LaMelo Ball, Kawhi Leonard, Jaylen Brown trade destinations

Summary

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The Athletic NBA Daily – June 25, 2026

Episode Title: LaMelo Ball, Kawhi Leonard, Jaylen Brown trade destinations
Hosts: Dave DuFour and Esfandiar (S)
Theme: Recap and analysis of post-draft developments, major trades, and the latest trade rumors featuring LaMelo Ball, Kawhi Leonard, and Jaylen Brown.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave and S break down the fallout from the NBA draft, discuss the Austin Reaves mega-contract extension with the Lakers, and dive into the swirling trade rumors involving LaMelo Ball, Kawhi Leonard, and Jaylen Brown. The conversations examine team motivations, player fits, the NBA’s evolving trade landscape, and the impact of recent CBA, lottery, and salary cap reforms. This episode offers rapid, insightful recaps with the energetic, knowledgeable banter characteristic of The Athletic’s NBA coverage.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

[03:16] – NBA Draft Fallout

• Draft Trade Frenzy

  • Only the Toronto Raptors’ 50th pick (Jaden Bradley, Arizona) was not traded—a symbol of this year’s wild second round.

    "Day two of the draft in the books last night. Could have been an email. A matter of fact, there was one draft pick that wasn't traded, is that correct S? The 50th pick."
    — Dave [05:22]

• Standout Picks

  • Jaden Bradley (Raptors, 50): Described as a "tenacious guard," similar in style to Jamal Shead.
  • Henry Vasar (USC, slipped to Round 2): Once a projected first-rounder; dropping cost him major NIL money.

    "He cost himself a lot of money by dropping. Like, if he stayed, he would have been able to make twice as much money."
    — S [05:44]

  • Bruce Thornton (31st pick, traded to Houston): Touted for his physical style—a fit for Ime Udoka—potential challenge to Reed Sheppard’s minutes.

    "That guy is going to play for Ime Udoka. I’ll tell you right now, if I’m Reed Sheppard, I’m wondering what’s going to happen in my minutes."
    — Dave [07:26]

• Small Guard Surge

  • Braden Smith (Purdue) to Indiana among other undersized playmakers: labeled as the “Jalen Brunson effect,” though with some skepticism.

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[08:36] – Notable Trades & Contract Dumps

• Isaiah Stewart to Memphis

  • Traded for three second-round picks, but those were picks Detroit originally sent to Memphis—essentially trading him for free, “to create space.”

    "They gave Isaiah Stewart away for free. Really... Isaiah Stewart was an all-Defense member. He got traded away for free."
    — S [09:40]

  • This move embodies current CBA pressures and trade market oddities.

• Austin Reaves’ Max Contract

  • Lakers give Reaves a 4-year, $185 million max, securing him as a key piece alongside Luka Doncic, with LeBron James’ status still pending.

    "Going from undrafted to getting a max contract, that's a pretty cool story."
    — S [11:55]

  • Lakers went all-out: monogrammed pillows, country music, and “maybe” golf clubs.
  • Luka reportedly vetoed any potential inclusion of Reaves in previous trade talks.
  • Reaves viewed as indispensable to Luka; his on-ball ability and knack for drawing fouls take on even greater importance post-injury.

• Lakers’ Next Steps

  • The team must still acquire a new center, but the options in free agency are limited. Mitchell Robinson is considered, but neither host views him as the answer.

    "He is very, very well suited for 20 minutes per game for 60 games a year, plus the playoffs. Like, that's the role for Mitchell Robinson moving forward."
    — S [15:28]

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[20:53] – Trade Rumor Roundup

LaMelo Ball

• Market Heating Up

  • Minnesota Timberwolves & Toronto Raptors named as frontrunners.

    "As we're recording this there is news breaking that there is a trade market for LaMelo Ball and it seems like it's heating up. ... Apparently the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Toronto Raptors are the front runners."
    — Dave [20:53]

• Fit & Trade Structure

  • Raptors have the assets, expiring salaries (RJ Barrett, Brandon Ingram), and motivation to act.
  • LaMelo seen as an “ideal guard” next to Scottie Barnes—size, playmaking, pull-up jumping—matching franchise trajectory.

    "I actually think LaMelo Ball is the perfect guard to pair alongside Scottie Barnes."
    — S [21:32]

  • Wolves' trade more complicated due to limited assets and the improbability of trading Jaden McDaniels.

