Loading summary
Transcript115 lines
- [00:01]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com rates 23 that's LinkedIn.com rates 23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:03]
Discover
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get discovered. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card.
- [01:31]
Fred Katz
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card today and start earning up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases. And that daily cash can even grow automatically when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Card. What are you waiting for? Visit Apple Co Card Calculator today to see how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners Subject to eligibility savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Member FDIC terms and more@applecard.com welcome to the Saturday Slammin Jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show, my good buddy Fred Katz joins to hand out some trade awards in just a what was an insane week of trades here with the NBA. Fred, how was your last 24 to 72 hours?
- [02:39]
Mike Convey
Sleepless. Exhausting. Still trying to get over that Charlotte, Oklahoma City trade where they just traded a 2029 second rounder for a 2030 second rounder.
- [02:56]
Fred Katz
Mike Convey. I mean, come on.
- [02:57]
Mike Convey
Yeah, unquestionably my favorite trade of the trade deadline. It was, it was reminiscent of the KZ Akpala Pick Pick Protection Removal.
- [03:10]
Fred Katz
That's right. That's right.
- [03:12]
Mike Convey
Years ago that all of us remember so well. It was.
- [03:17]
Fred Katz
It's. It's one of those trades that you. You're. You, like, you know that there are maybe one or two people in your life that you can talk to that trait about. Like, and. And the vast majority of people, like, just have no interest whatsoever.
- [03:30]
Mike Convey
But here's the thing. Two things. Number one, there are one or two people in your life where you can talk about it, but the one or two people in your life you can talk about it with, you can talk about it for, like, seven hours. And what's amazing is none of the people that you can talk about it with are people listening to this podcast. And that's how we decided to start the show. So.
- [03:51]
Fred Katz
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. This is going well, Fred. We're going to do trade awards today. And so I have several different categories that we're going to go over to kind of break down the trade deadline. And the first one is the PAL Gasol Award, the trade that made a team a true contender. And I don't know if there's really another answer to this other than Luka Doncic to the Lakers, because it's Luka Doncic to. To the Lakers. And we've talked about this on many podcasts. I've heard. I'm sure that you have heard about it if you're listening to this show, but I think that there's. There's nothing else out there, in my opinion. Yes.
- [04:31]
Mike Convey
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's Luca Doncic to the Lakers for a really small package. It's. It's a star going to the Lakers for a really small package. Same thing as Pau Gasol. And you know what? The PAL trade, in retrospect, ended up being a lot better for Memphis than we realized, because there was a completely forgotten guy who was in that deal who nobody thought anything of at the time of the trade. It happened to be Pagasol's brother, Mark, who ended up being a Defensive Player of the Year and an awesome player and a deserving hall of Famer, in my opinion. So, you know, maybe Max Christie is going to make the hall of Fame, or maybe that Luca trade wasn't as good for the Mavs as it was for the Lakers. But to be clear, I don't think the Lakers are contenders right now. The difference between that, the two trades is like, the pow trade made the Lakers title contenders. With the pow trade, I think the Lakers need a little Bit more. And I think the Lakers can be contenders maybe next year. I think they need an off season to kind of add to the roster, to bring in a little more perimeter defense. I need to see Mark Williams in a winning environment before I. Yeah, for sure. He's going to be an okay backline defender if he's. If he defends the rim the way he did in Charlotte, then. Which he might not. It's totally possible he might not.
- [05:48]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
Yeah.
- [05:48]
Mike Convey
But if he does, then, you know, then. Then the Lakers defense will be in a different situation. So we'll see. But it's. It's definitely Luca trade. It's not the DeAndre Hunter move for Cleveland, even though I like that move.
- [06:01]
Fred Katz
Yeah, no, I mean, this is. This is the one. Where would you. So where would you put the Lakers in the west at this point? As far as contenders in the Western Conference?
- [06:14]
Mike Convey
Obviously behind Oklahoma City. I think I put them behind Oklahoma City. It's tough.
- [06:25]
Fred Katz
Would you put them behind Denver? I think that I probably have Denver just due to continuity and we've seen those guys do it.
- [06:32]
Mike Convey
Yeah, I think I would have Denver also just because I'm generally going to pick Jokic, even though, like, Denver. Look, Denver has had its moments where it's looked really not good this year too. And yeah, if you can figure out a way, like, if you have LeBron and Luca on the court at all times, like, you're probably gonna eviscerate the non Jokic minutes. Like you're gonna imagine if you can always have either LeBron or Luca or maybe both in the game when.
- [07:01]
Fred Katz
Yoko, we should be able to do that.
- [07:04]
Mike Convey
Yes, you're gonna destroy the non Yic minutes. So, like, maybe the Lakers go from having lost to Denver a few times to being an okay matchup with Denver now because of this trade. Maybe I'm wrong. May. Maybe. Maybe they are right up there. I. I think Memphis, even though they play a style that people wonder about because it's a lot of isolation and cuts, and I think there are a lot of people in the league who are skeptical about how it might work in the postseason. I think Memphis is really good. I think they got a chance. I think Houston's got a chance also. They just play ridiculously physical defense. And I know we're all counting out Dallas because they made this ridiculous trade where they gave away Luka Doncic, but, like, they're still really good if they're healthy. Like, they're still deep, they still have talent, they're going to defend if you have lively and Anthony Davis protecting the back end. Like, you are going to be really, really difficult to score on at the rim. It's going to be really difficult to create corner threes. Like, that team is still going to be really good. I think. I would think I'd consider them in that class, too. So maybe the Lakers are better than. I'm saying, I'm talking it through.
