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- [00:01]
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- [03:40]
Dave Dufour
Hello and welcome to the Athletic NBA Show. It's Wednesday. It's draft day. I'm Dave Dufour here with my man Mo Daquil. MO it's a good thing we didn't record this show. Early last night we had some breaking news. Mikhail Bridges is now a Villanova. Nick Excuse me, New York. NICK they now have.
- [04:04]
Mo Daquil
Do you think Jay Wright, do you think Jay Wright has some FOMO right now? Do you think he's like sitting around.
- [04:09]
Dave Dufour
Going like, oh, it's pretty incredible, honestly. I mean, this is the sort of stuff that we love about sports. In case you guys missed it last night. Mikhail Bridges, who hasn't missed a basketball game since high school, is going to be playing for Tom Thibodeau and the New York Knicks after being traded by the Brooklyn Nets. They agreed to this trade yesterday. And. MO The Nets get four unprotected first round picks from the Knicks and a top four protected pick in 2025 that came from Milwaukee. They also get a 2025 second round pick and the Nets weren't done. And we'll get to the the rest of the Nets moves and what it means for the Nets and the Rockets because they made a pick swap. But man, we got to start with the Knicks. This is, this is a pretty big swing. Whether it's a home run or not, we don't know. But it's a big cut, sending out five picks, four of them unprotected. MO that's a lot for Mikel Bridges.
- [05:10]
Mo Daquil
It feels that's, that's a ton for him. Like, I don't know what else to really kind of say beyond that. Like that's a huge ton for him, by the way, huge for a lot of guys. And I understand he was probably the most coveted trade asset in the NBA right now going into draft day, going into free agency. I think a lot of teams and a lot of people have been trying to find ways to get him. And I think that's kind of the interesting thing. I think there's been part of it was some of the reporting from Ian Bagley was, you know, he said, I want to be a Nick and basically he wanted to go hang out with his friends. And I, no, no, no shade on that. Like, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but. And he basically said, like, when my contract's up, which is two years, I'm going to make a point to, I'm just going to make it out. I'm signing with the Knicks. All that. He's going to leverage his way good on the Nets. To be like, fine Knicks, you have to give us your absolute best offer. And they did like, they got a whole ton back. And I just find it interesting for the Knicks because I think that's, that's a big swing. That's your swing, right? You. Let's assume they sign OGN and Obi. I don't know if they'll be able to sign Isaiah Hartenstein after this, but I'm assuming they're going to resign. OG that's your swing, that's your move. And it's, it's a question of like, hey, is that going to be enough to beat Boston? That's a lot of perimeter defense. I, I like it, but I want to see it all kind of come together.
- [06:45]
Dave Dufour
We kind of assumed that the Knicks were keeping a lot of their assets with, with the, you know, Joel Embiid in mind, like a, like a number one in mind is this. And you know, when we look at what Boston just did, obviously they have a number one in Jason Tatum. I, I think the Knicks, they have a number one in, in Jalen Brunson, at least for the Knicks. But is he enough of a number one when you, when you add enough talent, you know, it's again, looking at what the Boston Celtics did. They don't have a tier one guy, a 1A, but they have this, this guy who's in that 8 to 12 range and then everyone else in the starting lineup is a high level player. And when you look at the Knicks, I mean, I don't know that you can compare, you know, divincenzo to, to Derek White, but it's not that big of a drop.
- [07:36]
Mo Daquil
Off.
- [07:36]
Dave Dufour
And then obviously, OG Mikhail Bridges are very good. I mean, is this the new blueprint?
- [07:44]
Mo Daquil
It's going to be interesting. I. I kind of wonder if they will still have enough offensively in terms of the playmaking and creating, you know, the. So much fell on Jalen Brunson through the course of the playoffs that he had to make everything happen. And yes, Julius Randle was out. We know Randall's. You know, I'm assuming Randall's part of the picture in. In. In the plan. I think there's some of that with. With that stuff, but it's. It's hard because, like, I don't look at bridging Bridges more than a third option guy. Right. And I wonder if, you know, it'll be interesting to see if Jalen can continue to have the year that. Another year that he had this past year where he was basically a legitimate MVP candidate. Can he do that again? And I think it's. It's interesting for me, this moves more bigger on the defensive end than the offensive end.
- [08:37]
Dave Dufour
But the. The problems for the Knicks were on the offensive end. I mean, mo. Do you think that this is the case? Do you think the Knicks are looking at the 27 games that Mikel Bridges played after he got traded to Phoenix or to Brooklyn from Phoenix, where he averaged 26 a game on 18 shots? And they think, hey, look, the guy has. He. I mean, it's only 27 games, so it's a small sample. And he did average 20 a game last year. It's just lower volume. But I mean, 18 shots a night, 26 a game on. On really good efficiency in that. In that sort of, you know, half a season or whatever, that. That he played there after being traded from Phoenix? I mean, you think that the Knicks are looking at that and. And they're thinking this is our number two guy.
