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- [00:00]
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- [01:52]
Dan Wieke
Good.
- [01:53]
Esper Heaney
Morning and welcome to the Athletic NBA Daily. We are doing a deep dive on the Los Angeles Lakers with Dan Wieke of the Athletic. Let's get into it. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Dan.
- [02:12]
Dan Wieke
It is so nice to be here.
- [02:13]
Esper Heaney
Dogs barking in the background. We're vi. This is July.
- [02:17]
Dan Wieke
Let's do it. Dogs barking, kids screaming. We might get a Hot Wheels fight in the other room. It's the summer, man. Every time, everybody's. Everybody's itchy. It's a time.
- [02:30]
Esper Heaney
No, it is. It is. And look, we are slowly approaching, if not already there, with the dog days of summer. But in your first couple of months here at the Athletic, the Lakers have kept you busy, to say the least. Is that not true? How is. How has it been for the first couple months for you?
- [02:47]
Dan Wieke
I mean, it's so when I started, you know, intentionally started the week of the draft because you know, I knew there would be news and I wanted to be kind of ready to hit the ground running on stuff. I thought it would make it easier. It hasn't made it easier. I did not anticipate the LeBron opt in slash. Yeah. Sort of like I may be shopping around a little bit. I didn't, you know, I, I was surprised that was as public as it was. You know, I think the, some of the trade conversations and different things. I didn't think I'd be joining the beat like right as the team was sold either. That was like a pretty big shock. It, it was. You know, I had an interesting conversation the other day because, and I mean, I think we'll get into this. I, I still think out of everything sale included, the single biggest piece of Lakers news hasn't happened yet this summer. And it will happen, I believe here the first weekend in August when Luka Dodgy signed some form of an extension with the team. Even, even more so than the sale, that you can have great ownership. It's really great to have it. It's good to have deep pockets. You need great players. And if Luka is the version he was prior to the injury, prior to the trade, and I think there's a good, a pretty good reason to believe that he will be. That's the single most important thing that will happen for the Lakers over the next decade is how this goes on August 3rd. And there's. We can start there. I mean, I think it's going to go well for them. It certainly seems like he is going to sign the extension.
- [04:25]
Esper Heaney
So, so okay, let's, let's start there. Since we've started Luka Doncic, there's obviously when they made the trade, which still baffles me to this day, by the way, and it will baffle me for the rest of my life, honestly, when they made this trade to start the year, everything built up to this moment right here that you're mentioning in that extension and everything that they've done so far, whether it be the free agency signings, we'll get to those in a second with deandre Ayton, Marcus Smart, you know, Jake La Rabias of the world. Everything is built up to this moment and satisfying Luka Doncic. You mentioned the sale of the Lakers as well. And I think it's worth noting that Luka sent out a statement as soon as that sale happened as well, saying, hey, you know, I'm excited for this future, sort of a vouch for what was to come. Is this all. But it's a foregone conclusion that Luka Doncic is going to extend in August at some point.
- [05:22]
Dan Wieke
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that it would be certainly weird to be so actively inviting people to come to a party that you're about to bail on.
- [05:33]
Advertiser 1
Right.
- [05:34]
Dan Wieke
Like, that's a weird move. You know, like, we just hosted a birthday party the other day. If my son didn't show up to his own birthday party, after he invited everybody, people would kind of be like, yeah, yeah, you know, so I. I think, like, look, there have been a lot of really positive signs on the LUCA front from the way the organization has moved in alignment with him and his team, from the way, I think, since the trade, even despite the shock of the trade, like, the way he's embraced Los Angeles and done things in the community to, like, ingratiate himself and also for, like, the good of it, like, whether it be paying for a Kobe mural to be, you know, refurbished. Right. He made a really big Wildfire donation right away after the trade. I think, you know, it's a huge stage. It's a huge opportunity for him. I think he was shook by the trade, you know, like, he didn't see it coming.
- [06:24]
Esper Heaney
No, you could. You could tell from the. The emotion of everything that he had, for sure. Press conference. Yeah, it just.
- [06:31]
Dan Wieke
Yeah, he was carrying baggage.
- [06:33]
Esper Heaney
The. I mean, the. You covered it because obviously you were. You were there watching it all unfold. Has it. Has it sunk in for him? You feel, over the last six or seven months, playing a playoff series and, like, getting acclimated with la, has it really gotten to the point where he feels like a Laker now?
