Loading summary
Transcript352 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:07]
B
Welcome to the Saturday slam and jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show, we have Fred Katz joining us and we're talking about all the trades. What has happened to the NBA. I feel like there's been so many trades that have happened that have, like been head scratching. And we're going to break it all down here with Red Cats and then we'll do some trivia. With me, as always, is my good friend Alex Spears. Alex, what's up?
- [00:34]
C
What's up, Andrew?
- [00:36]
B
And our guest, Fred Katz of the Athletic, one of my favorite people, Cats and Shoot podcast. Great show, Fred. Welcome to the show.
- [00:46]
A
Hi. Thank you. Longtime listener, first time caller. I'm really excited. Also super nervous is the only podcast I get genuinely, unbelievably nervous for because the trivia just humiliates me every single time.
- [00:58]
B
In the wake of the Jaylen Brown trade, friend of the show Jared Weiss wrote, speaking to people around the league, I still have not found someone who thinks this Jaylen Brown trade makes sense. Fred, now that you've had some time to think about it, does this trade make sense to you from the Boston side at all?
- [01:17]
A
Here's what I'll tell you. Hey, Jared Weiss, tell me you're not talking to the Celtics without telling me you're not talking to the Celtics. Because if you ask the Celtics, it makes sense. I mean, they did it.
- [01:28]
B
Yeah, they did do it.
- [01:30]
A
They did it. I think the way to make it make sense is that the Celtics felt like their situation with Jalen Brown had gotten so untenable that they could not go 24 more hours while having him on the team. And that is kind of the only way to make it make sense. Otherwise, I'm just like, I don't really get the return because the reality is if you told me, you told me 48 hours ago, Paul George is definitely getting traded. I know Paul George is getting traded. What do you think the return is? I would say, okay, it's probably matching salary and then they have to attach one or two first round picks in order for Philadelphia to get off of him. And in that sense, now, I think Philadelphia probably gave up better picks than they would have to if it was just Paul George for actual matching salary. But in that sense, Jalen Brown conceptually is not that far off here from matching salary and he's got an extra year left that Paul George doesn't have. But he's also a way better player than Paul George is right now. A way healthier and more durable player than Paul George is. Right now. And even if you're on the low end of Jalen Brown, he's still, I mean, look, the seventh best player on a, on a team is still a good player. Still someone who gets burned. Still a good player. You still think he's a good player? Like, no one doesn't think Jalen Brown's a good player. He's a, he's a good to good player.
- [02:59]
B
He was the Finals mvp.
- [03:00]
A
He was the Finals mvp.
- [03:02]
B
They won the NBA championship with him being the Finals mvp. Of course he's a good player.
- [03:06]
A
He was sixth in MVP voting this year.
- [03:10]
C
Yes.
- [03:11]
B
Like, like the season that just finished.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah, like, like a few weeks ago when it came out, he was sixth in MVP voting and there were people who were furious that he wasn't top five. Like, he, he, he was second team all NBA this year. He was really good. He averages 29 a game. I mean, I, I thought it was a really great get by Philly. I understand the contract is really large, but even if you view it as purely an asset play, if you're like this is a distressed asset and the Celtics are settling for something way below what you thought it would be, then go capitalize on that good player. So I, I, I obviously really liked it from Philly's perspective. That's not something that, I mean, I think anybody would really disagree with. And I was a little confounded possibly guy Boston settling for that level when they were like a, a, a Hugo Gonzalez away from attaching just that one guy and getting Giannis that.
- [04:16]
C
Okay, that's the part that I can't like square because that was, that was two weeks ago. So was that reporting wrong? Which it seemed that was coming from a lot of places that they had a very competitive offer for Giannis and, and that, yeah, maybe like Hugo Gonzalez was like a deciding factor one way or the other. It's hard for me to believe that that was true. Now looking at where this has gone,
- [04:42]
A
I don't know either way. Far be it from me to correct everybody's reports when they might know more about what was going on in that situation than I do. What I will say is that I think I'm going to quote a great, a great philosopher who, who we all, I would say, we all vastly respect. And his name is Jalen Rose. And it is another Jalen, really the trailblazer of Jalen's. True, the first Jalen, Jaylen Brown wouldn't exist without Jalen Rose. Well, I guess that's not true. His name would just be like Frank or something. It just wouldn't be Jalen Frank Brown. But Jalen Rose says you don't. Wait, now I'm forgetting the Jalen Rose quote.
- [05:30]
C
Oh, all that preamble, the setup.
- [05:34]
A
Now I remember, honestly, that to, to quote, quoting another person quoting a quote.
- [05:42]
C
No, you're going to forget it again.
- [05:43]
A
Just saying Dion Waiters, Deon Waiters, when I was covering him, once said, you know, someone asked him about, like having a bad shooting night and he was like, you, it's like that, that Kobe quote, I'm not going to go over nine. Then he was like, you know, I forgot the quote. But it's a good quote.
- [06:02]
B
Yeah.
- [06:04]
A
Anyway, Jalen Rose says, you don't get what you deserve in negotiation. You only have. You don't get what you deserve. You only get what you have the power to negotiate. And since the Giannis situation with the entire league, that knowing how disgruntled the Jaylen Brown situation in Boston has become, I just don't think Boston had the power to negotiate. I don't think they had the leverage in any of these talks. Look, here's what, here's what I will say. Like Brian Windhorst went on Hoop Collective and, and he talked about how there are. I forget exactly how he phrased it. There are people with the Celtics that thought that Derrick White had a better year than Jaylen Brown did last year, that Derek White was really their best player. I mean, that's 100% true. Like, that's 100% true. And it's not just people with the Celtics, they're Kenny Atkinson in a game against the Celtics before a game against the Celtics in like March, early March, Cleveland was playing the Celtics. And Kenny Atkinson before a game, said in a pregame press conference that Derrick White was a top five player in the NBA. Top five player in the NBA. Then I asked him a follow up question about it because I happen to be sitting there and he did not like, I was like, whoa, top five play. Does it mean top five underrated player, like, nude was like, made it very clear he was talking about top five player. And here's why. All these analytics backing up why. And then I asked him again about it or I asked him about it after the game and he was like, no, I stated it clearly. Like, I wasn't exaggerating or anything like that. And made it very clear that was what he thought. Kenny Atkinson's a coach of the year. You know, like, people think Derek White is really, really good. That being said, I mean, I think Jaylen Brown. I understand contexts are different and that kind of stuff, but I think Jaylen Brown should probably get you a larger return than Walker Kessler does.
- [08:13]
C
Yeah. In the, in the ongoing very interesting analytics versus Itest debate, is this season setting up. Is this going to be the final battle of analytics versus eye test in terms of what happens this season with the Celtics and Jalen Brown? Well, we got an infinitive winner.
