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- [00:01]
Dave Dufour
This holiday season, Capital One reminds you to give yourself the gift of 1.5% cash back with the Capital One Quicksilver Card.
- [00:08]
Wes Goldberg
Can I earn 1.5% cash back on birds?
- [00:10]
Dave Dufour
Birds?
- [00:11]
Wes Goldberg
What if you sent your true love.
- [00:14]
Dave Dufour
Two turtledoves plus a partridge and a pear tree?
- [00:16]
Wes Goldberg
Sure, but why would anyone want that? The song was very convincing.
- [00:21]
Dave Dufour
Earn 1.5% cash back on all your holiday purchases with the Capital One Quicksilver Card. What's in your wallet?
- [00:27]
Wes Goldberg
Terms apply. See capitalone.com for details.
- [00:32]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.
- [00:34]
Dave Dufour
This thing weighs a ton.
- [00:35]
Wes Goldberg
Drewski, live with your legs, man.
- [00:37]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
Santa.
- [00:37]
Andrew Schlecht
Santa, did you get my letter?
- [00:39]
Dave Dufour
He's talking to you britches.
- [00:40]
Wes Goldberg
I'm not.
- [00:41]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
Of course he did.
- [00:43]
Wes Goldberg
Right, Santa? You know my elf Drew Ski here.
- [00:45]
Dave Dufour
He handles the nice list. And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus?
- [00:56]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
I'm Mrs. Claude Claus, much younger sister. And AT T Mobile there's no trade.
- [01:01]
Wes Goldberg
In needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [01:04]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
And the best part, you can make.
- [01:05]
Wes Goldberg
The switch to T Mobile from your.
- [01:07]
Zoe / Mrs. Claude Claus / Capital One/Nordstrom Rack Announcer
Phone in just 15 minutes.
- [01:08]
Andrew Schlecht
Nice.
- [01:08]
Dave Dufour
My side of the tree is slipping.
- [01:10]
Wes Goldberg
Kimber. The holidays are better.
- [01:12]
Dave Dufour
AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in U.S. cellular stores with sweet monthly bill.
- [01:21]
Wes Goldberg
Credits for well qualified customers plus tax.
- [01:23]
Dave Dufour
And $35 vice connection charge credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel financing agreement. 256 gigs, $830 eligible for it in a new line. $100 plus a month plan with auto fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line. Visit t mobile.com.
- [01:35]
Andrew Schlecht
Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back with an exciting week of Emirates cup action. The knockout rounds start with quarterfinal double headers on Tuesday and Wednesday night. Then the quest for the cup heads to Vegas for a semifinal doubleheader on Saturday. And it all culminates with the championship game next Tuesday night. I don't know about you, but I absolutely love the NBA cup and the drama that it provides. I'm telling you, players really want to win this thing and if you don't respect the Cup, I don't know what you're doing. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get Started today. Emirates. NBA cup coverage continues this week only on prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.
- [02:32]
Dave Dufour
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for December 10, 2025. I'm Dave Dufour. And coming up, we had NBA cup quarterfinals action last night. The Magic beat the Heat. We got Wes Goldberg here to talk about that. The Knicks beat the Raptors. S was in Toronto. So we're going to talk to him. And I get to say the seven most exciting words on this podcast. Josh Robb going to Las Vegas.
- [03:00]
Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Wes. Not a great night for the Miami Heat. Who Eric Spra said on the bench, you guys aren't trying hard enough to get to Las Vegas. I don't know if it was an effort thing, man. Like the Magic really just, they had a little bit of Magic last night.
- [03:16]
Andrew Schlecht
They did.
- [03:17]
Wes Goldberg
And they are starting to look like the Orlando Magic that we expected them to look like after a slow start. I thought what really stood out about the Magic early in the season, that they weren't playing with that level of physicality, that snot factor that they just had last year that really powered their defense and their defense obviously powered their offense. That's back, man. Like that is back with this Orlando Magic team. They had Miami, the older brother in Florida at home in their arena and they didn't let them get punked.
- [03:43]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [03:43]
Wes Goldberg
This is a team, a Magic team that is three and oh against the Miami Heat so far this season. And a lot of the games have looked like this.