- [09:21]
Mo Daquil
If they are, they're wrong. Like, I'm sorry. That's just the. The It. When all of that was happening and everybody was going nuts, Dave. And I'm gonna toot my own horn here, you know, because I don't do that enough. I told you guys, this has feelings of Jeremy Grant, right, Going to Detroit, you know, like, this is. Yes, he can do all of that stuff. That doesn't necessarily help you win all that stuff. And I'm not holding Brooklyn's season against him last year. Brooklyn was just a massive mess last year. We'll discuss them in a little bit. But I think the issue for me is, like, he is at his best when he's at the role he had in Phoenix with a bit more expansion, right? A little bit more off the dribble. Some of that stuff that we did see in that 27 game brings that to that same type of role. He's more than a three and D guy, but. And he needs to be for New York. He needs to be able on the kickouts, attack the closeout, find a pass if he needs to make the layup, whatever it is. But like, he's not a guy. I'm running sets for every game and I'm running 20 sets for him or whatever, you know, like, he's not a guy. Not that Tibbs actually runs sets or has them in this offense, but that's a whole other story. But like, I think there's a lot of. There's a mixture of a lot of that stuff. That's what they hope they can get from him. But I think an expanded role for what he had with the Phoenix Suns is probably the best role for him on the Knicks, and that takes the Knicks to another level.
- [10:55]
Dave Dufour
You briefly mentioned Isaiah Hartenstein, and the Knicks are probably going to lose him, it seems unless he's willing to take a big discount to stay. He's probably out. So they're going to have to replace him. I mean, he was crucial to. To everything they did last year, and especially because Mitchell Robinson and some of his injury issues. You know, you. You almost need a second big. Like, you need two starters. If you're. The Knicks, how do they replace Hartenstein?
- [11:23]
Mo Daquil
Well, I. They still have precious Achua, who I thought did a decent job. I think they still have Randall. Maybe they play smaller, go five, you know, and. And move Randall to five. I'm not sure that's great defensively, but, like, there's a lot of different things you can do that. They're gonna miss his passing at the top. Like, that was such a key part of their offense. Hit him in the high post and you cut off him and he's finding guys, you know, DiVincenzo Hart back cuts, all that stuff. And that would be actually a lot of fun with Bridges as well. Like, that would be a lot of fun with that. I just don't see a way where they can kind of. They. None of those guys they have on their roster will replace that. That passing or whatnot. That's. That's just gone when he leaves. And I don't know if there's a way. There's just no way they can kind of just fix that, you know, And I just don't See, the. The. The replacement's gonna have to come from guys that are already on their roster. I don't see them. Once they add. Oh, once they resign, OG and everything, financially, I don't think they have any. Any room to play with it, you know, be a vet. Min is a guy they'd bring in, but, like, I don't see a real replacement for them, and that's just going to be a loss that they're just going to have to deal with on the offensive end. And he was solid for them defensively. Like, he was.
- [12:41]
Dave Dufour
His rebounding, I mean, he was huge. Incredible.
- [12:43]
Mo Daquil
He was huge for them. They're going to miss him. They're going to need a guy like Precious Achua to really step up, and Robinson's got to stay healthy. Yeah. At the end of the day.
- [12:52]
Dave Dufour
And, I mean, this is why I actually think a Randall move probably needs to happen. Like, I think that they need. They need to move that contract and try to get maybe two players a rotation. Big would be great, but I just don't know where you're gonna find that guy.
- [13:10]
Mo Daquil
And who wants Randall?
- [13:11]
Dave Dufour
Like, who wants Randall?
- [13:12]
Mo Daquil
That's the biggest question. I mean, he's. He's good, but, like, I don't.
- [13:16]
Dave Dufour
Like, I thought some of these picks. I thought some of these picks were. Were going to be used with Randall to kind of help get, you know, move off of him. This was the sort of trade mo that I'll be. I'll be honest. I. I thought the Knicks might make an offer like this for, like, Carl Anthony Towns.
- [13:33]
Mo Daquil
Yeah, no, this was.
- [13:34]
Dave Dufour
This was a.
- [13:36]
Mo Daquil
Look, this is a lot to give up for. For, you know, who I think is a role player. Maybe I'm wrong. Right. Maybe he is a legitimate number two guy and that's the end of it. And, And. And, you know, they prove us wrong throughout the. The season, and we're like, wow. No, we were way off in our conversation on June 26, but this is a lot to give up for him. Like, I don't. The other thing that bothers me with the two, Dave, is that this is. This is it. That was your move. I mean, I know they have other draft picks and whatnot, but that was your big swing. And, you know, it's. It'll. It'll be interesting and fascinating to see how that kind of plays out through the course of the. The. The next few seasons, but, man, like, yeah, I'm with you. I thought this was going to be the swing for a number one guy and move Brunson to the two. The second option type situation. But, like, man, this is. It'll be interesting. I love, I love the Knicks going for it, though. I love them going for it. It's more fun when we have that and we can talk about it. Like, the team they're chasing, Boston, you mentioned them earlier, like, they have enough wing defenders. They have a lot of wing defenders now, and that's kind of what you need against a team like Boston, which is who you need to get past in the. In the east, you know, like, that's. That's a great starting point for the Knicks.
