NBA Player Ranking 26-30 + Honorable Mentions

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – NBA Player Ranking 26-30 + Honorable Mentions

Date: August 10, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar “S” Baraheni, Andrew Schlecht

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Episode Overview

In this episode, The Athletic NBA Daily crew kicks off their summer Top 30 NBA Player rankings by diving into players 26 through 30, along with a robust discussion of honorable mention candidates and the challenges of ranking players in today’s NBA. The hosts debate methodology, highlight the impact of injuries, recency bias, and contract considerations, and reminisce about NBA legend Don Nelson.

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Key Segments & Themes

1. Remembering Don Nelson (01:58–07:17)

• The show begins on a somber but celebratory note as the hosts pay tribute to coaching icon Don Nelson, who recently passed away.
• Dave Dufour: “Don Nelson’s warrior stuff really was inspirational to me ... he kind of taught me to throw positions out the window before anyone was talking about positionless basketball.” (02:25)
• Zena Keita: “He is like one of the four or five most influential basketball coaches of all time... one of the most revolutionary coaches in basketball and also seemingly all around great guy.” (03:28)
• Andrew Schlecht: “He changed the way people think about the NBA... he kind of helped usher in what is the modern NBA.” (04:19)

Memorable Moments

• Stories of Don’s approachable players’ coach style and culture-changing impact.
• Anecdotes about wild sideline moments and the legendary “Nellie Ball.”

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2. Ranking Methodology & Philosophy (07:32–10:29)

• The panel shares how they approached their rankings:
  • Dave Dufour: Focused on a simple “who would I rather have” scenario.
  • Zena Keita: Mixed methods: “A Jimmy Butler-esque type of method... who could lift a team up by themselves.” (09:30)
  • Esfandiar Baraheni (“S”): Gave preference to players with a track record of high-level winning and playoff performance.
  • Andrew Schlecht: Factored in player health and, controversially, contract situation: “Is your contract making it to where the team is difficult to build around?” (12:19)
• Debate on whether contract or playoffs should weigh into a “best player” rank (13:13–14:03).

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3. Honorable Mentions Discussion (10:29–34:49)

The crew breaks down the just-missed-the-cut group, highlighting their cases and controversies.

Key Players Debated:

• De’Aaron Fox (10:29–14:41)

  • Good regular season; playoffs and contract status discussed.
  • Zena Keita: “I did not discuss contracts in my top 30; leave that for the suits… that ain’t got nothing to do with basketball.” (13:17)

• Dylan Harper & Con Knueppel (14:41–17:36)

  • Harper’s playoff performance fuels recency bias—but opportunity on the Spurs is questioned.
  • Zena: “He was fearless throughout the entire series… at that age, to give your team what they needed.” (15:23)

• Rudy Gobert & LaMelo Ball (18:40–22:13)

  • “S” touts Gobert’s defense and LaMelo’s healthy season as top-30 worthy; others remain skeptical, especially around injuries and defensive regression.
  • Andrew: “...they finally get their head on straight… they trade LaMelo Ball… if he was all of these things…big red flag.” (21:51)
  • Side bet set for whose health holds up: Embiid vs. LaMelo. (24:15)

• Joel Embiid (22:34–26:24)

  • Talent undeniable, but health and declining defense a major concern.
  • “S”: “…the defense has fallen off of a cliff with him.... just a completely different player.” (25:55)

• Cooper Flagg (26:23–28:36)

  • Sky-high ceiling, “motor, defensive intensity” and offensive growth highlighted.
  • Zena: “…back-to-back 40-point games… shot making, creation for his teammates... he’s already top 25 for me.” (27:09)

• Stephon Castle (28:36–29:39)

  • Hailed as perhaps the best point-of-attack guard defender in the league.
  • Dave: “Dunk on Hartenstein… did not have my size, sadly. Otherwise, I would have.” (29:39)

• James Harden (31:12–34:41)

  • Where does regular-season brilliance vs. playoff letdowns leave him?
  • Xena: “He’s gonna put up some points ... he’s gonna get you eight assists a game... What are we talking about?” (31:22)
  • Andrew: “You don’t feel good [about Harden in the playoffs].” (31:12)

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4. #30–#26: Breaking Down the Bottom of the Top 30 (36:23–57:51)

#30: Jalen Duren (36:23–39:00)

• Huge leap, “walking double-double,” but playoff struggles.
• Andrew: “There’s been a lot of young guys that have struggled in their early years of the playoffs and been able to overcome them. So I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.” (36:56)

#29: Deni Avdija (39:00–41:51)

• Elite driving, great rim pressure; questionable defensive impact.
• Dave: “He just continuously puts pressure on the rim. It opens up the floor.” (39:36)
• “S”: “They are touted as these two-way players but I think their defense is a little bit overrated.” (39:53)

#28: Evan Mobley (42:28–47:20)

• Top-21 for Dave, but major questions around aggression, consistency, and long-term position (4 or 5).
• Zena: “There were nights when Evan Mobley forgot that he is the size that he is…” (42:40)
• Andrew: “If they want to optimize this team, he’s got to be able to shoot. You can’t have both guys that don’t shoot.” (43:57)
• “S”: “If we don't see his field goal attempts go up, that's an Evan Mobley problem... his level of just wanting to score the ball more.” (46:26)

#27: Jamal Murray (47:20–53:32)

• A career-best regular season, but disappointing playoffs and defensive limitations question his top-30 spot.
• “S”: “Even when he had his great regular season… I just… what he doesn’t give you defensively is so much of an issue.” (48:03)
• Dave: “This is probably the best that he’s ever going to play... I don’t expect him to even be able to follow it up.” (50:40)
• Debate: Would you take Jamal Murray or Kyrie Irving? (51:49)

#26: Jalen Johnson (53:32–57:39)

• Enormous offensive leap, but must develop a jump shot and defensive consistency to ascend further.
• Andrew: “…there aren’t many guys who can average 22, 10, and 7... he’s just this multi-tooled 6’8” player.” (54:13)
• “S”: “…as he moves into this more on-ball creator type of role, is the three-point shooting... if he can continue to improve that, that will change [him] from a top-25ish guy to a top-15 guy.” (55:48)
• Dave: “I really do think about him a lot like Jokic… if he is more of just a threat to take the open ones, look out because everybody else is going to be more open.” (56:49)

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Notable Quotes & Fun Exchanges

