NBA Draft Prep w Sam Vecenie | Slam N Jam

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – Saturday Slam N’ Jam

Episode: NBA Draft Prep w/ Sam Vecenie

Date: May 16, 2026
Host(s): Andrew Schlecht, Alex Spears
Guest: Sam Vecenie (The Athletic NBA Draft Analyst)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into NBA Draft preparation and analysis with Sam Vecenie, the Athletic’s lead draft expert. The discussion covers draft lottery implications, how top prospects are viewed, what might determine their draft positions, the meta of point guard value, and key stories or misconceptions surrounding this year’s draft class. A lively “lightning round” and intense NBA Draft trivia game (“Andrew vs. The Beat”) cap the show.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Draft Lottery Fallout & Trade Rumors

• [03:07] Jazz/Wizards Trade Scenario:
  • Jazz have interest in moving up for A.J. Dybansa (DeBanza):
    • Sam Vecenie: "If you’re Washington and you’re moving down, the conversation probably starts with Ace Bailey."
    • Wizards are believed to rate Ace Bailey highly and likely want a significant return to move down from #1.
    • Utah’s fit at #2 described as “really positive,” with names like Darren Peterson and A.J. Dybansa favored.

2. Deep Dive: Top Prospects (Peterson, Dybansa, Boozer, Wilson)

• [06:56] Caleb Wilson’s Upside and Weaknesses:

  • Can he be a star if he doesn’t develop a jumper?
  • Sam: “He at least needs to become a functional shooter on some level…He was basically college basketball Giannis this season, but he's much smaller.”
  • Wilson lacks defensive engagement and polished offensive playmaking, but “guaranteed future All-Star” upside physically.

• [09:54] On Wilson’s Defense:

  • Sam: "Coaches tried to attack Caleb Wilson—he was not a good defender."
  • Wilson has the tools to be special defensively, but must improve technique, footwork, and engagement.

3. The Upcoming Point Guard Run

• [13:06] Who Cracks the Top 8 Besides Guards?

  • Non-guards who could jump into the 5-8 range:
    • Aday Mara (7'3" center, Michigan): Passing, finishing, rim-protection—drawn Rudy Gobert/Quin Snyder analogies.
    • Teams like the Clippers might trade down if not targeting a guard.

• [15:07] How Are Teams Differentiating This Year’s Top Guards?

  • It’s all team preference—no consensus:
    • “Most teams have favorites, but favorites differ.”
    • Skill breakdowns:
      • Mikel Brown Jr.: Wild passing creativity, but inconsistent.
      • Darius Acuff: Physical tools, but dreadful defensive year.
      • Kingston Flemings: Best decision-maker/explosive, but smallish.
      • Keaton Wagler: Biggest, best positional flexibility and jumper.
  • “It’s an eye of the beholder situation," and even the top-3 prospects are incredibly close.

4. Creatine Storyline & Player Health

• [19:53] Darren Peterson’s “Creatine” Issue:
  • Affected by severe cramps this season (caused by creatine use); team doctors awaiting complete medicals.
  • “Peterson was the better player in a lot of their matchups; some teams look past the creatine story, some don’t.”

5. Unique Prospects: Yaxel Lendborg

• [21:05] Why Isn’t Yaxel More Highly Valued—Just His Age?
  • His unusual development route:
    • Late bloomer; JUCO star before Michigan.
    • “If he was 20, he'd be the 5th pick in this class. The tax is his age.”
    • Positives: Incredible tools (6'9", 7'4" wingspan), two-way ability, strong improvement throughout this season, buy-in from Michigan staff.

6. Under-the-Radar Bigs & Sleepers

• [26:46] Mrez Johnson Jr. (Michigan):

  • “Incredible defender…could be an all-defense guy in the NBA.”
  • Not much offensive diversity yet, but shooting and short-roll passing are hoped-for developments.

• [28:48] Ibuka Okorie (Stanford):

  • “I have him higher than consensus...He lives in the paint, unbelievable at finding cracks and crevices. But, small-guard glut and teams’ tendencies for size are factors.”

7. The “Small Guard” Meta

• [32:56] Are We Ready for Another Small Guard Boom?
  • “Their value is like running backs now; you can find small guards, but you can’t find 6'7" ‘in the trenches’ guys.”
  • Even successful small guards (Trey Young, Ja Morant) “don’t have a trade market; unless you’re the elite of the elite, small guards are replaceable.”

8. Combine Measurement Talk

• [37:55] Biggest Measurement Surprises:
  • Aday Mara's 9’9” standing reach (near-record).
  • Kingston Fleming’s publicly surprising, but team-expected wingspan.
  • “International guys’ measurements are harder to peg ahead of time.”

9. Lightning Round: Sam’s Takes

• [40:31] Player with Overrated Weakness:

  • Cooper "Co-op" Pete’s shooting described as not fatal to his pro value:
    • “Yes, he can’t shoot, but he’s an ass-kicker, strong, vertical athlete, and just wins games.”

• [42:44] Most ‘Situation-Independent’ Prospect:

  • “Cam Boozer – just an awesome player, will figure it out anywhere.”

• [43:13] Worst Shooter Whose Shot Sam Trusts:

  • “Mikel Brown’s percentages are bad, but he will be a shooter in the NBA.”

• [43:34] Prospect Most Hurt By College Fit:

  • “Darren Peterson – Kansas fit was awful around him, played off-ball next to non-shooters; Drastically miscast.”

• [45:06] Prospects With Widest Range of Opinions:

  • Co-op Pete (some say should return to school, others have him top-15).
  • Chris Ceneac: "Toolsy, but production is all over the map; top-10 to should-go-back-to-school range."

• [47:15] Favorite Projected Second-Rounder:

  • “Richie Saunders. Lights-out shooter, plays defense, can attack closeouts, frame is solid for the NBA.”

• [47:53] Zubi Ejiofor:

  • “Great intangibles, but don’t know how he’ll score at the NBA level. Plus defender, not enough touch at the rim.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:25] — Sam on Caleb Wilson:
  "He sees himself as like a Giannis type of player...but Caleb Wilson is 6’8” with a 7’ wingspan and 211 pounds. Giannis is 6’10” to 6’11”, 250+ pounds—a monster. He’s going to need different counters than Giannis."

• [15:29] — On Guards:
  "It’s an eye of the beholder situation with these point guards. Even at the very top it’s not one clear guy."

• [21:05] — On Yaxel Lendborg:
  "If he was 20 years old, he'd be going 5th in this class. The tax is already happening because he's that old."

• [33:15] — On Small Guards:
  "NBA point guards now are almost like running backs in the NFL—the changeover is happening under our feet."

• [42:52] — On Cam Boozer:
  "Cam Boozer is the answer [to most situation-independent prospect]. He's smart enough to figure it out wherever he goes."

• [43:50] — On Darren Peterson:
  "I really hated everything about that fit at Kansas. Literally all of it. He was just completely miscast all year."

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [03:07] – Jazz/Wizards trade scenario; what it would take to trade up/down at 1-2.
• [06:46] – High-upside case for Caleb Wilson.
• [10:02] – Wilson’s defensive engagement and what needs to improve.
• [13:06] – Likely top-10 non-guard candidates (Aday Mara).
• [15:29] – How teams/institutions are separating this year’s point guard crop.
• [19:53] – The “creatine” story and player medicals.
• [21:05] – Why Yaxel Lendborg didn’t already go top-10.
• [26:46] – Mrez Johnson Jr. offensive/defensive profile.
• [28:48] – The glut of small guards and their potential draft slide.
• [32:56] – Small guard meta—does production override prototype?
• [37:55] – Lightning round: combine measurements and philosophical draft questions.
• [47:15] – Favorite second-round sleeper, Zubi Ejiofor discussion.
• [49:32] onward – Massive NBA Draft trivia showdown ("Andrew vs. The Beat").

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Episode Highlights & Tone

• Expert, casual, and witty tone: The conversation is analytical but approachable, laced with basketball humor and deep knowledge.
• Insider insights: Sam shares specific scout, coach, and front office perspectives, providing substantial “intel” on players’ backgrounds and off-court development.
• Depth & practicality: The show balances “mock draft” speculation with grounded discussions about how NBA rosters and trends drive draft outcomes.

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Recommended For...

