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The Athletic NBA Daily
NBA Finals Game 7 Preview with Caitlin Cooper and Sam Amick | Slam N Jam
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- [00:00]
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Host
Welcome to the Saturday SL Jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show we're talking to Caitlin Cooper about the NBA Finals Game 7. And we are talking to my good friend Sam Amick about a little bit of finals, but then some off season stuff. Kevin Durant rumors. Is that actually going to happen? Memphis, you know, making moves with me as always is my good friend Alex Spears. And Sam Amick joins us. Sam, where in the world is Sam Amick?
- [02:34]
Sam Amick
I've let you guess, Andrew. It's only one or two places these past couple weeks.
- [02:38]
Host
Are you still in Indianapolis?
- [02:42]
Sam Amick
No, I did the media charter plane which the good news is it's a direct flight. The bad news is it's not always that conducive to sports riders schedules. So late night, early morning. Forgive the the casino voice that's coming your way. Which by the way is is not as good as I'm digging your Game seven voice. I think we need more of that Game seven voice.
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Host
I guess we're all in the same city now, which is. That's. That's quite rare. I guess we could have just done this here at down to Dunk Studios here in person, by the hotel.
- [03:20]
Sam Amick
Yes.
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Host
Yeah. Sam, you. You've been covering the finals. You've been at all these games. We have Game seven on Sunday in Oklahoma City. What's your thought on where everything stands?
- [03:36]
Sam Amick
Pretty shocked. Like a lot of people, and weirdly and unexpectedly kind of stoked from a coverage standpoint. You know, as you guys know, it's like, we don't, you know, like, I'm not. Look, I don't root for teams. I root for stories. And I just keep seeing this Indiana team survive and. And going, my goodness, I did not expect to be here. And it's funny, there's a threshold, too, with media members, a lot of them, where we're very guilty of forgetting how privileged we are to cover this stuff. So it's like going into Game six, there's a lot of folks that were like, all right, let's go, Thunder. Let's go home. You know what I mean?
- [04:17]
Host
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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Sam Amick
Then they lose, and everybody's just. Then you. Then you kind of snap out of it and you kind of go, wow, this is a Game 7 in the NBA Finals. You know, the type of thing that doesn't happen all that often. Not since 2016. I was lucky enough to be at that one. What was the other one? 2013? Heat. Spurs.
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Alex Spears
Yeah.
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Sam Amick
So, you know, they. I've done a few in my day. And again, to your question, it's just very, very surprised because truthfully, I didn't see the Pacers much this year, and they're just not one of those teams that I had a pulse on at all. And so that has made the reaction even stronger because while I respected the kind of wizardry that they put together to get to the finals, I had been watching OKC and how dominant they were for quite some time by the time I saw the Pacers and did not see this coming.
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Alex Spears
What's been your impression of the Thunders reaction to last night? Like, you were at the post game press conferences. Was there any surprising things that came out of that or just their approach to being beat down by that much?
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Sam Amick
So I don't have a ton of color for you, Alex, only because I went to the Pacer side and I wrote about. But I will say that some of the reporters who were on The OKC side were, you know, admittedly, kind of snarkily joking about how, like, the Thunder are not typically the type that. That fill up a quote sheet with. With cander and. And, you know, spicy reaction. Anyway, but the. The reports I was getting back was that they were particularly muted, and nobody really believed, you know, some of the cliches that they were, you know, kind of putting out there after the loss. It just sounds like they were kind of robotic. Andrew, I don't know. I assume you went to that side. Would love to hear your thoughts on that, but it seemed like they were not necessarily telling folks how it really felt.
- [06:24]
Host
Yeah, I. I went to the locker room instead of the podium just because I wanted to see, just, like, catch the vibe in there. And it was. Muted would be the right word. It wasn't. Because it wasn't, like, somber. It was just that they were just there, and there was, like, a little bit of, like, joking around here and there, a little bit of talking here and there, but, you know, it. There wasn't a whole lot to it. And then when you talk to him, like, yeah, like, there were a ton of things that we could have done better. You know, Caruso, I asked him, like, what are the things you can control for Sunday that you didn't tonight? And he started listing things out, and then by the end of his list, he was like, yeah, pretty much everything. So, you know, I mean, they. They know that they didn't bring the necessary energy. Dort talked about that. I thought that was, like, really interesting. It's like, we. We didn't come to play is, like, almost like the message from them, and it's just funny. And I guess this is when people talk about their immaturity at times or just their. Their need to kind of grow a little bit. And talking about their age, like, these are. I think these are these moments where you can't. Sometimes you just can't manufacture desperation. And, you know, the Pacers were desperate. Like, they had to win or their season's over. And the Thunder knew that they had this backstop of Game 7 that was going to be there no matter what. They were going to have another game. And I want, Like, I just think that mentally, emotionally, like, getting to the place where it's like, no, we're just going to go kill them anyways. I just don't know that the Thunder have that in their bag yet. And what we do know they have in their bag and they've had it all playoffs, is that they respond in moments like this. And so I wonder if that's kind of where they are mentally. It's like, yeah, we've been in this place before, several times, and we know how to respond. And I think that they're ready to respond, but, like, locker room was just pretty quiet for the most part.
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Sam Amick
All of that is really interesting. That is similar to Game four, where. And the sleep deprivation is getting me. They dropped game four. Correct.
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Host
Game three.
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Sam Amick
Game three. Thank you. Where I made the mistake of equating muted and calm and even light in their reaction to not serious enough. And then in Game four, they took care of business. So I don't know that I make anything of their reaction. But the thing. If I was the Thunder, that would make me feel better is that a. Like you said, the history of. In these playoffs, they haven't lost two games in a row. They always respond. On top of that, Rick Carlisle and all the Pacers people, Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam, I think they all mentioned at length the crowd in Indy. And that's not obviously very surprising, but it really struck me, like, how they talked about the crowd, like, literally as if the crowd was on the box score and, like, you know, hitting shots and. And throwing dimes because it was like, Rick, you know, Carlisle said at one point, like, that crowd, like, when they're on top of you, you know, the energy makes a difference, and it's all. It makes a lot of sense. But then, of course, you're sitting there kind of going, yeah. And that's why the Thunder are going to, you know, conceivably have a heck of an advantage in Game 7, because, you know, that part of it flips. The part that makes the game fun, though, because I've already had this debate with some other reporters is, you know, that would lead me to believe, like, all right, I wouldn't be shocked if it's a Thunder route, but the Game seven part changes everything. If they get tight, if they, you know, if they literally just kind of get spooked and realize, like, we came so close to blowing this thing. What if we blow this thing and the inner voice gets the best of you? Then who the hell knows? So it'll be fun to see what happens.
- [10:33]
Host
What's your view on Halliburton's status moving forward and. And, like, how they felt about how he. How he, you know, performed and how he felt, you know, going into Game six?
