NBA Player Rank: 25-21

Summary

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The Athletic NBA Daily – Episode Summary

NBA Player Rank: 25–21

Date: August 12, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni

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Overview

This episode continues The Athletic’s annual NBA Top 30 Player rankings, revealing and debating players ranked 25 to 21 for the upcoming 2026–27 season. The hosts (Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni) scrutinize each player's value, role, and expectations, often challenging each other's lists while providing context on why particular players landed where they did. The tone is lively, competitive, and analytical with memorable hot takes and candid arguments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction to the Top 25

• Clarity vs. Projection: The top 25 is considered easier to rank than 30–40, as these players are more established and less reliant on speculative projections.
  • "Some of these guys in this part, it’s a little bit of a prove-it time for them, not quite top 20, maybe on the way down…" – Dave (03:00)
• Role & Evaluation Factors: The hosts debate what influences player ranking—team context, individual role, playoff impact, and contract.

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#25 – OG Anunoby (New York Knicks)

• Dave’s Case: Had OG ranked highest (20); values his two-way playoff production.
  • "After the playoff run he had and the NBA finals that he had, there's no doubt in my mind that he's one of the 20 best players in the league." – Dave (03:16)
• Role Player Debate: Zena initially excluded OG from her top 30, viewing him as the Knicks’ X-Factor, not their primary hub.
  • "OG was an X factor as opposed to the guy you scout around or build around." – Zena (04:20)
• Best Role Player in NBA: Esfandiar calls OG the best role player, akin to Derrick White or Aaron Gordon on past champions.
  • "To me, this spot specifically as the best role player in the NBA spot." – Esfandiar (05:11)
• Future Prospects: Expectation for OG to demand more defensive attention next season; possibility of All-Star nod.
  • "I think this coming season is going to be the OG Anunoby All-Star season." – Esfandiar (07:39)

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#24 – Bam Adebayo (Miami Heat)

• Defensive Anchor: Recognized for his elite defense, versatility, and switchability—"can give you a top five defense on his own.”* – Dave (08:36)
• Offensive Limitations: Questions remain about his offensive assertiveness and fit with new star teammates (notably Giannis).
  • "Can you go for 30? ...there's a little bit of a self-limitation on Bam." – Dave (09:06)
• Comparison to Draymond Green: Zena challenges whether elite defense alone can justify top 25 placement, comparing Bam to Draymond.
  • "If you’re putting him there ... where’s Draymond Green?" – Zena (12:44)
• Why Bam Over Others: Esfandiar points to defensive impact and a bit more offensive gravity than Draymond, Gobert, or Mobley.
  • "He’s so good at all the other things that it makes him that valuable of a guy." – Esfandiar (12:44)

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#23 – Jalen Williams (Oklahoma City Thunder)

• Injury-Affected Season: Both Dave and Zena agree Jalen would’ve been higher without last season’s injury struggles.
  • "If we were doing this a year ago, absolutely he would have been higher..." – Zena (17:43)
• Versatile Value: Key as a multi-positional offensive player, strong defender, and secondary creator next to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
• Thunder Expectations: Esfandiar and Zena expect a bounce-back “prove-it” year, predicting possible All-Star contention if healthy.
  • "All eyes are on you to prove that you are better than what you were last year." – Esfandiar (18:43)

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#22 – Pascal Siakam (Indiana Pacers)

• High-End Robin: Esfandiar calls Siakam “one of the best Robins in the NBA,” highlighting his adaptability next to lead stars and defensive impact.
  • "Their defense was juiced. Crazy numbers. Like it was plus 11 points better when Pascal was on the floor defensively..." – Esfandiar (21:19)
• Offensive Fit: Concern about spacing and offensive fit with Pacers’ new lineup—specifically, post touches with Ivica Zubac replacing Myles Turner.
  • "They like the ball in the same spots on offense... I do think it’s going to take some adjustment for Pascal." – Dave (22:57)
• All-Star Potential: Hosts agree he’s consistently All-Star caliber, with a ceiling as high as top 15–17 if he maintains 3-point shooting.

