right? Like, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Right. I.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Well, you. I don't know if you heard the pause that I took when I was breaking this down. When I first opened, I was, like, thinking in my mind, did they fire ime? And that's what I had.

[Dave Dufour]

That's like a memory wormhole, memory hole thing I'm having right now where I'm like, did I dream that they fired IME Udoka?

[Esmeral Henny]

He's gonna look. He's gonna stare at those guys from the sideline even harder next year, right? He's gonna look.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Even burning holes through jerseys. Yeah, It's.

[Esmeral Henny]

Honestly, that's. That's just.

[Dave Dufour]

Maybe I am. This is like a deja vu situation, and I've seen the future, you know, and I. I think maybe Udoka does get fired here. That's. That's another pitch here to, like, feel the heat instead of quarter.

[Esmeral Henny]

I think the biggest thing that they've got to deal with is Kevin Durant. It's. It's. Can this locker room exist with Kevin Durant? I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing that he wants out.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. You know, it's so funny that once

[Esmeral Henny]

you get into the Kevin Durant business now, like, you just need to know what's coming.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Eme survived this season with Kevin Durant because a lot of coaches don't. Right. Like, a lot of coaches get fired after they. They get Kevin Durant in the house. So, you know, shout out to Eme for making it through one season with kd, but I think that they've got to figure that out.

[Dave Dufour]

Are they a Yanis team?

[Esmeral Henny]

I think they. They probably should be. Yeah, Absolutely. If. If they could. If they could convince the Bucks that Alper and Shingoon is Actually good.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

And trick them into taking Shingun. You know, I. I think that both of those guys would be on the table if it was me. You know, if I could get Giannis Antokounmpo for the next few years of his career, I think I would just say, hey, here's a man. Here's Alpert and Shingoon. And we will figure out the. The role players around Giannis. Neither one of those guys would work with Giannis. Like a. Men especially. You just can't have a non shooter out there.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Whereas Giannis and KD is. I don't know, it's at least interesting.

[Dave Dufour]

And you have Fred Van Vliet and you have Stephen Adams who's like great rebounder. Can. Can be this nice screen setter who like I'm.

[Esmeral Henny]

I'm assuming is going to come back and be healthy next. Never know. I mean he is massive and it was a lower leg injury, so.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yep.

[Dave Dufour]

That's fair. That's fair. Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

I agree though.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Cortisol spike, lot of heat. Okay. Denver Nuggets. Oh, that first round exit. I. I came back from vacation and was like, what. What is going on? They are well over the luxury tax and both aprons. They're. But they've got a starting five that does really well, especially in the. They figure out how to win games in the regular season. Cam Johnson has an expiring deal. Probably could trade that away.

[Esmeral Henny]

Are we gonna have to.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. And then Tim Hardaway Jr. Is an unrestricted free agent.

[Esmeral Henny]

That he should come back.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

He should come.

[Esmeral Henny]

He should. He should say, okay, Nicola Jokic, I'm your guy. I am playing the rest of my career with you.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Like he undoubtedly had one of the best years of his career.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, he was awesome.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I. I think my question for them is the difference between Cam Johnson and Peyton Watson.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right. Oh, and then like the Christian Brown contract is looking pretty rough.

[Dave Dufour]

Pretty terrible.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They gotta find a way to extend Peyton.

[Esmeral Henny]

Everybody is on the table for trade except for Jokic. They're saying like I wonder. I like to the Nuggets, like could, could. Could the. Could the Nuggets come up with enough to get Giannis there? I don't know. That'd be. It'd be interesting. I think Jamal Murray, like there's a big question mark around Jamal Murray, like after his playoffs, you know, he just had such a great regular season and was healthy for the first time in forever.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Y.

[Esmeral Henny]

What? You know, I wonder if maybe they're not ready to move on from him.

[Dave Dufour]

He had this. It's so weird to evaluate Jamal Murray because his entire career has been next to Nikola Jokic.

[Esmeral Henny]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

And so you just talked about Tim Hardaway Jr. And the sort of, like, amplifying effect, but that applies to Jamal, too. And Jamal had an all NBA year. He was great even in the games that Jokic missed. So maybe you could sell yourself on who, whatever team is trading for him. You can sell yourself on like, oh, this guy can be our all star guard. We need him for that, whatever. But what does that get you in this market? And. And again, it comes down to, like, who's available. This is the. It's kind of the same thing I was mentioning for the Raptors, where it's like, okay, you know, they have to make a trade, but you don't know who's available to actually improve this team. You might as well just run it back and see what you have. But I agree that the quarters all is spiking because they disappointed in the playoffs, because they have the Peyton Watson question. Because we know that this team doesn't necessarily like to pay, you know, just pay their guys relatively. And then the Christian Brown contract is anchoring them. The Jamal Murray contract is interesting at the very least. It's just a lot of questions for an expensive group that needs to win a championship, you know?