- [08:12]
Fred Katz
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of think I would put the Lakers at 3. I've been asking people this question because it's fascinating and terrifying. If you're one of these teams but only two out of these six teams are going to make the playoffs. Clippers, Mavs, Suns, Kings, warriors and spurs to make the playoffs, who would you, who would you put in there? Because I kind of like the, where the top six is right now. Okc, Memphis, Denver, Houston, Lakers, and then the Timberwolves. I just have a hard time believing the Timberwolves will not be in that mix. You know, there at the end of the season. You could consider them in this mix too, if you'd like. But like, out of those teams that I just listed, only two will make the playoffs. Like, who would you put, who would you put there today?
- [08:59]
Mike Convey
Well, I think Sacramento got worse, clearly losing De'Aaron Fox and making some of the deals that they made. And I'm going to say Sacramento falls out. I don't think Golden State is good enough, even with Jimmy Butler. And maybe we'll talk about Jimmy Butler. I think the hole for San Antonio is too large also, and I think Dallas is legitimately good. Like, Dallas will get in there and the Clippers defend every single night. That team is second in the league in points allowed for possession. They're not going to get less out of Kawhi Leonard in the rest of the season than they've gotten so far this year. Norm Powell is having a great year for them. I thought the Bogdanovich trade was good for them. Terence Mann is, is a nice player and they just extended him, but he has really struggled the last couple of months and I think the Bogdanovich trade is going to make them better. He's a really good movement shooter. Ty Lue is really good with movement shooters. I think he's going to be an extra creator in their bench unit as well. He's. He's a good addition for them. I think they got better and the Suns, I just don't really have faith in whatever is going on there at all. Like, they don't have rim protection, they don't have rebounding. They play discombobulated basketball. They don't communicate defensively. They, you know, Beal is now coming off the bench and so often looks lost. And we'll see how Kevin Durant responds to the fact that like the Suns just randomly started trying to trade him out of nowhere.
- [10:28]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [10:29]
Mike Convey
For Jimmy Butler when. Yeah, we still.
- [10:34]
Fred Katz
In what world is. Is that an okay trade? Like, why, why would you even consider that? I don't, I don't, I don't understand that at all.
- [10:43]
Mike Convey
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer at all. And you know, all these teams are calling about KD and then they announce they, they put out that 2:58, two minutes before the deadline. That, you know what? We're keeping Kevin Durant. That's it. We're keeping Kevin Durant. Yeah, that's right. At 2:59 we're giving the heads up, like, who knows how he is going to react to that. In on a team that I think is already not super tight behind the scenes. I don't think they're like, I don't think they're like at each other's throats, but they're not a super tight team to begin with and it comes through in the way they play. And I just, I don't have a lot of faith in what's going on there. After I was really high on the Suns coming into the year, I thought they were going to be a really good regular season team.
- [11:37]
Fred Katz
Yeah, they had a nice off season and now, I mean, they had to sell off Yusuf Nurkic basically and like that's all they did after spinning their wheels for days. It's just, it's weird.
- [11:49]
Mike Convey
I think they messed up the Nurkic trade too.
- [11:52]
Fred Katz
Okay, tell me.
- [11:54]
Mike Convey
All right, so they make this trade with Utah where they trade their 2031 unprotected, as Zach Low calls it, the hor crux. Right. It's a Harry Potter reference where Voldemort split his soul into a bunch of different pieces and left it in a bunch of different places. And they traded their 2031 first rounder, which was the only first rounder they had, for three crappy first round picks that are all. Yeah, heavily protected SL swaps.
- [12:21]
Fred Katz
Yeah, they.
- [12:23]
Mike Convey
They do that move after trading three second rounders and Josh Akogi for Nick Richards. If they did that move before trading a Kogi for Nick Richards and they just reversed the moves. Yeah, then they probably because they were already talking to Charlotte about Nurkic and they ended up Trading Charlotte to Nurkic and expirings who were like, yeah, just there because they're expirings. So they traded three seconds for Nick Richards. Then they traded one of the firsts to get off of Nurkic and bring back expirings. But if they had done it in reverse and they gotten the firsts first, then they could just attach one of the firsts to Nurkic, which maybe would be get. It would be enough to bring back an expiring and Nick Richards. And if it's not, maybe you throw in a second rounder or something like that and then not only are you keeping two second round picks that you had to give up or one second round pick maybe that you had to give up, you're also holding on to Joshua Kogi, who you signed to an $8.3 million contract before the season season with the purpose of trading him in a deal that you traded for Nick Richards. So now you can attach what's remaining, maybe another first round pick, maybe all the seconds, maybe some of the seconds, you can attach those to a Kogi and you can make another move for a player who makes less than $8.3 million. So I feel like they did it backwards. Yeah, I feel like they rushed to get Nick Richards. They were like, we cannot survive another second without Nick Richards. And if they just hadn't rushed to get Nick Richards, who has been fine but is a backup center, then they could have made out with more total. Like they could have traded a Kogi for something else if they wanted to.
- [14:09]
Fred Katz
Yeah, just. I mean, they are like there's been some more than like I was going to say like they're death by a thousand cuts, you know, kind of death for them. But there's been like some really big mistakes. And this, this is one of like the small mistakes that like really good franchises that do things, you know, and quote unquote the right way just don't do. Like they don't make moves like this. Like they don't. They don't make trades like this. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. Let's go on to our next one, which is the PJ Washington award, which goes to the trade that most people didn't. But this could possibly really pay off in the playoffs. Who you got?
- [14:50]
Mike Convey
Well, P.J. washington was like wallowing in Charlotte and we didn't know what kind of habits he would bring once he left Charlotte. Right. It was like, is he actually not a defender? Is he actually like a sometimes defender or is this just the circumstances around him. And it's really hard.
- [15:09]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [15:09]
Mike Convey
For somebody to shine when they're in a losing situation like that. Turns out he went there and he was, he was in a winning situation. He made out well. So I'm not 100 confident in this prediction. However, I do feel like all these signifiers are there and I'm going to say Mark Williams is the guy who best exemplifies this.
- [15:28]
Fred Katz
Okay.