- [08:34]
A
You know what? You know what bothers me about all of this?
- [08:37]
C
This.
- [08:38]
A
The Jaylen Brown conversation is not even analytics versus itest. It's not even what it is. It's just. It's just mainstream stats versus on off. That's all it is. Yeah, that's literally all it is. It's just like, well, the on offs for Jaylen Brown aren't good. That's not good analytics. That's not good analytics. Analysis. That's not good analytics. Worse, if all you're doing, you can find analytics that tell you that Jaylen Brown is not the quality of player he is. You can find advanced numbers that tell you he's not the quality of player that people think think he is. That he's not a top six player or top eight player, top 10 player, whatever else, top 15. You can, you can make the statistical case about that. If anyone is saying to you, well, the on offs aren't good and, and thus he. He just must not be that good. They're not doing their due diligence on their statistical research. And that's all this is. It's just like, well, The Celtics were six points per 100 possessions. Worse, with Jaylen Brown on off the court this year, which is impacted in part by the fact that they have an unbelievable bench and some of the lineups they played when he was off, they still had a very good net rating when he was on, he held up a lot of lineups with, like, weaker guys. Jaylen Brown had a really, really, really good year this past year. I put him second team, all NBA. I didn't really have any doubts about putting him third team, all NBA. Like, he was very cleanly second team, all NBA for me. And
- [10:03]
B
all.
- [10:04]
A
All this conversation is, is just like points, rebounds, assists versus on offs. That's all it is. And it's like, you know what? I actually watch this and I'm like, I think everyone is wrong. Like, I think everyone's wrong. If you're just grading a guy on points, rebounds, and assists, you're doing it wrong. You're just doing it wrong. There are a lot of guys who are better than their numbers. There are a lot of guys who are worse than their numbers. And if you're just grading a guy on his on offs, you're definitely wrong too. So like, you're all wrong. Everyone's wrong. Your process is wrong. Everybody's wrong. This is why I don't like coming on this show. Everyone's going to hate me at the end of it. But like, it's become so silly. The conversation is so silly. I'm tired guys.
- [10:46]
C
Thank you.
- [10:47]
B
Thank you.
- [10:47]
C
Fred, take that for data. Fred, you wrote an article for the Athletic last week titled Knicks should Foot Second apron Bill. Not doing so would be even more costly.
- [11:00]
A
Now.
- [11:00]
C
Mitchell Robinson is now in Boston and recently replied to OG on an Instagram post quote, I tried brother. I didn't want this to happen. Hopefully the truth comes out at some point. How significant of a loss is this for the Knicks as they look to defend their title next season?
- [11:15]
A
It's a totally significant loss. I mean, he is at worst one of the best backup centers in the league. At best the best backup center in the NBA. Stan Van Gundy had that sixth man of the year vote for him clinging onto it. He is one of the greatest offensive rebounders of all time. When the Knicks missed the shot when he was on the court this year, he got the rebound 23% of the time that if he played enough minutes to qualify for the league leaders, that would have shattered shattered Dennis Rodman's single season record for offensive rebound rate in one year. I mean, he is just one of the greatest offensive rebounders out there. I think he's a great fit with Boston. He's a great fit with Joe Missoula. Joe Missoula has gushed over Mitchell Robinson in the past and that's not just through his words and press conferences and that kind of stuff. It's also through his actions. He was the first coach who started intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson before his team got into the bonus and was just intentionally fouling him into the bonus and made it very clear that the reason why was because he wanted to get Mitchell Robinson off the court as soon as possible. I don't think there is a coach in the NBA who spends a higher percentage of his life thinking about and dreaming about offensive rebounding and extra possessions more than Joe Missoula does. And now he's got the best offensive rebounder in the league who is also. I mean, Mitchell Robinson's a very good defender. He is a good rim protector. He's a very good pick and roll defender. He's got great defensive instincts. He's a playoff riser. He's had some huge playoff series and some huge playoff moments. He can guard out in the perimeter. He can guard down low. He's versatile. Like, he. He's. The only thing with him is the health. If he, if he could play 28 minutes, 75 games a year, he'd be getting a lot more. He'd be getting a lot more than 47 million over. Over three years. It's. It's the health with him.
- [13:11]
B
Yeah. Fred, I would pay you a lot more than you think to ask Joe Mazzulla about his dreams.
- [13:18]
A
It might turn out great. Yeah, like, he might.
- [13:24]
B
I'm just saying I would want. I want to find out.
- [13:26]
A
Yeah, okay, I'll take the money. I. Obviously, I have no shame, so I
- [13:34]
C
might ask, hey, did you ever ask Mitchell Robinson which finger is the most important for rebounding?
- [13:41]
A
You know, I should have. I didn't.
- [13:43]
B
Fred, That's.
- [13:45]
A
That's, you know, that's me dropping the ball. That's me dropping the ball. Stefan Bondi wrote a fantastic column on Mitchell Robinson in the New York Post for Thursday morning. And, and, and had a fantastic anecdote that. I was there for that. Before Game 5 of the NBA Finals. Mitchell Robinson was. When the media was in their pregame and Mitchell Robinson said he had just finished judging a bikini contest at the Atlantic City truck show via FaceTime. And he had just finished.
- [14:24]
B
It gets a little better every sentence.
- [14:26]
A
So they asked him if he would judge the. The bikini contest, and he said he was. He was out of town. He had the finals. And he judged it via FaceTime. He said. He said he had just finished doing it from the locker room and we were cracking up. Cause this is what pregame conversations with Mitchell Robinson are. So I apologize for not thinking about the finger ranking, but, I mean, there was other conversations happening with him that were pretty pressing and we had to get some details on.
- [15:04]
B
Let's. Let's talk about the Sixers. They previously looked like they were in, like, semi purgatory with the Paul Georgian and bead contracts. How meaningful do you think the addition of Jaylen Brown will be? And are you. Are you ready to put them in, like, the contender tier in the East? And how are you thinking about, like, all of the east contenders in general right now? Like Knicks, Boston, Indy, Philly, Miami, Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland? Like, there's just, like, a lot of them.