• NBA draft enthusiasts and fantasy/roster-build aficionados craving updated, detailed prospect evaluations.
• Thunder and Jazz fans interested in how their lottery position influences their team’s outlook.
• Anyone seeking context behind draft risers/fallers and how NBA front offices actually reach decisions in the lottery.

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Further Resources

• For more, check out Sam Vecenie’s Game Theory Podcast, his Substack, and his upcoming full-length draft guide on The Athletic.
• NBA Draft “Andrew vs. The Beat” trivia fans—stick around to the end for a fun trip through draft history minutiae!

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Note: All ad breaks and non-content segments have been omitted for clarity and flow.

Transcript

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[Andrew Schlecht]

Welcome to the Saturday slam and jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show, we're talking about the NBA draft. We're bringing up players like Braden Buries, Yaxel Lendborg, Kareem Lopez and other really more famous players than that. But those are just some good names that I like to bring into the, the, the NBA sphere. I'm your host, Andrew Schlecht. With me is my good friend Alex Spears. Alex, what's up?

[Alex Spears]

What's up? Andrew? I wish you would use that voice more. I think, I think the show would do better.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You like that voice?

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, I think we'd bring in a new audience.

[Sam Bassini]

What would that audience be between like old timey newsman but also like I Don't even know what that was, but I appreciate it. It was excellent.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's just fun to say names in that voice. You should just try it around your house. And that other voice that you heard is our friend Sam Bassini here to educate us about the NBA draft. We had the lottery happen, and now you get to learn who are these guys, and that's what we're going to do today. Sam, thanks for joining us.

[Sam Bassini]

How's it going, guys? It's good to be here. I am very, very happy to talk about the NBA draft with you, and I'm very happy to be past the combine where there are way too many takes flying around after a set of four days that in the grand scheme of things mean very little when it comes to the NBA.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So we've already gotten a report from Mark Spears that the Utah Jazz have reached out to the Wizards about possibly moving up with the expectation that they'd be interested in taking a AJ debona. Is it debona? Debanza. Help us with the pronunciation first.

[Sam Bassini]

I've been going with debanza. I think it's debona. Honestly, I just, you know, throw my northeast on it and I go from there. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. So if you were Washington, what would it take for you to consider moving down a spot?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, I think that, like, Jazz fans aren't going to like to hear this, to be honest with you, but to me, it's probably like Ace Bailey and number two for number one and like something small. We know that the Washington Wizards really liked Ace Bailey last year. Seemingly they were trying to orchestrate a circumstance to try to get Ace Bailey last year. And I would imagine that if that same front office group, you know, is still in place and they are, they probably want Ace Bailey. Now, if I'm the Utah Jazz, I'm saying absolutely not to Ace Bailey, and I'm moving forward and taking whoever comes available at number two. I personally really like the fit of Darren Peterson, number two for the Utah Jazz. I like the fit of A.J. deBanta, number one for the Washington Wizards. Like, I kind of like the way the lottery shook out for everybody, to be honest with you. But if you're looking at a price point, just given the way that we know that the Washington Wizards liked Ace Bailey last year, that's probably where the conversation starts. You know, is there a chance that the Utah Jazz could maybe throw them an extra first round pick and the Washington Wizards would do it? I don't know if they have like the same grade on Darren Peterson and Debancer and, or Boozer or Caleb Wilson or whatever. And you just decide, all right, we'd rather have the first round pick, that's fine. But I would really, it would need to be a valuable first round pick is my issue.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Like, I wouldn't give up the right to take the guy that I feel most confident in unless I was getting something really valuable. And I think that the three of us probably agree that the Utah Jazz are about to transition into a really positive place organizationally with Lowry, Market and Jaren Jackson Jr. Probably resigning. Walker, Kessler, on top of having Keonte George, this pick, Ace Bailey, a lot of depth pieces that could turn into really good rotation players, including Bryce Sensibon, maybe Cody Williams. Like, they just have a lot there to be excited about. So I struggle to find a deal that like totally tracks between the two of them for me personally. But that's not to say that one doesn't exist. And I probably have different grades on all of these players than what each of those organizations do. Just like every team across the league has different grades on different players. Right. So maybe there's a deal to be had. But I would imagine the conversation with Washington would start with Ace Bailey and I would imagine the conversation from Utah's end goes, we're not doing that. Sorry.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I think back to the false Tatum trade and that King's pick turned into the 14th pick. But at the time that was seen as like a wildly valuable future pick, 100%.

[Sam Bassini]

It was seen as a likely top 10 pick and ended at 14, which, you know, sometimes that happens. But that was seen as a wildly valuable pick when they made that deal.

[Alex Spears]

So you mentioned in your mock draft which is released, you should go check it out. Posted this week, you mentioned in there that quote, the further into the cycle we get, the more I hear from scouts who see Caleb Wilson in the same group as Peterson, Demonsa and Boozer, with some even ranking him as a top three player in the class. Sam, what is the high upside case for Wilson in a world where he doesn't develop a shot, does that super high ceiling still exist or. Or is the ceiling case for Wilson dependent on him eventually becoming a shooter?

[Sam Bassini]

I think he at least needs to become a functional shooter on some level. Like we don't need him bombing eight threes a game necessarily, but he's going to have to shoot it on some level. And the good news is that he feels quite confident from that mid range area already. So I think that that piece of it as a Counter is pretty developable. I know that he just did an interview with Sirius and kind of mentioned that he sees himself as like a Giannis type of player and you know, that's how North Carolina played him. He was basically college basketball Giannis this season. The problem with that is that yes, Caleb is extremely explosive in his strides. He's extremely explosive vertically. He has a good first step, everything like that. Caleb Wilson is 6 foot 8 with a 7 foot wingspan and 211 pounds. Giannis Antetokounmpo is 6 foot 10 to 6 foot 11 with a 7 foot 5 wingspan and is probably now 250 to 260 pounds. Maybe like just like an absolute monster of a human being. I don't really see that kind of frame development for Caleb Wilson personally. So he's going to need more counters, right, than what Giannis has, where Giannis can just be like this era's Shaq, right, where it's more perimeter oriented so he drives downhill and is able to kind of play in a similar way to Shaq, where nobody can just deal with him physically. At the end of the day the process is different but the results are the same, right? With Caleb Wilson I think he's going to need more of a counter of a jumper. I think he's going to need more counters in terms of footwork and spin moves and we're already starting to see that as well. Like we're starting to see him develop in those ways. I do personally have Caleb Wilson like clearly at number four of this group. There are a few reasons for that. Like I don't think he's very good on defense. I don't think he is particularly developed yet offensively in terms of his process as a passer as well. Like a lot of his assists tend to come on set plays as opposed to being within the run of play where he's reading and reacting to things that are happening around him on the court. But undeniably the physical tools are unbelievable and I would project him as a future all Star for sure. It's just that I do have a better grade on these other three players personally. They're, you know, evaluators who feel differently.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Do, do you think he will be a good defender at the NBA level? Because I think a lot of people are banking on that.

[Sam Bassini]