- [10:47]
Sam Amick
Pretty good. I mean, it seemed like you move well. There's even some, you know, there's messaging where it's like, you know, mild. I don't know, people, Thunder fans might not believe them, but a mild annoyance that, that the media framed it the way that, you know, I don't necessarily think we did, but some outlets did. As far as, like, you know, that this is, this is a Willis Reed moment, you know what I mean, type thing. It's. I don't think the Pacers ever really, truly doubted that he was going to play. He looked good to me. He moved well, obviously made a big impact. And, you know, I don't know how serious the castran was. The other comparison somebody made that they kind of. The reason they brought this up was like that it's sacrilege to put it on this level is like, this is not Kevin Durant in 2019 coming back from the calf, you know, but it's also not nothing. And so, you know, I watched him walk out of the building after game five and definitely thought to myself, like, man, like, he's, you know, not looking good. So I would. I feel like he's certainly going to be good for game seven. I'm sure, you know, two more days of treatment is going to help him because he described after game six, just a lot of time in the, in the cryo chamber and, and getting a ton of treatment that. That is now going to help even more. So, you know, I don't know if he's 100%, but. But he'll be out there.
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Alex Spears
So. The other big news this week outside of the Finals was the sale of the Los Angeles Lakers, who sold for $10 billion to Mark Walter, who also owns the Los Angeles Dodgers. What has been the reaction to this sale around the league?
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Sam Amick
Pretty positive. And it's not, you know, it's not. Well, I mean, first of all, the number itself is the type of thing that, that should make every NBA owner do backflips because in terms of setting the market, it's just a remarkable figure. So that's my first thought. My second thought is that the Lakers, you know, had they win the championship in 2020, they get to the west finals a couple of years ago, they were still, you know, at times an elite team, despite the fact that as much history and experience as Genie Buss has running that squad, they were always accused of, you know, I mean, and they hate the terminology, but running it much more like a mom and pop shop than most NBA teams. They don't have as deep of a staff. Their front office is not loaded like a lot of teams when it comes to the analytics department. Scouting. And I say all of that to say that it's now, for Lakers fans, it's the best of both worlds where, you know, Jeannie is going to be still being the governor and, and having that experience, but the checkbook just. Just, you know, or the bank account just got a whole lot bigger when it comes to the way they're going to operate, you know, and this is not my expertise at all, but I know enough about the Dodgers and the way they function that, you know, it does seem pretty fair to just say, like, go look at how the Dodgers have functioned somewhat similar to the Clippers and Steve Ballmer, where he just, you know, he just. There's. There's no. Like, if he finds a. They just added Monty McNair to their front office. You know what I mean? Like, as an advisor, he's a former gm. They have multiple guys in their front office that are GM caliber. And the idea is just that you're trying to win around the margins, but that comes at a cost. Now I think the Lakers are going to do more of that. So, again, for Laker fans, it's pretty great.
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Alex Spears
How do people anticipate this sale possibly influencing expansion? Has the price for a new team gone up with this? That was the talk after the Celtics sold for 6 million. Like, oh, now it's 6 billion. Now it's going to be 4 billion for these new teams. Has this changed any of that?
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Sam Amick
You know, I would imagine so. I mean, again, it's set in the market, generally speaking. You know, I'm just curious to see six months from now, a year from now, where the expansion discussion is. Because, you know, we've asked Adam Silver about it multiple times recently, and everybody seems to kind of not be high, myself included, not really highlighting the fact that, that, you know, there was a time not that long ago where, where the tone of the league's expansion discussion was that it's all systems go. Well, it's a matter of when, not if. And, you know, we'll let you know what the next step is and then call it dragging their feet or changing their focus. You know, Europe has suddenly become seemingly a bigger priority with some of the, you know, the creative ideas that they're pursuing overseas. And the expansion seems to be a little bit on hold. So I'm curious to see where it goes. But in terms of the price. Yeah, no question. I mean, Portland's up for sale. You know, that's the next one that is going to tell us something about what the price of doing business is. And then we'll see expansion wise, what happens.
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Host
Yeah, it's funny because the talk is always like, well, now that this team has sold, we're definitely going to expand and like, it feels like there's been like four or five teams that have been sold since people have started saying that. Obviously the other massive story is that everyone's waiting on a Kevin Durant trade. The reporting this week suggests that Phoenix isn't thrilled with the offers that they're getting out of three teams. We've heard Kevin Durant would actually go to Spurs, Heat and Rockets. Do you think any of these teams are more motivated than others to get a deal done?
- [16:39]
Sam Amick
I honestly, I don't have a great beat on Miami, but I do, like you said, I know that the Suns have been underwhelmed. You know, I feel confident saying that San Antonio and Houston have similar levels of interest, meaning they would love to have kd, but it's on their price and it's, you know, I mean, I was told yesterday that Houston hadn't talked to Phoenix since last week and, and that that call didn't go particularly well. That could have changed by now. That's, again, that's, as of yesterday, but that San Antonio is not going to go all in to get them. I think you can learn a little bit about how they're moving from the de' Aaron Fox trade where they really surprised a lot of people because, you know, the fact that none of their young players wound up in Sacramento and they didn't, you know, so they wanted Fox, but they wanted Fox the way that, that they wanted to get him, which was with the third team and, and somehow holding on to the guys that, that they're trying to grow within their program. The, the thing right now is it's a little bit of a cat and mouse game, I think, with Kevin and the Sons, where they are working together and hopefully that noise isn't too bad. Guys, we had a vacuum in the hallway.
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Host
I think you're good.
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Sam Amick
It's, it's the Sons and Kevin and his agent Rich Kleiman are coordinating together. But it feels like it's this breaking point where, you know, I don't know why this example just popped in my head. And Andrew, you and I talk about family all the time. If you're driving down the road and, and you're trying to, to, you know, get everybody in the car to agree with the kids and the wife, like where you're going to grab dinner and, and you're, you're, you're trying to let Everybody have a voice, but at a certain point, you just kind of go, all right, just stop it. We're going here, you know?
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Host
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [18:32]
Sam Amick
So, like, we wrote the other day that, you know, it's. It's really clear that Phoenix likes what Minnesota could potentially offer, but the Timberwolves have made it clear that they're not in this Kevin Durant game unless they're confident that he wants to be there. So you can sense the Suns trying to convince Kevin to add Minnesota to his list, and it's just a question of what if he doesn't, you know, what might they have on the table for, you know, deals that they won't involve extensions, you know, where you're just going to ship them off for a rental, which, you know, is not going to net you much in return. How stubborn is Matt Espia going to be here to get the kind of haul that. That makes him feel better about the original trade, but, you know, I just don't see that coming around the pike. So it's a. It's. It's all coming to a head because we did think this was going to happen before the draft, and right now there's no movement.
- [19:30]
Host
Is there a chance that he just stays in Phoenix? Like, they just can't get anything done.
