Ben Gulliver (2:58)

Well, first things first, I consider myself like a 99th percentile Sixers skeptic, so I'm as shocked as anyone is to be here, honestly. Andrew, you. You look like you had a concussion like Wemby because of this Denver Nuggets result. So I really appreciate you trying to power through this, but we're going to get you tested. All right. In terms of the factors, I see a few different. First of all, obviously, Embiid got the rust off. They looked terrible when he first came back, and now they're really looking seamless offensively. I felt like the balance between him, Maxi, Paul George, and a BJ Edgecombe was like exactly how you would want it if you're Philly. They actually felt like a team with everybody out there. It didn't feel like everyone's like, you know, trying to work around Embiid or it's Embiid show. It was just kind of seamless and very team oriented. That's a big part of it. Obviously, Boston can't hit shots. That's a huge part of it, too. They live and die by the three more than basically anybody right now. They're dying. I also look at this idea about Maxi, though. They cannot keep this guy out of the paint. They can't keep him in front of him. You remember go. Going back to the finals, when Boston won the championship, Luka was in jail. Right. I mean, he had so much trouble. And obviously their personnel has changed a little bit for Boston. Some of their forwards are probably, you know, better equipped to guard a player like Luka rather than a quick guard, like a Maxi. But he is just torching them. And if they don't figure that out, and I'm not sure how they figure it out, I don't see a good matchup for him. I could see Philly stealing this thing, man. And like I said, I'm one of the biggest skeptics out there.

Andrew (4:22)

That would be if the Sixers win. If the Sixers beat the Celtics. I know the whole thing with the Sixers is like, oh, they've never made the conference finals. And the Joel Embiid era. Yeah, if they get past the Celtics, it's not this fine conference finals, but that is like one of the most improbable series wins that I can remember based on the way people are talking about Boston coming into this playoffs.

Ben Gulliver (4:46)

Well, they do banners for the NBA Cup. Do you put a banner if you beat the Celtics? I mean, first time in 40 plus years, right?

Andrew (4:52)

It's true. 1982, I believe it was a trivia question a few weeks ago. Okay, Hawks, Knicks is over dramatically. The Knicks have won three games in a row. They beat the Hawks by 51 points in Game 6 to move on to the second round. Now, early in the series, there was a long list of concerns with the Knicks. Everyone was freaking out about them after seeing how they played in games four, five and six. What would be your biggest lingering concerns about the Knicks heading forward? Or do you feel like they've answered most of those questions that we had through three games?

Ben Gulliver (5:26)

Well, I thought the losses where they're, they're right down to the end. Mike Brown's making some questionable timeout choices. Maybe they're not executing exactly how they want. You want a championship team to be able to win the close games, not just the games by 50 plus points. Right. And so I guess in some of the late game execution stuff would probably be my biggest questions lingering at this point and. But Ochi and Anobi answering a lot of questions as a one man army. I mean, what a series for him, what a challenging matchup kind of for whoever they, they face next. I think that right now, the way they've played in this playoffs, they have the highest ceiling of any team in the East. Like their best moments have been better than anybody else's. And I think they actually have the highest baseline of any team as well. And to me, those are usually, you know, factors I look at when I'm assessing, you know, favorites or you know, a standing. So right now I think I'm on Knicks to the finals, you know, and I didn't have that before the playoffs, but I think that they're the most bankable team. Still some late game stuff to iron out like I mentioned. But I'll take their problems over everybody else's problems right now. I'll put it that way. In the East.

Andrew (6:25)

I think I agree with you as well.

Alex Spears (6:28)

Onto the series that has me concussed. This ended tonight. I have just like endless thoughts about the Denver Nuggets, about like what happens from here, where do we go? Obviously, like you have to really, we have to really like congratulate the Wolves because this is a very gutsy win for them. And Jaden McDaniels is a legend in Minnesota forever. For the quotes, for the way he played in this game. I mean, he closed this game for them like he, he ended the Nuggets season. Let's, let's, let's go Nuggets first and let's spin to the Wolves and talk about if they have any chance against San Antonio. But where do the Nuggets go from here? How do you remake this roster? Does Adelman keep his job? Like there, there are just, I feel like so many questions for the Nuggets as they head into the off season.

Ben Gulliver (7:22)

I think I'm going to become a tattoo artist in the Twin Cities because you already are making money off the Nasri tattoos. Now you're about to get a whole new wave of McDaniel's tattoos. You're going to be a millionaire by the time this thing is over. Based on their, like, cold heroes they have growing up there in Minnesota. Like you said, it was such a gutsy win. And that's, that's really why this one hurts for Denver, because you have better talent, right? You've got a healthier roster. At the end of the day, you really have no excuses. You had some momentum coming in from the, the end of the regular season, but you got outworked with the season on the line, point blank period. And your best player wasn't good enough. That's the scariest part to me is Joker has now lost two playoff series in the last three years and that he should not have lost both of them to Minnesota. And so obviously there's some matchup stuff there, but if you compare them to OKC or San Antonio or anybody else who they were going to play down the road, I think that they would have been disposed of pretty quickly. In this current orientation, I think you have to take a look at Adelman. But, you know, to me, the story of the Nuggets here, it's like the gradual brain drain that sometimes happens from organizations, right? Where, you know, it's not like some Kevin Durant's not leaving the Thunder and changing everything overnight, right? But Michael Malone goes, you know, Michael Porter Jr gets traded, this guy leaves in free agency, this guy leaves, this guy gets traded. And all of a sudden you're looking around and saying, wait a minute, a few of these pieces are still here from the championship run, but an awful lot has changed around them. And a lot of these guys look aged. Jamal Murray was a mess in Game seven, you know, start to finish. And so if you're talking about how you remake the roster, you probably have to start it with like, if you're going to do something radical, it's probably got to be Murray. But, you know, I, I don't know if they face the same championship level expectations and pressure that some of these other organizations do. If I had to guess, it's going be just kind of this sad continued brain drain heading into next year where maybe we, we enter the fall and we say, you know what, Denver's good, but they're not actually title contenders. That'd be a tough place to be, but I think that's the most likely outcome.

Alex Spears (9:19)

Yeah.

Ben Gulliver (9:19)

Wow.

Andrew (9:21)

I want to ask you about the Wolves because I'm still, I'm, I'm very impressed by, by what they did in this series. They're going now into a series against San Antonio spurs and I, I'm, you know, everyone's going to be picking the Spurs. We don't know what's going to happen with ant. I'm assuming IO's going, is there anything we can look at with this Wolves team to think that they might be able to give the Spurs a series?

Ben Gulliver (9:46)

Well, let's give credit to their defense. It was absolutely phenomenal. I mean, nobody dropped from regular season performance to playoff performance offensively more than Denver. And, you know, Joker's had his shooting struggles. Murray was, you know, running out of gas, you know, towards the end of the series. But this was just a high level of compete and very effective interior defense. Right. And so when you're looking at San Antonio and the offense has been humming, they've been scoring it from all these different places, they're on such a great momentum run through, you know, joyride, really, for the entire regular season. And they took care of Portland pretty quickly. They're going to see a different level of defense against Minnesota. And so you're just trying to make it as ugly as possible. Now this is, you know, one of those things where they talk about the Chrysler 300 looks like a phantom until the Phantom rolls up. I have a feeling that might be the Rudy Gobert experience going against Wemby. Wemby is just the ultimate phantom right now. I mean, this guy is out of his mind. I think even before what happened to Denver just happened, I would have had Wemby above Joker in terms of, like, going into next season. I think that now looks sealed and I think this is a real moment for him to break through at an incredibly young age. So I am with the masses. I will be taking San Antonio. But I think if you're Minnesota, you're so proud of how you won this game. And you're also just so thankful for Jaden McDaniels just talking unbelievable amounts of trash and backing up all of it. How many big plays did he have at the end of this game? Six. I mean, he had the steal on Murray that kind of. In the backcourt, I guess maybe it wasn't technically a steal. He gets to steal on Jokic. He hits the pull up jumper. I mean, you guys could tell me his box were. I mean, he had a great line across the board, this guy. Colt hero status cemented forever. And, you know, I'm not a big moral victories person, but if they go down in five to San Antonio and they're always going to remember that night. That crowd was lit in Minnesota. A Rod. That's the happiest we've seen a Rod ever. I don't even know if he was that happy when he was Jeter's teammate. Man, it was like the best night of his life.

