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- [00:01]
Sponsor Voice
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- [01:22]
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- [02:33]
Host 1
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily Coming Up Andrew Schle live postgame with someone doing the elliptical next to him after Thunder Laker. And then I've got Adam Mares to talk about Michael Malone being fired by the Nuggets.
- [02:51]
Host 2
Foreign.
- [02:57]
Host 1
Everybody. Good morning, guys. Andrew, thanks for hanging out. Post game, the Thunder get a little bit of revenge on the Lakers for the blowout. But I got to start with this. Andrew, how did you get Luka Doncic ejected from this game?
- [03:15]
Apple Card Voice
This. It was so. It was funny because I went and went and talked to JJ Post game, and I listened to what he had to say. He said Luca was talking to a fan. And then you hear from the Thunder side, and you hear. And you read the pool report. JT or the official believed that it was being directed at him. And even Mark Degnalt had talked to JT after he was ejected, asking what was going on. And JT Said that he had directed something toward him. And it was. So there was confusion, I think, as to actually what happened here. It was a fan that. That I actually. I know this fan that was ejected. He says courtside, he heckles. He heckles players every single game. Little home court advantage. A heckler.
- [04:01]
Host 1
So I believe he said post game, he was playing the game within the game.
- [04:06]
Apple Card Voice
And you know what? It kind of worked. Kind of worked for him tonight. Jeremy got the victory over Luka tonight.
- [04:13]
Host 3
Oh, my God. That's funny. Well, there's going to be a lot of fans tomorrow for Luca to deal with as well. That's going to be a part of it. But this game was absolutely nuts. Like, the shot making throughout the first half was just absurd. It was something like, I don't know, 80% on threes for the first half between these two teams, which was kind of a mirror of the first game for the Lakers. What is it about this matchup that makes it such an offensively crazy game? And what do we see tonight from that?
- [04:42]
Apple Card Voice
I mean, I think a lot of it is that the Lakers have three ball handlers, which most teams don't. Thunder don't deal with teams like that very often. And when the Thunders start a game, when you have Dort and you have J Dub and you have Shea, like you're usually set, like you're okay. When you play this Lakers squad, it's just different. The Lakers just thrive on getting paint touches and spraying out to the corner, which I think is probably the biggest weakness for the Thunder defense. Especially when you have somebody that can really drive the ball like LeBron and Luka. That. That's just A weakness for them. They allow more corner threes than any team in the NBA. We saw this in the playoffs against Dallas. It's the same kind of weaknesses that we see against the Lakers. And you know, I think I would have loved to see this game finish with Luka in just to see what would have transpired. I still probably think the Thunder hold on and win this one, but it changes the complexity of the court for everybody when there's only two ball handlers out there and the Thunder can shut that down pretty easily. That's what they see on a night to night basis is that it's mostly just two guys, but when there's three, I just think that there's a big difference there.
- [05:54]
Host 1
Well, what the Lakers are able to do, again you mentioned paint touches and spraying the ball to the corner. And then if you cover the corner, that kick is going to Austin Reeves or it's going to LeBron. Two guys that know how to put the ball on the floor and then make a decision, everything just becomes more difficult. The, the momentum of this game shifted in the third quarter in the Lakers direction. I mean, obviously their defense just came out, I thought in, in the second half, lot more aggressive, but Luca himself was just getting to the basket, he was scoring more and then obviously gets ejected and things change. What allowed the game to get away from the Lakers? Because I mean it was. Yes, of course, no Luca out there, but there were things that the Thunder were doing that were upsetting them on defense. I thought the physicality went up a notch for the Thunder, which is a funny thing to say, but in that fourth quarter, post ejection, what did you see out of the Thunder when they sealed the deal?
- [06:48]
Apple Card Voice
Yeah, I mean a lot of it is just, it's frankly Shay Gilbert Alexander coming in the game.
- [06:53]
Host 1
42 points isn't bad.
- [06:54]
Apple Card Voice
Yeah, yeah, he had 42 tonight. He, they actually brought him in a little early. They usually bring him in around like the six or seven minute mark of the fourth quarter. They brought him in at the nine minute mark. The Thunder really wanted this one. Like they really wanted to win this one. They played with a lot more physicality. You saw that from the jump tonight in OKC from, from all these guys. But a lot of it came down to just shot making for them, especially in that, those third quarter runs. And it came down to like a lot of defensive intensity too. Like we saw the Thunder get a lot more steals, a lot more fast breaks. There was a 10, 0 run in the first half that was ignited by three consecutive steals by Alex Caruso. And then in the third quarter, I mean it was Shea, she had 11 points and three rebounds in the third quarter alone. And so a lot of it is that they have the MVP and like and that helps when he's on which he really wasn't in that first game. He didn't have the greatest game. He wasn't getting to his spots. But tonight was different. Like he was able to go off. I thought Jalen Williams did a lot better tonight as well, getting to spots and making shots. And I think that that was really the difference is when the Thunder have those two guys going, they're really hard to beat.