- [06:52]
Dan Wieke
You know, I mean, so when. When he signs the extension, assuming he signs extension, I think it would be a pretty big change of heart if he didn't. Yeah. Yeah. It'll been about six months since the trade. Right. And I think, you know, this was a player who never thought he was going to be traded, who thought he was going to be what Dirk Nowitzki was to the Mavericks. He thought that was going to be his career. Right. Like, and it was pretty well established that it probably, like, if he wanted it to be, it probably would be. And then that changed. Right. And I think he had to deal with. With a lot of emotional fallout from that. Some shame, some humiliation, I think some anger, a lot of anger to have his life uprooted that way, you know, in a way that he didn't seem that interested in uprooting. I think it takes time to then see the positives and whatever's in front of you. And I think he has seen some of those positives. Right. I think the way he's moved, both as a recruiter, but also I just think, like, there's, like, there's a recognition among the people around him that this is, like, a real opportunity, that there's, you know, a way of being sort of a global star in Los Angeles that can, like, scratch a couple inches for him. Like, you know, I've said this before, but, like, you know, Luca loves the spotlight. He loves the stage. He doesn't particularly love the trappings of fame. You know, where's a great place to get to perform and then not worry about being that famous. A place with a ton of other famous people. You know, like, that makes life a little easier. Sorry. A little easier. And that way you can move fairly anonymously as a famous person in Los Angeles. Sort of like built for. For that.
- [08:39]
Esper Heaney
That's a good point. I haven't really even considered that, truthfully, because when there's, like, Ben Affleck and whoever kind of roaming the streets, you know, like, whatever.
- [08:49]
Dan Wieke
Like, if you want to go out to the. If you want to go be restaurant where the paparazzi is at, you can go there. If you want to go to, like, you know, a secluded place, like, there's tons of them. If you want to hire a chef and your Malibu mansion, you can do that. Like, there are options to stay bothered or stay quiet. There are plenty of famous people who aren't in the tabloids in Los Angeles who get left alone. So they want.
- [09:12]
Esper Heaney
And look, the. The, you know, you mentioned the part about him being motivated and angry and kind of dealing with all those emotions. I mean, there. There might not be anything better than a motivated and angry Luka Doncic. We' him in the playoffs before, right? Like, what he's done to playoff teams in the past with the Mavericks should show you what a, like, invigorated version of himself can be. Let's get into some of the transactional stuff that has happened. Okay, so obviously we'll get into LeBron James and the opt in situation, but they resigned Jackson Hayes, incomes Deandre Ayton, Lamar Mark, not lamarcus. Marcus Smart. Jake Laravia. They added a do Theo, their rookie. Out goes Dorian Finney Smith. Out goes Jordan Goodwin. Out goes Trey Jameson, among others. I want to start with Marcus Smart because that's the most recent one. Luca played a big part in recruiting him. You guys spoke to Marcus as well about that. But also, you know, this isn't the same Marcus Smart that won defensive player of the year. You know, there's been some time since then, injuries, being on teams that are not really interested in winnings, particularly Washington, have kind of like derailed his, I guess, reputation in the league a little bit. But he still believes he can be the swing piece. And you wrote about that recently. How do you feel about Marcus Smart being added onto this team? It's weird to see Marcus Smart in a Lakers uniform, first and foremost.
- [10:35]
Dan Wieke
But, yeah, it'll be strange. Is he gonna die his hair purple? Is it gonna be. Is it gonna be gold? Like, you know, I think that's like the thing that I wrote about this in the story and I'm sitting in the press from yesterday. You know, I've seen Marcus Smart, you know, greet Rob Polinka with a hug and like, walk through the building. And, you know, he'd worked out there. Yeah. As a draft prospect. You know, Lakers. He got selected before Lakers take Julius Randall in that draft. You know, I think the thing that, that struck me so I was like, let's just get like, let's just refresh ourselves as to what kind of player Marcus Smart has been. There's like a 22 minute clip on YouTube. It's like Marcus Smart's 36 greatest plays as a Celtic. And it's all stuff you would want to see out of a winning player. True. Boom, boom in a row, diving for loose balls, you know, throwing great passes. And like, honestly, watching it, it's like you see that and you can get excited and then you watch. You just like look around though, as to, like, what's happening around him on the court. And Shay Gilgeous Alexander looks like he's like 13 years old. Jayson Tatum, like, barely has facial hair. You know, Jaylen Brownstone is the flat top. Like, it's. There are constant reminders everywhere of how long ago it's been a while these plays have been made. And, you know, look, it's two years, maybe three, depending on kind of how you feel about his last year with the Celtics. That's an eternity in the NBA. Like, the league turns over really, really quickly. You know, three years ago, the Oklahoma City Thunder weren't the threat they were. You know, three years ago, Victor Weyama was in the league. Like, I mean, just, things change fast. Yeah, I think, I think with the argument for Marcus Smart. Well, one for the Lakers, it's. I mean, it's a really low risk move, right?