- [19:34]
Sam Amick
I mean, there's always that chance. I mean, I. You know, this is just my own speculation. When you hire a new GM and Brian Gregory and. And, you know, and. And, like, you're trying to set the course going forward, like, of course you should. I mean, especially with Ishpia having seen that, like, the rash moves in his first couple years as an owner have not panned out. Yes, you should be increasingly willing to. To do the uncomfortable thing. Weird cop, but it's almost like Giannis in Milwaukee. Like, he knows it's an imperfect situation, but he's smart enough and wise enough to know that the landscape right now is not great for me to ask for a trade. And so I'm not even sure I want to, but, you know, so you will just kind of deal in Milwaukee for at least one more year, and I could see the Suns. I mean, if I was part of their group, I would.
- [20:27]
Alex Spears
You.
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Sam Amick
You've got to have that on the table. If you don't have that on the table, then, you know, that's just more leverage you're losing in these talks. I mean, I don't think that'll happen, but. But it should be, you know, one of the options they're considering.
- [20:40]
Alex Spears
So we also had our first big Trade of the offseason this week with Memphis sending Desmond Bain to Orlando for a bunch of picks. So the expectation seems to be that Memphis is not tearing things down. They're looking to build around JA and Triple J going forward. Are there any indications about what type of player or level of star Memphis is targeting in the near future? Like, are they going big fish hunting with all of these assets?
- [21:03]
Sam Amick
They don't appear to be going after kd. And, you know, he's a big fish, but he's become, he's. He's kind of, you know, filling his own lane at this point just because he's 37. The age has got to be mentioned. You know, a group like that, you're going to be trying to go young, big game hunting, if that makes sense. I don't have a list in terms of what they're looking at, you know, and I understand that that trade. While, yes, I'm sure they were trying to figure out how to augment things around Jaw and Triple J, I also think in today's second apron NBA world, that there is a little bit of a Minnesota Karl Anthony Towns trade reality where the economics were just coming up on them really quickly. And that's a consideration that, that just puts them, you know, in a, in a place where they went backwards. There's no other way around it. Desmond's a fantastic player. I think he's gonna really fit in well in Orlando. And, and, and so it's a, it's a small pivot. So the question now is like, can they get somebody. They're not as close as they used to be. So this is not a go grab Draymond Green from the warriors type of setup. You know what I mean? Like, they need to try to create a longer Runway and grow, but I don't know if they're going to be able to, and if they're not, then, you know, I, I do think. I'm not entirely convinced yet that. And it could be a year from now, but that they, they look at this whole thing and say, you know, we're going to have to hit the escape button on, on these core guys and tear it down a little bit.
- [22:42]
Host
Sam, thank you so much for answering our questions. Be sure to go read Sam at the Athletic. He wrote about Pascal Siakam, who. This will be music just to, to Dave DeFore's ears, that he's the, the true MVP of this Pacers Finals run. Go check that. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card today and start earning up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases. And that daily cash can even grow automatically when you open open a high yield savings account through Apple Card. What are you waiting for? Visit Apple Co Card Calculator today to see how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA member FDIC terms and more@applecard.com at my house I've got three growing boys. I've got a teenager, a preteen six year old that all just need good food. They need good high quality, the best food to just fuel your body because they literally never stop. They never stop moving. And so I need high quality protein without all that junk. And I found this with Butcherbox. Butcherbox delivers better meat and seafood straight to your door including 100 100% grass fed beef, free range organic chicken, pork raised, crate free and wild caught seafood. All Butcherbox proteins are sourced from partners who meet strict animal welfare and sustainability standards. That means no antibiotics or added hormones ever. Whether you're feeding a growing family like me or trying to eat clean without the stress, Butcherbox offers curated or or fully customizable plans that fit your schedule and your preferences. Here in my house we're eating a lot of chicken and a lot of times the chicken that we will get at like the supermarket is just not very good. There's not a lot of flavor to it. But with Butcher Box it is really hit the spot every single time. It's something that I know that all of my kids will eat and I know that I'm putting good food in their bodies which is really really important to me. And as a certified B Corp. Butcherbox is committed to high standards from how the animals are raised to how their team supports workers and reduces environmental impact. Plus, every box ships free always and includes member only perks like recipe inspirations, tips and exclusive deals to help you make the most of every meal. Right now Butcherbox is offering listeners $20 off their first box of protein for a year. Go to butcherbox.com/athletic NBA to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com athletic NBA don't forget to use our link so they know that we sent you.
- [25:36]
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- [26:10]
Host
Sam, thanks so much.
- [26:12]
Sam Amick
Thanks guys. Appreciate it.
- [26:16]
Host
With us now, the only person I want to talk Pacers with, Caitlin Cooper, who writes the Basketball She Wrote blog. It's very good. If you want to learn just about basketball, it's a great blog. If you love the Pacers, it's even better. Caitlin, thank you so much for coming on.
- [26:32]
Caitlin Cooper
Thanks for inviting me. I can tell. I can sense the enthusiasm to talk about the Indiana Facers today.
- [26:37]
Host
Listen, this, it's, it's a, it's a weird position for us to be in for Alex and I, because we, we follow and, and you know, we're both from Oklahoma City. We both would prefer the Thunder to win. Listen, I know we're supposed to be unbiased, but that's just, that's just, that's just me. That's just real. Okay. I just got back from Indiana and it was. They just got bludgeoned. But let's talk about game seven. We're going to preview game seven. I just want to. I would love to. Just, just going to pick your brain for half an hour and try to figure out what is going on in the series. So Sunday night will be the first Game 7 in the NBA Finals since 2016. You've been breaking down every game of the series, analyzing the adjustments from both teams. As you look back over the first six games, what have been the biggest tactical decisions that have impacted the way the series has played out?
- [27:31]
Caitlin Cooper
I think the biggest difference for the Pacers, especially by comparison to last year and over the course of these seven, is just how many different defensive tweaks they've made. I think normally you probably think of Rick Carlisle as a offensive X's and O's tactician, and that's certainly been the case as well. But watching how they're guarding Shea from the first game until what they did last night was like two polar opposite schemes. Almost the amount that they dialed back the pressure in game six. I mean, I posted a stat this morning that it was their lowest average pickup point of the postseason. And of this series against Shea, they were more so having Andrew drop back and wait for him at half court or around the three point line, which I think was probably motivated by a few things likely Tyrese Halliburton's injury and also how Andrew played in the fourth quarter of Game 5 in Oklahoma. He looked completely gassed when he and Tyrese combined for those five turnovers in the fourth, especially some of the ones that he was making, where it's like, this is a simple pitch back to Pascal, and I'm just getting off the ball as quickly as I can. So I'm guessing the Pacers thought process there was twofold and that if they thought Tyrese was going to be limited at all, that Andrew was going to have to run more pick and roll, which he did. Tyrese only ran nine picks in this entire game last night.
- [28:49]
Host
Wow.
- [28:49]
Caitlin Cooper
So if Andrew's having to be primary point along with TJ McConnell and be defending the league MVP, you have to find rest somewhere there. So by dialing back the full court pressure, they also dialed up the half court pressure, and we're showing Shai a lot more traps. So in addition to it being their lowest average pickup point, it was also the highest rate of double teams that Shea seen on his touches in the entirety of the playoffs. So that was kind of the biggest tactical thing because that's very different than what they were doing at the beginning of the series, and especially in Game five, where they were creating really long runways for Shai and Jalen Williams to be getting to the rim with how high they were picking him up, and the fact that they go over on.
