NBA Trade Awards | Slam N Jam

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – "NBA Trade Awards | Slam N Jam"

Date: February 7, 2026
Hosts: Andrew Schlecht & Fred Katz

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Overview

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily's "Saturday Slam n’ Jam," hosted by Andrew Schlecht and Fred Katz, dives deep into the aftermath of the NBA trade deadline, offering their signature take on the biggest trades, under-the-radar moves, and the ripple effects on teams' futures. Instead of trivia and Clippers Week (postponed to next week), the pair hands out their annual "NBA Trade Awards," dissecting the motivations behind maneuvers and highlighting which transactions might prove most consequential—or questionable—as the season progresses.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thunder's Sneaky Draft Rights Trade: Cap Sheet Chess

• [02:15–09:05]
  The show starts with Schlecht asking Katz to explain the Thunder's mysterious acquisition of the draft rights to Balsa Koprivica—someone who likely won’t ever play in the NBA.
  • Key Insight: The Thunder are anticipating “second apron” limitations in the new CBA, where teams above a certain tax threshold can't use cash or aggregate contracts in trades. Having recent international draft rights in their asset pool gives them a legal trade "touch point" when other means are unavailable.
  • Notable Quote:
    “Sometimes the best way to tell what's going on with a team is by studying their cap sheet. Not sometimes. Most of the time.” — Fred Katz, [07:34]
  • Signals Thunder are preparing for becoming an expensive, second apron team—and intend to retain core pieces despite cap constraints.

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2. Major Trade Awards

a. Pau Gasol Award: Trade That Makes a Team a Contender

• [09:05–14:18]
  • Fred Katz's Pick: Avica Zubac to the Indiana Pacers
    • Indiana, fresh off a Finals appearance, plugs their big man hole early, landing a high-level defensive anchor. Katz is conflicted: Zubac fits, but the price (multiple picks) is steep.
    • “He’s a very good defensive center with an unstoppable hook shot... Stylistically, I think he’s probably a superior player to Myles Turner.” — Fred Katz, [11:20]
  • Andrew Schlecht's Pick: Nikola Vučević to the Boston Celtics
    • Bolsters Celtics’ big man depth for a wide-open East.
    • “It gives them a nice big to have right now. So I really like that deal for the Celtics.” — Andrew Schlecht, [13:50]

b. PJ Washington Award: Sneaky Trade That Could Pay Off

• [14:07–19:44]
  • Fred Katz: Ayo Dosunmu to the Timberwolves
    • Praises Minnesota for adding a two-way bench guard without overpaying, addressing their need for extra ball-handling without sacrificing too much.
    • “He’s been a sneaky sixth man of the year candidate... He’s gonna fit into the identity of that team incredibly well.” — Fred Katz, [15:38]
  • Andrew Schlecht: Kristaps Porzingis to the Warriors
    • Low price for a potential game-changing big, if healthy.

c. Favorite Tiny/Sicko Trade ("Bolsa Bolstering" Award)

• [20:12–23:24, 51:41–56:08]
  • Fred Katz: Vít Krejčí to Portland
    • Classic deep-cut move praised by NBA “sickos.” He's cheap, under contract multiple years, and genuinely useful.
    • “He is on an unbelievably cheap contract... this will help Portland next year and the year after that.” — Fred Katz, [54:09]

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3. Gordon Hayward Award: Praised Player Who May Be Washed

• [23:31–27:23]
  • Fred Katz: Nikola Vučević, Boston Celtics
    • Questions how a long-time key player in mediocre environments translates to a title chase.
    • “I just worry when a dude has played in so many basketball games that don’t matter... it's a good way to develop bad habits.” — Fred Katz, [24:10]
  • Andrew Schlecht: Anthony Davis, Washington Wizards
    • Doubts Davis can be a franchise foundation due to injury concerns, and worries about looming extension decisions.
    • “If he's hurt the same amount...it just means he's going to slow down whatever you're trying to do.” — Andrew Schlecht, [28:53]

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4. Honorable Mention: Cap Management Nerdery

• [34:16–37:33]
  • Both hosts marvel at the lengths teams went to get under the luxury tax, with Phoenix and Philadelphia (due to a fortunate Paul George suspension) as prime examples.
  • “Paul George testing positive for a banned substance cost the Wizards money.” — Fred Katz, [37:03]

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5. Jakob Poeltl Award: The ‘Future Regret’ Risk

• [37:53–43:16]
  • Both Hosts: Indiana’s Zubac deal
    • They agree trading a potential top-6 pick for Zubac could haunt the Pacers, especially if lottery luck doesn’t bounce their way.
    • “If this winds up like five or six, there are good players waiting at five or six. That's too much.” — Andrew Schlecht, [39:30]
    • “It's a lot. You nailed it on the pick analysis.” — Fred Katz, [41:09]

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6. Mike Conley Award: High-Impact, “Right Vets” Deals

• [44:35–47:49]
  • Andrew Schlecht: Kobe White to the Charlotte Hornets
    • Positive vibes, “bucket getter” off the bench, and a homecoming for the North Carolina fan base.
  • Fred Katz: Initially picks Porzingis but, persuaded by Schlecht, pivots to Kobe White as well.

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7. Simone Fontecchio Award: Sickos’ Favorite, Actually Minor

• [51:41–56:08]
  • Both: Vít Krejčí to Portland
    • Quintessential deep-cut beloved by hardcore fans, but barely moves the leaguewide needle.

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8. Kyle Kuzma Award: The Most Confusing Trade

• [56:08–66:24]
  • Andrew Schlecht: James Harden for Darius Garland (Cleveland/Clippers)
    • Baffled by Cleveland’s logic, especially given playoff history and playing styles.
    • “I am endlessly confused by Cleveland.” — Andrew Schlecht, [57:25]
  • Fred Katz: De’Andre Hunter to the Kings
    • Puzzled by Sacramento dumping Schroeder for more money and a player who’ll exacerbate their long-term cap issues despite being a bottom-tier team.
    • “What's so crazy is to get this bad while also getting more expensive.” — Fred Katz, [65:24]

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9. Bogdanović & Burks Award: Most Overrated Trade

• [67:22–71:31]
  • Fred Katz: Jonathan Kuminga finally gets dealt
    • Years of trade hype ends in a blah deal. Neither side gets clarity or upside.
  • Andrew Schlecht: Jaren Jackson Jr. to Utah (with Jazz’s muddled direction)
    • Questions if the move pulls them out of the tank or just strands them in NBA purgatory.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Fred Katz (on Thunder’s cap foreshadowing):
  “The Thunder are signaling the possibility that too expensive does not mean going into the second apron and too inflexible does not mean going into the second apron.” — [06:20]

• Andrew Schlecht (on Zubac-Pacers risk):
  “That is too high of a price to pay, especially when you have another unprotected pick coming their way as well.” — [39:30]

• Fred Katz (on cap acrobatics):
  “Paul George testing positive for a banned substance cost the Wizards money.” — [37:03]

• Fred Katz (on the Kings' baffling moves):
  “What's so crazy is to get this bad while also getting more expensive.” — [65:24]

• Andrew Schlecht (on Garland-for-Harden):
  “I am endlessly confused by Cleveland.” — [57:25]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Thunder’s draft rights trade breakdown: [02:15–09:05]
• Pau Gasol Award picks: [09:05–14:18]
• PJ Washington Award picks: [14:07–19:44]
• Favorite small/sicko trades: [20:12–23:24], [51:41–56:08]
• Gordon Hayward Award winners: [23:31–27:23]
• Cap/tax nerd stuff: [34:16–37:33]
• Jakob Poeltl Award (“questionable cost”): [37:53–43:16]
• Mike Conley Award (“right vet”): [44:35–47:49]
• Simone Fontecchio Award (“sickos only”): [51:41–56:08]
• Kyle Kuzma Award (most confusing): [56:08–66:24]
• Bogdanović and Burks Award (most overrated): [67:22–71:31]

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the show, Andrew and Fred blend deep CBA insight, real on-court analysis, and lively banter to provide a comprehensive post-deadline breakdown. They don’t just label winners and losers but unpack the thinking behind even the most obscure trades, highlight the precarious balance between present need and future flexibility, and keep the conversation lively (and at times, self-deprecatingly “sicko”).

If you want to know why the Pacers’ season hinges on lotto balls, why the Thunder might be two years ahead on team-building, how Sacramento managed to spend more to get worse, or why NBA sickos are obsessed with Vít Krejčí, this is your go-to episode. And don’t miss next week’s “Clippers Week”—it promises fresh drama after a wild deadline.

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Transcript

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[Fred Katz]

Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was.

[Fred Katz]

That hologram trading card.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.

[Fred Katz]

Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

One of a kind.

[Fred Katz]

Ebay had it.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you.

[Fred Katz]

Get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.