- [03:51]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. And look, the game final score was magic 117, heat 108. The, the magic, they are moving on to Vegas. So we're going to see them Saturday night. This game did not start the way it finished at all. I mean, the fourth quarter and the first, you know, six minutes of this game could not have been more completely opposite. The game started, Miami goes on this 150 run and all of a sudden, you know, I'm sending the yikes chat to the, you know, little text to the group chat saying we might have a blowout here in an NBA cup. Maybe it doesn't mean more, but the Magic really like they clawed back the Bane and bench units, changed the game. I thought John, John Isaac, remembering that he's a really, really high level defender, really helped them there, especially in second and third quarters. Like, what's your take on the Magic, man? Bane has been so great at stirring the drink while Powell was out and, and I felt like they really started to get their legs under him during that stretch and Then immediately Franz Vagner is out. But this team has been resilient, you know, the last couple seasons now through injuries. And I, I'm just curious, like, what's your read on them covering arrival?
- [05:02]
Wes Goldberg
Yeah, in, in some ways they have started to model the Miami Heat, right? I mean, Jamal Mosley has done such a great job completely revamping the culture of that Orlando Magic team. That is a team that is tough, that, like I said, had this little brother syndrome for years. Not just in the state of Florida. They were one of the newer franchises. They have, you know, they made a Finals with Dwight Howard and they've definitely had some success, but it's been a long time and there was always a kind of it never works out for us type of mindset with the Orlando Magic and Jamal Mosley walked in there and said, not anymore. We're not doing that. We're going to be tougher. We're going to be, we're going to be harder working. We're going to do all that stuff that the Heat painted on their court a couple of years ago. We're going to do all that stuff here. And I think in a lot of ways they drew inspiration from their in state rival and over the last few years have even bested them in some of those things, especially in the regular season. So that's been great. And then the Desmond Bain factor, first of all, hand in glove fit, obviously with all the culture stuff and then the three point shooting, you know, all that stuff is obvious. But what I find really interesting and kind of game changing for the Magic. And having acquired Desmond Bain, they now have a guy who could be their best offensive player on any given night. That isn't Franz and isn't Paulo. Where they didn't have that over the last few years. It was Palo or Franz or bust. And as you know, with Paolo and Franz, it's usually one of the other. They still haven't quite figured out how to do it at the same time and frankly, they just haven't been on the court that much at the same time the last couple of years, but with all the injuries. But with Bane, they have a guy who like tonight can go off for 37 points and can say, you know what, don't worry about it guys, don't worry about figuring that stuff out. I got us.
- [06:42]
Dave Dufour
He's also an elite shooter though, right? So the, the actual gravity and geometry on the court is different for him than it is when Paolo and Franz are the guys who are initiating the actions, right? Bane, it was so good playing opposite to John Morant because he could be that second side guy when you get the clear out and you've got, you know, a weaker, you know, you got two guys on one side, he can actually go to work. But now what we're seeing is how good of a pick and roll ball handler he is. How I mean, and the elite shot making that fourth quarter run that he went on, I mean that, that really put the game away for Orlando. I, I don't feel like the Heat challenged after Bane just went off to, to start the fourth and he has that sort of like microwave energy as well. It just seems like this has kind of been his role as this secondary guy next to Jai and he just excels at it. So right now, you know, he will play off guys, but I'm not surprised to see him in the bench trigger this offensive explosion that we got to see last night.
- [07:42]
Wes Goldberg
Yeah, he goes, he makes six three pointers. He goes 6 for 9 in this game against Miami and by the fourth quarter he had that Heat defense in a blender.
- [07:48]
Andrew Schlecht
Right.
- [07:48]
Wes Goldberg
I mean they were just all over the place. And he opens up to your point with the spacing and the shooting. He's opening up these slip cuts for guys like Wendell Carter Jr. And Gogo Batadzi and all these guys kind of.
- [08:00]
Dave Dufour
Slipping to the basket in crunch time.
- [08:03]
Wes Goldberg
Yeah, I mean it was huge. And this Heat defense that is usually so locked in. I counted half a dozen miscommunications and that's rare for an Eric's bolster coach team. But credit Bain for sort of setting out those red alarm fires on the perimeter, making them switch from Davion Mitchell to Andrew Wiggins later in the game, like just searching for an answers to try to figure out this guy with where some of these other leaks started to spring loose.