Alex Spears (11:44)

Yeah. McDaniels, 32 points, 10 boards, three assists, two steals, zero turnovers, by the way.

Sean Hyken (11:52)

Wow.

Alex Spears (11:52)

13 to 25. I mean, just. He was. He was amazing in this one. It was very fun.

Ben Gulliver (11:59)

Well, so what do you think for Denver, though? Where do they go?

Alex Spears (12:03)

I mean, it's really tricky because you could. You could say, like, okay, we need Peyton Watson back, certainly, and he's not that good. I know. And we need to find a way to get Aaron Gordon healthy and through the season. The problem is, like, Aaron Gordon is so important to how they function in the regular season that you can't, like, I mean, the Thunder kind of bubble wrap Alex Caruso throughout the season for reasons like this. And they can afford to do it because they have the depth. We thought Denver had the depth, but it was just names we knew. Jonas Valentunas, Tim Hardaway, Jr. Tyus Jones, Bruce Brown. All these guys are names we know, but none of them were really able to perform up to the level they need to. They need to be able to find depth, and I don't know how they do that. I thought that maybe Jalen Pickett or Julian Strother would be one of those guys. They don't. They didn't play in this game. So the fact that, like, we get to the end of the season and the coach just turns to the names that we all know and know that they can't help you. They have. They don't have one problem. They have, like seven problems, I feel like. So I. I don't know how they solve it. I really don't. Maybe it's you trade one of these guys and hope that you can get two role players back that are not as good. Like, I think they have to consider trading Cam Johnson with how his season went. Now, he may have been their best player tonight, but they still are going to have to probably consider trading him for maybe a couple pieces. But I don't even know if he can do that. So I don't know. I would not want to have that job. That's going to be a tough job this summer.

Andrew (13:37)

Ben, did you, did you see this coming? Because I know. I feel like there were two groups of Nuggets observers, one who were just kind of banking on the history, looking at that end of season run, seeing how they rose defensively in the playoffs last year, and just kind of thinking it would all work out. That was me. And then there was another group. They were like, this team's really bad defensively, really bad defensively. Like, something is wrong here. Which, which one of those camps were you in heading into the playoffs?

Ben Gulliver (14:03)

I think I was probably more with you, especially once the injury started mounting for Minnesota, where I was like, come on, you gotta be able to take care of this. That's why I wind up coming from this series. Really disappointed in Joker, you know, I mean, this is a big loss on his resume and his resume is darn near Sparta. Spotless over the last five years individually. Right. But he is a part of the defensive problems that you're talking about. He was not able to overcome his defensive limitations by dominating Rudy Gobert like we've seen at times in the past from him. And so I'm now, you know, there's all these bubbling debates about mvp, best player in the world. Like, I had Shea as my MVP this year. I think Shea's got a really strong case as best in the world. Top one on my top 100 going into next season. Because Joker just did not have that same level of impact that we've been accustomed to. Even in some, you know, series where he's lost, you felt like, hey, he's the best player on the court and, you know, it just really wasn't there. So that's what's got me nervous. Also, to Andrew's point about the trade chips, I mean, Aaron Gordon, you can't really trade him because you need him and you're not going to get back. Great value because he's hurt all the time, right. And he's on a big contract. You know, Cam Johnson, I mean, what could you get for Michael Porter Jr. He's not as good as Michael Porter Jr. So what can you really expect to get back there? All their role players are like very, you know, classic veteran role players who sort of do one thing well and not other things very well. And so those guys, you can't package them together and to get a star. And so that's why I wonder, like, if you're really going to shake up the roster, it's probably got to be a Murray trade. You get something good back for him. But again, I'm not sure if you're getting plus value back in a Murray trade. And so that's why I worry, given their ownership's track record of, hey, let's, you know, try to save where we could save and, you know, try to just be respectful, respectable. Hope Joker could carry us. I feel like their main goal is going to be to get him to sign an extension and then, hey, whatever else happens, happens. They just have not shown the commitment to me to. To do whatever it takes to be an NBA championship contender. And, you know, usually there's cycles to these things. It feels like they've kind of reached the end of the cycle. I. There's no scenario that I could really picture today where I'm going to go into next season and feel like they can compete with teams like Oklahoma City and, and San Antonio who are clearly on the rise, or even a team like Boston who are going to expect to come back full with Tatum and maybe some roster upgrades. They just don't have the talent and they don't have the defense and they don't have the depth. Those are. That's what's winning right now in the NBA. And they're short in all those categories.

Alex Spears (16:25)

Yep. They're just missing Russell Westbrook. Okay, let's move on. Friday night. We're recording this before Friday night, but there are many game sixes happening. Cavs wraps, Pistons, Magic and Rockets. Lakers. What's the most surprising thing from any of these series? Take your pick.

Ben Gulliver (16:44)

Well, look, I mean, we got to talk about the Lakers potentially being the first team ever to blow a 30 lead in a series. You know, I wrote about it today. You know, I think some people are going to rush to use that against LeBron and, you know, legacy debates and go debates. I kind of go the other way. I think if they actually do lose in the reverse sweep, they lose games 4, 5, 6, and 7 and they lose to Houston. I think it says more about the chaotic NBA that we're seeing right now. It's obviously parody. It's three point Dependent, it's injuries, you know, guys in and out of lineups. All these different factors are affecting the Rockets Lakers series. And I think if the Lakers aren't the first team to ever blow a 3, 0 lead in NBA history, another team will come along relatively soon and do it because that's just the environment that we're living in right now with this modern NBA. I think it makes for some really exciting moments. Like this has not been a pretty series, Lakers and Rockets, but it's been like edge of your seat. Like watch every moment. The crazy comeback in Game 3 for LA, you know, the Rockets staving off elimination even though they're young on the road. You know, that was a phenomenal performance in game five. It really silenced the crypto.com arena. So there's been so many layers to it. But the fact that we're here, like where the lakers even held a 30 lead and now they're in position potentially to blow it, I've got to consider that a big surprise. Even though we're also looking at a number eight seed in Orlando that maybe could upset a number one seed, right?

Andrew (18:06)

Yeah. So, last question. Non playoff news. The league has presented the owners with a new plan for draft lottery form called the 3:2:1 system. Now in brief, the system would expand the lottery to 16 teams, flattened odds for slots four through 10 and a relegation zone, which has nothing to do with relegation for slots one through three. They would punish the worst teams in the league with worse odds than slots 4 through 10. Ben, what are your thoughts on the overall proposal and do you have any favorite unintended consequences that people have brought up since it's been introduced?

Ben Gulliver (18:38)

Well, it feels like the goal to me is to get rid of some of the ugliest games that we were seeing down the stretch. Right. Like that's the whole idea behind the relegation is like we at least want teams to have some motivation to not be the very worst and to play competitive games in March and April. So kudos to them. My main take on this proposal though, I'm sick of proposals. Okay, just loop me in, you know, cc me on the email when it's official. We don't have to drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. This. I mean, the NBA already milks the awards for like three weeks, which I actually kind of like because everybody gets his day in the sun, right? And it, it builds some suspense. And you know, Wemby had the defensive player of the year moment. Presumably Shea is going to have the MVP moment. And that's fun. I Don't need six weeks of unfun public banter about tanking during the middle of the playoffs, which is the best time of the year in my mind. So call me when it's voted on. You know, that's my general take. And I encourage all podcasters everywhere to adopt that Zen approach. You don't have to dig into the 3, 2, 1, relegation nitty gritty until it's official. Now walk with me.

