Mavs Get Cooper Flagg, Tatum Injured + Where Will Giannis Go?

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Mavs Get Cooper Flagg, Tatum Injured + Where Will Giannis Go?

Release Date: May 13, 2025

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Introduction and Overview

In this episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, hosts Noah Chestnut, Christian Clark, and Anthony Slater delve into a whirlwind of NBA events, including the unexpected Dallas Mavericks landing Cooper Flag in the draft lottery, a significant injury to Boston Celtics star Jason Tatum, and the ongoing speculation surrounding Giannis Antetokounmpo’s potential trade destination. The discussion also covers the intense Warriors vs. Timberwolves playoff series, providing listeners with a comprehensive recap of the most pressing stories in professional basketball.

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1. Chaotic Draft Lottery and the Mavericks' Victory

The episode opens with Noah Chestnut expressing excitement over the draft lottery results, highlighting the Dallas Mavericks’ improbable victory.

Noah Chestnut [02:23]: "The Dallas Mavericks have had a roller coaster season. Christian Clark covers them for us. Christian, you have had a roller coaster season. First of all, congratulations on the baby. That's great news. And congratulations on the Dallas Mavericks winning the lottery in spite of only a 1.8% chance. How do you feel?"

Christian Clark responds with a mix of personal updates and professional insights:

Christian Clark [19:09]: "Everybody is going to be in their conspiracy theory bag right now because of what the last six Mavericks basketball has been, right? The Luka Dončić trade coming into it, the Anthony Davis injury that kind of opened the opportunity for the Mavericks to, quote, unquote, tank."

Discussion Points:

• Lottery Fairness: Christian and Noah discuss the implications of the flattened lottery odds, suggesting that traditional tanking strategies are becoming obsolete.

  Christian Clark [05:07]: "They bless in mysterious ways, man. There is no right or wrong in the universe."

• Potential Picks: The conversation shifts to the top draft prospects, notably Cooper Flag, Dylan Harper, Vijay Edgecomb, and Ace Bailey. The hosts speculate on whether teams like the Mavericks will draft Flag or consider trading their pick.

  Christian Clark [07:16]: "The presumptive number one and number two is Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper."

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2. Giannis Antetokounmpo Trade Speculation

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the ongoing rumors about Giannis Antetokounmpo’s interest in exploring trade options. The hosts analyze potential destinations and the impact on various franchises.

Noah Chestnut [04:26]: "Victor Wembanyama is there. They have Dear and Fox."

Key Insights:

• San Antonio Spurs as a Top Destination: The Spurs, having secured the second overall pick, are highlighted as a prime candidate to pair Giannis with their burgeoning talent pool, including Victor Wembanyama.

  Christian Clark [05:47]: "If you're Giannis Antetokounmpo heading into the second half of your career than Victor Wembanyama, I think it's a perfect pairing."

• Impact on Other Teams: The discussion touches on how teams like the Philadelphia 76ers and the Utah Jazz fit into the Giannis trade scenario, questioning the feasibility and strategic benefits.

  Christian Clark [22:56]: "If you are the Mavericks. Look, this would have been a different conversation if it was the Nets or the Jazz or the Wizards who are all losers in this lottery tonight."

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3. Boston Celtics: Jason Tatum’s Injury and Playoff Implications

The episode takes a somber turn as Noah Chestnut reports on a significant injury to Boston Celtics' star Jason Tatum during the playoffs.

Noah Chestnut [10:03]: "Jason Tatum goes down with an injury that we have just seen too often, but none of us are willing to go out and say what it is until we get some confirmation."

Key Points:

• Injury Details: Tatum suffered a lower leg injury, likely sidelining him for the remainder of the series and possibly the playoffs.

  Christian Clark [10:57]: "He does it on both ends of the floor, which you know, is important to Nico Harrison."

• Celtics’ Performance Without Tatum: The hosts discuss the Celtics’ struggles without their star player, emphasizing the Knicks’ ability to capitalize on Boston’s weakened state.

  Noah Chestnut [12:11]: "Tatum was the only guy for Boston that was able to get going."

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4. Knicks vs. Celtics: A Breakdown of the Crucial Game

The Celtics' loss to the Knicks is analyzed in detail, highlighting key performances and strategic shifts.

Christian Clark [13:37]: "A legit gym rat. Not just the joke."

Highlights:

• Knicks’ Key Players: Jalen Brunson’s impressive 39-point game and the balanced offensive contributions from players like Mikhail Bridges, OG Anunoby, and Karl-Anthony Towns are spotlighted.

  Noah Chestnut [14:18]: "They get a 31 lead, looking like no Tatum, Nick's Pacers."

• Celtics’ Offensive Output: The discussion underscores the Celtics’ dependency on Tatum, who was the main threat in the game.

  Christian Clark [14:26]: "Three-four had 105 of their 121 points tonight. Just absurd offensive output."

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5. Warriors vs. Timberwolves: Series Analysis

The hosts transition to the Western Conference, focusing on the Warriors’ struggles against the Timberwolves in their playoff series.