- [15:29]
Mike Convey
The Lakers gave up a lot for Mark Williams. Like, I don't blame Charlotte at all for doing that trade. They got an unprotected, great trade for Charlotte. Yeah, they got an unprotected first, they got a swap. They got Dalton connect out of it, who could be a nice, a nice score moving forward. Like that was a good move for Charlotte. That was a really good move. When Mark Williams is struggles to stay healthy, his defensive effort is very questionable and he's extension eligible this summer. And you're going to have to pay him a decent amount of money in all likelihood. That being said, like, opponents are shooting 68% on dunks and layups when he's the closest defender this year. That's a really bad number. That is really bad. He is, according to the advanced numbers, one of the worst rim protectors in the NBA. He's also 7 2. He can jump out of the gym. He's got a 9 foot 9 standing reach. Literally. He stands under the basket and puts his hands over his head and his fingertips are one inch short of the rim. He has the physical tools. It's just not always there. But if you give him LeBron, and for what it's worth, I think J.J. redick is a pretty good ex's nose coach. They, they, they run nice stuff. Like, you give him LeBron, you give him J.J. redick, you give him smart basketball people, it might look totally different. You give him a competitive environment, like, it might look totally different. And you might be saying the same thing about him defensively that we were saying about PJ Washington defensively last year when PJ Washington was great during Dallas's playoff run. So I'm not just like looking at the defense in Charlotte and being like, oh, I'm out on Mark Williams. He's 23. People evolve depending on the circumstances around them. And maybe he won't. Maybe this is who he is independent of his situation. But I think it's very reasonable to believe that he can get much better there.
- [17:24]
Fred Katz
Yeah, I also had Mark Williams here. I also just think offensively it's going to be amazing. Like if you, you Want to have a lob threat and a athletic big man to pair with Luka Doncic, like you just want to. And I'm, I'm sure there's a lot of ways that could have gone about this. You wonder if you would have said, hey, we have Dalton connect in the 2031, you know, first round pick, which might be the most talked about draft pick ever. Like, how many times have we heard about this particular draft pick? Like, so much. But he. I think that he's going to be amazing on the offensive end for them. I think he's also just an amazing offensive rebounder too. And so I think offensively it's going to be an incredible match. And then, like, defensively, we'll see. The numbers are very bad. Like, one of. I mean, he's. He's basically in line with like the same rim kind of rim defense as like, Damona Sabonis. And like, we all know what that means. And so I. There's definitely concerns there. But yeah, I think Mark Williams is going to be. I think he's going to be a good addition to the Lakers. Okay, next category is the Gordon Hayward Award. A trade that most people praised, but it will reveal that this player is washed or maybe not as good as we thought. Shout out to Gordon Hayward, who just refused to shoot the basketball in like, one of, like the weirdest stints with a team where he just even refused to look at the rim. He would, he would receive the ball not facing the rim and immediately pass. Just an odd, odd stint for him. So who's. Who's our gordo of this trade deadline?
- [18:59]
Mike Convey
The Gordon Hay Award.
- [19:03]
Fred Katz
Gordon Hay Award.
- [19:06]
Mike Convey
I struggled on this because it's hard to just like, predict someone's downfall, but I went with Jonas Valentunas.
- [19:14]
Fred Katz
Okay.
- [19:15]
Mike Convey
Not as consequential a situation as Gordon Hayward was in with a one seed last year. Yeah, but Valentunas is putting up. Valentunas is put or was putting up numbers in Washington. When I watched him play, I was like, well, there's a very clear reason why on this, Valentinus is putting up numbers in Washington. And it's because he is going out there and he's like, I'm going to handle getting my numbers in Washington. And it's very easy to get your numbers in Washington because nobody else is getting the numbers in Washington other than Kyle Kuzma, who we might talk about.
- [19:49]
Fred Katz
Somebody's got to score the points.
- [19:50]
Mike Convey
Yeah, somebody's got to score the points. He does not look to get into any action when he gets the basketball. He's kind of stylistically the exact opposite player of Demonta Sabonis. I am curious to see how the Kings even use him. It's a. It's a weird one. I, I don't. I don't hate it. Maybe he'll just put up numbers and it'll. It'll be fine. But I could, I could totally see a situation where it's like, this is not the dude who we thought it was.
- [20:25]
Fred Katz
Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's just kind of like their backup center and they, they have gone all in on offense only, you know, you get Zach Levine, you get Valentunas. They do not seem to be concerned about the defensive end of the court at all. And so they'll be fun. I think they'll be a fun, like, post trade deadline team. Just kind of see how it all works. But yeah, I have Kyle Kuzma here. Another Wizard. Like, are we, are we 100% sure that even though Khris Middleton is limited and he can't play the minutes that you want him to anymore, are we, are we 100% sure that Kyle Kuzma is going to help the Bucs be a better team? Because he's been one of the worst players in the NBA this season. And I'm just not totally convinced, like, that you should have given up a swap or really should have traded for him at all. And so I just, I don't like this. I know a lot of people have talked about how this feels like the beginning of the end for the Bucks and like, how sad it is as a Bucks fan to see a guy like Khris Middleton go for a guy like Kyle Kuzma. I'm just not 100% sure that this would be the guy that you would want coming in and replacing those minutes. I know he can play more, which is about the only argument that I've heard that maybe makes a little bit of sense is that he can play more than what Middleton could. But I just hate. I honestly, I just hate this deal for the Bucks. I just. I don't think it's helpful if Kuzma.
- [21:47]
Mike Convey
Plays the way he did in Washington, then him playing more is not helpful. No, because he was extremely. He was the tank commander.
- [21:58]
Fred Katz
He was.