Alex Spears (19:41)

I like it because then it's like, hey, the NBA is leaking this out. And it's like, do people like this? Are there things that we're not thinking of? Let's let them think about it. Let's let them think about it for us. And then we'll just get back together and put all their thoughts into one jar and we'll figure. Figure it out. It's like, you know, what do you think? It's good. Do you actually think this is good? Let's figure it out.

Andrew (20:00)

Yeah. Okay.

Ben Gulliver (20:03)

I look at it. I'm just. I appreciate when large corporations solicit feedback. You know, I think, you know, talking to your customers, having a healthy dialogue is good. Focus groups. I'm pro focus group. You know, I'm just. That's a part about me that I'm willing to admit on your podcast. This has gone too far. Okay? It's gone way too far. And we just need the ending. We just need to fast forward until the final buzzer with this one.

Alex Spears (20:27)

Pro focus group, anti Chrysler 300.

Ben Gulliver (20:31)

Yes.

Andrew (20:31)

Yes.

Ben Gulliver (20:32)

And I'm a Ford guy. What can I say?

Andrew (20:34)

Now, before we get to trivia, Ben, each week during the playoffs, we like to do a playoff draft just to get kind of a feel of where we're at right now. So we draft teams based on who we think has the best chance of winning the championship. You can see the Week 1 results down there when we had Josh Robbins on. So, first, Ben, what draft slot would you like to pick from? 1, 2, or 3 based on how confident you are in your. In your picks?

Ben Gulliver (21:01)

I mean, I'll. I'll take whatever you want to give me, but I just think the Oklahoma City Thunder are winning the championship. So I don't know what, what gimmick you guys are running, but give me the.

Andrew (21:10)

Sounds like a very strong one. And Andrew was two last week, so I'll be two this week. And I'll, of course, be taking the San Antonio Spurs. And Andrew, who would you take? Number three at this point? Is there a team you can pick?

Alex Spears (21:27)

I guess I have to take the new York Knicks. All right, let's go, Knicks, because they're the only team in the Eastern Conference that looks like they're on stable ground right now.

Andrew (21:40)

Now, this is actually the most interesting pick because I do think those three.

Alex Spears (21:43)

Yeah.

Ben Gulliver (21:43)

Are.

Andrew (21:44)

Are the obvious picks.

Alex Spears (21:45)

They are.

Andrew (21:46)

Who would you take number four, Andrew.

Alex Spears (21:48)

At this point, as a Philadelphia 76 or skeptic, I will take the Boston Celtics still. And that I think they could still. If. If any of these teams can get it together, I'll say it's Boston.

Ben Gulliver (22:02)

Yeah. You sound super convincing with that. Big. Very confident.

Andrew (22:06)

Well, he's going to sound more convincing than I'm going to be because I'm looking at these teams that are left over.

Alex Spears (22:13)

He taking Orlando. Who are you taking?

Andrew (22:15)

I guess. I mean, I guess the smart pick is Cleveland because they're up 3, 2. I mean, they may be tied. They may be going to game seven by the time you're listening to this, but they would be playing the winner of Detroit. Orlando. I just cannot pick Orlando. I cannot pick it. Although I guess the Miami Heat did do it.

Alex Spears (22:34)

Listen, so I'll go with Cleveland.

Ben Gulliver (22:37)

Guess what I'm gonna do? I'm breaking all your rules. You've never seen this before in this gimmick. I'm taking the Thunder again with my second pick.

Sean Hyken (22:47)

Whoa.

Andrew (22:47)

Command C. Command V, W. Look at that.

Ben Gulliver (22:53)

And I'm taking it with my third pick. If this is a snake trap, we

Andrew (22:56)

are not going to three rounds based on the way we've talked about these other teams.

Ben Gulliver (23:00)

Okay, so we don't need that.

Andrew (23:02)

But what we do need is to play some trivia. So it's time for Andrew versus the Beat. I've come up with eight trivia questions all related to this year's playoff so far. So, Ben, you're going to give me a number between 1 and 8. It will correspond to a question. If you get it right, you'll get at least two points. If you get it wrong, Andrew, have a chance to steal for one. And we'll go back and forth until all the questions have been asked and answered. So to start us off, I just need a number between one and eight.

Ben Gulliver (23:26)

Seven.

Andrew (23:28)

Question number seven. Which seven footer has the most three point attempts in this year's playoffs?

Alex Spears (23:36)

Ooh.

Ben Gulliver (23:38)

Oh, man. Man, you're putting me on the spot here. Which 7 footer has the most 3 point? I'm not getting any hints. I can't call a friend. You got nothing for me?

Andrew (23:52)

The only hint would be that this is seven footer. According to Basketball Reference. So if you, if you know everyone's heights from their basketball reference page.

Ben Gulliver (23:59)

Oh man, I don't know. I got a pass. I'm sorry I'm not a big trivia guy.

Andrew (24:03)

Andrew.

Alex Spears (24:04)

Is this Jokic?

Andrew (24:06)

No, it is Donovan Clingan.

Ben Gulliver (24:10)

Oh my gosh.

Andrew (24:11)

Donovan Clingan took 25 threes in the first round.

Ben Gulliver (24:16)

He didn't make too many of them, I don't think.

Andrew (24:18)

No, he did not. He shot 20% on those.

Alex Spears (24:22)

Yeah, isn't that wild?

Ben Gulliver (24:25)

I, I, at the same time, maybe it's better to stay away from Wemby. You know, it's like I didn't work, but I don't know if there were alternatives for him.

Andrew (24:33)

Yeah, probably not. Andrew, board is yours number one question number one. Okay. The Knicks led the Hawks by 47 at halftime of game six, setting a playoff record. Now the all time record is held hailed by the Dallas Mavericks. Do you remember this game? They led the Clippers 77 to 27 in a December 2020 game. Now only four Mavs scored in double figures in that game. Luca was one of them and then three other players. Can you name the three other Mavs

Alex Spears (25:10)

who scored double digits on the 2020 December?

Ben Gulliver (25:16)

Yes.

Alex Spears (25:16)

Yes.

Andrew (25:16)

What is this December 2020 game against the Clippers that everyone.

Alex Spears (25:20)

I'm going to gain my bearings here.

Andrew (25:22)

77 to 27 at half. Really? This is more just about. Can you remember any Mavs on the 202021 Mavs?

Ben Gulliver (25:33)

I got one idea. I don't know if that's going to

Alex Spears (25:36)

win 20, 20, 21 Mavis. Tim Hardaway.

Andrew (25:45)

There you go. Tim Hardaway Jr. That is one correct.

Alex Spears (25:55)

Brunson.

Andrew (25:56)

Jalen Brunson.

Ben Gulliver (25:58)

Oh, that was my guess. Is that right?

Andrew (26:00)

That is right. Yeah. He had 11 points. Any other guesses? Can you get the last name? Andrew

Alex Spears (26:08)

Cleba.

Andrew (26:10)

No, not Maxi. Ben. Any other names?

Ben Gulliver (26:15)

I, for some reason. Like was there a Dorian Finney Smith in there? Maybe, or.

Andrew (26:20)

He was on the team.

Ben Gulliver (26:21)

Oh, but he didn't do it because he didn't achieve anything. What about PJ Washington? Was he on the team?

Andrew (26:26)

He was not at that time. The name?

Ben Gulliver (26:29)

That's right.

Andrew (26:30)

The trade is Josh Richardson. Josh.