• On Don Nelson:
  “He was a players’ coach that ... trusted his players in a way that we now see a lot more.” — Xena (04:46)
• Contracts in Rankings:
  “Leave that for the suits—that ain’t got nothing to do with basketball.” — Zena, on considering contracts in player rankings (13:17)
• Embiid vs. LaMelo Health Bet:
  “It’s like trying to tell the difference between two different kinds of ketchup.” — Andrew (24:31)
• James Harden’s Playoff Issues:
  “You don't feel good [in the playoffs with Harden].” — Andrew (31:12)
• On Jamal Murray’s Career Year:
  “Career highs in everything … He's not necessarily at the tip of the iceberg.” — Zena (49:29)
• Jalen Johnson’s Potential:
  “Jalen Johnson looks like he wants to murder people when he’s on the court.” — S (55:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------|-----------| | Don Nelson Tribute | 01:58–07:17 | | Ranking Methodology | 07:32–10:29 | | Honorable Mentions Begin | 10:29 | | De’Aaron Fox Discussion | 10:29–14:41 | | Dylan Harper / Spurs' Guards | 14:41–17:36 | | Gobert, LaMelo Ball Debate | 18:40–22:13 | | Embiid Availability | 22:34–26:24 | | Cooper Flagg, Steph Castle | 26:23–29:39 | | James Harden, Regular Season | 31:12–34:41 | | Top 30 Countdown Starts | 36:23 | | Jalen Duren (#30) | 36:23–39:00 | | Deni Avdija (#29) | 39:00–41:51 | | Evan Mobley (#28) | 42:28–47:20 | | Jamal Murray (#27) | 47:20–53:32 | | Jalen Johnson (#26) | 53:32–57:39 |

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Episode Recap: Picks 26–30

30. Jalen Duren

• Walking double-double; youth, athleticism, consistency highlighted; playoff struggles diminish ranking but upside remains.

29. Deni Avdija

• Lane-attacking forward with elite drive pressure; questions remain about defense and offensive versatility.

28. Evan Mobley

• Once a dpoY candidate, now criticized for lack of aggression and iffy offensive fit; pressure to take another leap this season.

27. Jamal Murray

• Career-best regular season, but not enough defensive value or playoff lift to be higher; health and fit with Jokic discussed.

26. Jalen Johnson

• Massive step forward; unique multi-skilled forward, but shooting and defense need work for star jump.

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Closing Thoughts

• The panel agrees we’re entering a “prove-it” tier of the NBA, with most of these players facing pressure to validate their status.
• The conversation is spirited and sprinkled with friendly jabs, keeping the analytic talk lively and accessible.
• Next episode will tackle picks 25 and up, teasing more controversy ahead.

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For Listeners

If you missed this episode, you can catch all the nuanced takes, memorable quotes, and methodological debates here—and be ready for the rest of the Top 30 countdown next week.

Transcript

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[Dave Dufour]

Foreign. Everybody welcome to the NBA Daily. Dave Dufour here with Esperaheni Zena Keda, Andrew Schlect for our top 30 NBA players. This is the first episode. Pretty excited. It's the first time we've done this pretty fun exercise. How's everybody doing?

[Andrew Schlect]

Doing well.

[Dave Dufour]

Doing well.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

Well.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

August, you know, summertime. Summer, summertime.

[Dave Dufour]

A little bit. Before we get to the list, need to say rest in peace to Don Nelson, NBA legend is a player coach. Five time champion with the Boston Celtics. King of the interview. If you've read any of the various profiles about him over the years, Joseph Biancon wrote a great one for the Believer. I believe it came out last year. Just fantastic. If you guys are looking for some Don Nelson, just character study, I would say of Don Nelson. We were last year at the finals in Oklahoma City. We were in the building when he received the Chuck Daly Award. Yes, I loved sitting and listening to his stories. I would say personally as a basketball coach, you know, when I was starting out, Don Nelson's warrior stuff really was inspirational to me. I didn't have big men. I had I, you know, I had shooters. I had a lot of guards and kind of taught me to throw positions out the window before anyone was talking about positionless basketball. And it Was fun to hear him tell the stories of where he came up with the idea that you could play small guys against big guys and just run them to death. And it came from red hour back. You know, in practice they would play smalls versus bigs. Smalls always won and apparently that's stuck in his, in his brain and that's how we got nelly ball.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

He is, I would say he's like one of the four or five most influential basketball coaches of all time, especially when it comes to the NBA. So his like you said the small ball stuff, running gun, playing positionless, having kind of a stretch four in your arsenal. I think of the, the we believe warriors with Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson, but then obviously Dirk Nowitzki and you know, the time that he spent with the Dallas Mavericks and, and genuinely one of the most revolutionary coaches in basketball and also seemingly all around great guy, you know, like was a very, very cool dude post basketball as well.

[Dave Dufour]

Which like really good friends with Willie Nelson.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Well we know why.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, life of the party kind of guy for sure.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

He did change the way that people think about the NBA. Like he, he kind of helped usher in like what is the modern NBA. He was just doing it way early and he coached for forever and he played in the league for a really long time. Like he, it's, it's just strange that there's an NBA without him and now that he's gone, like it's just, it, it feels odd because he is a huge part of the way that we take in the NBA right now.

[Xena]

So yeah, he, you know, everything you guys are saying, like he was in every single bucket, right, as a coach and he was a players coach that I obviously, Chris Mellon is someone I work with out in the bay, loved him and loved working with him because he understood the game from not only just a coach's perspective, but also from a player's perspective. And it felt as if he trusted his players in a way that we now see a lot more with a lot of coaches being able to like you know, run players running their huddles and things of that sort. And I think he connected generational like different levels of NBA basketball right from the 80s and early on basketball where it was a lot of players that ended up being coaches alongside their own teammates and to the like modern architect of a coach that creates a style and an identity and a culture for a franchise in the way that we're seeing it now, where a guy may have not played a guy may have not been an NBA player been, you know, someone that had been in the, in the ranks in that way and they're just now a coach. I think he kind of bridged that gap between the two.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. This the story of, of the warriors trading for Stephen Jackson after the Malice in the palace and Nelly taking him out to go drinking first night in town. That to me, look, that's just good coaching right there. That's how old ball coach just knowing what you got to do, you know, because you coach the person first. And I think Nelly, all the stories that you hear, it does sound like that's what he did.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

The.

[Dave Dufour]

My other favorite story is his team's getting blown out and he, he tells someone at this one of the players getting ready to check in for the opposing team now I got to get out of here. The beers are cold in the locker room. And he proceeds to get two. Two technicals.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

That's awesome. There, there are clips circulating now of like iconic Don Nelson moments as a coach. He like, he nearly got into it with K. You know, if you watch, watch that clip. He nearly. And it's funny, they're basically height to height.

[Dave Dufour]

That's the thing. You forget how big Don Nelson was. I mean this guy was. He was really big.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Kicked a basketball into the stands one time and got ejected.

[Dave Dufour]

I've done that. Yeah, I've done that. You know, it's a story that I've got. Okay. So anyway, yeah, you know, alleged.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Basketball world is much, much sadder without him around. Yeah. Anything else happen this weekend, guys?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Well, not in the NBA.

[Xena]

I was gonna say.

[Dave Dufour]

No, definitely not in the NBA.