[Mark Bittman]

Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay. Things people love.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

This episode is brought to you by Pura Wellness. Doesn't have to be perfect, just personal and how your space makes you feel. Pura's well being collection is thoughtfully crafted to support energy, focus, relaxation and sleep through scent. From soft florals to grounding woods, each fragrance is designed to create small, feelgood moments throughout your day. Discover what your space [e-mail] moods. Welcome to the Saturday slam and jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily, brought to you by Amazon Prime. On today's show, we're doing trade awards with Fred Katz. We are not doing trivia again. Alex Spears is again not showing up to the podcast. But listen, here's what we have to be grateful for is that it was supposed to be Clippers week last week. And I promise you that show would be a lot different than the one that's going to happen next week with LA Murray. So listen, it's a blessing in disguise, but today, Fred Katz and I are going to recap the trade deadline and hand out some awards. Some fun awards. Fred, how's it going? This is a. This is a crazy day for. For people working in and around the NBA.

[Fred Katz]

It is a crazy day. There is a lot going on. There's a lot to follow. There's a lot to do. No question. Crazy for you, too. Crazy for all of us.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. I want you to reveal what I think is one of the more Fred Katz things to write about. This is one of, like, the dorkiest things that you could write about.

[Fred Katz]

Oh, thank you for putting those two things back to back.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Is the. The Thunder making a trade for a player that will probably never play for them. A name that I frankly just can't even pronounce. It is, I think. And I even put this out in a tweet that I think it's an acquisition to use for a trade in the future. But like you've revealed in something you read at the Athletic, why they would want this to trade in the future. So could you lay this out for our listeners?

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. So the Thunder made a trade on Wednesday that I have to imagine nobody saw, nobody knew about.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Nobody even cared about, including probably even the guy who got traded, whose first name, I believe is pronounced Balsa.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

The only reason I really remember that is because I said, look at the balls it took today. Make that trade.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, it is. It's got to be Balsa. Like salsa, but with a B.

[Fred Katz]

Right, Right. It's. It's gotta be Balsa. That's. It's gotta be.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It has to be.

[Fred Katz]

It has to be. Couldn't possibly be anything else. What's it gonna have a silent L? There's no way. It's gotta be Balsa. So they traded for Balsa. Balsa's not in the NBA. What's Balsa's last name?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I just told you. I don't know how to pronounce it. Cabrica, Vicky C. I don't know. This is bad. I feel like.

[Fred Katz]

You know what? You know what? Just like, it's got to be Balsa. It's got to not be Kabri K. It's gotta not be Kabrika V. Why.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Did you even ask me to say it? I. I intro it saying, I don't.

[Fred Katz]

Know how to pronounce it because honestly, I thought it. I thought it would be fun. I thought it'd be fun to hear you try.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

You were right.

[Fred Katz]

And we all try.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Correct.

[Fred Katz]

The Thunder. The Thunder traded for. For this guy. He was drafted in the second round of the 2021 NBA Draft. And I'm looking through trades and just catching up on stuff, and I'm like, what is. What is this deal? Because all it was was the Thunder sending cash to Utah, and Utah sending the draft rights to this 2021 second round pick to Oklahoma City. And I'm like, what the heck is this deal? And you know, Oklahoma City, they don't do anything random. So I'm like, what is happening here? And it starts to hit me. I'm like, okay, the Thunder gave up cash and they got back a random draft rights guy who's probably not coming to the NBA.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Why are they doing that? Why would they want. I feel like I sound like the Brian Windhorse meme right now.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Why, why, why? Why are they doing that?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

They do that.

[Fred Katz]

Why would they want a draft rights guy who's probably never coming to the NBA? And the answer could only be. Just like Bolsa. Could only be pronounced Bolsa. The answer could only be that the Thunder are preparing for the possibility of going into the second apron next season.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Because what happens when you go into the second apron, you're no longer allowed to use cash and deals. So that means if you want to make a trade and you want to slide into like a smaller trade and you don't want to use a draft pick and you don't want to use a player because remember, you can't trade those, like fake, fake second rounders anymore under these real deals, under these new, new rules. If the Thunder want to make that, get into that deal. And remember, they can't aggregate if they're over the second apron. They want to get into something. Don't want to use a player, don't want to use a draft pick. They can't use cash as a touching point in a trade anymore because they're not allowed to. If they're over the second apron, what can they use? Draft rights players. Both draft rights players, specifically, who were in the last five to nine. Like, if it's a three team trade, five drafts. If it's a two team trade, nine drafts. And so it signals that they're at least preparing for the possibility to go into the second apron next year, which will be a big deal for them.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Which signals something about their future. Signals something about how they plan to handle their finances moving forward. And the reality is the Thunder didn't have any. I'm not sure if I think they had no draft rights guys at all before they made this trade. They certainly had no draft rights guys they would be allowed to use as touching points. Because you have a draft rights guy.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I think they did, but I think they were too far back.

[Fred Katz]

Right. If you have a draft rights guy from, you know, 1462, then it's too far back. You're not allowed to use them as a touching point.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

So I, I know they didn't have any, like, actual touching point draft rights guys. And so that, I mean, that. Look, the title, the, the. Everybody is waiting for that team to get too expensive. Right. That's what everybody keeps saying. When is that team going to get too expensive? And the Thunder are signaling the possibility that too expensive does not mean going into the second apron and too inflexible does not mean going into the second apron. I think we can take that away from that move. Sometimes the best way to tell what's going on with a team is by studying their cap sheet. Not sometimes. Most of the time.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

That's how you can get a lot of stories. Just study their cap sheet. Be like, okay, well, this has to be. This. This has to be pronounced Balsa, you know?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, well, and. And so a lot of people with the Thunder in particular, it's like, are they going to be able to keep Artenstein? Are they going to let Lou Dort go? They have all these team options on these guys. Kenner Trilliums is a team option. You know, what are they going to do with all these guys? Well, the answer could be that they bring them back, because I think part of it is, like, they've. They've drafted guys that can come in and take the place of some of these players. But, you know, they don't know anything about Thomas Sorber yet because he tore his ACL before the season. And so I do think that that could have possibly been a guy to kind of help if Hartenstein was going to move on, but in my opinion, he's too important for them.

[Fred Katz]

And, and look, I'm. I'm not sitting here and, and reporting, oh, the Thunder definitely going into the second apron.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

But what I. It's. It'. It's just too soon to know. There's too much that could happen between now and the end of the season that could affect that decision moving forward.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

But what I am reporting is that the Thunder are preparing for the possibility of it, which means that it is something that is very much on the table. And this is, I think, the first time that we've received definitive information. You know, people could speculate, people could ask around, people could know, but this is the first time they've, like, made moves specifically preparing for that. Like, that moment is like, okay, that moment's right around the corner, whether it's next season or the season after. Like, it is right around the corner.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. All right, let's get into our trade awards, Fred. The first trade award is the Pau Gasol Award, the trade that makes a team a true contender. Who did you have for the Pau Gasol Award?

[Fred Katz]

Okay. I struggled with this because I didn't think there was any Palisol equivalent trade.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's. There's. There's nothing that's making people freak out as much as people freaked out about the power trade.

[Fred Katz]

So. So I deviated a Little bit.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Uhhuh.

[Fred Katz]

I went with a trade that I'm not even sure if I like.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

But it's the Avita Zubots trade.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay. Okay. This. I have this for a different category, but go on.

[Fred Katz]

Okay. I. I might have it twice.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

We. It is one that I would love to talk about because it is one, if you watched our live stream, that I freaked out about a little bit. Not. Not in the way that I did about Pau Gasol, but in a different way. But you. You go ahead and explain your. Your part on this one.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah, I mean, look, Indiana was going to have flexibility this summer, and they were going to have the ability to go out and get a center to replace Miles Turner a year after he left for Milwaukee. And they did their work early. And the reality is that they viewed this season as a gap year. We all knew they viewed it as a gap year. We all called it a gap year. On the outside, when Tyrese Halliburton is back and healthy next year and the rest of the roster is presumably healthier than it's been so far this season, then they will be a much better team than they were this year. This team is still only months away from taking the supposedly unbeatable Thunder to seven games in the NBA Finals and having genuinely. Having genuinely one of the best vibes, playoff runs that didn't end in a title in NBA history.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

No question.