I think that he has every single tool required to be a good defender. I think so like the issue with Caleb right now defensively. So there, there are two things happening. So first and foremost, I did not think his engagement in help Situations was particularly good this year. If you talk to coaches across the acc, they will tell you they tried to attack Caleb Wilson. They did not think he was particularly good on that end. And I have talked to a number of them. They were like, that was our strategy. We wanted to attack Caleb. Defensively. The engagement off the ball was not great. Then on the ball, I think that he stands pretty upright and I think that he struggles to both backpedal and to open his hips a little bit more than what people seem to think because of the level of explosiveness he has athletically, right? There are just a whole lot of different types of athleticism, right? And the way that those traits of athleticism blend together is often what makes a player a star or not a star or makes them a great defender or not a great defender, right? Like Lou Dort is a 240 pound linebacker out there who could open his hips and can really slide and stay in front and use his chest, right? And can backpedal and can do all of these things. He's not nearly as explosive athletically, vertically is Caleb Wilson. He doesn't have the first step that Caleb Wilson has, but his stride is so good, right? And his ability to use his chest is so strong. Caleb needs to work on, you know, with a trainer and everything like that, needs to work on being able to backpedal. He needs to be able to laterally open his hips a little bit more consistently, I think to be able to reach peak effectiveness as an on ball defender. Undeniably, like he has immense tools to be able to be this incredible recovery defender if he works on the engagement, like he could cover a crazy amount of ground when flying around in help situations. It's all kind of up to Caleb at a certain point, right? Like he needs to work on certain things both in terms of how he sees the court, how he anticipates actions and physically on how he's able to, you know, play with a little bit more bend when he goes backwards and can open his hips and things like that. So look, those are the areas of improvement where he has to improve. He's such a, such an incredible athlete that I don't know why I would put it past him to do that, but I think there's just more work there than what some people seem to think. Like he was a bad defender this year at North Carolina. Like he was genuinely quite a poor defender. And I know that block and steel numbers look pretty good, but I'm telling you, just talk to any coach around the acc, watch the Tape, like break down the tape. He was not a good defender this year and there, there's just a lot of work to do. He has every tool to do it is the answer here.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So after the top four, there's an assumption in most mock drafts that a run on point guards will begin. You currently have Wagler, Akuff, Flemings and Mikel Brown Jr. All in a row from five to eight. Which non point guard prospect do you think is most likely to jump into this range by draft night?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, I'll give you two. So I think my answer to this question would probably be a Di Mara. If you made me pick one 7 foot 3 center from Michigan who can really pass, can really play, make, can do a whole lot of different things. He's a great finisher on the interior and when he's set, he's a good rim protector. If you told me Atlanta takes him. You know, Quinn Snyder has a lot of experience with these big rim protectors like Rudy Gobert. I think he would love to have like a big who can pass in the way that a Dai Mara does. Wouldn't blow my mind at all. Like that would absolutely make sense to me. If you told me the Clippers, given that they already have Darius Garland. If you told me the Clippers like really strongly considered a die Mara at number five, like I would get that if I was them. I would probably try to trade down in order to get him. Like if I was the Clippers, the most obvious target here to me is hey, let's convince the Kings to move up from 7 to 5, go get Darius Acuff, whose dad was Scott Perry's teammate in college or not teammate. Scott Perry coached his dad in college and get them to get up to number five and you know, maybe we move down to seven and we take whatever guard comes available and if that's not the guard we like, we just take a Dai Mara like that. That would track to me pretty simply, but we'll see. Like, I think that there are a lot of iterations of what this draft order could become in that range given that, you know, they're teams that have point guards in that range. And this is a point guard heavy draft class

[Alex Spears]

continuing on with, with all these guards. I am interested, as you've been talking to teams, other scouts, what are some of the major points of differentiation that are being discussed as teams try to rank these guards? Like do most people see them as pretty equal and differentiate them based on specific team needs or are you finding a general consensus about like a Clear ranking of them.

[Sam Bassini]

I would say that most teams have favorites of these guards, but the favorites differ from team to team. Is the answer. I don't think it's like, oh, like everyone likes Darius Acuff the best. I don't think it's oh, everybody. And then everybody likes Keaton Wagler and then everybody likes Kingston Flemings and then Mikel Brown is after. There are people you talk to across the league who think Michael Brown has the highest upside out of all of them. It's just that his consistency this year was drastically worse than anybody. If you watch the 4 minute highlight clip of Mikel Brown, it's better than any of those guards. Like, I promise you, the passes, the tight window decisions that he makes, the live dribble passes, the ability to shoot from three. He's incredible in terms of his creativity and things. But like, because he tries to fit everything into a tight window and doesn't know how to take the single right or how to like take the productive out in order to advance the runner, he often makes these crazy passes because he's trying to hit the home run every time. Right? He's like Adam Dunn almost right. And Mikel Brown is an incredible talent, but how do you value that? Do you value your staff's ability to get the most out of him or do you think it's going to be a challenge to do that with Darius Acuff? Right. Darius Acuff was a genuinely awful defender this season. Like, was really egregiously bad, was bad in ball screens, didn't really force turnovers. His engagement off the ball was not very good. There's. He was not a very good defender this year. Some teams value that more than others and some teams think they could fix the defense given that he's 6 foot 2 with a 6 foot 7 wingspan and has like the best frame out of any of these players. Kingston Flemings is quite small and struggles to finish at the rim, but I would say he's probably the best decision maker of the group and is probably the most explosive athletically. I would argue. I'll hear out a case for Mikel Brown on that. I think Mikel's pretty explosive as well. But like, I think Kingston is the most explosive athletically and people think that, you know, we'd rather take that and try to work with the shot and try to work with him on his gathers and he's a really like thoughtful, highly intelligent kid. Like we would bet on that. And then with Keaton Wagler, he's the biggest out of all of them, and has the best. Him and Acuff, I would say, have the best jumpers out of them. I would say Wagler is probably the most unselfish in terms of, like, moves the ball quickest. Probably has the most positional flexibility as well, to be able to play across the one and the two. And there are people who value that a little bit more. So it's. It's an eye of the beholder situation with these point guards. And it's the same way at the top. Right. Like, I think everyone sees A.J. debanza is this. Oh, my God. This is the number one player in the class, like, for sure. And I have him at number one in the mock, and I think I'm going to end up with him at number one. But it's like a razor thin margin for me between him, Darren Peterson and Cam Boozer. Like, I have all three of them so close to one another. And a lot of NBA teams, like, feel differently in some way. Like, some people look at the fact that Darren Peterson has really gotten the better of AJ Most times they've played and they've played quite a bit against one another and look at that and go, well, like, are we really going to be worried about him, like, overdosing on creatine and how that, like, worked this season? Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Or are we going to go off of what we've seen before, including this season when they were on the court and Darren was the better player? Are we going to take the more consistent option with AJ Are we going to take the guy who's won at literally every level at a level greater than AJ And Darren in Cam Boozer? Like, there are just so many. There are a lot of different opinions out there on this class. Really. There truly are.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Have you heard anything else about that creatine story and, like, how that affected him?

[Sam Bassini]

Nothing beyond what he said publicly. And he talked about a little bit more at the combine, you know, just that there was a lot of cramping that would occur and that, like, there was, you know, what did he say to Ramona? That he felt like he was, like, dying on the table at one point because his body was just cramping. Look, like I'm not a medical expert on creatine. Uh, I, I don't have, like, strong. I don't have strong answers on any of this. So at some point, I will talk to team doctors once they get the medical reports on Darren and see where they settle and go from there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I do know, like, if you have those, like, Full body cramps. It does feel like, I mean like it's like unlike anything. So let's talk about Yaxle. You have him mocked to the Thunder at 12. Everyone seems to recognize his value as a two way prospect with great size and the only real knock is his age. Given how valuable his archetype is in the league, why didn't teams value him highly enough in previous years to keep him in the draft?

[Sam Bassini]

So, okay, a fair question. Yaxel's journey is just kind of unlike anybody else's journey is the thing here. So he really like wanted to play basketball when he was younger but got cut from his team as a freshman in high school because of poor grades. He wasn't able to play basketball in his sophomore or junior year because of poor grades, just due to like effort basically. Like he, he's not some like incredibly like dumb human being or anything. He just, you know, didn't put in effort in high school. Eventually decided he really wanted to play as a senior and participated in like a dual enrollment program at a county college to improve his grades. He literally only played the final 11 games of his senior season and got recruited to a JUCO off of those. Was not like a monster in his first year at juco but was really good. His second year was named JUCO All American, was quite good. The third year was named JUCO American and then transferred up to uab, won the AAC defensive player of the Year and was an immediate All American, All American Athletic Conference pick. They made the NCAA tournament like kind of with him being the guy among like him and I think it was Eric Gaines maybe and then came back for a senior season. There was, you know, again, awesome. And that was last season where he entered the draft and was considered, you know, would have gone somewhere, I would say 25 to 40 if you would make me ballpark it. Maybe 20 to 35 wasn't like a locked in first round pick, but it was more just because people were late identifying him. At the end of the day where like there just wasn't a whole lot of comfort there yet. I get the impression he was still like a little bit rough around the edges in terms of like for instance, like so he transfers to Michigan, right? And he's been very open about this. So like I'm fine talking about it. Like he didn't really know the level of work that it was going to take. I guess so like you know, his work ethic and figuring that out on a day to day consistent basis. Right. Was something that was real and like we've seen videos of him, you know, out like, you know, seemingly I'm not, you know, allegedly not, not in his best state. Will go with, you know, talk about Purdue, right? And then there are some moments in post game pressers where, you know, you'll see him kind of make some statements that people question, right? But he got like, if you talk to the Michigan staff, like he got so much better with all of this stuff throughout the year. And I think that's why you see that his journey is just so different than anyone else's and why I'm like a little bit more willing to, you know, kind of understand, like, hey, yeah, he's going to be 24 before he plays an NBA game. But it's not a situation where he like doesn't have tools like Chris Duarte, right? Chris duarte was probably 6 foot 4 with a 6 foot 6 wingspan when he entered the NBA. Yaxel is like 6 foot 9 with a 7 foot 4 wingspan. And I get that he didn't test crazy athletically, but like for someone that big, he tested pretty good athletically, you know what I mean? And I don't know, man, like I. People will say like, oh, like how are we going to take this guy at number 8, number 12 when he's 23 or 24 years old? I'm going to be honest with you. Like if he was 20 years old, he'd be going fifth in this class. Like the tax is already happening because he's that old, right? There's a reason that he was really the runner up for national player of the year this year. He is a 6 foot 9 kid with a 7 foot 4 wingspan who is a monster in transition. Who was if not the defensive player of the year in the Big Ten? No, I think a die won it in. A die was like their third best defender hilariously. He was an all Big ten defender. He was the defense player of the year in the American twice. So he's a really good defender. He can guard at the point of attack. He can play as like a big defensively. He made 37% of his threes. The three pointer goes up and down here and there. It's a bit of a yo yo sometimes. And then he can like dribble and pass as well. Like this is a multi talented kid that just kind of got lost in the system there for a minute just because of like his high school effort and things like that. So I buy him like I buy the player. I, I like the fact that there was Real like growth throughout the year where he didn't like totally, you know, know what he had to do early in the year when he first got to Michigan and then really improved and became, you know, became like a, a worker that, you know, really worked for them. So I, I buy it like I, I buy the player at least in the lottery. You know, I'm not going to sit here and say that I would take them higher than like seventh or eighth, but I do buy him the lottery.