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#21 – Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns)

• Controversial Placement: Dave left Booker off his list (ranked ~32), citing diminished impact as a primary option and questioning his ability to elevate teammates.
  • "I just think Denny [Avdija] was a more effective player. I think he contributed more to winning basketball games..." – Dave (25:48)
• Role Debate: Common thread—Booker would be better suited as a secondary or tertiary star (OG, Zach LaVine-style), not a 1A.
  • "If I’m Devin Booker and I want to go win games…I could be the third banana there…he’s just better as a Swiss army knife guy, glue guy, third best player." – Dave (28:56)
• Defending Booker: Zena emphasizes his competitiveness, shot creation, and ability to deliver tough scores.
  • "I'm taking 26 and 6 on any given night in the way that Devin Booker... I'm taking his competitiveness." – Zena (28:18)
• Peer Comparison: Esfandiar groups Booker among scoring guards (Donovan Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, Tyrese Maxey), suggesting the main difference is “role displacement” rather than raw ability.
  • "You look at his contemporaries …. you wouldn’t take him over any of them." – Esfandiar (29:39)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “To me, this spot specifically is the best role player in the NBA spot.” — Esfandiar (05:11)
• "The defense that he brings me, but he's also going to give you 25 points a game in the playoffs." — Dave, on OG Anunoby (03:47)
• “If you're putting him there ... where's Draymond Green?” — Zena (12:44)
• "I think Devin Booker was one of the harder players for me to pinpoint in this top 30…you look at his contemporaries in terms of scoring guards, … you wouldn't take him over any of them." — Esfandiar (29:18)
• "If the Denver Nuggets could add Devin Booker, I would be so pumped…" — Dave (28:39)
• “I like Devin Booker.” — Zena (28:39)

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Segment Timestamps

• Introduction to Top 25 Philosophy: 01:30–03:00
• #25 OG Anunoby Debate: 03:00–07:51
• #24 Bam Adebayo Analysis & Draymond Discussion: 08:10–14:43
• Thunder/OKC Shouts. #23 Jalen Williams: 16:59–20:19
• #22 Pascal Siakam / Pacers Fit: 21:09–24:42
• #21 Devin Booker Controversy: 25:07–31:39

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Takeaways

• This stretch of the rankings is dominated by “elite role players”, injury bounce-back candidates, and multipositional two-way threats.
• Role context, team fit, and playoff performance heavily influence the host’s views, with frequent mention of how a player’s value could rise or fall depending on their usage.
• The group remains critical yet optimistic about upcoming seasons for OG Anunoby, Jalen Williams, and Pascal Siakam, while Bam Adebayo and Devin Booker’s offensive limitations and fit spark animated debate.
• The pod closes with invitations for audience feedback, promising to revisit the rankings after the season.

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For fans and NBA followers, this episode delivers a sharp, personality-filled deep dive into the “second star” and high-level role player zone of today’s NBA.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperaheni and Zena K. Coming up, our NBA top 30 list continues. Numbers 25 to 21. Maybe a few surprises. Good morning, everybody. What is up, guys? This is the part where we pretend like we know what we're doing. We're making a top 30 list of the NBA. And I think, you know, our. Our first little group, the honorable mention. And 20, 30 to 26, I think it was pretty good. I think that we've landed in a pretty good space.

[Esperaheni]

I think we were being fair, you know, that's all we can ask for.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Zena K]

I like to hear our different methods of what we like.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes.

[Zena K]

How we write these different things. I think it's interesting to think about people, how people are evaluating talent. Is it your players around you? You know, is it like your contract, like Andrew was saying?

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Yeah.

[Zena K]

Is it playoffs? Is it, you know, all these different things. So that was cool.

[Dave DeFore]

I think the top 25 is A. Is a clearer list to make than a top 40, right?

[Esperaheni]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

That, that even 30. 40 is tough.