- [08:26]
Dave Dufour
So we talked about the Heat getting off to a hot start in the game. Look, they finished 8 of 33 from three and they lost by 11 points. If you want to know like the story of the game, just peep the box score. That's it. Like they just did not make shots and. And the Magic really got hot. How do you feel about this team? Like we're, we're looking at them now like quarter the way Mark I. I've been trying to get an assessment from as many people as I can about individual teams and when you look at this heat team, they're 14 and whether it is now they're 14 and 11, now they're right behind Orlando in record. How do you feel about how they stack up in the East. Like, are they, are they going to be competitive come playoff time?
- [09:06]
Wes Goldberg
Yeah, I think they will. You still see the pace and the tempo create advantages enough where that's going to be there. And they're already starting to layer in some new stuff. They're adding some pick and roll sets and things like that, not just because of Tyler Hero, but because of other things too. And their defense travels. This is a good team. They just, they can't beat their Orlando Magic this season for whatever reason, but this is overall a very good basketball team. Yeah. And the shooting is the big story. Here they go. They, they make their first six shots in this game and then after that they base. They shot less than 40% overall. That's tough, right? You're not going to win a lot of basketball games. You know, it's cool going. It's cool shooting 100% for five minutes.
- [09:46]
Dave Dufour
Right.
- [09:47]
Wes Goldberg
If you're shooting less than 40% for 43 minutes, it's going to be a tough way to win a basketball game. Tally Hero and Simone Fantecchio, who are their primary three point shooters, going 0 for 9.
- [09:57]
Dave Dufour
Well, they had some bad formula. Like I will say this, this is, and this is a thing. I think when you play basketball the way that the Heat are playing, you are settling for some okay looks a lot of the time. And some of those Fontechio looks, he's on the wing and he's kind of floating to his left. I mean, these are not good shots for a normal basketball team.
- [10:17]
Wes Goldberg
And I thought Hero passed up some ones that could have otherwise been quality looks.
- [10:21]
Dave Dufour
I agree with that too. I, I like. This is a. There, there's a shot selection issue happening there. And I, I don't think this is systemic. These guys are getting shots up under, you know, the prescription of the coach. Right. They're doing exactly what they're told. But I wonder if they need to maybe rein that in just a little bit. And, and I know it goes against what they're trying to do, but sometimes, man, the good and great look is worth it, especially down the stretch of games. I just don't, I don't know if it's sustainable. You know, when you get to minute 42, 43, 44, to, to just say, all right, we're going to get these shots up in the first five or six seconds when you know your legs aren't fully under you. These are not going to be great looks. And the defense is going to be more locked in because you just aren't Going to go as fast.
- [11:03]
Andrew Schlecht
Right.
- [11:04]
Dave Dufour
So I, I wonder if we won't see them maybe pull the reins in a little bit. I mean, have you noticed anything like that recently?
- [11:11]
Wes Goldberg
No. They're still number one in pace. They're really gunning for it. But it's a good point, right? Like, this is as much as it takes other teams by surprise. It still feels like sometimes it takes themselves by surprise. This is so it catches me off. It's worth repeating how different this is for this.
- [11:26]
Dave Dufour
Mitchell just walking up into a three at the top of the key. I mean, that is an odd thing to watch from this team. You know, like, there's no cut, there's no nothing happening. And guys are, you know, I don't want to say they're doing cardio because they're actually like, they're trying to get open, but it is weird to see, you know, like Wiggins did a lot of that in Golden State and so it has translated, I think, pretty well. Like, you see him, quick trigger, he doesn't care. But it is odd to watch it happen. And you know, with so many of these guys, Davion Mitchell is the one that really sticks out to me. Every time he sticks one of those, I'm just like, wow, where did that come from?