Ben Gulliver (26:33)

Josh Richardson. Wow.

Andrew (26:36)

But Andrew, good job. You got those two names. That's good. Okay, Ben, board is yours.

Ben Gulliver (26:40)

I'll take four. These are going to get easier, right? Or no?

Andrew (26:44)

Unfortunately no.

Ben Gulliver (26:47)

Okay.

Andrew (26:47)

By sweeping the Suns, the Thunder have now swept their first round opponent in three consecutive playoffs. Who was the last franchise? I guess not a who. What was the last franchise to accomplish that so you don't have to tell me the years, just the last franchise who swept three consecutive first rounds. Oh, boy.

Ben Gulliver (27:07)

And I saw some stats about this during the game four broadcast. I'm gonna go the Bulls, but I don't know.

Andrew (27:15)

So the Bulls were one of them. That was correct. But they were not the most recent.

Alex Spears (27:21)

Andrew, it's Cleveland, right?

Andrew (27:24)

Is the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Ben Gulliver (27:26)

Oh, very nice.

Andrew (27:27)

In 15 through 17. I was surprised the warriors didn't do it.

Ben Gulliver (27:33)

Well, they used to.

Alex Spears (27:34)

They.

Ben Gulliver (27:35)

They patented the whole like, drop a game so you get the extra home revenue, game five thing. That was the. Yeah, the Warrior signature go to move. Because, you know, once, especially once they got the new arena, man. Yeah. A lot of money at stake in those games.

Andrew (27:50)

All right, Andrew, board is yours.

Alex Spears (27:51)

Number two.

Andrew (27:52)

Question number two. Iota Sunu scored 43 points off the bench in game four against the Nuggets, the second highest scoring game off the bench in NBA playoff history. Who were the other two bench players in this year's playoffs to score 30 in a game?

Alex Spears (28:10)

Other two bench players to score 30 this year's playoffs?

Andrew (28:18)

You do get one point for a correct answer. Who would this be? Who?

Alex Spears (28:35)

I will guess. Gosh, I don't know that he did this.

Andrew (28:50)

You know, it's funny if you go back and look at the guys who have had bench players who have had multiple 30 point games in the playoffs.

Alex Spears (28:58)

Yeah.

Andrew (28:58)

The most recent guy who's had three. I don't know if you would ever guess it, but it makes sense when you think about it. It's Steph Curry.

Ben Gulliver (29:07)

Oh, geez.

Andrew (29:08)

You're.

Ben Gulliver (29:08)

You're on a different level, bro. You're on Final Jeopardy. In like a new. A new dimension. I have one guess. It's a pretty obvious one.

Andrew (29:15)

Oh, oh, wait, Andrew.

Ben Gulliver (29:17)

Andrew's got to go. Sorry.

Andrew (29:19)

Do you have a guess, Andrew? I.

Alex Spears (29:27)

This guy didn't come off the bench.

Andrew (29:28)

Why am I thinking of him?

Alex Spears (29:30)

I keep thinking of Scoot, but he didn't come off the bench. Or did he?

Andrew (29:35)

Did he come?

Alex Spears (29:35)

I don't know that it came off. Did he come off the bench in that game? I scooted. Scoot.

Ben Gulliver (29:39)

Yeah.

Andrew (29:40)

No, that's wrong, Andrew.

Alex Spears (29:44)

I'm like, I don't think he came off the bench. I'm pretty sure he started. I just tricked you into that. I know. He has come off the bench. I don't know.

Andrew (29:52)

Ben, what was your name that you were.

Ben Gulliver (29:53)

You were thinking. I was gonna go. Peyton Pritchard.

Andrew (29:55)

That is correct.

Alex Spears (29:56)

Oh, I got one P. God.

Andrew (29:59)

On the board, Ben.

Ben Gulliver (30:00)

Oregon's Finest. Oregon's finest.

Andrew (30:02)

Any. Any other names you just want to throw out there?

Ben Gulliver (30:06)

So the other. I mean, I was thinking of Dylan Harper. I don't think he Quite got to 30 though. Right.

Andrew (30:09)

Like he was just short 27, I think.

Ben Gulliver (30:12)

Yeah. And then A.J. mitchell basically took 30 shots, but I don't think he scored 30.

Alex Spears (30:18)

He did not.

Ben Gulliver (30:19)

And he's been starting too. So anyway, that was it.

Andrew (30:21)

That was Jonathan Kaminga.

Ben Gulliver (30:25)

Oh, yeah.

Alex Spears (30:27)

Oh, yeah.

Ben Gulliver (30:29)

Devious question.

Alex Spears (30:32)

He swiftly erased that from all of our memories over the last few games.

Andrew (30:36)

Yeah. Okay, Ben, board is yours.

Ben Gulliver (30:39)

I'll go five.

Andrew (30:41)

Question number five. Okay, this is another really annoying question. But Ben, you've been around a long time. You might get this. This is a game. This is. The game is near and dear to my heart. Well, listen to it. In game five of the Pistons Magic series, Cade and Paulo both had 40 point games.

Ben Gulliver (31:02)

Oh, yeah.

Andrew (31:03)

The last time two number one picks scored 40 plus against each other was game one of the 2001 NBA Finals. One of my earliest NBA memories, when AI and Shaq scored 48 and 44 points respectively. Now at this point you're probably wondering why wasn't that the question? Who was the second leading scorer for the Sixers and the Lakers in that game? Now you get one point per correct answer and I will tell you that on the Sixers, the second leading scorer, two guys. So if you score, if you name either of those guys, they tied.

Alex Spears (31:36)

Oh my gosh,

Ben Gulliver (31:39)

dude. I was going to say AI in Shaq and actually feel like somewhat smart. And then you have to get just absolutely nuts with it. So it's obviously not going to be Kobe because then otherwise why would you ask this question? Right. No.

Andrew (31:52)

Interesting thought process.

Ben Gulliver (31:53)

Okay, I'm trying to read you. You know, you don't have any tells. Derek Fiser. I don't know.

Andrew (32:03)

Derek Fisher. That is incorrect, Andrew.

Alex Spears (32:07)

It's going to be weird. Like it's definitely going to be weird or else you would not ask this.

Andrew (32:14)

I don't know if that's true.

Alex Spears (32:16)

It's always true. What about Rick Fox?

Andrew (32:22)

Yeah, Fox.

Sean Hyken (32:23)

Yes.

Ben Gulliver (32:24)

Holy cow, dude. I'm in the wrong era. Anyways, with my D Fish, I was thinking of Lou got stepped over.

Alex Spears (32:31)

Fish was on that team though.

Andrew (32:32)

Andrew was.

Alex Spears (32:35)

Yeah, I mean, I think he was.

Ben Gulliver (32:39)

Save some. Save some credibility there. That's good.

Andrew (32:43)

Do you have an answer for the Sixers, Andrew?

Alex Spears (32:47)

I was going to guess Aaron McKee.

Andrew (32:50)

You know what? That would have been my guess and it's wrong. It was number 20, Eric Snow.

Alex Spears (32:57)

Eric Snow.

Ben Gulliver (32:58)

Wow.

Andrew (32:58)

And. And Dimbe. Oh, yeah. And Derek Fisher was on. The Lakers looked it up.

Ben Gulliver (33:05)

I was going to go to Kembe. I feel like I get partial credit there. But that was only because I was the only person I could picture in my mind from that series besides AI. So.

Andrew (33:13)

Okay, we're going to give Ben a ghost point.

Ben Gulliver (33:17)

Look at that sympathy. I appreciate it. That's nice.

Andrew (33:20)

Then I put it in parentheses down there. Still counts. Andrew, board is yours.

Ben Gulliver (33:25)

How are we still going? We've got halfway through this. Jesus. Dude.