[Esperaheni]

Even 30 is weird because you start getting into. And we, we did this on the last episode. But a lot of like, what if situations, like if they have this type of season, if they have this type of season.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esperaheni]

Lot of projections. Whereas I don't know how you guys feel about this, but the 25 players that we have coming up are pretty locked into me as the 25 best players in the NBA.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I feel pretty, pretty solid about that. Some of these guys in the, in this, in this part, it's a little bit of a prove it time for them, you know, not quite top 20, maybe on the way down. Right. Like age wise, things like that. So let's jump right in at number 25. And shockingly I had this guy, the highest at 20, OG Anunoby. And I just think after the playoff run he had and the NBA finals that he had, there's no doubt in my mind that he's one of the 20 best players in the league. And I think landing at 25 is, is a very good place. It feels about right.

[Esperaheni]

What's your case for top 20? Because I, I, I probably had him more like 25 to 30. What's your case for top 20?

[Dave DeFore]

The defense that he brings me, but he's also going to give you 25 points a game in the playoffs. You know, the shooting that he's been able to display, he can score at multiple levels. I just think that when you do that and with the all NBA defense that he brings, yeah, maybe I overrate the defensive side a little bit for guys like OG but you don't lose anything on the, on the offensive end with him. There's no compromise in this game that's fair.

[Zena K]

I actually was, I think, the only one amongst all of us to not have him in my top 30. I had him as an honorable mention. And it's, I think for me, I think about the larger picture of the Knicks and we know how crucial OG was. But what did everyone always say? OG was an X factor as opposed to the guy you scout around or like you build around. Right, the factor. Exactly. He was an X factor and so that's what made it tough for me to make him, to put him there. But going into this next season with the run that he's had, it is going to be interesting how much more attention he demands and how much more attention, like is he going to move up the scouting report? Basically.

[Dave DeFore]

I bet teams box him out.

[Zena K]

That's right. Yeah, that's absolutely right. So yeah, I don't know, I, I got to see it a little bit more consistently. We'll see.

[Esperaheni]

To me, to me, I look at this, this spot specifically as the best role player in the NBA spot. And I don't say that as hate, I say that as, as being genuine in it. If we go back and look at the best role players on the last few champions, it's like Derrick White, it's Aaron Gordon, it's those type of players. And I think those guys in those respective seasons were also top 30 guys in terms of the output and how much they were able to contribute to their teams. OG in my opinion is that and I think he is the best role player in the NBA. He is so good at what he does, whether it's the spot up stuff, whether it's creating in a pinch, whether it's obviously defending basically every position. I agree that his defensive value is probably even underrated to this day. You know, he is of course an all defense level defender, but it feels like he still doesn't get enough love for what he provides for this Knicks team that like they ask him to do so much defensively on a night to night basis with a guy like Jalen Brunson at the point of attack and catch as their front court guy. He will be asked to do even more this season without Mitchell Robinson. So I just, I think the value of a player like that, I mean he showed it in the playoffs. That's the best role player in the NBA. And to me the best role player in the NBA snugly fits at like 25 to 30. I had him at 27, so.

[Zena K]

Okay, quick question on this though. Remind me of the people that you just listed out as like the ones from previous years. Derek White. Who else?

[Esperaheni]

Derrick White. Uh, Aaron Gordon would be one, you

[Dave DeFore]

know, if this guy in a trio essentially.

[Zena K]

Sure, yeah. Okay, well, Aaron Gordon does not fit this, but I'm thinking what happened to Derrick White the year after he was sure incredibly good. Right. And the year after he also was incredibly good and then had to come into a season where he had to make up for the fact that Jason Tatum wasn't there.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, right.

[Zena K]

And so that's where I'm like, we'll see.

[Dave DeFore]

How do you feel that vacuum?

[Esperaheni]

Exactly.

[Zena K]

Can I, can I make a pitch here? So I don't know.

[Dave DeFore]

I think we saw it with OG when, when Carl Anthony Towns was in foul trouble.

[Zena K]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

OG was the second best. And let's not forget there were times where he was carrying the workload on the offensive end too. Because you know, Brunson, I mean it has maybe been forgotten a little bit. He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire from a shooting perspective in a lot of those games. And OG was Making shots.

[Zena K]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And so, you know, I just think like from an offensive perspective, maybe he's also a little bit underrated.

[Esperaheni]

I think this season, this coming season is going to be the OG Anunoby All Star season. I think he's going to make an all Star team this year. And the reason I say that is because he is now properly valued.