- [11:57]
Wes Goldberg
Yeah, I mean, he's in very many ways been the engine of this offense. Not just with the, the pull up threes, but he's one of the guys that can get downhill, get two feet in the paint and kick out the shooters. It's when they get away from that downhill attack where I think they start to get into trouble. I think they're still trying to figure out the balance of when do we get downhill, when do we try to put the defense into rotation and then kind of get into our wheel that they've always talked about, right? Where guys are moving around or when do we just take this quick, like Phoenix Suns, you know, seven seconds or less type of shot. I still think they're trying to figure out the balance of that, honestly. And then adding Tyler Hero into the mix midstream just sort of added another element there. I think if they do figure it out, they'll be better for it. It's. Why you. My answer to you is no. I don't see them pulling the reins in anytime soon because I think they want to explore this. But I also know this Eric Spolster has things up his sleeve, right? We know that he's got some pick and roll sets. There's ways that they could slow it down. Tyler Hero Norm Powell and Bam Adebayo and Wiggins, to a degree, have all shown the ability to get to the free throw line. If they need to slow the game down and play it that way, they can. They've won games that way this season too. So SPO has talked about that recently about trying to win games in different ways, even if they can't get to their uptempo game. But I think this is a learning curve for everybody so far.
- [13:11]
Dave Dufour
Can I. Can I say one of the big differences for me from the last couple years to this season with this team is that they're actually fun to watch. You know, I've talked about how the heat and I'll just. I'll just say it out loud. With Jimmy Butler, they did not. It was joyless basketball. It was grift try to get to the free throw line as much as possible. And they were constantly down a guy because he didn't play very often. Right. And so at least now, like, they're mostly healthy all the time. Like these guys go so hard. And then the style of play, I think is also kind of appealing to watch. Like, am I just picking up on the wrong stuff here? Does it feel like there's maybe just a little bit more joy in the building? Like, I don't know what it is. It's not just that they're playing faster. It feels like they're playing more connected.
- [13:56]
Wes Goldberg
You're picking up on the number one storyline that people are talking about here in Miami. This team is so fun to watch. I talk not just to, you know, people around the team, to season ticket holders. And people are over overjoyed with the way this team is playing. The pace is great. They're playing with joy. They're playing for each other. It was a splintered locker room last year. Jimmy Butler was forcing his way out. That's not news. We all knew it. Everybody could see it. This is very different, right? This is a team that is rallying in the wake of all of that, for sure, but also is enjoying the process of learning this new scheme and playing up tempo. It's a young team. All of a sudden you're looking around, it's like, Jimmy's gone, Kevin Love is gone. Kyle Lowry is gone. Like that group that went to the finals in 2023. This is a young team that is built through the draft with a lot of athletes now. And this is the way that this roster ought to play. And I think Eric Spoelster figured that out and there is, there was a lack of joy Last year that was palpable. I think you're absolutely right and spot on on that. And I think that's a strategy for Eric's bolster. I think that was part of devising the scheme was, yeah, we obviously have to juice the offense after being in the bottom 10 in offensive rating for the last three years, but we also have to have some fricking fun around here.
- [15:03]
Dave Dufour
Right?
- [15:03]
Wes Goldberg
And we. And that, that carries through in the regular season and kind of sets the tone for whatever this next era is of Miami Heat basketball. Post Jimmy Butler, I think it's a big part of it. One last thing I'll say about that. The Miami Heat, we always know are on the list of potential destinations for superstar players, right? It's Miami, it's the Heat organization, the track record of maximizing superstars. All of that is true. They're always mentioned in those rumors. But now they have a third selling point. This is a style of play that a lot of players like to play, and I think that's kind of interesting going forward.
- [15:38]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, Norm Powell had an interview that I, that I caught in the last week where he talked about the difference between, you know, playing with the Clippers and playing with the Heat, and he talked about the Heat culture and being in shape and whatnot. But it did seem like. It's just seems like a pretty good place where players might want to be. Speaking of. Okay, I gotta ask you, man, because the Heat are always going to be in trade rumors December 15, right around the corner. I don't what's going on, man? Like, are they. Are they in on Ja? Are they going to be like calling about Lamelo? Like, what. What do you see the Heat trying to do? As we look at trade season.
- [16:14]
Wes Goldberg
The number one name's gotta be Giannis.
- [16:16]
Andrew Schlecht
Right.
- [16:16]
Wes Goldberg
Everybody's in a holding pattern until we find out if Giannis is going to hit the big red button or not. And if he does hit the eject button on the Milwaukee Bucks tenure, then the Miami Heat will be one of the first teams calling the Bucks front office. And who knows? I'm not going to predict whether or not they can get a deal done. Who knows?
- [16:34]
Andrew Schlecht
Sure.
