Karl-Anthony Towns traded to the Knicks | Kawhi Injury

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily – September 28, 2024

Hosted by Dave DeFore and Mo Takil

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Major Trade: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to the New York Knicks

Timestamp: 02:30 – 08:50

In a shocking development that has sent ripples through the NBA, Karl-Anthony Towns has been traded from the Minnesota Timberwolves to the New York Knicks. This blockbuster move marks one of the most significant trades of the season, reshaping the landscape for both teams involved.

Trade Details:

• Knicks Receive:

  • Karl-Anthony Towns: Recognized as one of the Timberwolves' best players, Towns brings exceptional scoring, passing, and defensive capabilities to the Knicks.
  • Additional Assets: Daquan Jeffries and protected draft picks are sent to Charlotte to balance the salary cap.

• Timberwolves Receive:

  • Julius Randle: A solid scorer who could help the Timberwolves manage scoring loads during the playoffs.
  • Dante DiVincenzo: A versatile guard known for his shooting and defense.
  • Protected Draft Pick: A first-round pick that remains protected for three years before converting into a second-round pick.

Host Insights:

• Dave DeFore emphasized the strategic advantage for the Knicks, stating, “Carl Anthony Towns is arguably their best player right now. They have a number one and another number one.”
• Mo Takil added, “This is a very worrying sign for Timberwolf fans. It feels like a money-driven move that could hinder the team’s competitive edge.”

Impact on the Knicks:

• Offensive Synergy: Towns’ ability to stretch the floor and facilitate the pick-and-roll with Jalen Brunson is seen as a natural fit, enhancing the Knicks' offensive arsenal.
• Defensive Strength: Towns has proven defensively, capable of guarding top-tier players like Nikola Jokic, which is crucial for the Knicks under Coach Tom Thibodeau.

Impact on the Timberwolves:

• Guard Shortage: While DiVincenzo adds depth, concerns remain about Julius Randle's fit within the Timberwolves' system, potentially disrupting floor spacing and offensive efficiency.
• Future Uncertainty: The trade’s long-term implications are questioned, with fears it could represent a step back for the Timberwolves.

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Derrick Rose Retirement and Hall of Fame Debate

Timestamp: 12:27 – 15:00

In a poignant turn of events, Derrick Rose has announced his retirement from professional basketball, concluding an illustrious yet injury-marred career.

Host Discussion:

• Dave DeFore highlighted Rose's achievements: “Rookie of the Year, MVP, youngest MVP ever, and three-time All-Star.”
• Mo Takil contested his Hall of Fame credentials, arguing, “His career trajectory took a massive turn with injuries. It’s just not a Hall of Famer.”

Key Points:

• Achievements vs. Longevity: While Rose's early career was decorated, his inability to maintain that peak due to injuries diminishes his Hall of Fame prospects.
• Hall of Fame Criteria: The discussion touched on whether the NBA should reassess its standards for Hall of Fame induction, balancing peak performance against career longevity and impact.

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Injury Updates: Grizzlies and Spurs Struggle with Key Players

Timestamp: 15:00 – 19:42

Injury woes continue to plague the Memphis Grizzlies and San Antonio Spurs, raising concerns about their season prospects.

Memphis Grizzlies:

• Vince Williams Jr.: Sidelined for at least four weeks with a stress reaction in his left tibia.
• Gigi Jackson: Out with a foot injury, further depleting the Grizzlies' wing depth.

San Antonio Spurs:

• Devin Vassell: Undergoing recovery from foot surgery, expected to miss until at least November 1st. His absence impacts the Spurs' guard rotation and chemistry, especially with Chris Paul’s integration into the team.

Host Insights:

• Mo Takil expressed concern for the Grizzlies, stating, “They just lost two key contributors early in the season, making a rough start inevitable.”
• Dave DeFore questioned the Spurs' ability to adjust, mentioning, “How much do you worry about him not being able to do camp and preseason to iron out some of the bugs?”

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Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Injury: Season Uncertainty Looms

Timestamp: 20:42 – 25:42

The Los Angeles Clippers face a significant setback as Kawhi Leonard undergoes knee surgery, jeopardizing his availability for the start of the season.

Details:

• Procedure: Leonard had knee surgery in May and is still dealing with swelling.
• Impact: His absence may extend into the first month of the season, affecting the Clippers' performance and rotation.

Host Discussion:

• Dave DeFore questioned the Clippers’ preparedness, “If he's not out there healthy to start the season, how much is that going to hurt the Clippers?”
• Mo Takil speculated on team adjustments, “This just means James Harden gets to go back to Houston... It might be time to see what Castle the rookie can do.”