- [14:58]
Dave Dufour
Yeah. And by the way, in the east, you know, Kristaps Porzingis is about to have surgery on that injured foot, so he even knows what the east looks like to start the season next year. You know, the Knicks, theoretically, if they. They get a hot start, I mean, they could be in pole position for home court advantage. Is this enough? Mo if they're able to find, let's say they're able to find 80% of what Hartenstein brings to the table for him in a replacement, whether that's internal or external, is adding Mikhail Bridges to what was a pretty good Knicks team that. That got bit by the injury bug. As hard as you can get bit, they would have.
- [15:39]
Mo Daquil
I would have had them get into the conference finals if they didn't get injured.
- [15:44]
Dave Dufour
Is this enough to win the East?
- [15:47]
Mo Daquil
It's enough to compete in the East. You know, like, it's so hard now to say that, right? Like this, these next. Buckle up, everybody. Like, these next two, three weeks, I feel like we're going to see a whole lot of craziness. You know, we got to see what Milwaukee does. We got to see what Cleveland does. What does Indiana do? What does Orlando do? What does Philly do? I feel like you're just looking at all these teams and these. We got to see what all these teams do before we can say, like, is this enough to compete? The Knicks fired the first shot in the Eastern Conference. Right. Like, this is our move. This is what we're doing. Then we're going to sign OG most likely, and then we're going to try to find another, probably a big. To replace Isaiah. And that's their summer, that's their off season, but this was their big swing. Now they're looking at everybody else going like, well, what are you guys going to do?
- [16:39]
Dave Dufour
All right, let's move to the Brooklyn and Houston trade. Part of this, because this is actually, it's a very interesting trade. Mo the Nets have reacquired their 2026 first from Houston in exchange for a 2020 via the Phoenix Suns. So essentially what happened is the Rockets originally got the pick from the Nets in 2021 as a part of the James Harden trade. And then they, when. When Brooklyn moved Kevin Durant to Phoenix, they got the Phoenix pick. And so Brooklyn sends the Phoenix pick to Houston in exchange for their own pick back. So now the. The Nets have set themselves up. If you. If you were able to follow all that, BO The Nets have set themselves up where a tanking season, they get to directly affect it. They have their own pick. So it's not a one of these things where they're just going to be bad and potentially not have, you know, a top three pick. This is the Cooper flag draft, and apparently the. The rest of the lottery is actually pretty good. So this is a pretty clear sign. Number one, they're moving on. Brooklyn is. Is moving into the next phase. They're going to rebuild mode. I expect some of their other guys to be available, but number two, they've kind of helped Houston position themselves to be in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes that we didn't even know were going on right now. Mo this is a pretty good trade for Brooklyn.
- [18:15]
Mo Daquil
Yeah. So first, let's just talk about it with Brooklyn side. This is great for Brooklyn. The picks they got from New York, the picks that they're getting their own picks back from Houston, which was apparently a rumor that they could have traded Mikhail Bridges to Houston at a deadline to get those picks back. It allows them to control their destiny. The most important thing, Dave, because this has been the biggest problem for the Nets for the probably past year and a half, was what was their direction? Where were they going with this? Like, we just, you know, like for. At the deadline when they didn't move him, I'm like, what are you guys holding on to him for? You're not going to be good for a long time. You need to start put yourself in a position to tank. And that's exactly what they did. They just kind of reshuffled everything. And now we're in a position to tank. We're going to have a ton of draft assets. We're going to have a ton of draft picks. If they could find, I mean, if we know, we for sure now know are probably our third tanking team for next season already. Portland's probably tanking. Washington, I'm assuming tanking. I. I lied. Not our third. Charlotte's most likely just. They're just always perpetually tanking And I feel like, you know, Detroit's just going to be bad. So they're just saying, hey, we're lining up here, we're going to tank, we're going to be as awful as possible. And as much as that sucks for fans, I like the idea though of at least they picked a direction and are moving forward.
- [19:35]
Dave Dufour
The total haul that Brooklyn got for Kevin Durant wound up being Cam Johnson and nine first round picks.
- [19:42]
Mo Daquil
Mo, they might move Cam Johnson. Like I don't, you know, like I wouldn't even just say, like I expect them to. Like, I just kind of think like if I'm any other team that needs a wing, a wing defender and a guy that could shoot it pretty well, I'd probably call Brooklyn and go like, hey, I know you're in the market for picks. What's. What, what, what are you thinking here?
- [20:03]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I mean, look, there's the list of teams that could use a wing that can shoot and defend pretty long. Mo, I don't know if you just watched the finals, but those guys were.
- [20:14]
Mo Daquil
All over the place. Yeah, I watched badminton.
- [20:15]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I know you usually just skip straight to the summer. Let's talk about the Rocket side of this. The Rockets now control that Suns pick, which if you just followed what we said about Brooklyn and if you were the Phoenix Suns and maybe you're looking at the next phase for your franchise, which is crazy to say after all the, the talk about not caring about the second apron.
- [20:39]
Mo Daquil
Oh, but Dave, but Dave, but Dave. 29 other franchises would trade positions to be where the Phoenix Suns are right.