- [16:35]
Wes Goldberg
But that's one of the reasons why I say, like, imagine Giannis in this system. And one thing I found really interesting the other day was Giannis was asked about, he's moving up. He moved up to whatever number on the all time points leaders or whatever, and he was asked about it by a reporter after the game. How high do you think you can eventually go and he's, I think I could be the all time leading scorer. So basically surpassed LeBron James as the all time leading scorer and a reporter said, yeah, maybe seven, eight, nine years. And he goes four and a half seasons. Giannis has been thinking about this.
- [17:04]
Dave Dufour
Just, just do it.
- [17:05]
Wes Goldberg
Well, hey, you want to put up a lot of points per game. What about playing with the team that averages the Most possessions for 48 minutes in the league in the Miami Heat? I just, I, I find it interesting and, and I do think that Giannis would be number one on a lot of teams boards. Obviously the Miami heats, whether or not they'd be involved in anybody else, who knows. But they got to figure out that Giannis domino first.
- [17:26]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I agree. He's going to hold up a lot of stuff. Wes Goldberg, thanks for joining me guys. You can catch him. He hosts Locked on Heat and Real GM Radio does a really great job, covers the entire league over at Real GM Radio. So go and check that out, guys. Stick around after the break. S is at the Raptors Knicks game. We're going to see what happens.
- [17:52]
Andrew Schlecht
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- [19:41]
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- [21:37]
Dave Dufour
Well, as hard as I was rooting, I'm not going to get the Georgia bowl between Mamu and Goga in Vegas because the Knicks, they beat our Raptors. S they did. You know they did. Yeah, our Raptors. They've been struggling here lately and last night just no different. The the Knicks offense is just on another level when it is is locked in like they were last night. Jalen Brunson was amazing. The defense has found its footing here with OG Anunoby coming back. What was your impression of the Knicks seen Him firsthand last night.
- [22:11]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
Yeah, they were dominant offensively. I mean they carved up. The Raptors. Jalen Brunson, he was sensational in the first quarter and there wasn't a single soul on the Raptors that could guard him. They had problems guarding him, getting to the basket, working above the break, getting into that mid range area. Truthfully, man, there isn't a guy in the NBA, maybe other than some guys on the Oklahoma City Thunder that I would trust when it comes to guarding Jalen Brunson. He just is that hard to guard on a night to night basis and he showed why tonight, I think. The Knicks offense in general looks very potent and Karl Anthony Towns, who was questionable coming into this game, decided to play and he was great. Picking apart Jakob Pertle, really putting pressure on him above the break as a three point shooter, but also like attacking closeouts and finishing there. And then they have the, the, the quartet of OG Anunoby, Josh Harp, Cale Bridges, guys who really one can shoot the ball, including Josh Hart now who apparently is a sniper. And they have guys we were talking.
- [23:21]
Dave Dufour
About he might have hand surgery and all of a sudden he just doesn't miss threes anymore.
- [23:26]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
Yeah, yeah, it's been awesome. Look, the Knicks offense, it's funny because this is two teams on two different sides of the offensive trajectory. Right? The Knicks are trending in the right direction. They've been an elite offense over the last couple of weeks. They've turned into a top five offense overall. Whereas the Raptors, they started out as an elite offense and now have completely created over the last couple of weeks for a couple reasons that we'll probably get to.
- [23:51]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I, I do want to swing to their side. Brandon Ingram was awesome, but he was basically the only bright spot for, for the Raptors. It had a playoff vibe to the game. I will say that, like these guys definitely were. They got blown out. Honestly, this was not a lack of effort. The shots didn't fall and the Knicks shot the lights out. I mean it was, it really was hot shooting and excellent offense. But for the Raptors, you talked about the, the, the drop off in offense and how, how early on in the season they had just an easier time scoring. They were creating more stuff in transition as it drags on, man, like I'm starting to worry about the sustainability of the style of play and, and you know, not to jump too far ahead because I do want to focus on last night, but I do think we saw a little bit of their dead legs that have kind of caught up with them. At this point in the season. And it's partially because it has to be because of how high they're picking up the ball, how much, you know, the increase in pace, just the rate of play. They, they kind of run a lot, right? Not just run a lot as in up and down the court, but even in the half court, there's a lot of movement for these guys. So, you know, like we are looking at a team that I think looks tired. They're. They're 3 and 6 in their last nine. The offense, as you mentioned, like, is dropped off tremendously. You know, how do they mitigate this? They're getting a big break, but how do they mitigate this? We're only a quarter of the way through. S, man. Like they, they've gotta find a balance point.