[Alex Spears]

At least we're going to stay at Michigan. Talk about Mrez Johnson Jr. Who you described as one of your favorite players in college basketball. He measured well, combined massive plus 6.5 wingspan, looks like a great defensive prospect. You described his offensive game as essentially a play finisher inside. Are there any flashes or indicators of a more dynamic offensive game down the road?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, like he started to shoot threes this year a little bit. Incredibly hard worker, like unbelievably poised, mature human being who's this incredible worker that, you know, you talk to people, you know, again around that program and they're just like it was him. And it was like Will Cheddar that like were our barometer, that gave us energy every single day because he just brought it every day to every day in practice, every game, like whatever it was. In terms of expanding the offensive game, the hope is that he can shoot. The hope is that he develops like a little bit more vision. I would hope that he can at least be like a short roll passer and like make the passing reads that we see, you know, bigs have to make when opposing teams double guards in ball screens and things like that. You know, I don't know that it's ever going to be a whole lot more than that necessarily. But I think he has a chance to be like a genuinely special defender. He could be like an all defense guy in the NBA. He's genuinely that good on that end. Like he's versatile in ball screens. You can totally just switch with him onto guards. You can play him in drop where he's a little bit less effective but is pretty good. You can play him, you know, as a guy who blitzes ball handlers and recovers because of his speed. He's explosive vertically when necessary. Like he is £250 so you can't go through his chest in the post or even when you're driving as a guard. Like he's just, he's awesome. I am such a Morez Johnson fan.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You currently have Stanford freshman Ibuka Okori mocked to Minnesota at 28. Okori was the second leading scorer among all freshmen this season. Gets to the line a ton. Great handle, plus 6.5 wingspan. Why does A, Corey fall so much further than the other freshmen in this class?

[Sam Bassini]

So, A, I personally have him quite a bit higher than that. Okay. B, there are just going to be fewer teams looking for point guards. Right. Like, we look at the modern NBA and look at how many small guards there are in this class. Right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

We've got Darius Acuff, Kingston Flemings. Keith Wagler's bigger because he's 6 foot 5, but like, it doesn't play all that big. Right. Mikel Brown is six foot three, but, you know, has like an eight, three and a half standing reach. Braden Buries is like six, three and a half, I think. Or was he. No, he might even been smaller than that in terms of the official measurement. What was it? It was. Let's see here. I have the number. It was, yeah, 6375. So it was. Right. So not like a monster, you know, size player there. It doesn't have long arms. And then you have lebaran filon, who's 175 pounds. You have Bennett Sturz, who came in at, you know, six foot two and a half with a eight foot two and a half standing reach. You have Christian Anderson, who's about six foot tall. You have certainly Okorie, who I think was six foot one, if memory serves. So. And then like Tyler Tanner, I would imagine Tanner's probably going to go back, but like, you never know. There's still a lot of small guards in an NBA where those players aren't around a whole lot anymore. Right. Like, you can live with small guards on the court, but they have to be genuinely pretty special in terms of the offensive skill set that they bring. And not every organization feels the same way about having small guards. So one or two of these guys is going to fall into the 20s. Even though I think I'm probably going to have them all, I might have them all in the top 20. It's going to be close just from like a talent perspective. And I, I don't like small guards is the thing. Guys like, I'm not. I'm not a small guard guy. It's just where the value is on some level in this class. So it's. It's tricky, so to speak, specifically to a quarry. I'm going to have a top 20 grade on him, almost certainly. He lives in the paint. He is unbelievable at finding cracks and creases and Crevices. I would guess he goes somewhere 12 to 28, like, somewhere in that ballpark. But it's just going to be wider for these little guards. Like, even LeBaron Filon, who guys like. I'm not joking when I say this. Like, LeBaron Filon did something statistically that literally no other player in the last 45 years of college basketball did. He averaged 22 points, five assists, and three and a half rebounds while shooting 50% from the field, 39.9% from three, and 79.8% from the line. Nobody since 1980 has done that. And look, Alabama's offense is better than everybody else's offense from a spacing perspective. You know, there's a reason that they've been a top five offense each of the last, like, six years since Nate Oates has been there. And he has advantages that other players just don't have because of that. Right. And they play at a crazy pace. So when you pace, adjust his numbers, they don't look quite as impressive. But he still did something that literally nobody has done since 1980. Like, that's wildly impressive. And I would tell you that I think his range is somewhere like 10 to 24, 10 to 23, I don't know, like, somewhere like that. And it's. It's just a. It's challenging to slot these small guards right now. It genuinely just does.

[Alex Spears]

Do you think? Okay, something I've been thinking about is the, like, small guard meta narrative. Just because the small guards in recent drafts haven't been good, could this clash change the meta narrative about small guards on their own because it's such a good class?

[Sam Bassini]

I don't really think it has anything to do with the draft classes. I think it has to do with the fact that you look up and John Morant has no trade market. Trey Young has no trade market. These players that really struggle defensively are just going to struggle to be valuable unless they are the elite of the elite of the elite. And, you know, it's more that. As opposed to how many guards have been drafted, where they've been drafted. Like, I get. I get that Rob Dillingham failed or, you know, is on his way to failing. And I get that Reed shepherd, you know, can't guard right? But, like, Reed shepherd looks pretty solid offensively to me. You know, he might not be, like, a superstar guard, but he looks at least like he's going to play in the NBA for well over a decade. It's.

[Alex Spears]

It.

[Sam Bassini]

To me, it's not that it's More that, like, okay, even if these guards hit and there's. I'm just telling you right now, like, Darius Acuff came close, but, like, what Trey Young did at Oklahoma, like, you guys remember that, right? He was. He was a better prospect than any of these guys. He averaged like 28 and 10 assists. He was incredible there. And, you know, he had a great run. Like, he is still a valuable NBA point guard for sure, because of what he's able to provide offensively. But, you know, they're valuable at a certain level. They're almost like running backs in the NFL where, like, the changeover is, like, occurring underneath our feet, where I wonder if they just start to get paid less at the end of the day.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Because teams don't want to, you know, give as many resources of their cap to a position where you can just find. There are more human beings on planet Earth that are six foot one than there are six foot seven. Right. And there are more beings who are six foot seven than there are seven foot right. You can find small guards who can play. It's not to the level that Trey Young does. You can find small guards who can play and provide, like, a facsimile of value at least. It's just really, really hard to find, you know, in football terms, guys in the trenches. Right. Because athletes who are 6 foot 7, 325 pounds are harder to find than running backs who are 5 foot 10, 200 pounds and can, you know, move in the way that running backs do.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right, we're going to take a quick break. We come back, we're going to go over some lightning round questions.

[Alex Spears]

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[Andrew Schlecht]

And we're back after that quick break. Now it's time for the lightning round. First question, Sam, what's the most discussed combine measurement result?