- [20:47]
Dave Dufour
Now in Phoenix, with the nice weather during the basketball season and their basketball situation. Well, I'll say this. There's. There's rumors that the Houston Rockets are interested in Kevin Durant. Now this makes sense. It's Kevin Durant. Okay? And, and if you add Kevin Durant to this pretty good young team that can defend the way that, that this team does, you can see where he could plug in. The, the rumors are that the Rockets may be willing to offer Alper and Shingon, which, you know, when we talked about Shingoon middle of the season last year, we were talking about, you know, is he an all star? Is this the number one guy for Houston going forward? Like, is this the key to their young core? This seems like a, a huge direction change to now be considering moving him for 36 year old Kevin Durant, which feels like a win now move.
- [21:44]
Mo Daquil
They're in a win now move. I mean, like, I'll be surprised if they actually end up keeping their pick today in the draft. Like, I think they're in win now mode. You know, IME Udoka wants to win. They almost made a run at the last playing spot last year and just kind of fell short. I. They're in win now. IME Udoka is not in this for a rebuild, like, plain and simple. So I just find it interesting. I love that Houston has that care of. Like, hey, we have your pick. If you guys want to trade him and Tank, you got it. You know, talk with us, you know, and I think that's kind of an interesting situation to put them in. Look, I don't think. My thing is, I don't think Phoenix is trading Durant unless he demands a trade. I. I don't think he's going to. And I say that with such a. Just a. Like, by the time we hit stop. It wouldn't shock me if we get some sort of tweet saying he's demanded a trade and only wants to go to Houston type of situation. So, like, it is what it is, but I just don't see him demanding a trade. I don't see Phoenix doing it. They have to listen, but I don't think Phoenix does this. You know, I think this is going to be one of those things where I think they want to see what they can do with Mike Boudenholzer, with the. With the stuff. Because, again, Bud's also not a coach you hire when you want to rebuild, and you're paying Frank Vogel a ton of money. You're. You're. You're playing Bud now as well, a ton of money. I don't see them going in a position of like, hey, we're going to Tank now. Because I think also if you make that move, I would expect Booker to demand a trade. And I think that's where it gets interesting, and that's where you're like, okay, for Phoenix, the dominoes fall a little bit differently. And then I just don't know why you hired Bud in the first place.
- [23:32]
Dave Dufour
That's why I don't think Phoenix can. You cannot trade Kevin Durant. And, I mean, even if he asked for a trade, I don't know if you can trade him because it's such a massive step back. They. They would not be able to get players to. To keep them in the mix, I don't think. And, Mo, let me ask you. Like, I know that we make fun of the Suns last year for some of the clunkiness. You know, they're three guys, basically never played together. But wouldn't you. If you're Phoenix, wouldn't you want to see. Okay, let's get a full camp. Mike Budenholzer is the coach. We got to see what. What happens. I mean, Kevin Durant is still a. An impactful player. I mean, still one of the 10, 12 best guys. So if you've got him in house, wouldn't you. Oh, are you disagreeing?
- [24:19]
Mo Daquil
He's still impactful, but I feel like it's lessening quite a bit. I. It's. It's. We're. We're seeing him on the downslope, I think, and I think that's kind of something you got to be a little bit afraid of. If you're Phoenix.
- [24:32]
Dave Dufour
If you're Phoenix.
- [24:33]
Mo Daquil
Okay.
- [24:34]
Dave Dufour
If you're Phoenix, do you. Anybody try to get out early?
- [24:38]
Mo Daquil
I don't. I don't. I don't do it for a couple. For everything. We lined up with Phoenix, like, you kind of have to see how this works, see how it works with Bud and see if you can kind of get him going. But, like, there is just a feeling when you watch KD these days, and I'm not trying to say he's watched, but it's just not what he used to be, by the way.
- [24:59]
Dave Dufour
He's 36, right?
- [25:00]
Mo Daquil
Like, that's perfectly fair and fine, right? And Achilles and all these, like, you know, it's like, hey, I get it, right? Like, this is the way this stuff goes. I know LeBron's kind of changed things a little bit, and our expectations are a little bit different, but I just kind of wonder about that for. I don't know what Phoenix does. Right. I didn't like the real trade that they made last year. I didn't think that was kind of very smart for them. I didn't like the. I thought they could have done something better with deandre Ayton and. And. And bringing in Yusuf Nurkic, all that stuff, but, like, it's gonna be an interesting few years for them and how they kind of figure this stuff out, but they can't trade him. And to be honest. And here's the other thing, too. Katie. I don't think Katie can demand a trade. I just. I just think at this point, like, really, like, I just don't. You know, what are you, just a. A ronin traveling the lands and joining a different team each year? Like, what's, you know, like, it didn't go right here. Okay, so I'm gonna move here now.
- [25:58]
Dave Dufour
Like, I don't know what's called a disgruntled employee.