Noah Chestnut [30:32]: "So looking at this team, okay, they were in the finals less than a year ago. This time last year, they trade a generational star. Surprisingly now they've gotten the number one pick in draft."

Key Insights:

• Warriors’ Offensive Challenges: The Warriors’ difficulty in scoring, exacerbated by Steph Curry’s hamstring injury, is a major topic.

  Dave [31:08]: "They can't score. You know, they first three games of the series under a hundred points."

• Timberwolves’ Resilience: Anthony Edwards’ standout performance and the Timberwolves’ ability to adapt without Curry are praised.

  Noah Chestnut [34:17]: "It shows flashes. So I definitely would be interested."

• Future of the Warriors: Discussions revolve around the Warriors’ potential moves during the offseason to solidify their roster and address Steph Curry’s age.

  Dave [35:00]: "It's gonna be tough conversations. Restrictive free agencies, obviously more team friendly."

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6. Future Predictions and Finals Outlook

The episode concludes with speculative predictions about the remainder of the playoffs and potential Finals matchups.

Dave [39:03]: "Sure. Thunder, are we here?"

Highlights:

• Thunder as Favorites: Predictions lean towards the Oklahoma City Thunder advancing and potentially facing the Denver Nuggets in the Finals.

  Noah Chestnut [40:10]: "Yeah. I mean they checked all the boxes in the regular season, but they still got to get through Jokic."

• Warriors’ Future: The Warriors’ prospects are discussed in the context of their aging core and necessary adjustments.

  Dave [34:54]: "But I do think there'll be sign and trade type scenarios also explored."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily offers an in-depth analysis of the NBA’s current landscape, touching on the unpredictability of the draft lottery, the ramifications of key injuries, and the ever-evolving dynamics of player trades. With insightful commentary from hosts Noah Chestnut, Christian Clark, and Anthony Slater, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the factors shaping the future of the league.

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Notable Quotes:

• Christian Clark [05:07]: "They bless in mysterious ways, man. There is no right or wrong in the universe."

• Noah Chestnut [10:03]: "Jason Tatum goes down with an injury that we have just seen too often."

• Christian Clark [14:26]: "Three-four had 105 of their 121 points tonight. Just absurd offensive output."

• Noah Chestnut [30:32]: "They were in the finals less than a year ago. This time last year, they trade a generational star."

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Key Takeaways:

• The Dallas Mavericks’ unexpected draft lottery win could significantly impact their roster strategy, especially with the addition of Cooper Flag.
• Jason Tatum’s injury poses a substantial challenge for the Boston Celtics’ postseason aspirations.
• Giannis Antetokounmpo’s potential trade remains a hot topic, with the San Antonio Spurs emerging as a likely destination.
• The Warriors’ playoff series loss to the Timberwolves underscores the importance of depth and health in championship contention.
• Future playoff matchups and Finals predictions suggest a dynamic and unpredictable end to the NBA season.

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For a deeper dive into these topics and more, tune into The Athletic NBA Daily every weekday on Acast.

Transcript

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[Noah Chestnut]

Hey, it's Noah Chestnut from the Athletic.

[Christian Clark]

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You tell me the common thread. Ready? Game, Match point, Set.

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This one's kind of a gimme. The answer is how tennis is scored.

[Noah Chestnut]

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[Noah Chestnut]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, draft lottery was chaotic. Jason Tatum went down, The Knicks went up 31 and the warriors lose to drop to 31 against the Wolves. So we got Anthony Slater here to talk about that. Good morning everybody. Good morning. S Another chaotic.

[Christian Clark]

Oh my God.

[Noah Chestnut]

Chaotic night.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah, I mean, look, this is the NBA. I feel like the Jimmy Butler meme of him being tired during the NBA bubble just because of how much that's happened over the last 24 hours.

[Noah Chestnut]

I feel like we jinxed Monday by saying that the second round had been a little bit of a letdown because of injuries, you know, continued actually last night. But before we get to that, we got to talk about the draft lottery. Obviously the, the shocking news. First of all, I wanted to thank everybody who hung out on the Slam and Jam lottery live jam session. I think I'm just going to call it that. We. I just made that up on the spot over on our YouTube. Andrew select and Alex Spears, who host Slam and Jam, you know, they cover the draft for us. So they did a really good job. It was a lot of fun. I hung out in the chat. So thank you guys if you were there for that. Don't forget Wednesday morning we're going to do another one of those shoot arounds. That's at noon Eastern, 9 Pacific. So we're gonna have a live stream and. And we dropped that in the feed last week. So if you enjoyed that, you know, bit of a 35,000foot view.