[Fred Katz]

Like just one of the. One of the best stories of any. Of any playoff run ever. Whether they want a title or not, this team still has talent. This team still could be good. And the east is super weak. So who's to say that they couldn't just shoot back next year? And Zubots is a very good player. He's a very good player. He's going to fit them well. He's an excellent defensive center. He with him. He hasn't been as good defensively this year as he was last year. Doesn't really affect the way that I think of him defensively. He's going to be playing for another really awesome coach in Indiana and Rick Carlisle. He protects the brim. He's a great pick and roll defender. He's got an like, unbelievable, just unstoppable hook shot. Just one of my favorite hook shots in the NBA with either hand. It just feels like he's the new Robin Lopez and just never misses a hook shot. Yeah, yeah, he's. He's. He's a different type of player than Miles Turner. Stylistically. I think he's probably a superior player to Miles Turner and You put him with wings who can guard like Siakam and like Neesmith and like Nemhard, and you have Halliburton at the top and you've got a bench that can run and nobody toppins healthy next year and so on and so forth. Like, you've got a roster and you've got a team that literally just went to the finals. So maybe it helps turn them around next year. That being said, the picks were a lot. It was. They gave up stuff. They gave stuff up. So I'm conflicted because I see those picks and I see the value of those picks, and I'm like, that's a lot. That's a lot.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It's a lot. It is a lot. And I will stop talking about it because I have it for a different award in which.

[Fred Katz]

So. So do I. We can talk about the a lot part next.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I will talk. I will talk a lot about it. Mine is vuch to the Celtics. I just think they needed a big. They had. They had a lot of guys at guard that could play and just getting a big. Because I think the east is super wide open. I think. I feel. It feels really unclear to me who I think is going to win now. I think the Knicks should win the east, and I thought that last year as well. But weird stuff happened in the playoffs, and I do think that if weird stuff is going to happen in the playoffs, I could see the Celtics winning with or without Tatum. I could see them sneaking in and getting a big. That can stretch the floor and rebound for them. I think is really good. He doesn't solve every problem for them as a big certainly. But I do think he makes them a much more dangerous team now that they have a little bit of big depth. I think that was a really nice move for them. It doesn't affect them moving forward, but it gives them a nice big to have right now. So I really like that deal for the Celtics.

[Fred Katz]

Okay. I'm not going to respond because I might have that for a later deal.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

For a later award.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay. What about the PJ Washington award? This goes to a trade that most people did not like, but we think could really pay off in the postseason.

[Fred Katz]

All right. I'll tell you what. This is the one I struggle with the most.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And the reason why is not because it's particularly difficult. It's because I've become extremely old and washed up and I don't go on social media anymore. I don't sit there scrolling Twitter.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I don't really have any idea what anyone has said about any of these trades.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

So I have no idea. So one person told me, just like one random friend who's kind of a casual NBA fan and I'm basing my entire opinion on this. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe everyone loves this deal and I'm being ridiculous.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay, I'll let you know.

[Fred Katz]

One person was like that. All the Wolves did was get IO Dasuma. So I'm, I'm basing it on the one friend who said that. Yeah, but I love that deal for Minnesota.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I, I think it's a very good deal for them. They needed a player just like him that's like a two way player that can handle the ball a little bit. I mean, he, he's the Nikhil Alexander Walker replacement and he is already doing a pretty good Nikhil impression in Chicago. So I do, I think it's, I mean, it makes a ton of sense.

[Fred Katz]

He's, he's been a sneaky six man of the year candidate. He's been fabulous off the bench for them. He's creating his own shot. He's shooting better than ever. He guards. He's gonna fit into the identity of that team incredibly well. And one of the things that I thought they recognized in their team, and maybe I give them too much credit when I say recognized in their team because there were all the reports of them, you know, lusting after Giannis. But of course, like, if you have a chance at Giannis, why wouldn't you lust after Giannis? Who could blame them for that? But one of the things that I kind of liked was that like, yeah, they, they need a point guard, they need an extra ball handler who can gather them and calm them down, but they don't always need an extra point guard. Yeah, like, it's not like every single moment of the game, it's like, it's not like a Houston situation where Houston is like, man, this offense is really good, but the only reason this offense is really good is because they are getting just a ton of offensive rebounds and they have a dude named Kevin Durant. And the offense is really good, but the offense is clunky and it's slow and they miss too many shots and they take too few threes and yada yada, like they need a point guard to organize them. There are times where the Wolves look really good offensively because Ant is doing a great job getting him set up and just creating his own shot and creating for others because Julius Randle is having a very underrated. He's struggled the last couple of weeks. But he's having a really underrated like off the dribble facilitating season. His turnovers are lower than they've ever been. He's been really good as a one on one player. He's been really good as a facilitator as a one on one player, which has been huge for them. Divincenzo's done a pretty good job when being given the ball. Like they, what they needed was an extra element and an extra guy who could be an organizing force in those moments when they get chaotic. I think desuma is going to give them that without taking anything off the table. Just a good player. He might get a, he might get a nice payday this summer. I mean he's unrestricted, free agent, good player, didn't give up a ton for him, no first round picks. I'm, I'm totally into that deal for them and you know, I, I, I have no idea on if this is happening, but people seem to be implying that maybe they just end up resigning Mike Conley anyway. So. Yeah, that's a Jedi mind trick for you. I, I love that deal for them, but I don't know. Is that, tell me, is that, is that, has that been criticized, that deal?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I don't think it was like P.J. washington was where people were just like, you know, whenever the Mavs acquired him, I was like, oh, that's kind of gross.

[Fred Katz]

All right, so what's your answer? What's your.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh, well, I, I did want to say I, I think it was good that they just see the Rob Dillingham pick as just like a sunk cost at this point. Like, I think like some, some teams just hold on to like mistakes like that for too long and so I do think that's good to move on from him. I've got poor Zingis to the warriors and who knows if he's going to play. He may not play, but I do think if he does play that that could really help the warriors, like even get into the playoffs. I know this is probably a team that's in the play in right now, but they could become the eighth seed. And not that they're going to have like some magical run or anything, but like a team that has Draymond Green and Chris Epps Porzingis as your front line is a lot more dangerous than what they were before. It is funny that they now have the centers for the Boston Celtics championship team a few years ago, but I like that, I think that's a trade that it feels like that's all you get for Jonathan Kaminga. Like, we went through all of this. We've talked about Jonathan Kamingo maybe more than anybody being traded in the last, like, 18 months other than Giannis, and it's like, man, that's all you get is Chris Apps Porzingis. But if he can find a way to be healthy, which is certainly a massive question mark, I think he really could help the warriors down the stretch.

[Fred Katz]

I agree with your analysis. I agree fully. He's still a really good player. We'll talk about him in a little bit, too. I hope we don't have too much overlap here.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

You know, there's only so many trades. I don't. I don't think we're going to be talking about, like, the. The Gabe Vincent for Luke Canard trade. There's a lot of small trades. I think there's 28 total trades, but there's, like, a ton of really small deals that were made and only a few, like, impactful trades.

[Fred Katz]

You know what we should. Can I create an award right now?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, the.

[Fred Katz]

The Bolsa Bolstering Award for your favorite. Your favorite small trade that no one's talking about.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Ooh, your favorite tiny.

[Fred Katz]

But you can answer with the Bolsa trade. So, so what's. What you say is.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Does the V. Cretchy one count as a boss of trade?

[Fred Katz]

Oh, don't say. Don't say. Don't say v. Critchy yet. Don't say v. Crutch yet.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay, okay.

[Fred Katz]

Don't say that one. I want to know what your favorite small one is. Pause.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh, I do like the Knicks getting off of Gershon Yabuzelle.

[Fred Katz]

That's a good one.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I think that they negotiated.

[Fred Katz]

They negotiated the player option off of his deal.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I think. I think that's. I mean, it's. It's really. It's really good for the Knicks because it looked like it could be pretty disastrous for them. They give up no picks.

[Fred Katz]

But how strange is that, that they negotiated the player option out of his deal?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I mean, tell me more about that, Fred.

[Fred Katz]

So they. They. They got him to. I shouldn't say they got him to decline the player option because that makes it sound like they. They, like, you know, waterboarded him into doing it. But they. He declined the player option to get traded and is then going to figure out in the summer he had a $5.8 million player option, which is what made him unattractive as a trade candidate and why the Knicks were going to have to attach Second round picks in order to get off of him. You know, he, he's, he's, he doesn't play. He's completely out of the rotation and has really struggled in the rare moments when he has played this year. And he's the last guy on the bench. And they negotiated the, I, they didn't negotiate the player option out of the contract, but he, he declined the player option early, which is so unusual. I can't think of a situation. I'm not saying it's never happened before. There was a situation. I, I, I was trying to brainstorm, but this was someone in the league. Like, has this happened before? And one person mentioned to me something I didn't remember, which I'm sure, I'm sure you remember. If anyone remembers, you remember that Ryan Anderson once negotiated a partial guarantee to a lower number to facilitate a trade. Yeah, but I don't know which trade. I don't remember which trade that was.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Huh. I don't, I don't remember specifically what it was, but that it is very unusual for a, a player to like, it's, it's like donating to a charity, but that charity is like a billion dollar corporation. You know, it's like, what are you doing? What's, what's happening here?