Implications:

• Team Dynamics: Without Leonard, the Clippers may rely more heavily on James Harden, altering offensive strategies and increasing Harden's usage rate.
• Future Prospects: Concerns were raised about the Clippers' lack of draft control until 2030, limiting their ability to rebuild or reload effectively.

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Media Day Highlights: Russell Westbrook and Jason Tatum

Timestamp: 25:45 – 32:55

During recent media days, significant comments were made regarding key players, sparking debate among the hosts.

Russell Westbrook’s Defensive Role:

• Michael Malone of the Denver Nuggets mentioned expecting Westbrook to play crucial defensive roles in closing lineups.
• Mo Takil was skeptical, stating, “Russ is not a good defender. He gambles a ton. That’s overrated.”
• Dave DeFore questioned the strategy, “Is Michael Malone just gassing a guy up? Russ is not a guy you play one-on-one defensively.”

Jason Tatum’s Shooting Form:

• Dave DeFore criticized the Celtics for focusing on Tatum’s shooting mechanics, suggesting, “When Jason Tatum's jumper isn't falling, I want Jason Tatum to go be Jason Tatum. Don’t worry about spending all these hours in the gym.”
• Mo Takil defended Tatum's maturity, “He has shown the maturity over the past two seasons. I’m confident he’s going to incorporate his offense.”

Host Insights:

• Mo Takil appreciated Tatum’s ability to adapt, emphasizing his defensive efforts and mature gameplay.
• Dave DeFore highlighted the importance of Tatum’s playmaking, stating, “Jason Tatum could easily be a triple-double guy in the league.”

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Fun Segment: Jalen Brown’s Shoe Launch

Timestamp: 32:36 – 33:02

In a lighter moment, the hosts discussed Jalen Brown’s new shoe launch, adding humor to the intense basketball discussions.

Dave DeFore shared his skepticism, “I need a bigger sample size of no injuries, no ACLs being blown... I’m not going to go play basketball in Jalen Brown's shoes.”

Mo Takil laughed along, highlighting the playful banter between the hosts.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: 33:12 – End

As the episode wrapped up, the hosts reflected on the discussed topics and teased future content.

• Mo Takil expressed interest in hearing perspectives from key players like Ja Morant, pondering his mindset for the upcoming season.
• Dave DeFore emphasized the importance of team strategies and player roles, particularly for teams like the Milwaukee Bucks under Doc Rivers.

Closing Remarks:

• The hosts encouraged listeners to subscribe and stay tuned for upcoming episodes, promising more in-depth analysis and engaging discussions on future NBA developments.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dave DeFore (04:25): “Carl Anthony Towns is arguably their best player right now. They have a number one and another number one.”
• Mo Takil (06:56): “Boston's on one tier, they're still number one, but I think the Knicks are making it very clear that they are on a tier of their own at number two.”
• Mo Takil (12:27): “The NBA has everybody in the hall of Fame. He won an MVP, so he's going to get, probably get in the hall of Fame.”
• Mo Takil (20:57): “Kawhi is not healthy. It’s a scary situation for the Clippers.”
• Mo Takil (27:33): “Russ is not a good defender. He gambles a ton. That’s overrated.”

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This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily provided listeners with a comprehensive analysis of major trades, player retirements, injury updates, and key insights from recent media days. Hosts Dave DeFore and Mo Takil delivered engaging and thoughtful commentary, enriched with expert opinions and memorable quotes, ensuring a valuable listening experience for NBA enthusiasts.

Transcript

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[Mo Takil]

Hello.

[Dave DeFore]

And welcome back to the Athletic MBA Show. I'm Dave DeFore here with Motakil. This is an emergency addendum. Yes, I understand you were tuning in to the podcast and you think we're going to talk about Kawhi Leonard, but we're going to get there. This is something we had to record right after because there's Been a trade mo. Carl Anthony Towns is now a New York Knick. This is a massive trade.

[Mo Takil]

It's a huge trade. Like, I, I'm. Let me put it you this way. I never thought this would actually happen. I thought it'd be one of those trades we always talk about, like, oh, the Knicks and Towns and all the stuff and all the words, and I never thought it would actually happen. Yeah, this is a huge trade for the Knicks.

[Dave DeFore]

Let's go through the particulars real quick. The. The Knicks get Carl Anthony Towns. I mean, this is obviously the, the biggest piece involved in this trade. Minnesota Timberwolves receive Julius Randle and Dante DiVincenzo. They also get a first round pick from the New York Knicks and it is protected for the first three years and then turns into a second. I don't have those particulars in front of me. The Knicks are also going to send salary, including Daquan Jeffries and some draft picks to Charlotte to make the money work out. But the biggest pieces are Carl Anthony Towns goes to the Knicks. Julius Randle and Dante DiVincenzo go to the Timberwolves. Let's start with the Carl Anthony Towns part of this. And for the Knicks, number one, they break up the Villanova group before it even gets started. They send Stephen Chen. But we, we were curious the other day, would they make a move before training camp, you know, before preseason with the Mitchell Robinson injury? And I mean, this is, this is not just making a move to, to stem the tide, you know, while Mitchell Robinson gets help.