[Xena]

The wnba.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, let's get to our, let's get to our top 30 players. We, we've obviously we've got a lot to get through. I want to start with the honorable mentions because there's many. There's a lot of players. And this is. You know, when we, when we came up with the idea to do this project this summer, I said that tears are for cowards. And you know, Laura Murray does tears. Definitely not a coward. Puts in a lot of work. But one of the reasons why you do tears is because man splitting hairs between one player and the next. And when we get to our top three, which should come as no surprise to anyone, we're going to get into how those hairs get split. Yeah. But it is difficult to just come down and say, okay, for me, like, I have De' Aaron Fox as my 30th best player. He is my 30th best player. Like, I You're going through the list and I say, would I rather have this guy or that guy? And that's kind of how I work my way down the list. What about you guys? Was there any particular way in which you approached this that maybe was novel?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I wanted to approach it from the point of respect. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[Dave Dufour]

I was like, how can I be disrespectful, respectful, going, but I'm one of the 40 best players in the NBA. But you're not number 35.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, ultimately I did feel like I swayed towards if a guy has kind of been there and done that, with the exception of a few guys, I gave them that edge. If they had had the experience, if they had won in any sort of way, or if they had competed at a high level and help their team win, I gave them an edge over guys that maybe are a little bit more prove it. Which is. It is how I split the hairs. Eventually I knew where they would end up. But splitting hairs, I was like, okay, this guy is better than this guy because, you know, there's a winning element to what they did.

[Xena]

I blacked out a few times, came back, came to, tried again. No, it was. I kind of mixed methods in the sense of I did do the who would I rather have? And then I kind of did a Jimmy Butler esque type of method, which is like, with no one around you, what could this person do? Right? Like, who could they lift a team up if by themselves type of thing? And. But I think mixing those methods messed me up. And that's why the bottom of my list was actually really tough for me to do. And then I did have a little bit of recency bias. You know, I did have a little bit of who did for sure me in the playoffs that I'm like, yes, I'm. I'm about this guy that he rose to the level of competition. He rose to the level of the stage. But yeah, we're gonna have to just get into it because at least for me, because I'm just like, deep breath, deep sigh, we'll see what happens. This is hard.

[Dave Dufour]

And then there's, you know, injury stuff, right? Like injuries will drag a guy down and then some of which where I'm like, I'm hopeful they're going to be able to get past injuries, but know. So anyway. All right, that. That being said, let's. Let's jump in our honorable mentions. Not necessarily in any order, although there are some guys who are like just right on the cusp. I'll start with number 39. Essentially on our list winds up being Deer and Fox. I. I think this makes a lot of sense to me somewhere in that 25 to 40 range as a player. You know, like, again, if this was tears, I think it's easy to forget we talked about the playoffs. Easy to forget. This guy had a very good regular season last year.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah, he did.

[Xena]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

He was an All Star for a reason. I know he was an all star replacement. But for. For the most part, like, that was a worthy selection. And you know, Xena just talked about Zena C. Bias, Recency bias. But recency bias would tell you that dear. And Fox is worse than this because of the NBA Finals and because of the playoffs. And I think we have to take ourselves away from a really bad stretch of basketball for him and Adam in this group of. He is a top 40 player. He is a top, you know, depending on how you want to qualify him, he's in that range. It just depends where you have him. He's a. He's a guard. That will be very important to a Spurs team that is trying to win a championship. And they will go as. As far as, like, that guy will be able to help him. Help take them. So, yeah, Fox should be included in this. In the honorable mentions group.

[Accenture Announcer]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

He's also only on this list because Dave was the only one that put him on their top 30 and no one else listed them even in their honorable mention. So I'm not sure that he's a top 40 player.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Wow.

[Andrew Schlect]

You also, like, to me, you have to consider not only like, health is a huge one. I think what you can do today is a huge one. And then your contract as well. Like, is your contract making it to where the team is difficult to build around. Now Fox isn't there yet because the spurs are in just a good spot. Eventually they will be in that spot where it's like, what do we do with this dear and Fox contract? And a lot of people are kind of jumping the gun a little bit saying, like, okay, this. We should do this now. Like, do it now to get it out of the way. Eventually contracts like this will be a huge problem. Where Fox is, by the end of this next season, is he the third or fourth best player on the team. And if that's the case and you're paying a guy that much money, that's a big problem. And it unfortunately will like, lessen your value as an NBA player.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I think it's insane to include contracts in A player ranking.

[Xena]

You know what I was just gonna say? I was like, I did not discuss contracts in top 30. That is, leave that for the suits. That ain't got nothing to do with basketball.

[Andrew Schlect]

What has everything to do with the NBA though.

[Xena]

That is circumstantial situation.

[Dave Dufour]

Sure.

[Xena]

In the modern NBA, you're absolutely right. Like, but in this exercise, like the top 30 NBA players, I'm assuming, imagine everyone's contract is the same or imagine that everything is equitable in the way the contracts get split up over the course of the years, over the course of what's available in the, in the pie. Like, I don't, I still don't think.

[Dave Dufour]

Would LeBron be one on a minimum contract? Because that's, that might be the most

[Andrew Schlect]

valuable contract I did.

[Xena]

Right?

[Andrew Schlect]

It did factor in. It's not a huge factor, but it like has to be it.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

It has to be a, a part of your calculus.

[Andrew Schlect]

It has to be a thought. If it's 10% of it, so be it. But like you, it is just a part of the way the NBA ecosystem functions.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

For what it's worth, I think all of us operated on. These are the top 30 players heading into next season. So there is like a anticipatory value projection projection type of thing that we're working with here. And I think it's fine to have Fox here of all places. Like it's, you know, he's not. He was an all Star last year, so technically he was like a top 25 player. It's fine to drop 15 spots, you know.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Up next, tied at 37 is Dylan Harper. Con canipple, obviously. I mean, just last year's rookie class was great. This year's rookie class looks like it's going to be even better. Dylan Harper, we watched him in the finals sometimes looking like the best player on the spurs concept. Obviously he had a great season, but dropped off late. Now he was, I think both of these guys honorable mentions for, for three of us. Xena, you had, you had Dylan Harper and Con canipple or you had Dylan Harper in your top 30. Con canuple is as a honorable mention. How did Dylan Harper crack. Crack the top 30 for you moment?