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, is there a hand width that everyone's just texting you about?

[Sam Bassini]

Oh, you mean like singular result? Yes, like for a human. I thought you were meant like more generally.

[Alex Spears]

No, like a wingspan or a standing reach that everyone was like. Everyone was talking about.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, like a Dai Mara 9. 9 was not, you know, expected. Standing reaches expected to be huge. But like that's like record setting in terms of the standing reach, wingspanish stuff. It's hard. Like, we know what all, like people melted down publicly about the Kingston Fleming number where it was like six, three and a half. But yeah, NBA teams knew that it was probably going to be in the 6 foot 4 ballpark at the end of the day. Like, they didn't think it was surprising that he had that number. I think I've mentioned that he has a 6 foot 4 wingspan. Like on my show this year at some point, trying to think of like anybody else that like really, really stood out there at, you know, I don't know. I care about the measurements to an extent as much as everyone does. Like, they are useful pieces of information for sure. But the thing is that, like, we get measurements on so many of these kids when they're younger, right? And we get measurements on or we have like a vague sense of what the measurements are going to be from talking to sources, you know, close to Illinois. Like, I know the public was really up in arms about Keaton wagler having a 6 foot 6, 6 wingspan or something like that. Like. Yeah, I don't know. The Illinois staff told me he was 6 foot 5 with 6 foot 7 wingspan like in the off season last year. So you know what I mean? Like I knew what that number was going to come in at or pretty close. So I don't know. Like that's one of those questions where I am like it's hard for me to maybe like maybe I missed the forest for the trees. On like what the public is thinking versus, you know, privately. Like I don't get too many text messages on the measurements from NBA.

[Alex Spears]

I was reminded today because I was looking at old Thunder prospects about the topich wingspan. I don't, I don't know if that was a surprise within the industry.

[Sam Bassini]

That one was actually because people thought it was going to be like 610 or whatever and it was like even.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right. Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

But like international guys sometimes the measurements aren't as like well known and you know, there are just fewer international guys now because everyone comes over and plays college basketball.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. Who is the player with a perceived weakness that you don't agree with? So in other words, you don't think it's as big of a deal as others are suggesting?

[Sam Bassini]

Okay, good question.

[Alex Spears]

Thank you.

[Sam Bassini]

Very good question, actually. Oh, thank you. Is there a player with a perceived weakness that I don't think is as big of a deal as what others do? I don't know that I have a great answer to that question, to be honest because I tend to be like the person who gets pretty annoyed by things and tend to harp on the weaknesses maybe a little bit too much. That's a good player. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

If you think, if you think of one you can just shout it out.

[Sam Bassini]

That's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I'm trying to like really come up with one. I would say that yes, co opete can't shoot. That is a factual statement. Copied is also just like kind of an ass kicker and is 6 foot 8 with or he come in at 67 or 6 8, I can't remember but like somewhere in that ballpark he's like £240. He is real like vertical athleticism. He's not like amazing laterally or anything but he's an 8 foot 8 standing reach. He is awesome in short roles. He's shown the ability at lower levels to like play with the ball in his hands a little bit. He just kind of wins basketball games if you go back to any level. Like he won four state titles. He has won three, I think gold medals with Team usa. He morphs and blends his game into whatever role you need him to blend into. I think that dude's just going to figure it out. So, like, the answer might be that, yes, I think the big. I think co opied shooting is a big deal, undeniably, but I don't think it stops him from being a good basketball player. I think is how I would answer that question.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, next one. Most situation independent prospects. So the player that's going to reach their ceiling regardless of where they go.

[Sam Bassini]

I think that Cam Boozer is the answer to that. Uh, he's just an awesome basketball player who will. He's smart enough to figure it out wherever he goes.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, that was an easy one. That was. That was a true lightning round. There we go. Uh, next one. Worst shooter whose shot you are most confident in.

[Sam Bassini]

Oh, okay. I mean, Mikel Brown's percentages are pretty bad, but he's going to shoot in the NBA. So, like, is. Are we going off? Like, everyone thinks Mikel Brown can shoot, but, like, he shot 34% from three this year. I think he's going to shoot at a better level than that. I would say

[Andrew Schlecht]

a player whose draft evaluation is most unfairly influenced by his basketball environment in college,

[Sam Bassini]

The answer here, honestly, like, might be Darren Peterson. Yeah, I really hated every single thing about that fit at Kansas. Literally all of it. He played with two bigs that nobody guarded on the perimeter in Florida, Badunga and Bryson Tiller. He played next to Melvin Council, who's, like, going to be a really good player overseas. And like, I would love to have Melvin Council around my basketball team in college. He seems like an awesome leader, but, like, is not Darren Peterson. And like, Darren Peterson played point guard at Prolific Prep. If you go back and you watch the tape, like, he could really pass and play make and could do some things. And then you look at, like, who he had around him. Like, teams didn't really start guarding Trey White from 3 until later in the year. Council can't shoot. Like, he had no shooting. He played exclusively off the ball until, like, the St. John's game, which was the last game of the year. I do kind of wonder if we look back on the Kansas fit with Darren and we go, oh, like, they just like, completely bungled that year. Even beyond the, like, the cramping and everything like that.

[Alex Spears]

It's my turn. Prospect with the widest range of opinions from teams and scouts.

[Sam Bassini]

There are a couple. Co opied is one of them for sure. There are people who just straight up think co opied should go back to school and learn to shoot. There are people who Think Co opit is like a real top 15 prospect in the class. Chris Sinac is another really good answer here. Has an immense tool set like he is. What is it? He is 6 foot 10 with a 7 foot 5 wingspan but has kind of a long neck and only has like a nine foot standing reach. He's 240 pounds. He tested as like a 99th percentile athlete at the center position because he's like explosive and has a great, you know, frame at 240 pounds. But you watch him play basketball and it's not great. It's kind of just the easiest answer. He wants to be like a mid range perimeter player. He took 140 jump shots this year in half court settings and only took 40 shots at the rim ballpark, which is ludicrous for someone who's that big. He's not a good enough ball handler to be able to handle the ball in tight spaces. I don't think he's a good enough passer yet. And then defensively it's just like all over the map. He has moments where he looks like the best defender on the court. He has moments where he looks genuinely terrible and like Houston had to take him off the court. So you know, depending on the day that you see Chris Cenac even he can be a top 10 guy or he can be like a guy that should definitely be going back to Houston. It's, it's, it's a very, very, very wide range of outcomes for snack.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, last question. Your favorite prospect currently projected in the second round.

[Sam Bassini]

I think my answer to this is probably Richie Saunders. I think that dude's just an awesome shooter. I think he's way better defensively than what he gets credit for. He is somebody who can like actually guard if he can stay in front of you. He's like a 215 pound frame. He can hold his line like he. People don't go through him whenever they try to drive on him. He can attack closeouts and get to the rim. He is a real lights out shooter. I think Saunders like if Saunders ends up at number 30 on my board that won't surprise me all that much.

[Andrew Schlecht]

What do you think about Zubi?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, I like Zubi enough. I don't know how he scores in the NBA is kind of my working problem right now. He's not a good enough shooter and he only made 54% of his shots at the rim and half court settings this year per synergy. So like the thing I wrote in the draft guide is he's kind of, like, if you combined, like, both Paul Reed and Isaiah Stewart a little bit, and both of those guys are good. He doesn't quite have, like, the crazy, insane motor that Paul Reed does, but he's also, like, not the rebounder that Paul Reed is either. It's like, if you took away the rebounding from both, like, Stewart and Paul Reed, where he's really good as a offensive rebounder, but is not very good as a defensive rebounder right now. And to play center, like, that's going to be a really important factor for someone who's undersized like he is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

But he can kind of switch defensively. Like, he can kind of move his feet a little bit. Um, I do buy him as being a plus defender in the NBA. I just need to figure out how he's going to score is kind of my thing right now, and I don't know that I have an answer to that yet.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Awesome name, though, Zubi. Edge of four.

[Sam Bassini]

Great name in genuinely, like, top five in terms of intel reports this year. Like, oh, awesome. Like, incredibly hard worker, great kid. Like, everybody at St. John's absolutely loves Zubi. And like, that. That, you know, whoever you talk to across the board loves them.

[Alex Spears]

Sam, you mentioned the draft guide. What. What is the ETA on the draft guide?