Andrew (33:29)

There's three remaining. Three remaining.

Alex Spears (33:31)

Number three.

Ben Gulliver (33:32)

Question number three. It's the middle of the night.

Sean Hyken (33:34)

What are we doing?

Ben Gulliver (33:35)

Okay, sorry.

Andrew (33:36)

Okay. Actually, I do think they okay the rest of them. Ben, I think you got a great shot.

Ben Gulliver (33:43)

All right. I appreciate it.

Andrew (33:44)

And also, you're only down three. We've had.

Ben Gulliver (33:46)

There's only been three. Anyway, continue. Sorry.

Andrew (33:50)

Okay. I was supposed to look this one up because I says, it says Here we've had XX 30 point games so far in this year's playoffs. Whatever. It's a number. Who cares? It's not important to the question. Let's name the 10 active players who have had the most 30 point playoff games in their career. So how this works. Andrew will give me a name, then Ben will give me a name. We'll go back and forth to one of you stumbles. So active players, most 30 point playoff games in their career. Andrew, where would you like to start?

Alex Spears (34:18)

Jokic.

Andrew (34:20)

Jokic. Okay. I mean, yes, that is true. I thought you might have gone for some more obvious names. He is number seven on the list.

Ben Gulliver (34:26)

Dan Generous. Thank you for leaving me with LeBron. I'll take LeBron.

Andrew (34:31)

LeBron. Number one, Andrew.

Ben Gulliver (34:38)

Tatum.

Andrew (34:39)

Tatum, number eight, Andrew. Why are you getting so risky here?

Ben Gulliver (34:44)

He's got some strategy here. I don't know what it is. It's like. It's like reverse psychology. He's going to leave me. Kevin Durant. I'll take Kevin Durant.

Andrew (34:50)

Yes. Kevin Durant.

Alex Spears (34:51)

Number two, James Harden.

Andrew (34:54)

There. Okay. James Harden. Number four.

Alex Spears (34:56)

Back to Ben.

Ben Gulliver (34:57)

I'll go. Steph Curry.

Andrew (34:59)

Steph Curry. Number three, Andrew.

Alex Spears (35:07)

Active players, active players.

Andrew (35:14)

Most 30 point playoff games.

Alex Spears (35:19)

What about Shay?

Andrew (35:21)

Andrew. That is incorrect.

Ben Gulliver (35:24)

Really?

Andrew (35:25)

13th on the list.

Ben Gulliver (35:26)

I got one more guess. Can I get double points if I get this?

Andrew (35:29)

You will get. You will win if you get it. I mean, you'll win the question.

Ben Gulliver (35:33)

I'll take two points. Thanks. Russell Westbrook.

Andrew (35:36)

Russ is 11th.

Sean Hyken (35:39)

Come on.

Alex Spears (35:40)

No way. No way. Wow.

Ben Gulliver (35:45)

All right. I get no points. Wait, do I get a point? Because he tapped out first.

Andrew (35:48)

Yeah, yeah, I'll give you a point.

Ben Gulliver (35:50)

Okay, thank you.

Andrew (35:51)

The other names. Giannis Kawhi, number six. Kawhi Donovan Mitchell, number nine.

Ben Gulliver (36:01)

Wow.

Andrew (36:01)

And Luca, number 10. I think he has one more than Russ.

Ben Gulliver (36:06)

And then that's crazy that Russ isn't on there. I know.

Andrew (36:10)

And then Brunson is 12 and Jimmy Butler is 14, in case you were wondering. Okay, two questions left, Ben. Six or eight?

Ben Gulliver (36:18)

All right, I'm going, I'm going. Six.

Andrew (36:21)

Okay. This is the first time since 2014 that six first round series have gone to at least a game six. Name two of these six first round series that went to at least six games in the 2014 playoffs. And you get one point per correct answer.

Ben Gulliver (36:40)

Oh. Oh, God. You know, now I'm feeling concussed. All right, 20, 2014. First you have to kind of like work backwards and think who played whom. Man.

Andrew (37:04)

Memorable playoffs, I would say it was,

Ben Gulliver (37:07)

but I'm backloading on the memorable aspects of it. I feel like. Was San Antonio, Dallas, Was that one of them?

Andrew (37:20)

That is right. Ben, you're within one point is now four to three.

Ben Gulliver (37:25)

Can you get another one in 2014? Oh, man.

Andrew (37:31)

And that one went seven. Spurs Mavs.

Ben Gulliver (37:34)

Yeah, they used to always say that was like one of the hardest ones, right? Yeah, I feel like the Pacers had one, whoever they played, but I don't remember who they played, so I think I'm gonna have to tap out.

Andrew (37:52)

Well, why don't you just. You can just pick a random east team. Maybe you'll get it.

Ben Gulliver (37:56)

Yeah, that probably. Maybe not, though. It's not coming to me. I don't know. Sorry. Okay.

Andrew (38:08)

Andrew.

Alex Spears (38:10)

I believe Thunder Grizzlies went seven.

Andrew (38:13)

Yes. This was when Zach Randolph got suspended, right?

Ben Gulliver (38:18)

Oh, wow.

Andrew (38:19)

Wasn't that that series? Was it that one?

Alex Spears (38:23)

I don't think it was that one.

Andrew (38:25)

Okay, well, it was Portland over Houston. That was the first Dame.

Ben Gulliver (38:30)

Oh, the Darium's winning shot when he waved up Dwight Howard. Yeah, that was memorable. Should have gotten that one as a Portland person. Sorry about that.

Andrew (38:40)

Clippers over warriors right before they became the Warriors.

Ben Gulliver (38:44)

Oh, yeah.

Alex Spears (38:45)

Yeah.

Ben Gulliver (38:46)

Chris Paul's last stand.

Andrew (38:48)

And then Indiana was involved in one against the Atlanta Hawks. Went seven.

Ben Gulliver (38:53)

Yeah.

Andrew (38:53)

And then if you had gotten Brooklyn over Toronto, I would have been very impressed.

Ben Gulliver (38:59)

Wow.

Andrew (39:00)

No memories of that.

Ben Gulliver (39:01)

Who did the Heat be in the first round that year? Who did you have that. Now I'm hitting you with trivia question. Not so easy.

Alex Spears (39:09)

When the Rabbits got the gun, I think that. I think they played The Bobcats, if I'm remembering right.

Andrew (39:15)

Wow. Really?

Alex Spears (39:16)

I think so.

Andrew (39:17)

Okay, let's take a look here. Here we go. They beat the Charlotte Bobcats. Wow. And he wins off that.

Ben Gulliver (39:26)

He wins off that. That's. That's. That's my resignation right there.

Andrew (39:30)

That was a disgusting flex, Andrew.

Ben Gulliver (39:33)

Thank you.

Andrew (39:34)

Okay, Andrew, if you're so smart and I really want you to answer this, who scored the most points for the Charlotte Bobcats in that four game series?

Alex Spears (39:41)

Oh, my gosh.

Andrew (39:42)

This is. This is an amazing trivia question which should give you an idea of what the answer is.

Ben Gulliver (39:46)

Was this the purple shirt guy series? You remember the.

Alex Spears (39:50)

Yeah.

Ben Gulliver (39:51)

Where him and Dwayne Wade were like going back and forth? Maybe. I don't know, maybe there was like a fan courtside who was like talking trash and then he like everybody. The whole Internet turned on him because Charlotte was getting run off the court. I'll google this while you're.

Andrew (40:06)

Oh, I see it. I see it. Yes. Oh. Although this. It says here Charlotte leads 3, 2. So this must have been a different year.

Ben Gulliver (40:14)

Okay,

Andrew (40:16)

Heckler, purple shirt guy. Andrew, the answer was.

Alex Spears (40:22)

Wait, you're not even gonna let me guess? Hold on, hold on.