- [22:00]
Mike Convey
He was. He's been the single most detrimental player to his team's hopes of winning in the NBA this season. Shot selection, defensive intensity, defensive decision making. I actually have a note in my Friday morning notebook about Kuzma. It's funny you met. You mentioned Kuzma for this. And I mentioned Williams because I had written this. I sent this to you before you sent me the awards for the podcast. And I literally called the section of my notebook the PJ Washington Corollary. And I wrote about Williams and Kuzma as the two guys who fit the PJ Washington Corollary.
- [22:36]
Fred Katz
Yep.
- [22:36]
Mike Convey
And there's a sequence that I mentioned that Kyle Kuzma had two weeks ago. Charles, like the worst decision of the NBA season was not made by anybody making a trade. It was Kyle Kuzma for these 20 seconds when he grabbed a defensive rebound, went the other way, pulled up for a 21 foot two pointer with both of his feet inside the three point arc, like just barely with 21 seconds on the shot clock, just clanked it. Kevin Durant got the rebound. Kuzma was guarding Kevin Durant in the other end and Durant was on the left wing, didn't have the ball. Fifteen seconds later, Devin Booker tried a step back move from the mid range like 15ft away from Kuzma. And Kuzma just sprinted away from Durant and flew at Devin Booker like, oh, no way is this guy gonna shoot this contested fade away 16 footer without me getting in his face. And he just flew by him and, and Booker was just like, Booker, Booker. I, you can't see his face because the back of his head from the TV camera. I like to think that Booker smiled. I like to think that he smiled based on how the muscles in the back of his head showed. I like to think that he smiled as Kuzma just so that's a new.
- [24:05]
Fred Katz
Level of body language.
- [24:06]
Mike Convey
Yeah. Sword by him. And Kuzma just unperturbed, just passed it out to Kevin Durant, who hit a wide open three because Kuzma decided not to guard him. And it's like, you know who, who never does that? Chris Middleton. Chris Middleton may not stay on the floor, but you know who's shooting 50 from the field and 40 from three right now? Chris Middleton. You know who's going to make the right decisions? Chris Middleton. You know, average 24, nine and five in a playoff series like nine months ago. Chris Middleton. I, I It gets them out of the second apron.
- [24:38]
Fred Katz
Yay.
- [24:42]
Mike Convey
So the draft pick is, I hate to be unfair.
- [24:45]
Fred Katz
It's like that. Why don't. Okay, if you're calling the Wizards and maybe you have an answer to this, why are you not asking about Corey Kispert?
- [24:55]
Mike Convey
I, I don't have an answer. I like Corey Kispert. Corey Kispert will be good On a winning team. He's a really good shooter. He's really good running around screens, good cutter under underrated defender. Like, he's, he's not a bad defender. Yeah, break his spirit.
- [25:10]
Fred Katz
He's a, he's a good player. He's like one of the like hidden gems in the NBA that no one ever talks about. But he would be great, especially with Giannis. Like, he'd be great. And even like according to cleaning the glass, Kyle Kuzma, when his on offs -11.8. It's the worst on the team. And it could just be that like he's just tired of this, you know, he's tired of being in Washington. He's tired of the situation, doesn't like the new coach, whatever, you know, like, who knows? There's probably a lot of ingredients and as to why he has played the way he has, but I just, if, if I were a gm, there'd just be no circumstance where I would ever trade for a guy like Kyle Kuzma. And I, and I just don't get it. And I also don't get why the Bucks dealt for Kevin Porter Jr. Either. Like, like both, both deals make no sense to me. It's like if you're trying to win now, like those are not the kinds of players that I would want in a win now situation. Next award is the Purdl award to the team that gave up a first round pick for a player. And everyone will question it for all of next season and maybe even beyond. And I think that this has to go to probably, I mean, to the person who made the Pearl trade. Originally, it's to Masai Ujiri who dealt for Brandon Ingram. He dealt Bruce Brown. Kelly Olenek a 2026 first round pick, which is Indiana's pick. It's not their own pick. So it's a, it's an okay pick, you know, whatever. But if you're, if you're the Raptors and you're trying to build this team, wouldn't you just rather have more bites at the apple in the draft? Like that's like, what are we doing dealing for Brandon Ingram? It's. It's funny because I think that Masai has been definitely. People don't talk favorably about Masai in like the media in recent history, but I just also wonder is, has he just been the same guy all along? Because he's just, he, he is. What he's done as a guy who makes trades is he buys low on everybody. Like that's been his M.O. every single year. And just one of those years it happened to work out with Kawhi Leonard and that they bought low on Kawhi and it works. But I just wonder like, has Messiah actually just been like the same guy this entire time? Because a lot of people praised him then, but it's just all about the outcome of these buy low scenarios. And so to me, I think one Masai really hasn't probably changed at all throughout his entire tenure as a gm. And like this is just like another example of him buying low on a guy. And I think Brandon Ingram's a very talented player, but he's very inflexible in the way that he plays, you know, the game of basketball. And I just don't love his fit with this team. And I think giving up a first is just too much.
- [27:57]
Mike Convey
Fair point. I hadn't really thought about it like that, but that is a good point. I will add one thing. Everybody is. There's no question everyone's going to be like, why did they give up another first? Because, because they've done this. They have traded a first round pick for a rental. Four consecutive trade deadlines. Yeah, we could call this, we don't have to call this the Yaka Pertle Award. We could call this.
- [28:26]
Fred Katz
Yeah, just call it the Maasai Award.
- [28:29]
Mike Convey
Exactly. I mean they, they have traded first round picks for rentals. Four trade deadlines in a row. And people are going to talk about the mismanagement of assets like that the portal pick ended up being a good pick. That was Rob Dillingham. It was a top 10 pick. And they just, they just gave that up for Jakob Hurdle and then they had to pay Jakob Pearl, who is not a bad player, but it's like you're a good player team. You know, they, they gave Emmanuel Quickley a huge contract that hasn't worked out yet. It looks like it's going to be kind of a lost year for Emmanuel Quickley. So far. What I'm thinking about honestly is beyond just like the roster building questions and like how did they let Van Vliet walk for nothing and how did they let Lowry get to free agency and did they wait too long on Siakam? Did they wait too long on OG Anunobi? I don't really see the basketball vision like, let's just talk about this as a basketball team, not as some sort of.