[Christian Clark]

Come hang out with us.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah, come hang out. Or you know, catch it in the feed, but give us some feedback. Let us know if you like that. But anyway, lots of stuff to get to. Okay. Massive back to the. Back to the actual lottery. The winners of the lottery and I mean this is just a shocking development. The Dallas Mavericks, as you probably know by now, win the lottery. S. I know that your Raptors, you were hopeful, but certainly this is, this is at least the more entertaining outcome.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah, look, the Raptors are not the only losers in this draft. I think a lot of the tankers are losers in this draft. You think about the Washington Wizards, the New Orleans Pelicans, the Utah Jazz, the Brooklyn Nets, all of these teams that especially towards the end of the season were methodically trying to lose, lost out flattened lottery odds. More even lottery odds have helped some of these other teams with lower chances to get opportunities to land the number one pick. And somehow in a weird basketball gods type of way, although, you know, it just, it doesn't make sense how the basketball gods work in this scenario.

[Noah Chestnut]

They bless in mysterious ways, man. There is no right or wrong in the universe. You know, you can make the worst trade ever and you can land, you know, maybe a generational prospect. The number two pick goes to San Antonio. Again, the rich get richer here when it comes to a team that has a ton of prospects, you know, Stefan Castle wins rookie of the year, obviously Victor Wimanyama is there. They have dear and Fox. Yeah, you got to think, man, that number two Pick. Now that Giannis is saying, maybe I want to go play elsewhere, you've got Brian Windhurst on TV saying, watch San Antonio. I don't know. It's a little bit more fuel to that fire.

[Christian Clark]

It's just funny that the timing for this worked out that way. Right. Where in the morning we got the Giannis news. Hey, Giannis is open to destinations. He hasn't fully come out and said it. It's more of a soft launch of a trade request, but it's here at this point. And then the San Antonio spurs get the second pick and you think of obviously the assets that you mentioned and what they can offer. What better player to hit your wagon to? If you're Giannis Antonokounmpo heading into the second half of your career than Victor Wembanyama, I think it's a perfect pairing. I think you can build around that beautifully on both ends. And it makes sense for the spurs right now, who are in a weird spot in terms of being competitive and can feel the playoff roster next year, but also have the number two overall pick to play with. Same thing kind of goes with the number three pick and the Philadelphia 76ers. Right.

[Noah Chestnut]

The Sixers sort of. I mean, this, this doesn't make it all worth it, but it certainly helps to, to ease the pain a little bit. Jared McCain was good luck for them. He goes there. They get the number three pick after the just snake bitten season that they had. So now, you know, when you look at the, the Sixers, like, what do you think they're going to do? I mean, obviously I think the first thing on the agenda is figure out do we stick with Paul George or do we think about moving him? But other than that, I don't know. Like, is this a pick that you see them taking?

[Christian Clark]

Yeah, I mean, look, the.

[Dave]

It.

[Christian Clark]

The presumptive number one and number two is Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper.

[Dave]

Right?

[Noah Chestnut]

Right.

[Christian Clark]

But number three is kind of wide open. A lot of people are saying Vijay Edgecomb or Ace Bailey, two who are on a different tier than Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper to that point. I think the Sixers might be open to trading down. Like that would be an interesting thing for them to do. Instead of picking at 3, pick at 10 and maybe get someone from the Rockets or someone that can help them long term to play with the six.

[Noah Chestnut]

I don't know.

[Christian Clark]

It's interesting to think of.

[Noah Chestnut]

See, that's the thing that, that's the thing that happens when you say there's two players in the draft nobody wants the third pick.

[Christian Clark]

Right, that's true. That's true.

[Noah Chestnut]

What do you go?

[Christian Clark]

Unless you love a guy. Right. Unless you've fallen in love with someone that you see.

[Anthony Slater]

Right?

[Christian Clark]

Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

And we gotta say again, you mentioned the teams that, that had poor luck. I mean, Utah, Washington, Brooklyn. Brutal, awful, awful seasons. Utah Jazz just wasted a year, essentially.

[Christian Clark]

And they probably will waste another one next year.

[Noah Chestnut]

They have to. Right? Like, where's the talent on their, on their squad? Where's the path to finding more talent or bringing it in? You know, you. They're not even going to be in the mix for like Giannis, right?

[Christian Clark]

Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

Because just the realities of the NBA just has to be a disappointment. I mean, this is why I do think that the flattened lottery odds have now made it so that tanking, outright tanking, just, just tearing it down really makes no sense. So just feel the competitive, fun team. I mean, I will give Brooklyn credit. Like, in spite of trying to tank, like that team never quit, never stopped. Well, coach played hard, but yeah, the tanking. Tanking's dead, right?

[Christian Clark]

Tanking is dead. And I think the lottery odds are an interesting aspect of it. I also think the play in plays a part here because teams feel like they have an opportunity to make the playoffs, earn some ticket and gate revenue, but also try to give their young team some experience. And you think of the Eastern Conference now and there's going to be some big implications for the east next season with another thing we talk about in this show, but you think of the Eastern Conference and there's a real opportunity there for a couple of these teams to make a leap. Right. If Washington gets the right guys and builds correctly, if Toronto obviously built with Brandon Ingram and Scotty Barnes, there's a world in which those teams start to take that next step and look like a play in or playoff team. And so tanking the incentive isn't really there anymore to tank outright.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah. And I also, I hope more teams than just the couple that we've, that we, that we've mentioned and that we keep hearing mentioned get in the mix for Giannis. But it does seem like, I mean, he wants to go somewhere and play with some good players, which you could.