[Fred Katz]

Right. To be able to get out.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, yeah. He must be miserable. Is really what it comes down to.

[Fred Katz]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, the question is, would you be happier? Yeah, of course. The question is, would you be happier giving up $5.8 million?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I mean, and if the answer is yes.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, if the answer is yes, then.

[Fred Katz]

You'Re certainly not thrilled where you are.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Right.

[Fred Katz]

So.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. Brutal. The Gordon Hayward Award, which is a.

[Fred Katz]

Trade that, the Gordon Hay Award, most.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Everybody praises it, but it will be revealed that the player is completely washed.

[Fred Katz]

Okay. I say this with extreme amounts of reservation. I'm worried about Nicola V in Boston.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh, you are. Okay, Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I sound. Now, I say this with extreme amounts of reservation.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I just worry when a dude has played in so many basketball games that don't matter. This is not knock on Billy Donovan, who I think is a good coach. But when a dude has just been a situation that has not been a competitive environment.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

For such a long time when he's not a defender, when he hasn't really played with winning players. I just worry when that guy gets thrust into the middle of a race like this. It's a good way to develop bad habits when that happens.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I don't really see him doing a lot of winning stuff. This year, even though he has the skill set and all that kind of stuff. Now, the reason I say it with such reservation is because, quite frankly, the Celtics as an organization in general, from their front office to their players, to Joe Missoula, have earned the right to be like, screw you, Fred. We know what we're doing here.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

And if their response was, screw you, we know what we're doing here, I would probably be like, yes, screw me. Yep. 100%. Like, I was the one who was like, how is this team gonna manufacture a healthy offense this year? And they're, you know, one of the best.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

They're amazing in the NBA.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Joe Missoula is able to uncover stuff that none of us can find. He is a master at this stuff. And so I'm very questionable about it based on what I see, but Joe Missoula has made me doubt myself to such an incredible degree this year because of the magic that organization has pulled off and the. That organization identifies talent. They identify people, they identify character, and they make things work like that. Like, I, I just. I, I, I'm hedging it because I'm. I'm worried that I'm wrong. Even though everything that I feel like I know is telling me that this is the answer.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I, I can get. I can get there. Although I picked the exact opposite award for this, because I, I just. I like the. I like the skill set that he has in Boston. And if they can get him to do all the. Really, what you're saying is, like, you don't know that he'll do all the little things to win.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. 100%. And they need. They look, they. They obviously needed a big. Garza had struggled a little bit lately.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And Keita has been an incredible find. But, you know, this is an organization now that's not just, like, a cute little upstart. Like.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

Like, this team. This team is not just, like, exceeding expectations. They could win the East. They could win the east even if Jayson Tatum doesn't come back because it's the East. So they could do it. They're top three in the east right now. They have a chance, and they needed to go out and get a big. And they did it while listening their tax bill. They did it while giving up a guy in Anthony Simons who's a little bit redundant with other stuff that they have. So it's not like it's some sort of huge risk that's going to blow up in their face, because I don't think they had you know, plans on playing Anthony Simons in huge playoff minutes down the line anyway.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And so it's not like you give up something that's. That's super important to your. Your individual makeup. So it's not like I hate the deal or anything like that, but I just felt like it was the most fitting for this category.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I think that makes sense. Mine is Anthony Davis, and this doesn't fit, like, the. The Gordon Hayward storyline at all just because, like, Gordon Hayward was an expiring contract. There was just a lot there. But I just don't like this for Washington at all. I just don't think it's a good deal. And if he's getting there and expecting to have, like, contract extension negotiations, I would be so worried about that. He's already due, like, 120 million after this year for the next two years. If you're extending him off of that, I'm. I'm just. This is not the direction that I thought the Wizards would go. And if he is hurt the same amount that he's been for the Mavericks, it just means, like, he's going to slow down whatever you're trying to do. And the fact that the Mavs didn't get that much back for him should say a lot. Like, a lot of people, like, well, they didn't have to give up much to get him there. There's a reason for that. There's a big reason for that. And so, like, I really do worry about that team as they start to hit the accelerator a little bit on this young, upstart team. I just don't know that a deal like that on your books is going to be helpful to, like, the development of the team and the franchise, like, heading toward the right direction. It just kind of feels like more of the same from the Wizards when it kind of looked like, you know, with Will Dawkins in place, that they were going to be like, a. A team that was going to build slowly and try to do it the quote unquote, right way. But I feel like they hit the accelerator in. In my opinion, in all the wrong ways.

[Fred Katz]

We have. We have disagreement.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh, good.

[Fred Katz]

I kind of like the Anthony Davis deal for them, and I kind of liked it for Dallas, too. I mean, I. Okay, I. The Davis deal for Dallas is a reminder of how little they got back for Luka Doncic, but that's not the fault of the people who are running the front office right now. That's the fault of Nico Harrison, who's not there anymore.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I actually like that they did it just to like, okay, we're, we know this was a mistake. We don't need to have them on our books. Like, I, I like the fact that they did the trade for Dallas and.

[Fred Katz]

I like, and, and I liked what they got back. Like they, they prioritized the right stuff. They prioritized financial flexibility optionality and getting as many picks as they could, which isn't a lot of picks. I mean, it's a couple of bad first rounders and three second rounders, sure. But in this market for expensive guys with serious health issues, that's something. Yeah, I, I kind of like it for Washington because Washington's books, Washington's books are so clean moving forward because none of their young guys have gotten paid. Now, I do agree with your sentiment that if they just turn around and they get to the summer and Anthony Davis is extension. When Anthony Davis is extension eligible and they just pay him whatever he's asking for, then I agree with you.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

But I don't know that they're going to do that. I don't know if they're not going to do that.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I hope they don't, I think, but they have.

[Fred Katz]

This has been an organization that's been pretty principled with its contracts. It's been like, this is what we believe. The current front office, the Michael Winger Will Dawkins front office has been, has been, has held like it's built a reputation of like, this is what we believe, you know, this is what we're willing to pay. Come to us when you get it. Like that's how they negotiate extensions. That's how they end up with like Corey Kispert on a team friendly extension. For example. They've negotiated pretty solid extensions before and so I'm not going to write them off as like, oh, they're just going to pay Anthony Davis because I don't know that they will. Now that might create an awkward situation.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I would expect it would. I think on one side, I'll tell.

[Fred Katz]

You what, you know what the market inefficiency is in the NBA? No, not, not giving a crap about awkward situations.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That's the market inefficiency.

[Fred Katz]

Totally.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

Everyone cares about, oh, you got to give them the money. It's just going to be an awkward situation. Yeah, it's only awkward if you feel awkward.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Who cares?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

You know, hey, they don't care.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

If you're right and they don't care, then I don't mind, I don't mind the deal. Like if they're okay with writing out the rest of his deal and figuring it out along the way, I'm totally fine with that. Like, I just. I just kind of had the assumption that they'll work out an extension in the summer. And I don't. I don't know that I'd like Anthony Davis on anything that even approaches reasonable because I just don't know that he's going to play enough for you. And eventually, like, there will be guys that need to be paid.

[Fred Katz]

Yes, eventually. Eventually there will be. I don't know if the Wizards did this trade just to be like, oh, Anthony Davis is now going to be on the Wizards for five years. Like, I don't think that's why the Wizards did this trade. I think the Wizards did this trade because they were like, you know what? Anthony Davis is one of these really expensive guys who's, you know, not highly valued on the trade market. But one of the differences with Anthony Davis compared to, say, John Morant is, you know, John Morant's not highly valued for reasons that maybe you wouldn't want around a young, impressionable team. Anthony Davis has always been an exemplary teammate. He's won a title. He's. He's been a guy who's well respected and well liked, who has a good work ethic. Like, it's, you know, he's. He's. He's well respected in the league. And I can tell you, I know for sure, like, part of the reason the Wizards, the Wizards were like, we want Alex Sar around Anthony Davis every day. Like, we want Alex Sar going to work and seeing Anthony Davis every single day. That's what we want. Also, like, if you're going to trade for Trey Young, you kind of have to go. Even if you're just a team who's just like, let's see if we can get the seven seed. Like, you kind of have to prepare for having Trae Young, which means, like, you want your back. Line of Rim protector Anthony Davis, rim protector Alex Saar, defender Bilal Koulibaly, you know, Keyshawn George still fouls too much, but, you know, defensive potential and size and obviously, he's vastly improved offensively this year. Like, there's stuff there for them to be competitive. So as long as they don't dig their heels into bad contracts, then I'm okay with it, because they really didn't give up very much at all. Yeah, but if you compound it by giving out a bad deal, I feel the same way about the Trey Young deal. If you compound it by giving out a Bad deal. That's when it's bad. But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna kill them for giving out the bad deal when I don't know that they're gonna give out the bad deal. They may very well not.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, if they count two bad deals. I, I don't even, I don't even know what to say. Quick detour. Who is your favorite team that gunner to the Tax today? Which one just got your juices flowing about a team getting under the tax? There are a lot of teams that try to do that.