- [29:25]
Fred Katz
He's, he's, he's buy low, sell low.
- [29:29]
Mike Convey
Buy low, sell lower. When they buy. When they buy low, we sell lower. It's a little known political Quote I just don't see the vision as a basketball team. Like yeah, you have now. Brandon Ingram at his best when the basketball is in his hands. RJ Barrett at his best when the basketball's in his hands. Emmanuel Quickley at his best when the basketball's in his hands. Your best young player, Scotty Barnes, who you want to be able to, doesn't need the basketball to succeed, but you want to be able to give it to him and let him do stuff because he's your most promising young player and he's like the guy who could end up becoming an all star out of all of these young guys that you have and you're just putting together a team of guys who don't enhance each other. And then you got Jacob Pertle just parked in the middle randomly going for 35 in November games. And I don't see the vision, I don't see the movement away from the ball. I don't see the cohesion, I don't see this screening, I don't see the cutting. I don't see the creation really because a lot of those guys are best creating shots for themselves, not for others. I don't see how those players enhance each other. And you're going to have to lock all of them into expensive contracts. Like RJ Barrett is, is honestly very improved this year and has been one of the most improved passers in the NBA. But quickly is, is locked in for five years. Barrett has three more. I think after this one. Ingram, presumably you're going to resign on a long term deal. Barnes obviously going to be around for a while. Like Pearl, you resigned to a long term deal. Like how do these players enhance each other and what is the long term vision here? Just like on the court. I don't, I don't understand.
- [31:22]
Fred Katz
Yeah, especially when you're about to add a lottery pick and like possibly a top five, like even top three pick to this team. It, it feels like a very tough environment to develop a player when you have so many guys that need the basketball in order for them to be maximized. Like you said. I mean if you, if they ended up getting like a Dylan Harper in, in the draft, well that's great. But like we're not talking about spot up guys or movement shooters or anything like that. We're talking about guys like you said that need the basketball to get in their best positions. It's just a really rough environment to develop somebody like that. Honestly Cooper flag would be a great fit for them if they didn't end up getting the number one pick because he's not somebody that has to have the basketball. He's kind of like this, like, all encompassing, connecting guy on offense and defense and can do a lot of things. He'd be perfect. But when we're talking about some of these other guys, I think it's a tough environment for development and it's. It's a. A lot for. For Darko to have to kind of stitch together. And so I, I don't. I don't understand it. I don't love it. And I think that we're going to be talking about it for the next year or so. You know, I just think that that's just the nature of this one. Okay. We have three more awards to go. We have the Mike Conley Award, a trade for a veteran that will end up helping turn a team around. I. And this isn't necessarily turn them around, but I think Dennis Schroeder is going to be good with the Pistons. I think that Schroeder. Did you have that too?
- [32:52]
Mike Convey
Yeah.
- [32:54]
Fred Katz
I think he's going to be awesome with them. I think that Schroeder is good in situations like this where, like, they. They just need a little bit more and like, they actually need him to get out there and score. I think that he fits well with their style of play. I think he's going to like playing with some of these younger guys. I think they have guys that can set good screens, and I think that they just need somebody else that can go get buckets. And I know we can say some of the same things about the warriors as we can about the Pistons. But. But we've seen in the past, like, it is not easy to fit in in the Warrior system as a guy like that. I mean, look at Kelly Oubre, who's been really, really good for the Sixers, who looked like he might be on his way out of the league whenever he was with the Warriors. And so I just think, like, this is a great change of scenery. I think he's going to help them. I think. I personally think the Pistons will probably make the, like, actual playoffs and I think that Dennis Schroeder is going to help them get there. I really, really like this for them.
- [33:46]
Aura
Them.
- [33:47]
Mike Convey
Yeah, I like that move for them a lot. They really didn't give anything up to get him. And I mean, with. With Jaden Ivy out, that's where it's important because.
- [33:55]
Fred Katz
Absolutely.
- [33:56]
Mike Convey
When Ivy is not there with Kate off the floor, the offense just doesn't run. So they are. When Ivy and Cade Cunningham are not on the court this season. They are 9.9 points per 100 possessions. Worse, they need one of those guys on the court to run the offense. The offense turns it over about one every six possessions when neither of those guys is on the court. And Schroeder is just going to instill like just some stability there, just like the he can run an offense like a veteran, competent point guard, and I think he's going to stabilize them a little bit more. He can also play fast like they like to play. He can play frantically on defense like they like to play, can get to passing lanes like they like to do. He'll play hard like they do. Like, I, I, I think, I think that was a good ad for them and I think it made them better with really a very low cost. I really like that move for them. The other one that I considered was DeAndre Hunter, but I don't think it necessarily made the Cavs contenders. I think the Cavs, you know, were obviously already in that spot. They have the best record in the east, but it's been years that the Cavs have looked for whoever the heck it is to play that three and for it not to be a weakness for them in the playoffs. And somebody, whoever has been at the three has always, it's always been someone who has had a flaw that has come back to bite them in the postseason. It's Isaac Okoro. It's a, it's the guy who they park in the corner. You know, it's Isaac Okoro who has to stand in the corner and who defenses in the playoffs are just not going to guard and they're going to help off of them and they're going to come into the lane and you're going to have Mobley out there and Allen out there already. And now you have three guys who you're not guarding and it's going to be a problem. Or it's Dean Wade who gives you a little bit of everything but not a lot of anything. Or it isn't healthy either and isn't healthy. Or it's Caris LeVert who is shooting the heck out of the ball this season, but is a he's can get bullied on defense and historically is not an amazing shooter. And you wonder if those numbers are going to regress to a degree. And with Hunter, it's like he makes sense. He's big, he's physical. He's having the best year of his career. He can knock down corner threes consistently 39, 40% on corner threes. He's having the best shooting season of his career right now. I think he'll make a ton of sense for them offensively. Keep him in the corners. He's really good at like baseline cutting when defenders fall asleep and stuff. He's gotten really good at that. I, I think he makes a ton of sense for them. I thought that was a, that was a, that was a good move they getting. You know, Lavert has had a really good year.