- [15:31]
A
I'm not sure I would put them in the Conte. I mean, they're very, very good. I Don't think I would put them in the contender tier because I don't know if they have the depth, which is something that played them last year. And I also am just not really ready to believe in Joel Embiid for four. For four playoff series. And I think in order for them to be considered like a contender, you need Joel Embiid for four playoff series, not just for one. The whole concept of the Sixers last few years was they have the talent, they have the ability to beat anybody in any series. And that was kind of proof of concept when they faced the Celtics in the first round this year and they come back from 31 and they beat them and then they crap out in the second round and Embiid looks like he can't really move anymore and it's a different team now. One of your health liabilities and Paul George is now out and Jaylen Brown, one of his great traits is how durable he is. I mean, that guy plays, he plays all the time and he is going to be available and that's going to be a huge, huge up for them and a big deal and will make them better and will make them probably have a better chance in the playoffs because they can sustain it for a longer number of runs. But if Embiid is not able to do it and if they don't really have the depth, Simons, I think made a lot of sense for them. I like that move for them. I assume Dean Wade is going to be in their starting lineup as just kind of like a good, good defender, good wing defender, low usage kind of guy. I think he would make a lot of sense in that starting lineup. I assume Edgecombe is going to make a, you know, make a normal improvement as a second year because he's a excellent talent and had a great rookie year, maybe more than normal, but I don't know if they have the depth to win four. And I just don't have the, the faith in Embiid's health to be able to have him win four. But they're super talented and could they, could they have the two guards and Jaylen Brown take them to win a couple of playoff series? Yeah, sure. I mean, they're, they're one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference, which is also deeper than I think people give it credit for being.
- [17:36]
C
I, I mean, that list that Andrew just read, that is eight teams. Knicks, Boston Pacers, Sixers, Heat, Pistons, Raptors, Cavs, two of those teams are going to be in the play in and they're, that, that's like a terrible outcome based on how all those fan bases are feeling right now.
- [17:54]
B
Feels like the west, like, it feels like the west has felt for a while where there's like so many teams that are like all in and like, yeah, there's going to be massive disappointment for somebody, you know next season.
- [18:04]
A
Yeah, there's going to be disappointment. There's going to be an unusual amount of disappointment in the middle of the league next season because there were nine teams at the end of last year for a lot of last year that just like were actively trying not to win. And those teams are going to be trying to win this year with the new rules. And what's going to happen is those teams are going to win, say five more games and there are nine of those teams and that's 45 wins that are going to be picked up from other spots in the league. That's 45 wins that are coming out of top 20 teams win totals. And chances are it's not going to be because the Chicago Bulls be the spurs three times or four times, or the Thunder three times or four times. It's going to be because they beat teams in the middle. So that's going to be 45 wins coming mostly out of the middle of the league. And these teams that like, surprised and had nice 43 win seasons. I mean, the Suns are one that I think about a lot on this and the Hornets are one that I think about a lot on this is. Which is funny that they're like trade partners. The time is like, the Hornets won 43. They, they traded LaMelo, the Suns won 45. They made a weird, weird Grayson Allen, Royce O' Neal trade for Miles Bridges. And, and I don't think, I think they probably overplayed their talent level last year to begin with. It's like you take four wins out of their total, five wins out of the total. Now you're talking about a 500 season. And, and things are, things are going to look different, I think, for a number of these teams in the middle than what they expect it to be purely because of the new rules. And then you add in the extra depth and teams trying to compete and it's like, well, you might have. We might see a lot of teams that are super disappointed in their seasons because everybody thinks they're going to win. That's the curse of parody, I would say.
- [20:03]
B
Before we move on from the Jalen Brown thing, do you have a feel for why other teams wouldn't have done this deal? Like if, if the Wolves are Trading for Lamelo, would they not have, like, given up a similar deal to get Jalen Brown? Like, wouldn't. Wouldn't you rather do that?
- [20:22]
C
They couldn't, though. We'll argue about this later. But they did. They did not have the picks that Philly had.
- [20:30]
A
Yeah, yeah, I think.
- [20:31]
B
And maybe draft picks were the thing, but it's like, in my opinion, like, you probably do give up, like Jaden McDaniels, who I think is really valuable. Like, I'm just wondering about like other teams, like getting the money. Like, maybe the. Minnesota is not a great example, but like, yeah, sorry, maybe Minnesota is a bad example, but I know you're good. I'm. I'm saying, like, I don't. Maybe Minnesota is not a good example, but I just feel like with what Philly had to give up to get him, it just feels like there would be a lot more teams that would want to take a chance on a guy who was just six in MVP voting. He's finals MVP not that long ago. I just don't understand that.
- [21:12]
C
The obvious one for me is Portland and we'll talk about what trade they did make later. But like they did have, they did have the picks and they did have contracts.
- [21:21]
B
Sure.
- [21:21]
C
And they were clearly willing to do a big move. So that's the one where I'm just like, why, How. Why did they not go.
- [21:29]
B
Yeah, how did it had a Portland end up in a place where they're like willing to make a big move, had the picks and the trade they walk away with? Is John Moran in the world? But yes, we'll, we'll. We'll table that for a minute.
- [21:42]
A
I think, I think everyone's just scared of really big money. I know one, everyone who's on a really big contract now, all we hear is that the value is just not there. I mean, look at what Trey Young went for. Look at what Anthony Davis went for. Jalen Brown is a, is a much better player than those guys. Like, he's, he's a, he's in a different, he's a different class of player than those guys. You know, Anthony Davis is a great player, but he's never healthy. Jalen Brown's a different class of player. I'm not arguing that he's in those guys group. I think there's just like a fear of the huge contract, of the huge max deal. There's a fear of that around the league. There's a fear of that in this, you know, two apron league where everybody is. I think, honestly, I kind of Think that large contracts are kind of becoming a market inefficiency. That's my, like, I kind of think go out and get the big contracts. Like, so I don't, I don't hate what the Wizards did because they didn't give up that much. And if those guys play really well, maybe as NASA play, they could flip him for more. Like I have to. I, I really believe that Jalen Brown comes in, has a really good year in Philadelphia. Philadelphia wants to move on. They probably can. They could probably recoup more than they got, than they gave up for Jaylen Brown, even though he's got. He's gonna have less time left on his contract too. So, like, I kind of think it's becoming a bit of a market inefficiency. That's my take. I think people are going too far in the direction of being scared of these contracts. I think people are maybe a little bit too afraid of the second apron. And owners are maybe using it. Not. Maybe owners, not all of them. Some of them are using it as an excuse when they just don't want to pay. And front offices, some of them are using it as an excuse when they just don't want to retain a guy.
- [23:36]
C
Yeah, yeah. Let's head to the other coast where the Lakers cap space plan has happened. We've seen the results of it. After resigning, Austin reaves, Rob Pelinka waited for the perfect moment to strike with the Lakers announcing a flurry of deals within a short span of time. The biggest of those was the Walker Kessler sign and trade, which cost two firsts, two swaps and a four year, $130 million contract for Kessler. Now a high quality center was clearly the Lakers top priority. They got it done. Do you think Kessler was a worthy gamble to fill this important role for the Luca Lakers?
- [24:12]
A
It's a lot of picks for Walker Kessler.
- [24:15]
C
It's a lot of picks.
- [24:17]
B
It's a lot of money For Walker Kessler.