- [26:03]
Mo Daquil
I liked Ronan better. I thought that was more of a fun thing there. But one thing with Houston, I don't think KD is going to be their only target. Like this is the thing. Houston's not going to wait on kd. Ime Udoka is not going to wait on KD or Phoenix to change their mind and make the trade. I think they're big game hunting right now. Like they might, I don't know who, but they might go and try to find somebody. Because the other thing too, that Phoenix pick is a hell of an asset not just to Phoenix so they could tank. It's an asset to everybody. And I think that's going to be really interesting there. I, I am fascinated to see what Houston does more than what does Phoenix do. I'm more fascinated with what does Houston do.
- [26:49]
Dave Dufour
Yeah, I mean Phoenix could be bad by the time that that pick rolls around. The guy I thought mo that was gonna launch everything that was going to be the big domino is Paul George. Now Paul George, his option deadline is Saturday. Free agency starts Sunday night, midnight, Monday morning, midnight, however we describe that time. So we're all kind of waiting on the Paul George decision. It seems like Philadelphia is not happening. The Knicks seemed like a possibility for a couple of days there. They've clearly closed that door and moved on to Mikhail Bridges. Could Houston take a swing at Paul George? We're hearing Golden State's interested in Paul George. Now a trade there gets a little complicated. I do think that Chris Paul salary, you know, helps him get there, but all of this depends on Paul George opting in to make a trade possible. Otherwise he could opt out and just be a free agent.
- [27:50]
Mo Daquil
Okay, I'm going to start with this caveat. I still think the likeliest scenario is Paul George is wearing a Clippers uniform at the start of the season.
- [27:58]
Dave Dufour
I agree with that.
- [27:59]
Mo Daquil
I, I, I, I just don't from the Clippers perspective, I don't see anything that's out there that would really get them to move to trade Paul George or to do a, to, to be okay with the opt in and trade or, or I don't think they can do a sign and trade with the them being over the apron. There's no way to replace him if he just walks in free agency. I, they're moving into a new building. I don't see the Clippers just saying, eh, whatever, we'll, we'll do what you want.
- [28:33]
Dave Dufour
Paul, they're a lottery team. Yeah, they're a high lottery team. Play in team at best, do they.
- [28:38]
Mo Daquil
Even have their pick next year? Because I think OKC still has pick swaps. I mean that I just feel like OKC has everybody's pick now. It's going to be OKC and Brooklyn draft one year. Just back and forth between the two of them. But like I, I just don't see it from the Clippers that. Now to talk about some of the stuff there, like let's talk about the, the Golden State thing, right, If I'm the Clippers, right, because like to make this deal work, you got to include Chris Paul. If I'm not getting Jonathan Kaminga, like it's a non starter for me because I need to get younger if I'm the Clippers. The other thing for me too, if I'm the Clippers, like yo, like they got to decide whether they're going to guarantee his contract or not. He still might get traded somewhere else and get bought out or they might just wave him or whatever. You know, all the things that go through and they, they, they like Chris. Kyle Lowry is also out there, although I think he's still going to end up going back to Philly. Like there's just so many different. Like I don't feel like it's something where like I gotta make the trade, especially to a team I'm going to see four times next season and who knows, maybe five or six depending on the in season tournament when the schedule of that comes out. But like you, I don't think there's a viable way for Paul George to end up in Golden State because I don't think Golden State has anything. They're not taking Wiggins. Like, like, come on. If they do, I'm going to be killing the Clippers. It just doesn't make sense. So I don't see that there are places like for me, Dave, I actually thought, I don't know if I would have liked that trade package that the Knicks gave to Brooklyn for Bridges. I don't know if I might have kicked that one over to the Clippers for Paul George.
- [30:26]
Dave Dufour
They would have taken it, right?
- [30:28]
Mo Daquil
With all those picks. Yes. They don't have any. It's, it's. I think that would have been interesting for the Clippers. I think for the Knicks. It becomes a debate and I'll ask you straight away, Paul George or Bridges, where do you go? We also know the thing about the big thing here that's very important. You said it. Bridges hasn't missed a game since high school. Paul George, health history is scary. Where do you fall if you were.
- [30:57]
Dave Dufour
The Knicks, I mean, talent wise, I think I take Paul George. I mean, it's just. That's undeniable to me. Paul George is just. He's a better player, hands down. But the health stuff, the. I don't. I mean, Miguel Bridges seems like a pretty serious basketball player, and it isn't that Paul George isn't. But I have a hard time with anybody who's podcasting, like, as much as they are. I know how inherently unserious podcasting makes you, but the, the health stuff, I think if you're the Knicks, that probably is a concern for you because you need guys who can play. That's it. Period. But maybe. What if Paul George doesn't have as much juice with the Knicks and so Paul George has to play more? I. I just. I think that the Clippers and the way things operate there is just a little bit different. And, and maybe in a different organization, we get a different Paul George.
- [31:52]
Mo Daquil
It's. It's interesting, but I think there's a lot of stuff that you. You look at with that. And, And I just think the Clippers are in a tough spot. I just. They can't make a move and take a step backward. Like, they just can't. They can't go backwards. It's that simple right now. And I think that's kind of the, The. That's why I feel like they bring George back. There are interesting places for Paul George. Like, I think Orlando would be interesting. I think Houston would be a great landing spot for him. And for Houston, there are things like that, that, that, that make sense, you know, but I don't know. And it seems like Philly has cooled off the idea of, of. Of Paul George, according to reports, which.