[Mo Takil]

Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave. We were talking about Goga.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes.

[Mo Takil]

You know, for them, like, let me just put it to you this way, respectfully, I'm not, not a shot at him. But we were talking about that level of player.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Mo Takil]

Versus what they actually got.

[Dave DeFore]

And they get a guy who, I mean, Carl Anthony Towns is arguably their best player right now. They have a number one and another number one. They have a 1A 1B situation now, which is something that we've talked about them needing. We thought Julius Randle could sort of take on some scoring load if they get to the playoffs for, for Jalen Brunson, obviously Carl Anthony Towns, you just see the, the natural fit, the pick and roll fit with him and Jalen Brunson. Defensively, what we saw from Carl Anthony Towns, I think in the playoffs, the way he guarded Jokic, I mean, he, he is capable of being a solid defender. And then he's reunited with Tom Thibodeau, which to me, that actually speaks volumes to what he thinks about Carl Anthony Towns as a player. I don't think they make this move if Tom Thibodeau isn't fully on board.

[Mo Takil]

Absolutely not. And I was surprised by that. That was one of the things I always thought was kind of like under discussed was like, I thought the relationship between the two of them was not very good, but it seems it's good enough for, for, for this situation where Tiz was saying like, yeah, go get him. And I think part of it too, though, is I think this is a cleaner fit for the Knicks than Randle. Right. I think it's a, a cleaner, easier plug and play. He stretches the floor much more than Randle. I, I think the opportunities for the rest of the team is going to be a little bit more better spread out with Cat. Like, I, I think this was just a better fit for them. Yeah, Randall. And I think it's kind of obvious.

[Dave DeFore]

With that he's a better player. And, and let's not forget Carl Anthony Towns is an excellent passer. So they're going to have tools in their offensive arsenal that they were going to be missing out on without Mitchell Robinson and without Isaiah Hartenstein. Now they can, they can put some of that stuff back in. I mean, I just think what a great move for the Knicks.

[Mo Takil]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a good move. I mean, listen, they were loaded at the wing, so losing Divincenzo is not something that really kills them.

[Dave DeFore]

We kept saying, who's gonna, who's coming off the bench? Who's, who's gonna close? And now, like, there's clarity, you know?

[Mo Takil]

So I think they kind of go into camp with a nice little clean sort of idea of what the rotation looks like. And then when they get Robinson back, you know, they're really kind of set nicely in terms of bigs, I think. Let me just be put it out there right now, like, Boston's on one tier, they're still number one, but I think the Knicks are making it very clear that they are on a tier of their own at number two, and then it's the other teams. I think that's really how good of a trade this is. I guess we can argue Philly could be there with the Knicks, depending on health, but it's always a question of health with, with the Sixers. But for the Knicks, they're right there, and I think that's really a big swing for them. And I love it.

[Dave DeFore]

I love it. I, I, I love this trade for the Knicks. I do not love it for the Minnesota Timberwolves, Mo, they are taking a big step back in my opinion. And I like Dante DiVincenzo and I like Julius Randle as a player as well. I think DiVincenzo can be a good rotation piece for them. They, they're a little light in guards. I mean, you know, we, we've talked a lot about, you know, Mike Conley being older and they're going to be relying on Rob Dillingham maybe being able to contribute right away. DiVincenzo, that's a big help for them and also positive. Plus shooter, plus defender. Just there's a lot of ways in which he fits a good basketball team. The Junius Randle fit, on the other hand, is more awkward. He's going to occupy some spaces that you just don't want, want occupied. You know, we've talked a lot about how Carl Anthony town space in the floor allowed Gobert to actually roam the paint a little bit to set screens, you know, in the block, come up, be involved in the pick and roll. Well, now you got to figure out, you know, a lower volume three point shooter in Julius Randle. How does he fit in a system that's already is, it's, it's tight on space.

[Mo Takil]

It's even worse than that, Dave, because he likes to operate mostly out of the elbow and, and, and, and a little bit along that area and there's. That just clogs up driving lanes for Ant on top of just the spacing between him and Gobert. Like I'm going to be honest, I think this is just a very worrying sign for Timberwolf fans in just like. Is this a money thing? It feels like it, you know, this, this feels like the type of stuff where you, you make this move. If the Wolves came back the way just without making a move, I still would have had them as top four in the West. Right. And as a contender to get to the conference final, I had him second.