- [29:30]
Alex Spears
Like, every screen, and it sounded like in the post game, Shay. I mean, Shay brought that up and he kind of said it was un. Unexpected. So it seemed like they were not ready for that in any way. I don't. I don't know how. How do you think they could adjust to that? Because it's not like they've played a ton of teams that have thrown a lot of doubles at him over the course of the regular season. But it was a stark difference from how the Pacers have been guarding this series. Like, is there anything you expect OKC to do in Game seven to counteract that?
- [30:01]
Caitlin Cooper
I would expect that Shay is going to be more prepared for where they were helping from because the Pacers have toyed around with that a little bit. I think they were trying to. It's almost like taking a page from the Thunder, right? The Thunder play one of the most unpredictable defenses that I've ever watched, and that they don't just pack the paint. They help from very unconventional places, but they trust and the fact that their defense can be on a string, that they can pull it off. And that's kind of what the Pacers were doing last night. Like, they were just swarming him at Times toying with. Are we doubling from the top? Are we doubling from the weak side elbow? My guess is Shay's going to watch that back and notice what spots and where they were doubling him from. So he's not racking up quite as many turnovers as what he did there. He's going to be more prepared for where the double teams will come. And so that would be point number one. And then also, like, I'm guessing that it was a little bit different for him too, and that the Pacers were switching on a lot more of the guard to guard screens because they did that two games ago because they wanted to get Aaron Neesmith onto Shay the Thunder, because Aaron can be a foul machine for lack of better terms. And last night with TJ and Nemhard, they were willingly switching TJ on to Shea, which at first I was like, well, that's kind of curious. That's a mismatch. But as soon as, as Nemhard switched off, they were putting Nemhard in the paint, basically acting like a goalie. So I would suspect that Shay's also going to be more prepared and knowing, like, hey, they're not staying home on our shooters like what they did in games one and two when they make the switch. I should be expecting to see an extra body and I should know that, like, hey, somebody's probably open behind that corner pin and screen over there. Like, I'm just guessing that when he watches the film back, similar to Mark, I mean, I know Mark made a comment which I think was just spooky spot on, about both teams, where he was like, somebody asked him like, do you ever run out of adjustments? And he's like, no, it doesn't feel like either one of these two teams is going to run out of adjustments anytime soon because they have so much flexibility between the two of them.
- [31:58]
Alex Spears
So going into game six, a lot of the focus was on Halliburton, how he's going to play with this injured calf despite the injury, still very effective. Team high plus 25 in his 23 minutes. You kind of mentioned this in your answer to our first question, but how did he. And the Pacers adjusted his approach offensively and defensively so that he could still be so effective despite this injury.
- [32:20]
Caitlin Cooper
Yeah, I know that that was, like, somewhat controversial, but, like, I thought he was very clearly limited in game five, and I thought he was still clearly limited in game six. The difference being is that the Pacers had two days off to prepare for how they wanted to scheme around those limitations. So, like I said Nemhard and TJ ran way more pick and roll than Tyrese. Tyrese running nine picks for a game. Even when considering that the fourth, fourth quarter was entirely garbage time, it's still a very low total for him in a game. So that's number one. Just tilting more of the offense into the hands of other guys. So as much explosivity isn't required of him as what would be required of him in normal games. And he was advancing the ball very quickly, too. Like you would have seen. There were some spots early in the game where he could have pushed it himself and, like, he's a hit ahead guy, but he was definitely like, I'm going to let Pascal being the bring up ball handler, I'm going to let Andrew Bradley bring up ball handler. And then just little quirks about his game actually worked in his favor. Like, I refer to him as a counterculture a lot, but, like, he's a guy who, despite being right handed, likes to step back to his right. So like last night, when he's on the left side of the court and he makes that step back three to the right, he's not having to power off his injured right calf. He already wants to do that anyway, so he's not having to power off that calf muscle to get to the shot that he wants to get to. So that's helpful. And then also, like, two years ago when he first got traded to the Pacers, he was not a guy. And he still isn't by comparison to a lot of, like, you know, what we would see from Shea isn't somebody who's going to drive switches head on. So when Chet was switching out to him last night, he went to a move that he used a lot two years ago, where it's like, I'm going to fake the righty side. Step three, I'm going to draw Chet to my body. I'm going to get off the ball and I'm going to, you know, give and go and I'll get it back at the rim and then I can score there. So I'm not relying on my burst. I don't have to burst past Chet. I don't have to create an advantage. I'm going to draw him here and use the motion to beat the switch rather than my handle to beat the switch. And then also, like, one of my favorite quirks of his is when he'll pull out the lefty floater. So last night, when they were trying to force him in that opposite direction, he can just, on a Whim be like, well, I can make a floater with my offhand. So, like, it was him doing things that are counter, but they're already counter to him. It was just helpful with what injury he had. Like, I still think he looked limited in that game, and I still suspect he will likely be limited in game seven. But. And to be fair, the Thunder helped the Pacers out by how many threes they missed in that basketball game as well.
- [34:41]
Host
So, yeah, T.J. mcConnell, he took more shots than he's taken in the playoffs in games five and six in this series. I think OKC fans keep waiting for this elite defensive team to figure out this like short mid range maestro. Like, how is he doing this to the Thunder? His powers just continue to grow as the series goes on. Is he. He's just haunting Thunder fans, I think, at this point. But why is he having so much success against the Thunder defense, in your opinion?
- [35:16]
Caitlin Cooper
What's interesting is he really didn't in game one, I actually referred to it as like the excesses of TJ Ball because it was a little bit frustrating because there was times where like Aaron was being guarded by Hartenstein and Pascal was being guarded by Shea or, or Isaiah Joe, like deliberately by the Thunder. And it was so much like TJ Thomas, Bryant, pick and roll. It's like maybe a little bit less of that now. It's like there probably can't be enough of TJ McConnell pick and roll. Like, they've shifted him down and running a lot of like, snug pick and rolls where you're running them very close to the basket at the block. So it's not affecting him as much if you duck under from that location. And then also, like, the Thunder defense is built around creating deflections, forcing turnovers, packing into lanes. TJ Wants to hold onto the ball as long as humanly possible. Like, they're like genuinely like in terms of time of possession and how long he stays on the ball with his dribble. That's. That's a decent way to counter it. And it's very counter to the way that Tyrese plays, where Tyrese gets off the ball very quickly. Andrew Nemhardt's somewhere in between the two. So that. That's definitely benefited TJ in terms of the way that the Thunder already scheme their defense for sure.
- [36:25]
Alex Spears
It's funny that you bring that up because I was trying to come with trivia questions today, and I was looking at average dribble per touch and TJ McConnell is like so high compared to anyone else. On the Pacers, and it's interesting that that could be used as like a strength against this Thunder defense. Okay, so at the beginning of the third quarter, Mark Dagno opted to start Caruso instead of Hartenstein. It obviously didn't spark a comeback or anything, but if you were OKC, would you consider a starting lineup change in Game 7? Like, as a, as a Pacer fan, are you more scared of the Caruso lineup versus the double big lineup?