[Sam Bassini]

Oh, God. I'm not. I'm not releasing that date yet because I still have so far to go.

[Alex Spears]

Commit to it. Commit to it right now. You can give yourself a firm deadline I our podcast, and then you'll.

[Sam Bassini]

Early June is the answer.

[Alex Spears]

Okay, Early June. Early June. All right, thank you for answering all of our questions. Is now time to play Andrew versus the Beat? I. I would guess Sam has played this game more than anyone other than

[Sam Bassini]

Andrew, and I probably guess more than anybody other than Andrew.

[Alex Spears]

Yes, but that's a LeBron stat. You know, it's like the LeBron final stat. Like, it's still amazing that you've just been in it, you know? Okay. I always try to do something special. Are you not buying that?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm not.

[Sam Bassini]

No.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No.

[Alex Spears]

I always try to do something special when Sam's on. So this is the little special thing this time is that Each number between 1 and 8 corresponds to a draft slot. So if you ask for question number one, it will all be questions about guys who were selected with the number one pick. Now, that could be really hard if we did the entire history of the NBA. So I have shortened it just for the last 30 years since. That's, like, roughly since we've been following. So going back to the 96 draft.

[Sam Bassini]

We're not digging into LaRue Martin. That's fine. Correct.

[Alex Spears]

Yes. No LaRue Martin. But hey, it sounds like I could have based on your knowledge.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, number one maybe, but not the other picks.

[Alex Spears]

Okay. So, Sam, where would you like to start one through. Oh, by the way, as another warning, this might be really hard. All right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This sounds really hard.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. All right, let's go with number one.

[Alex Spears]

All right, number one again, just the last 30 years, there are only two number one overall picks who never attempted a three pointer in their career. Can you name them Both? You get one point per correct answer. So these are number one picks within the last 30 years never attempted a three.

[Sam Bassini]

So, like, we're trying to find the centers who didn't throw like a random end of quarter buzzer beater.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No heaves. No heaves allow.

[Sam Bassini]

So the first name that came to mind to me is Michael Oluwa Candy.

[Alex Spears]

That is correct. Sam.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay. And I have to name them both.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

No, you get one point per correct answer. So you got a point for that?

[Sam Bassini]

I got a point. Okay. Second answer. Okay. And you went since 1990. It sounds like 1996.

[Alex Spears]

Iverson draft.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay. All right. So rolling through names, I mean, this is just a crapshoot at this point. I mean, I'll say Kwame, but I feel like he probably attempted one at one point.

[Alex Spears]

He apparently did because that is not the correct answer.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Andrew Wommay Brown is wrong. That was going to be my guess.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, no.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Goodness, I don't know. Greg. Odin.

[Alex Spears]

That is correct. Yes. For one point. Great.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was gonna guess Ben Simmons as a joke if I couldn't think of anybody else.

[Alex Spears]

All right, Andrew, board is yours.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Number two.

[Alex Spears]

No franchise loves a specific draft slot. Like this franchise loves the number two pick. Over the last 30 drafts, this franchise has picked second five different times. What is the franchise?

[Sam Bassini]

Before he answers this, can I hit the pause button? Is this. Is this before trades or is this after trades?

[Alex Spears]

This is. They actually played for this franchise.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay, cool.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Unpop.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So. Oh, my number two pick over the last 30 years.

[Alex Spears]

30 years.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Alex Spears]

One sixth of them have been made by this franchise.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. That's wild. God, I know the Lakers had like a run on those, but I don't. I'm trying to remember if they had any more. I know Memphis had a couple, but I don't know if they had enough. I guess I'll. Okay, maybe this is the Grizzlies. Maybe we're counting Vancouver. The Grizzlies.

[Alex Spears]

We are counting Vancouver because it is the same franchise. So that is two points for Andrew.

[Sam Bassini]

That was where I was going because. What? It's Pal Gasol. John Morant, Hashim. The Beat. Who else?

[Alex Spears]

Not Pow. I think Powell was third.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Triple J.

[Alex Spears]

No, he went fourth.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh. Who was. Who am I thinking of then?

[Alex Spears]

Stro. Miles Swift.

[Sam Bassini]

Yep.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Stromile Swift.

[Alex Spears]

And then Jaw. Steve Francis.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Machine. The Beat. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Sam Bassini]

Time out.

[Alex Spears]

What? What? Which one? So which one?

[Sam Bassini]

Steve Francis.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He was traded.

[Sam Bassini]

He just got traded by Houston. So you answered my question incorrectly that I asked beforehand.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Got traded to Houston, Right?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Didn't want to play for them.

[Alex Spears]

Well, you know,

[Sam Bassini]

things happen.

[Alex Spears]

It was kind of close to being correct. Yeah. I don't know if a team's ever.

[Sam Bassini]

I'm sure it's still Memphis. I'm sure you're right.

[Alex Spears]

Lakers got me thinking, though. Okay, Sam, board is yours.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay, I'll go. We'll just. We'll go three. Why not? Let's go crazy.

[Alex Spears]

Why not? Because this one's hard. Outside of the number one overall pick, the most valuable draft slot in terms of all stars is the third overall pick, which has produced 15 all stars over the last 30 years. Half. Wow. How many of those 15 made an all Star Game with multiple franchises? Good luck. You don't have to tell me the players. You just have to give me a number.

[Sam Bassini]

I just need a sheet of paper, so.

[Alex Spears]

All right. Sam's getting out a sheet of paper. Sit tight, listeners.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I just need a sheet of paper.

[Alex Spears]

Just need a sheet of paper and a writing utensil.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. So I've got one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

Good start.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

15. 50% hit rate.

[Sam Bassini]

I'm gonna say 4.

[Alex Spears]

4 is incorrect, Andrew.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

Made an All Star Game. Multiple franchises.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my gosh. I'm guessing it's more than four, but I'll say six.

[Alex Spears]

Six is correct, Andrew. Yes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Good guess.

[Alex Spears]

It was Luca.

[Sam Bassini]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Harden. Al Horford. Darren Williams. Mello.

[Sam Bassini]

That one.

[Alex Spears]

And Pau Gasol.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

All right, Andrew, board is yours.

[Andrew Schlecht]

4.

[Alex Spears]

Over the last 30 years, there are two number four picks who were selected to 10 or more All Star games. To get the two points, you have to name them both.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Number four overall picks that have been on 10 or more All Star teams. Correct.

[Alex Spears]

You have to name them both to get the points.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is this Westbrook and Chris Paul?

[Alex Spears]

No. I trapped you. Yes. That's why I asked that question. I knew you would say Westbrook. He's been denied. Andrew. Got you.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right, Sam Dion. Waiters.

[Alex Spears]

Really good guess.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay, so that is wild that Westbrook only went to nine. That is kind of funny.

[Andrew Schlecht]

God, that one felt like such a sure thing in my brain.

[Sam Bassini]

It really felt like a layup.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. That was such a good trap. I didn't know if you would fall for it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I did. I fell right for it. Dang. Was too obvious. That should have gone. That should have sent alarms off in my brain. That. That's like way too obvious. Dang it.

[Alex Spears]

It's good to know I can still trick you like that because you have been getting smarter.

[Sam Bassini]

I got.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I felt like I got caught off guard there, so.

[Sam Bassini]

Oh, man. Oh, no. Now I'm. I'm confused in my head which one it is.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, no, you can. You can talk it out live because Andrew can't steal the points from me.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I've already.

[Alex Spears]

I mean, I can't answer, but maybe

[Sam Bassini]

Andrew, this is gonna.

[Alex Spears]

What was that second name you said?

[Andrew Schlecht]

5647. Noted.

[Sam Bassini]

See, the problem is I can't remember who went third in the 2003 draft or who went fourth in the 2003 draft. It's either Chris Bosch or Dwyane Wade. And for some reason, I think it's actually bosch who went four. I think Wade went five.

[Alex Spears]

Is that your final answer?

[Sam Bassini]

But did Bosch make 10 all star games? I don't think he did. I'm gonna say Wade. I'm gonna say CP3 and Wade.

[Alex Spears]

It was CP3 and 11 time all star Chris Bosch.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, no.

[Sam Bassini]

The problem was I didn't think Bosh had made 11. I thought the problem there was that I thought that Bosh went fourth. I didn't think he'd made 11 all star games.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It feels impossible that Chris Bosh made more All Stars than Russell Westbrook. To me, doesn't that seem weird?