[Christian Clark]

You could make the argument for all 29 teams, right? Well, because everyone should want it, right?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Christian Clark]

And, and there's, there's basically a package out there for any team to make. It's just about what Giannis wants also, which is another thing that's going to play a factor here.

[Noah Chestnut]

All right. The Celtics had a rough night. They, they Lose to the Knicks 121, 113. But the worst news, and I want to start here, is Jason Tatum. He goes down with an injury that we have just seen too often, but none of us are willing to go out and say what it is until we get some confirmation. The. The Celtics called it a lower leg injury. He's going to get an mri, but it does look like from the way that he left, we're not going to see him for. For the rest of this series, certainly, and definitely the rest of the playoffs. We're not going to speculate because we're not doctors, but it was rough.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah, it was really rough. And it was rough. Given the conversation around Jason Tatum the last couple weeks. He needs to show up. He needs to have a moment. And he was having that moment in this game, a master class of a game. Put up 42 points in 40 minutes, was surgical, was knocking down his shots. Was basically the only guy on the Celtics that was really giving them a chance in this game, especially in the first half. He was the reason for them getting out to a lead. And to see him go down like that, be wheeled off, you know, in the locker room, gutted. You're absolutely gutted for a player like Jason Tatum, who, by the way, Dave, we've talked about this. He never misses games, never gets hurt. So now you're looking at a guy who might be out long term, potentially, we don't know.

[Noah Chestnut]

Right.

[Christian Clark]

But that's just devastating for a guy who constantly plays through injuries. Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

And look, I mean, we'll get it. We got plenty of time to talk about this stuff this summer. But the fallout from this, if he. If he is going to be out, is. Is massive for a team that was probably looking to make some changes anyway. Yeah, but to the game. Look, the Knicks won this game and they had this game locked up before Tatum went down.

[Christian Clark]

Absolutely.

[Noah Chestnut]

Tatum was only guy for Boston that was able to get going. You mentioned 42 points. You know, Jaylen Brown winds up with 20. But it was a bad Jalen Brown game. It was. You know, Porzingis has been non existent. I want to give the Knicks a ton of credit. I think the Knicks have just, you know, I mentioned to you early on, I thought their defense looked slow when the shots were dropping for. For the, for the Celtics in the first half. But they came out in the second half. I thought they had a little bit more energy. They were guarding just better. And it helped that the Celtics just poor decisions down the stretch. But the Knicks capitalized On them, I'm.

[Christian Clark]

Really proud of Carl Anthony Townsend, Jalen Brunson, because they've been forced to play in isolation and guard in isolation more often. And they've been holding their own, right. Like there are multiple possessions you see in the series where, you know, Tatum or Brown or whoever is trying to hunt out these guys and they're holding their own. Now credit the wingstop trio of Mikael Bridges and OG and Josh Hart who are pinching in and like putting their hands and getting, getting involved with deflections and whatnot. But like, to those guys credit, they're actually guarding, they're actually trying. And that's such a huge part of defense, especially when you have the offensive burden that those two have. And Jalen was surgical in the third quarter, massive. I mean, 18 points in that third. He was going shot for shot with Tatum and that's what helped him kind of get into that lead. And then Bridges in the fourth with some huge shot making too.

[Noah Chestnut]

The third was funny. It's one of the reasons why I love basketball. Right. Like you have this guy in Jason Tatum, the momentum.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

Looks like he's built in a lab to play basketball. And you have Jalen Brunson on the other end, right. Looks like just a guy who plays up at 24 Hour Fitness and just giving him, like, giving him business. And it's amazing to watch, right? Like you just get sucked into it. But here we are in the playoffs. Jalen Brunson, small guard, you can't win with them, but somehow the Knicks keep winning and he puts up 39 points. But they got, again, they got offensive contributions from everybody. Yeah, this is what they've been missing, right? They get 23 from Mikhail, 20 from OG, 23 from Carl Anthony Towns.

[Christian Clark]

You know, look, Three Four had 105 of their 121 points tonight. Just absurd offensive output.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah, they got a 31 lead.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

Looking like no Tatum, Nick's Pacers. Like, if I.

[Christian Clark]

How do you feel? How do you feel about Nick's Pacers?

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah, I was gonna say, if I had told you we would be sitting with two series, you know, in and it was three one, would you have guessed that it would be the Knicks and the Pacers? I mean, this is.

[Christian Clark]

No, and this is why, if you're.

[Noah Chestnut]

The spurs and you can make the trade and get Giannis, you make the trade and get Giannis. It really. There are no perfect teams right now. There's so much parity.

[Christian Clark]

I mean, look, you've met, you've mentioned this, that this is like the Parody era. And if you have an opportunity on any given season to give yourself even a 10% more chance at winning a championship, you do that. And Giannis is more than a 10% chance. Giannis is he elevates the spurs to a different level, contender wise. If the Rockets go after him, he's the missing piece for them. Basically is the equation for a lot of these teams. And then when it comes to the Knicks and Pacers, you got your 90s back. You got back, right?

