Mirin Fader (2:20)

Thank you.

Zena Keda (2:20)

Good.

Dave DeFore (2:21)

Awesome. The Charlotte Hornets are fast becoming our favorite team around here. Like they're so much fun and with the slow week, we thought it would be a good time to check in on some of the bigger stories that we've had over at the Athletics. So we brought in our feature writer, Mirin Fader, who wrote a great story about Khan Caniple and His whole process and family and upbringing. Mirin, welcome to the show. How did you have the idea to. To follow around con canipple and how did you know it was going to be so interesting?

Mirin Fader (2:56)

My editor, actually, Glenn, he was like, you know, there's something interesting about this guy and his family. Like, I'm seeing this family everywhere and there's a lot of K names. And so for me, as a feature writer, I'm like, okay, what's interesting? What's beyond the. Like, somebody scoring 20 points a game? And I was like, huh? Like, he's actually really good, but who is he? You know, what's. What's happening with him? And I think a lot of smaller market teams that don't get a lot of attention, they have the best stories. So I was like, I need to see what this guy's backstory is.

Zena Keda (3:25)

And I love your piece, especially the way you open it up. Coach Charles Lee, head coach of the Charlotte Hornets. Colin Khan, an effing killer. And that feels jarring given how composed and kind of understated and poised Khan comes across publicly.

Dave DeFore (3:42)

He looks like an accountant. Like, we can say this Xena. Okay, He. He just.

Zena Keda (3:46)

It just.

Dave DeFore (3:48)

That's not what we think about when we think about basketball. Killer, right?

Zena Keda (3:52)

1,000%. You're absolutely right. And Mirren, you've written a lot of deep profiles on a lot of NBA players. So I'm curious for maybe other effing killers that you've probably covered. How does Khan compare as a person as you kind of peel back the layers and found out more about him?

Mirin Fader (4:12)

Oh, my gosh. My, like, killer rankings. Yes. He. It's so funny because we were just meeting at this junior college and he walks in and, like, if you didn't know basketball, you would literally not think this person is an NBA player. He looks so like, boy next door. And he was so normal and nice and, hi, how are you doing? You know, versus us. We're used to just like, going around, you know, trying to get two minutes with this person. Will they let us talk to them in the hallway? He's just like, so down to earth and normal. And then he gets on the court and it's this like, straight up menace. And I think out of all the killers that I've profiled, including his teammate, Lamelo Ball, Khan is definitely top five. Like, what?

Dave DeFore (4:58)

Wow.

Mirin Fader (4:59)

Like, Khan is top five because he's so silent with it. It's so out of nowhere. Like, he has this deadpan face and then he's just like, the competitiveness Just comes out and he's. He gets black eyes, he gets bruises. He'll get knocked down. He comes back the next day and he's just like, yeah, I'm gonna bust a three in your face. Like, it's just. I can't even explain it. It is such a silent.

Zena Keda (5:22)

It's giving. Yeah, it's giving. Early Stefan Curry.

Dave DeFore (5:25)

I mean, it's. It's the account, you know, it's like the movie, you know, the Ben Affleck.

Zena Keda (5:30)

With Kobe calling Stephan the baby face killer. And it was because you didn't expect it. Now, you know, Steph, I feel like has the. He understands the business of it. He understands the entertainment of it. So he kind of has the. The moments. But before, when he started, it was very much like. It's deadpan, those laser eyes. I'm just focused in.

Mirin Fader (5:50)

Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like that clip with, like, Kobe and it was Matt Barnes, right? Who like, throws the ball out.

Zena Keda (5:57)

Yes.

Mirin Fader (5:57)

I am not blinking.

Zena Keda (6:00)

Yeah.

Mirin Fader (6:00)

Does not blink. And like, he's just so focused. And it's funny because, like, when coach Lee was telling me that he was so serious, he was like, look, I'm not even exaggerating. Like, this is him. And I think that's cool because a lot of times, especially with three point shooters, they think, oh, you just stand in the corner, corner and like bus threes. But there is a tenacity. He is working on his defense. Like, you see the killer come out in so many other ways than just like, I'm gonna score on you.

Dave DeFore (6:29)

How much of the success that we're seeing from the Hornets? And it's funny to say because he's a rookie and he's halfway through his rookie year. Right. This is not the sort of player that typically affects a team. How much would you give him credit for Conan Nipple coming in as a rookie and being ready to play physically and mentally ready to play. Like, what would you put it at? A percentage? I want to know what you think after spending time with these guys.