- [24:19]
A
It's a lot of money and a lot of picks. You know, if it was just the money, I'd be like, okay, you know what? It's hard. It's hard to get a center. Centers are going for a lot. Centers are going for a lot. Like, like you can't even get a center. You can't even get a third string center for a minimum. For the most part. Yeah, it's like true. It's like Ariel Huckport, he went for more than the minimum. You know, Jackson, Jackson Hayes is going for the taxpayer jock landell is costing $14 million for a year. You know, like you, you look at what the market is for centers and if, if you can, they're just going for a lot. Hartenstein got three for 75. And centers are just expensive. Which is I think why we see Detroit and Duran going through what they're going through, which is like Detroit is trying to play its low leverage of restricted free agency and Duran is like, look at what these center like Walker Kessler is getting $130 million. I was all NBA last year. Come, I'm 22, 23 years old. Come on now. And, and that's why I think we see Detroit and Duran in the place that they're in. But centers are expensive. It was just the money. I'd be like, centers are expensive. It's, it's, it's not my favorite, but it's not the worst. And if it was just the picks on a, on a smaller deal, I'd be like, you know, you got, centers are high valued, you got to give up something. But when it's the picks and the money, I'm like, that's. It was, I thought it was a lot. And I don't want to say the Lakers are locked in because it's not like they're in some position where they're a ridiculously expensive team, but they are locked in in terms of like not really having tradable draft capital. And this team will be good, they'll definitely be good. But are they good enough? I don't know if they're good enough with, with this crew. Even though the rest of their signings were like, you know, Austin Reeves is, Austin Reeves is really good. He's just going to cost you, he's going to cost you four for 185. That's just, that's just the going rate for a guy who averages 28 and near double digit assists like he did this past year. And Quentin Grimes is a, is kind of a jack of all trades. Good, good player to have, you know, coming off the bench or alongside those other guys. And Mamo had a great year for, for Toronto last year. I don't know if defensively they're going to be good enough. Offensively they'll probably be really high powered. You have Luka, you're going to be high powered, but I don't know if they're good enough.
- [27:10]
C
All right, Fred. One of the biggest trades this off season was the Lamelo to Minnesota deal, which has become the biggest argument between Andrew and me since we hotly contested whether Deion Waiters was actually good at basketball. Now, before you give your opinion on the trade from Minnesota's side, Andrew and I would each like to give you a 60 second pitch for why Minnesota should or should not have made this move. Now, Andrew, would you like to go first or second?
- [27:41]
B
I'll go second.
- [27:43]
C
Okay, I'm getting my phone out. I'm setting a timer for 60 seconds. All right. Are you ready, Fred?
- [27:50]
A
Yes.
- [27:51]
C
Here we go. Two back to back conference finals appearances and a hard fought run this postseason definitively show that this Wolves team is a playoff riser. But this iteration of the Wolves had likely reached their ceiling. Knowing this team's limitations and knowing that Dante DiVincenzo would be out next season, running it back was not a viable option. With mounting pressure, real or imagined, from Anthony Edwards, the Wolves needed to maintain their defensive floor and identity with McDaniels and Gobert. And so I ask you, Fred, what better player could the Wolves possibly have gotten for the package they gave up? Lamelo is not only an overall talent upgrade, but also a talent that addresses some of their biggest needs, offering an elite playmaker and secondary score to reduce Ant's workload. I won't pretend he doesn't have injury concerns, but. But for all the talk about how smart Charlotte's front office is, how about we have a little more faith in Tim Connolly, the guy who put together a championship roster in Denver and multiple conference finals teams in Minnesota. Is trading for Lamello a risk? Yes. But the biggest risk was doing nothing. Something the great GM Tim Connolly would never do.
- [28:57]
A
Wow. I was waiting for a buzzer. Was that six hours or one minute?
- [29:03]
C
I actually did a stopwatch accidentally instead of a countdown. All right, Andrew, are you ready?
- [29:15]
B
I'm ready.
- [29:17]
C
60 seconds starts now.
- [29:20]
B
Lamella Ball has has been in the league since 2020 and he's not played one playoff game. And this is the guy that you're hinging, like all of your hope on. He's also a guy that not only has he not been in a playoff game, but he's just. He. He's not the kind of guy that I would want around a still youngish developing roster. I just don't think he's going to help you. I just frankly don't think he's a winner. I don't know why you'd want to bring him onto your team. I know they didn't have to give up a lot to get him, but it feels pretty desperate. This is a Wolves team that doesn't have a lot of depth. Now they're certainly much smaller in a league that's getting bigger. I know they still have Gobert, but they don't have a 4. They don't really have a good backup 5. I'm worried about that for them. And then just like the shot quality that you're going to get from Lamelo I don't think is going to help you. They'll be super fun. They'll sell a lot of jerseys if that was the goal. Great job. You did good. But if you want to win basketball games, Lamelo ball is not the guy.
- [30:19]
C
And time, time. All right, Fred, what is your opinion?
- [30:24]
A
Am I saying my opinion or am I giving out a winner? I feel like I have to give out a winner. I feel like I just witnessed a sanctioned debate and I have to give a winner.
- [30:32]
C
Oh, okay, sure.
- [30:33]
B
Whatever you'd like to do.
- [30:36]
A
Alex wins.
- [30:38]
C
Thank you.
- [30:39]
A
Alex wins.
- [30:40]
C
Thank you.
- [30:41]
A
Mostly because he rigged it so he could get more time, but he still wins.
- [30:46]
C
I admittedly did go two seconds over.
- [30:49]
A
I, I, I'm talking so much about swinging pendulums today. Pendulums swung too far on Lamelo too. Swung too far. It, it swung too far. Then we all realized in real time this season that the pendulum swung too far. We were like, whoa, the Hornets playing great team basketball when Lamelo's out there. Yeah, he's still doing some crazy stuff.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah.
- [31:17]
A
You want to see a, a few one legged threes a night? You probably don't want to see it, but if you do, you're still going to see it. But, but lot of winning habits. The Hornets are playing great defense when he's on the floor and when he's off it. Those, those on off numbers that we all love so much. That we in the analytics community all love so much. Not so bad with Lamelo. Pretty damn good. Hornets were really good with Lamelo on the court last year on both sides of the ball second half of the season. They're one of the best defensive teams in the league. They're one of the best offensive teams in the league. They're one of the best rebounding teams in the league. All whether Lamelo's on the court or not. And they're even better when Lamelo's on the court. They're even better when Lamelo's out there. He's playing limited minutes because of his body and because of his injury history and because of the ankles. And I understand that is something that has to factor into everything because health is unbelievably important and now that everybody gets hurt all the time. Health is more important. But that being said, everybody, every player gets hurt all the time. Now, if you're only going to trade for players who are healthy all the time, you're never going to trade for anybody other than Jalen Brown. And nobody wanted Jalen Brown, apparently. So you're just never going to trade for anybody ever. And Lamelo should have been in the conversation. Should have been in the conversation, not on it. I'm not saying he got robbed of all NBA, but he, he, he was on my short, he was on my, my, my list. If there's a fourth team, all NBA, I think there's a decent chance Lamelo is on there. After the season that he had, he had a really good year. We all talked about. Look at Lamelo. He's winning. He's winning and he's helping the team win. They're not winning in spite of him. He's winning and then he gets traded and we all act like it didn't happen. Maybe Lamelo took some steps. Maybe he's maturing. Maybe he's a young player who's actually starting to get a little bit better. Maybe, Maybe guys who are really talented can get good at the thing they're talented at. I, I, I just, we're all writing off Lamello.