- [36:52]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [36:52]
Mike Convey
Hunter is, is, is maybe the sixth man of the year favorite though, and, and, and Niang had kind of fallen out of, out of the rotation there. So I'm, I, I like that move for Cleveland and I also appreciate Cleveland being so close to the tax and being like, screw it, we're adding money. We believe in this team.
- [37:11]
Fred Katz
Yeah, no, yeah, I'm with that. Do you think they'll miss Lavert's playmaking though? Because like, they, he. He's been really good for them. Like, he, he has played a pretty important role for them. And so I just wonder. Cause the thing with Hunter is like, he is basically he's one of like the, the only like three and D guys in the league because like, most guys can do a lot more. Like Hunter is. He's not a good rebounder. He's not much of a passer. He's not much of a playmaker in general. Um, I just wonder if they'll miss that playmaking. I, I obviously like him a little bit better in this role, but I also would like to see what it looks like too, just because Lavert has, has really made himself into a really good player on this team and, and found a way to fit in. And so I, I think there's some elements that they'll miss of, Of Caris.
- [37:58]
Mike Convey
I think they might. I mean, there's no question there are elements that they'll miss. Like, he's had a really good year for them, shooting over 40 from three and he's been a really important playmaker. But they can rejigger their rotation also in ways to make this work. Like, they've got two elite, elite, elite all star level players, playmaking guards, and Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland, who are.
- [38:19]
Fred Katz
Both literally all stars.
- [38:20]
Mike Convey
Yes, literally all stars. Both them are awesome. Garland's having the best year of his career. He has been great and he's been a great playmaker for them. Evan Mobley is not your conventional guard who is going to set up, but he's had a really, really good season as a playmaker and really as a As a. As a connector. And honestly, I think Ty Jerome gives him a little bit of a. I.
- [38:43]
Fred Katz
Was about to mention Ty Jerome too, where it's like, yeah, true.
- [38:48]
Mike Convey
Ty Jerome has been one of the great surprises in the league this year. He's been awesome for them. And he just comes in and takes 19 floaters in a row and he hits 16 of them and shoots 40 some odd percent from three. And he's been good when you give the ball to him in the bench lineups. And I, it looks. It looks real. Like, I don't. I don't have any reason to believe that it's not real. So I think they have enough ball handling and their ability to go out there and get a wing with size who can guard a little bit, who could shoot, who can cut, who could finish, who's getting to the line more than ever now, who's just much stronger on his drives and his cuts than he's ever been. Like, I think their priorities were in line, and you just got to give up something to get something. And they took out of a well, where they had a wealth of stuff like they have. They are literally the number one offense in the league right now. Like, they have a wealth of playmaking. And ultimately, when you get to the playoffs, it's like Mitchell's minutes are going up, Garland's minutes are going up. Like, these guys are going to be on the floor a lot more. It's not going to be as big of a deal. And you want somebody who's going to compliment those guys because that's who's on the court in the most important moments.
- [40:02]
Fred Katz
Next award is the Simone Fontecchio Award. It's the trade that NBA sickos just obsess over. And you just talk about it so much. I remember hearing the name Simone Fontechio in my ears so much because I listen to everything. I'm obsessed with NBA podcasting, if you didn't already know that. But I just remember so much talk about Simone Fontechio and how much he's going to help and this and that. And so who is the Simone Fontechio of February of 2025?
- [40:29]
Mike Convey
Well, you left out the second part of the award.
- [40:33]
Fred Katz
Oh, it's a trade. But it won't move the needle. But it won't move the needle at all. Sorry.
- [40:37]
Mike Convey
There we go. The NBA sickos obsess over, but it won't move the needle at all. And I. I just want to preface this by saying this guy is good. He has had a good year, but also, like, we really need to freak out about Memphis trading Jake Laravia. Yes, we need to bug about Memphis trading Jake Laravia, who as of six months ago, they didn't even want to pick up his, his fourth year rookie team option. And, and now we're just gonna freak about one of the most well run organizations being like, oh, they gave away Jake Laravia. I mean, you're capped on how much you can pay Laravia this summer anyway. Although I don't know if he's going to cost you much more than they're capped at because you're capped at like 5 million because you did not.
- [41:32]
Fred Katz
Right.
- [41:32]
Mike Convey
Declined his option. He's been good for them. He's been good off the dribble. I wrote a whole thing about Jake Laravia jump passes in my notebook a few weeks ago because I'm literally the only person who cares about such things and how Jake Laravia just has the funniest looking jump passes in the NBA. And yet they were like the most efficient jump passes in the NBA. The Grizzlies were averaging like 1.28 points per possession when Jake Laravia had a junk pass, which made him the most efficient jump passer in the NBA.
- [42:02]
Fred Katz
That's insane.
- [42:03]
Mike Convey
And yet he averaged only 13 inches of vertical on his jump passes. Like he only jumped 13 inches in the air. Like Jake Laravia. Jump passes are glorious and they're hilarious. And he throws them from ridiculous angles and they look like glitches in, in, in a, in a matrix or something. And he's shooting 40 some odd from 3 and he's been good. But like, come on, it's fine. Memphis will be fine.
- [42:31]
Fred Katz
It is not going to move the needle.
- [42:32]
Mike Convey
Yeah, Memphis will be fine. Memphis wasn't going to give Jake La Ravia a ton of money this summer. Like, they weren't going to give him $5 million because they're already paying like John Contra $6 million. They have too many players.