[Dave DeFore]

Mo they, they beat the defending champs and the best player in the world last year. And you know, I, I said this thing to, and I said it on the podcast. I said it to you. We talked about this a lot. I'm getting a little hot right now because I'm a little disappointed.

[Mo Takil]

Glasses came off. Just so you know, we understand how, how, how mad he is.

[Dave DeFore]

I said Timberwolves Nuggets was the finals for me. I felt like it was like clearly that team had been built to, to try to beat the Nuggets. The Nuggets were the best team in the world in my opinion. Best player in the world. But apparently it was their Finals too. And that just bums me out so much.

[Mo Takil]

I just think it's, I just think the way they, this whole process and the thinking in which they did it to get to it is really the thing I have questions about, you know, and I, I'm concerned with the way they've. If it's a money thing, this is just, this is only going to get worse. Right. It means like we're never putting in a good team. And if it's a Glenn Taylor thing, then yo, gotta go give it to a rod and Mark Lazari and move on. Like, this is not this team was fun enough that we deserve to have them make at least another run at it. And I think that's kind of the concerning. Like the first round pick they're getting is a fake first round pick. You know, it's lottery protected for the next three years and then it becomes two seconds. So really it's two seconds. Three year, four years from now. It's, you know, Randall's fine.

[Dave DeFore]

I like inspiring deal, by the way.

[Mo Takil]

Yeah. So it's, it's getting off his books. Like it won't shock me if Randall gets moved again and maybe we'll say later like, oh, wow, this Randall trade's great. They got to look at all that stuff they got back. But like, I'm not really looking at this team and feeling very confident in what they're doing. I mean this is, this is a step back in the way, in the way the west is. Is it an open opportunity for other teams?

[Dave DeFore]

Anything on Daquan Jeffries to Charlotte? No. Okay, then we're going to go to the regular pod. Thank you guys for listening and as always, enjoy.

[Mo Takil]

Foreign.

[Dave DeFore]

Welcome back to the Athletic NBA Show. I'm Dave DeFore here with Motakil. Coming up, Derrick Rose retiring. We've got a few injuries and Mo and I look ahead to all of the things that we can't wait to see next week at media day. Mo, big news to start the top and then we're going to catch up on some news. We're coming around into training camp media days. We've already had a couple of media days this week for the teams that are going to be traveling overseas for their preseason games. But the big news that just hit this week, Derrick Rose, former mvp, Chicago Bulls legend, retiring. He is no longer going to play for the Memphis Grizzlies, so his career is done. I'm going to ask you, Mo, because it seems to be a Big debate right now. Is he a Hall of Famer?

[Mo Takil]

No, sorry. He's not. Like I get first off. Yes. Because the NBA has everybody in the hall of Fame. He won an mvp, so he's going to get, probably get in the hall of Fame. But should he be a Hall of Famer?

[Dave DeFore]

No.

[Mo Takil]

Like maybe we should just start building higher standards for our MVP or whatnot. But like I just think the, the, the love for what we have for him as a basketball player and you know the stuff he did on the court and things like that, like it was great but it was short lived man. Like it's not like he ever played in the finals. I don't remember if he's ever been in the conference finals. I, you know, the, the obviously his career trajectory took a massive turn with, with the knee injury. Playing in a game up a ton late in the fourth quarter. I, I'm curious who the coach is. I'll just leave that alone. But the, I think you know you have that stuff but like it's just, it's just not a Hall of Famer. Well, he was amazing. He would had a chance.

[Dave DeFore]

But I'll put it to you like this Rookie of the year. That's great. Won an mvp. Youngest MVP ever. All NBA that same season was all rookie. He was a three time all star. That's where the accolades stop. And again injuries derailed his career. But it's the hall of Fame, it's not the hall of man. He would have been amazing.

[Mo Takil]

Should we have an almost hall of Fame?

[Dave DeFore]

Well, I mean if, if that's the case, like if he was the guy who he was that MVP season for, you know, another seven or eight years, then certainly yeah, he was on that trajectory. But you know I, to me that's. He just doesn't have a case career. 17 point a game scorer, you know, not extremely efficient. Not, not like a great table setter, not a great rebounder. I mean it's not like the other thing too though.

[Mo Takil]

It's not like his game evolved with the injury. Right. He got injured and then he didn't. He, he's gonna change his game. He was just trying to be the same player, just slightly physically able to be that player. Like I don't again, like that's just not something that we should look at and go like okay, that's hall of Fame. The fact there's even questions about it. It's really more a sign of like we really do let everybody into the hall of Fame. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean and you know, hopefully they they, they tighten that up as we go forward.

[Mo Takil]

I don't even know what's the. I don't even know the parameters. I don't know.

[Dave DeFore]

Kind of the most famous at this point. Right. Like, so the hall of Fame moniker is sort of fitting now, but it used to be great.