- [37:02]
Caitlin Cooper
Yes. And especially like, if I'm the Thunder and I'm watching back what just happened in Game 6, there's. Yet there's less utility for Hartenstein in my opinion, because part of the reason why, I think, if I had to guess, because I don't know that they started starting him was because the Pacers were picking Shea and Jalen Williams up so high that his screening was really valuable to them to set three quarter court screens and make sure that nem hard was getting off so that they could get an odd man advantage with a head of steam. And if they're not going to be picking up that high and they're going to be waiting for Shea at three quarter court, it's not as valuable to them to have both bigs on the floor. And then also, I thought the patients were a lot better in game six by comparison to game five at. At overplaying the handoffs for Hartenstein and then also taking away like the late pass counters. Like, there was a time where you could see Tyrese get a deflection out of that. Ben Shepard took it away from Jalen Williams. Like, I think Williams had like, what, seven or eight points off of cuts, like in passes from Hartenstein in game five. They took that away better in game six. So like, if I was watching that, and to be honest, like, I don't, you guys are going to have a lot better opinion on this than me. But like, I think Caruso's probably been their third best player in the series. So, like, if it's, if it's a winner, go home game seven. Like, I probably want my very best players in there as much as possible. So I would, I would probably be starting Caruso just like what they did in the second half last night, despite the fact that the Pacers build up the lead.
- [38:22]
Host
Yeah, because I mean, they've opted for Case and instead of Caruso. But I mean, it's the. You're not saving anybody's minutes for Anything in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Like, I think that you just have to put it everything out there.
- [38:35]
Caitlin Cooper
I Think one, like, side note of that is if Tyrese is feeling or does look better than what he looked in these two games and the Pacers want to do more stuff between Tyrese and Siakam, then they can switch that between Dort and Caruso a lot easier than what they're able to do with the lineup that they have been playing.
- [38:53]
Host
Yeah, 100%.
- [38:55]
Alex Spears
What have you been seeing from the Thunder defensively in terms of how they guard the corner three? Because I know, like, in game one, I think the Pacers shot, like, 16 corner threes. They were 10 to 16. They shot a ton. Game two, I think in game five, they only took five. This is cleaning the glass, so there might be some that were removed for garbage time. I know that's the case in game six, I think they took, like, eight. While it was a competitive game, have you noticed anything different about how they're guarding those corner threes?
- [39:24]
Caitlin Cooper
Not specifically. Like, I think some of that probably just goes back to, you know, Tyrese and the paint touches. Like, when you're looking at game five and he was effectively just operating as a decoy, for lack of better words. Like, it was almost like he was just playing. Like, I remember this vividly that two years ago, when the Pacers beat the Bucks, Damian Lillard was like, I just kept playing because I knew if I was out there that I was going to draw attention from Chris Middleton. Like, I knew I wasn't going to have that much effect. That's kind of what Tyrese looked like the entire second half. And there were times where he really did space the floor. Like, if Lou Dort's going to push him clear out to the logo at half court, that's creating a lot of room for Siakam 4 on 4, where there's still a benefit to him playing, even if he's not at 100%. But, like, I think that's probably what's tying it in to a degree. Like, Tyrese already wasn't getting a lot of paint touches against this defense in general, but, like, for a team that so much preaches paint to great, it becomes a lot more difficult when Tyrese isn't as much the player on ball who's really great at making those skip pass reads. Like, you know, the jump pass that he made. And game three, at the end of the game where I. I was sitting in the stands and I genuinely thought that ball was going to Miles Turner and it went to Aaron Neesmith, and Aaron Neesmith made that corner three, and that shifted the game. Yeah, he just hasn't been doing as much of that because he's not been the person on ball as much.
- [40:39]
Alex Spears
If you were okC, you know, talking about how much more limited Halliburton is compared to earlier in the series, do you still think putting Dort on him is the best use of Dort's defensive talents? Like, could they use him somewhere else if Halliburton is going to be more limited, or would you still just stick with that matchup?
- [40:57]
Caitlin Cooper
I was surprised at the end of Game 5 that he continued to provide as much exaggerated face guarding as he was. Given what Tyrese looked like. Like, you could probably dial that back just because the Pacers are a team that's very comfortable playing four on four. I mean, they did that throughout most of the Cav series when the Cavs were face guarding him with a Coro. They were very comfortable running pick and roll with Nem hard and they're very comfortable. Like Siakam is really the guy who headed into this series. I expected Siakam to have more inherent advantages in this series than I did for Tyrese. Like, I knew going in this was going to be a tough series for Tyrese. So, like, two things. The things that the Thunder could consider if they. If, you know, if they start Caruso, they could put Caruso or Door on either one of the two of them. But yeah, if they're going to. If they're going to shift more of the offense to Nemhard. Like the Knicks were successful in extending that series because they put OG on Andobi onto Nemhard and told him to duck under everything while Mikel Bridges face guarded Tyrese. So there might be something there with Dort because Dort is so comfortable ducking under picks to be like, hey, let's put our strongest defender on Nem hard. He's going to be running more pick and roll. Let's bait Nem hard and see if he can make the pull up threes against us. Let's try to take some of the flow out of their offense by ducking under it. And it's not like the Thunder have a lot of weak links. Like, somebody else can probably face guard Tyrese if he's somewhat limited. Like, that's something that I would really toss around because I've seen it work against the Pacers in the playoffs to this point.
- [42:26]
Host
Yeah, that's game. Game one ptsd. I think. I think people are just like, you just cannot let this guy, let this guy loose at all. So heading into this winner take all game seven. Are there any specific adjustments that you're watching for four or matchups that you're focusing on? You know, early on before game seven.
- [42:47]
Caitlin Cooper
Probably two things in. One, in that Game six was the first time that the Pacers really mixed in possessions with Pascal guarding Jalen Williams. Aaron D. Smith really hasn't contained him to this point. Rick took a timeout like, three minutes into the game last night. And out of that timeout, I was like, yep, here we go. Like, Siakam was directly on Jalen Williams. He had more possessions against Jalen last night than through the first five games of the series. I thought Siakam had some success there. They're not going to be able to do that for an entire basketball game, and I wouldn't expect them to because that's just asking way too much of Siakam to be doing that. Plus, they value him as a help defender a lot. So if that continues and if the Thunder were to play big, Neesmith was on Chet Holmgren. So, like, that's something that they might be a little bit more prepared to exploit into a Game seven now that they've seen it, because that wasn't something that the Pacers had tried up until that point. So that. And then, like, this is very basic. There's not a lot of thought going in here, but I'm really interested to see which of the bigs between Chet Holmgren and Miles Turner are going to have, like, a breakout game. Like, which. Because, like, to this point, they're just, like, kind of exchanging who can miss more shots? Like, that's just kind of what it is. So, like, it kind of feels like the series is going to tilt on which one of them, like, figures it out.