- [33:10]
C
We're all right.
- [33:11]
A
We're all acting like this year didn't happen all of a sudden when the Hornets were the darlings. They were the darlings of the NBA and we're all writing it off.
- [33:19]
C
Why this is so funny because this is exactly what I sounded like on down to dunk when me and Andrew argued about this.
- [33:26]
B
His like, pitch is getting higher and higher and higher as like he, he gets more passion. It's just like his pitch gets higher and higher. Yeah, I get all that. I just also think that the, the Charlotte Hornets did a really good job of selling when they did. And that's my, that's, that's how I feel about it.
- [33:41]
A
Maybe they did, maybe they, they may have done that. Like, maybe we're going to look back on him and be like, you know what? That was Lamelo's best year. It was his healthiest year. It was his best year. And the Hornets recognize what was happening in real time. And they traded him and they got the best value they were going to get for him before his value started to crap out. He's on not the most expensive contract, but an expensive contract. He's making 40 some odd million for the next few years. And maybe they just didn't want to be in that business. Maybe it's possible, but he's an incredible talent and a very good player. When Minnesota needed something and to be perfectly honest, when I'm not trying to get like insane about it, like I'm not obsessed with it from Minnesota's side, but I do think that people are acting like this Lamelo season that we just all witnessed and we all praised. People are acting like it doesn't matter. When we try to project Lamelo into the future, when it should matter. It is a reasonable take to watch what happened this past season and believe that Lamelo can build upon it. That's a reasonable take and it should be a reasonable. It should inspire a reasonable, intelligent response. And I think we're all writing it off like it'll never happen. When it could, it could.
- [35:09]
C
Speaking of writing it off, another point guard got traded. John Morant going to Portland in a move no one saw coming. Have you been able to talk yourself into this deal at all from the Portland side? Because I'm still at a loss.
- [35:23]
A
Yeah, yeah. Alex wins again. Yeah, I. Are they going to start John Moran? Damian. I mean, Chris Hands reported they're going to start John Moran and Damian Lillard together.
- [35:35]
C
What's. What's going on?
- [35:37]
B
Why. Why did this happen?
- [35:40]
A
Portland was like feisty defensively this year and, and, and you know, fast paced and they're just gonna, I guess, do away with that identity. I mean, also like with Morant's injury history and Lillard coming off of the torn achilles in his mid-30s, like how many games are those guys gonna start together anyway? You know, like maybe they're each insurance for each other and Lillard's not really expensive insurance. You still have scoot there. I mean, Lillard's not really expensive insurance. He, he's mid level exception money. But yeah, I, it's not. I did not understand that from Portland's perspective at all, to be honest. Like, I don't get why that's the guy you go after. I mean, if you're doing it,
- [36:47]
B
if
- [36:47]
A
you're doing it because Memphis has given up picks and you're doing it for the picks, then that I get. And I kind of thought whoever got job was going to be doing it for the picks, but that obviously wasn't what materialized. And I. They've been trying to get off of the Jeremy Grant contract for a really long time because they gave him $30 million a year on a five year deal. And once every single day that goes by, that contract becomes a little bit more valuable because there's one day less time on it, and I think they're probably in a habit of trying to get off of the Jeremy Grant contract now. There's, what, a couple years left on the Grant deal, right?
- [37:24]
C
Yeah.
- [37:25]
A
So it's not that big of a deal. He's still a good player.
- [37:29]
C
He's also cheaper than Jaws.
- [37:31]
A
Yes.
- [37:32]
C
Makes less money. That's my whole issue. Like, if my team is going to trade for John Moran, I either want cap relief or some draft assets. The only upside of this trade cannot be just hoping that John Morant returns to the way where he was four years ago. That can't be the only upside. There has to be something else there. I feel like they've taken all the risk in this trade, and I just, I don't understand it at all. Okay, Fred.
- [37:57]
A
Totally. And to be clear, by the way, everyone talks about Jaws as a, as a character thing and what, whatever else, we could, we could have this conversation. Never once mention what anybody thinks of him as a human being. It's just like he's a small point guard whose body has completely stopped breaking down. Has started completely breaking down. He's played 79 total games over the last three years, and part of that is because of the suspensions, but most of that is because of the injuries.
- [38:23]
C
Yes. He has not played seven consecutive games since 2223. He can't shoot on a team that desperately needs shooting. It can't defend on a team whose identity was going to be defense. And now they're adding in John Morant and Damian Lillard. Coming up.
- [38:36]
B
Achilles.
- [38:36]
C
I don't get it. Okay, lightning round. Fred and I need this to be lightning quick, so eight, Eight questions. You don't have to give long answers.
- [38:46]
A
Quick answers. Lightning good. I'm really, I'm really good at quick. I, I, I never talk, so.
- [38:51]
C
Okay, here we go. Number one favorite basketball fit for LeBron James on court.
- [38:57]
A
Golden State. Easy.
- [39:01]
C
Really?
- [39:01]
B
Wow. Really silly.
- [39:05]
C
Yeah.
- [39:07]
A
Yeah. How fun is LeBron and Curry together? Yeah, it seems so disappointed.
- [39:15]
C
No, it is. It's just, I don't know, I just feel like he's such a good fit on Philly. It's like what Philly needs. I mean, look at their. Their who they've been playing at the 4 the last couple seasons.
- [39:26]
A
What happened to lightning? What happened to lightning?
- [39:28]
C
Okay, I'm sorry. Two words. All right. Okay. You're right. You're right.
- [39:31]
B
Okay. Okay. Ignore, ignore, ignore. The basketball fit. Which situation would lead to the best LeBron documentary?
- [39:39]
C
Any team. Any team.
- [39:41]
B
Any team.
- [39:43]
A
Any Team.
- [39:44]
C
Oh, any team. Just purely as a documentary.
- [39:52]
A
The Shanghai Long Lions.
- [39:56]
C
Why would that be?
- [39:57]
A
Tell me you wouldn't watch LeBron just saying screw it and playing a season in China. Tell me you would not watch the documentary about his life that season.