- [12:15]
Esper Heaney
Absolutely.
- [12:16]
Dan Wieke
Biannual exception. It cost him Jordan Goodwin. They don't Feel great about that. But a bet they would. A bet they were willing to make. Yeah, I, I think the argument for it is that like, look, you're going to get this guy again highly motivated, you know, aware that he was just paid in part by another team to go play for someone else. You know, like the Moneyball David justice line is like, basically it's happening to him, it's happening to DeAndre.
- [12:40]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [12:41]
Dan Wieke
You know, and both of those guys are entering a free agency where there's a going to be a lot of available money and their ability to get that money is contingent on whether or not they perform. And I think they're, and they're going to be put in situations where they can succeed. You know, I think Marcus Smart, some of the things he does well in terms of like physicality, tenacity, defensive identity, like this team has a void and a need for it. Absolutely.
- [13:05]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [13:05]
Dan Wieke
Whether or not he can check John Morant as he's quick enough still to do that type of play, that kind of defense, you know, I don't know that he was even necessarily before but, but I think like he plays with a certain identity that gives you real value. And if he can be on the court and be healthy, that's a win. Now if he can be on the court and be healthy is pretty big.
- [13:25]
Esper Heaney
Yeah, that's the, that's the ever evolving question with Marcus Smart. I will say when the Grizzlies traded for him three years ago, I thought, and I said to myself, you know, if, if the, if he pairs well with jaw and they have a healthy season, obviously what happened with the Grizzlies was just an injury riddled season. They barely got a chance to see that group together. But if it worked, it would. Smart himself would add a level of lineup versatility to that Grizzlies lineup because he can guard a little bit bigger because he can guard next to John Morant. And I think the idea here is pairing someone who can guard some of the matchups that Luka Doncic would not want to guard on a night to night basis. So to your point, John Morant, that makes sense. You know, the buy in there.
- [14:08]
Dan Wieke
Yeah, yeah. I mean I, I think, you know, it's just like, you know, I mean before the trade it was like, you know, I mean Gabe Vincent's a good defensive player but you know, I think like he hasn't been consistent enough offensively to sort of merit like late game, like get us a stop. Yeah. You know, sort of minutes. Certainly the same for Jared Vanderbilt. You know, Jordan Goodwin, I think gave him good spot minutes. I don't think that Marcus Smart is like going to be a 35 minute a night player on this team. Like, that doesn't seem to be what the role is, right. If, if it is, that means he's played great or things have gone horribly wrong. Like, it's like one, it's going to be one or the other. I, I, I, I do think though, like, as their functionally third guard, you know, who can guard some bigger players, I think, look, he can play with Luca, he can play with Austin Reeves, he can play with LeBron James. Like, there's versatility in that. He knows what it takes to make winning plays. He's played in big games. And I think maybe part of the bet is, you know, we mentioned this with Luca, right? Like, Luca didn't ask to be traded. Marcus Martin has to be traded for Boston.
- [15:12]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [15:13]
Dan Wieke
And there is like, these are real people. There are emotional fallouts to the sip of stuff. And he was dealt a hand over the last two years with injuries, with being in situations where, you know, he might not have chosen for himself. That, you know, now again, he's, he's taken some level of control over his destiny and he's at a place where he's wanted and he's playing with great players on a, on a stage where he'll be seen and showcased. You know, maybe that's enough to reintegrate.
- [15:40]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [15:40]
Dan Wieke
Is that enough for him to play 70 games? I, I don't know. Or 60. I think they would take 60. They would sign up for 60. Right now.
- [15:47]
Esper Heaney
They would sign up for 60. And I honestly, to your point about the minutes, that's probably like, it goes hand in hand. How many minutes he plays versus how many games he ends up playing for them is a question. And also like, he's a winner, man. At the end of the day, you bring in a guy who's high character. Even in his time in Washington, there were moments where it was like he's tutoring up kind of the younger players, giving them pointers. I think that's a guy you want to bring into your organization. Regardless. Want to ask about deandre Ayton, because that is also another guy who theoretically fits on paper, making that bet on himself here with the Lakers, everything. You know, I don't know if you watch Arrested Development, but it's like it hasn't worked for everybody else, but it'll work for us type of thing. I don't know if that applies to DeAndre Aiden I don't feel like that's fair to maybe the. The contextual situations in Phoenix and Portland to what deandre Ayton is as a player and his character and all those type of things that have been talked about ad nauseum. But why do Lakers fans or why should Lakers fans feel Lakers DeAndre Aiden will be different than Blazers or Suns DeAndre?