Kawhi Leonard

• Possible Destinations: Pistons, Raptors, Heat, Spurs
  • After a strong draft, Clippers may be ready to move on; expiring contract increases accessibility.
  • Speculation around a surprising Spurs reunion, though both hosts express skepticism given the franchise history.

    "I just can't believe the San Antonio one … I can't take that seriously because of the way it ended."
    — Dave [24:56]

Jaylen Brown

• On the Block?
  • First included in serious trade rumors for Giannis, which might signal the end of this core’s era.

    "Jaylen Brown being included in tweets and in news reports as being actually offered for Giannis feels like that's just—the bridge has just been, can I..."
    — Dave [27:28]

  • S notes, however, that Jaylen has survived high-profile trade rumors before.

    "He was in rumors for Kevin Durant. He was in rumors for Anthony Davis. They have weathered this storm before."
    — S [27:43]

  • Brown said to be at a career crossroads—validated by a big year, he may seek out a “the guy” role elsewhere (e.g., Portland, Atlanta).
  • Possible swap ideas:
    • Detroit: Jalen Duren for Jaylen Brown, though recent moves complicate that scenario.
    • Cleveland: Evan Mobley comes up, but logjams and role doubts make it unlikely.
    • OKC: Offhand, Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren package suggested—immediately rejected as unrealistic.

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[26:08, 32:01] – The Changing NBA Trade Market

• Flurry of asset-light trades (Isaiah Stewart for seconds, Julius Randle to Brooklyn) rooted in new CBA, tax aprons, and lottery reform.
• Dave critiques unpredictable “parody” (parity) and “irrational behavior” driven by structural changes—with big/surprising trades incentivized by new financial realities.

  "It's promoting what I would say is like irrational behavior from franchises... it condenses things even more, to make it—promoting parity, but..."
  — S [26:37]

• Lottery reform and uncertainty have made distant draft picks suddenly more valuable for rebuilding teams.

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[34:09] – Setting the Star Trade Market

• Upcoming trades for LaMelo, Jaylen, Kawhi could re-set expectations for star return value:

  "It's like they are kind of going to set the market for what a star goes for. They're different levels of stars...but they will set the market in terms of the range."
  — S [34:21]

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[35:07] – Notable Quotes

• "Time heals all wounds as they say. And maybe there’s a chance for Kawhi." — S [25:45]
• "We’re going to learn about what the trade market is now in this new environment." — Dave [34:09]
• "He was sixth in MVP voting this past season. Not talking about some role player." — Dave, on Jaylen Brown [30:21]
• "Weird league. Just a weird league." — S [32:44]
• "The player movement stuff has changed so much in the last decade." — Dave [32:58]
• "Adam Silver did come out and say that they are never going to incentivize losing in the draft lottery again, no matter what changes they make." — Dave [33:37]

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Most Memorable Moments

• Reactions to only one untraded pick in the second round—a sign of league-wide volatility.
• Austin Reaves’ rapid rise celebrated, along with a “country music” contract celebration by the Lakers ([12:09]).
• LaMelo trade sweepstakes building to a crescendo, Raptors and Wolves as “the most fun” destinations ([23:49]).
• Jaylen Brown’s role evolution: the psychology of “second fiddle” and franchise validation ([28:04]).

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Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------| | 03:16 | NBA Draft recap and standout picks | | 08:36 | Isaiah Stewart and contract dump trades | | 11:55 | Austin Reaves' max contract and Lakers moves | | 20:53 | Trade rumors: LaMelo, Kawhi, Jaylen Brown | | 26:08 | Evolving nature of NBA trades | | 32:01 | Market-setting value for stars | | 35:07 | Notable quotes and end-of-episode preview |

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, fast-paced, and candid.
• Hosts blend sharp analysis, inside reporting, and light, playful moments.
• Direct player/team talk, with a mix of skepticism and open-ended speculation.
• Self-deprecating and banter-driven style (e.g., "could have been an email" about the draft, joking about playing old-man basketball).

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Closing

The episode ends with a preview of upcoming free agency coverage with Xena, more trade fallout breakdowns, and acknowledgment of the recent draft live stream’s success. Listeners are reminded to subscribe and stay tuned for more breaking NBA news as the offseason heats up.