- [44:00]
Alex Spears
That's terrifying.
- [44:02]
Host
Check. Got creative, too. Missing. Missing that lob slam the other day. That was really something.
- [44:06]
Alex Spears
Yeah, that was cool.
- [44:09]
Host
Let's make picks. We gotta. We gotta make picks, Al. Yes, we do. We gotta make picks. Okay. There's all these stats that just, like, favor OKC in so many ways. Even just like, the game seven history. Like, 74% of teams playing in Game Sevens when there's been. This will be the 20th game seven in finals history. You know, 15 of those teams have been the home team. The Thunder are a plus 20 net rating. When they're at home, they're a minus 6 net rating. We're in there on the road. Like, there's just all these things that kind of point to the Thunder. And yet when you think the Pacers are dead, they're not. And so It's a. It's a terrifying proposition. Caitlin, what is your. What's your feeling on this on game 7?
- [45:02]
Caitlin Cooper
My feel on the pulse of it is that the Thunder are going to be more prepared for some of the things that the Pacers just did, and I would like to think that they're not going to shoot the three as poorly as they just did. Although I think some of that was impacted by the Pacers altering the rhythm of the game. But. And this is just going off of feel, which is not something that I normally do ever. But, like, I. This series isn't going to be over until it's over, and I just. I can't. I have a really hard time counting out this Pacer team in a Game seven, even if it is on the road. So I feel like I'm going to err on the side of optimism, and I'm going to pick the Pacers in seven.
- [45:40]
Host
Okay.
- [45:41]
Alex Spears
Can I. Can I ask you what your watching situation is like for a Game seven? Like, are you well adjusted and you can watch this with other people, or are you like me and you're going to be, like, in a dark room with the tv, like, on mute?
- [45:53]
Caitlin Cooper
I ran into some fans in Indy when I was there who told me that they cannot watch the game live, that if the Pacers win, they'll immediately go watch it, but if they lose, they have to wait. Or they just can't watch it at all because, like, they're living every moment of it to that extent. But, like, I. I'll be fine. I'll be able to watch it live because in part, like, it will be heartbreaking if the Pacers don't win this in a Game seven. But, like, this season is already a complete and total win for them. Like, this is the furthest they've ever been.
- [46:22]
Host
Like, kidding.
- [46:23]
Caitlin Cooper
They're playing stellar basketball. So sad. But it would still be their best finish ever. So.
- [46:32]
Alex Spears
Yeah, the thing that terrifies me is, like, looking back at past game sevens, like, they're all close. They're all disgusting games. They're going to be all disgusting within, like, five points or something. I mean, I remember that 2016 game so fondly, and that was such a, like, bad basketball game. I remember how many missed shots there were down the stretch in that fourth quarter because sometimes I'll go back on YouTube and watch just the fourth quarter and it's so bad. Like, everyone is missing a shot until Kyrie hits that three. So that's the kind of game I'm anticipating. I don't think either team's going to get off easy with like a blowout where they feel comfortable at any point in the game. And the thing I'm, I am most interested in is how OKC starts because I got to go to game five and that crowd was crazy at the beginning of the game and it did feel like you were, you were part of the, like the fuel for that start in terms of creating turnovers. Like the place was just going crazy. And I. So I'm really interested to see how the game starts because I know the crowd's going to be crazy and if OKC can get off to a similar start, I'm going to feel good. But if there's like any, if it's like close in the first quarter, I just know that the crowd is going to tighten up as that game goes on and you're going to start feeling that pressure, which I will be feeling. I'm actually going to go to my mother in law and father in law's house because they're out of town so that I can just sit in a room by myself and watch this game because I don't think I can handle it any other way. But yeah, I'm really fascinated to see how that game starts.
- [48:06]
Host
So what's your pick? Is that you're just avoiding making a pick? What's the deal?
- [48:10]
Alex Spears
I'll take OKC by five and I'll be dead by two minutes left in the fourth.
- [48:15]
Host
Okay. Yeah, yeah. I predicted something similar last night. My own death and a Thunder win.
- [48:23]
Alex Spears
Yes.
- [48:24]
Host
I think this is where this is.
- [48:26]
Alex Spears
Hey, that's a trade off. That's a trade off.
- [48:28]
Host
Listen, just pull my dead body out of the Paycom center as a Thunder win the game.
- [48:34]
Caitlin Cooper
Sure, you won't see the parade, but the Thunder will have won.
- [48:38]
Host
That's right. But just put, just like Weekend at Bernie style, put my body on a float. All right.
- [48:44]
Alex Spears
I'll push you in a wagon. Okay, do that for you.
- [48:47]
Host
All right.
- [48:47]
Alex Spears
Thank you. Okay. Caitlyn, thank you for answering all those questions. Now we get to Forget about Game 7 for a few minutes and play some trivia because it's time for Andrew versus the beat. Now you played this very recently so you know how to play. And this week all these questions are about what OKC and Indiana did in the playoffs. So these are all the intertwinedness of these two teams in the playoffs. So eight questions. If you get it right, you'll get at least two points. If you get it wrong and you'll have a chance to Steal for one. We'll go back and forth. So, Caitlin, what number between 1 and 8 would you like to start with?
- [49:26]
Caitlin Cooper
I'll go with number two.
- [49:28]
Alex Spears
Question number two. When this player has been on the court for the Pacers in the playoffs, the percentage of their plays that come in Transition increases by 3.7%, which is in the 92nd percentile. Who is that player?
- [49:45]
Caitlin Cooper
Wow, that could go a lot of ways. It feels like the gut inclination there would be Tyrese just because he's the engine of everything. But Siakam has been so good at running out that it leads me to think there. And it also leads me to think that, like what happened last night when Aaron got loose for a few, that it could be Aaron. I have not looked at this, but. Well, and it could be Obi Toppin, too. I mean, there's so many answers with how fast the Pacers play. So now I'm gonna go with Obi Toppin.
- [50:15]
Alex Spears
That is incorrect. Andrew, you have a chance to steal.
- [50:22]
Host
I'll say Neesmith.
- [50:25]
Alex Spears
Also incorrect. Caitlin, it was your second answer.
- [50:30]
Caitlin Cooper
Once. I. I shouldn't have let Obi creep into my mind. I was gonna go with Pascal, but then I was like.
- [50:37]
Alex Spears
All right, Andrew, I'll go. One question number one. Looking at the totals for the five major counting stats in the playoffs. So points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. SGA has the most points of anyone. Halburn has the most assists. Caruso has the most steals. Miles Turner has the most blocks of any one in the playoffs. The person who has the most rebounds in the 2025 playoffs is not on the Thunder or the Pacers. Who is it?
- [51:05]
Host
Wow. I think this is Kat.
- [51:11]
Alex Spears
Andrew. That is correct. It's Carl Anthony Towns. Congratulations. Okay, Caitlin, board is yours.
- [51:19]
Caitlin Cooper
Stew, number seven.