Andrew (40:24)

Go answer it.

Alex Spears (40:27)

Is it Al Jefferson?

Andrew (40:29)

Nope, it's Josh McRoberts. All right, final question by one point over Kemba Purple.

Ben Gulliver (40:38)

Sure. Guy was two years later, Miami Heat and the Bobcats had become the Hornets at that point. So at least the right protagonists were involved. We're almost in the right zone here.

Alex Spears (40:50)

Josh McRoberts.

Andrew (40:51)

Okay, Andrew, final question. LeBron has played in 297 playoff games. How many times has he scored at least 20 points in the playoffs? Now you get to choose who answers first. You can make Ben answer first and then you go higher or lower. Or you can answer first and then Ben would go higher or lower. So out of those 297 games, how many of those did he score? At least 20 points. And what would you. What would you guess? Or would you like Ben to guess?

Alex Spears (41:15)

229.

Andrew (41:17)

All right. Ben, would you like to go higher or lower?

Ben Gulliver (41:18)

I'm going over. I'm going to specifically guess. 245.

Andrew (41:23)

Correct answer is 264.

Alex Spears (41:28)

Oh, yeah.

Ben Gulliver (41:28)

Easy one.

Andrew (41:29)

Which means Ben gets the point. And depending on whether we're counting ghost points or not, this could be a tie game. But I don't think ghost points actually count.

Ben Gulliver (41:38)

Let's do like six more rounds to break the tie.

Alex Spears (41:41)

Ben, do you want to do more questions?

Andrew (41:45)

So Andrew, you win five to four. That's a good one.

Ben Gulliver (41:50)

Congratulations.

Alex Spears (41:52)

Go check out Ben at Substack and go listen to the greatest of all talk podcast. Ben, thanks so much for coming on.

Ben Gulliver (41:59)

Thanks for having me, guys. Let me win next time, please.

Alex Spears (42:02)

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Sean Hyken (43:09)

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Alex Spears (43:34)

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Alex Spears (43:47)

And with us now, our friend from the Rose Garden report, Sean Hyken. The Listen, this guy knows what's going on with the Blazers. And the Blazers were recently eliminated and so we just wanted to get the skinny on the Blazers, so we brought in Sean. Sean Hyken, thanks for joining.

Sean Hyken (44:05)

Thanks for having me on, guys.

Alex Spears (44:08)

So the Blazers were knocked out of the playoffs this week, losing to the spurs in five. It was an expected outcome, but were you surprised by anything in that series on the Blazer side? Like good or bad?

Sean Hyken (44:21)

I was a little surprised. They both, they blew both of the double digit second half leads in the two home games. You know, after they stole one in San Antonio in game two, especially with Wembanyama out with a concussion for the third game, I was like okay, well, at least they're going to split these two home games and it's going to be a six game series instead of a five game series. Spurs and five was my prediction going in. But then they blew both of those games and I kind of knew that it was over after that.

Andrew (44:52)

What'd you think about some of the pieces of the young core? Because you know, this is our first time seeing a lot of these players in the playoffs. Scoot obviously had those two awesome games. You also had Clingen who wasn't as good. What were your general thoughts on the young core?

Sean Hyken (45:09)

I think overall, I mean it was kind of a mixed bag on all fronts. You know, I was really, you know, I was really impressed by the performance that Denny AIA had in the first game because he had a, you know, 30.10 rebound, five assist game and only got to the foul line six times. And so I was, I had been kind of going into that series wondering how a, how he was, you know, because so much of what he does and what makes him effective is driving and getting to the, to the, to the line. A, how he was going to be able to adapt his game to, you know, having the other team have Wemb and Yama in there protecting the rim and B, just, you know, the playoffs are just a lot more physical and the refs let a lot more stuff go. So if you're not getting the, the calls, you know, how are you going to be able to adapt? So I think Danny showed that he is able to adapt his game in that way. Scoot as you mentioned, had those first two games where he was awesome, particularly the second game and then obviously the last couple games not so much. Clingan, I'm not really surprised struggled in that in this series because I just don't think this was a good matchup for him because A, like he couldn't do anything against Victor Wemban Yavin, like who can? But he's also just because of the type of, you know, the type of player he is in his body and stuff, he's just too slow to keep up with. Once they started going to some of those smaller lineups in the games where Wembanyama was out or even just in the non wemby minutes when they had him in there, you know, that was just that those are the types of matchups that he struggled with throughout the season. So I'm not really surprised that he struggled there. But I don't know. Overall I think, you know, there's things to take away from for all of those, you know, the players who are kind of in that category. And, you know, it's. It's going to be interesting to see kind of where it all goes from here and who's around who's not, how the, you know, who's coaching the team next year, how the ownership situation is going to affect everything. It's going to be a pretty interesting off season on pretty much every front for these guys.

Andrew (47:02)

Well, you led me right into my next question because exit interviews were on Thursday and there's obviously been a lot of reporting surrounding the Blazers head coaching position. How did the players and Tiago Splitter handle those questions during exit interviews?

Sean Hyken (47:17)

Well, the players were pretty universal in. Whenever they were asked about Tiago and the job that he did, they all said they thought he did a great job. They all said that they love playing for him. I think if it was up to the players pretty much universally, you know, I think they would all like to have Thiago back next year. Obviously, you know, with the ownership situation and, you know, other things, I think, you know, we'll see what ends up happening with that. What Joe Cronin said when he was asked about the coaching position was that they are going to do a search. Thiago is going to be in consideration for it, but they're going to talk to a bunch of different candidates. And Thiago for his, for his end, obviously, you know, he wants, he wants to be back. He wants to keep the job. I think, you know, I've been, I've written this multiple times over the last couple of months, weeks. I think the right thing to do here would be to give Thiago the job. I don't think what more somebody could do to earn the job given the circumstances that he found himself in, taking the job with, you know, his boss getting arrested by the FBI on the second day of the season and him being pushed into it unexpectedly and then also having to navigate all the injuries that he had to navigate and getting them to 42 wins and a play in victory to get the seven seed. And then they were pretty competitive for most of the series against title contender in San Antonio. Like, to me, you'd have to make a pretty compelling argument that he shouldn't get the job. Like, you'd have to, you'd have to really come up with something to convince me that that shouldn't be how this goes. But, you know, the, the owner's a wild card here, so, you know, we'll see. But I think Thiago, I actually thought today Thiago was very, very honest with us about some stuff that he, you know, would like to do differently as a coach, you know, going forward in his next, whatever, whether his next job is here or somewhere else. And some of his shortcomings, I think I, I think he's earned the right to, you know, have a full off season and a full training camp with, you know, his own staff and his own playbook and his own, you know, off season to put in all that stuff. But again, you know, we'll see how it all shakes out and who else comes available and you know, what the, what the budget is and what the price range is and all of that.

Andrew (49:28)

Do you, do you have any sense for the type of coaching candidate they're looking for? Because there has been that reporting that, you know, the owner was talking to college coaches, like, do you think that is real? Like that they are looking kind of everywhere for, for a next coach or, or do you think they're more interested in like a NBA developmental coach, something like that?