[Xena]

He met the moment. And again, this was like my recency bias of the playoffs. He was fearless against the Knicks. He was fearless throughout the entire, all of the series. And I just. To be at that age and to be willing to give your team exactly what they needed, that wasn't just outside shots. Right. Because sometimes when we think about young kids all they want to do is just be able to hit the big time shots that are threes, bombs, etc. He put his body on the line, getting into the paint, being able to finish through contact, get into the line, just making some beautiful moves. I, to me thinking about taking what he did and getting that confidence that he clearly got from the playoffs and bringing that into next year. I think he's going to go light years ahead. Like he's just going to be huge next year.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

My question with Dylan Harper and I struggled with it because I had him in my honorable mentions was, you know, it's kind of related to the Dylan. The Darren Fox question is playing time. Are you going to be able to get as much usage and opportunity with those guys? And of course Steph Castle in the fold too. It's, it's a question that the spurs will have to answer this year. There's this insanely talented guard on your bench that clearly needs more opportunity and more usage. And how are you going to sift through that when you have Fox who we just discussed is very important to the spurs and Steph Castle who also likes to have the ball in his hands? It's just, it's a fascinating thing to do because, you know, if, if Dylan Harper was the second guard on this spurs team or the first guard on this first team, I could see the case for him becoming an all star. But it's, it's hard to see the usage and opportunity there for him to end up being like a top 30 guy. That's my rationale for not having Harper.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, it's all about opportunity. It's all about opportunity for, for him and he just is not going to have it. I mean, like there were five guys on his team last year that took more shots per game than him. Now we get that to four guys, three guys. You know, even then it's like, it's going to be tough for him to like showcase what he would need to, to like show that he is a top 30 guy, if any.

[Dave Dufour]

If, if they suffer an injury to Dearon Fox or to Stefan Castle, I don't know how the spurs cannot start Dylan Harper this year. Last year they didn't do it. They kept him coming off the bench. They never put him in the starting lineup. I don't think you can do that two years in a row. I think Dylan Harper is too good of a player and that is gonna, it's gonna force their hand. Yeah, every team deals with stuff and Dylan Harper is just, I think he's good enough. He's going to force their hand up next. 36 and 35 teammates now. Rudy Gobert and Lamelo Ball. And I will say this, Rudy, this is, this is potentially too low for Rudy as far as an impact goes. But it's just. There's a point in which big men just. They do kind of go off a cliff. And I'm not saying that that's going to happen to Rudy. He stays in good shape. He had a great year last year. And I think that the Lamelo Rudy combination is kind of. It's apropos that they're 35 and 36 because that's going to be. We're going to watch pick and roll between these two guys a lot this season.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Now s. You're the only one that had these two guys in your top 30.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Lamello Ball at 23, he was a

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

top 20 player last year. He would have. He was in range for the third team all NBA spot last season. And he had one of his most healthy seasons basically of his career. He ended up playing 72 games, you know, 20 points, seven assists, five rebounds. He was basically on an on off perspective. He was one of the most impactful offensive players in the league. He helped Charlotte to a massive, massive turnaround. And part of the. The reason con canipple was so good, if you look at like his true shooting percentage, part of the reason Brandon Miller was so good was because of Lamelo Ball and the way that he was able to churn that offense in a major way. I think when he is healthy, he absolutely is a top 25 player. And I guess part of my projection here is that I think he will have a healthy season. I think, you know, given the fact that this Timberwolves team wants to stay competitive and be competitive, there's less incentive for them to. For. For him to be on a Hornets team that might want to tank or has other priorities. He will try to play in as much games as possible. I know the ankle issues are there and yes, if, if he's injured, sure he's outside of the top 30, but I think him, he absolutely has the talent to be a top 25 player. And I, I think the. Just the connection between him and Anthony Edwards will make him like man, it's one, it's going to be so much fun to watch. But two, it really is wildly complimentary. Like they complement each other so well in the backcourt. I think that will work really well. Rudy Gobert, as you guys know, in my opinion, was second in defense. Player of the year voting last year. I think he should have been. If Wemby didn't get it, I think Rudy should have won. And I just. I think it's hard for me to imagine a time where he drops off so much where that is not the case. He is one of the most impactful rim protectors in the NBA. Obviously. Still a very good rebounder. I also imagine that. I think the presence of LaMelo Ball will make his life a little bit easier. If you guys remember prime Mike Conley, like he was the only guy who could give Rudy, Rudy Gobert the ball and actually finishing it around the basket, Lamelo should do that too. So I think both of those guys are top 30 players. And you know, hint, hint. I think The Timberwolves have three top 30 players.

[Dave Dufour]

Wow. Andrew, would you like to respond to the LaMelo ball portion of this?

[Andrew Schlect]

I think people know where I stand on LaMelo ball. Would not want him as one of my top players. We've seen him in a. In like that last play in game. Like just like really sticks in my head too. Just the way that that went. It left a sour taste in my mouth with Lamello. He also just hasn't had consecutive seasons of being healthy. You know, there's major concerns also. We look at the Charlotte Hornets as an organization that's finally getting their head on straight. And what do they do in the finally getting our head on straight summer? They trade LaMelo Ball.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

And so if he was all of these things and they know him better than anybody and they're like, sweet time to trade him. Also a big red flag. Lamello a very fun player, but like not a top 30.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

It's not a bad case.

[Dave Dufour]

Hard to argue.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I will say in. In about like six or seven months. Either I have a pie on my face or Andrew has a pie on his face.

[Dave Dufour]

We're gonna come up with a criteria on Lamelo and one of you guys is gonna actually take a physical pie to the face over this. That's what. Just go ahead and mark that down 34. Joel Embiid. I was the only one that put him in my top 30. I had him at 26. This is all injury related with Joel.

[Xena]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And I like for me, I thought about what he did against the Celtics in those games that he was healthy. He actually was really good last season when he was healthy. And I think that this year they are set up so well in Philadelphia to be able to mitigate his absence and to. To allow him to be healthy, especially when it matters the most. Come playoff time, I'm hopeful for Joel Embiid. I mean, he. I don't know if you guys saw the photos.

[Andrew Schlect]

Nothing.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

That's right.

[Dave Dufour]

Muscle Watch hasn't started yet. Oh, come on. I don't mean the ones where he's jacked. I mean the ones where he's skinny. All right, Skinny Joel is showing up in August. I like it. I hope he stays skinny. The leaner he is, I think the healthier he can be. So, yeah, Joel, honorable mention, but not in the top 30.

[Andrew Schlect]

Never, never, ever. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever use photos from Twitter to determine what you think about a player.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

In October. Wait till game one.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah. Simmons apparently. Apparently impressed a bunch of scouts. He's looking to make a comeback. He's physically bad.

[Andrew Schlect]

Bill Simmons, hoodie mellow, don't do it. Don't do it, y'. All.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

He said Bill Simmons.

[Xena]

He said Bill Simmons.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I was like, get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlect]

Ben Simmons, hoodie mellow, don't do it. Even Bill Simmons. Don't do it.

[Xena]

I mean, even Luka Doncic. Men's health.

[Andrew Schlect]

Luca, though, look, he.

[Dave Dufour]

He looked pretty good until he got hurt.

[Xena]

Fair. Did he look like that magazine?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Okay, look, let's play a little game. Do you guys think Joel Embiid will be more healthy or Lamello Ball will be more healthy next season?

[Dave Dufour]

I think Lamello probably plays more games.

[Xena]

It's like, I agree with that.

[Andrew Schlect]

That's like trying to tell the difference between two different kinds of ketchup.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

S. I'm like, yeah, spicy ketchup versus regular ketchup.

[Andrew Schlect]

I don't know. What are we, like, hunts or.