- [25:22]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
Well, first off, like, I, I think the reason they're three and six over their last nine, part of it is the tired legs. They just played seven games in 11 days with two back to back squeezed in there. But there's multiple reasons why they look a little bit tired than they should be so early in the season. One, they haven't had RJ Barrett for that stretch. And Barrett is a 20 point per game score for them. He is literally the only guy on the team that can get two feet into the paint consistently. And so they're getting a lot harder looks offensively. You talked about the reliance on Brandon Ingram tonight. That overreliance has been the case for the last two weeks. They've really begged him to be the number one scoring option. And I think it's fine when you have multiple other guys out there that can get to 20 on any given night. But when it's just Vi who can get to the get, like basically score the ball at will, it gets a little bit harder for everybody else. The other guy that's been a really big factor for them is Yaka Purdle. Purdle has been dealing with a back issue all season. Obviously this is a guy who just signed a contract extension in the summer for the raptors. He's over 30 years old. And so you think of how do they sustainably keep this guy healthy, Healthy over the course of the season, which, by the way, he has not played in any back to backs. He rests one of those games either way. And he didn't look good tonight. I mean, Carl Anthony Towns picked him apart, but the Knicks defense overall picked him apart to the point where they tried to camp him onto Josh Hart. And then Josh Hart started hitting threes and getting to the Basket. And so I, I don't know what the solution is for the Yaka purdle equation of things other than them making a trade. I mean Sham Sharani today brought up the idea of them being involved in Anthony Davis trade rumors. I don't know if that will be the case, but they clearly need to address the center position not just with Jakob, but finding a backup for Jakob so that he can sustainably play an 82 game season.
- [27:22]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I mean listen, as much as I like Bamu off the bench for that offensive surge, they need a defensive anchor center. It, it's one of the things that, that would make everyone's job easier, allow Scotty Barnes to be completely unlocked as that help side guy. And look, when we look at this team, I, I think that, you know, the vision probably includes some sort of an upgrade in the middle as far as athleticism goes. For sure. It is just weird that he, you know, he did just sign that contract. Let's swing it back to the Knicks because they won the game. They've been playing really good basketball lately, especially on the, on the offensive side they're getting healthier. Although Miles McBride, we're still waiting to hear the severity of that injury which is, you know, that's a pretty big deal for their bench. But getting OG Anunoby back in there. We talked about how much they've struggled on the road and how defense is actually travels. OG Anunoby in this game last night, just having him there is that secondary rim protector guy to come over and help instantly makes their entire defense make some sense.
- [28:26]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
He is just a one man wrecking crew defensively for them tonight. Scotty Barnes struggled and a big reason for that was because he was OGN Elvy's main assignment on defense. He was getting into him in driving lanes, he was poking the ball out in post ups, he was sending help when he wasn't guarding Scotty and it forced Scotty into a lot of tough shots. This is a guy who Scotty over the last couple weeks has gotten into rhythm as a driver and OG Anunoby just stifled him. Just said this is not happening today. And that is the type of defender that OG has been throughout his career. It's what the Knicks need him to be to be a championship level team. And truthfully they have leaned in more on this like hey, we're going to switch everything. We're comfortable leaning with Karl Anthony Town switching out onto the perimeter more often because we know will have the help side recovery stuff from OG from Mikhail, from Josh Hart and the backline protection of Mitchell Robinson to where we feel comfortable putting Cat in space. Putting Brunson in space. A big part of that equation is OG Anunoby because he can kind of again, a one man wrecking crew. He stops and plugs the hole in so many different situations. I once likened him to playing whack a mole on defense with the problems of the Knicks. He still does that. He plays basketball.
- [29:50]
Dave Dufour
Protection. Look, when Mitchell Robinson isn't out there and Cat needs that help behind him, OG Anunoby is that help. I mean, this, this guy is. He's underrated completely at this point because he's on a team full of stars. Look, let's talk about the Knicks just as contenders. You know, we'll talk to James Edwards this weekend, but we're at the quarterway, Mark. We know their, their defense is the weakness. The offense has no ceiling as far as I'm concerned. The issue there s is that the, the reason their offense has no ceiling is because of Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns.