[Alex Spears]

That's why it's such a good question. That's why it tricked you so good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I got real good. Dang.

[Sam Bassini]

I deserve that one. I honestly. I deserve that one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Sam Bassini]

For outthinking myself.

[Alex Spears]

You both out thought yourself. I guess Andrew didn't think hard enough. Sam, board is yours.

[Sam Bassini]

We'll go five.

[Alex Spears]

Pick five is unique for having the greatest number of prospects drafted who did not attend college in the US with eight. And we're going to name them all. So how this works is Sam will give me a name, then Andrew give me name. We'll go back and forth to one of you stumbles. So this is. These are players who are drafted at pick five who did not attend college in The US So that when you go on Basketball Reference, it's blank in that little section. And there's eight players who qualify.

[Sam Bassini]

Sam, we're just going to start with a banger and we're going to go Nicholas Skittishville.

[Alex Spears]

Great draw. Listen, I probably would have saved that one because I don't know if Andrew would remember it, but that is a really strong start.

[Sam Bassini]

Wanted to start strong just to make sure we got there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was not getting Tuskedeish feeling. Wow. Ricky Rubio.

[Alex Spears]

Yes, Ricky Rubio. One of my favorite players.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I know.

[Alex Spears]

Back to Sam.

[Sam Bassini]

So didn't go to college. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Remember how much we wanted the Thunder to take Rubio?

[Alex Spears]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We were so Rubio pilled, man.

[Sam Bassini]

Were you really?

[Alex Spears]

Well, yes, because at that time, there was a large contingent of Thunder fans, media, who did not see Westbrook as a point guard. And it seemed obvious that you could just move him to the two. I mean, when Eric Maynard came to okc, there was, like, legitimately people saying, like, I think Maynard should start. Move Russ to the two.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's true. That's.

[Sam Bassini]

I need to, I need to stop and think here while we're talking. So. Did not play at all in college.

[Alex Spears]

I don't know why you're asking that. I, I, I want to say yes, they did. All I can. All I'm going by is Basketball reference. Not having anything under college. You know how it's just blank when it's either international player or just someone who didn't play well.

[Sam Bassini]

We're also deep into, like, the high school era, too. Is the thing there?

[Alex Spears]

So, like, true, True. Yes. There are high school guys.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay. I'm, like, really trying to think through. My brain's like, in a pretzel between the Euro guys and the college guys. And I'm, like, trying to think through some answers. It's funny that I had Skidda to start and then I know that made

[Alex Spears]

me feel like, you knew we're going to know all of them. It's like, wow, he's starting there.

[Sam Bassini]

It's just not the way my brain works. Like, the ADHD addled portion of my brain sends it, like, 45 different directions, and then I have to, like, stop and, like, think through for a second. Okay, number five. Overall, that is gonna be. Oh, he didn't go fifth. That's annoying.

[Alex Spears]

And this is not a hint, but just didn't play. Didn't go to college. Just didn't go to college. Could have gone somewhere else.

[Sam Bassini]

I'm just, like, trying to now Dig through, like, recent drafts. I guess that'll probably be the easiest way to do it. Asar Thompson.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

Sar Thompson. Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think Hazonio is fifth.

[Sam Bassini]

He was.

[Alex Spears]

Mario Hzona was fifth.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

Zonia was one of those players where people, and by people, I mean me, believed him. Believed that something was going to happen with him way after I should have stopped believing.

[Sam Bassini]

He's. He's like an awesome player overseas. Like, it.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, is he really?

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, he's going to be amazing, too.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, vindicated, then.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I thought it was going to be awesome.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay. Yeah. I'm literally just, like, digging through. So not that draft. Yeah. I mean, this is just one of those things where my brain just, like, doesn't work on these questions. Okay. And we can edit these and make them shorter.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We can.

[Sam Bassini]

We're good.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, we can.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. We're not live.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, not at all.

[Alex Spears]

This is having to think of draft spots beyond just thinking of, like, what year.

[Sam Bassini]

Multi factor. Yeah. That's the thing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm struggling.

[Alex Spears]

There's a lot of levels.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I feel like I have an answer, but I'm unsure if they went fifth.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. Oh, no, that's not one either. That's annoying. It's funny. So the Cade draft is. It's not either. I was sitting there going like, oh, yeah, like Gideon Kaminga. But they both. They went six and seven.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

That's annoying.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Giddy was six. Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Huh. Okay, keep rolling back.

[Alex Spears]

Andrew, do you have one? Locked and loaded?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I do.

[Alex Spears]

Ooh, I bet I have an idea who you have.

[Sam Bassini]

So, like, my brain just went to Martell Webster, who went sixth. Not fifth.

[Andrew Schlecht]

High schooler. Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. No, too early. Eddie Curry and TYSON Chandler went 2 and 3. 2003 is out because of the Bosch Wade disaster that just happened.

[Alex Spears]

Martell Webster's nickname was the Definition.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The Definition Webster.

[Sam Bassini]

Pretty funny. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The Definition.

[Sam Bassini]

Can't say I knew that, but it's pretty funny.

[Alex Spears]

Man, that draft was rough.

[Sam Bassini]

That was a bad one. Yeah. Okay. Oh, no. That's not one either. Thought I had Dragan Bender. It's not Dragon Bender because he went fourth overall.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, that would have been a good guess for. For a brief moment, I did think he went fifth, even though I'm staring at the names.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, he did not. Feels like a fifth overall pick. Feels like a second overall pick. Honestly, given how bad that spot has been. Yeah, I'm missing obvious ones. Why am I missing obvious ones? I'm digging too deep into the archives is the problem.

[Alex Spears]

I feel like this question is Going to break Sam.

[Sam Bassini]

It actually might. Because who went that year?

[Alex Spears]

And that was the last question ever on Andrew versus.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, it really is. All right, I'm going to call it. I'm going to call it. This is bad, bad podcasting.

[Alex Spears]

Okay, you want. You want to just throw out a name?

[Sam Bassini]

The problem is that, like, I can't think of, like, I'm going deep into, like, the names and like, it's just like there are too many names. My brain is too scattered. Name that I will throw out. I don't know. It's like Alex Len went to Maryland, but like, that's. That's what I was thinking originally. Like, he went fifth, but, like, he's from Ukraine. So, like, Alex Len will be my answer, but it's not.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right, right, right, right.

[Alex Spears]

Andrew, what was the name you had?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Exum.

[Sam Bassini]

Dante Exum. Yeah, that's correct.

[Alex Spears]

Now, there was a name because you said Asar. I thought you might get the other name. Who did they draft the very next year?

[Sam Bassini]

They drafted Ron Holland. That was stupid. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And then the other two names. Jonas Valanchunas.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. Okay. And then Vezily went sixth, but he didn't go fifth.

[Alex Spears]

Vezli went sixth. And then the other name. High schooler. Indiana Pacers.

[Sam Bassini]

Jonathan Bender.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Jonathan Bender.

[Alex Spears]

Jonathan.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, Jonathan Bender.

[Sam Bassini]

Should have got Holland. Don't feel that bad about the other ones. Jonas was gettable, but, like, I would have had to, like, really dig.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, Andrew, I forgot to give you a point for that. All right, board is yours, Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's go. Number six.

[Alex Spears]

The sixth overall pick is the only draft slot where more than two of the selections in the last 30 years finished their career with negative win shares. Who are the three number six overall picks who are no longer in the NBA and had negative career win shares? One point per correct answer. Now, Trey Johnson does have currently, but he's obviously a rookie, so he's not included in this. These are guys who. Their careers have already ended, they're out of the NBA, and they have negative career win shares. Drafted sixth overall.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my gosh. What about Yan Leon?

[Sam Bassini]

No, the chairman. He.

[Alex Spears]

He must have had positive. Cause he was drafted six, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he was. I think he was.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, he was. Let's go look up his win shares. Career win shares, 3.1.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Turns out good.

[Alex Spears]

He actually did, man. You ever get on YouTube late at night and you find yourself watching like a 20 minute Yanji Jelan documentary made by just some random guy? No, because I was doing that not too recently.

[Sam Bassini]

Never ever.

[Alex Spears]

And he Had a year. He had a year in there. 1.6.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Was it with the Nets? Who was it with?

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, it was with the Nets. It was his career year. True. Shooting 48%.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

Okay, Sam.

[Sam Bassini]

So I did just mention one of these names. Jan Veseli. Feels like a real potential answer here.