[Noah Chestnut]

I'm, I'm excited about that. Although I think we're going to get some pretty high scoring games. It seems like the Western conference has the 90s scores now and the east, it's like they they flip flop for for the era guys. Stick around after the break. We got Christian Clark, who covers the Dallas Mavericks for us at the Athletic, with his initial reaction we recorded right after the lottery his initial reaction to not only being exhausted from life, but also to the Mavs winning the lottery.

[Dave]

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[Noah Chestnut]

The Dallas Mavericks have had a roller coaster season. Christian Clark covers them for us. Christian, you have had a roller coaster season. First of all, congratulations on the baby. That's great news. And congratulations on the Dallas Mavericks winning the lottery in spite of only a 1.8% chance. How do you feel?

[Anthony Slater]

There is, there's a lot going on at the Clark household right now. A lot going on personally, a lot going on with this team. I mean, look, maybe this, this helps. Maybe this goes a long way towards this incense fan base. I mean, I was just dreading having to cover this team at the start of next season here in the fire, Nico stuff. Just dealing with anger from like day one of next season. And, and maybe, just maybe this helps with that.

[Noah Chestnut]

It's going to be higher, Nico, now. Yeah, it's going to be a good luck charm here.

[Christian Clark]

All right, look, I mean, there, everybody is going to be in their conspiracy theory bag right now because of what the last six Mavericks basketball has been, right? The Luka Doncha trade coming into it, the Anthony Davis injury that kind of opened the opportunity for the Mavericks to, quote, unquote, tank. And they find themselves in a situation where they have 1.8% chance at Cooper Flag and they do it. Now that you look forward, what's next for this team? Do they just draft Cooper? Do they just say, hey, we're taking Cooper Flag, or do they open up the possibility of potentially trading this pick?

[Anthony Slater]

You know, I feel like that's at least a legitimate question. Do, do they move this pick? Because, I mean, if you look at Milwaukee, it's like, hey, Cooper flag, you know, under team control for, for seven or eight years. Like, that's got to be, that's got to be attractive. I think if I had to Make a prediction today. I think the Mavericks just make this pick. I think Cooper Flag is good enough to contribute to winning right away. I mean, and he, you know, he does it on both ends of the floor, which you know, is important to Nico Harrison.

[Christian Clark]

Defense.

[Anthony Slater]

Defense wins championships. I mean, Cooper Flag, like dog, two way player, gets after a defense, plays hard. Like he definitely, he seems like a Nico Harrison Mavericks player to me.

[Noah Chestnut]

A legit gym rat. Not just the joke.

[Anthony Slater]

I mean, he seems like, he seems like a Nico Harrison guy except for one thing. The new Balance.

[Noah Chestnut]

New balance. I was gonna ask you, I was like, this is the new balance thing gonna be an issue? I mean, what can, can he, is he going to play the five, you know, next to Anthony Davis, right? Like, you know, if you make this pick, like, what does it mean for Anthony Davis? What does it mean for the entire team? You know, this is, it's not like Kyrie is going to be there to start the season. I don't know what the expectations would be. Even if he comes back, let's say, best case scenario, you know, he's back in January. We know that, you know, with, with acl and you know, it takes about a whole season really for a guy to feel like himself usually. So it's not like they expect to contend or anything next season. Anthony Davis isn't going to get any younger in the meantime. I mean, so if they did make the pick, like, what do you think happens as the fallout from that?

[Anthony Slater]

Look, I think one of the really interesting parts about if, if they do make the pick is, you know, the Mavericks are, have like kind of a two to three year window here. I mean, really, they've got two years if you look at the age of their stars. So, you know, do they feel like Cooper Flag can be the third, fourth, fifth best player in a championship team right away? I think that's a question that they have to ask themselves. And also, you know, do they want to do this two timeline thing? You know, do they like Nico Harrison to me, has not seemed focused on the long term. You know, they don't control their picks 27 to 2030. That's, you know, even with Cooper and you got to retool, like those would be really valuable pieces. You know, Nico Harrison said at that closed door roundtable, I've got three years left in my deal. You know, like it was kind of like one way to read that was, look, I got three more years left. We're going to try to win a championship and then who knows after that. I mean, I think, you know, just. Does this make the Mavs think long term a little bit more?

[Noah Chestnut]

Should we talk about the Giannis in the room? S. We should.

[Christian Clark]

I mean, look, the way we're opening the door for it right now, for the possibility of it. I mean, if you are the Mavericks. Look, this would have been a different conversation if it was the Nets or the Jazz or the Wizards who are all losers in this lottery tonight. If it's the Mavericks, do you trade it for Giannis and Tina Campo?