- [40:06]
B
Let's change the question. Best NBA team. This is NBA player. Okay. NBA team. Go
- [40:17]
A
the. I mean probably the Cavs from a narrative standpoint. Probably the Cavs.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah.
- [40:25]
C
That's like a real reason.
- [40:26]
B
Yeah.
- [40:27]
C
I was thinking Minnesota because if you have Ant and Lamelo just consistently in
- [40:33]
B
a documentary team teammate wise, that might be the. The most fun like imagining those guys around him.
- [40:40]
C
But as a real story, Cleveland probably is the best.
- [40:42]
A
Yeah. I mean I gave you guys. I gave you guys the unserious answer and the serious answer. That's true. I gave you both of them and
- [40:49]
C
you did it quickly.
- [40:50]
A
Maybe we compromise and we say the Canton Cavs, which is the G League
- [40:55]
C
team favorite role player edition of the off season. Try to keep it below 15 million per year. Were there any like smaller signings that you just really liked?
- [41:11]
A
Scrolling through the signings, Let me see. I like Tim Hayer. Hardaway Jr. To Miami. That's the exact kind of player they could use. I think that was a good signing. He'll be a really good addition for them.
- [41:26]
B
How about your least favorite role player addition of the off season? 15 million or less.
- [41:36]
A
Can a resigning count for a guy who they treat. I didn't really get the Kevin Herder contract.
- [41:42]
C
Yeah.
- [41:44]
A
I was so surprised to see him get. I mean he had a really down year, was out of the rotation. I was so surprised to get him three years for 27. If by the way, if we can go a hair above on favorite. I really like the Spurs. A hair above 15. I really like the spurs. Adding to Bias Harris for 31 for two years. I think he's a perfect fit from a. Both an encore perspective and a personality perspective. Like he's. He's just. He's just perfect. He can. He can play the role that kind of. Barnes ended up falling out of last year and can be really good in that locker room and is experienced and unbelievably popular teammate and will be able to stay on the floor during major playoff series and he. He's. That was a good signing. I like that a lot.
- [42:32]
C
What about team most prime to take a step forward based on their off season.
- [42:41]
A
Damn. I gotta. I haven't even thought about this. Who's the most primed to take a step forward? Thinkin win totals we're Thinking win totals. I mean it's probably either Washington or Utah. It's probably Washington because they're going to be bringing in Anthony Davis and Trey Young who basically didn't play last year and they have Debance with the number one pick. And you know their young guys probably make another leap. Like Saar made really good improvements last year and I feel like they might be the team that adds to their win total the most from last year when they were just trying to lose so hard. So maybe Washington, even though I think they probably end up out of the. I think there's like a decent chance they end up either the very bottom or out of the Eastern Conference play in picture anyway.
- [43:35]
C
Yeah.
- [43:36]
B
What about team prime to take a step back?
- [43:41]
A
Phoenix, let's go.
- [43:43]
C
Phoenix.
- [43:45]
A
I think, I think there's a lot on Devin Booker's shoulders. I did not like the Bridges trade for them. It's supposed cleared up money but not in the long term. But not really because they're going to have to pay Bridges and there's a decent chance. I mean Bridges extension eligible number starts at actually a little bit higher than the amount of money that Royce o' Neill and Grace now are already making. I gave my justification already for why I think some teams that, that were in the middle last year are going to fall. I think you probably shave five wins off of Phoenix's total to begin with and then you get to kind of overperforming and them downgrading the roster a little bit. Like it's not like they've made exclusively bad moves or anything like that. I thought the Colin Gillespie contract was like a really good contract. I thought the Jordan Goodwin contract was a really good contract. But I think we're going to see regression from that team this year. And I could, I could see them especially with a lot of these other teams now trying to compete with Utah trying to be better and these other teams trying to be better. I could see them, I could see them fallen down the standings from. I mean they were seventh in the west last year. I could see them eight seed. I could see them falling from there.
- [44:52]
C
Great final answer in our lightning round. All right, let's move on to Andrew versus the beat eight questions. Fred, choose the number between one and eight.
- [45:04]
A
Seven.
- [45:05]
C
Seven. Finally everyone's been picking one. It's annoying. Nicole Vucevich Vooch is going back to Orlando on a one year deal. There are only 14 active players who have more career points than Vuch. We're going to name them all. So Fred will give a Name. Andrew will give a name. We'll go back and forth to one of you stumbles. So just career points, active players. More career points than Vuch. Pretty easy question.
- [45:29]
A
LeBron James.
- [45:30]
C
LeBron James. Number one, Andrew James Harden. James Harden. Number three, Fred.
- [45:39]
A
Kevin Durant.
- [45:40]
C
Kevin Durant. Number two, Andrew.
- [45:43]
B
Steph.
- [45:44]
C
Steph Curry. Number six.
- [45:48]
B
Back to Fred.
- [45:51]
C
I was trying to count. This is an easy question.
- [45:56]
A
Russell Westbrook.
- [45:58]
C
Russell Westbrook.
- [45:59]
B
Number four.
- [46:01]
C
Back to Andrew.
- [46:04]
B
I mean, DeMar DeRozan.
- [46:07]
C
DeMar DeRozan. Number five,
- [46:11]
B
Fred
- [46:13]
A
Dame.
- [46:14]
C
Dame. Number seven.
- [46:15]
A
He's naming guys we already discussed who are on my mind.
- [46:18]
C
You have named the top seven. Here we go. Here's the back half. Andrew, pg Paul George. He is on the list.
- [46:28]
B
Yes, he is.
- [46:30]
C
Number 10,
- [46:33]
A
Giannis.
- [46:35]
C
Giannis, number 8. Just a few names left.
- [46:43]
B
What about kyrie?
- [46:44]
C
Kyrie, number 11 on the list. That was a risky one. I feel like Fred.
- [46:51]
B
Yeah.
- [46:54]
A
Jimmy Butler.
- [46:55]
C
Jimmy Butler is incorrect, which means Andrew gets the point. Andrew, what would have been your next name?
- [47:04]
B
I was going to say Jokic.
- [47:06]
C
Jokic. Number 14, just ahead of.
- [47:10]
B
Really? That is so weird.
- [47:13]
C
The other name is Anthony Davis. Makes sense. Devin Booker. Makes sense. And then the one that I think. I don't know if you would have ever gotten. Brooke Lopez.
- [47:23]
B
Brook Lopez.
- [47:25]
A
38 years old.
- [47:26]
C
Yeah.
- [47:28]
A
And he's still doing it.
- [47:30]
C
Andrew, board is yours.
- [47:32]
B
One question.
- [47:33]
C
Number one. Paul George was traded for the third time in his career on Wednesday. Among active players who are six, eight or shorter, only five have more career rebounds than Paul George. Those names are Al Horford, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Draymond Green, and this player. So 6/8 shorter, more career rebounds than Paul George. And these are active players.