Mirin Fader (6:54)

I feel like his impact because it goes beyond just, you know, the scoring and the impact. I would put it 50, 60%.

Dave DeFore (7:05)

Wow.

Mirin Fader (7:06)

When he talks, people listen. And even the veterans on that team, which there are a lot. Like, I spent a lot of time with Pat Connison and he was so effusive with his praise about Khan's leadership and the way he's so mature. And so I think, like, that type of thing is why they're doing well. It isn't just, you Know, I'm scoring a lot and we're having fun. I think he really does try to like, bring people together even as a rookie to be able to like, lead in film session, which he does, and, you know, point out what everybody's doing and go. Just go to a teammate individually and say, hey, I need you to be here. Like, those are things that you don't really start doing till like second year, third year, fourth year, you know. And I think even being on a team with guys who are used to doing that, like Pat, it really speaks volumes about the confidence that he has and, and the way that his teammates empower him to do that. Right. It would be very easy for them to resent him. Oh, who are you? Like this rookie coming in, telling us what to do? Whatever. Everyone really likes him. And I think it's because he does the work right? Like, he's not asking you to do something that he's not willing to do. It isn't loud, it isn't, you know, I'm the best. I'm the leader of the team. It's very much like, I'm gonna go about my work and I hope you do too, and let's have fun.

Zena Keda (8:26)

I love that visual of, you know, him raising his hand in film session to call things out because I remember being a freshman and being told by my coach, just stand on the sand, watch the waves from the beach.

Mirin Fader (8:38)

Right?

Zena Keda (8:39)

Like you're supposed to just observe and listen. And so I love that. And you know what Dave is referring to. We saw that nine game winning streak between January, February, longest for the franchise since 1999, second longest in franchise history. And a lot of that can be attributed to just how well they did offensively. First in offensive efficiency during that run, second in three point shooting percentage, and had a top five defense. And you're looking at Ball Lamelo, who you've covered from like high school before he got to the league, which is awesome. And than Miller and Knipple and this trio and this chemistry that they've picked up so quickly. What's been the thing to help build that chemistry? And how rare is it to see guys pick up that so quickly the way that we've seen these guys pick it up?

Mirin Fader (9:32)

It's super rare. And you know what? The more I think about it, the more I think the reason why they bonded so well is actually something that others consider to be a knock on them, but it's actually what makes them so good. So it's their ability to have fun. And we hear that especially as sports writers are, like, really? That's the key. You're having fun. Okay. Like, so cliche, right? Thank you. I'm glad you're having fun. You're making a lot of money, and you're playing professional basketball. No, but, like, it. Like, that is the key. And at first when Khan said that to me, like, we have fun, I, you know, have really learned to center joy in my life. I thought, is that really the key? But then it is, because sometimes players get so nervous. They get so in their heads. They're worried about the wrong things. Everybody's trying to get their own stats, everybody's trying to get paid that you. You forget. Not only forget joy, but you lose it, and it becomes this job, and it becomes this monotonous slog. Melo Miller Khan. They look like they're playing pickup 24 7, and they just look like they're having a ball. And it's because they are. And I think that's why they're so poised, is because they are making sure that they haven't lost that sort of joyful, youthful spirit. And a lot of guys, as they progress in their careers, they lose that. And I think what you're seeing is that young energy. And so while people tend to criticize that, especially with somebody like Lamelo, it's actually their greatest engine. It's actually what is making this so fun. And it's, like, palpable, right? Like, even the one practice that I was there to do this story, I felt the vibes. Like, the vibes were so high. Everyone was joking with each other. And, like, don't get me wrong, they were serious. They were going through their. Their drills and shooting, but everyone was sort of messing with each other. You know, Lamello was like, you can't shoot that. And he's like, watch this. You know, and it's like your favorite kid brother going off. But they're all like that, no matter their age. And so I think they know when it's time to get serious, but they also know that if you keep that sort of fresh, youthful, fun spirit, you can still get results. And, you know, I was. At the time I went to the practice, I was hearing all these reports, like, oh, there's trouble in Charlotte. Will Lamelo stay? And I was like, literally, everyone is having so much fun at this practice. I could be wrong, right? I'm an outsider. But I was like, no. Vibes are really, really, like, awesome. They look like they genuinely all enjoy being there.

Dave DeFore (11:56)

Yeah. We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna talk more about Joy and the Charlotte Hornets.