- [16:50]
Dan Wieke
Well, I mean, I don't think he has to be that different from sons deandre Aiden Fair. Right. Like, like and like, like, I think sons deander Aiden's issues I think came more from like being based on, you know, what I've heard. I wasn't obviously around that team every day. It was like, you know, like that team was like at a little bit of an identity crossroads as to like, who was going to be the most important players or the most important pieces. And there was a real question about whether or not it could be deandre Aiden or somebody else. And I think, look, the. His ability to run pick and roll with Chris Paul, like got them to the NBA Finals. Yeah, right. Like that was a big part of why they played in the NBA Finals. Now, is he Rudy Gobert on the back line? He's absolutely not. And I think he's going to have to be on a team that doesn't have the same sort of perimeter defense as that Suns team. Right. Like, you know, real rangy peak. Mikel Bridges, Chris Paul still being like, just like, you know, super tough and grimy and you know, Booker at times being really like, you know, I think a really capable defender himself like that, that those Phoenix teams could do some stuff on that side of the ball that, you know, maybe this Laker team won't be able to. But look, you're. He's going to run pick and roll with Luka Doncic. Like, Luka Doncic has made way less.
- [18:03]
Esper Heaney
Going to make life very easy on him.
- [18:05]
Dan Wieke
Yeah. Look great. And I think, you know, deandre Aiden's a better athlete, I think, than people realize or remember. I, I have a theory on this. I think he just look, he looks old. He has like an old face.
- [18:20]
Esper Heaney
Oh, it's like the picture of Nate Thurman and he's like 20. This guy's 26 years old, right?
- [18:25]
Dan Wieke
Yeah. Yeah. And so like, I think he just kind of looks like, you know, like the Wilford Brimley line. Right. Like, it's, it's sort of. I think he just look kind of looks like sort of old. And he's not that old. He's 26. And you you can watch like, you know, his athleticism, you know, beat the Clippers in a playoff game. Like the value, like a play at the rim, you know, him with Chris Paul was like, pretty effective. And I think pairing him with, you know, maybe the best pick and roll player and Luka Doncic, like a guy who can create this stuff, by the way, not to mention, you know, LeBron James and Austin Reeves, like, also guys who work really well in those situations and get guys easy buckets. The job should be pretty easy for him, right? Should he be willing to accept it, which is set good screens, roll, roll to the basket, get to the mid range. Like, don't post up a ton. You're not going to get a lot of post ups. Don't shoot a bunch of 18 footers. He's a good 18 foot jump shooter. But you don't have to. Like, it should be pretty easy and like the numbers and the production should just sort of come. And again, really low risk. I think, you know, in talking to people inside the Lakers front office about the way they went about finding a center, getting a player as good as DeAndre8 without having to sacrifice future flexibility or assets, they view it as a huge win. Now it's on everybody else to make it work and to make the talent sort of shine. But like, the talent's there. Like, they didn't have to overpay for, for talent or for fit or for any of that stuff. I think I like, there's gonna be nights where it looks bad and there are gonna be clips where he looks disinterested. But again, like, I mean, what's the difference between him having a good year? I mean, this would be my message to him. And I'm sure this has been communicated to him by Bill Du. His agent is by community. It'll be communicated by the Lakers. What's the difference for him between having a good season and a bad season? Financially? $120 million.
- [20:23]
Esper Heaney
A lot.
- [20:24]
Dan Wieke
Yeah, like, I mean, it's, there's a lot at stake for him. And I think you're getting a talented player at a time when he is experienced and still young and has a ton to lose. And I think, you know, the things that I know about people, like, that's, that's, that's a good time to get your hands on somebody motivated. Yeah. To try and like, you know, and that's, that's going to be the story of this Lakers team. I think in a lot of ways is you have a bunch of people who are motivated for very different reasons. And now the question is if, if you're deandre Ayton, what are you motivated by? Is it getting the ball in the post and having the offense run through you and that you think that's your pathway to a big payday or is it catching laughs from Luka Doncic and like maybe you're the Lakers center for the next three seasons, right. And because you're the same age and you know what I mean? And you get a good, you get a good payday from the Lakers because you've earned it and you're a long term part of this. I think the thing about the Lakers big picture s is that they managed in my opinion to thread this weird little needle and we can talk more about this as we go on where they were able to like keep Luka competitive now, which was important to Luca. Right. It was like he, Luka didn't want to punt a season like that was not, not interested at that, at this stage in his career left a very good Dallas team. He wants to win. He wants to be competitive. The Lakers had limited assets in a roster that wasn't built around Luka Docic. They know that needs to change and that, and that the part of this is going to be a project. So they were able to keep their, their, you know, their books pretty clean moving forwards. They haven't sacrificed assets and, and I think, you know, I think they might be better than they were a year ago.