[Alex Spears]

It does feel that way, but it is not correct.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

Let's look at Jan Vesely. What is his career win shares 4.

[Sam Bassini]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

Wait, was yon Wesley. Wesley. Was yon Wesley good?

[Sam Bassini]

I mean, again, just retired overseas. Has been one of the best players overseas or was one of the best players overseas for quite a while. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

Well, I would say there were indicators for wind shares, the names. You guys are going to beat yourself up over some of these. Actually, now that I'm looking at one of them, it can't be correct. Duan Wagner.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No, I would not have gotten there.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, you wouldn't, but you might have gotten this one. Jarrett Culver. And then Johnny.

[Sam Bassini]

I honestly thought Vesli was worse than Culver. Is why I said Wesley. So.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Johnny Flynn.

[Alex Spears]

Johnny Flynn.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Poor Johnny Flynn.

[Alex Spears]

I know.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Did not work. Did not work for Johnny Flynn.

[Alex Spears]

Okay, so no points there. Sam, would you like 7 or 8?

[Sam Bassini]

Let's go 7. Why not? Let's go.

[Alex Spears]

Are you sure? Because you've been going in order and I. I wouldn't.

[Sam Bassini]

I was going poorly. Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Spears]

You don't want to mix it up.

[Sam Bassini]

You know what? We'll mix it up just for you. Alex.

[Alex Spears]

The eighth pick. The eighth pick has not produced an all star or all NBA player in the last 30 years. It's the only draft slot that you can say that for.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex Spears]

It is also the only draft slot of the first eight that doesn't. Has not produced a 20,000 point career score. Every other slot has at least one of those. Can you name the two number eight picks with the most career points over the last 30 years? And you do get one point per correct answer.

[Sam Bassini]

Oh, my problem is my mind went to DeRozan immediately. But I think that DeRozan must have gone ninth then because he definitely has 20,000 points. Okay. The most points without scoring 20,000 in a career. Drafted eighth, drafted eighth overall. He went seventh. So it's not that answer.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Franz might be like the best 8th overall player ever. Or at least the last 30 years.

[Sam Bassini]

Going to be up there. Definitely going to be up there. Okay. Think through this a little bit more.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, he's already at 6200.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. No, Franz will be the guy. Probably. Eighth overall.

[Alex Spears]

I Will say that there's a player that I associate with the eighth pick. When I think of the eighth pick, I think of this player.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Sam Bassini]

I don't know why my mind is the number 8 pick that you think of or no. I think Joe Alexander went ninth too. But I was going to say, is it Joe Alexander you associate with 8th?

[Alex Spears]

It is not.

[Sam Bassini]

What a shame.

[Alex Spears]

And I will say that I almost did a question where the answer is going to be Joe Alexander because he has some. He has some stats.

[Sam Bassini]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

Or lack thereof.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, he definitely had some stuff going on there. Okay. Did not go in.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

I think he was the only

[Andrew Schlecht]

top

[Alex Spears]

eight pick who played fewer than a thousand minutes. I think that was the stat that I was.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, wow. Eight thick is just full of like some okay dudes.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. Right.

[Alex Spears]

I would say the best.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, dude.

[Sam Bassini]

The best.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, dude.

[Sam Bassini]

Okay, dude. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is that a hint?

[Alex Spears]

I'm just letting you know there is a player I associate with the 8th pick. Every time I think of the 8th pick. Every time I think of the number 8, I think of this player.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And you think he's the best. Okay, dude.

[Alex Spears]

He's. He's better than okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's better than okay.

[Alex Spears]

But. But also he's the. He's the best.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's the best, dude.

[Sam Bassini]

Kentavius Caldwell Pope.

[Alex Spears]

That is wrong. But he was third on the list. That gives you.

[Sam Bassini]

Gives me like a small amount of solace, but not a lot.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. Uh, Andrew is the best.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, dude. Rudy Gay.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Rudy Gay.

[Sam Bassini]

That's a good answer. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

That's who I associate with the number eight pick.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's funny.

[Sam Bassini]

And he's gotta be the answer, right?

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one of the answers.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, he.

[Alex Spears]

He's number two on the list. And number one. Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

There's a player who scored more than him that I don't associate with the eighth pick. When I saw he was taking eighth, I was like, oh, I didn't remember that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I just don't know.

[Alex Spears]

Would you like to pass to me?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I can't think of somebody that would have scored more than Rudy Gay.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah. I think Chris Kamen went sixth, so it's not Chris Kamen.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He did.

[Alex Spears]

He's a current announcer in the playoffs.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Current announcer in the playoffs is Jamal Crawford.

[Sam Bassini]

He went eight. I thought he went a little bit later. Okay.

[Alex Spears]

See, See, I felt the same way.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Sam Bassini]

I thought he was like late lottery, so. Yeah, I mean, I guess he's back half, but yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Okay. Okay, Andrew, final question.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

For the seventh pick, I want you to add Donovan Clingan's career three pointers made and Jeremiah Fear's career blocks and tell me what number you get now. You get to choose who answers first. You can make same answer first and you go higher, lower, or you can answer first and Sam goes higher, lower. So Donovan Clingan, career three pointers made. Jeremiah Fears, career flux. This is a psychotic question. It's not usually they're like, you know, the answer is like three.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This one? Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

This one's not three.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No, it's not three because Clingan will take him. I don't know how many he made, but he'll take them. Three pointers made for his career.

[Alex Spears]

For his career. And then Jeremiah Fears career blocks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He kind of took a lot this year.

[Alex Spears]

Do you think. Are you thinking about guessing or are you going to pass to Sam?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm definitely guessing. I'm just trying to figure out what number even makes sense. Andrew's definitely guessing for a question like this because Clingan, he took him.

[Alex Spears]

And if you're trying to get the exact answer, I will say that I also included playoff three pointers for clinging.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You included playoff three pointers?

[Alex Spears]

I mean, if that dramatically changes your.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No, I mean, I don't think it would dramatically change it, but I just don't even. I can't even think of a number that makes sense. For Fears for his blocks. I'll say 100. 23.

[Alex Spears]

All right, Sam, would you like to go higher or lower?

[Sam Bassini]

Definitely saying lower than that.

[Alex Spears]

So Jeremiah Fears in his rookie season totaled 30 blocks.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Donovan Clingan in his career has totaled. Trying to make sure I did the math right. I don't think I did do the math right. Did I? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. Shut up, shut up, shut up. I did the math right. No, I didn't. All right, hold on, I just gotta ask.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No way. Really?

[Sam Bassini]

This is incredible happening right now.

[Alex Spears]

I was off by one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

Donovan Klingon's career three pointers made 103 for a grand total of 133.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, wow.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Huh. I thought he would make over a hundred because I didn't know how many he took and made last year. I know he took and made a lot this year.

[Sam Bassini]

Last year was how many made in the playoffs?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He.

[Alex Spears]

He was taking them this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he was. He was chucking.

[Sam Bassini]

Yeah, There. There was a good stretch, like in the back half of the year. He was making like a good, like 1 to 1.5 per game.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

He averaged 1.1 per game made for this season.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that's pretty wild. He's, he's interesting player for sure. Okay, go check out Game Theory podcast. Go check out Game Theory substack. Go check out Sam at the Athletic mock draft. What else you got cooking? Samvasini? Obviously we have the draft guide, but we're, we're a little ways away from

[Sam Bassini]

that pure sadness from getting annihilated in trivia again.

[Alex Spears]

Sam's cooking up some pure sadness this week.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Cooking up pure sadness madness. Sam Basini.

[Alex Spears]

Sam's gonna do a breakdown of Andrew versus the beat on the sub stack.

[Sam Bassini]

Please don't. I'm just going to be sad. I will explain all of my emotions and they will be sad. Guys. No. Yeah, look. Off season preview series starting on Game Theory starting on Monday. So go over there. We're starting with the Lakers, Hornets and Celtics. Those are the ones we've recorded already. I know that those are going up next week. We will have draft stuff over at Game Theory. We will certainly have a lot of draft stuff over at the Athletics. So just go there. Yeah. Appreciate it, guys.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Go check it out. Thank you guys for tuning into this week on the Saturday slamming jam. We'll talk to you guys again next Saturday.

[Alex Spears]

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[Sam Bassini]

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[Alex Spears]

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[Alex Spears]

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[Sam Bassini]

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[Alex Spears]

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