[Dave Dufour]

There's only Heinz, Heinz or Hunts.

[Andrew Schlect]

Like, if.

[T-Mobile/Grainger Announcer]

Could you.

[Dave Dufour]

Isn't everything else cats up?

[Andrew Schlect]

If you just. If you just dipped a fry and either one, would you really know? I don't know.

[Xena]

I'm curious what you all think about the. We mentioned the word opportunity many times now. You think about this Philadelphia team and where Joel Embiid will fit into the opportunity available out on the floor, especially with the LeBron James in the mix of it. Are we. Are we thinking that Joelle's usage and opportunity goes up? Are we thinking that it goes. It stays the same? Because in that. That's how I was. That's what kept me out of Joel Embiid in my top 30. Because now I'm like Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxey, and LeBron and Joel, I'm putting him as fourth, in my opinion.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And so with that, it's just not enough for me to get him to the 30.

[Dave Dufour]

On the, on the offensive side, he has such an advantage when he's healthy over anyone who's guarding him in the east especially. But it's just, it's health and, and that's the only thing. It's not about how good he is. It's not about his skill. It's health. And so if they can figure out how to keep him healthy, I'll say like he's going to have, he's going to have a very high impact in the minutes that he's playing.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

The defense has fallen off of a cliff with him.

[Dave Dufour]

The rebounding is non existent.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

And I think that also weighs into him not being top 30. It's just, it's so hard for him to sustain at that level anymore and he, it just, it's not in him to do that anymore. He's just a completely different player. He used to be a two way beast who could be in defensive player of the year conversations and now that's just not the case. And very talented offensive player. The availability is a question. So is the defense.

[Xena]

Yeah, but that was the, that's the exact opposite argument for my exclusion of Rudy Gobert.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Oh, the offense.

[Andrew Schlect]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, let's, let's keep it going. Cooper flag is up next at 33. I think we all suspect this is the last time that we're going to keep them off any kind of top lists.

[Xena]

Yep.

[Dave Dufour]

You know Xena, you're ahead of us on this one. You got him at 25 on your list. I, I don't, I don't mind that. I just wasn't ready to bump some of the guys. I have.

[Xena]

Sure.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Slightly ahead.

[Dave Dufour]

I, I mean I think when you've got a guy with this sort of motor defensive intensity and then the way we watched his offensive skill develop over the course of the season. Yeah, it's tracks.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Xena]

The back to back like 40 point games locked in like that's. That for me was just unbelievable shot making creation for his teammates. That's another thing too. It's not that he's just creating his own offense. It's the fact that he can create for his teammates and play defense the way that he does. Yeah, he's already top 25 for me.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, he's just a win.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Andrew, I have a question. On the slamming jam, you guys voted him as a potential number one first time all star. I think it was. He was the first overall pick. Why is he not top 30 then?

[Andrew Schlect]

He has, I mean that was me just making a bet. I, I Would. I don't.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

It's a good bet, though.

[Andrew Schlect]

I don't know. I wouldn't say that. He's a top 30 player right now, like today, walking into the season. Right. He could definitely be a first time all Star, though. Yeah, it's. It's also taking into account that, like we're talking about all these other guys that have already been all Stars and that are going to be all stars this year. Like, you can't even take any of them into account.

[Dave Dufour]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah. So that makes sense.

[Andrew Schlect]

You know, like we talked about Yong Han Sen last summer. So, you know, so I'm just.

[Accenture Announcer]

Yes.

[Andrew Schlect]

I just think that he. He's well on his way to being a top 30 player. I just need to see it. I need to see him win. I need to see him impact winning. I think he will. I'm not like saying that I don't think he will, but I just need to see it first before I put him on the list.

[Dave Dufour]

The winning is the most important thing. Speaking of Stefan Castle, that guy's a winner. He might be the best point of attack, guard, defender in the league. I think that that playoff run that they had was pretty incredible outside of the turnovers for him. He. He was. He was.

[Xena]

But he cleaned it up.

[Dave Dufour]

He did well once, dear. And Fox came back.

[Xena]

Right. That's fair. That's fair. No, I like to find Castle. I like his. I like his bounce. I like his energy. I like his swagger with which he plays. And the creation that he had. I mean, the creation that he was making throughout the season with Wemby. I mean, s. You were the one that really put this on the map for me in terms of what those guards look like around Wemby, in terms of Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper. D' Aaron Fox, like, the attack on Stefan Castle, to me, is just unreal. The fact that he finishes at the rim with such bounce and such energy. Yeah, I'm. I'm top 25 for me. Excuse me.

[Dave Dufour]

Dunk on Hartenstein. I'll never forget it.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Incredible, man.

[Andrew Schlect]

It's incredible.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Xena]

The disrespect.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah. I haven't told.

[Dave Dufour]

There's a guy selling a bootleg shirt of it in San Antonio. Did not have my size, sadly. Otherwise I would have. I mean that he just punched that next at 31, just outside of the top 30. He wasn't on my list. James Harden. Slipping Jimmy.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Slipping Jim. Is that what they call him?

[Andrew Schlect]

Slipping Jimmy?

[Xena]

I've never heard that.

[Dave Dufour]

Better call Saul.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah, it is. It is from Better Call Saul. Like maybe, maybe James Harden got that nickname somehow.

[Dave Dufour]

Andrew, you had him in your top 30.

[Andrew Schlect]

I did not. Did I?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

It was Xena and I had him 33.

[Andrew Schlect]

I had him 33. I. I mean, he's still a very good player, but he has such a long career that we can all look at and say that like this is an awesome regular season player. Like genuinely one of the best regular season players of all time. There was a time where you just roll the ball out. Doesn't matter who's on his team is getting 50 wins. Like it's just going to happen. Yep. However, when you get to the playoffs, if James Harden is in your lineup, you. You don't feel good. You don't feel good about it because he just loses basketball games when they really matter. And until he actually does win a game that matters when he's one of the best players, I cannot put him in the top 30.

[Xena]

Here's my thing. Andrew, what was the exercise? Top 30 going into next season. Yeah, right.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And you just laid the claim out. You just laid it out. He's going to be someone that can wake up, barely put his pants on and roll out and get you some wins. He's going to put you some points up. He's going to get you eight assists a game. He's going to be able to get some deflections. It's not going to be the best defense in the world, but he's going to be able to be active in some way. If you got a big man on your team, he's going to eat, going to be at the table with the napkin tucked in, looking good because James Harden is on the floor getting them the ball. Absolutely. What are we talking about to boost

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

that point a little bit? You know, as you guys know, I had LaMelo Ball in my top 25 and it felt wrong to have LaMelo Ball and not have James Harden. I think they are in a. In some way similar in terms of these massive guard creators who can just turn out good offenses consistently, especially in the regular season. Of course there's playoff questions, but like I think I value a guard creator who can just make a top 10 offense by themselves. And those two guys, they can do that very easily. Like that's just the what. That's what they are hired to do. That's what they make money for, is that. And that's very valuable in the NBA. Like it's, it's one of the things that every team looks for. It's why, you know, SGA and All those guys are way, way, way high up on the list is because having a guard creator is so important in the NBA. And yeah, James Harden is that.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, the single most valuable skill in the NBA is shot creation. On the perimeter. Off the dribble.