[Dave DeFore]

He's on the radar.

[Esperaheni]

He's on the radar of everybody. And I think the Knicks will dominate in a way dominate in a way that will allow them to get three all stars. It'll be Jalen Brunson, it'll be Cat, it'll be og. They're just going to destroy the regular season because I think they found a, an identity in the playoffs that really leans into what they're good at.

[Dave DeFore]

Sounds like vindication for me having him number 20. Yes, I appreciate that. All right, number 24, Bam Adebayo. This is going to be an interesting season for him. How does he fit with Giannis? Three point shooting? Obviously his volume went up last season. I think that that's going to. He's going to have to maintain that sort of three point volume, hopefully.

[Esperaheni]

Should he though?

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know if he should, but he's going to need to clear space for Giannis. We know what he does defensively. I mean this guy is one of the handful of best defenders in the NBA. Can. Can give you a top five defense on his own. Right. Like he can walk in the gym and you can have a top five defense as long as you're not playing with scrubs. It's the offensive stuff with Bam that, that always to me leaves me wanting more. You know, he had a couple seasons there. Remember when he used to get to that mid range?

[Esperaheni]

Went away. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

We saw him score 83. Xena being aggressive and all we keep asking for is I don't need him to go for 80 every night. But just hey, can you go for 30? Can you try for 30? Because he clearly has the skill. I think that there's a little bit of a self limitation on Bam.

[Zena K]

Yeah. And I'm curious how much that 83 point game factored into you guys's your numbers.

[Esperaheni]

Honestly.

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Not at all.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

Okay.

[Zena K]

Yeah. Like he is one of those, one of those that like a Rudy Gobert, you know, the defense enough can put you in that conversation of being one of the best players in the NBA. Bam Adebayo. I got. I don't want to sound like Tyler Herro, but like, I don't know if he does it for Me, like, I don't, I, I, I really love his game. Don't get me wrong. I don't know if he is, he's enough for me to be top 30. I don't know. I, I'm looking especially with this new season that's upon us and, and Giannis is going to be taking over the whole, that whole situation. Does Bam do enough offensively alongside someone like Giannis to warrant him getting more the touches that he's had? Obviously he's going to have less touches, but is it going to be, I don't know how offensively that that mixes Bam. Adebayo's not, he's, he can shoot his corner three, he can do that, but he's not necessarily your kick out your, your release. He's not necessarily someone that's going to create off the dribble. Absolutely not someone that's going to create off the dribble. He's, it's not enough for me defensively to balance it out to make him top 30 for me.

[Dave DeFore]

If Miami has a rough season, I think people are going to blame Bam because it's going to be the offense that they're going to struggle. It's not going to be the deep defense. They, they have a chance to be the best defense in the NBA if, if Giannis is healthy, I mean with Davion Mitchell and you gotta score points, you gotta score. You can't have a team that's putting up 88 points a game. Like, it's just, you're not gonna do anything there.

[Zena K]

And when you think about what the Knicks, I mean before the spurs existed in, you know, in the playoffs, they were put 130 point games, right? Like you could play defense all day long. Sure, maybe they won't get that, but you have to be able to match them bucket for bucket at least. And I don't know that, you know, Bam is going to be able to do that with this team. So I, yeah, I'm not the person to ask for Bam. I love Bam for all other reasons and defensive reasons and just as a person, but he wasn't top 30 for me.

[Esperaheni]

So I, I had Bam right in this range. Like I think I had him 25th and he lands at 24. I think to me the defensive value is very similar to OG Anunoby in the sense that it's underrated and it's not talked about often enough because he's not a guy who gets a ton of blocks or a ton of steals, but he's a guy who Protects the rim just as well. His versatility. He's able to switch 1 through 5, genuinely switch 1 through 5. And just the way that he's able to, I guess, amplify everybody around him defensively really will make this team special. At the same time, I think we saw something from him offensively, not just the 83 point game, that, of course, that's a funny thing to talk about, and it was great, and it was historic, whatever. But we did see enough from him in terms of trying things and experimenting and working out the different kinks of his game last season, to where I'm at the very least intrigued of what he can provide offensively. Next to Giannis. I agree with you guys. It's a huge question mark, and it's a question mark that might make or break their chances of an NBA title together long term. But in terms of value, I do think Bam is a top 25 player. I think he's just. He's so good at all the other things that it makes him that valuable of a guy.