- [08:10]
Host 3
Andrew as, as a guy who obviously has been covering this Thunder team for a long time and now you watch the Lakers back to back games, there has been a conversation of should they be worried about this Lakers team in a postseason series. And it's tough to say that for a team that now has 65 wins, the most in franchise history, being worried. But is there any sort of concern, is there any sort of bad matchup here between the Lakers and Thunder from the Thunders perspective?
- [08:39]
Apple Card Voice
I do think this is probably one of the tougher matchups for them in the Western Conference. Just from a little bit of what I said earlier about the three ball handlers having them on the court at the same time, I think is makes it particularly challenging for them. Also like the rate that the Lakers made threes is this sustainable. You know they shot 45 from three tonight and, and shot over 50 on Sunday. And so what does it look like when that settles down to like a 39 from three? Right. It's like we're not like saying like they need to shoot poorly from three, but what if they're normal good from three? What does that look like? So I think that really changes things. But I do think like having again it's back to me it's about the ball handling and what they can do and then it's about the corners. That's something like LeBron James and Luka Doncic are experts at finding guys in the corner. Those are like the two best in the NBA. Like two of the best all time. Probably. Like both these guys have made their living by getting into the paint and finding guys in the corner and they have guys that can make those shots. Like they have multiple guys that are 40, 40 plus percent from the corners this season. So I do think it's a bad matchup in some ways. Thunder need to dominate with more physicality though. Like they're, they're the bigger team, which is not something that we've been able to say for a while. They are the bigger team. And so I. You just need to see them dominate in a different way once the playoffs sit, and I think we will. You know, the Thunder aren't playing for anything right now. Like, they're just not. The Lakers have to win two more games. They have to. And the Lakers wanted to. I thought the Lakers weren't going to play anybody tonight.
- [10:21]
Host 1
That's the Lakers. I was impressed.
- [10:22]
Apple Card Voice
They have to win. Yeah, they have to win, too. So I. I struggle to. I'm grasping at, like, takeaways from this, and I think there are some. But I don't think that from either of these games, there's a whole lot to take.
- [10:38]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [10:38]
Apple Card Voice
To worry about the playoffs. I think the playoffs. I think it would look very different.
- [10:42]
Host 1
All right, well, we're gonna let you get out of here before they pack you up with the arena. Thank you, Andrew Schlage, for hanging out. Big night in the NBA. Not just. I mean, big day. Michael Malone getting fired. Guys stick around after the break. Went pretty deep with Adam Mares on what it means for the Nuggets. S got any quick takes on Michael Malone and Calvin Booth being out in Denver.
- [11:13]
Host 3
It's sort of similar to the Taylor Jenkins situation in the fact that the timing is bizarre. You're not. You're not surprised by the actual firings? More about the timing of it with there only being, you know, a week until the NBA playoffs. To me, it just feels like the Nuggets are trying to squeeze as much juice as possible out of this roster and then changes to come in the summer, which I'm sure Mares gets into for sure.
- [11:36]
Host 1
Well, we talked about MVPs in purgatory the other day. I'm not sure if you caught that show as well. We had another MVP playing last night. Giannis Antetokounmpo has had a ridiculous season. Picks up his third straight triple double, and the Bucks mounted a 24 point comeback to beat the Timberwolves. And man, this Bucks team, every single time I feel like they're done, let's write them off. Giannis does something ridiculous. And this is why John Wilmas the other the other day said he feels like as long as Giannis is healthy, the Bucks can win a playoff series. This is the sort of performance that he's talking about.
- [12:18]
Host 3
It's funny that they did this against the Timberwolves because these two teams are having very similar seasons in that they are extremely confusing. But they have the high end talent to be able to compete against anyone in Giannis and in Anthony Edwards. And I think when it comes to Giannis, like the way that he can control and manipulate a game, it just, it's up there with one of the best. You know, if, if it wasn't a historical MVP season for Jokic and for Shea, it would be a three man race between these three guys. It's just the way that it works. But this game was nuts, Dave. They were down 20 in the fourth quarter to start the fourth. They went on a 20 and oh run. There was this, you know, kerfuffle thing between Rudy Gobert and Kevin Porter Jr. That ignited the, the Bucks to A.J. green and Gary Trent Jr. Would hit, were hitting shots. The Wolves got hit with a zone and they just had no idea how to do anything. There were a bunch of turnovers, Anthony Edwards was turning the ball over, Mike Conley, etc. Etc. And the Bucks just pull out a massive win. This is a huge loss for the Timberwolves that needed this win to kind of stay out of the, out of the plane. But it seems like unless they win out, they're probably going to be in seven or eight.