- [32:34]
Dave Dufour
That would be a great fit, really, to me, it makes sense. It made sense.
- [32:40]
Mo Daquil
But like, let's. Let's just be honest. If you're Paul George, you're going to go from one injured star to the other. Like, honestly, like, that's kind of the, the, the deal there. And yes, like, when Embiid's right, he's full on MVP level, top three player in the NBA. But, like, are you. You know, I had a fun one that I wrote about a while back, and this was just a crazy idea. Be a lot of fun for him to be in San Antonio with Wemby, but obviously that's not a situation where he's going to win a championship right away, and that's sort of his deal. But, like, Paul George can plug and play pretty much anywhere and I think he, and he automatically kind of lifts you up a level or two. I don't know if he mathematically makes you a contender. That depends on your team as currently constructed, but that's where I think it's interesting. But it is going to be fascinating to see what does he do, you know, and are we going to see a trade before free agency or, you know, on Sunday night, is he going to be a free agent? And, and, and now we're going to see what happens if he opts in. He's getting traded. I think that's the automatic thing and I think that's what's trying. That's what's going to be the next few days for the Clippers, Paul George's agent and, and Paul George to try to figure out if there's something there. If he doesn't, I think he just signs with the Clippers because they can give him the most money, and I think that's where it ends up going. I don't see an extension coming, but I also just don't see a way, I just don't see what happens for the Clippers. I don't see the upside for the Clippers.
- [34:07]
Dave Dufour
What.
- [34:07]
Mo Daquil
Unless we're getting a massive haul.
- [34:09]
Dave Dufour
Mo. Well, what if, what if I get scared?
- [34:14]
Mo Daquil
What if this is an episode of Marvel? What if.
- [34:17]
Dave Dufour
Yes. What if the, the Clippers gave the Oklahoma City Thunder a call, said, hey, we just saw what Brooklyn and Houston did. Would you guys be interested in sending us our picks back? I, I, you know, could it, could it be, you know, a younger player or two and some picks for Paul George? Because, I mean, now they've got Alex Caruso now, which we haven't had a chance to talk about.
- [34:48]
Mo Daquil
I was going to get us in there.
- [34:50]
Dave Dufour
If they, if they added Paul George to that mix, I mean, that's.
- [34:54]
Mo Daquil
Well, look, I don't, I actually don't like it and I think for, for okc, I wouldn't do it. OKC is really, in my opinion, a, a rebounder away from really contending. Maybe a rebounder and another, another guy that can score off the bounce. The, maybe a six man type dude that can just come in and give you, you know, like 15 points in 20 minutes or so, like just something like that. But like, I think now that you have Caruso, I don't think you really need to run it back with Paul George because you still have Dortmund, you still have J Dub, you, you know, you're, you're defensively, I think, solid and, and close to being probably Damn great. I think with, with what you can do on the perimeter defensively, I don't know if the. I add Paul George and there's enough minutes there. I don't know if I give up a ton of assets in that instance for him. Again, we talked about his injury history and whatnot. And for me, if I'm okay. See, I'm looking at the bigs. Who can I get as a big. And I know they want to play five out, all that stuff, but like they need. What hurt them in the playoffs is what we said would hurt them all year, right? Which was rebound. They couldn't come up with the rebounds that they needed and that hurt them. And I don't want to hear any more when I say that. And people get all upset because. No, but they want to play five out and you have to be versatile, right? Or you have to be as goddamn good as Boston. And by the way, Boston was able to do it because Kristaps Porzingis was a key to a lot of that. And I know he missed most of the finals, but that was the, the, the thing there. And I know they're going to try to recreate Boston there with that. Chet's not going to be Porzingis level offensively I think for a few more years in terms of the, the, the threat three point shooting wise or, or in the post, which I'm not sure they're going to develop, which is also a whole other podcast for another day. But they're a, a big man away, you know, and, and, and being able to play big and, or small and having that versatility would go a long way for them. I don't think Paul George fixes that for them.
- [37:04]
Dave Dufour
Okay, before we get back to the show, I wanted to tell you guys about the athletics coverage of the NBA and NHL drafts this week. We got Zach Harper, Andrew Schlecht and friends covering the NBA draft with analysis of all the big picks on the Athletic NBA show right here on this feed. It'll be, it'll hit your feed in the morning. It's a post draft show and over on the Athletic Hockey show, we're in Las Vegas all week. They're covering the draft live from the Sphere. Tune in to the preview shows and the full recaps from each round from Max Bultman and Corey Prauman and more over on the Athletic Hockey show for all your draft needs. The Athletic has you covered. Okay, Mo, just a little bit more news for us to catch up on. It feels like so much has happened since Monday, J.J. redick is the new coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. You happen to know JJ a little bit, worked with him. What do you think about J.J. redick, head coach?