[Anthony Slater]

You know, I'm, I'm not like the, the most knowledgeable salary cap person in the world. You know, I don't know how, how difficult it would be to fill out that team if you've got, you know, on like the 55 to 45, the 42 million or whatever it is. But if your goal is to win a championship in the next two to three years, yeah, I mean, there's, there's an argument to be made that you do, but you can also tell yourself, like, we can be a championship contender team, you know, next season as long as Kyrie Irving looks like Kyrie Irving. That's, that's the big thing. And I still think there are things they've got to go out and do it guard because the Mavericks have one healthy point guard under contract for next season to be healthy at the start of next season. That's Brandon Williams, who's a two way guy next year. So, you know, even if they take Cooper Flag, like this team has to do something at guard, you know, to adjust to, I guess, fix, like initiation creation.

[Noah Chestnut]

So looking at this team, okay, they were in the finals less than a year ago. This time last year, they trade a generational star. Surprisingly now they've gotten the number one pick in draft. What's next? I mean, it just feels like they have. It's either going to be a blockbuster or they're going to make some kind of crazy run next year, I guess. How do they fill this team out? Like no Kyrie until January. Let's say they make the pick with Cooper Flag. I really want to wish cast here. I mean, how do they feel the most fun to move someone.

[Anthony Slater]

I think the funniest outcome would be Nico trading the pick for an underwhelming return. You know, like if he does trade it and he's like, yeah, but we put it on the floor for like Kevin Durant. It's like, yeah, we didn't, we didn't get Giannis, we got Kevin Durant. You know, I mean, that would be the Funniest outcome. I hope that doesn't happen because it was not fun dealing with that pissed off fan base all year. But that would be the funniest thing Nico could do is, like, move it. For a guy who's got, like, two years left, you know, of pride or.

[Christian Clark]

Whatever, that would be insane. I. I'm still kind of recovering from the fallout of this as we all are sort of reacting to literally like.

[Noah Chestnut]

An hour ago as we're recording this. So I.

[Christian Clark]

From your point of view, Christian, and I, I guess from yours as well, Dave, how do you look at this situation? And you look at sort of the. The history of the NBA and the lottery, right? When it comes to Cleveland, LeBron leaves, they immediately get Kyrie Irving. The Lakers trade Anthony Davis, they end up with Zion Williamson, and now this situation. There's going to be a lot of people considering the fact that the lottery is rigged. Okay, that's not necessarily what we're suggesting here, but it's just going to be a narrative. How do you parse through that in with what's happened with the Mavericks over the last six months?

[Anthony Slater]

You know, I've been dealing with a lot of conspiracy theories down here. One that was floating around and that. That will not die, and it's a ridiculous one, is that, hey, you know, ownership, this is a long con to move the team to Vegas, right? Yeah, they don't want to do that. I mean, it's like the fourth biggest media market in the United States. There's just going to be expansion teams. You know, like, I'm sure the other owners want to get that big old check that comes with an expansion team. Like, it's not going to. It's not going to happen. You know, a team that has won a championship here fairly recently in the fourth biggest media market is not going to get uprooted. But I've been dealing with that one, and that one's not dying. Look, I get why people want to have fun with it. You know, I don't. I. Obviously, the NBA just waves this way.

[Christian Clark]

The basketball gods, right, Have.

[Anthony Slater]

I mean, look, I covered the Pelicans team. I covered a Pelicans team that had a 6% chance of the number one pick in 2019, and they hit on that and got Zion Williamson. I mean, this is just. I mean, the flattened odds have made it a little crazier, and I. I kind of like it.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah, it's good. And. And also, you know, people, if you study religion, you know that the basketball gods probably, like, the other gods are not Exactly. Like, they don't make sense all the time. Sometimes it's not about.

[Christian Clark]

They work in mysterious ways.

[Noah Chestnut]

Right. Sometimes it's mischievous. Right.

[Anthony Slater]

They do say that the basketball gods work in mysterious ways.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah. So this is certainly one of the more interesting ways that, that this could have worked out, you know, so well.

[Christian Clark]

I mean, the other part of this is the, the flattened lottery odds and like, the fact that, look, it's anybody's case. And if you want to have a conversation about tanking in the NBA and the incentive to tank, this is your example for why there is no incentive whatsoever to tank. Because you look at where the Wizards are in this draft now, the Jazz, the Nets, it, it's not looking good for teams that really tried to make.

[Anthony Slater]

The choice to go out in the wilderness. You might be out in the wilderness for a long, long time.

[Noah Chestnut]

Absolutely. Yeah. And. Well, and think about if you're a Utah Jazz fan this year, you just did, you just suffered through that for nothing. I mean, this team, where's their path to getting better? You know, you've got a lot of draft picks, but, you know, if you, if you trade them for a good player, those picks aren't worth as much, you know, and what good player necessarily, like, like Giannis, for, for instance, Giannis can say no to going to Utah. So it's not like those, you know, they can get you a Lowry market, and I, I, they can't bring you in one of the big fish that we know is required to, to win a title. So I, I just don't know. You know, maybe the path is to stay in the middle and then hope you hit a double here and there, you know.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Noah Chestnut]

And maybe this is something that gets the league to look at lottery reform again and to disincentivize losing even more and create a more competitive environment. I just don't know how you do it and maintain a balance of talent, which there already isn't a balance of talent. When you think about east versus West.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah, the east lost tonight. Yeah, the east lost big time and.