- [13:29]
Host 1
Yeah, they, they drop out of that pack that was all tied up there with, with the same record. And again it's, this is the sort of stuff that has been happening for the, for the Wolves all season.
- [13:41]
Host 2
Exactly.
- [13:41]
Host 1
You know, this snaps a five game win streak that they were on the Bucs right now on a five game win streak, but it snaps a five game win streak and it does it in an awful way. Yeah, you, you blow a 24 point lead in the fourth quarter. I mean that's, that is one of your worst losses of the season.
- [13:59]
Host 3
It seemed like the Wolves were also putting things together. It seemed like it was slowly but surely making sense and every time it does, it just ends up becoming more confusing with this Wolves team, one of the most fascinating teams this season because of that for sure.
- [14:12]
Host 1
I'm. Listen, with the way that the coaching carousel is looking right now, I'm already starting to think. I don't know. Yeah, we never know, Sean, you know, Chris Finch on the hot seat for, you know, stuff like this. I don't know, you got to kind of figure those things out when you're an NBA coach. The Celtics took overtime. Jason Tatum hits a game tying shot with about three seconds left with OG Anunoby all in his face to, to force that overtime. The Celtics needed overtime, but they beat the Knicks 1 19, 1 17. The Knicks still haven't beat a good team.
- [14:44]
Host 3
S. Owen 9 versus Cleveland, Boston and OKC, they just, they're just one step below those gu. That's just it, you know, and like, there's nothing wrong with that. Three teams that are having pretty, pretty good seasons, all going to have 60 plus wins. One once Boston wins another game. But at the same time, they're just not at that level where they're going to be competing for a championship against these teams. Maybe that changes in the playoffs. I thought the Knicks played a really good game tonight, but the Celtics also dealing with their own things. Jaylen Brown only played 20ish minutes for them, was dealing with a knee thing throughout this one. And so that's sort of the question moving forward from the Celtics side of things is how does Jaylen Brown look over these next two weeks as they press prep for the playoffs?
- [15:27]
Host 1
Yeah, and the Celtics have been great 20 and 4 since the all star break. You know, I kept hitting, banging this drum. Number one offense in March 30 pace. They have been fantastic. Porzingis, you know, he hits the go ahead three in overtime here. Like, you start to see things come together. And now this Jalen Brown knee thing is kind of raising its head and you know, the debate here is, do you rest him or do you, you know, let him play through it like he's doing now and hope that he's ready to go for the playoffs. And I mean, frankly, I don't know because this team, I still feel as if they are the favorites to win the title. They did it. You know, we just saw him do it. And I think that when you look at the way that they've been playing here in the lead up to the, to the playoffs, it kind of backs that up. Yeah, but they need to be perfect and they need everyone healthy. Such a huge piece.
- [16:19]
Host 3
You know, obviously they missed Kristoff's pours and guess last year in the playoffs for the most part, but health was a big reason this team ended up in the finals. Just because the other guys, their core guys, were able to stay healthy.
- [16:30]
Host 1
Right.
- [16:30]
Host 3
There was no real issue for Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum throughout that postseason. I think this team, though, can probably win their first round series without Jalen Brown. And so I'm not saying they're going to do that. I don't think they would do that. Yeah, but there's, there's a pretty decent chance that if it's, you know, Atlanta or Orland or whoever, they're probably going to win that series even without Jaylen Brown. And so do you. Do you start to consider that? I don't know if you would, but just throwing that thought out there, I don't know.
- [16:59]
Host 1
We only got five days left in the season, so I think we'll have an idea by the time we get to next week. Guys, stick around. After the break, Adam Mares from DNVR is here to talk about Michael Malone, Calvin Booth, Nicole Jokic, Jamal Murray, and what comes next for the Denver Nuggets. The NBA world was in shock with the news that the Nuggets are moving on from coach Michael Malone. Here to talk about it, my man over at DNVR and the all NBA, All City, All NBA podcast, Adam Mares. How are you, buddy?
- [17:44]
Host 2
I'm doing good, man. It was a long day and a long and unexpected day.
- [17:49]
Host 1
Yeah, a bit of a wild, unexpected day. I think that's a good way to put it for everybody. Not only are the Nuggets moving on from Michael Malone, but they have made it known that they're not going to extend Calvin Booth. So this is a complete sea change organizationally. What is your initial impression? Did you see this coming?