- [22:06]
Esper Heaney
They are when they are the third.
- [22:08]
Dan Wieke
When they were the three seed.
- [22:09]
Esper Heaney
So, so their talent wise they are absolutely better on paper than they were when they won 50 games last year. Right. And that's a testament to winning around the margins which is something the Lakers had to do with the limited, struggled with.
- [22:26]
Dan Wieke
I mean struggle. Yeah. And we won't, and we won't know if they've won around the margins or not for, until you know, Jordan, if Jordan Goodwin has a better season than Marcus Smart because Marcus Smart is injured. Yes, that's a loss around the margins. Right. But I think like, you know, if I, if I, if I called you on June 20 and said hey, you're going to lose Jorian Finney Smith, but because you are, you have access to the mid level and biennial exception and you get, you know, your starting center in DeAndre Aiden, you get a, you know, a young wing in Jake Arabia and you get a point of attack defender and Marcus Smart like would you, and you don't have to trade any outgoing draft capital. Would you make that trade? Yeah, I love Dorian Finney Smith. Dorian Finney Smith. Awesome dude. Culture is so important to me. He is a culture person.
- [23:16]
Esper Heaney
Big friend of Luka Doncic as well. Right. That that was a part of for sure. For sure.
- [23:20]
Dan Wieke
Guy who can laugh at himself, who can take criticism. Awesome dude to have around. I would trade him for three rotation players. I just would like they needed it.
- [23:28]
Esper Heaney
Yeah, yeah. Depth was something they were missing last year and I mean clearly that's an aspect they wanted to address. And to your point, the flexibility mattered when we come back from the break because I thought you brought up a really good point about flexibility. LeBron James plays a big part into this flexibility. So when we come back, we'll talk about LeBron and what the Lakers might look like next season.
- [23:54]
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- [27:02]
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- [27:48]
Esper Heaney
Listeners. We want to hear from you. Check out the link in the description to give us feedback on on the show, what content you have enjoyed the most and what would you like for us to do differently next season. Again, thank you for all of your continued support. All right folks, we're back. So look we we talked about it a little bit and and just a quick footnote on the the additions last year or this summer. Jake Laravia, big fan of what he can bring to this Lakers team. We talked about lineup versatility with Marcus Smart and Deandre Ayton. There's a world in which Laravia plays a big part in that you think of what him and Rui Hachimura can do offensively off of to Luca and and LeBron and that's where the LeBron question evolves. Obviously he opted into his $52.6 million player option final year of his deal and there's obviously an evolving question about what will happen next to LeBron James and the Lakers. The statement that came out said, you know we're LeBron is looking to remain competitive and you know, be a title contender or be on a title contender moving forward in his career. Is this roster the guys we just talked about and Ayton smart, obviously Luca and Laravia is what the Lakers have done so far enough for LeBron to feel like this is a contender.
- [29:10]
Dan Wieke
I don't want to speak for him on this because I have, I haven't, you know, had that conversation specifically with Rich Paul or with anybody around LeBron. I think, you know, I think. Well, I shouldn't say with anybody around. I think the people that I've spoken to in LeBron about some of this stuff, like, have been like fairly encouraged with. With the summer. You know, I think like, again, they were pretty good last year and they were pretty good under fairly trying circumstances.
- [29:38]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [29:39]
Dan Wieke
You know, their roster completely upended in February when they were playing really good basketball with the lucifer for Anthony Davis trade. I think, you know, their identity really shifted then the way that they had to play off of Luka Doncic. Like, I think both him and Austin Reeves were very like, passive, intentionally passive with Luka to kind of give him as much Runway as possible to be comfortable. They're all three of them are really, really smart players. And I think they felt, you know, I think, and I've heard both of them say it, like they felt like they needed to seed to Luca to say like, this is yours. This is your home now. Be as comfortable as you need to be. I, I kind of think like they can kind of be in the lab now more in training camp, like figuring out ways that works for all of them in a better way. And it'll still be, look, it's still going to be Luca, but like, I think like they didn't know how to play with one another, you know, and it's going to sound like an excuse. And they lost in the first round playoffs. They did. It's real. It happened. They were also the three seed in the West. They won. They were really, really good. When Luca, LeBron Reeves and Rui Autumn.