[Mo Takil]

But Dave, it goes another way too. I don't know who's on the board. I don't know how they make these selections. I don't know who votes it and who. Like, it's. It's. I'm kind of. It's a shadow figure that decides, you know, like, I don't know, like, what is it? Like, I'm very curious along those lines too.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, so we, we got some injury news and unfortunate news, especially for our friend Keith Parish. The Grizzlies have another injury on the wing, which is the one place where they desperately need somebody to be able to fill that starting spot. Vince Williams Jr. Out at least four weeks with a stress reaction in the left tibia. Gigi Jackson, who's the other guy that was going to be on the wing for them, he's out with the foot injury already. Mo, look, we, we have high hopes for the Grizzlies this year. John Morant's going to be back. Desmond Bain, you know, being this new version of himself who is just, I mean, clear cut, like number two level player, Jaren Jackson. I mean, we just expected them to be healthy and come out of the gate like gangbusters and they just lost two key contributors and at least the first month of the season.

[Mo Takil]

Yeah, it's brutal in the sense of also, like, these were two guys who benefited so much from this terrible season they had last year, getting so many major minutes that they were able to kind of work to develop those guys more and, and put them in a position where they would be key pieces this year when they're supposed to be pretty good. So I mean, like, it's brutal just in that pure sense of like, damn, man, like, we can't catch a break already. Like, we're actually. Unfortunately, they caught breaks. We can't avoid the injury bug. Like, we can't kind of start the season at least fresh and healthy. I think it's a. The first month of the season. It's going to be interesting. I don't think it's a massive deal or whatnot. It maybe hurts their over under a little bit for win totals, but I think it's kind of a situation where I think they could survive that, you know, with assuming those guys come back and fully healthy and they don't sustain anymore, but it'll be a rough start.

[Dave DeFore]

And then another wing with injury issues. We've been high on what San Antonio did this summer, you know, bringing in Chris Paul. We love Harrison Barnes, and part of that was because I thought it would make Devin Bissell's role so much more clear, make his job so much easier. Well, he had surgery at the end of last year on a stress reaction in his third metatarsal head in his right foot. Still dealing with issues from that. So he's going to be out until at least November 1st. He's doing non contact drills. Mo, this is not, it's not that long and this is not like it's Victor Wimanyama. So you know, it, we don't, I don't expect it to hurt the spurs all that much, but I do wonder when you have a guy like Vsell who's really going to be trying to find a new role given that he's not going to have the ball in his hands as much. How much do you worry about him not being able to do camp and preseason to kind of iron out some of the bugs that that might be in his game as he's trying to figure out how he's going to play out there with those new guys?

[Mo Takil]

It's a huge blow in terms of just building chemistry and time together and working the flow into it and understanding your role in the offense and the way it's going to fit now with Chris Paul kind of handling the ball. And it hurts the chemistry that Paul can develop with him and understanding where he likes the ball and where he coming off the right or the left or all the small details and things like that. Or there's no question it hurts, right? Like, it's, it's not like I'm a rocket scientist coming up with that. It's, it's, it's a big blow for them in essence. But I'm kind of fascinated in the sense of like, all right, well, it's time to see what Castle the rookie can do then. You know, it's, it's, it's going to be one of those things where, all right, next man up is, is going to be Castle and he's got to really kind of step up for them and show, you know, why he got picked so high at 4. And I think it'll be an interesting opportunity for him to really kind of get early reps that maybe he wasn't expected to get right off the bat. And who knows, man, maybe this first strike gold right off the bat with him.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I was, I was hopeful that he was going to get early minutes next to Chris Paul, but I mean with his size and length, he probably can guard a little bit on the wing. I mean, it's just, I don't know, I don't think this is going to slow the spurs down all that much. But I do worry about Vestel being able to catch up.

[Mo Takil]

Let me put it to this way, in terms of being worried of it slowing the spurs down. I mean, the train wasn't going that fast. Like, it's not a, you know, it's not like this is a team that we thought like, oh, championship or playoff aspirations. Right. Like really, if it's a 10 win improvement, it's a great year.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow. 10th seed aspirations. Maybe, you know, at least, I mean, you're on the inside of the microphone for sure.

[Mo Takil]

You're saying that not even confidently. 10 seed aspiration. Maybe, possibly, maybe in the world. You know, it's, it's, it's hard in that sense, but it's like, you know, like, like that's their ceiling, right? The ten seed. And like that would be an, they become, they make the playing tournament. Even if they got blown out by a thousand in that game, that's a huge jump for them. That's a huge win in terms of the way the Western Conference is and, and, and how deep it is. It's a, it's a great feather in their cap. I just don't think that's, that's a realistic expectation for them.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, our last piece of injury news, I'm actually going to wrap into media day because I'm very curious how the Clippers are going to handle the questioning next week. Kawhi Leonard underwent a procedure on his knee in May. Mo. Did you know that?