- [38:10]
Mo Daquil
Interesting. Interesting, right? Like, it's funny. Like, I saw stuff where people were like, you know, the, the podcaster turned coach. No, guys, former NBA player for 15 years turned NBA head coach. Like, let's just start there. Like his, his. We've seen players with, with. With shorter careers have opportunities as head coaches and whatnot, and skip the line too. Like, I know a lot of people were like, oh, you know, all. He just goes straight to the top and things like that. It's a very interesting hire. Here's the things I know about jj. He's a worker. He was a worker as a player, he's a worker as a podcaster. He worked his ass off the past few years building his podcast empire and all that. So I don't think there's a question of like, will JJ do the work or whatnot. The most important thing right now for the Lakers is the staff they build around it because that's the thing he needs like one thing being a player. It's something we talk about with assistance. Sliding over to being a head coach. It's a different position when you're in that situation. Like, J.J. is going to realize like, oh, I have to decide what time the buses leave. I have to decide practices, what time, how long, where we're going, what we're doing. I have to structure all the. There's so many different things and there's going to be some stuff that he was like, oh, I didn't know I had to actually be on top of this.
- [39:33]
Dave Dufour
That first time. You got to plug in seven minutes to install. You know, we got seven minutes today to work on our half court offense that the first time. It's so frustrating because you just start to realize coaching is a battle against the clock in a different way than when you're a player. Mo. You know, it's just different.
- [39:51]
Mo Daquil
And, and I don't know, I don't know what his philosophy is going to be like. This is the stuff that's going to be fascinating over the next, you know, basically two, three years as a coach, watching him kind of grow into it. There are going to be growing pains, there are going to be learning curves. There's going to be some stuff that he's not going to do well in the beginning of the season. You hope he gets better towards the end of the season and improves on and whatnot. Like I'm looking at it going like it's an interesting hire. You know, I maybe would have gone with James Borrego and more. At least a coach, a guy that's been in these head coaching positions and, and whatnot. I thought he got screwed in Charlotte with, with how that went. It would have been interesting there. I think this is also a very tough job. I think the Lakers roster still needs a lot of work. I don't know if there was a coach I would say that would come in and be like, ah, they're contenders again. Like, I don't think anything fixes their issues roster wise yet. And I think that's going to be interesting. But it's all going to come down honestly to the staff he has around him. And a ton of names have been floated.
- [40:51]
Dave Dufour
Well, I wanted to ask you about the names because it does seem like a lot of these names are recent former players that haven't coached. And I, I personally think that would be a huge mistake. I think you need to get some people in there that understand how, how a program like works from the coaching perspective.
- [41:08]
Mo Daquil
I would, honestly, I think I would do. My first call would actually be to Stan Van Gundy and see if he wants to live in the same city as his brother who just got hired with the. Just took a job with the Clippers. Maybe they could have an apartment together. We should have a Van Gundy show.
- [41:25]
Dave Dufour
Oh my God, don't do this to me. Oh, oh my God, I do love the Van Gundy's. Oh, oh, now you're playing with my emotions.
- [41:31]
Mo Daquil
Okay, this is the pitch. They need to have an apartment in the Marina together. It's almost kind of like Perfect Strangers kind of esque. Oh, not so much because none of them's a foreigner or anything, but like we apartment in the Marina and we just have that like I want to see who fights over the big TV to do their film study or whatever. And all of these like, yes, Dave.
- [41:54]
Dave Dufour
Yes, this is what we.
- [41:55]
Mo Daquil
Oh, I stumbled on such. The Lakers have to hire Stan Van Gundy. We've stumbled on a great idea. 40 minutes into our podcast.
- [42:04]
Dave Dufour
I.
- [42:04]
Mo Daquil
If this happens, I'm the executive producer. Done deal. Solid. Paul E. Entertainment. Whatever. Hulu. I'm shopping this thing. Done, done, done. Okay, now done goofing off.
- [42:15]
Dave Dufour
Well, unfortunately, I'm now singing the Perfect Strangers theme song in my head. But like, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think you need. The staff needs to be experienced coaches and like Rondo's name keeps coming up Ran Rondo, which I actually am fine with that. But, but man, I really hope that they're, they get elitist, like, get Stephen Silas, like find a lead assistant who has some coaching experience and who's coached for a long time. I mean, just you. There is a way to do this so that, that he, it's, he's mentored and also set free to be creative because I think that this is what the Lakers are, are hiring JJ to do. Like, you know, you look at him when he talks about basketball on his podcast and you know, the, the mind the game stuff that he did with Lepron and you could see, all right, the wheels turn when he's thinking about, about offense in particular offense. I actually would say you need a defensive minded assistant for sure, because it does seem like I think JJ's going to be a little bit more offensively geared. But there's no reason why this can't work. I mean, and maybe it's going to be a situation like Jason Kidd where it, there's some talent there, but it takes some while, a while to kind of figure out a coaching style that works. I don't know. I do think that JJ is going to have a leg up just in the fact that he was podcasting with LeBron. Like, he's got a good relationship there with the best player on the team. So that's going to help.
- [43:40]
Mo Daquil
I mean, that stuff helps, but I think listen good or it lasts until you have a problem in the locker room, like until there's a missed rotation and he needs to say something or whatnot or there's some sort of things like that. The most important thing is the coaching staff. Like I'm at the edge of my seat to see who becomes the staff, who gets hired on that staff. What's the, the deal?