- [30:53]
Esper Heaney
Are all played small, really, really effective.
- [30:56]
Dan Wieke
And they added again, like a credible starting center, you know, a point of attack guy. Marcus smart again, we'll see on him. But I think the 8 thing is like he's a credible starting center. Yeah. And you know, and they still bring back Jackson. A is a guy who played pretty well as a starting cent. You know, the game, the stakes got a little higher and I think some of his deficiencies were exposed. So I, I think they should feel good about all of that stuff, you know, you get a head coach by the way too, in year two who's had a summer to self audit. And I if, you know JJ Redick, he's been auditing like he's, you know, the word psycho gets thrown around a lot in like a positive way. Like he's a sicko and he's going to look at himself and, and really pick apart his performance and he'll be better in year two than he was in year one. So I think there's real reasons for optimism on that way. Where the is it good enough Question I think probably has more to do with like the Houstons and the Denver's. Right. And the Oklahoma cities of the world than it does specifically with the Lakers. But, but I mean, I'd ask and I think like this, you know, we reported this Joe Varden and I like, I mean the Lakers have not had conversations about trades or buyouts with LeBron. It's, it's just been mostly conjecture created by the statement and the vacuum that surrounded it. Yeah, where's the better situation today?
- [32:17]
Esper Heaney
Yeah, also it's really hard to trade $53 million salary to get wherever.
- [32:24]
Dan Wieke
And the Lakers don't want to take back long money. They don't. Because of future flexibility. I don't believe, I don't believe that LeBron James like wants out so badly that he would risk some level of legacy by like a, like, like you know, leaving money on the table, which has been the antithesis of how he's moved. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, he's a guy who has earned every penny he's made in the NBA and is probably needs more.
- [32:52]
Esper Heaney
Yeah, exactly.
- [32:53]
Dan Wieke
And is underpaid. Right. And still probably underpaid all NBA second team last year. So, you know, I just don't really believe that there's a world where he says I'll take the minimum somewhere. Like I could be wrong. But that just doesn't seem like.
- [33:08]
Esper Heaney
Okay.
- [33:09]
Dan Wieke
It just doesn't seem like how he's moved.
- [33:11]
Esper Heaney
Right. Okay, so follow up question to that. Is LeBron and Luka just scratching the surface? Obviously we don't know how much longer LeBron wants to play. Let's say a year, two years, whatever it is, the number is we don't know. We don't know. But that duo together, even in the short amount of time that they were together, there's a recipe there. The fast break transition play that they had, the outlet passes were clearly there. The offensive chemistry, like while they were still figuring things out, there was a lot there on the table. The Group next to them now is better. The talent around them now is better. Austin Reaves. JJ Redick heading into his second year as a coach. Luka in his prime, just coming off of a finals appearance the year before. I guess I understand prioritizing cap space and future flexibility in order to chase after someone, but we've seen now that like free agency doesn't exist in the same way that it existed maybe four years ago. So what is, what is that big fish? Like who is the guy or who is the person or project or something that they're gunning for two years from now that works better than what they have now, you know, So I don't.
- [34:20]
Dan Wieke
Think it's necessarily two years from now for. Okay, right. I think like having max cap space this upcoming summer when Austin Reeves is on a really tiny cap hold. Right? Yeah, it is valuable. It's not just max cap space to go out and spend a free agency because free agency isn't the type of thing that it's been in the past. Right. Like, it isn't. Everybody mostly extends, you know, unless you're like looking for like super, super max extensions and then like you're trying to like use some leverage or something like that down the road to make sure like the roster is what it is. Yeah, I, I kind of view it more as like, maybe there's. You have that cap space, you'll have some draft picks that you can trade. I'm starting on draft night. They'll have access to three, provided they don't trade a first round pick. What does cap space and three first round picks get you? Like, does that get you pieces or the right kinds of pieces as you start to build this roster out around the Kudan Church, right. You know, assuming you're resigning. Austin Reeves too, like, you know, how does that fit around those two guys in that version? And like, how does LeBron then slot in? You should. You want to keep playing right and there. And I think, I think like, that's the thing, right? It is about flexibility, you know, is there one or two players? I mean, like, sure, like, I mean, they want the same all NBA first team players as everybody else. I'm not going to say names because, like, because it'll get aggregated, but like, yeah, like, of course, you know, do they have enough to get any of them? I don't know that they do, but honestly I don't think they do. But, you know, I think.