[Fred Katz]

Easily Phoenix.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

Easily Phoenix. By far Phoenix. You know why? Because I just don't really understand the trade for Milwaukee. Yeah, like, like, I guess. I guess Milwaukee just really likes Usman Jang.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I guess. Who's got passed around on, on Thursday.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah, it was a ooze. Ooze of who's getting news.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Poor use just got passed around. Yeah. I still think I, I feel bad for Sixers fans because they, and they got, they got. It's not like they didn't get anything back. They got a first round pick back. They got three second round picks back. But they basically used Jared McCain to get under the tax and gave him to the Thunder. And it's a really nice swing for the Thunder who have a surplus of picks who are probably not going to be able to use that. What will be the 23rd through 25th pick anyways? They weren't going to probably use that just because they have other more valuable picks. But yeah, I, I know that there were some frustrated Philly fans because they used Jared McCain to go into the Tax and then didn't use. I mean a lot of people thought, okay, if they get this pick then maybe they will turn it into something else later that helps them. And they did not.

[Fred Katz]

So I mean, dude, the really incredible part of Philly getting under the tax is that Philly shouldn't have even been so barely over the tax. But because Paul George got suspended for 25 games for a banned substance. I know it dropped their, their. They dropped them from like 7 million over the tax to like 1.3 million over the tax. So they were able to get under. Which by the way needs to be. I've, I've thought about this since before the Paul George thing. That, that, that needs, that needs to be changed. That needs to be changed in the league. I understand that if a player gets suspended, you're not paying the salary so that it doesn't count against your books, but it should still count against your cap sheet. Yeah, it should still count against your hit and it should still count towards the tax. Because think about it like this. We were just talking about the Wizards. They're not a tax paying team. That means they're revenue sharing team. Right. Paul George testing positive for a banned substance cost the Wizards money.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Because now they're not getting paid out.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

True.

[Fred Katz]

In revenue sharing.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It would have been like. It would have been hard for them to get under the tax because they did end up trading Eric Gordon, which could have been. You could call that one the trade to get them under the tax if you wanted to, and then say that they just traded Jared McCain because they wanted to trade Jared McCain. But yeah, you're right. It would have been a lot more difficult for them to actually get under the tax if PG did. Didn't get caught.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. It just seems. It just seems too lucky.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Gives. Gives. Gives teams the an incentive to just lace their players meals with PEDs. Like, would you like some anabolic steroids on your chicken?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That's diabolical. That is diabolical. The Yaka Pertle Award, the team that gave up a first round pick for a player. And everyone will question that all of next season. This is where I have a Vita Zubots and it's not me too. I don't think Zubots is a bad player. He's a very good player. A player that I think could even potentially make an all star team in the Eastern Conference because it's the Eastern Conference. But man, this, this could all also be moot because maybe the Pacers tank out the season. They get lucky and they keep their pick and they get a top three pick plus Zubots and they go into next season with Halliburton back and they look amazing like this. This could all turn out so well for the Pacers. I do want to acknowledge that piece of it. But the fact that now it's a coin flip, that you even keep this pick is like too much stress for the state of Indiana. For me, that's too much. Because if they do not keep this pick, if this winds up like five or six, there's a. There are good players waiting at five or six. And if that goes to the Clippers and they had this entirely like horrific season after going to the NBA Finals, you have this awful season and you give up that pick to the Clippers because you want. You needed a starting center. I think that is too high of a price to pay, especially when you have another unprotected pick coming their way as well. So if they give up like the fifth pick and then another unprotected pick. That is way too much. That is way too much to give. And I don't understand it. I understand trying to get Zubots. I don't understand giving up that much to get him. But this. This, again, this. This draft lottery will be so intriguing, and this is, like, another reason why. I think it was already going to be a really fun draft lottery. This is, like, another reason why there's going to be some executives sweating bullets in that room because of this trade. And if it ends up going to the Clippers, we will talk about it so much. It's going to be talked about all of next season whenever we watch whoever it is on the Clippers, lighten it up. And sure, I think the Pacers will be fine. I don't think this is going to, like, set them back a ton because they'll have Zubots and they'll have their team together. But, man, this pick, in my opinion, was going to be the thing that could help take the Pacers even to a higher level than what Zubots could. I think you can find a starting center. I think you can find one. I don't think you have to give up potentially, like, the fifth, sixth, or seventh pick in the draft. I don't think you have to do that. It blows my mind that they did that. I did not think they would put the 26 pick on the table.

[Fred Katz]

Could you. Could you imagine if the Clippers happen to have given up number one to okc, but.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

But they get five.

[Fred Katz]

They get five anyway, so they're good. Or they give up number six to OKC and they look out and get five. Yeah. Remember I said earlier when I named the Zubots trade for the Pau Gasoline.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Said we were going to talk about him later.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. This is why I'm conflicted. It's a lot. It's a lot to give up.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It's a lot.

[Fred Katz]

You. You nailed it on the pick analysis stays this year in Indianapolis. If it is 1 through 4, and if it is 10 through 30, and if it's 5 through 9, it goes to the Clippers.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Do you remember, like, a sandwich, like, protection? Like that. I don't remember seeing us saying.

[Fred Katz]

There definitely have been. I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I. I will say Jake Fisher broke the news about that pick. Protection. And I texted Jake Fisher. I was like, what a. What a fun break.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, that is a really. Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Like, I was really jealous. That's the type of news I love, I love like, like that's what I love to break like that. That's fun. I would have, I don't know the answer to this. Yeah, I would love to know the process of specifically how those protections were negotiated.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

What was said and then what came back and then what was said? Where'd they land? How'd they land on those? It's so quirky and specific.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It is, it's really strange. It's all, it's almost like, okay, we really want to tank, but like maybe we don't. I don't really, I don't know what the thought process is there either because you could imagine like the, the Pacers with Zubots and if they're like completely healthy and they're just like playing good basketball, you could see them, you know, making a little run as all these other teams are tanking and maybe that's, maybe it's accounting for that. I don't know.

[Fred Katz]

Here's, here's what I think. I think, I think the Clippers said, we want a chance at a really good pick.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And the Pacer said, well, it can't be too good, at least not this year because we're too bad. So the Pacer said, we want a top four protected. This is totally me guessing, by the way. Sure. Pacer said, we want a top four, top four protected. And the Clippers said, well, we don't want to do that because what happens if you're good with Zubots and you end up with the 12th pick? We don't want the 12th pick. We want the chance for this to be a really high pick. The Pace said, okay, so we'll 10 through 30 protected also. Yeah, that makes way more sense for your guys benefit.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, that makes way more sense.

[Fred Katz]

And then you'll get non protected one way far out if that's.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, yeah. No, your theory is way better.

[Fred Katz]

Yes, that's my guess.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I think that, yeah, that theory makes way more sense than what I was just saying. They also get Benedict Mather and they're going to have to. He's a restricted free agent. I guess you get to get a really good look at him. And to me like the picks are really like what you want, but they get to, to get a good look at Benedict Matheran and figure out what's going on. I don't know. The Clipper stuff weirds me out. I'm weirded out by what the heck happened there. And I can't wait for Clippers week next week to talk to Law about It because they went from like the team that's like, are they going to. Are they going to make the 8th seed? Are they going to push the Thunder to like, what. What's that? What is what's going to happen there? They now they're probably going to give the Thunder like the 9th pick or something. Like. This is just such a strange situation.

[Fred Katz]

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. What? What a change. By the way. The Clippers caught up in a strange situation.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Unbelievable.

[Fred Katz]

The Clippers were strange situations. Grow on trees.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh my gosh. And they. They literally grow the trees.

[Fred Katz]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It grows on.

[Fred Katz]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Goodness. Shout out. Shout out to Pablo. Okay. The Mike Conley Award. A trade for a veteran that will end up turning the team around. This team has already been turned around, in my opinion. But I just think bringing Kobe White to the Charlotte Hornets is such a fun move. I just think it's going to. The vibes are already awesome there. I think it's going to increase the vibes in Charlotte. He's a guy who's. He's a North Carolina guy. He's like the high school, like leading score in the history of high school basketball in North Carolina. He's also played at North Carolina in college and now he's back. I just think it's. It's a fun story there. But then I just think his. I think the. The Hornets are already super fun and he. Him coming off the bench is even better. So I just. I love that. I don't know that it's necessarily fits this one in particular, but I just wanted a space to express how much I like Kobe White for the Hornets.

[Fred Katz]

It's a great answer. The Hornets are on like a year and a half stretch now of just every time they make a move, I look at it and I go. And I think about it, I go, oh, that was really smart.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Every time. Even if it doesn't work out, there's intelligence, logic, and an overall plan to everything they do.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Totally.