- [44:01]
Dave Dufour
I think bring in Steve Nash, it'll.
- [44:03]
Mo Daquil
Be, I don't mind, I don't mind if you have a mix of young players, young former players and, and, and, and like, I think there's good stuff there that could be had. You know, like I'm, you know, I, let me put it this way, I'm neither pro or, or against Rondo or any young player. They bring in former coach to be a force to me, former player to coach or an old coach or, or whatnot. Like there's a lot of guys out there that you can look at that I think is interesting. And most important thing is they all have to also understand they're moving the boat in the same direction. And the thing that happens Sometimes on coaching staffs is you have to have disagreements, but once the coach decides, once the head coach makes a decision, everybody's rowing the boat the same way. And, and, and if they didn't like your idea, whatever, you can't sit there. And so you got to row the boat for. So that's what J.J. needs to make sure he has within his staff across the board. And I think that's going to be really important. And the one, one more small note. I'll be fascinated to see if he coaches the team at summer league.
- [45:03]
Dave Dufour
Ooh, that's interesting.
- [45:05]
Mo Daquil
That's a, that's, that's a prime opportunity to get reps as a coach. Yeah, just, just we've seen it with a lot of first year head coaches. They do it. It's a prime opportunity to get. Summer league is just as much a training for you as it is a development for some of these players. And I think that's a one thing I will be very interested to see if he does that.
- [45:28]
Dave Dufour
We should also mention Kenny Atkinson hired by the Cleveland Cavaliers. I think that this is a fantastic hire, especially with regards to Evan Mobley. Kenny Atkinson has a track record in the NBA of developing players of all types, not just guards, not just wings. I mean he develops players, makes them better players. We saw this in Brooklyn, we saw it in Atlanta. The he. Kenny Atkinson is the sort of assistant that I'd love to see JJ get in la. You know, Kenny's just. He was a head coach assistant for a few years in Golden State with Steve Kerr, now takes over in Cleveland. I'm assuming you also like that hire.
- [46:04]
Mo Daquil
I do. I. Perfectly fine. I thought they could. They either him or James Bo. I think both would have been a good hire for them. I like what they. They have there. The big questions for them. I mean this is. We didn't even talk about them. There's so much damn news we didn't even talk about. Like all the stuff Cleveland has to figure out. What do they do with Mobley, Jared Allen, Donovan, Mitchell? Does he sign the extension? Does that mean they need to move off Garland? Do they keep the four together and see if Atkinson can make something different work or whatnot? Like there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of moving parts in Cleveland as well. Like they're one of the more interesting teams in free agency and, and to watch in this offseason because of the questions that they're going to need answered. And once they get one answer, it changes. It adds to the next question. It can change.
- [46:52]
Dave Dufour
Well, the Donovan Mitchell question is first.
- [46:54]
Mo Daquil
Yes. And if they sign him to that, I think it was like 200 million dollar extension. If he signs that, boom, they got that. Then the question is, does Darius Garland want to stay? Does you know? Does is that, you know, I don't know if Cleveland wants to move him. What's the appetite there? That's also a guy I've been dying to see play with Wembanyama in San Antonio. I'm just throwing guys out there that I just would like to see if I could build my San Antonio team. But the. I think there's a lot of stuff that's interesting there with Cleveland. So they got the first piece which is they got their head coach important. He'll build his staff. He's not a first time head coach so obviously he, he can have a little more leeway in terms of who he needs to hire and whatnot. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out and then how the rest of their offseason plays out because that could change a lot of things throughout the course of the NBA, folks. I'm not kidding. Buckle up. This off season could get really weird.
- [47:47]
Dave Dufour
The next two days could get really weird. This is. I, I don't, I don't get into news spreading. That's just not what I do. I do hear a lot of stuff. Mo and I had a conversation before the show about what we were willing to talk about that we've heard. We barely scratched the surface. There are so many. There's a lot of slot flying around. Let's just put it that way. We'll see where it all lands. And I think that the fireworks are going to start tonight with the NBA draft. Keep it locked into the Athletic NBA Show. We're going to have a live post game right after. Right after the draft. Post draft, right after the draft, I should say. That'll be in your feeds first thing in the morning. So we'll be all over this. Zach Harper, Andrew Schlect, all of the great people that we've got over at the Athletic, including Modakil. Just pulling double duty today. So make sure you guys check that out. Go and subscribe to the Bounce newsletter. Check out the Athletic Hockey Show. Subscribe rate and review the podcast wherever you listen to Pod Promotakil. I'm Dave DeFore and this has been the Athletic NBA Show.
- [48:54]
Mo Daquil
So much more room with that stuff.
- [50:04]
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- [51:23]
Mo Daquil
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- [51:31]
Dave Dufour
Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
- [51:52]
Mo Daquil
Are you afraid of it?
- [51:54]
Dave Dufour
Of death? Well, I don't. I think about it all the time. How are we here already? Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
- [52:13]
Mo Daquil
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.com.