[Zena K]

If you're putting him there, you could clip. That first part that you just said laid out beautifully about the defensive value. Where's Draymond Green?

[Esperaheni]

Draymond. You know what? Draymond is a great thing. I. I think Draymond's value defensively is right there. And I. I had him in my honorable mentions. Draymond. His health is a question for me and his age.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, he's quite a lot in the last couple years.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah. Like, when he's.

[Dave DeFore]

When he's healthy, he still can be so disruptive.

[Esperaheni]

Absolutely.

[Dave DeFore]

But you don't have to guard him at all on offense. Bam. You do have to at least guard. Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

And I. You know what, Zena? I would say if I had to get one single stop on a possession, who am I picking, Bam or Draymond? I'm picking Draymond.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, Draymond gets away with a lot, too. Right. Like, let's just. He gets a lot of leeway in the way he guards.

[Accenture Announcer]

Is that a skill?

[Zena K]

Is that a skill?

[Dave DeFore]

It is, absolutely. Well, he knows how to play. Yeah. Well, Draymond Green is the single best defender of his generation, period. He changed the NBA.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I can't say enough nice things about Draymond. Like, I put him up there with probably the five best.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

Like, he.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, 100 him with Bill Russell. Yeah.

[Zena K]

So that's where I'm like, if we can give. If we can give that, you know, we're equating them in that regard of defensive value. Like, is Bam Adebayo 6 spots offensively good enough or better?

[Esperaheni]

You know, the funny thing is 20 spots better.

[Dave DeFore]

Wait, because. Because Draymond also doesn't guarantee you a top five defense by himself. But for one stop, for. You know what I mean? Multiple possessions. I think Draymond's great, but it is just a different thing. And part of that is team construction.

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Right?

[Dave DeFore]

Like, I mean, yeah, Draymond. And also Draymond's undersized center, so he blows things up more than he can just say, hey, our set defense, you know, it's like Rudy Gobert. Rudy Gobert. You know what your defense is going to be with Rudy Gobert? I think with Draymond, you could just do so many different things.

[Esperaheni]

But hey, I'll ask another question here. Okay, so we had Evan Mobley in our top 30. We had Rudy Gobert just outside our top 30 of the Rudy Gobert. You know, Evan Mobley. Bam. Out of Bio trio. Who's the best?

[Dave DeFore]

Probably Bam.

[Esperaheni]

It's Bam, right?

[Zena K]

And Spam.

[Dave DeFore]

Yep. I mean, that's where we landed. So I had to go with it. Guys, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, I think Thunder fans are going to be annoyed with us.

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[Dave DeFore]

So we have a lot of Thunder fans listen to the show. Shout out to down to dunk. Andrew Schlecht, obviously, Mr. Thunder. How about number 23, Jalen Williams? J Dub. And again, a lot of this in this range that we're talking about is about proving it. Yep. And I think last season his health was obviously a major issue, that he never really seemed like he got comfortable coming back from that wrist injury, then multiple hamstring injuries throughout the year in the playoffs. But this feels about right for, for J Dub. I think that my expectation was that he would would have been higher had he had a healthy season last year.

[Zena K]

If we were doing this a year ago, absolutely he would have been higher. Yeah, he showed up in the playoffs a year ago. He showcased the versatility of his ability to score and play defense a year ago. But unfortunately we were going into this season where we do have a lot of questions about can he bounce back to the Jalen Williams that we know he can be. And I really, you know, I again, I kind of blacked out multiple times doing this list and when I came to like, JLo Williams is someone that I'm like, oh, I had him in my honorable mentions, but I would have much had him much higher. I'm a big JLO Williams fan. And what he particularly provides alongside shaggy Gildrich Alexander and how much attention he can demand and perform with that attention. It's just a matter of we just didn't have it consistently last year because of the injuries. And as I say that with a wrist covering on my wrist, like, I feel you, Jay, I feel you Jada. But yeah, we'll see what happens.