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Transcript

[S]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Jack]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Jack]

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for June 25, 2026. I'm Dave DeFore here with EsperaHenney. Coming up, we've got all the fallout from the two days of the NBA draft. Austin Reeves big contract and is Kawhi Leonard going back to San Antonio? Good morning, everybody. What is up, S? How's it going, dude?

[S]

Welcome back, Dave.

[Dave DeFore]

We welcome back, welcome you back. If in case you guys didn't see, s anchored our draft coverage live from Chicago.

[S]

Anchored as in I brought it down. Yes, that's true.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Honestly. Hey, listen, I, I gotta, I'll give you, I'll give you some props here on the air. Number one, great vibes on the show. It was a lot of fun. I learned a lot, which was awesome. CJ Moore was excellent.

[S]

Shout out to CJ and shout out to Zach. They were both.

[Dave DeFore]

Zach Harper's one of the best. But C.J. moore was unfamiliar with your game. He was excellent. I thought some of the behind the scenes stuff that he had to talk about, you know, hooping with Keaton Wagler. Yeah. Kind of fun, right? Like that's, that's a pretty, pretty fun idea. And then I was listening to Slam and Jam and Sam Vicini said he might be the best player at the company, which, I don't know, man. Like, I feel like there's a lot of.

[S]

We got to do an athletic run, man.

[Dave DeFore]

We may have to do it. I gotta tell you, S, after our little group chat conversation the other day about one on one at summer league, I, I, I think I might have to pull the ball out and see if I can just, you know, no

[S]

injuries, you know, no injuries. Of course.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. We're not like, we're just three dribbles. No offensive rebounding, you know, none of that stuff. We're gonna play like old guys.

[S]

Well, you know, James Edwards was talking a lot of smack during the final. We got, I'm just calling out, just,

[Dave DeFore]

hey, like Law Murray, come on. Law S, S says you're, you're Trash like, come on, we'll see you in Vegas.

[S]

That's right. That's right.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[S]

One on one tournament for the Athletic. That would be fun. We could sell it, you know. Sell it folks.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Okay. Day two of the draft in the books last night. Could have been an email. A matter of fact, were there any. There was one draft pick that wasn't traded, is that correct? S the 50th pick.

[S]

It was the Toronto Raptors pick. That was the only one that wasn't traded. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

They do not funny make trades. Yeah, yeah, they. Who did they pick up at 50?

[S]

It was Jaden Bradley, guard out of Arizona, multi year guy. He was basically honestly like a Jamal Shed duplicate in a way that plays almost very similarly. Very tenacious guard. I will say the, the pick of this round for me though would probably be Henry Vasar. Oh yeah, big man out of UFC. He was supposed to be a first round draft pick like in the 20s, of course, but the fact that he dropped and Samvasini actually had something about this as well. But he cost himself a lot of money by dropping. Like if he stayed, he would have been able to make twice as much money.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he was. I think what I saw reported was $5 million in nil money if he would have stayed. But he was projected to be a first rounder. I think a lot of people. And then I was. I heard that he was being steered to Atlanta once he kind of got into that second round and they were trying to get Atlanta to trade up.

[S]

And honestly I think, I think this is a guy that Atlanta could have taken at 23 or 24 or whatever it was that they had their second pick in the first round. They took Zubi Edge. I think a lot of people were questioning that pick because he's sort of duplicative with an there. But with Henry Vasar you have like a seven footer can space the floor for you like this kind of stretch option that they wanted Kristaps Porzingis to be. Now obviously this is the 52nd pick. You don't know if he's going to pan out in any sort of way.

[Jack]

Right.

[S]

But it's an intriguing prospect. A guy who should have been a first rounder ends up as a second rounder. Just intriguing at the very least.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, the most interesting pick to me is Bruce Thornton. The, the 31st pick. The, the first pick of the second round. Houston trades up to get him. He's 6 foot 223 pounds. He's a running back. You, that guy is going to play for he may Odoka. I'll tell you right now, if I'm Reed Shepherd, I'm wondering what's going to happen in my minutes.