- [30:25]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
Absolutely.
- [30:26]
Dave Dufour
The reason I don't trust their defense is because of Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns. Thoughts?
- [30:34]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
I mean, look, I agree with you, but this is the, this is the makeup of the roster. I mean, you kind of live by Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns and for all intents and purposes, you will die by Jalen Brunson and Carl. Carl Anthony Towns. And truthfully, Dave, I will say I like their chances in the Eastern Conference. When you look at that.
- [30:53]
Dave Dufour
Keep it close, man. These guys are going to get you Jalen Brunson down the stretch of games. There's not a single pound for pound. Is this the most scary guy you've ever seen in four quarters in NBA history? It's him or Isaiah Thomas? Boston.
- [31:08]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
I honestly like. Of the guards in the NBA, it's him, Shay and Steph. That you just throw your hands up and say you don't know what to do anymore. You just.
- [31:19]
Dave Dufour
They really are our soul snatchers. Yeah, right.
- [31:23]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
Yeah, they are. They.
- [31:24]
Dave Dufour
Those three guys in particular.
- [31:26]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
I should throw Luca in this too, because Luca is.
- [31:29]
Dave Dufour
But he's.
- [31:29]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
He's like a bigger cow.
- [31:30]
Dave Dufour
He's too big. Yeah, he's too big. Yeah. And Shay's probably too big.
- [31:34]
Wes Goldberg
Let's be honest.
- [31:34]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
I agree. I agree. Yeah, but look, to your point about them in the east, especially with the Cavs not getting off to the greatest start right now, I think this is their conference to win. I think they're the clear cut between them and the Pistons, they are the two clear cut, best teams in the conference as of today. And if you look at experience, if you look at star power, and that's.
- [31:57]
Dave Dufour
What biases us against the pistons there.
- [31:59]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
100%. Yeah, exactly.
- [32:01]
Dave Dufour
100%. This is kind of like OKC, you know, last year. And I'm not going to say the Pistons are in the same spot, but they just haven't done it before. We haven't seen it yet.
- [32:11]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
And you gotta trust.
- [32:12]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, that's it. And the Knicks, I mean, frankly, they haven't done it either. Right. Like I would like, this is the season. I think the Knicks have no excuses. Yeah. If they can make it, and it's early, but if they can make it through this year, these guys are healthy. This should be a Finals team. There's nothing that stops them.
- [32:30]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
No, I agree. I think if I had to bet right now, I would bet the Knicks to make it to the Finals. Winning the Finals is a different story. And I think that's what the aspirations for this team is. Right. Like, that's why they throw themselves into these Giannis conversations, is because any team that has a chance right now to win an NBA championship, and the Knicks are a team that has a chance, you have to ask yourself, can you beat the Oklahoma City Thunder in a series? And right now the answer is no, they can't. There's no one, in my opinion, that can beat the Thunder in a series right now. But that's why they get involved in these Giannis conversations. That's why I'm curious to see if they'll make any other marginal move. They have Mitchell Robinson's expiring contract, they have a couple other rotation players. I mean, Landry Shamit needs to get back for this team, but they're very good and they're getting better, which is the scary part to this whole equation.
- [33:23]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, it's fun. I. I love these Brunson games. Man, this guy is just, I don't know, he's something else.
- [33:27]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
I'll tell you.
- [33:28]
Dave Dufour
I'll tell you this about Boxer man. He reminds me of like a boxer who just scores a lot of points, takes you 12 rounds. He's always going to, you know, like, be in the, in the fight.
- [33:38]
S (Raptors/Knicks Analyst)
There was a Raptors fan sitting courtside wearing a OG Anunoby Raptors jersey. And throughout the first quarter, he was chirping Jalen Brunson very consistently every single time up and down the floor. He was yelling at Brunson and by the way, Brunson was yelling back and how many points did Jalen Brunson score in the first quarter? I think it was something like 20 or 23 points in the first quarter. I think that was a bad idea by that fan. Tough.
- [34:08]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, don't, don't talk trash to NBA players. It doesn't work out. They never work. Yeah. Thank you, S. Appreciate you hanging out, guys. That's Esperahenny. I'm Dave defore. Thanks to Wes Goldberg for joining earlier. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.
- [34:43]
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