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I think the Cam Johnson being moved is absolutely the. The route to be able to get some space.

[Esmeral Henny]

Definitely. They've got a tough summer. They're gonna have to be creative. Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah. Okay. Let's close it out with a team that actually hasn't been eliminated.

[Esmeral Henny]

This is funny.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I think we are just predicting the future here. And this is the Minnesota Timberwolves. They. What do we think about this? I actually don't think that they have this much tension in. In the off season. They had the injuries with Anthony Edwards, and he still came back and performed incredibly well. I'm trying to tell you exactly where he is with his contract. Okay, so he's. He signed till 2028.

[Dave Dufour]

He's locked in.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, locked in. Rudy's locked in. Julius is locked in for next year. Julius, Randall Jaden's locked in, and Nas is locked in. You've got solid players, and then you've got Dante Divincenzo, who will be, you know, he'll be injured. We'll see when he comes back. These days, folks are coming back from tears so fast.

[Esmeral Henny]

I think we got to think about Dante as a contract for this summer.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Okay. Okay. All right.

[Esmeral Henny]

Well, because it's one of the few ways that they're going to be able to upgrade is. Yeah, by moving his deal. Like, the money is going to help them quite a bit if they're.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Oh, this feels so unfair. This is like the second time that this has happened. Third time this has happened to Dante DiVincenzo that he's moved because of contracts dollars, not because of his play. Yeah, that's really unfortunate.

[Esmeral Henny]

Of course, in the chat, they're mentioning Kevin Durant to the Wolves, and I think, you know, did. Did the Wolves not dodge a bullet by Kevin Durant going to. To Houston? I mean, they just. It feels like part of what the Timberwolves have going on is culture. They have a team culture that seems extremely solid for whatever, like, you might think about, like, Rudy Gobert. Those guys, they. They're on his side. Right. Like, and. And there have been times in his career where you could say that is not true about his teammates. Anthony Edwards, so clearly like the leader of the locker room there. And I think everything trickles out from that. You add KD into that mix, and we have just seen it over and over and over again. It's. KD is kind of like black licorice. And I just. It like, do you guys.

[Dave Dufour]

What's wrong with.

[Esmeral Henny]

Do you like black licorice?

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I don't. I'm not a.

[Esmeral Henny]

It's an acquired taste.

[Dave Dufour]

I like Twizzle.

[Esmeral Henny]

And I just think that if you add kd, which is in a. He's an acquired taste to your locker room, your locker room's got to be set up to handle that. Maybe the Timberwolves have that because it's such a good locker room. I would be super nervous about bringing a guy who's that moody and just, like, doesn't seem like he's very friendly with his teammates into a locker room where these guys, like, they are. They're ready to go to war together. I mean, I just. I would not do that at all. I now, I could see the Timberwolves being a Giannis team.

[Dave Dufour]

I could see that, too. And I mean, look, they've. They've played around with the idea of trading for Giannis. I think between Randall and McDaniels and Nas Reed, they have, like, interesting players.

[Esmeral Henny]

Can't, can't lose Jaden McDaniels.

[Dave Dufour]

I. I see this is the thing, like Jada McDaniels huge culture guy. Nas Reed fan favorite. But it feels like they will probably have to trade one of those guys. And I would lead Nas Reed, I think same it Makes sense to move Nas. My. I actually had a trade recommendation for you guys. Let me know what you guys think. Okay. Nas Reed and Dante Divincenzo for Jalen Suggs straight up. And Jalen Suggs is a Minnesota guy. And you get your starting point guard. He fits culturally. He fits defensively. You get Suggs and Ant as your backcourt.

[Esmeral Henny]

And of course, Orlando gets a stretch

[Dave Dufour]

four, Orlando gets a stretch four, slash five, and boom, there you go. That's the.

[Esmeral Henny]

That's. I don't hate that.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I don't hate that either.

[Esmeral Henny]

I don't hate that. Someone in the chat also said Drew Holiday for the Wolves. And I really love that.

[Dave Dufour]

That would be awesome.

[Esmeral Henny]

Drew Holiday, Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels. That's tough. That's really tough.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

You get that better in presence.

[Dave Dufour]

Where are we putting them, though?