Sean Hyken (49:49)

Well, it's absolutely true that Tom Dundon, even before he officially took over the as owner, was cold calling random college and international coaches trying to, you know, offer, you know, a salary that is, you know, pretty laughable as far as, you know, what NBA coaching salaries are. Like, that's stuff is pretty widely out there. I've reported it, others have reported it. It's, you know, everybody's pretty much all reported the same thing on, on that front. You know, the team has kind of pushed back on some of that stuff. Joe Cronin said today that he doesn't think that Tom Dundon would flinch at like if they had to pay what they had to pay to get like a real, you know, big name experience type of coach. Yeah, that, you know, Joe gave the impression that he thinks Dundon would be willing to do that and pay what it costs. But you know, you look at the track record of, you know, the way that the head coaching position has gone with the Carolina Hurricanes, where the coach that he's had there for the entire time that he's owned the team, Rod Brindemore, is a franchise legend who doesn't want to coach anywhere but Carolina. And so as a result, he keeps taking these below market deals and he has to fight to even get his assistant coaches paid even a little bit. And just kind of, you know, the, the, the track record is what the track record is as far as, as far as this stuff with, with, you know, the way that, the way that Tom Dundon approaches the, you know, these types of decisions and the budget and stuff. So, you know, they, as much as, you know, they. They're right now, they're kind of at least like the public messaging from the organization is kind of pushing back against this idea that he only wants somebody who's going to work cheap or any of that stuff. I think that I, I think at this point just with how much of this stuff is out there, I don't think they've really earned the benefit of the doubt for that. So, you know, we'll see who they end up hiring whether they do decide to. And I don't even know who like the experience, quote, unquote experience like big name coach is that would.

Alex Spears (51:48)

Right.

Sean Hyken (51:49)

Make some sense for them. Like the one that kind of made sense to me just thinking about it on paper was like a Taylor Jenkins, but he just took Bucks job. So he's off the board now. And I'm not sure who else would be, you know, in that category that would really make sense for these guys. I don't think Tibbs is really, you know, a fit. I even before he took the Carolina job, I don't think Michael Malone was really a fit. But those are really kind of the names you're talking about with those types of guys. And then if you're, if you're going to go for more of like a, you know, NBA assistant coach who, you know, is getting his first head coaching opportunity and, you know, is kind of a younger coach who's going to develop into, you know, into a good NBA head coach. You kind of have that already with Thiago sprinter. And he just was. That was the exact position that he was in. And he got, as I said with, you know, with everything that went down with Chauncey and all this stuff that Thiago had to navigate though, or he's kind of has already proven that he's able to take, you know, pretty difficult circumstances all across the board and have success with it with a very flawed roster. I think everybody would agree that the Blazers outperformed their talent level this season, especially when you take into account all the injuries that they've had and the fact that, you know, this Chauncey thing happened on the second day of the season and that's like this big national scandal that has a lot of attention on and yet it never became a distraction in the locker room. It never really derailed the season like something like that easily could. I think Thiago should get a lot of credit for that. And you know, as we Saw today at exit interviews, all the players very, you know, came out and said, you know, we really love playing for him. We, we think he did a great job. You know, we, you know, we all love, you know, the job that he did. Like, to me, the obvious thing to do would be to you know, make, I mean, obviously I think it's probably, you know, I, I don't think it's a bad idea to do a search because they haven't really had a real coaching search since 2012 when they hired Terry Stots. Because the coaching search that they had when they hired Chauncey was like, they basically, Neil Olshe was always gonna hire Chauncey. And then they just, you know, once the, the sexual assault allegations came out, they were, they kind of pretended to interview Becky Hammond as like a makeup call, but that was always going to be Chauncey's job. So they haven't really done a real coaching search since 2012. So doing a search and seeing who's out there and who wants to talk to them about the job, I don't, you know, I don't think that's the worst idea in the world. But just from where I sit and you know, what I've seen from it this year, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to convince me that there's somebody else out there that it would be a better choice to have the job permanently than Tiago.

Alex Spears (54:20)

So. The Blazers head coaching position is just one of many topics that have come up in recent weeks in reporting related to the new Blazers owner, Tom Dundon. You reported on the two way players not traveling to San Antonio early in the series. You've talked with more people as you've talked with more people around the Blazers and around the league. What are like the expectations for what this Tom Dunn experience is going to be like?

Sean Hyken (54:46)

Well, it's not just the two way thing. It's a lot of other stuff. You saw, you know, the stuff that Chris Mannix had about the staffers being made to check out of hotels early on game days because they didn't want to pay the late checkout fees, which is I, I have also verified that that's, that is true. And just kind of some of the reductions in the traveling party today at the Today at Ex interviews, Joe Cronin tried to, you know, take the hit for the two way thing. He said it was on him. He said that he, you know, assumed that it was going to be, you know, that because there were all these reductions in the traveling party that that would Include the two ways and that he just didn't double check or didn't communicate. That's what the official explanation is. You can land where you want to land on whether you believe that or not, but that's what the official explanation is that's being put out there on that. But you know, this stuff is out there for a reason like this, you know, there's, there's nothing, you know, with all of the, you know, indications that we have so far based on the track record. And I will say that, you know, in, in Tom Dunn's defense and the thing that he's going to point to as his defense for all this stuff is that the Carolina Hurricanes have been a very, very well run and successful franchise since he bought them. Like the way I've kind of been explaining it to NBA fans and I don't know a whole lot about hockey, I don't follow it, never have. But since I found out last summer that he was going to be the one buying the team, I've done a lot of work research about him and some of the stuff he's done with running the team and the way I've been explaining it to NBA fans is that the Kings were or is that the Hurricanes were the Sacramento Kings before he bought them and they're the Indiana Pacers now where like they used to be a complete joke and now they're pretty well run like small market team, doesn't have a huge budget, but they're competitive every year they're in the playoffs. They're, you know, they're, they're, you know, a respectable franchise. That's what he's been able to do with the Hurricanes. So I think the positive side of it is, you know, he has that track record of his teams do win, his teams do have success. But I think he's gonna end up having to find out that some of the stuff you can get away with cutting corners on cost wise in the NHL you can't really get away with in the NBA. Like you saw the way this two way thing blew up and like I don't think he's ever had that much national attention and public backlash to something that he did with the Hurricane. Just because nobody really nationally covers hockey in the same way that they cover basketball doesn't get the same amount of media attention or you know, the stuff with, you know, this coaching salaries. NHL head coaches make a lot less money in general than NBA head coaches do. NBA players and agents have a lot more power than NHL coaches do. And you know, there's just going to be some things that he's going to have to adapt to and get used to. And so, you know, he's either going to be able to adapt to that stuff and the Blazers are going to have kind of the same track record that the Hurricanes have, or he's not, and he's going to think that he can just do things exactly the same way that he does them in the NHL. And then you know that that's probably not going to go well.

Andrew (57:42)

So your, your most recent post on the Rose Garden Report was about this upcoming summer, which you described as the Blazers most crucial off season in recent memory. Other than deciding on what to do at head coach, we've talked about what are some of the other major questions the Blazers face this off season.

Sean Hyken (57:59)

Well, so off the court, there's still the arena renovation negotiations that are going on, which they're trying to get $600 million in public funding to renovate the Modus Center. They've already locked in the the state's portion of it. They're still negotiating with the city council and with Multnomah County. So that's going to take the next couple of months at least to do that, but they're aiming to get that done. So that's obviously going to be a huge thing. I've never really taken the relocation stuff very seriously, personally. This is just kind of how this stuff and you guys are in Oklahoma City. You, you know, you know how this goes where they're trying to, like get, you know, funding for an arena. So they kind of float out there, whatever they need to float out there in order to make, you know, make whatever happen happen. So there's that part of it. And then as far as the roster, like, I think the roster is going to be very different next year and we've already kind of see it's already been telegraphed. Tom Dundon said when he did his introductory press conference in April, right after the sale closed, that there was a trade that Joe was looking at at the deadline that would have been some sort of big splash for a star. I don't know who that might have been. I mean, maybe it was Giannis, maybe it was something else. I don't know. But that he, you know, he basically, I all the impressions that I've gotten are that, you know, Tom Dundon would love to make some sort of splash like that and make some big swing. And I don't know who that player could be, but it sounds like he is not really interested in either, you know, Missing the playoffs or just having the ceiling of a first round out. He wants to have a much higher ceiling for what the team can do as far as how far they can go. So I think there's, you know, there's. He's going to try to be opportunistic about that kind of stuff and, you know, it'll be. It'll depend on who comes available and what the prices are on stuff and all of that, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they try to take some sort of big swing.