- [48:00]
B
Active players. And the six, eight or shorter is the.
- [48:08]
C
Okay, I was kind of surprised Al Horford was listed as 6, 8.
- [48:13]
B
Yeah, he.
- [48:14]
C
He was there. That's why I gave him to you, because I wouldn't have thought of him as a 6, 8 or shorter guy.
- [48:18]
B
Yeah, I would not have thought of him either. Golly, I don't know. Kawhi.
- [48:26]
C
Kawhi. No. Fred, you have a chance to steal.
- [48:32]
A
Can you. Can you say the names for me again?
- [48:34]
C
Al Horford, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Draymond Green, and this player, LeBron. No, he's listed at 6, 9, I think, on basketball reference.
- [48:46]
B
Sorry.
- [48:47]
C
Uh, it's actually one of your favorite signings. Tobias Harris. Tobias Harris, wow. Fred Katz. Fred Katz. Fred Katz.
- [48:58]
A
Uh, number three.
- [49:00]
C
Number three this summer. LeBron James.
- [49:04]
A
I feel like. I feel like you're just. Thank you. For clarifying,
- [49:13]
C
James will change teams for the fourth time in his career. The first time he changed teams was 2010. During that summer, LeBron granted meetings with six teams. Cleveland, Miami, and these four franchises. You have to name all four. So the other four teams other than Cleveland and Miami that LeBron met with in 2010.
- [49:39]
A
I can't pass and hope Andrew gets it wrong. You could, and then if Andrew gets it wrong, I get the point.
- [49:45]
C
Nope, nope, nope.
- [49:46]
A
Oh, no.
- [49:47]
B
Nope.
- [49:48]
A
No.
- [49:48]
B
Okay, wait. Why would it work that way?
- [49:50]
A
I don't know. I was just improving.
- [49:52]
C
What if I didn't get to do the work? What if I didn't do the work and then Andrew did it but didn't get it all and then I could come back and.
- [50:01]
A
It's exactly what I was trying to figure out. All right, well, I know the Knicks are one of them. Okay, you said Miami and who was the other team? You said Cleveland. Oh, well, you gave the really obvious ones, huh?
- [50:16]
C
I did. Correct.
- [50:17]
A
I'm trying to remember, man. 2010. I wasn't covering the NBA then. It was New York. It was. Wasn't the Shanghai Long Lions. I'll tell you that. It was.
- [50:32]
C
I'll tell you that.
- [50:33]
A
I don't remember. I don't remember the team, so I'm not going to get it.
- [50:36]
C
What were you doing?
- [50:38]
A
I was in college. I was probably pretty drunk.
- [50:43]
C
Oh, my gosh. Can't get one more.
- [50:50]
A
Philly. No, Andrew don't remember.
- [50:57]
B
Knicks, Nets, Clippers, Bulls. Wow.
- [51:01]
C
That is correct.
- [51:02]
A
I forgot. He met with the Clippers and the Bulls.
- [51:06]
C
Damn, Andrew, that was clutch.
- [51:08]
A
I don't remember. That was a long time ago.
- [51:10]
C
Andrew, board is yours number two.
- [51:12]
A
This is why I don't do well in trivia.
- [51:14]
C
It's okay. I think you're going to do well on this one. Zach Collins returned to the Bulls on a two year deal after his next contract runs out. What will be Zach Collins career earnings? Now, Andrew, you get to choose who answers first. You can make Fred answer first or Andrew answer first and then you know how it goes.
- [51:37]
B
Fred, you get to. I'll let. I'll let you answer first.
- [51:40]
C
All right, here we go.
- [51:41]
A
Fred, lock in Zach Collins's career earnings.
- [51:45]
C
You have been out higher career. No. You're going to set the over under and then Andrew's going to go over or under. That.
- [51:52]
A
That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. Okay, I think Zach Collins. Are we including the $17 million total as. As part of his earnings?
- [52:03]
B
Yes.
- [52:03]
A
Okay. He was making A lot of money before I want to say Zach Collins is. I'm going to set the over under at $75 million.
- [52:17]
C
Okay, Andrew, would you like to go over or under $75 million over? Correct answer is $90,204,311. Congrats to Zach Collins.
- [52:35]
B
Wow. All right,
- [52:39]
A
Andrew.
- [52:40]
B
Good to be tall. I can't see the whole thing, but I'll. There's number four available.
- [52:48]
C
Wait a second. It's Fred's. Fred, it's your. It's yours because Andrew made you guess.
- [52:53]
B
Yeah, that's true.
- [52:54]
A
Five.
- [52:55]
C
Five. Kawhi was traded to the Raptors for the second season.
- [53:00]
A
Wait, which Kawhi?
- [53:01]
C
Kawhi Leonard.
- [53:02]
A
Okay, got it, got it, got it.
- [53:03]
C
Kwai Leonard was traded to the Raptors for the second time in his career this week. The first time he went to the Raptors. The spurs received DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Pertle, and a top 20 protected 2019 first round pick who was eventually selected with that 2019 first round pick.
- [53:20]
A
Oh, my gosh. I remember this. I actually do remember this.
- [53:24]
C
Here we go. Here we go.
- [53:25]
A
I'm going to remember something.
- [53:27]
C
All right.
- [53:30]
B
It's.
- [53:31]
A
Oh, it was Keldon Johnson. It was Keldon Johnson.
- [53:34]
C
Two points. There we go. On the board.
- [53:38]
B
Got to remember something. I'll go with number six.
- [53:46]
C
Number six. Paul George and Brandon Ingram have now been traded three different times in their careers, but they're going to need to work a lot harder to become the most traded player in NBA history. A player who was moved 11 different times during his career. Who was it?
- [54:07]
B
11 different times in his career, 11 different trades.
- [54:12]
C
Most traded player in NBA history.
- [54:17]
B
Okay. Somebody in my mentions mentioned somebody that had been traded a lot.
- [54:22]
C
Yeah.
- [54:23]
B
And I don't know if it's this player or not.
- [54:26]
C
Okay.
- [54:32]
B
If. If they're. If, if this is the case, I'll have to give them a shout out after. Afterwards. Jim Jackson.
- [54:41]
C
No. What?
- [54:42]
B
Okay, Fred. Okay.
- [54:45]
C
I would go block them.
- [54:47]
A
So you're.
- [54:48]
B
You're blocked. Now, whoever mentioned Jim Jackson in my.
- [54:51]
A
Well, Jim Jackson played for. The guy who played for the most teams was Ish Smith.
- [54:59]
C
Ish Smith, who broke.
- [55:02]
A
It was. It's. Jim Jackson played for 12 teams. A couple other guys played for 12, I believe. So I believe the answer to this question is somebody that I covered. Now, Ish Smith was waived a lot and signed with a lot of guys, so I don't think he's the answer.