- [51:21]
Alex Spears
Question number seven. Which players have run the most miles for the Pacers and Thunder in the NBA Finals, respectively? So you get one point per correct answer. So one player for each team. Who has run the most miles in the NBA Finals. And it's over 16 miles each.
- [51:43]
Host
Wow.
- [51:47]
Caitlin Cooper
We're talking offense or defense or both?
- [51:50]
Alex Spears
Both.
- [51:52]
Caitlin Cooper
So it's got to be somebody that's played the most minutes. Part of me thinks that this could easily be nem hard because he's picking up so much, but he's not moving as much in the half court as perhaps Tyrese is or Siakam, I guess. On the offensive side, I'm going to be super lame and I'm going to pick Siakam. And on or on the Indiana side, I'm going to pick Siakam. And on the offensive side, arming for the Oklahoma City side. Let's see. I'm going to just go with Jalen Williams. I don't have a good feel for this.
- [52:37]
Alex Spears
That is incorrect. Andrew, you have a chance to steal. I'm not going to tell you if either of Caitlin's answers were correct. Miles, Run.
- [52:48]
Host
I am going to guess a combination that we have seen, like mirroring each other almost with Shay and Nemhard.
- [52:59]
Alex Spears
Andrew, that is correct. Yes, correct.
- [53:03]
Caitlin Cooper
My gut inclinations are right, and then I talk myself out of them. I started thinking about Jalen being a cutter, and I was like, well, that probably involves a lot more movement.
- [53:14]
Alex Spears
All right, Andrew, board is yours. Ignore that. You have four points. You actually have three points.
- [53:18]
Host
Okay, don't ghost point. Stop feeling good. Number three.
- [53:25]
Alex Spears
Question number three. When this player has been on the court for the third Thunder in the playoffs, the percentage of opponent plays that come in Transition decreases by 2.4%, which is in the 85th percentile. Who is that player?
- [53:42]
Host
Oh, boy.
- [53:45]
Alex Spears
So transition opportunities for the opponent.
- [53:48]
Host
The Pacers opponent drops. Okay. Transition opportunities. Okay, I will. Is it ac.
- [54:02]
Alex Spears
No, it's not.
- [54:03]
Host
Okay.
- [54:04]
Alex Spears
Caitlyn, you have a chance to steal.
- [54:06]
Caitlin Cooper
I'm gonna go with the work.
- [54:10]
Alex Spears
Also incorrect. It is none other than sga, which kind of makes sense because it's like their offense is the best when he's.
- [54:17]
Caitlin Cooper
On the court making more shots.
- [54:20]
Host
Yeah, making shots. Yeah.
- [54:21]
Alex Spears
Although this probably hasn't been updated since last game when he had eight turnovers. So it could be someone.
- [54:27]
Host
Yeah, that tomorrow. I was going to say, after yesterday, he. He was the first person that I dismissed.
- [54:36]
Alex Spears
Okay. Caitlin, board is yours.
- [54:39]
Caitlin Cooper
Number five.
- [54:41]
Alex Spears
Question number five. Now, you may feel like these have already been hard. I'm just letting you know this is the question that I think is the hardest. Okay. There are five NBA players who have played in a playoff game for both the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers during their career. Now, the obvious names. Paul George, Damona Sabonis, and Victor Oladipo. Can you name either of the other two players?
- [55:12]
Sam Amick
Oh, my.
- [55:15]
Alex Spears
And you just have to name one of them.
- [55:22]
Caitlin Cooper
Trying to think about, like, the Kevin Durant, Russell James Harden teams, and if there's a role player that would have transferred over.
- [55:30]
Host
Right. There's one, but I don't think the Pacers were in the playoffs with this particular guy. At least I don't know if they were.
- [55:45]
Caitlin Cooper
I. I genuinely. I genuinely can't come up with a person that I. That I can't even think of somebody that played for both teams other than the people that were traded that we just mentioned.
- [55:54]
Host
Right.
- [55:54]
Alex Spears
Yeah. It's kind of hard. There's only a couple. I think it was like eight players total because I'm not counting Seattle. Obviously, there are. There are more things with Seattle. Andrew, do you have any guesses?
- [56:10]
Host
I think Doug McDermott.
- [56:13]
Alex Spears
That is correct.
- [56:15]
Caitlin Cooper
I did not remember that he played for the Thunder.
- [56:18]
Host
It was very like. Yeah, just he got traded there at the deadline and then was traded in the summertime.
- [56:24]
Caitlin Cooper
Yeah.
- [56:24]
Alex Spears
Yeah, it was. What was that? The other is the campaign trade.
- [56:28]
Host
Yeah. I don't. I don't think he. I don't. I mean, Jeremy Lamb was my other thought, but I don't know if he played for the Pacers in the playoffs.
- [56:37]
Alex Spears
He did not. Oh, he didn't play for. He didn't play for one of them because that was. I did think he had done it and he had.
- [56:44]
Caitlin Cooper
I was thinking he played for the Pacers in the bubble.
- [56:47]
Host
Did he?
- [56:48]
Alex Spears
Let me see. I can look it up real quick. Western Conference executive.
- [56:52]
Caitlin Cooper
That was a good poll. I forgot about Jeremy Lamb.
- [56:55]
Host
I can't stop thinking about Jeremy Lamb just because of his involvement with the Kings. And it keeps getting brought up in particular group chat that I have.
- [57:06]
Alex Spears
The other name who has played in the playoffs for both the Thunder and the Pacers. None other than Kevin Ollie. Kevin Ollie.
- [57:16]
Caitlin Cooper
I never would have come up with that.
- [57:17]
Host
I would have never gotten to Kevin Ollie. Shout out Kevin Ollie. But never. Never. I would have.
- [57:23]
Alex Spears
Yeah.
- [57:24]
Host
No, never.
- [57:25]
Alex Spears
Andrew, you have control of the board. Three questions remain. Six.
- [57:29]
Host
Four. Number four.
- [57:32]
Alex Spears
Number four. How many combined points do Usman Jang and James Johnson have in the 2025 playoffs? Now you get to choose who answers first. You can make Caitlyn answer first, and then you can go higher, lower. Or you can answer first and then k. Go higher. Lower.
- [57:50]
Host
Bind. Total points for.
- [57:51]
Alex Spears
That's right. And James Johnson.
- [57:56]
Host
Oh, that's funny, because it took a while for us to get off the bench yesterday.
- [58:01]
Alex Spears
Okay.
- [58:02]
Host
For a minute there, I turned to the. To the guy that was sitting next to me. I was like, man, whose isn't even getting in the game now? Like, what's going on here? But he eventually. Did he hit. He had a three. So at least I know that the. The total is higher than 3. Wait, is this for the. For the finals or for the playoffs?
- [58:22]
Alex Spears
The entire playoffs.
- [58:23]
Host
The entire playoffs. Okay. Yeah, I'll say 23.
- [58:31]
Alex Spears
Okay. Andrew has gone with 23. Caitlin, would you like to go higher or lower?