- [18:10]
Host 2
I did see it coming, just not now. I think this was something that I fully expected in the off season. Should the Nuggets not make a deep playoff run, which the indications over the last month or so with that they were not going to make a deep playoff run. They had been struggling. So I expected this to come at the end of the season was the team would shift directions. You said Calvin Booth was not going to be extended. He was let go. So this is not a thing of like, I mean, he's out the building. Yeah, yeah. But just only point that out because it's. It is almost semantics in one way of this was a. We're pulling the band aid off now, and I think you could argue are they trying to re. Galvanize the team to not waste this season and maybe give them a spark? I. It doesn't make sense that you wouldn't just play this out and then make this move a month from now. So I can only anticipate that that means the team thought that this would maybe be a shot in the arm to not waste one of the greatest individual seasons we've ever seen from a player and. And give themselves even the tiniest chance to rally.
- [19:08]
Host 1
What do you think this means for, like, the Jamal Murray injury? Because that's what I went to. Initially, I was thinking, okay, like you, I felt like Michael Malone's time was probably running up. I Mean, Modakil was on, on this podcast feed last year kind of saying the exact same thing. And it's just the thing that happens with NBA coaches, but I assumed he was going to get a chance to see this through. And so, you know, I'm looking at this Jamal Murray injury, which we've been hearing reports the last few days and, and in post game press conferences, it makes it feel like it's worse than maybe just nursing him through the rest of the season to get to the playoffs. I mean, do you think that this means that he's not going to be available somehow for the playoffs or if it just diminished?
- [19:51]
Host 2
I've heard almost the opposite, that, that I think there's a chance we might see him in the next three games. I don't think we'll see him tomorrow. I don't know if he' officially ruled out. I think he got elevated to doubtful. But I don't think this is a thing that the Nuggets are saying. Jamal Murray will not be healthy the rest of the year. I don't think it's that.
- [20:07]
Host 1
Okay.
- [20:07]
Host 2
I also don't know that that played into it. Obviously, if he was healthy, they probably have an extra win or two.
- [20:12]
Host 1
Right.
- [20:13]
Host 2
And maybe that's enough to just hold the, the, the door, so to speak, till after the playoffs. But I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think this was moving in slow motion over the course of the last year and a half. They win a championship in 2023 and that became the bar. This is a championship, open window is open team, and you have to maximize every second. And I think you saw, I mean, look, this is not. I think Michael Mullen's a great coach and did a great job here. He's the winningest coach in Nuggets history. But 10 years, there's a reason you don't see coaches around for 10 years. That's hard to do. And I do think that there was a bit of, you know, maybe his voice was expiring a little bit. Again, nothing urgent, no singular event, but I think it was something that the organization felt, the fan base probably felt to some extent. And then there was a huge conflict between him and Calvin Booth. And it was well publicized. People have talked about this, and I think that that strain behind closed doors seeped out emotionally into the fabric of the organization in a way that it just came to a head and both of them went. Went home. So.
- [21:14]
Host 1
Right.
- [21:14]
Host 2
One of those things where the alignment never arrived and both guys now find themselves on the Couch.
- [21:18]
Host 1
I mean, it was a team building disagreement where you have a coach who didn't want to play the young guys and you had Calvin Booth who thought you could have a bench that mostly young players. And it seems like the KCP move, you know, allowing him to walk was maybe the, the straw that broke the camel's back from a relationship perspective. But I mean, do you feel like the wins sort of papered over a lot of this? I mean, and you even went back to the championship. I mean, did that championship maybe paper over a relationship issue?
- [21:49]
Host 2
There's no question. And I think that you look at this and say, Jokic covers a lot of sins. He's a great player and he can make up for a lot of shortcomings. And so it is hard. Say last year they were among the favorites to win the title. Jamal Murray gets hurt late, it falls apart on them and they come up short. But you can't look at that season and say it was a failure from top to bottom. You look at it and say, okay, a thing breaks the other direction and maybe they go on to the finals. So I think it was easy to assess that in the last year. But this year you look at it and say, what's going to show up the potential of last year? The good parts of it or the concerns? And I think this year was just triple the level of concerns. The exact same ones, only more so. And none of the excitement of the previous two years. So it just became obvious that, that the leadership of both of those guys mixed together in a thing that became toxic and I think ran its course in Denver.