- [42:43]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [42:43]
Mike Convey
And they want to be able to have the cap space to renegotiate and extend Jaren Jackson Jr. So it's not like they were giving them the money. They have too many rotation players. They have too many good players. So make the trade. And like, you know who, you know, you know who wins the title every year without fail, every single season, every single team in NBA history. You know what they've had in common that has won the title? They haven't had Jake Laravia. You'll be fine. Without Jake Laravia. You can reach the highest levels of success. You know who the 96 Bulls didn't employ Jake Laravia. Like, not saying they won because they didn't have Jake Laravia. I'm just saying not having Jake Laravia didn't prevent them from winning 72 games in the title and being an epic team. Like, you can. You can. You can win without Jake Laravia. It's okay.
- [43:36]
Fred Katz
I like, I think that they're all just putting their hands in the huddle and looking around. It's like, Jake Laravia here. Nope. All right, we got a chance. Let's go.
- [43:44]
Mike Convey
He's good. I like Jake Laravia. I don't disagree with the people who are like, Jake Laravia is having a good. He is having a good year. He is good. He is. I like the move for the Kings, but, like, I don't think it's going to change their win total.
- [43:58]
Fred Katz
Yeah. Here's how you know, it is like, the sicko, like, Simone Fotechio award is that, like, when you talk to people that are the NBA SECOs, they're going to talk about, well, shouldn't have declined that fourth year option. You know, like that. That sentence right there is like, the NBA like, cap dork sentence right there. Talking about the fourth year option. Shouldn't decline the fourth year option, man. Can't believe they did that with Jake Laravia. Okay, last one.
- [44:22]
Mike Convey
Wait. What's your.
- [44:23]
Fred Katz
What's your. I. I had La Ravia here, too. I considered. Another one that I considered was Bogdanovich. Cause he's somebody that I think a lot of people are talking about. He's had a really rough year for Atlanta and a guy that they haven't been able to play all that much. And he is, like, so, like, he's so theoretical in a lot of ways. In my head, just because you think about, like, his ability to be a playmaker and his ability to shoot it from deep and to kind of be a guy that can score from a lot of different spots on the floor and everything. But he's also one of those guys that's a little bit older than you think he is. He's already 32 and has just. He's had a rough year in Atlanta. And so I just. I mean, Atlanta was the team that had to give up the assets, you know, in this deal. And so, like, I just. I just wonder about him because I think he is being talked about in a pretty favorable way. But, you know, a lot of people aren't watching Atlanta and specifically not watching him and just kind of have. You have this, like, cemented, like, version of him. In your head about what he is and what he's all about, and maybe he is that in la, but I think that that, that might be a little bit over talked about with him just because he may not end up having all that much of an impact on the Clippers because they've, they've got guys that can play and have had guys all season that can play. The last one is the Bogdanovich and Burks award to the most overrated trade deadline. God, remember how much people are like, man, the Knicks won the trade deadline. It's Bogdanovich and Berks, the double B boys that are helping out the Knicks. And then they just like, didn't play. I have, I have this Jimmy Butler trade as my Bogdanovich and Burks deal just because I think it's talked about too much. I think that in the grand scheme of things, it's going to be completely inconsequential. I think that's just being talked about too much. A lot of it is the names that are involved in this deal and just the fact that we've been talking about Jimmy all season long. And you know, even like the Andrew Wiggins, you know, portion of it where, like, everybody's crying because he's leaving, they love him so much, blah, blah, blah. I just think that ultimately we're talking about the playoffs, we're talking about this title hunt. I don't think the Heat or the warriors have enough, you know, to get to where they want to go. And I think it's going to be pretty inconsequential in the long run. In fact, you could even argue like, this isn't, this is not good for, like, the future or a cap sheet for the Warriors. And I, I don't know, I just like, to me, I just think that it's, it's, it's going to be one of those that we all talked about a lot. And then once we get to June, we're going to be like, wait, why do we spend so much time talking, talking about that?
- [47:07]
Mike Convey
That's a great answer. There are basketball fit issues potentially with him and Draymond. That's a. Yeah, that's a good answer. I had Kyle Kuzma for all the reasons we discussed earlier about Kuzma, but I also don't know if it's overrated. I feel like people's reactions kind of vary, but just giving up a swap for Kuzma and giving up Middleton for Kuzma, it's like there's another part of this too, and we've obviously seen this in the Luka Doncic trade, which is like, I've spoken to friends who are Bucks fans. I spoke to a friend who's a Bucks fan and he's just devastated that this is. This was the end of Chris Middleton. Like, yeah, you know, like, it's funny, outside of the market, Chris Middleton was there for 12 years. He's a legend. Like Chris Middleton should in my. Chris Middleton should absolutely have his number retired by the Bucks.
- [48:00]
Fred Katz
Oh, yeah, yeah. And a guy that was like a second round pick that they traded for, that was never supposed to even be a starter in the NBA that had like made himself into an all star level player, like in front of your fans, in front of these people. And he's like a good guy, like great to the community, like all that. Like he's, he's like the whole package of like a player that you would.
- [48:21]
Mike Convey
Want on your franchise and plays with no ego whatsoever.
- [48:25]
Fred Katz
Yes.
- [48:25]
Mike Convey
One of the most underrated three level scorers of the last decade. Just unbelievably efficient from every single area on the court and just gets you 20 points. However you need 20 points. You want a guy to break the math. Shooting from mid range, great. Chris Middleton. Anytime Chris Middleton takes mid range shot, it's basically a good shot. Like he had seasons shooting over 50% from mid range. Ridiculous.