Mirin Fader (12:07)

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Mirin Fader (13:39)

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Dave DeFore (13:54)

So how much of this is about con caneple? How much of this is Lamello ball and how much of this is Charles Lee? Because this guy, I believe Charles Lee has come down there and just changed everything for the franchise. Did you see a couple weeks ago when Lamelo ran into him on the sideline during the game? Did you see this? They kind of crashed into each other. Charles Lee goes into the locker room with a hard hat on and charges at Lamelo and I mean the entire locker room is cutting up to your point. Before, this entire franchise was a sad story. They never won. They were constantly sort of in the play in not really, you know, no direction whatsoever. And in the last year and a half, things have just changed. I mean, part of that is Charles Lee, and they've drafted really well. I am going to give Charles Lee. If you're saying 50% con canipple the other 50% has got to be Charles Lee.

Mirin Fader (14:54)

Oh, got to be. And I saw that too. First of all, the clip of him charging out during. During the brawl and, like, defending the team.

Dave DeFore (15:02)

I was like, yes.

Mirin Fader (15:03)

I was like, okay, yep, yep. He has that team's respect. Like, Charles Lee is about that life. Like, that was absolutely like that. Told me everything I need to know. He's going to war for them. They're going to war for him. He. He commands the respect of the entire gym and team. I really also like that he encourages questions. We talked about film session. I like that he empowers players to speak up. What do you see? What do you see? What do you see that's critical for a young team? You have to not be afraid to ask questions. You have to not be afraid to speak up. And I think he's empowering all of them to kind of learn in real time. One of the things that didn't make the piece, I was talking a lot about the way that Khan makes adjustments so quickly, but it takes, yes, it takes the player to make adjustments in the game quickly. And these young players are doing that really, really well. But it's also the coach to trust them that, hey, I trust that you can make this adjustment immediately. It's not something I want you to go think about after the game. We'll figure it out a shoot around tomorrow. He's like, I need you to do this now. And I think he's. He's really coaching them and trusting them and trusting their intellect and saying, like, I believe you can do this. And I think belief and confidence, those are. Again, it sounds so cliche, but he really does have belief and confidence in this team. And you can see it in the way that they play. When you play free, that tells me your coach lets you play free. And Lamelo has it now. And you know, Brandon and Khan, like, they play free. And I think that that definitely comes down to your coach.

Zena Keda (16:40)

Yeah. You wanna. I feel like at all times, if you can get an AAU level of basketball right, where people are having fun, but they also know there's something on the line. Right. Scholarships, opportunities from that perspective, but, like, it's still fun, it's still energetic, and I think Lamelo is like the perfect example of that.

Dave DeFore (16:59)

The freedom to make mistakes.

Zena Keda (17:01)

Yeah.

Dave DeFore (17:01)

It allows Creativity, I mean, and I say this all the time. You know, I defend Lamelo because I do believe he's one of the more creative players. And I think it takes a special coach. You know, if I'm going to compare Lamelo to Picasso, I think Charles Lee has done a great job of making sure that he's got every color in the palette. His brushes are clean. You know, the canvas is ready for him. And I. I honestly think that that's why we're seeing the best version of Lamelo. He is an artist with the basketball. And, no, like, it has not been stolen from him. And yet we're watching him cut the fat in a way that he has never done in his entire career. And I just can't help, as a coach myself, I cannot help but place a lot of this on Charles Lee because it is a difference, and I think it starts with him.

Mirin Fader (17:48)

Yeah. Coach Lee, to me, emphasizes what I always heard from coaches growing up is like, the ones you want to play for are the ones that take note of everyone's strength. And it's like, okay, how can I make you shine? Instead of trying to say, no, I want you to change and be completely, completely different and fit into my system. He's like, no, you're good at this. You're good at this, Lamelo. This is your game. I respect that. I'm not trying to change you. I'm trying to help you shine.

Dave DeFore (18:13)

Lamelo's the system.

Mirin Fader (18:15)

Lamello is the system. Look at the joy when Lamelo passes the ball. I'm sorry. You cannot tell me that's a selfish person. I.

Dave DeFore (18:22)

Right.