[S]

I mean, this is like an Aaron Holiday, you know, kind of like getting that similar guy. Aaron Holiday, also very stout.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[S]

You know, it's like a very similar archetype of a player. Ime Udoka prioritizes those type of guys. There's also a lot of small guards in the second round of this draft. Like Braden Smith, another small guard. He goes to Indiana, Purdue. Guy like all time playmaker at the college level, but just six foot. You know, he's like. And we interviewed him here over at the Athletic, but just generally a smaller player. A lot of small guards in that second round is.

[Dave DeFore]

That is. We're going to call that the Jalen Brunson effect. I. I don't know if we can do that.

[S]

Maybe.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know. If. I don't know.

[Jack]

I.

[Dave DeFore]

Come on. We can't. That. That feels a little crazy.

[S]

I think. I honestly think the, the. The number one thing that happened on the second round.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[S]

Was the fact that Isaiah Stewart got traded.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right. And look, it was a weird trade. So Isaiah Stewart gets traded to the Memphis Grizzlies for three second round picks and you know, I'm thinking to myself, wow, that's. It's not a lot for Isaiah Stewart. It's even less than I thought. S. Because it turns out that the picks were the. They were the Pistons picks that they sent to Memphis on day one of the draft. So really kind of circumvention here. Gave it for free, basically. Gave Isaiah Stewart away for free. Really? They gave him up to move what from. From 21 to 17 is kind of how it works. It's an interesting trade, I will say, from a just personality fit perspective. And maybe this is just because the grit and grind era is just imprinted on my brain when I think about Memphis. Beef Stew might be the most grit and grind guy that's ever been to Memphis. And that includes the guys who were there, you know, Zach Randolph and all those guys like Beef Stewart. That. That is an authentic grit and grind guy.

[S]

Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he's like patient zero for grit and cry. Like he's the number one guy. I will say. I, I kind of like this is concerning to me, CBA wise. I get that the Pistons are trying to shed salary to create space so that they can make a trade eventually, but at the same time, Isaiah Stewart was an all Defense member. He was a guy who was like one of the most important defensive players on one of the best defensive teams last. And he got traded away for free.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[S]

Aaron Wiggins the other day. Because obviously the Thunder up against it as well gets traded for two second round picks. I just, I understand that dumps happen. You know, contract dumps are natural. Teams need to shed salary. That's been as old as time itself. Right. But the fact that Isaiah Stewart only went for three seconds kind of bothers me. I don't know how else to put it other than the fact that it's like it feels wrong that Isaiah Stewart got traded for three seconds. It should be at the very least like a first. Maybe you could argue that swap was the first, but it just, it doesn't make sense to me.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, you've got to clear some space somehow. I mean, they've got the Duran contract that I'm sure that they're going to get done. They are probably.

[S]

They live. They believe in B ball Paul. I will say that's the other part to this. Like they, they have a third string that clearly was really important for them in the playoffs. And I understand that aspect. That's completely fair.

[Dave DeFore]

But I mean, definitely was a B ball Paul trade. But also, I mean, I think that this opens them up. Maybe they hop in on the Miami and Milwaukee deal and maybe they become the third team. They can take Tyler Hero, he's going to be doing extension. They missed out on Austin Reeves who, who got a 4, 4 year, $185 million max contract from the Lakers. They went all out because I think that they saw that he was going to have a market. Detroit, one of the teams that was linked to him. I mean, obviously I think the Bulls probably would have thrown some money his way. Maybe Brooklyn. You know, now that they, these teams now have to sort of compete, at least you got to come up off that money a little bit. Feels like a lot of money.

[S]

It wasn't just $185 million over four years. Shout out my guy, Austin Reeves. I mean, going from undrafted to getting a max contract, that's a pretty cool story. But I will say, do you know the Lakers did even more for Austin Reaves?

[Dave DeFore]

No, I didn't.

[S]

They serenaded him with country music. I swear.

[Dave DeFore]

No, I saw this. And they made, they made monogram pillows for.

[S]

They made AR pillows. They really went all out for this guy. They got him a new pair of golf clubs. I don't know, I'm making that part up. But just they they went all out for their dude.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know if you can do the golf clubs, by the way, because that. Wouldn't that be an improper gift? I think that that would be, you know, that a little bit of salary notes from Ballmer.