- [58:36]
Caitlin Cooper
I'm Taking the.
- [58:37]
Alex Spears
Under the. Under. The correct answer was 23. What?
- [58:48]
Sam Amick
Yes.
- [58:50]
Alex Spears
Andrew got it correct, which means he does get a bonus point, folks.
- [58:54]
Caitlin Cooper
Wow, that's amazing.
- [58:56]
Alex Spears
Andrew Nero says end of bench.
- [58:58]
Host
Players shout out to us. Couldn't have done it without you, man.
- [59:04]
Alex Spears
Okay, Caitlin, two questions left. Would you like six or eight betters?
- [59:08]
Caitlin Cooper
Go with eight. I mean, I'm pretty much putting up the Thunder's game six performance right now.
- [59:14]
Alex Spears
Yeah. Maybe this will make Thunder fans feel a little better. Take some of the sting off of last night. Okay. Tyrese Halliburton has totaled 197 assists in this year's playoffs. There are only three active players who have ever totaled that many assists in one playoff run. How many can you name? So you could get three points here if you named all three. So these are players who have at least matched Tyrese Halliburton, and he will likely pass all of them.
- [59:42]
Caitlin Cooper
I'm gonna go with Chris Paul as one.
- [59:45]
Alex Spears
That is incorrect.
- [59:47]
Caitlin Cooper
What?
- [59:47]
Alex Spears
Chris Paul never did it.
- [59:49]
Caitlin Cooper
Not during even the finals run.
- [59:51]
Alex Spears
Yeah, that's a good question. That does seem something he would have done. I'll look it up while Andrew's answering. Andrew, who would you like to go with for your answer?
- [59:59]
Caitlin Cooper
Holiday effect is real. If that's inaccurate, tell me.
- [60:03]
Host
Tell me the. Tell me. Tell me the question again.
- [60:08]
Alex Spears
Yeah, he had 171 in those playoffs. Oh, didn't he miss a game or something? Because he played 20 games and most guys who got to the.
- [60:18]
Caitlin Cooper
Yeah, now that's amount. I think he had 22 or 23.
- [60:23]
Alex Spears
Andrew, this is the three active players who have had at least 197 cysts in one playoff run. Braun, good guess. Yes. LeBron is correct. He's done it twice.
- [60:40]
Host
Nik Jokic.
- [60:42]
Alex Spears
That was. That was. I was gonna trick you with he. Now he had like 190. The other two names, though. 1. Any guesses? Any guesses? Any guesses?
- [60:52]
Host
Westbrook.
- [60:53]
Alex Spears
Yeah, Westbrook is one. The other one I feel like you would not get, but I would just say his name.
- [61:03]
Host
Drew Holliday.
- [61:05]
Alex Spears
Yeah, it's Drew Holliday.
- [61:06]
Host
Really?
- [61:07]
Alex Spears
Isn't that wild?
- [61:09]
Caitlin Cooper
Yeah, I wouldn't have come up with that.
- [61:10]
Alex Spears
Would have never guessed that.
- [61:12]
Host
Wow.
- [61:13]
Alex Spears
Okay, final question, and this is a fun question. Pretend for the purposes of trivia that we combine the Pacers and Thunder into one franchise. We're going to name the top 10 in combined franchise history for most points scored in the playoffs. Okay. Does that make sense?
- [61:32]
Host
Franchise history?
- [61:33]
Alex Spears
Yeah. So I ranked them by the number of career points they had. In the playoffs for either the Pacers or the Thunder. So how this works, Andrew will give me a name, and then Caitlin will give me a name. I'll go back and forth. So, Andrew, who would you like to start with?
- [61:49]
Host
Reggie Miller.
- [61:50]
Alex Spears
He's number one on the list. Caitlin.
- [61:55]
Caitlin Cooper
I'll go with Paul George.
- [61:57]
Alex Spears
Paul George. Number five on the list.
- [62:01]
Host
Andrew.
- [62:04]
Alex Spears
Russ Russell Westbrook. Number three on the list. Caitlyn.
- [62:14]
Caitlin Cooper
I feel like Jermaine O' Neal probably has to be on there.
- [62:17]
Alex Spears
Jermaine O' Neal, number 10 or nine? Number nine on the list. Andrew.
- [62:30]
Host
KD.
- [62:32]
Alex Spears
Katie is number two on the list.
- [62:36]
Host
Caitlin.
- [62:38]
Alex Spears
Y' all are halfway there. Doing great.
- [62:44]
Caitlin Cooper
Rick Smith.
- [62:46]
Alex Spears
Rick Smiths, number four on the list. So you've gotten the top five. We have six, seven, eight, and ten left. And Andrew, you're up next.
- [62:58]
Host
Sga.
- [62:59]
Alex Spears
SGA is number six on the list. Oh, could you guys get all of them? That'd be amazing.
- [63:08]
Caitlin Cooper
I feel like for longevity sake, it's possible that this is. Miles Turner's on there.
- [63:16]
Alex Spears
It is possible because he is number eight on the list, beating Jermaine o' Neal by one point. Okay, there are two names left is number seven and number ten. Can we see a clean sweep? Be very impressive.
- [63:32]
Sam Amick
Way 10.
- [63:34]
Alex Spears
Number 7. Number 10.
- [63:37]
Host
Wow. Goodness. I keep thinking this name, but I just. I just don't think it's right. And I. It scares me to say it.
- [63:54]
Alex Spears
Who is it? Give us. Give us a little hint.
- [63:56]
Host
Danny Granger.
- [63:58]
Alex Spears
No.
- [63:59]
Host
Okay. Yeah, I didn't think that was right. I don't know why he kept popping in my mind.
- [64:06]
Alex Spears
Kalen, do you have any more guesses just for fun?
- [64:08]
Caitlin Cooper
Jalen Rose.
- [64:10]
Alex Spears
Jalen Rose. He was like 11 on the list. There's actually one Pacer and one Thunder left.
- [64:16]
Host
One Pacer, one Thunder, one Pacer, one Thunder. Dilmas.
- [64:20]
Alex Spears
Nope. You keep throwing out names. Nope. Any other guesses? Yes. Serge Ibaka.
- [64:34]
Host
Dang.
- [64:34]
Alex Spears
Who's number seven and then number ten, Pacer. Longevity. Dale Davis.
- [64:41]
Host
Dale Davis.
- [64:43]
Alex Spears
Yes. So, Caitlin, you do get the point for that question. Congratulations. However, it was not enough to make up the deficit, but thank you for playing Andrew versus the Beat.
- [64:56]
Host
Oh, man.
- [64:57]
Caitlin Cooper
Hopefully the Pacers fare better in Game 7 than what I just did here.
- [65:03]
Host
Go read Basketball, She Wrote. It'll make you a smarter, just basketball person, period. That's it. Caitlyn, we really appreciate you coming on.
- [65:12]
Caitlin Cooper
No problem, guys. Thanks for having me.
- [65:19]
Host
Foreign.
- [65:25]
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Caitlin Cooper
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