[Esperaheni]

So I had J Dub right here, which works conveniently. I had him at 22. He ends up at 23. By the way, for the OKC listeners, Andrew Schlecht had him at 18. So he is top 20 according to Andrew Schleicht. I, for all of the reasons that you guys mentioned, health wise, yes, this is a massive prove it year for Jalen Williams as it is for another Oklahoma City Thunder player. I think those two guys in general, Chet Holmgren and J Dub, like all eyes are on you to prove that you are better than what you were last year. And look, Chet was great in the regular season. I think there were clear questions in the playoffs of like how effective he could be specifically against Victor Wembanyama. And then on the other side for J Dub, outside of the injuries, it's like, okay, you proved that you could be a 36, 37%, three point shooter. Of course you were Very injured last year, but you shot 29 from three. Like can that three point volume and that consistency get back to what it was when you were an all NBA and all defense level player? Because so much of what he does as a creator is off of the bounce, alleviating pressure, off of SGA being this pull up shooter who can drive, who can attack, who can be relentless. He needs to be healthy, man. Like that's, that's just the one thing for him. If he's healthy. I like him in this range. I like him to be, you know, top 30. I'm also truthfully expecting a bounce back year for him. You know, I just think he's one of those guys that will bounce back in a major way. J Dub makes sense in this area for sure.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I, I tend to agree with that.

[Zena K]

And he's an undersized player that can play a lot of positions offensively, which is another big value point.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, again, the defense, there was no drop off. I, I, you know, when he was out there, even, even with the hamstring issues, you know, he still was able to create a lot of chaos and, and to make a big impact there. But the shots didn't fall. He couldn't finish around the basket. Yeah. So I'm with you, with both of you guys. I think that as long as he's healthy this year, the guy's going to be, he's going to be an all star probably. He's going to flirt with all NBA, he's going to be an all NBA defender. You know, I have no, expect no expectation that he's going to have a repeat performance of what he did last season. Up next, number 22, Pascal Siakam. And now I gotta say I had him at 24.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And s, I am not surprised that you had him at 17.

[Esperaheni]

I did, yes.

[Dave DeFore]

Please explain.

[Esperaheni]

I think Pascal Siakam is one of the best Robins in the NBA. I think that means something in this modern NBA to be able to play against or next to any star. Pascal's proven that basically all throughout his career. Obviously his time in Toronto, but particularly his time in Indiana, that he can play and facilitate in a massive way. Their defense was juiced. Crazy numbers. Like it was like plus 11 points better when Pascal was on the floor defensively in their Finals run year. He was a guy who, if, if I'm not mistaken, ended up making the all star team last year. Was, was that a fever dream? Was that something I just imagined? No, he did make the all star.

[Zena K]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

And the reason for that is because coaches respect this guy so much. Like they really like the value that he provides. And yes, I know the Pacers were so downtrodden last year, very, very injured. But Pascal is a guy who, I think once they get back to that level of stability, is very clearly a top 20 player in the NBA and a guy who can do a bunch of different things. The question for him, as it kind of is for like three or four guys here we're talking about with J Dub and Bam out of bio is like, will that three point shooting be consistent? Because with Miles Turner gone now and you now have ivit Zubots in the lineup, they will ask Pascal to space the floor more. You know, he shot 36% from three last year. In the finals run year he shot 39%. If he can get back to that 38, 39% level, he's very a top 20 player.

[Dave DeFore]

The shots should be more open for him. And then the thing about it is that the thing that I'm nervous about with him and Zubac is that they like the ball in the same spots on offense. You know, the little pet post up from Pascal that he likes to do. Yeah, Zubac likes to do it the same thing on the same block. And so when those guys are on the court together, I do think it's going to take some adjustment for Pascal. He's going to have to just space the floor more, pick his spots to attack. The biggest thing though, Pascal Siakam with second units, that's a game changer, the way that he is able to take over the scoring and playmaking load and still bring it on the defensive end. I mean, there's just not a lot of guys that can play to that level. I think that I don't know if he's the best second banana in the NBA because I have other guys that are ranked a little bit higher. But he's pretty close. He's up there.