[S]

You know, it's all good.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah. So this kind of, this, this look, this locks the Lakers in. This is Luca and Austin Reeves and then whatever they can figure out to throw around him. We're still waiting to figure out what is going to happen with LeBron James. Yep. We heard reporting that, that the. The Cavs would be willing to do maybe Jared Allen for LeBron or. Excuse me, the Lakers would be willing to do LeBron for Jared Allen. Yeah, straight up. Which is. That's an interesting sort of trade. I think that, you know, if the Cavs decide that they're moving on from Jared Allen, I. I don't necessarily know if LeBron is. Is the guy that they're going to be in the mix for.

[S]

Yeah, they probably want someone else. I. I'm fascinated with where LeBron goes and what he decides to do. I mean, he could just decide to retire tomorrow, and that would be the. That would be it. I will say there was some kind of confusion about Austin Reeves's contract and what this means for LeBron. They can still sign LeBron to a max contract if they want. They have Bird rights for both of these guys, so they can go above and beyond if they want to for the guys that they had on their roster. And that includes LeBron James. That includes Austin Reeves. I will also say, look, a max contract, yeah, it's a lot for Austin Reeves, but what else were they supposed to do? Were they just supposed to let him walk or sign and trade him for a worse player? This is a guy that Luka Doncic has vouched for. When the Lakers were trying to get involved in the Giannis antonokounmpo sweepstakes. At the deadline, Luka Doncic reportedly said that he didn't want Austin Reaves included in that deal. I think Luka understands that a player like Austin Reaves is very important to his overall success. It's right. I'm not likening him to Kyrie Irving, but in a similar arm, the same role.

[Dave DeFore]

Right. Like he saw it with Jalen Brunson when. When Brunson was there, and he saw it big time. I think with Kyrie, you know, just someone who can. Who has that sort of handle, that sort of ability to get to the basket, draw. Draw the defense's attention. It it makes his life easier. Somebody's got to be able to eat innings. You know, it's. It's one of the things we were talking about with the Wolves losing Julius Randle, who's going to step into that high volume ball handling role, essentially. And you know, Austin Reeves is. Is good at that. And then he gets to the line too. So he buys you a lot of rest when Luke is off the court, because he does. Yeah, he does have the ability to sort of slow things down that way. You know, the Lakers, obviously, as we were looking ahead next week, you know, free agency opens up on the 30th, like they're going to be a team that is trying to get a deal. They got to get a center. Anybody come to mind that. That, you know, maybe they should be looking out for?

[S]

I mean, Mitchell Robinson is the one that comes up almost immediately.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't think you can do that, man.

[S]

He can't start for you. He. He can't start. And also, like, you're relying on him for 82 games a year is tough. You know, I just.

[Jack]

He.

[S]

He is very, very well suited for 20 minutes per game for 60 games a year, plus the playoffs. Like that's the role for Mitchell Robinson moving forward in his career. That's why it makes so much sense for a team like New York to resign him if they can, but to kind of be this starting level big for you. I don't know if Mitchell Robinson can be the answer for the Lakers also. I'm not sure if there's a big out there in the free agency market. Free agency is kind of not what it was 10 years ago. So I agree they'll probably going to have to do trades, have to shake some things up and get that center. But overall, when it comes to the Austin Reaves deal, they had to do this. He was, I think before he got hurt this season, he was on his way to an all star game. He is an all star level player. When he produces like he does, it's. It's a fine deal for, For a guy that they knew that they had to keep.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk some trade rumors. Jalen Brown, Kawhi Leonard, Lamelo Ball.

[Jack]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[S]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Jack]

foreign

[Dave DeFore]

as we're recording this there is news breaking that there is a trade market for Lamelo Ball and it seems like it's heating up. I if you're listening to this it means he didn't get traded before before midnight last night because you know we didn't have to re record. But the the rumor mill is firing on all cylinders and apparently the the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Toronto Raptors are the front runners to trade for LaMelo Ball. How about that S We we were joking about what the Raptors might give up for Lamelo Ball. You and I were not that long ago. Yeah, I mean what would a trade for Lamelo even look like?