[Esmeral Henny]

Well, the truth is, as constructed, they're a pretty good team like this.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, I think it's.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, I. I don't think that they're in. Anthony Edwards is not even in his prime yet. Rudy Gobert is the. The guy that they have to start thinking about replacing down the line.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, right. He was great this year.

[Dave Dufour]

I.

[Esmeral Henny]

So I. I'm expecting Rudy to be very good next year, but he is getting up there in age a little bit. But I, I think it's Everwolves, you know, they're just. They're. They're a com. A contender. They're going to be in striking distance of the finals every single year. As long as they put a team together around Anthony Edwards like he is. He is one of those guys like Anthony Edwards. You can close your eyes and you can picture shout out to Andrew Schlect, who's not here, but you can picture Adam Silver handing the Larry o' Brien to Anthony Edwards. Yeah, And I do think that, like, I love that. I just love that. That thought exercise. And as long as you put a good team around him, you're going to have a shot. I mean, this guy, like, he's playing on one leg right now. This is the sort of guy that. That in the NBA you can build around. Their issues are going to be all on the margins. And I think that we're going to be back next year. The Wolves are going to be right back here competing to go to the conference finals and maybe the finals. They're. They are that good.

[Dave Dufour]

The good thing is, I think they've seen what Terence Shannon Jr. Can provide. So that's a marginal win. Joan Barringer, he's not playing in the playoffs. Right now. But like, he should be though interesting moments in the regular season that like, maybe he turns into a backup. Big for you. And then of course, I think genuinely, you look at this team and you're like, they have seven guys who they can rely on consistently night in, night out. They have six or seven guys that, like, could match with any rotation. The thing is, I guess this is the thing for the Wolves in general. They're not good enough to beat the spurs. They're not good enough to beat the Thunder. And when you're in that conference, maybe they're the ones that will. Will benefit the most from expansion. Because if the Wolves move to the Eastern Conference, then you are cooking. They. They are now every single year they have a chance to make the finals and who knows what happens? But that's the issue. It's just, how do you face and beat the Thunder and the spurs in the West? You know, and I think the Rockets should be asking themselves that question. I think the Lakers should be asking themselves that question. I know we didn't put those guys in like, cortisol. Well, we put the Rockets in cortisol spiking. But like, every team in the west right now should be asking themselves, do we have a chance to win a championship if the spurs and the Thunder exist for the next 10 years? Tough.

[Esmeral Henny]

I mean, you can't just bail out, though. That's the thing.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

No, you can't. You can't.

[Esmeral Henny]

I agree. We might be going. Yeah, we might be going into the Wimby decade, but you still got to try.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I mean, hey, people. People still want in the LeBron and Steph decades, you know. That's right. They still.

[Esmeral Henny]

I mean, we haven't had a repeat champion in a long time. And I, I keep coming back to this. We are in the, the parody era. And I think even with a guy like Wimby, you can't guarantee anything because of the way injuries work, because of the coaching in the NBA. It's too good. Like, Wemby is going to have to constantly adjust. We're already seeing him adjust in the playoffs with the way that, that he's having to approach things. So I'm just. There's no perfect team and there's no perfect player. And I'm not ready to just say, hey, Wemby owns the NBA. I mean, Shay Gilders Alexander is still the best player in the league. Right? Absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

I also, yeah. Personally don't want to do anything that jeopardizes the growth that we're seeing Jaden McDaniels take the leap right now. Like, I don't want anything to knock his like he could easily be the second best player on this roster.

[Esmeral Henny]

Yeah, you got Jordan and Pippen. Don't mess it up.

[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

Yeah, don't mess it up. I'm with. I'm with you on that. Okay, y', all, that's our stress levels. Let's just really, really quickly recap. Cortisol spiking the Magic, the Celtics, the Rockets, the Nuggets, feeling the Heat, the Blazers, the raptors and the 76ers. Just a little bit of tension you're sniffing are the Lakers and the Wolves and then low cortisol. They're chilling, but they got decisions to make. The Suns and the Hawks. Let us know if you agree with us. Appreciate all of you that joined us on the morning shoot around. All of you that are listening now, make sure you are liking and subscribing so you don't miss this discourse. And also the nightly breakdowns that we're doing for all these playoff games. We're having a lot of fun covering them for you. On behalf of Dave Defore Esperahenney, I'm Zena Kaeda. Thank you for joining and we'll see you guys next time. Now more people than ever can bring in their bill for a better deal at Verizon.

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[Shay Gilgeous-Alexander]

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