- [55:18]
C
Interesting.
- [55:19]
A
And I think the answer is another guy who I covered who got traded 90 million times.
- [55:24]
B
Who is it?
- [55:25]
A
I think it's Trevor Ara.
- [55:27]
C
That is correct.
- [55:28]
B
Fred. Whoa.
- [55:29]
C
We've got a game. It's four to three. And Fred, you have control of the board. You could pull ahead right here.
- [55:36]
A
I. I honestly control the board is overrated. It really doesn't mean anything because I get most of them wrong. So I would rather not have control of the board. So I'm going to go with number four because Andrew wanted number four before I did.
- [55:48]
B
I couldn't see if it was available from. My screen is like, not right.
- [55:52]
C
Okay, I'm warning you up front, this is an annoying question. I really want you to listen to the words that I'm saying.
- [55:58]
B
Okay.
- [56:00]
C
As of the recording of this podcast, there is only one NBA team that has four former All Stars currently signed to their roster. Which team is it?
- [56:12]
A
Well, I guess Harden's a free agent, so it's not Cleveland.
- [56:15]
C
There you go. See, you're thinking smart. That's correct.
- [56:18]
A
Because they're not currently signed.
- [56:20]
C
Yes, yes. They have to be currently signed.
- [56:28]
A
Four former All Stars. Four. Oh, and the Kawhi trade hasn't happened yet, so could it be the Clippers?
- [56:44]
C
Is that your guess or you just.
- [56:46]
A
Well, I guess the Kawhi trade. It wouldn't matter. I mean, the. I'm going to guess the Clippers. The Clippers have four guys.
- [56:52]
C
They've had three. Garland, Lopez, Kawhi.
- [56:56]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [56:58]
C
I don't think they've had a fourth.
- [56:59]
A
No. They haven't had a fourth. Well, no. Oh, Bradley Beal didn't pick up the player option. That's why. Yeah, all right. Well, I guess I'm wrong.
- [57:11]
C
Told you it was annoying. Andrew, Warriors. Draymond is currently not under contract with the Golden State warriors, but they do have Steph Porzingis and Horford.
- [57:22]
B
Horford. Jimmy.
- [57:26]
C
Oh, you got me, Andrew. That is correct.
- [57:31]
B
I was like, am I overthinking this?
- [57:34]
C
That's a good one. The other team that I was thinking of was the Portland Trailblazers, who now have Drew Dame Jaw and Denny aia.
- [57:44]
B
Well, that's hilarious.
- [57:46]
C
Yeah.
- [57:47]
B
Wow. Maybe that's why they did the trade. I mean, that sounds good.
- [57:51]
C
It does. Now that I've said it out loud, I'm coming around on the trade. Okay, final question. Question number eight. And the. The hint for this one is that this answer is incredibly difficult. And I do think that will help you. Andrew Wiggins resigned with the Heat on a three year deal. Which teammate has Wiggins played the most games with in his career? And the hint was this is an Incredibly difficult answer. So that should help.
- [58:21]
B
It's an incredibly difficult answer. That should help.
- [58:25]
C
That should help.
- [58:27]
B
Andrew Wiggins played the most games with this player. I don't know. It's not Towns, is it?
- [58:37]
C
No, that would not be difficult. Fred, any guesses, like in his career,
- [58:44]
A
who's he played in his career?
- [58:47]
C
Most games? I don't know about minutes.
- [58:49]
A
Oh, the most games with.
- [58:50]
C
Yeah, most games. And by a margin by like 70 games, which I thought was interesting. Again, very hard.
- [59:00]
A
Are you describing the difficulty of the question or are you describing how you're feeling? Making me get this wrong?
- [59:06]
C
Describe the difficulty of the question.
- [59:11]
A
I obviously have absolutely no idea.
- [59:18]
C
Okay, I'll give you another hint.
- [59:20]
A
Draymond Green.
- [59:21]
C
Notoriously good guy. Notoriously good things about this guy. Yeah, maybe notoriously isn't the best way to describe a good guy, but that's
- [59:34]
A
my favorite hip hop artist. Notorious Good Guy. Notoriously good guy. Such a good guy that we've forgotten about him.
- [59:49]
C
Okay. Like, he played 348 games with Cat. He played 427 games with this player,
- [59:57]
A
Jamal Crawford. No, that doesn't make any sense. He played for Minnesota for one year and barely played. That makes no sense whatsoever. Taj Gibson.
- [60:12]
C
No.
- [60:12]
A
Nope. He only played for Minnesota for three years. I'm just thinking of good guys now. Who played in Minnesota? Rubio a good guy.
- [60:19]
B
Who is it?
- [60:20]
C
No, keep. Keep naming good guys. Keep naming nice guys. Gorgi Jang. Yes, it's Gorgy Jang.
- [60:28]
A
Wait, really?
- [60:29]
C
Gorgy Jang. 427 games played together. Isn't that wild?
- [60:33]
B
I was joking.
- [60:35]
A
I can't believe you got that.
- [60:37]
C
Gorgy Jang.
- [60:38]
B
I was joking.
- [60:39]
A
Gorgie Jang has spurt a Spurs executive now. So they get the good guy vibes.
- [60:44]
C
Yeah.
- [60:46]
B
Wow.
- [60:46]
C
Isn't that wild? I would have never guessed that. That's why I said wow.
- [60:49]
B
Wow. Shout to Gorgy Jang. Okay. Gord.
- [60:54]
A
Gord. Gord Guy Jang.
- [60:56]
C
Nope. Nope.
- [60:58]
A
Too much of a stretch.
- [61:00]
B
Nope.
- [61:01]
A
Good Guy Gorgi. Good Guy Gorgi. We could call him Good Guy Gorgi.
- [61:04]
C
It's really what he is.
- [61:05]
B
If you really need to come up
- [61:06]
C
with something, just screaming into the mic, good guy Gorgi. Is that something? Is that something?
- [61:13]
B
I did it.
- [61:14]
C
Good Guy Corky.
- [61:17]
A
Well, I. I lost trivia once again. But at least I lost all my shame as well.
- [61:25]
B
That's what the Slamma Jam is here for. Go read Fred at the Athletic. Go listen to the Cats that Shoe podcast. Patreon. I listen to it. It's great. You can listen to Fred, Talk to Jay King about the moves between the, I guess the Mitchell Robinson signing. They talk about a lot in today's episode. Or I guess we're recording this a few days earlier. But you get the point. It's a good show if you just like the NBA. It's a great show too. So I listen to it. I love it. Please go subscribe to the Cast Shoe podcast. Read Fred and we appreciate you guys listening and we'll talk to you guys again next Saturday.
- [62:04]
A
Sam.