- [35:53]
Esper Heaney
But they also didn't have enough to get Luca. And they got Luca. Then they got Luca. That's the, that's the.
- [36:00]
Dan Wieke
I think that's so. I think that's the argument. Right. Is like giving yourself as many possible pathways. Yeah. Around Luca and what comes next. And giving yourself a chance now to get a real look at what it looks like with Austin Reeves, LeBron James, you go into next summer, neither of them are going to be under contract. I mean, assuming Austin Reeves opts out and into free agency, which, if he has a good year, he will do that.
- [36:23]
Esper Heaney
He will absolutely do that. Yeah.
- [36:24]
Dan Wieke
And so, like, you get a. You get a real. A real chance to evaluate. What I think is. The interesting question is sort of like, and this is something I may or may not be working on is sort of like the decision making is about like, you know, pushing in a little bit more now versus like being flexible and sort of those team building decisions that the Lakers have been faced with. Look, they haven't signed anybody for more than two years. Right. Like, that's been intentional. You know, the player options to Marcus Martin, deandre Ayton are both kind of perfunctory. Like they exist. Like, if things go well, neither of those players is opting.
- [37:01]
Esper Heaney
Absolutely.
- [37:01]
Dan Wieke
Yeah. Right. And if things go poorly, those contracts aren't so big that the Lakers couldn't attach draft capital or, you know, wave and stretch. What. Like, whatever. Where you, you can still maneuver around it. I. But I think it's like, you know, where they're at now is like, it is, I don't want to say like a version of two timelines because that, that would make it seem like they're not committed to the now. Yeah. I really think they're trying to accomplish both. And by gambling on these players, on bios, like, and like, first of all, by like these players, like, by teams like even like buying out these guys, which feels like a pretty new trend. Yeah. To do it in the summer before, you know, the apron penalties kick in on stuff and teams can't sign these players. It's given them a fighting chance, I think, at this season, a chance to be competitive around Luka Doncic and like, like the Clippers, like Denver to a lesser degree, like Houston. I mean, like all these teams, like, if Luca is great, if your best player is great, like, are they gonna have a chance? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I think, I don't think that. I don't think there's a doubt. I.
- [38:11]
Esper Heaney
Look, they go as far as he goes and like, he's taken worse teams further in the playoffs before. And there, there is definitely a case for them to say, well, look, we understand how competitive the west is next year. I saw someone yesterday, yesterday say they felt comfortable out about like 13 teams in the west making the playoffs. And that's the world that they live in right now where like obviously the Oklahoma Cities and Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets and Minnesota Timberwolves and Clippers of the world are, are going to be in that conversation. But when you have Luka Doncic, when you have, you're on that conversation, you're, you're thrusted into that conversation. I, I understand them not stacking up to, to that level, but also to your point about them opting into flexibility. Like, that's why they're opting into flexibility. It's, it's, hey, we can still remain competitive now while assessing the market, see how the season falls. And then I just don't even think.
- [39:08]
Dan Wieke
And I just don't even think there's been that much out there for them to be honest. Like when I, when I call around and I talk to other GMs and I talk to other, you know, exacts and personal people on other teams, you know, like, I don't really know what. Like, like the first round pick and their expiring money gets you. Right. It has value. Don't get me wrong, like it has value. But like does I mean, and I'm just like making up a name. This is to be perfectly clear, I'm just like making up a name. Like does trading your expiring money and your first round pick for Miles Bridges, right. Change the. Like and which by the, you know. And does that change the trajectory of your season? Does trading expiry money?
- [39:56]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [39:56]
Dan Wieke
Would it? Does trading expiring money and your first.
- [40:00]
Esper Heaney
Round pick to like Orlando for Wendell Carter, whatever. Something. Sure, sure.
- [40:08]
Dan Wieke
I mean like, you know, like again, if you're eating fraud Wagner. Sure. Like they're not doing that like, and I think they're, they're kind of in this, this in between. The sort of in between place where I think betting on internal growth is like it's both smarter and safer at the same time, you know. And like are they a little risk adverse? Like maybe.
- [40:33]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [40:34]
Dan Wieke
You know, does like would they trade all that stuff. I'll give you like, let's make up even bigger. You all your, your first round pick, your swaps and all your expiring money for like Demonta Savonas?
- [40:44]
Esper Heaney
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's necessary.
- [40:47]
Dan Wieke
I don't think that gets you closer to a title. I don't Think that gets you closer to a title? Like, honestly, I don't. And. And I think what it does is it boxes you in from your next move.
- [40:55]
Esper Heaney
It absolutely does.