- [22:44]
Host 1
And some of the stuff that's, that's been coming out through press conferences the last month, month and a half. I mean, you have Michael Malone being a little bit more aggressive, I would say, in calling out the players, saying they were full of it basically and didn't watch film and you know, calling out the defense here. Recently, Russell Westbrook had a bit of an in game meltdown and cost them a huge game the other night. And he hasn't really spoken to the media. And I wonder like when I see stuff like that, you know, Adam, you know, I've been in those rooms and I understand, like, okay, there are a lot of fractures happening. To fire the coach with six games left in the season. This is unprecedented for a team that's going to be in the playoffs and has the best player in the world. So, you know, you, you make the case for me that they are going to get fired up from this. And this is going to spur them on into a title. Instead of what's happened to the Grizzlies, which since they've let go of their coach, has just gone into a complete free fall. We're questioning whether they're going to move on from Jabarant.
- [23:48]
Host 2
I, I can't make that case for you because this doesn't happen. This is the latest firing in NBA history, tied for the latest firing going back to Hubie Brown 50 years ago. That was the last time a player was A coach was fired with three games remaining in the, in the season. So this is not something that I think is a genius move. I think it's a last ditch move. This is a. Well, we might as well do it now because we're definitely going to do it. The only other case, because I can't make the case that the Nuggets are going to do this. They have Jokic. That's the case. Right. The ceiling is high when you.
- [24:16]
Host 1
That's what we've been saying. Right.
- [24:17]
Host 2
And you can shorten your rotation in a playoffs. So depth is obviously a problem for Denver. Can you shorten that enough to. That there's just six and a half guys and you win with that? I mean, probably not, but that's the case. But the other thing I kept thinking was Jokic is also great enough to carry you to a conference finals when you don't deserve it. And I do wonder if part of the calculus here was we know what we need to do. Let's not give ourselves a chance to lock up and make it to the conference finals. And all of a sudden now we can't fire the coach. You can't. It's working. Everybody don't. We're so. Part of me wonders if I, I can't make sense of why now other than they think the team will be galvanized and you can save the season. Or you worry that any measure of success would make it harder to make the move, you know, you wanted to make in the off season.
- [25:03]
Host 1
So what. What's next for them? You know, let's say this, this playoff run is disappointing. Maybe it's a first round exit. Maybe they make the second round. What do you see happening for them? This. It feels like they've got multiple decisions to make. Whether it's that looming Michael Porter Jr. Trade that we've maybe been talking about since he signed his contract, maybe a potential Jamal Murray move. Obviously they, they got to find a new head coach, new gm. Where do you think this franchise is going?
- [25:29]
Host 2
It's really hard to say. And I think that you look at that and say the interim gm, although it has not been named as such, but the next man up on the totem pole is Tommy Balchis who's been around for, for 10 years. He came in, you know, with Tim Conley. Actually it's been 12 years. So he's been around the building for a very long time. Do they elevate him? That's been their M.O. in fact, I think there's a quote of Josh Kroenke years back talking about building in a system that's like shark's teeth revolving sharks teeth. The next guy can fill the shoes of the one that came before him. You have Jokic in his prime. He is three time mvp. He had the best season of his career this year, at least offensively. I think that there's a sense of urgency, of you can't, there's no ramp up to this job. Whoever comes in has to hit the ground running. If they do look outside and they try to find someone to come in, I have to imagine whoever they bring in looks around and says Jokic is one of the greatest players to ever play and he has gone 10 years without playing with another all star, all NBA player or all defensive team. More than any other player in NBA history, he has played more games without a teammate that qualified for one of those awards. I have to imagine they would say that's not happening again. So Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. Aaron Gordon. I think everybody would be on the table this summer for Denver to say we don't have time to figure this out slowly or develop a long term plan. We are in win now mode and whatever it takes year after year after year for the next several to get this thing done.
- [26:50]
Host 1
And now that we've lived through the Luca Donchi trade, we know that anything is possible. Adam Mares, you guys can find him. DNVR and the All City All NBA podcast. He does that with Tim Lego. It's a great show if you follow the entire league like I do. Thanks to S and Andrew for hanging out, talking a little bit of Thunder Lakers. That's going to do it for the show folks. Thank you guys for listening. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.
- [27:41]
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- [28:06]
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- [29:08]
Host 3
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
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Apple Card Voice
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- [29:13]
Host 1
How about Saturday morning cartoons? Hey, AOL chat rooms.
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Host 2
Did we just age ourselves?
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Host 3
Yep.
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Host 1
We're Mike Fanouia and Charles McBee, two.
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Apple Card Voice
Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging.
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Host 1
Question, Are we old?
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Host 3
Relive the laughs, the cringes, and the nostalgia.
- [29:30]
Host 1
Are we old?
- [29:31]
Apple Card Voice
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