[Mo Takil]

Nope.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, that was news to all of us. And apparently he's still dealing with some swelling in that knee. The goal for them, they say, is to have him 100% so that, you know, he can have a great season. Mo, I don't know yet. And we don't know yet, I should say, if he's going to be ready to start the season, if he's going to be able to play in any preseason games, if he's going to miss a month to start the season because the Clippers operate like some sort of clandestine agency when it comes to player injuries. But this is significant news. When we talked about their over under, we, we discussed the bet being against Kawhi Leonard being healthy. I Think they're at forty and a half games. If, if he's not out there healthy to start the season. If he's not healthy, he's not going to play. We know that. If he's not out there to start the season and he misses the first month, I mean, how much is that gonna, gonna hurt the Clippers? Do you feel like they've got enough that they can, you know, keep the boat floating until he's ready to go?

[Mo Takil]

I mean, for starters, I think it's definitely frustrating to start the season again with, with okay. Kawhi is not, not healthy. Like going into a training camp without healthy. Kawhi is a bit like, okay, first off, we've been here before, you know, and it's a scary situation for the Clippers in terms of how that kind of tends to linger longer now. I, I think they obviously hope that it doesn't and that this being precautious now will allow them to bring him back and he'll be ready to go and put these, this stuff behind him. I, I don't anticipate him playing the start of the season, you know, I don't anticipate him being available maybe at least the first couple of weeks. I think the, the thing that was interesting when he pulled out of the Olympics, I thought he pulled out of the Olympics more because he was afraid of playing time and he wasn't going to get a lot, but now it's clearly an injury and, and so on. So he's been dealing with it for quite a bit, like, problematic now. As for. As for the team and the rest of the guys, they have like, man, this just means James Harden gets to go back to Houston. James Harden, man, like, this is going to be, you know, if I'm James, I'm licking my lips, man, I'm going to turn back the clock. I'm going to let everybody know I'm going to drop, you know, 35 and 10. You know, I'm going to be diamond guys up. I'm going to be scoring like the ball's going to be in his hands, you know, so much. Like his usage rate was already going to go up with Paul George gone. But if Kawhi is not even going to be healthy to start the season, it's going to go sky high. I think we're looking at like a 30% usage for him. I think it'll be interesting there. And I think with some of the guys, everyone, they have guys that kind of work in a James Harden spreaded offense, you know, With Zoo Roll into the rim, they're going to be able to spread the floor a little bit. Like it will be pretty interesting to see how they handle it long term. I think they'd suffer with a Kawhi not being around. But if it's just like, hey, we just need to survive three weeks, a month, you know, like, I think they might be able to do it.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. And they signed Terrence man to a three year extension. We got that news today right before we went to record. So I mean, you know, nice little contract, team friendly deal. As Mo pointed out in our pre show, I, I do want to talk just a little bit about the Clippers and their options because they're, they're a bit stuck in the path that they're in, at least for the next couple seasons. It's bleak when you look at their draft situation for the next five, six years. I mean, obviously they owe a bunch of picks in the. From the Paul George trademark. Oklahoma City owns their first round pick in 2025. So when you start looking at this team and you say, oh, if Kawhi's not healthy, well, maybe they, you know, try to move hard and then maybe it's time to start a rebuild. There's no rebuild for this team. I mean they just, they do not control their first round draft pick until 2030.

[Mo Takil]

So I would, I would also say moving into a new building. I don't think Steve Ballmer has any appetite for a rebuild. He wants to get that train on the tracks right away and get that going. And it's going to be pretty interesting to see how do they evolve over the next few years, you know, in terms of the, the rebuild and in terms of reloading, we should say in terms of finding the talent and it not being a rebuild but trying to be a reload and it'll be interesting. But again, a key part of that too comes down to Kawhi's help. Man, they have no, they have no appetite, desire or reason to tank. Right. So for them it's going to be, you know, they got to go put out their best team out there and put the best, best product they can on the floor to try to win games.

[Dave DeFore]

We already had some, some media days this week. Mo, have you heard anything? Just wild. Crazy.