[Fred Katz]

They've been chipping away at just like just smart thing after smart thing. Part of the reason why I like the deal as much as I did the Kobe White deal. And I agree with everything you said. Part of the reason why I liked it as much as I did is because they only gave up three second round picks, which is like, whatever. But for them, three second round picks is not even that big of a deal because they've spent the last year and a half, two years just accumulating second rounders.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yep.

[Fred Katz]

So they have a lot of second rounders. To deal in a trade just like this. Kobe White's a good player. Colin Sexton's having a good year for them. Yeah, Kobe White's. But Kobe White's a good player. I'm curious to see how he's going to play next to some of their other ball handlers, but also like, if they decide to let him run their bench unit. Like, that is one hell of a guy running the bench unit. Like, that's. He is going to be able to go off. They. They just. They have a lot of bucket getters.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, they do.

[Fred Katz]

They have so many bucket getters it is crazy. And they just upgraded, I think at the bucket getting position. Again, they're good. They're really fun to watch. I mean, they're crazy fun to watch and they're a good one. My, My answer for this one was the Kristaps Porzingis deal.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

Except I changed the language in the question. You said it's for a trade for a veteran that will end up helping turn a team around. And I changed Will to could.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That is so lame to do, though. That is so lame.

[Fred Katz]

That's.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That's. I'm not even going to let you do that because, like, that's not within the spirit of what this is about.

[Fred Katz]

I just. If Porzingis. People, it's just availability. He's still so good. He's still like, he's still so good. Yeah, he was really good when he.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Played him the PJ Washington award. Okay. That's right.

[Fred Katz]

You're right. You know what the answer is? Kobe White. We'll go with a. Go with a 25 year old for the better.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, I know, I know. It does not fit. It does not fit. He.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah, we can wedge the 25 year old into this vet.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. I was also wrong about this one. We're both.

[Fred Katz]

But like Porzingis for poor Zingis. Like, I'm not saying that there's a. I'm not living in a delusional world where I feel like Porzingis just plays the rest of the season and is good to go. But really what matters is like let's say Golden State finishes in eighth. Okay. And. Or finishes in. Let's say they finish in seventh or something like that.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

And Porzingis ends up healthy in mid April. Like, and he's just healthy for two playoff series.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

I mean, Porzingis takes deeper threes than any big man in the league. Him and Brook Lopez. Him and Steph running pick and rolls 35ft out is going to be unhinged. Yeah, it's going to be unstoppable.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It could be awesome.

[Fred Katz]

And he's still a good defensive player and a good rim protector and an absolute abject winner who has played massive games, has balled out in the finals. When he came back from that injury in the finals a couple of years ago, the only thing with him is, you know, the, the, the pot pots, the condition that he's dealing with and, and the health, and that is a very big thing. But if he's just healthy at the right time, then all of a sudden, like, that might just end up being worth it.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

All right, Fred, let's take a break before we get to our final awards. We have the Simone Fontecchio award. We have the Bogdanovich and Burks award. We have the Kyle Kuzma award. Just get ready. We'll be right back.

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[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

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[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

And we're back. After that quick break, it's time to continue our trade awards. We now move to the Simone Fontechio Award, the award that NBA. This is the trade that NBA sickos obsess over, but it really was not going to move the needle at all. And I hate to say this because I am one of the NBA sickos that has really loved this deal, but I'm going to put Keon Ellis here, who I think is awesome and I think will make an impact. But if I was going to, like, pick a trade that the NBA sickos are gushing over and that most, like, casual people would be like, who is that? Who are you talking about? To me, it just kind of fits the Fontechio vibe. I don't want it to be true because I really do like Keon Ellis, but I do think that there's a chance that it's not going to move the needle as much as everybody thinks it is.

[Fred Katz]

Here's why. Here's why. Kean Ellis is a bad pick, okay? Keanu went to a team that's, that's good and, like, trying to win.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

True.

[Fred Katz]

And like, Keon Ellis might have a moment or two in a playoff series and whatever else. I hate to say this because I'm one of the sickos who actually loves this trade, okay? But I hate myself for loving this trade, okay? I have dealt with incredible amounts of self loathing for days because I love the vite critchy trade so much for Portland.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That is probably more. Okay, I now feel good about taking Keone Ellis off and making mine crutchy as well, because that is, that fits way more the Fontechio vibe. You were right. You were right about that one. The V. Crutchy to Portland is, is almost exactly the Simone Fontecchio trade to a T100%.

[Fred Katz]

And it's, it's, it's. I, I. Last year. I love this one. Last year when we did this podcast, I still remember, I said, for this one, I said the Jake Laravia to the Kings trade. And I said, I said a philosophy that, that still holds true today, which is everyone's freaking out about, like, about, about the, the, the Grizzlies not having Jake Laravia. Well, guess what Every champion in NBA history has had in common. They haven't had Jake Laravia. And I will say that every NBA champion in league history has also not had vite Crutchy. So I, I loved it. I loved it for Portland. I loved it for Portland. Yeah, he's been so good this year. He is on an unbelievably cheap contract and he's under contract for multiple more years. So it's not like, oh, it has that. The difference between this and like the Laravia one was Laravia was just like a free agent after last year and then signs with the Lakers like this, this will help Portland next year and the year after that when he's still under contract and making like $3 million and he's a legit rotation player who can shoot the heck out of the ball. You know who else can shoot the heck out of the ball? Simone Fontechio. It, it is, I just, it, it's that deal. I'm, I'm too excited. I hate myself for it. I hate myself for it. But you know, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I, I love it and hate and hate myself.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, no, I mean it is, it, it fits that because Fintechia, when he was traded to this is referencing when some money Fontechi was traded to Detroit. And if you listen to like any podcast that had like anybody that was just loved to get into the nitty gritty, they just talked about how much they loved it and it was just really funny to me. And without a doubt, beat Crutchy is, is, is definitely that one. Like, I, I think there's really no other real option. I feel bad now for even saying Kean Ellis's name there. Okay, next one. The Kyle Kuzma award. This award goes to the most confusing trade of the trade deadline. And I have the James Harden for Darius Garland trade. And I'm confused from the side of Cleveland. I, I don't, I don't understand why they would want James Harden. I really don't. I can understand why you'd want to split up the Darius Garland Donovan Mitchell backcourt. I get that. Everybody gets that. There's nobody questioning why you'd want to do that. We've seen it not hit the ceiling that we would hope, but I just am confused why James Harden is the solution to that problem. We can talk about his playoff failures all you want. You can talk about how he is going to get killed as a pick and roll defender. We can talk about a ton of things. His attitude, the fact that he's been traded so many times. I mean, I, I don't, I don't get it. I don't get why this would be your backs against the wall, you need to win in the playoffs, and then you turn to James Harden. I just do not get it. I am. I am endlessly confused by that. I. I like it for the Clippers, even though I don't know if Garland's going to be healthy at any point in the rest of his career for an extended period of time. But it's a younger player who has made the All Star team twice. I love the bet that they made there, but I am endlessly confused about Cleveland.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah, I'm with you. I am fascinated to see the Harden fit. Now. I think the answer is there are a lot of people who are really concerned about Darius Garland's medicals.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And if Cleveland wants to win this year, if they're like, the east is really, really good or the east is really, really winnable, I should say this year, and they want to win this year, I think you can make an argument, if only based on health, because Garland's got the toe stuff and whatever else. I think you can make the argument that James Harden just because of availability. Even if you think that, I mean, you can make the argument that Harden's better than Garland, but I think even if you think that Garland is 5, 10% better than Harden just because of availability, I think you can make the argument that this makes them better today.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Makes them better in April, May, June. But that being said, come on. Like, I just, I just don't see the fit. I don't get it. Cleveland is prided itself on how fast it plays, on its cutting, on its off ball movement. And, and now they're bringing in a guy who's gonna play slows, gonna put the ball. You, you gotta have to revamp the way you play.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Like, he uses so much, has used so many possessions. Like, go, go look it up on NBA.com the amount of possessions that Harden has used this season is unbelievable. Like, how is. I mean, I don't think he's going to use as many in Cleveland, but James Harden teams are James Harden teams.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird one. It's not my answer to this question.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay, what's your answer?

[Fred Katz]

Wait, we're doing the Kuzma Award, right?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, Kuzma Award.

[Fred Katz]

My answer is DeAndre Hunter.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh, yeah, that's a good one.