[Zena K]

I have nothing to add. You guys hit all of that perfectly

[Dave DeFore]

for the reason and we're feeling good about the Pacers. I mean, I think it's.

[Zena K]

I was going to ask.

[Dave DeFore]

You got to see Halliburton, but what,

[Zena K]

what are we thinking? The starting lineup is Tyrese Andrew.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, probably Smith, Nia, Pascal and.

[Zena K]

Okay, well, Neesmith can be your three point shooter, whereas for sure, yeah, Pascal can be the. I think what he was like that, that rover, right. He ran a transition. He starts in the corner, runs that baseline. He's constantly kind of moving a little bit everywhere as you're mentioning Dave, like, picking his spots, I don't know. I like the idea that it is going to be weird because Miles Turner did not do a lot of low post type of hanging out right in the way that Iblisa Zubots did. So it did have, he had more room to cut in the paint and all that. So, yeah, I'll be curious to see how he plays out.

[Esperaheni]

I'll just say this. I think, you know, between Siakam and Halliburton, there's, there's a real chance that, like, the Pacers get two All Stars again next year. And I think Siakam's value is that of an All Star level player. He makes sense to me as a top 25 guy and he has, if he has a good season, which I'm expecting he does, he has value as like a top 15, top 16, 17 player. So that's why I landed at 17 with him.

[Dave DeFore]

All right, number 21. And I think this one could be controversial. I left this guy off my list, made him an honorable mention.

[Esperaheni]

I think that's the most controversial part about, I don't know about that.

[Dave DeFore]

But Devin Booker from the Phoenix Suns, you know, this is, make your pitch.

[Esperaheni]

How is he not ranked? Like, how do you have Joel Embiid over?

[Dave DeFore]

Let me, let me ask. Well, if you, if he was on Joel Embiid is, is an injury case, I think that that's why we differ so much on him.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, if, if Joel Embiid's healthy, none of us have him outside the top 30.

[Zena K]

Here's a better one. Make me the case of Denny Abdia

[Esperaheni]

over, over Devin Booker. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I just think Denny was a more effective player. I think he contributed more to winning basketball games. And, and again, Devin Booker, I, I had him like, he's like 31 or 32 on my list. Yeah. Part of it is I, I, I just think, like, he's the best player on the Suns. That's not, that's not great for your team. Like, isn't it? Wouldn't it be better off if, if Devin Booker was the OG Anunoby for a team, the, the third guy, right. Where he gets to go play with playmakers and be, you know, kind of like Team USA Devin Booker. Right, Right. This is the guy that I think that he would be best at. So part of it is I think he has an outsized role on the team that he is, and it holds him back a little bit. But I just, I don't think he is, I don't think he's that good of a player compared, you know, he's still like the 32nd best player or whatever in the league, but I don't think he is. I don't think he's a top 25 player. You need a bucket. He can sometimes get you one, but it isn't like it was a few years ago. And I think at his best, you know, that that title or that title run that they made, they didn't win obviously, but the finals run that they made, you know, he was at times their best player. But a lot of times he got to benefit from playing with, you know, Chris Paul, who was amazing and killing. And then deandre Ayton got a lot of attention in that season. So some of it is if you surrounded him with better talent, he's going to be a better player, but he doesn't really raise the level of any of the guys that he plays with. Does he make his teammates better? I don't really think so.

[Zena K]

I don't know. I mean, when he came back last year from injury, I did feel like Phoenix had a little bit of a spurt and I don't know if it was.

[Dave DeFore]

And they need good players.

[Zena K]

Right. And I feel like, I mean, a spurt from being able to win some tough games, being able to like, I felt like him and Jalen Green were having a good thing going towards the end of the season. I agree with you that Devin Booker has occupied space in our minds as a star level player, a 1A player because of the position he's in in Phoenix. And we kind of, kind of anchored ourselves to that belief that he is a 1A and I think it impacts his ability to be traded to, to be moved to a team where he would not be a 1A because everyone kind of thinks of him in this way because he's been there for so long. But I'm taking 26 and 6 on any given night in the way that Devin Booker and I'm taking his competitiveness.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure.