[Mo Takil]

Yeah. So Michael Malone said about Russell Westbrook like he's probably, he's going to be in the closing lineups. I'm paraphrasing a lot of this because I don't have the quote right in front of me, but he's going to they to expect Russell Westbrook to close games and that a big under discussed thing about Russell Westbrook is his defense and that he often guards the other team's best players. And I mean you know it's funny, it was tweeted out by Harrison Wi and then the, the comments afterwards, Dave were like, yeah, Russ is an underrated defender. He's a demon on defense. All these I, I get bored guys and I go through some of these things and just curious and I, I see these things and it just leads me to wonder like what did I miss? Like what, what are we talking about? What are you serious? Like what are we. I'm still broken, Dave. This was a few days ago. I'm still broken by it because I don't understand the concept. Russ is not a good defender. Russ is not a guy you play one on one defensively like and you think you have the advantage. Yes, he gambles a ton. He will get steals on the weak side and things like that. That's overrated as a defender for starters. And I think the other aspect of it too, like you think about it this way, looking at it in terms of this team, they might have to put him in the closing lineup because they just don't have enough talent. But that's also a non shooter out there unless he's going to just sit in the corner and that's a team that's hurting for three point shooting. Like I am just very curious what Michael Malone thinks is going to happen. And I'm just now just sitting back going like, okay, I want Russ guarding Anthony Edwards in the fourth quarter of games. Otherwise Michael Malone's a liar. That might have been a bit extreme.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean is this Michael Malone just gassing a guy up? Because again I, I, I've had this conversation about Christian Brown for the last few months since KCP left. Christian Brown is betting like Calvin Booth is betting that Christian Brown and his size is going to be able to hold up against guys like Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards is a problem in Western Conference. You got to have a big guard that can, that can guard him. Caruso in Oklahoma City, that one of the big calculus to getting him in there beyond just that he's a great player. He can guard Anthony Edwards straight up. Russell Westbrook, I don't, I don't think he could do that. And, and also doesn't this kind of fly in the face of the idea that Christian Brown is your KCP replacement?

[Mo Takil]

Oh, for sure. But it's like I just again, all of this Stuff. It's. Yes. First off, and we should say this, and I'm glad you brought it up, Dave. Like, yes, it's him gassing up his guy. There's also just like a lot of stuff in media day is said. A lot of things are said on media day that also. I don't know how much the other person, the person saying it actually believes. And some of it is stuff that has to be just kind of said or whatnot. Right. Like, there's a whole bunch of things that go into it, but just the concept of Russell Westbrook in your closing lineup. Okay. Defensively in your backcourt, Jamal Murray and Russell Westbrook as your backcourt. Good luck on defense. Yeah, right. Like, and then you just look in the fact that you're going to have Aaron Gordon out there, I'm assuming. Okay, so him and Russ out there, not exactly great shooting. You know, we'll see what we get from Christian Brown or if it's Strother or, or, or who else. They use MPJ and whatnot and see where they kind of fall in the three point shooting department. You know, like, you're, you're really hurting the spacing just on that end. So, like, if he's really serious about this being kind of part of their closing lineup, like, it's going to be tough, man. I would recommend they not play a lot of close games.

[Dave DeFore]

For me, it. It's out of Boston Celtics camp and everybody's talking about Jason Tatum's new shooting form, which is smoother than his old one, but it's the same form. And you know, he famously hasn't hit a jump shot since, like, you know, the Finals, I guess. And he really didn't shoot well in the playoffs at all, Mo. He's got some mechanical issues. This is not the place for that because it's kind of just boring to dig into the mechanics of it. But to me, it's being. It's focusing on the wrong thing. When Jason Tatum's jumper isn't falling, I want Jason Tatum to go be Jason Tatum. Don't worry about spending all these hours in the gym. You are huge. You've got a good handle, you got a great body and you can finish. Take it to the rack. Jason Tatum, just play big. That's what I want, I think.

[Mo Takil]

But I think we got some of that last year. I think we did.

[Dave DeFore]

That's it. Don't focus on that jumper.

[Mo Takil]

I think it's going to be more. I think there's going to be more of that, like, to his Credit maturity wise. I think he understands when his jumper isn't falling, how to attack and how to incorporate his offense. And even the, the, another. The next step, maturity level is like when the jumper isn't falling, his defense isn't trapping. Like, I want to give the kid a lot of credit. Like, he's done a phenomenal job in handling all of these things, you know, and I thought he was unfairly maligned in the playoffs where even though he wasn't shooting well, I still thought he was playing well in a lot of these games. And I thought, like, it was a little bit unfair the way he was getting maligned with all the stuff that's. That was put out there. So I think it's interesting. But like, yeah, I, I kind of. With you, Dave, I hope he doesn't focus so much on it. And I'm confident and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not going to because he has shown the maturity over the past two seasons. I'd say yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

One of the biggest difference for me for the Celtics team last year was that they weren't as susceptible to run outs after a bad offensive possession. Like, if Jason Tatum, you know, three years ago, Jason Tatum would get stripped and expect a call and not get it. He'd flail around, he'd look at the referee and meanwhile the other team, it's a track race to the other end. I mean, I think that that was huge. This team is so good and he is their best player. And so, yeah, I just like to see him just continue to do that playmaking thing he was doing in the playoffs. It was excellent. It worked great for them. I mean, we talked about this right after the, the Finals. Like, Jason Tatum could easily be a triple double guy in the league. Like, he could easily do that. He's got all of the tools for that. The, the playmaking. Because he's a threat to score, especially in the post, driving to the basket. I, I just think the stuff is there.