[Fred Katz]

Because at least, like Cleveland, I get the, like, you know, like I said, I get the justification if, if you're worried about health reasons.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

It does make you better this year. If you just have gotten to the place where you're like, Garland's not going to be healthy. So in that sense, it probably makes you better this year. And if you think you can win the east this year, I get going for it. It's not, it's not the work of a madman. Whereas dumping the Dennis Schroeder contract so you can take on more money doesn't. I just don't. I just don't get it. They. They used Keon Ellis. Their only cheap, you know, air quotes, young guy, he's in his mid-20s. They used Keone Ellis instead of. As a way to get some stuff.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

As a way to get off of Schroeder, who they signed last year to a three year deal when the entire league's reaction was, whoa, three years for Schroeder.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

And they said it was. He's now a part of their core when they signed him.

[Fred Katz]

That's going to be regrettable.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

They use Kean Ellis to get off of Schroeder, then also to bring in DeAndre Hunter. Now, here's the thing that people aren't really talking about. People talk about how the Kings are bad. They have the worst record in the league right now. People talk about how the Kings don't fit. People talk about how the Kings have gone after veterans who, you know, are talented in a vacuum but just couldn't complement each other any worse. I don't think enough people are talking about the price of the Kings next year. Oh, they, they have serious luxury tax concerns.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And just added money with DeAndre Hunter making like $24 million.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

They might have to get to a place now. Now they, they might be sitting there thinking, like, you know what, we'll be able to offload Sabonus in the summer. Maybe they came closer on Sabonus stuff than anybody on the outside knows.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

They came closer on Levine stuff than anybody on the outside knows. Levine has a player option for next year. Everybody assumes he's going to pick up. It's like 48 million. Maybe they'll be able to say that's going to be expiring money. We'll be able to get out from under that. But why are you making the battle harder for yourself? They have the players they have under contract for next year. They have them under contract for like 180 something million dollars. On top of the fact. On top of the fact luxury tax projection is like 200 million. Like on top of the fact that right now they project to have the first pick, which is great. Of course you want the first pick. But guess what comes with having the first pick? The most expensive rookie salary you can possibly add to your deal. And now rookie scale salaries are expensive. They changed it a few years ago. These are expensive deals. These are eight figure deals that you're going to be adding to your, to your books. You're becoming really expensive for no reason. So what's going to happen? Like Demar DeRozan is under contract for 25 million next year, but only 10 million is guaranteed. So are you going to have to waive DeMar DeRozan and then are you just going to have to stretch DeMar DeRozan potentially?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Oh my gosh.

[Fred Katz]

Like, like. And just add a $3 million cap hit, $3.3 million cap hit onto your books for three consecutive seasons? Not really for any reason. Because that's basically the delta between what you're going to pay DeAndre Hunter versus what you would have been paying Schroeder.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It's probably exactly what's going to happen.

[Fred Katz]

And now you've created that. For what reason? For what? For what reason? You have the worst record in the league. They also gave up a second round pick in the deal. So they, so they had Keanu.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Nuts to me. That's the part that's nuts to me.

[Fred Katz]

They had Keone Ellis, who, who people liked. They didn't play him. They created an environment over multiple coaches which by the way, for what it's worth, it's like when Mike Brown and Doug Christie don't play Keone Ellis. It does make me think, like, why have multiple coaches not played Keone Ellis? Even though I like Kean Ellis, I watch him play. I'm like, good spot up shooter, plays hard defensively, gambles a little bit too much for my liking on defense, but good player and also like, you know, in that environment, who can develop. Yeah, but they didn't play Kean Ellis, hurt his value, made it very easy for anybody negotiating with them for Kean Ellis to be able to say whenever they asked for, you know, they were asking for first round pick, reportedly for Keon Ellis. But if I'm Team X and I'm calling about Keon Ellis and the Kings say to me, we want a first round pick for Keon, I'd say, well, if you like him so much, why don't you play him? And then there'd be no good answer to that. Because the only answer is so much.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Why don't you marry him, huh?

[Fred Katz]

The only good answer throws your head coach under the bus and then all of a sudden you can't. You can't do that. That's just unprofessional. You can do it. I'm sure it happens, but it's unprofessional. And so, And. And it signals that the organization is not, you know, acting as a cohesive unit. And so it just takes that argument away from you. And then they end up using Keon Ellis to attach to Schroeder so they can take on more money in salary dump.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Which I'm just. Oh, man. I'm just waiting. Like, are they really gonna end up having to, like, stretch to Rosen? Like, like, what is. What is happening? How did they get this, like, like the thing that I. I get how they got this bad, you know, I'm not. I'm not saying you understand the moves.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It took to get here.

[Fred Katz]

Right. I, like, I. I get that. That ridiculous organizations will do ridiculous things.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

What's so crazy is to get this bad while also getting more expensive.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

That's what's so crazy.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It's a double whammy.

[Fred Katz]

More expensive. Over this time when they've weaned themselves off the bean team, like, they've gotten more expense. Like, they're going to have real money concerns next year.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Like, they're gonna have, like, not even tax concerns. They might have apron concerns.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Mm. What? Yeah, that's nuts.

[Fred Katz]

They're gonna have to. They're. In order to not have those concerns, they're gonna have to find ways to dump salary. And for what it's worth, dumping salary might take attaching more assets.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

So either way, you're out stuff.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

And then they just. What's funny is that the Cavs came to the conclusion we made a really big mistake with DeAndre Hunter, and we're still able to get probably something. They got something positive back for it, which is just wild to me. It's just wild to me.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. I also think, you know, while we. While we talk about the Schroeder contract, nobody wants long term money nowadays, but yeah, like, I think Schroeder will help them from. From a non core perspective, that's like a good basketball addition as an extra ball handler. Like Schroeder, you know, he gets traded six times a year, but everybody likes him when they get him mid year, except for Golden State.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, it's. There's. There's a ticking clock when it comes to him, but he's good for a little while. And they got him for a little while.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. I don't mind it from their perspective. Okay. Last One is the Bogdanovich and Burks Award. If you're a Knicks fan, you remember this. Everybody was so excited for these two coming to New York, and it did not work out at all. The most overrated trade at the deadline. Fred, what do you have?

[Fred Katz]

I deviated a little bit for this on, like, overrated trade just because I don't really know how the trades are rated now.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Sure.

[Fred Katz]

And so instead of saying trade that's been overrated, I'm just going to say it was overrated for the year and a half before we knew what it was.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Okay.

[Fred Katz]

Which is Jonathan Kamingka finally getting traded.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And it's just like. I know I said I like, I like the Porzingis acquisition for them. Like, it makes sense, but it's also like, like, like after all the. The. The fuss about what's going to happen with Kaminga.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Just totally unexciting and unenthralling and so blah. Such a blah way for it to end.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. Without a doubt. And, like, I don't even know what he is for Atlanta. Like, it's hard for me to envision what Kaminga is supposed to be for them.

[Fred Katz]

I think it's a talent play.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah. Yeah, I. I guess I get it. From my perspective, it just. It also feels like Atlanta, and maybe all of Atlanta stuff, was more of everybody's basketball imaginations going wild about what they could be because it never really became what everybody thought it would be in the off season. So maybe this is all just a moot point, but it just. It is just kind of wild that they went from where we thought they could be all the way to, like, they're just making talent grabs at, you know, the trade deadline with a team that's going nowhere. That's just. They're in an interesting spot. They kind of need, you know, some. They're another team at the lottery to watch where their future could change drastically then. Yeah, I don't. I don't love it. I don't love it for them either. I really don't. I don't love it for either team. Which probably fits the Bogdanovich and Burke's trade, too. I don't think, in the end anybody loved it. Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Detroit. Detroit ended up getting Quentin Grimes and then giving him away, too, in the Bug. Donovich, Burks one.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah, that's true.

[Fred Katz]

So it was like, even the, The. The chance of, like, the guy who you could have had, like, you didn't.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Even make an effect and get there. Yeah. For this one, I think I have Jaren Jackson here just because I'm. I. And maybe you can help me with this. I just don't really get how this pushes Utah to, like, a really awesome place. I feel like this kind of pushes Utah to the middle. And at this point, are they going to sit Triple J and try to tank to get a good pick? Are they going to play him and potentially give that pick to the Thunder, which is top eight protected? I don't know what they're going to do. My guess is that they'll tank and that they'll sit him the rest of the season, at least a good portion. But even when they're whole, is. Is Jaren their best player? Who's their best player? I'm just. I just don't really quite get, like, the direction that the Jazz are going. I know maybe they're just tired of losing and it's like, all right, we just need to go get Jaren. I don't think they, like, overpaid for him or anything. I've actually. They didn't give up any of their premium players or any of the guys that they thought would have, like, super high ceiling. So I like that they didn't give up a crazy amount of draft picks, but I'm still a little bit confused as to what, like, the ultimate direction of Utah is and if it is contention. I think they're putting themselves in a position where it's kind of hard to get to contention from where they're at. So I'm just a little bit confused by their roster and. And who they think will. Will push them toward contention, if that makes sense.

[Fred Katz]

It does. Can I just say, if you don't win an Oscar for what you just did, sitting there, seeming to genuinely ponder whether the Jazz will tank.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I. I've done that on multiple occasions since they. Since they made the trade.