[S]

Man, they they do have a lot of pieces that they can trade. They have all of their first round picks available to them. We were just joking about the fact that they didn't make any second round pick trades. They have all of their second round picks available to them. They have over the last month talk how they need to make a trade. They've kind of It's a self imposed deadline for the Toronto Raptors because RJ Barrett is an expiring salary because Brandon Ingram, even though he has a player option in in a year is basically an expiring salary because he's likely going to opt out of that. They have a lot of salary that they can try and trade alongside those picks and so I actually think Lamelo Ball is the perfect guard to pair alongside Scotty Barnes. There is so much potential to getting a pull up shooter, big playmaker, obviously a very very talented Guy who runs the offense, loves to push it in transition. I think that would be a perfect pairing for where Scotty is at at this point in his career. And you saw what Scotty was able to do in the postseason, kind of proving what kind of player he is. The Raptors want to take a step in the next direction. I think it makes sense for them. And honestly, I think they could outbid the Minnesota Timberwolves because the Timberwolves don't have much to give up now. And I doubt they would want to include Jada McDaniels.

[Dave DeFore]

Right. I don't think Jaden McDaniels would be on the table. Not, not after the way they've been talking about him. You know, in the, in the wake of the Julius Randle move, I can't imagine it's a Rudy Gobert trade that

[S]

would shock me too.

[Dave DeFore]

That would be absolutely shocking and devastating to, to, you know, kind of their core principle of, you know, having a top five, top six defense. So that would be interesting. I'm not sure how they pull this off financially. You know what I mean? Making all the, the numbers work out. But with the Timberwolves, I mean, I think LaMelo Ball would be a pretty good addition next to Anthony Edwards.

[S]

He would look excellent next to.

[Dave DeFore]

He's really good at catch and shoot, so he can play. They can really play next to each other. You talk about positional size and, you know, yes, he's not the best defender, but he is big. He's a pretty good rebounder. And obviously his passing, I mean, frankly, Rudy Gobert would benefit quite a bit playing with LaMelo ball. Having a guy like that in the pick and roll as a lob partner.

[S]

These. If there were two destinations for LaMelo Ball, these are, these are the most fun, right?

[Dave DeFore]

As far as, like, the fact that we're not going to see him have to play some, some different type of role, like he's going to be able to be wide open. And especially, I think Toronto, man, with the way they like to run and those athletes. I mean, you talked about him being perfect with Scotty Barnes, but, you know, if CMB is not in the trade and he's still there, that's a guy who can get out, run and transition with Lamelo. And then the fact that he can draw the defense, I mean, you gotta guard him at 30ft because he's going to take those shots. I think that, that, that would be hugely beneficial. Another guy that seems like the rumor mill is firing up about, especially because the Clippers have done pretty well over the course of the draft the last couple days. Kawhi Leonard, it looks like he may be on the move. You know, we, we talked a little bit about the Pistons. I think they're a team that, you know, when you look at them clearing their books a little bit, moving Isaiah Stewart to Memphis, maybe they get in on Kawhi. I mean, could the Miami Heat find a way to maybe add him to the mix?

[S]

Pretty fun.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. You know, and then there's rumors that Toronto and maybe San Antonio are in on Kawhi Leonard. Now I just can't believe the San Antonio one. Okay. I, I just, I feel that feels far fetched. Maybe, maybe they. Someone said something but I, I can't take that seriously because of the way it ended. And then there's also. There's some fit stuff. I mean, unless it's. I mean it's Dear and Fox going somewhere.

[Jack]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Like you've got. That's a. Not. Not only from a.

[S]

Although if you can find a way to get off of Fox's Kawaii is your four man.

[Dave DeFore]

I know it that it's not. It's very interesting. I just don't see how you do that given the way that, that that relationship ended. Although it's been long enough as like maybe it doesn't matter.

[S]

Yeah, maybe, hey, time heals all wounds as they say. And maybe there's a chance for Kawhi. I. I also don't know if I see it from the Raptors perspective either. I. It's just like they need a guard more than they need another wing. Unless you can convince yourself or the Clippers can convince themselves of like a Brandon Ingram plus picks for Kawhi swap. But why would the Clippers do that? I don't, I don't see.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm honestly, this one is. It's weird. I think that we're entering into a weird era though where, where Isaiah Stewart

[S]

gets traded for three seconds. Yeah, I'm sick.

[Dave DeFore]

But also it's like Julius Randall goes to Brooklyn and that's a move that they do not make a year ago.

[S]

You know.