[Xena]

Yep.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah. So when are we not considering the playoffs, though? Are we not considering winning in the playoffs?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Look, I. I agree it is important.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm not.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Not counting that. But like, it is. It's like one. It's a ranking of players going into next season with. With that in mind, with playoffs in mind, but also with just regular talents.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Also. Yeah, yeah.

[Xena]

No, you're absolutely right, Andrew. Like to incorporate the playoffs, but I think it's also a matter of like, who's gonna get you there. Right. Because there's some of these people, like, I was struggling too, and I went back and forth like some of these people were playoff risers. Were they the reasons their teams made it to the playoffs? Not necessarily.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Right.

[Andrew Schlect]

But Cleveland would get to the playoffs without James Harden though, right?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Would they?

[Andrew Schlect]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Yes.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

In this East?

[Andrew Schlect]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

No, no.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

They're a very, very good team. It's just. I don't know, man. They were. Look, the Cavs were struggling last year when Garland was not available, and it was a lot of pressure on Donovan Mitchell to create everything for them. I. I agree that they are a playoff team. Maybe not. I don't know, maybe. Maybe a playing team.

[Andrew Schlect]

I think they get to the playoffs without him.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I think they're top six.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Dave Dufour]

They've got a. They've got us. That defense is in this Eastern Conference. Yeah, I think so.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

In this current.

[Xena]

I would say last year's. Maybe.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I don't know about this year.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, well, Kawhi's not in the east yet, so that's all right.

[Dave Dufour]

I don't think Kawhi is going to make it to the east, so. Okay, that was our honorable mentions Dearn Fox Conipel, Dylan Harper, Rudy Gobert, LaMelo Ball, Joel Embiid Cooper Flag. Stefan Castle, James Harden. Thanks for playing. You did not make the NBA Daily top 30.

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[Dave Dufour]

I I need a little drum roll here for number 30 on the NBA Daily Top 30 Jaylen Duran O Mr. All NBA had a really terrible playoffs. Did not make my top 30 because of the playoffs. Not to say that he won't be a top 30 guy next season or, you know, heading into next year, but man, that last impression left a left a bad taste in my mouth, guys.

[Andrew Schlect]

I think that's totally fair. I think it's fair to feel that way. I think that if he was himself from the regular season in the playoffs, I think he'd be rated much higher than this. Like, I I think that he would be potentially a top 20 player. He was very, very good in the regular season. He made a massive leap from year three to year four. He's at 11.8 points per game in year three, 19 and a half. And I think his regular season dominance will happen again. Now it's about, I mean, the guy's 22 years old. He'll turn 23 at the beginning of the NBA season. He's still incredibly young. He still has a long way to go and some people might like, well, why do you, you know, hate on James Harden for his track record and not Jalen Duran? There's been a lot of young guys that have struggled in their, like early years of the playoffs and been able to overcome them. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I tried for a decade to give James Harden the benefit of the doubt and now it's gone. But for Jalen Duran, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. There's not many guys that are just like straight up built like him and are as athletic as he is and are as skilled as he is. I know that he's in kind of weird contract limbo right now, but I think they'll get that figured out. I just think that he's one of the most talented players in the league. So I had him at 28, I

[Xena]

believe I had him pretty high. And, and it's because the, the consistency really as a big really was emphatic for me. The fact that he's a walking double double. The fact that he's going to be some level. Even though Isaiah Stewart was more the enforcer on this team, he was an enforcer behind in terms of the second line of defense. There's a reason why he's in these conversations to be paid at the level that he was paid. Yes, the playoffs ruined a lot of that. Definitely declined his value a little bit but there's a reason why it was even a conversation for him to get this sort of like superbacs kind of deal. So yeah, the consistency, the size and the fact that as Andrew said he's so young. There's still so much room for him to grow. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

At number 29, Denny Abdia. This guy is gonna have a weird season coming up because you know, I think he may look, he may look much worse than he did last year because of the, the way that this team is built. Trailblazers team is built. John Morant and Damian Lillard and these guys are going to take a lot of touches from him. But at his best he was a drive machine. I mean he just continuously puts pressure on the rim. It is, it opens up the floor for the. They had these non shooter wings that actually got really good opportunities at, at taking shots that were open because he commands so much attention when he attacks the basket. Obviously he gets to the free throw line. 29 Denny Abdia.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I didn't have Denny or Jalen Dern and part of that is because I think they are touted as these two way players but I think their defense is a little bit overrated. Both of them, they, they can get better. They have obviously the size and versatility to play two very different positions but I, I just don't see their value defensively yet. I think Portland really benefited and Denny really benefited from like to Monica Mara being there and Drew Holiday being there and Donovan Clingan being there like a really, really of infrastructure for him. And the same thing applies to Duran. It's just defensively again being a two way player gives me more to work with. So I, I, I Give some of those guys the benefit. I think with Denny and Duran, there's just. I don't know. This is gonna sound mean, but it's not mean. Gimmicky. Gimmicky is how you could describe what they do offensively, but not in a bad way. They have, like, one thing that they're incredibly good at. Like, Jalen Duran is great at rolling to the basket. Denny Avdia. Dave, as you said, is this incredible driver. But it's like, outside of that, what else are we getting from you offensively? And so if I don't see enough defensively and the offense feels very one track minded, I. I kind of can't put you in my.

[Dave Dufour]

But it works.

[Accenture Announcer]

But it works.

[Commercial Announcer]

It works.

[Dave Dufour]

That's like saying, you know, James Harden, all he does is run pick and roll and shoot, step backs. It works.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

It works.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, I. My thing with. With Denny, I don't think he's as good as a lot of people do, and the defense, obviously, is a big part of that. He's not like a great shooter or anything, but I do think that he's a. He's a better player than the team that he's got around him. The way that they've built around Denny would make you think that they. That he was, I don't know, the 50th best player. Like, we got to get more guys to take the ball out of his hands.

[Andrew Schlect]

Travesty.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I. I just. I don't. I don't think that the team is set up to make him succeed, but I think if they had put a team around him, you know, again, surrounding with shooters, I mean, we. We know this kind of archetype. He's not Giannis, but he's kind of close when he's attacking the basket with the effect of. So, you know, I do think that this is probably about right for him. Right. Right around that 30th mark and he was 29, moving up to number 28. This one's probably going to be controversial. Is it Evan Mobley?

[Andrew Schlect]

Where's the contrast?

[Dave Dufour]

I was highest on him.

[Accenture Announcer]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

What's the contest?