[Fred Katz]

Looking like you're really thinking about it.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I am. I am.

[Fred Katz]

If this be. Will try to make Honey.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Youy just think it's a foregone conclusion. Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. They've been. They've been doing it for. For months. They're not gonna stop now. They've got. They've got a top. Top eight pick that they owe to Oklahoma City.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Top eight, Right? Top eight or top nine?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Top eight protected. It's ninth. That goes to okc. Yeah, right.

[Fred Katz]

They owe to Oklahoma City, and they can't. They can't lose that.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

They cannot. Right now. They sit at 6 in the reverse standings. And the problem with it is there are so many teams behind them right now. That are trying to tank as well. And because they have in. In the tanking world, the disadvantage of having an awesome coach, it makes it kind of complex because behind them they have Memphis, Milwaukee. I don't know that Chicago can quote, unquote, tank, but, like, they're not going to be any good. Atlanta is not going to be any good. They're going to have to. They're gonna have to really try to tank. And they also got, like, Vince Williams, I think could help them. They kind of got, like, some tryhards from Memphis in this trade, too. So they're gonna have to, like, they're gonna have to really shut guys down.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. Wow. That would be really out of character for the Jazz. You're right. You're right. They're gonna have to. They're gonna have to just start randomly resting guys. Like, they're going to have to just start randomly resting guys. Strategically.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

They would never.

[Fred Katz]

Against teams that maybe they have a chance to beat so that they would, you know. No way.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Utah would never.

[Fred Katz]

They might have to randomly sit marketing. They might have to end market unbelievable consecutive game streak.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

They might have to strategically rest Yusuf Nurkic.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Which they've done this season as well. Yeah. I mean, you're right.

[Fred Katz]

Like.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

But I just. I just think it.

[Fred Katz]

They went. They started SVI M. Kyluk for 24 consecutive games, accidentally beat two teams close to them in the tank standings.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Uhhuh.

[Fred Katz]

And then DNP CD'd Silek for one.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Game.

[Fred Katz]

Because they were playing another team close to them in the tank standings. And then started him again the next game.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And then said they just wanted to get a look at other guys for that game. They. They are doing it with Sphi Makayluk. My point is not that Svi Mikhailuk is so incredible that he can't. That. That it's a. That's an issue for the game. My point is that they're even. They're so into the tanking minutiae. They're doing it with Sphima Kylook. I promise. I don't think they have any moral issues with this. And. And I know they insisted they weren't going to do it again this year, but they've been doing it again this year, and they're going to do it again this year.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

They're. They are doing it because I do think that they wanted to. To tank in. In a. I don't even know how you'd even say it, but I think they just wanted to naturally tank where it's just like we're going to take. Take away your tools so that you can't. You can't do it anymore. But they're still finding ways with guys like Svi who credit to see he's.

[Fred Katz]

Trying hard, but they take the tank. It's a natural tank. It's like Wayne Newton's face is a natural face.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

This. This is. Stop.

[Fred Katz]

Can I say that?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know. But this tank race is going to get nasty. Like, it's going to get really gross. There are a lot of teams, including Indiana, who has the third best odds right now. It's going to get really gross. There's going to be a lot of tanking throughout the rest of this season and, like, somebody's going to accidentally make the play in, I think because there are a lot of teams that are positioned to lose a lot of games down the stretch of this season. And Utah. Utah could be in the driver's seat there.

[Fred Katz]

I'm going to laugh so hard if a team tanks out of the plan.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

It's. It's going to be a weird. I think it's going to be a very weird end of the season, and justifiably so. Like, this is just kind of how the NBA set up. This is a really, really good draft. And if you just give yourself the chance to be in the lottery, it could be anybody. Anybody could jump up.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. Look at the teams that currently have picks that could be affected in the lottery. There is New Orleans right now has the second worst record in the league, but their pick would go to Atlanta. Atlanta, your pick or Milwaukee's pick, whichever is better, is going to go to Atlanta.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

New Orleans is. Could end up going to Milwaukee. There's the Indiana situation that we discussed earlier. There is the Utah situation where Utah's pick, if it falls ninth or later, is going to go to Oklahoma City.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yep.

[Fred Katz]

There is the Milwaukee situation, where Milwaukee is going to try really, really hard to tank and they're just going to hope that whatever the worst of them in Atlanta is is still a really good pick. And for what it's worth, now that they've held onto Giannis, there's drama with like, oh, if they get into the top four, what do the Bucks do with that pick? Not what should they do with that pick, but what will they do with that pick? There is. There is the Clippers pick, which is going to Oklahoma City. And then it's like, damn, does the team with currently has the best record in the league? And won the title last year, getting to the top four, get number one. Atlanta's pick, I was about to say, in the lottery right now is going.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

To San Antonio Atlantic because Atlanta could lose a lot of games down the stretch, and San Antonio has gotten so lucky in the past that, you know, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, you're right. There's. There's a lot. There's a lot here. Yeah, there's a lot here.

[Fred Katz]

There is. There is a lot. There is a lot. There's so much. And then even in the back half of the first round, it's like, oh, it's littered. Half, Half. Half of the teams that are picking aren't picking with their own pick.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I think it's more than half. It's crazy. Like, yeah, yeah. Another team, Memphis gets Orlando's pick. I was a little surprised to see Orlando not do anything but just get under the tax because that team needs to do something. I would guess that maybe they do something big in the off season, but they need a change. That team is in a weird spot.

[Fred Katz]

They're in a really weird spot. They might do something big in the off season because they're another team that's going to have real financial concerns with a team that's 25 and 24 right now.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And, you know, they. They're going to get really expensive. They paid Paolo, they paid Franz. They brought in Desmond Bain, who makes a lot of money. They paid. They paid Suggs. And right now, this core. I mean, this core isn't playing together. So you can keep saying that, but it's been a while now, and they still haven't played together, and the shooting is still not good enough, and there's just something off with them that I.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

I saw them in OKC the other night, and I know that was probably their worst game of the season, but, yeah, it was completely disorganized on both ends. That's. That's a team that should, like. You should be in the mud with them the whole game. And they. They just have, like. That's their identity. It's like they just grind you to a halt. The defense is, like, just nasty. But it was not. It was not. They couldn't even get into the paint against the Thunder. And, like, a lot of teams can't, but they're. They had just. There was just no identity on either end, which is very concerning. Like, at least, like, have a defensive identity. They didn't. Couldn't even do that the other night against an OKC team that didn't have, you know, several players in the lineup. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what that Orlando team does because that's another team that we all got ahead of ourselves with our basketball imaginations, I think. And, you know, thought that this could be a dark horse team in the east, and they are certainly not that there. It would be. It would be shocking if they won around or even won a few games in the first round at this point. Yeah. They're in a weird spot. Fred, anything that you'd like to promote before we get out of here?

[Fred Katz]

I. On Thursday morning, I had. When is this running? Saturday.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Saturday. It's called the Saturday Slamming Jam.

[Fred Katz]

Oh, really?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Is that what this is called?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That's what this is.

[Fred Katz]

Did I used to host this show? Guest host. I couldn't possibly take that from spares. Yes. On Thursday, I had a column about the Anthony Davis trade and just kind of how it's closure for everything that happened with Luka Doncic.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

On Friday, a story about what path every team is on. What. What. What path is everybody on? The Wizards are on two timeline turnpikes.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And the. The Kings are on the highway to hell. And then we're gonna figure out, we're gonna run through the whole thing and talk about kind of each path that every team is on after the deadline.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

That's awesome. Go check it out. Also, subscribe to the Cats and Shoot podcast. I'm a listener. I'm a subscriber. It's a good podcast, even if you're not. It's a. It's kind of a Knick centric podcast, but if you're just an NBA fan, it's enjoyable. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Saturday Slamming Jam. Next week we'll be back with the much anticipated Clippers Week with Alex. Alex will be back. We'll have trivia back. It'll all feel normal again. I'm very excited and I just think it was the. The right thing to do to just wait for Clippers Week, because I think there was. There's a lot to unpack that could even be the full hour, honestly. It's just we let Alex do the week that was and then we just do clippers for like 45 minutes, I think could be the way we go. So I hope everybody has a great rest of your weekend. Enjoy the basketball and we will talk to you guys again next Saturday.

[Fred Katz]

Here's how to stay alive longer so.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

You can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata. Stay alive and switch now at boost mobile.

[Fred Katz]

After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds.

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Big news Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work. Wait, we're going on tour? Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade. Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road. No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.

[Fred Katz]

Are you a groupie on this tour?

[Podcast Host (likely from The Athletic)]

We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour. Oh, you're definitely a groupie. Introducing store to door Switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at. Delivery available for select devices purchased@boost mobile.com.

[Fred Katz]

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