- [40:56]
Dan Wieke
And I don't think that they felt like there was something out there this summer that was worth boxing themselves in for. Now it's been a critique of Rob Pelinka that he's not willing to take those swings, you know, and when he has, they've been kind of no brainery, generally speaking. Yeah. With the exception, obviously, being the Russell Westbrook trade. And we can talk about whether was that was Rob or that that was LeBron and that. That side, I mean, whatever. But I think, like, I think that's sort of where they're at on that front as to how to. LeBron factors all. Like, I mean, he has all the control in this still. Right. Like. Right. I mean, he can go to them and say, I don't want to play here. I mean, he's under contract. Right. So he could do that, I guess. I don't believe there's a trade out there that makes any real sense that he would accept that the Lakers would want to make. That a team would want to make back with the Lakers. Like, I just don't see that deal. I don't see LeBron James wanting to be traded in February. Yeah. Like, again, after 23 in year 23 for the first time in your career. Like, yeah, I don't see it happening. It's. I just don't see it happening. But it doesn't mean it can just to be, like, totally crazy.
- [42:08]
Esper Heaney
We've seen crazy stuff happen.
- [42:10]
Dan Wieke
I feel like I have to. I have to put that after, like, after sitting in Madison Square Garden, looking at my phone and saying, wait, the Lakers traded for who? And they traded what? Like, I, Like, I'm prepared for anything. Right. I'm prepared for anything. But history has shown us, right. Like that. I. I think a lot of this comes down to, honestly, with LeBron, is that being in a situation where he wants to make sure that that future flexibility doesn't come at a cost. The cost of being crummy in the short term. He doesn't want to play. And look, I think the Lakers will play high impact, meaningful basketball this year, provided their players are healthy, obviously. But, like, when they step on the court, like, it's. They're going to have, you know, the leading scorer in the league history on the. On the. On their team, they're going to have, you know, a possible MVP in Luka Doncic, like a player of that caliber. And you have a guy entering free agency in Austin, Reeves, who, you know, in last May, before the playoffs, was being talked about as the best third option. Absolutely. Like, those are just facts. And so if that's not competitive enough, I just don't really know where competitive enough is. Right.
- [43:27]
Esper Heaney
Like, what is. What's out there? And you know what? That's. That's entirely fair. It's also a question that has to be determined in October because we have to see how it shakes out. We have to see how these. These guys coalesce and get together and how it all looks on paper versus how it looks on the court will be maybe different, maybe what's expected, maybe what ends up being a really, really good basketball team. Dan, anything else you got for us before we head out of here?
- [43:54]
Dan Wieke
No, I'm just like, I'm so excited to be able to work with you guys on this type of stuff, and to be excited to work with you, to be a part of the team is exciting. It's been, you know, it's been a whirlwind. I think today is like a month on the dot.
- [44:07]
Esper Heaney
Oh, really Nice. There you go.
- [44:09]
Dan Wieke
And one month anniversary.
- [44:11]
Esper Heaney
Yeah.
- [44:12]
Dan Wieke
How about it? Still have a job, which is great after a month. So. No, it's exciting, though. And I think, like, see, like, being able to talk this stuff through with people is fun and interesting because, like, it's complex. I think it's really complex. And I think the last thing I'll say is, like, one of my favorite basketball sayings. I was talking to somebody about this yesterday was Doc Rivers. When I covered him with the Clippers, like, AD like kind of a thing. It was just winning is hard, and it is. And a lot has to happen. A lot has to go. Right. And I think the fun part is trying to, like, see where it could go wrong, you know, and pull up those threads and then hope the stuff like that, you know, you. You can't control sort of breaks your way. And, you know, if I think the pathway is sort of there for the Lakers if a bunch of stuff breaks their way, I just think for some other teams, just less has to go.
- [45:02]
Advertiser 1
Right.
- [45:03]
Esper Heaney
Yeah. And you know what? You know who understands that very, very well? LeBron James. He absolutely understands that concept. Well, just because he's been there, he's done that. He understands how hard it is incredibly hard to win basketball.
- [45:17]
Dan Wieke
People say we have similar basketball minds.
- [45:19]
Esper Heaney
That's. Yeah. Mind the game, part three. I don't know. Think about it, Dan. All right, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you to Dan for joining us here on the NBA Daily. We appreciate you guys as always for tapping in. Enjoy your summers. Get outside. Listen to the NBA Daily. Thank you from myself, Esper Heaney and Dan Wke. We will see you guys later. Take care.
- [45:40]
Dan Wieke
Bye.
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