[Dave Dufour]

I was highest on him.

[Xena]

I ain't gonna lie, y'.

[T-Mobile/Grainger Announcer]

All.

[Xena]

I forgot about him.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I had him.

[Dave Dufour]

I had him at 21.

[Andrew Schlect]

Sometimes Evan forgets about himself. So, yeah, it's okay.

[Xena]

And I think that that's possibly why. Right. Like, there were moments in that. In. Throughout the regular season for the Cavs where it's like, it's a Jared Allen night. It's an Evan Mobley Night and the, the switch off and on it again. Consistency matters a lot to me. And the fact that we had nights where Evan Mobley forgot that he is the size that he is and can still shoot outside and can drive baseline and can take folks one on one and has footwork. And then there's nights where he's, you know, making Jalen Duran look like a 12 year old. Like there, there was. It didn't feel like I, I could remember him enough in the midst of everything that was going on with the Cavs. And again, talking about that, that tier ranking, right? Donovan Mitchell, James Harden and then Jared Allen, Evan Mobley. Where. Where does that, you know, where does that land? Even before James Harden, Darius Garland, like, Evan Mobley was never my. Oh yeah, that's the guy. And remember two years ago when he was dpoi, that's what we were like, oh my God, this is. Keep the core together. They're about to win chips. Like, they're about to do it. Like. And yeah, now we're.

[Dave Dufour]

Let me ask you guys a question. Do you guys feel like the Cavs have missed the opportunity to move him to the five like that. That really is to me the thing that is maybe held him back a little bit as far as his value goes.

[Andrew Schlect]

Maybe. I, I think that if this were three years ago, I would say yes. But the NBA now, there's so many teams that play double big that I think it has to be something that you do. Like, they can still play him at the five, you know, like they will play him at the five in spots. But I do think ultimately he may be better positioned to be a 4 similar to triple J. Although he's just a better rebounder than Triple J is, but he's not a great rebounder. And like the Thunder have seen, like when they play Chad at the five, like they have some sincere advantages and some of that is like Chet is like a real threat to shoot. Where Evan, right. Has basically kind of. Yeah, he's had like one or he's basically two seasons of like good shooting mixed with like some atrocious shooting. So is he's just not consistent enough. So I don't, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that this, the NBA today has many, many teams that play double big. And I think that's probably where he's best suited now. If they want to optimize this team, he's got to be able to shoot. You can't have both guys that don't shoot, which is troubling. Which Is what happened last year is like he, the year before he was top 10 in MVP voting. He was defensive player of the year. He made the all star team. He's all NBA second team, all defense, first team this past year. Nothing. Like he wasn't on the all defense teams. He didn't make the all star team. He wasn't in like any top 10 of voting for any category. He like just slipped and a lot of it was his efficiency. And so like, can he regain some of the efficiency? Can he regain like some of the defensive intensity? It felt like he had like almost like run through the line and like he had gotten it deport did all these things and then it's like he just kind of let down for this last season. And so now it's about like, can Evan like get back to the level that he was in 24, 25?

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I just, I need him to play well and play aggressive against teams that actually matter. If you watch him in the regular season against like the Wizards and the Brooklyn Nets, he absolutely beats up on those teams. But then you watch him against high competition against the Knicks or whoever and it feels like he shies away from that moment and his aggressiveness wanes. Like he, he basically has taken 12 or 13 shots per game every season of his career, which seems right around like the mark that you'd expect for him. But with Harden there now, he should get more easy opportunities.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

And roll stuff should be way more available to him. And if we don't see his field goal attempts go up, that's an Evan Mobley problem. That's, that's an issue for him in terms of his aggression, his level of like just wanting to score the ball more. I think that's a big part of his evolution. And I, I agree with you guys. I, I just don't think he's ever going to be able. So they have to find a way to transition him to the five eventually.

[Dave Dufour]

Because he doesn't shoot this year. He's not going to. Because he's going to be the guy spacing out around Jared Allen, James Harden, picking roles.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

He's going to be the guy with the open look a lot and he's going to his knees. Should not just shoot. He needs to make.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah, this is, I think he is. He's one of the more interesting what if? Not even what if, but just biggest question marks heading into next season. There is so much pressure on this guy to become the guy everybody expects him to. And if he doesn't do it this season.

[Dave Dufour]

If they're failing, isn't he the only guy they really could move, you know, like to change, to change things up? Yeah, it's a make or break year a little bit for him in Cleveland. I agree with that. Next up on the list, number 27, finally an all Star, Jamal Murray. I think that the, the playoff failures for Jamal Murray probably stood out in everyone's mind. It also feels like a little bit of a make or break year. We're kind of in the make or break, prove it range in the. In these ranks, I would say. And with Jamal Murray, it's just. It was not enough when, when the, when the game started to matter.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm kind of surprised he made it on the list for you guys. I did not put Jamal Murray in my top 30. I had him at 35 and I know he had a great regular season, like, incredible. The best he's ever had. But even when he had his great regular season, I was. I don't think I would have put him in my top 30. Even though he wasn't an all star. And like, it just. What he doesn't give you defensively is, is so much of an issue of what the Nuggets have. And on top of that, I think the combination of him and Jokic, it hasn't been figured out. It's really hard to figure out, but they have squeezed a lot of juice out of that combination and it's hard to see like, what's all they have.

[Dave Dufour]

S. Yeah, this is the prop. No, this is like also a coaching problem because come playoff time, like you said, it hasn't been solved, but it's been made very, very difficult. Yeah, they're doing this in a shoebox, the two man game. They're playing in like three feet of space.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

And at the same time, it's like to. To the Murray question, it's like, what more can he do? Like, I actually think he is stretched everything out of what he can be as a player. He's an incredible shooter, good score off the bounce, but, like, what more can that man develop projecting forward into next season? I think he's around top 40, but I can't put him in the top 30 because of that. I don't think so.

[Xena]

I'll tell you what made him go into my top 30 and why I think that there is more out of him. Last year he had a season or career high in field goal percentage. He had a career high in three point percentage. He had a career high in the amount of three pointers that he took. And this is year. I don't know, 10, 11 career highs in this. Like, I feel like after his injury, him coming back, he had to kind of rebuild his mental and remember who he was and what he's capable of. Career highs in everything. It felt like that. That across the board, like he progressed and provided more than he had ever had before in his career. So in my opinion, he's just. He's not necessarily at the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn't say that. But I still don't think that we have seen prime Jamal Murray just yet from before. You know, I feel like. I think a lot of people kind of anchor their thought of Jamal Murray in his prime, in the bubble. Right. They think above Jamal Murray from that regard. But I actually think after seeing this season and the fact that he's putting up better numbers since that year and the best in his career, I think there's still more than we haven't seen yet.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, there was a stretch where. Where Jokic was out, and I think it was some of the best basketball. Murray has played 11 games. He averaged 28 points a game, 50, 40, 85 shooting, eight and a half assists, a. A steal and a half a block. That was probably. I think I could point at that as the best stretch of his career, especially because he was clearly the best guy on that team during that stretch. You know, he. Who was his second best teammate was Pton Watson. That's right. Yeah. Because Gordon was out. So I, you know, again, I think that this is probably the best that he's ever gonna play this past season. I. I don't expect him to even be able to follow it up. Health has been a concern for him, too. And this is another guy, kind of like Evan Mobley, where if you're the Nuggets and you're not happy with the way things look this season, that he might be the only option that you have to. To move to maybe try to shake things up. Yeah, I think it would be a step back, no matter what.