[Dave DeFore]

Now I don't think Toronto and San Antonio are thinking about the lottery reform stuff, but the downstream benefit or downstream effects of the lottery reform I think

[S]

are spreading apron right. Where like the crunch is coming from up and top. You know, teams that are very, very expensive are trying to get rid of players to get under the second apron and teams that are not good enough to compete and feel like they're going to be in that bottom three of the lottery. Now we're trying to be competitive and it just, it condenses things even more to make it. I mean, we've talked about parody. It is promoting parody, but it's also promoting what I would say is like irrational behavior from franchises. It just, it's bizarre to see some of these trades work the way that they have, but it is what it is. This is the new environment for the NBA. And by the way, the other aspect to this is kind of the. The can is out. The, the worms are out of the can, if you will, whatever that saying is with Jaylen Brown.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, Jaylen Brown being included in, in tweets and in news reports as being actually offered for Giannis feels like that's just. The bridge has just been, can I,

[S]

Can I play the other. Can I play devil's advocate for a second? He was, he was in rumors for Kevin Durant. He was in rumors for Anthony Davis. They have weathered this storm before.

[Dave DeFore]

I think it's just a different time in his career, though. And it was before he started being a twitch streamer. Right. Which does seem to be a major factor in stuff that's happening with JVP

[S]

MVP votes and first team, all NBA votes and things like that. Like, I think he, he clearly this season was validating for himself that he could be a guy and look, that's tantalizing for a player like him to go out and say, hey, I can go and do this in a different franchise and maybe the way people view me will be different than how I'm viewed in Boston as sort of this second fiddle to Tatum. I go to Portland, I go to Atlanta, I go somewhere else. And now I'm viewed as the guy, I'm respected in that way. Very similar, but in a different way to how James Harden went from OKC to Houston and obviously turned into an MVP candidate. Harden is a much better player at that point, peak wise than Jalen Brown is right now. But the mindset is the same. It's like, I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to bet on me being a better player than people think I am. Where do you think he goes? Do you think he gets traded? I don't know.

[Dave DeFore]

It feels like he's going to, but you never know. I think if you're Boston, you're looking at Jalen Brown and saying this is probably the most valuable he's going to be the rest of his career. When you consider his age and just, you know, the season that he Just had. I do think that if you were going to sell, you're selling high right now. Not that this is a good thing. I mean, if you don't get a guy like Giannis back, you're taking a step back, period. If you're Boston and so you're looking to make maybe more of an asset trade where it's like you're getting a couple of guys and maybe they're young guys. I don't know if there's a high impact big man that's available that you can get that, that moves the needle enough to move Jalen Brown, if that makes sense. I know that they were. There were rumors that Boston might be able to snag Rudy Gobert because, you know, it feels like, you know, that that's not over yet in Minnesota, but it's, it's getting close. Probably got a year left, but I just don't know if that's enough if I'm Boston, you know, I mean, Rudy is, is fantastic. But to give up Jaylen Brown in that shot creation and I mean, frankly, like his two way play, I think it's just, it's too valuable. Again, he was sixth in MVP voting this past season. This is not, you know, we're not talking about some role player.

[S]

I, I also, I'm just looking at the teams in the NBA. I, I don't see a Big that is available. Like.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[S]

Unless it's. This is just off the cuff.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[S]

Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[S]

Sign and trade Jalen Duran for Jalen Brown. The Jalens getting traded for one another.

[Dave DeFore]

That's interesting. I, I don't know. I mean, I guess if, if you're the Pistons and you were thinking about doing that, you probably don't give away Isaiah Stewart for free.

[S]

Sure.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Yeah. But I, but, but that's what I'm saying.

[S]

It's like they need a young big that they can kind of grow and mold and maybe gives them a different thing stylistically than they've looked for in their bigs in the past. Like Evan Mobley would be interesting. Although I think that ship has sailed. I don't know.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[S]

I'm not sure how available bigs.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, I'm not sure how the Cavs would, would be able to pull off having Donovan, Mitchell, James Harden and Jalen Brown if they were to move Evan Mobley. I, I just, I mean, maybe Jalen is your three there, but I just think he needs to have the ball in his hands a little bit more. And when you've got Mitchell and, and Harden it feels like not enough basketballs to go around. I know that we've said that about a lot of teams and they figured it out, but that's, that's a scenario with those three guys in particular that

[S]

I do think just to anger, anger the Thunder fans at home.