[Zena K]

Like, I love that he is a dog and he'll, he'll, you know, lead that defense and get you some buckets he can create off the dribble. We've mentioned this in the last show that, you know, you want somebody that can create on the perimeter and he can get you a real tough shot with a hand in his face. So I'm. I like Devin Booker.

[Dave DeFore]

Look, if the Denver Nuggets could add Devin Booker, I would be so pumped. Wow. For both. And the Nuggets, I mean, that would be unfair.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

Yes.

[T-Mobile Customer]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

But this is my thing is I. I think he needs to go. I mean, I don't know if I'm the Suns. Like, everyone loves Devin Booker.

[Circus Sports Announcer]

Don't trade him.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, your fans love him.

[Zena K]

Don't.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, but if I'm Devin Booker and I want to go win games, I. I'm looking for, maybe I can get to Miami. I could be the third banana there. Maybe I could get Denver. You know what I mean? Like, I think that he's just better as a. More of a Swiss army knife guy, glue guy, third, like third best player on a team. I think he would be so good in that role.

[Esperaheni]

I think Devin Booker was one of the harder players for me to pinpoint in this top 30. And because you look at his contemporaries in terms of scoring guards, right? It's like Donovan Mitchell, it's Jalen Brown, it's Tyrese Maxey. You know, he should be in that group of players, but you wouldn't take

[Dave DeFore]

him over any of them.

[Esperaheni]

And then. Yeah, exactly.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

You.

[Esperaheni]

You wouldn't take him over any of those guys. And so the question you have to ask yourself is why. Why would you not take a player to Zena's point who's giving you 26 and six a night? I think part of that is the playmaking. Like, his playmaking is not as valuable as a maxi. Or you know what? Now that I even say that, I kind of have to backtrack because I don't think Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Brown are any type of special playmaker. Maxi, I would say, is getting better.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esperaheni]

But Booker's value comes from his ability to take and make tough shots. And that has a similar value to Jaylen Brown. That has a similar value to Donovan Mitchell. It's just that Donovan Mitchell is a better three point shooter, so his level of scoring is at a different tier. And I'm very fascinated to see when we get into the Jalen Brown conversation, which is, I guess, a little bit of a tease for our next episode.

[Dave DeFore]

Is it the next episode? I don't know. I don't know.

[Esperaheni]

We'll see.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he might be higher than people think. Yeah. Look again, I think the. The conversation around Booker and Xena, I think you nailed it. He has been a 1A for the Suns and they haven't won anything. They haven't been good with him as the 1A, for what it's worth, like

[Esperaheni]

they haven't seen around him.

[Dave DeFore]

Right. So there is a little bit of that stink that's on him probably for me as well. But this is why I think if

[Esperaheni]

you put him in Durant. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

If you put him in a situation where he's not the best guy, I just think he could, he could really be a better player or better player, but he could contribute to winning.

[Esperaheni]

All of these guys that we just mentioned, right? Devin Booker, Pascal Siakam, Jalen Williams. Right. These are guys who are the second guy on teams and yet Devin Booker is treated as the number one guy on teams. I think that's to what you guys are saying. It's like role displacement. Like if you were the second guy on a team, a legitimate second guy. Yeah. He would probably be rightfully in the top 20 because.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Anybody in this range that you guys feel like we, we were way off on? I don't think so. I feel, I feel pretty confident about this.

[Esperaheni]

I mean, look, I, I made my pitch last week for Lamelo Ball to be in this range. I still would like to make my pitch for Lamelo Ball to be in this range. I just feel like we're all sleeping collectively on this type of player.

[Dave DeFore]

We're going to follow this up after the season, I think, and just see like how, how often do we feel about it? You know what I mean? Our own list guys. Let us know in the comments how you feel about 25 to 21. Am I crazy with Devin Booker? Am I just, am I just missing something here? I don't know. Let me know. That's gonna do it for the show. For Esperahenny and Zena Keda, I'm Dave Duflor and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening.

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[Dave DeFore]

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