[Noah Chestnut]

May lose more talent because Giannis, when you look at some of the places, you know, if a Giannis trade happens, a lot of the places that have the assets and have, you know, the market and the fit that makes sense are out West.

[Christian Clark]

You know, I mean, I'm looking at the San Antonio spurs, who landed the second pick today.

[Noah Chestnut]

Exactly.

[Christian Clark]

Yeah. That opens up the possibility of them eventually trying to get Giannis.

[Noah Chestnut]

Well, Christian, I look forward to your reporting over the coming weeks. You're going to have an exciting, what, six weeks, five weeks between now and.

[Christian Clark]

The draft, get thrust back into the NBA.

[Noah Chestnut]

Cooper, flag quite a bit and I guess, you know, do some reading on Giannis while you're at it. Guys, stick around after the break. We got Anthony Slater. Talk Warriors, Wolves. The Timberwolves pick up a win in game four and the warriors are now down three to one. Anthony Slater's calling us from an Uber on his way to the airport. If you're watching on YouTube, I apologize for the roller coaster ride there. There was Anthony Slater.

[Dave]

Sorry, I was, I was trying to see if I could flip the phone. You can almost restart if you want.

[Noah Chestnut]

No, no, it's okay. I think it's funny, I gotta say. Look, obviously the Warriors. No, no, Steph Curry, I, I think game three, you know, that was their chance to, to stick in it and man, the Wolves came out in game four and just, it really just showed quite a bit of poise, I thought, especially in the second half. Anthony Edwards goes off, takes the game over. What was it like, you know, watching the warriors just not really be able to do anything against the Wolves.

[Dave]

Yeah, they can't score. You know, they first three games of the series under a hundred points. Tonight they were over a hundred. Mostly just because they're mop up duty guys like, you know, went off like they, they did. They basically were below 100 tonight. Jimmy Butler was sick and took nine shots, so you couldn't get kind of the full Jimmy Butler experience. And I know I'm probably, you know, video wise roller coastering a little bit for y' all again. But 27 attempted threes tonight, 23 attempted threes in the game prior, like that's just not 20, 25 volume that's gonna allow you to compete. They can't score. They can't get enough spacing around Jimmy Butler. They cannot get the Miami Heat version of Jimmy Butler for various reasons right now. And they're just a little doomed offensively. And to be honest, I mean, it's pretty easy retelling of this story from the warriors perspective. Steph Curry hurt his hamstring injury. They felt very good about the series. Prior to that, they were up 30 to 20. Like, I think they will tell themselves that they believe they would have won this series and Steph Curry was here, but their best player, who, you know, and they're probably more reliant than most teams on their best player, but their best player got hurt in the second round series and they're going to lose because of it. And I Don't know if they would have won had it not happened, but they certainly aren't going to win after it happened.

[Christian Clark]

Well, it certainly would have been a more competitive series at the very least. Right. And I think if you look at it from the warriors perspective, like there's an opportunity here next season. And you know, Slater, we've kind of talked about it as we've had pods with you. It's like they're looking at this as a window for the next two or three seasons between Jimmy and Stephen. How do you look at that window now, given some of the information that you have about this team with Jimmy and sort of the ebbs and flows of, of the offense, you know, the shooters around him, the creation and then obviously the Steph injury. But how do you look at what they got to do this summer maybe to. To make sure they look like contenders next year?

[Dave]

Yeah, I think they're going to want to solidify the center position a little bit with a, you know, more established veteran innings eater. You know, Quentin Post faded in these playoffs, Trace Jackson Davis has shown a little bit park, but I think he would want a, a more veteran type of guy in there. You mentioned the shooting. I mean, you've seen it. Jimmy Butler needs space. Like, like most of your creators, he has none. And also the age. You know, we could talk about the window, but the reality is Steph Curry's 37, Draymond and Jimmy are 35. That, you know, by the time they would be in their next playoff run, we're talking 38 and double 36 is there. So, you know, like second round. It's not a, it's not a terrible outcome for them to be in the final eight considering where they were a couple months ago. I mean, they' going to want to necessarily hear that right now.

[Noah Chestnut]

Absolutely.

[Dave]

Yeah. The big question will be Kaminga. And talk about a roller coaster. You know, it's. It's like my video right now basically has been his future and his market value and his just four years with the warriors. But you know, he would be the path through via sign and trade to get, you know, rotational help this summer. But, you know, he looks great the last couple games, right?

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah.

[Dave]

You know, so like solving his future and figuring out if they think he can fit because he didn't. Hadn't really been fitting in the Steph Curry ecosystem. And I think a lot of people forgot that what he had done prior and he's reminding people right now like there's still a lot of talent in there. This is not in my opinion at least. This is not some like bust of a seventh overall pick. No, he's on the rise now. I don't know if he can be on the rise within what the warriors want to do and if he's not, then they better find a way to get valuable pieces for him this summer. To me, that is the crux question of their summer. Does Kaminga become something valuable or do you bring him back?