[Dave DeFore]

Chat home run for Jalen Chad and J Dub for Jalen Brown. Chat J Dub and multiple first round picks. No, you're crazy. I, I, look, we're at, we're at a point where these guys, I mean, I, I think that obviously. Let's just talk about the guys that we're, we're talking the rumors on.

[Jack]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Lamelo, Jalen and Kawhi. Like Kawhi probably is going to be the easiest to get. He's expiring contract. Yes. You're going to have to pay him.

[S]

But you know the Hornets are selling high on, on Lamelo and same with

[Dave DeFore]

Jalen in Boston, right?

[S]

Yeah. And honestly, like Kawhi had a good

[Dave DeFore]

season all NBA last season and, and maybe, you know, if the Clippers had had a better season, he put up the kind of numbers and really had the kind of dominance when he played that this is a guy that we may be saying is sniffing MVP talk, you know. Yeah, I, I don't know. It's, it's. I think this is going to be a pretty disruptive couple days. Hopefully not a disruptive few next few hours.

[S]

So that this, please, I will say weird league. Just a weird league.

[Dave DeFore]

It's gotten weirder. S. I mean, look, this is my tenth, this is my tenth season. All right.

[S]

In a good way, by the way. Shout out to our folks at the NBA.

[Dave DeFore]

But it's just, you know, the player movement stuff has changed, has changed so much in the last decade. Right. You think about it 10 years ago, that's when KD goes to the warriors, right. The big signing, you know, free agent signing, free agency kind of gets killed from that. You know, the down the downstream of Kevin Durant signing with the Warriors. You kill free agency. I think lottery reform is really going to mess up the trade market because who even knows what, what picks are worth right now and what, how long this, this reform is going to last. It feels like those 20, 30, 2031 picks are pretty valuable right now.

[S]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Because maybe we revert back to the old, old style of doing it. I don't know. Adam Silver did come out and say that they are never going to incentivize losing in the draft lottery again, no matter what changes they make. So, you know, that's kind of interesting, I think. I mean, that's pretty declarative for a guy that usually kind of beats around the bush on some of this stuff. So, you know, I don't know what to make of that. The. The trade market's very weird. I think we're going to learn about what the trade market is now.

[S]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

In this new environment, the Yanis trade, you. You maybe have to throw that out the window. It's such a unique situation. It's almost like the Desmond Bain trade where the Magic through first four firsts, it doesn't really mean a lot.

[S]

But even in the Giannis trade. And look, I agree with you, timing wise, that was different because if the Bucks had traded him a year ago, maybe the value is different, the players are different in that trade, but that's not the value Giannis would go for regularly. Like there would be a blue chip prospect going the other way and that that didn't happen. I also would be curious, you know, as we're talking about Lamelo and Jaylen Brown and Kawhi, it's like they are kind of going to set the market for what a star goes for. They're different levels of stars. Right. They're different tiers, but they will set the market in terms of the range. Jalen Brown, all NBA player. Kawhi, all NBA player. Lamelo, like all star, slash, all NBA player. What is the value of these guys? I think that'll set the tone.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. I mean, listen, the thing with Lamelo is I could completely understand a franchise saying, hey, we just had this great run. He looks great. We absolutely do not want to give him his next contract. Yeah, I get it. Makes sense. Okay, well, we're going to have a big free agency preview coming out next Monday. Me, s and Xena, we're going to go as deep as we can on. On free agency, even though it's not a great free agency class. You know, we'll probably have lots to say about LeBron James, although that could all be settled by the time we get to Monday. We're keeping an eye on the trade market. Going to get Law Murray to come through here tomorrow. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the stuff the Clippers have done and just, you know, his general take on on the league. You know, he does player tiers and he's doing power rankings and there's not a lot of guys that we've got that are as plugged in around the NBA especially.

[S]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

With these roster moves and the way that they're going to affect next season as Law Murray so look forward to that. More to come from us guys. Appreciate you guys hanging out. And again squad crushed crushed the draft live stream. So much fun and if you guys didn't watch it, go watch it. Super informative. I learned a ton about all the guys in the first round. Again CJ had all the stories. Yeah yeah CJ was awesome. Thanks to CJ Moore, thanks to Zach Harper for for joining the show and and really helping us out. It was a huge, huge success. So want to definitely thank those guys that's going to do it for the show folks. For Esperahenny, I'm Dave Dufour, this is Ben the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us. The 2026 FIFA World cup meal at

[Jack]

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