Alex Spears (59:50)

Who are Blazers fans dreaming of?

Sean Hyken (59:53)

Well, fans are dreaming of Giannis. I personally don't think that's a good idea, but that's the one that's, that's out there. I mean, I guess if, you know, those are the types of names that I think you're gonna, you're gonna see floated. You're gonna. I think, I think Tom Dunnan would like to see, though, Blazers actually be connected to those types of names, like maybe if, if Houston ends up losing the series and like, they just need to get out of the Kevin Durant business because the vibes are so bad. That might be something they try to do. But though, like, the one, the one that, like, has been kind of a pipe dream for fans is Giannis, which, I mean, I don't. I personally, if I were me making a decision, that's not something I do. But, you know, I think that's such an obvious new owner trying to make a splash, move to make. So, you know, we'll. We'll see if that happens. But I think that. I think that. I don't think it's off the table.

Andrew (60:39)

And that one's so interesting because of the new lottery changes, these picks they have from Milwaukee, if those lottery changes go through, those picks are obviously still valuable, but they're not valuable to Milwaukee at quite the same level where they, you know, can control them getting a top five pick, essentially. I, I'm. I'm so interested to see how that plays out, because I do feel like Portland is going to be more affected by those lottery changes than a lot of other teams. Because of those Milwaukee picks.

Sean Hyken (61:08)

Yeah. And I think that could be a situation where it saves the Blazers from themselves a little bit, because before we, you know, started talking about these changes to the lottery system, the Blazers having those Bucs picks and how good those picks were going to look under the current system, my thought had been that if they wanted to, they could beat pretty much any offer that any other team could, could have for Giannis. Because they could just give the Bucks those picks back. As I just said, I don't think personally, just my opinion, I don't think this team for where they are and you know what they need. I don't think trading for Giannis is a good idea for them. It's not something I would do for a variety of reasons. You know, the age, the injury history, the not knowing if he wants to be in Portland long term. So you're giving all that stuff up for a rental like a Raptors Kawhi situation. Except that the Raptors were kind of a ready made title contender supporting cast, just needing a star and so they were able to take that swing. I don't think the Blazers are in that position where if they just added Giannis to this team they would be a contender. And I think if you're going to trade for Giannis, you have to think that you're in that position and I don't think that they are. I think him and Danny as far as like their skill set wise is a little bit redundant. I think that the Blazers biggest problem this year is that they don't have anybody on the team that can shoot and that's not one of Giannis's strengths. So for me personally, I, I, this is just my own opinion. I don't think it's a good idea. But I could see them going for it just to make a splash. But I also think to your point, Alex, the Bucks picks becoming slightly less valuable to the Bucks with these new rules. If they go through as they're currently being reported, that could be a situation where it maybe saves them from themselves a little bit.

Alex Spears (62:49)

But think about this, Sean. You could have Giannis and Damian Lillard on the same team.

Sean Hyken (62:54)

Oh, would be pretty, it would be pretty. I mean I've always thought that those two would fit fairly well together. It's a shame we've never gotten to see that that actually play out.

Alex Spears (63:04)

Never seen it play out. Let's talk about the backcourt. Let's talk about the backcourt. Dame spoke at exit interviews and said he's already playing in five on five runs. Looking at the backcourt next season, they'll have Damon Drew along with Shaden and Scoot. I'm interested in what you think about this backcourt going into next season. Shaden already wasn't thrilled with his minutes in the playoffs and minutes are going to be even tougher if they're all healthy next season. Do you think all four will still be on this team in October?

Sean Hyken (63:37)

No, I don't I don't know who I mean, obviously. So Dame. Dame is probably the safest person in the entire organization. Because he has a no train clause.

Ben Gulliver (63:48)

Yeah.

Sean Hyken (63:48)

And only because he has a no trade clause. Like, I absolutely think that if he didn't have a no trade clause, Tom Dundon might look at it and be like, why are we paying $14 million a year to somebody who is 36 coming off a torn Achilles? Like, I don't, I don't think he really cares about, you know, somebody being a franchise legend or whatever. So Dame, Dame is obviously going to be around

Andrew (64:07)

Drew.

Sean Hyken (64:09)

I think obviously, like age wise, you, you know, you. He's not going to be like a long, long term part of the core. But you know, he, you saw this year, especially in the playoffs, how valuable, I mean they, he basically when he was healthy, he missed a couple months with that calf injury in November, December, January. But when he did play, he pretty much brought exactly what they traded for him hoping that he would bring. In terms of, you know, they wanted like the veteran leadership, but they also wanted just like, you know, what he brought defensively and you know, his, his shooting abilities. One of the few guys on the team is actually a decent three point shooter. You know, he can kind of calm them down from a playmaking standpoint, especially while Scoot was, you know, out for most of the season with the, with the hamstring injury. So Drew was fantastic this, this year and I think they would love to bring him back. You know, I just, you know, I think that the three guys on the team that are like the no doubt outside, outside of date, but like, like, but like the three guys I think that are like no doubt like going to be here for the long term are Donovan Kling and Denny Avdia and Tumani Kamara. And outside of those, I think everything is kind of on the table as far as trades now, as far as the, the younger guards. Scoot, obviously this is just a brutal year for him in terms of, you know, everybody thought he was going to have a breakout this year. And then the week before training camp, he was playing in a pickup game and tore his hamstring and missed the first 50 games of the season kind of up and down during the 30 games that he played this season. I think why I, he didn't have a very good last couple of games in the playoff series. But I think what you saw from him in the first few games of that series is enough for me to feel like that's somebody you should still at least you Know, take another, you know, take another year and like, play it out and see if he can have a fully healthy off season and build on that. Like, I think there's a lot still there with Scoot and you're seeing, you know, him make some, you know, improvements, especially as his role has changed. Right. He's playing off Balmore. You know, I'm interested to see how he looks next to Dame. I think there's still something there worth exploring. Shaden, I mean, he only played six minutes in the last game of the spurs series. And I asked Thiago afterwards about why that was after the game in San Antonio on Tuesday and Thiago gave an answer to that, did not mention Shaden, and talked about how he liked the energy that City Sissoka was bringing and said he was going to focus on the positive. So that, I mean, that kind of should tell you everything you need to know. And then obviously Shaden's answer today about, you know, he said he was frustrated by the lack of minutes. I, I mean, Shaden, Shaden's always been such an interesting player and prospect because he's the most talented. I think he's the most talented player on this entire roster. I thought that since they drafted him four years ago. But, you know, it's, it just, you know, it, it. And some of it has been injuries. He missed six weeks at the end of the season this year with the calf injury. He, his second year was pretty much a lost year because he had the core muscle injury and he had the surgery and he missed a bunch of time with that. But, you know, last year when they went on that run in the second half of the season, the day that that run started, Chauncey pulled him from the starting lineup and told us on the record that that was because he didn't like the effort he was giving defensively. And so that's so like this kind of stuff, like the, the, the motor stuff and the consistency stuff and the, you know, does he always give effort on both ends? Stuff like this has been there since the entire, you know, since. For his entire career, as talented as he is. And, you know, I think there's a reason that he hasn't really made the leap into being an all star in the way that, you know, he has the talent to be. So, you know, if there's one of those guys that I think I could point to and say there's a better chance than the others that maybe he's not a long term piece of this thing at this point, I think it would be him.

Alex Spears (68:10)

They go check out Sean Hyken at the Rose Garden Report Sean, thanks so much for coming on.

Sean Hyken (68:15)

Thanks for having me guys. Always a pleasure.

Andrew (68:34)

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Sean Hyken (68:37)

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