[Christian Clark]

Where do you lean at this point? Do you, do you lean Kaminga being with the warriors or.

[Dave]

It's gonna be tough conversations. Restrictive free agencies, obviously more team friendly. I know Joe Lacop is a big fan. He's over there, you know, fist pumping after every big Kaminga play. You know, you watch this series and like Jimmy Butler, you know, is having a tough time separating his space. Draymond Green has not had the greatest series and, and you do wonder as you look at the 22 year old, about to be 23 year old wing, like, you know, is it smart for a franchise to turn away from that and, and you know, pivot towards, you know, the older group. But we also understand the older group has earned what they've earned. So much so my considering how the four years have gone and I probably would have made a stronger statement a week ago not believing Jonathan Kamingo will be back because of where the relationship generally with the franchise had gone. But I also know they don't want to let them walk for nothing and restrict the free agency. If you don't want somebody to walk for nothing and if they get an offer seat, then you match it and you figure it out later. So that could happen.

[Christian Clark]

Right.

[Dave]

But I do think there'll be sign and trade type scenarios also explored.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah, I think at his age, I mean he's going to have a market and definitely like again, show. He showed a lot of poise. I thought the game, I thought that especially in the first half, his offense was exactly what they needed and what you would want to see out of Kuminga in that situation. Put his head down a lot and maybe not as good on the defensive end in game four as he was in game three, but you know, it shows flashes. So I definitely would be interested. I want to swing it to the Wolves side of this because I actually think we've kind of seen them, you know, they got hit in the mouth in this series. Right. Like even without Steph out there, again, the, the big loss in game one, you know, they, they almost gave it up in game three, first half of this game Even, you know, the. The warriors were in there making it a dog fight. Like, what have you thought about how Minnesota has handled this series even with Steph being up?

[Dave]

Yeah, prior to the night, to tonight, honestly, I hadn't been that impressed. Game one, they lost basically with Steph out. I know they're down 30, 20 when he went out, but, you know, the warriors, rough 22. At one point, like the fourth quarter of that game, they didn't really, like, foot on the throat like, they. They could have lost game three. And honestly, behind the scenes, you had warriors people kicking themselves about the idea that if Steph was there, like, they really believed. Again, I'm not saying this, but there is a strong internal belief that had Steph not got injured, they felt really good about the matchup, and even that Houston might have, like, provided tougher issues to them. But I will say, even going into tonight, it was like, if you are. If the Wolves are who they want to be, if they are a true threat to go past this series and beyond and maybe even to the NBA Finals, a good team like that, you know, kills off a. An undermanned team without its best player. And tonight they did that. Right. Like, they just came in and. And took the hearts and all the motivation out of the warriors in the third quarter. They went on the big 170 run. To me, Edwards was that type of superstar tonight. I don't know what he finished with point wise, but 30, yeah, pretty easy 32, which is, you know, his. His kind of combination of just powerful rim drives and. And deep, tough threes. Right. He's hitting really tough threes. Yeah. McDaniel's statistics don't pop off the page, but I think he's just been such a factor. And then Julius Randall's having a huge series, playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. And he's given Draymond some trouble. You know, we're like, more. More than Sengun did. I would say so. Yeah. Like, they've been impressive, but also. And it's not like the Thunder have just been rolling through the Nuggets, and we don't even know if it will be the Thunder in the next round. But I will say that the Timberwolves haven't done enough for me to believe. Like, I wouldn't pick them against the Thunder at this point.

[Christian Clark]

Do you have a Finals prediction now that we're here?

[Dave]

Sure. Thunder, are we here?

[Noah Chestnut]

Wait. Wait a second. We're not doing this. We're not writing off Nikola Jokic yet. I'm just asking. That series is too, too. Are you telling me you think that you think the Thunder just have this?

[Dave]

No, I would say I don't think they necessarily have this. But I he all he asked for a Finals prediction. I could have said Nuggets against Cavaliers.

[Noah Chestnut]

It's true.

[Dave]

I could still say that. I think I covered the Thunder second round series last year where they went. It would. It played out exactly, pretty much exactly the same where it was 2:1 on the road. They went and got game four in Dallas. Shay was awesome.

[Christian Clark]

That was big SJ game.

[Dave]

Yeah. Yeah. And then they went home for game five and they blew it. So that could happen again. Sure. We've already seen them lose at home in this series, so. But if you're just asking for a prediction, I think the Thunder finish that series off, beat the Wolves, go to the Finals, don't play the Boston Celtics anymore as I'm sure you guys are going to talk about that news.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah.

[Dave]

So they're probably the. I mean I think Vegas has labeled them pretty clear favorites at this point for the, for the title.

[Noah Chestnut]

Yeah. I mean they checked all the boxes in the regular season, but they still got to get through Jokic. Sure. Look, we're going to let you get to the airport, get there safely. Have a safe flight. That's going to do it for the show, folks. Thanks to Anthony Slater. Thanks to Christian Clark Esperahenny. I'm David Ford and this has been the NBA Daily.

[Dave]

Thanks for waking up with us, Sam.

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