[Andrew Schlect]

That's terrifying because you're not going player better than Jamal Murray in a trade.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Andrew Schlect]

And, hey, we got.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

We got a decent question here. Would you guys take Kyrie Irving or Jamal Murray?

[Xena]

I would say Jamal.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I think I would also take Jamal, but it's just. It's worth considering.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, I mean, he. He did not shoot it well from three in the playoffs, but he had, yeah, five out of seven games. He had good games where he was like, delivering for them. And Helping his team. The biggest problem is like they're starting Spencer Jones and Christian Brown. Like how many other playoff teams are starting those two guys? You know? And then like they're, they're playing. Tim Hardaway Jr. Is like their guy off the bench. They had to play Bruce Brown, who did not have a good season. A ton of minutes. They played Zeke Najee like kind of a lot in the playoffs. Yeah, like that is not Jamal Murray's fault. Like the fact that they have mismanaged this roster is not Jamal Murray's fault. In the past. Like Jamal has been a playoff riser and even had to worry about his bad games because you had other guys that could step into those places. Like Michael Porter Jr. I think is a guy that is probably. He's missed a ton in Denver. I think people, I think people underrated the impact that he could have on that team. And then Aaron Gordon being gone. Like you don't really have a chance to win a playoff series if you don't have Aaron Gordon. So like some of this is injury luck and some of this is just like the way that they constructed the roster. You know, I, I think Jamal is still a very good player and a player that if somebody, Jamal was in my, if they could steal him in a trade, like teams should do that.

[Xena]

Oh yeah, yeah. He was, he was very much a Jimmy Butler esque for me, like taking teams up, elevating their play or you know, dependent upon who's around them.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, last but most because this list is being done in opposite order. Jaylen Johnson at number 26. What do we think about Jalen in the growth? I mean he's got to grow, he's got to grow in the defensive end. His defense was, was pretty bad, especially in that series against the Knicks. But I, I think that this is about right for him. He is on the cusp of maybe being an all NBA guy if he puts up those kind of numbers. And I think the Hawks have a shot to win some games. I mean, we'll see.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah, he was already an all NBA guy. He made all NBA third team last year.

[Dave Dufour]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Andrew Schlect]

So like he's. To me there aren't many guys that can average 22, 10 and 7 and

[Xena]

triple double, like walking triple double.

[Andrew Schlect]

He's just this like multi tooled 6, 8 player that yes he does need to get better defensively, but boy like you cannot find guys at his, his size with his like strengths as a score that can also pass like that. And then like, is also a good rebounder, like a lot of the guys on this list, like some of the big guys, like really just speaking about Evan Mobley, like, Mobley leaves a lot to be desired as a rebounder sometimes. And you know, Jalen Johnson does not. And so I just think that the fact that he can be that for them and the hot. I don't know. It's funny that the Hawks always kind of circle back to this kind of team where it's like we're strong from like 1 through 9, you know, and like this is the we're strength in numbers kind of team. And he's like a really good player for that. Now can he rise above that like horfordy level of player to like become like a true like all NBA second team or even close to a first team guy? I think he has the talent to do so and he's got the room to grow now that Trey Young is not in that team anymore. And so I'm really, really intrigued to see what he can be. There's just not a lot of six, eight forwards that operate like he does.

[T-Mobile/Grainger Announcer]

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[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Yeah. So Jalen Johnson made my top 30. He was 29th for me, but I, I think it's fine to put him anywhere from 25 to 30.

[Andrew Schlect]

And out of 24, is that okay?

[Xena]

No, yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

No, no, no. It's a little bit too much for me.

[Dave Dufour]

I got him 29, so I had him 23 actually.

[Andrew Schlect]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

But the question I have for Jalen Johnson and as he moves into this movie, more on ball creator type of role, is the three point shooting. So in the playoffs, in that first round series against the Knicks, he took the same amount of threes as he did in the regular season, five attempts a game. But he shot 29 on those threes. And I think that's why he struggled in a major way in that series. Like he just couldn't get his game off offensively the way he's so aggressive. I wish Evan Mobley had the aggression of Jalen Johnson. Jalen Johnson looks like he wants to make murder people when he's on the court and just barrel his way to the basket constantly. Evan Mobley has the complete opposite of that. I, I just, I wish and I hope that Jalen Johnson's three point shooting is consistent. You know, he was like a 35 guy last year. If he can continue to improve that, that will change from, you know, he's a top 25 ish guy to top 15 guy.

[Dave Dufour]

The ball in his hands is in his hands. A lot, you know, and, and I don't think he's a great off the dribble shooter.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

He is not.

[Dave Dufour]

And how many catch and shoot opportunities is he gonna get to kind of bolster that 3 point percentage? It's less about the percentage than it is the quality of like the shots. Like I actually think developing an off the dribble three, maybe a step back is going to be big for him because just because he has the ball so much, I, I really do think about him a lot like Jokic and they don't play the same but, but they have similar roles in, in their offenses. And one of the things with Jokic is he is such a knockdown three point shooter, end of shot clock when he's left open, you know, if the defense sags off at all, he has to make him pay for it. And that stuff is going to have downstream benefits for the guys that play next to Jalen Johnson. If he is more of just a threat to take the open ones, look out because all of a sudden everybody else is going to be more.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Absolutely. All right, that's gonna do it. We made it to number 26. We're gonna get the next couple weeks. We're gonna go through all 30. Let us know how we did in the comments, tell us who, who we messed up on.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

Give a little recap. What do we got?

[Dave Dufour]

We got. Okay, we'll. We'll go the 30 to 26. We have Jalen Duran at 30, 29, Denny Abdia 28, Evan Mobley 27, Jamal Murray 26. Jalen Johnson. Looking ahead. 25 is going to be controversial anyway. That's going to do it for the show, folks.

[Andrew Schlect]

Donkey 16. Can we just say it? Can we just say it? Comparing Jalen Johnson to Yokich is like comparing Grady Dick to Rudy Gobert. That's not fair. Donkey 16. That's not fair. Donkey 16.

[Dave Dufour]

Rim protector like Rudy Gobert. I would maybe make the comparison.

[Esperaheni Zena Keda]

I'll say real block highlight reel.

[Dave Dufour]

That's going to do it for the show. For Esperahenny, Zena Keda and Andrew Schlect, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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[Dave Dufour]

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