[Mo Takil]

So, yeah, you're more, you're more. You're more high on his triple double chances than my. Me just to. Because it's just the assist. It's just. I don't think he'll do. I don't think he'll get up to 10 assists in that. In that range. But, Dave, I think you buried the lead in the Boston Celtics media day. I got to know, are you going to be buying Jalen Brown's shoes on October 22nd?

[Dave DeFore]

You know what I appreciate he was asked why? He started his own shoe and he just said, ah, I was bored. If it fails, who cares? Now that, that's a great, that's a great attitude to have about life. I've got the money, why not? I'll do it.

[Mo Takil]

You remember the last guys who started their own shoes?

[Dave DeFore]

Well, yeah, listen, you. I'm not gonna go play basketball in Jalen Brown's shoes. I'll say that.

[Mo Takil]

B, triple Bs.

[Dave DeFore]

I need a bigger. Yeah, I need a large sample size of no injuries, no, you know, no ACLs being blown. And, and then maybe I'll try them out.

[Mo Takil]

Just.

[Dave DeFore]

All right, finally. And this one, this one's just a little bit of fun. Who do you want to hear from the most next week? Mo? Who are you just itching to hear from?

[Mo Takil]

I, I gotta, I just gotta ask you this question, Dave. It's important times now, man. Where's Ja? Where's Ja? Has anybody seen Ja? Like, I want, I want more from Ja. Jokes aside, I actually, I would love to hear and see what Ja's perspective is coming into the season. Like, you go back three years ago, two and a half years ago, it's going to be the face of the league. He's going to, you know, his signature shoes, dropping all that stuff. The team is on the rise, a young up and cominging team. And then the bottom just falls out completely from underneath them. You know, it's some of it's his own doing, you know, in the way he's kind of responded. Anthony Edwards has come on and has kind of taken that, that shine. Shay Gilgis Alexander has come and has taken basically Jaws stance. Even as a skinny, you know, guard that can get to the rim. Like, it's, it's in that way. Like, I want to know where's Ja? Like, I want to know where his mindset is going into this season. Is he coming in with like, I'm coming in to take it all back. Like, that's really what I want to know. Or is he like, hey, gonna work my way through this, figure this stuff out? Like, I'm just, I'm, I'm very curious by that.

[Dave DeFore]

I'm, I'm really looking forward to seeing John Morant's ambitious dunk attempts again. Nobody misses dunks more in a more spectacular fashion than, than John Morant. For me, it's Doc Rivers. He gave us solid gold last year from, from day one. The second he got there, nobody asked for. I told him not to hire me. Mo told him this was a bad idea. I didn't ask for this, what's he going to give us on media day? Now, we, we've talked extensively about the Bucks. We, we think the Bucks will have a big turnaround season. Some of their issues were, you know, bad coaching to start the season, new personnel. And so those two things kind of work against each other. Injuries obviously played a part in their postseason failures, but there are things that, that they've got to address. I mean, number one, Mo, what Stock river is going to say about their defensive plan this year?

[Mo Takil]

I mean, it's, there's a lot of things. I think that here's the thing, and this is going to be me, and I apologize in advance. It's just, I am just curious if Doc is already lining up an excuse for the season, you know, and, and, and in terms of, of that stuff. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be tough. And we have these things that, you know, like there's going to be some of that stuff. But I also think I want to see what I, I think it's easy to put back in Doc's face. Like you were complaining last year about not having an off season in a training camp. Well, here we are now. You got to deliver. So I'll be interested to see how he responds to all of that stuff. I think his but his answers for me have to come during the regular season. So I think that's kind of the big deal there, and I'll be fascinated to see what they do defensively.

[Dave DeFore]

Important thing to remember, Mo, the Milwaukee Bucks under Doc Rivers have not been beaten when healthy and when they've had a full training camp and full regular season. So just keep that one, you know, remember that. Very important. That's going to do it for today's show, folks. We'll catch you guys next week. Media day on Monday for Motakil, I'm Dave defore. Go and subscribe to the Bounce. Zach Harper needs the love till next week. Thanks for listening.

[Mo Takil]

Bye.

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[Mo Takil]

Acast powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend. Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast. For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do. We love getting to talk to experts, we love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from you.

[Dave DeFore]

But the thing we love most is.

[Mo Takil]

Being a place where you can laugh. A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us. So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness. The Laugh Lines podcast will be all about aging together better and also being able to laugh about getting older. We hope you'll join us. Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness New episodes every Tuesday. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.