Mirin Fader (18:22)

You know, I was able to go to Lithuania when He was, like, 16 years old, playing pro. Just left high school, go to Australia right before he was prepping for the draft, spending weeks with him. And I was so amazed at the discrepancy between what others think of himself. Selfish, arrogant, ball hog, unserious, not a winner. Versus, like, this ultimate team guy who always made the effort to hang out with teammates, to involve them, to cheer them on, to help them get better, to always keep everyone laughing, even in difficult moments. I kind of saw a maturity that others were not talking about. And it's so fascinating now, all these years later, to see him be this adult, and the same criticism follows him. But if you're really actually playing with him, you see he does make everyone around him better, and he does fully embrace who he is. I think maybe, you know, and I'm trying to profile him again, so maybe we'll talk again soon. But I think, but I think, like, he's. It seems to me as somebody that's covered him in the past, that he's at a point where it's like, you know what? I don't really care what y' all think of me. I know who I am. I know what this team can do. And I'm just focused on helping us be great versus, you know, this kind of individualistic showboat that everyone thinks. And again, it's like they're winning. So.

Dave DeFore (19:51)

Right.

Mirin Fader (19:52)

What do you say when they're winning?

Zena Keda (19:55)

There's an. So many things are popping in my mind. As you're, you're laying that out, the first thing that comes to mind is like, what does this do for not only the Charlotte Hornets brand of basketball, but their brand overall? Like, we know that Lamelo has international appeal. His shoes are top selling around the world. Like, if you look at Gen Z and below, they. If they're mellow. Is that mellow?

Dave DeFore (20:20)

If we put Lamelo's name in the title of this on YouTube, it will do.

Zena Keda (20:24)

No, yeah, I'll do numbers. Like, he, he is such Persona worldwide. And then you balance it with this con. Knipple guy who's also really approachable. Again, same kind of vibe of like the boy next door. And we know, I've already mentioned Stephen Curry, but we know what that brand of basketball player also does. Approachable. Makes you feel like I can get there too. I could do this at this high level as well. And I feel like the two of them together can transcend, you know, what we know to be 19 win Charlotte Hornets last year. Right. Like, I feel like there's, there's another thing. And so I was curious what your experience was as at All Star, seeing Khan Knipple kind of get onto the national stage and being part of the three point competition. Like, what did it feel like hearing about the Charlotte Hornets and Khan's representation there? Like, what, what did it feel like from that perspective?

Mirin Fader (21:16)

You know, it's funny, like pitching the story. It's like, well, who cares about the Hornets? And then flash forward, the story comes out. It's All Star Weekend and it's like, Hornets, Hornets, Hornets, like everywhere.

Zena Keda (21:25)

Right?

Mirin Fader (21:26)

Like, let's go back to the story, please. Yes. It's just like it's, it's amazing. And it, and what it shows you is that like, what we think, you know, us in this world of, of prediction and pundits, like, anything can change like that. A team can have chemistry and get hot and players can surprise you and Seeing Khan, it's like this is a person that actually almost didn't think they could continue playing basketball. Like, that's a part of the story that I hope people take away. There was this time period during, you know, college at Duke where he felt so homesick and just so lost, trying to get used to everything that he literally said to his parents, is this worth it? Is this dream that I am chasing worth it? Is pushing myself to exhaustion each day worth it? Like, and feeling such extreme emotions from not playing well in his first earlier games that he's like, I don't want to ever feel this way again. Like, I don't want basketball to dictate every emotion that I have. I want to be great, but not at the sacrifice of my mental health, my mood, my emotion. And so you look at somebody who literally was on the verge of his mom, was about to drive to Duke and bring him home in and coach. I spoke with one of the assistant coaches. They were like, we didn't know if he was going to make it to. He's at All Star weekend in the three point contest.

Dave DeFore (22:47)

In the final.

Zena Keda (22:48)

In the final, final, yeah.

Mirin Fader (22:51)

Looking like somebody's again accountant. And I mean that's so respectfully. And yet he's just like, yeah, but I know I can be here. Like, that's what really stood out to me from the time that I spoke with him. And he was reflecting back even in November when they played the Bucks. He's looking at Giannis and he's like, okay, yeah, this is a nerve wracking situation, but I know I belong here to All Star. I felt like I was watching the embodiment of I belong here.

Zena Keda (23:24)

Oh God, I love all of this. And I, I feel like there's something to be said about his family. Right. We, we've talked very lightly about just I remember at draft all the K names being announced, like the little montage that they do and like the drops of all the brothers names and. And then learning in your story that their, their home is called the convent or the Con.

Mirin Fader (23:47)

The conplex, the complex.

Zena Keda (23:49)

That's what it was. I was like, maybe not nuns. There it is. Thank you. The complex. And he has like a great basketball heritage. I mean, his mom, Sherry, Green Bay's all time scoring leader. Didn't know that. Did not know that. That's so dope. I actually texted folks from the no offseason staff after I heard that. I was like, hold on. Did you guys know that Con is from history? Got a pedigree, has a Little pedigree. His uncle did a little stint in the NBA. There's a lot I didn't know and I got to learn from your piece. But just spending time around his family, I think that, to me, was enough to learn why. Even when he didn't want to play basketball, maybe he didn't have. When he didn't have the original love for it, and he fell in love with it through history books and encyclopedias. I felt like his family probably had a lot to do with that. What do you think the. The roots of where he comes from? His mom being willing to go down a duke to possibly pick him up and being like, it's not all about basketball. It doesn't have to all about be about basketball. What do you think that did for his ability to just be phenomenal now in his space, in his sport?

Mirin Fader (24:57)

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up, because it really taught me, at least that what they gave him was perspective. And it totally shocked me because usually when somebody comes from such a, like, storied family, it's actually the opposite. You must play basketball. You have to be amazing. I need you to play for the hometown school. You got to go to the NBA. We're going to work on dribbling through cones after school. It was the total opposite. It was like, hey, we had this great career. We're not forcing you into this. And I think it's such an example if you let your. You know, I don't have kids. But learning, speaking with the family, being around them, like, it just taught me that if you actually let them figure it out themselves, they will fall deeper in love with the game. They will become even more obsessed with it if you don't force them. And him, he's also a great example of how you have to watch so much basketball to become not just good at it, but really smart and intelligent at it. He's watching his dad's, like, men's league games, and he's learning more than you could ever learn at some clinic where they're like, hey, to do this drill, you have to position your foot like this. Like, he. He's just watching his dad, and he's so, like, involved. He starts crying when his dad loses when he's a little kid. Like, he's so attached to the game that he's just like, you'd think he was in the game. And so, to me, I thought that was the coolest part, is, like, he's such a nerd. Like, that's what I like. I just was like, wow, this is, like, the biggest basketball nerd I've talked to. He'll call his friend and be like, let's. Let's talk about who was in the 96 draft. Like, imagine just fitting because he looks.

Dave DeFore (26:41)

Like an NBA podcaster. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he looks like a guy that would. Would roll in here and talk to me and Xena about the Charlotte Hornets.

Mirin Fader (26:49)

100% going to take our jobs. If not, we'll be the head coach of University of Wisconsin. But I think. I think to your point, Cena, it was this wonderful background of falling in love with the game that had nothing to do with making it your career. I wish so many of us learned this lesson. Whether it's like, hey, what major do I need to be in college so that I can get X career? There was no, like, hey, what's your career? It was just like, okay, do you love this? Do you want to do this? Cool. Let's go. Shoot. Okay, You. You're still into this. You still want to do this? All right, I'll sign you up for this camp. It was never X to get Y. It was never a means to an end. And look, he ended up there without, you know, putting that pressure on him.

Dave DeFore (27:32)

Yeah. He grew up with the two most powerful words in the English language. Let's play. And that was how he took it. Yeah. It's amazing. It's a great story. The Charlotte Hornets are a great story. Everybody go and read Mirren over at the Athletic. Can you give us a sneak peek on what you've got coming out next?

Mirin Fader (27:50)

Okay.

Dave DeFore (27:52)

Are you allowed?

Mirin Fader (27:54)

Hopefully, I don't get fired.

Zena Keda (27:55)

No. Maybe a hit, Maybe a hint.

Dave DeFore (27:57)

Hopefully I don't get fired. You. You're not getting fired. We don't have to worry about that.

Mirin Fader (28:03)

Okay. I had. This story is gonna come out near playoffs, so we have to wait on it, but there's a couple stories coming before. But this story that I'm working on, guys, like, you know, I'm a nerd, which is why I connect with Khan so much. I look, books, words, nerds. This story, like, I've been doing this for 13 years. It really is one of the most, like, heartwarming interviews I've ever had. Like, this player that we all see who's so good, has gone through so much, and people really have no idea his backstory. And, oh, my gosh, like, I. When I'm working on it, I'm like, this is work. Like this. How is this work? So I can't wait to share that with you you.

Dave DeFore (28:44)

That's awesome. Everybody go and check that out. Go read the con canipple story. It's you know, it's few days old, a few weeks old. Go and read it. It's worth your time. Mir and Fader thank you so much for hanging out. Thank you Xena as always for being around with me. I'm Dave Defore, this is Ben the NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with us.

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Dave DeFore (30:55)

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

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Com.