- [48:49]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Mike Convey
Chris Milton could get to the rim. Great finisher around the rim. Chris Milton get to the paint and shoot floaters. He could hit 40 from three. Like he's still shooting 40 from three. Even as, like, you know, we talk about his body falling apart, he's still shooting 40 from 3. I just feel like there's an emotional aspect of that one too. That, that kind of, that kind of gets me and I don't, I don't love. Can I make up one more award? Do we have time for me to make up an award?
- [49:14]
Fred Katz
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it.
- [49:17]
Mike Convey
Can we have the Masai Ujiri overplayed his hand award to a gm? To a GM that should have made certain moves or. And failed to do so. Does anyone come to mind for you?
- [49:34]
Fred Katz
I don't. I would love to know where you're going with this.
- [49:37]
Mike Convey
I just want to give it to Sean Marks. I. I can't believe they didn't trade Cam Johnson. Like I could believe. Like, it's not like it came to trade deadline day and I'm like, they're definitely trading Cam Johnson. We knew they weren't trading Cam Johnson. But like, like when they made the Bridges trade in June of last year, in conjunction with the Bridges trade, they made another trade with Houston to receive back full control over their 2025 first round pick and giving up future first round picks. And when they did that, the reason you do that deal at that time is because you're now in control of 2025 and you are saying, well, we're just going to make sure that we stink for 2025 so we can have as good of a chance as we possibly can at getting a high draft pick. And look, they're not good, but I was really surprised this summer because they agreed to that trade in June. They have plenty of time. They had, they had the draft, they had free agency. They had time to trade Dorian Finney Smith, they had time to trade Cam Johnson, they had time to trade their veterans and they held on to Finney Smith. And Finney Smith won them some damn games. The nets were like 15 points per 100 possessions better when Dorian Finney Smith was on the floor this year. It was a disaster. Jordy Fernandez is a really good coach by the way. He has done a great job with that team. They play crazy hard. They do great stuff. They all know their roles. He has done a great job. He's too good of a coach for that situation. Too good. But I won't knock him for that because that would be outrageous. And they held on to Cam Johnson because they set too high of a price on Cam Johnson. Like, yeah, you're not getting two first round picks for Cam Johnson in a Markham where Luca Doncic commands one. Like, you're not.
- [51:18]
Fred Katz
Yeah, no kidding.
- [51:19]
Mike Convey
You're not gonna get that. And the fact that they just now have Cam Johnson and just watch, like, I mean, we'll see if, you know, he just gets shut down for the rest of the year because of some mysterious injury or whatever else. But he's won them too many games already. And I, he is a good player who fits in a bunch of places, is like one of the most popular teammates in the league, one of the most high character dudes in the league. Everybody loves Cam Johnson as a guy. Like, he'll fit in anywhere from a personality standpoint, work work ethic standpoint. Coaches love him. Players love him. Like, like it's, there should be no challenges in trading Cam Johnson. And it's not like the Nets are going to be in an awful spot. They'll be in a spot to where they, they, they might end up, you know, if Toronto wins some games with Ingram, they might end up with the fifth worst record in the league, which puts them in almost as good of a chance to get number one as anybody else. But like, yeah, they could have controlled this better.
- [52:17]
Fred Katz
Yeah, they're in six right now. And like, I mean, ask Utah. You know what it's like to be picking in like the back half of the top 10. Like, you have to like really sell out to, to do this. Like, you have to do it right. Like these half measures of tanking is, is what gets you in the middle fast than anything. Because I mean, you look at like the prospects that Utah has right now, like, you could argue that none of those guys are going to be on the team in the next five years, you know, and like, it's, it's a tough place to pick when you're picking six through 10. It's a tough place to be. You need top five picks. Like, sometimes you can, you know, catch lightning in a bottle and get like the best guy in the draft at 7 or 8. Like, sure, that happens. But, but you're way more likely to get that guy if you're in the top five. Like, you have to sell out to be in the top five. You have to actually do it. And yeah, they're probably going to end up with the six best. And you know, you can fall, you can, you can fall far. Like you could, they could end up with the eighth pick in the draft. Like those kinds of things happen. And if that happens to you, man, and like, they could still get lucky. Like you said, like they, they, they could sneak up and get the number one pick. I'm doing tankathon spins right now. Seven, seven, eight. I mean like, this stuff is tough. Like, this stuff is really, really tough. So. Yeah, I agree. They should, they should have just traded him because they're eventually going to trade him. Like you're gonna do it. It's like, why don't you just do it right now?
- [53:48]
Mike Convey
Right now, the most likely scenario for Brooklyn, if you have the six best lottery outs, your most likely scenario is you pick seventh. There's a 29.8% chance you pick seventh and there's a 20.6% chance you pick eighth. And those are your most likely. There's an 8.6% chance you pick six. And right there, that means there is a. Do the math. There is an almost 60% chance that you are going to be picking 6, 7th or 8th if you go into the draft or you go into the lottery with the 6, 6 worth record. So like, huh, it's brutal.
- [54:28]
Fred Katz
Well, that's gonna do it for our Trade Deadline Awards. I appreciate you guys listening. Appreciate Fred for joining us today. If you'll leave us a five star review on Apple podcast, we will read it on the show. Just like this one from Torian Prince who says I'm him five stars. Look, I'm gonna get to the point you guys need to include me more. I lead the league in three point percentage. Okay? Sorry about that Taurean Prince. Next one comes from Missing Mikhail five stars for Slam and Jam. I've been listening to this show every Saturday for years and I've got to say it's my favorite pod of the week. These guys are awesome and the trivia is great. I laugh out loud at least once a week at the hilarious questions that they come up with. Keep up. Keep keeps me going during my Saturday chores. Appreciate that Trivia will be back next next week. By the way, Alex couldn't swing this morning and so thanks to Fred again for joining. And Alex will be back with some trivia next week and Rockets week will be extended another week which has by the way not gone well for the Rockets. So take that as you will. Next one comes from Chrissy and the F's friend. Incredible stuff. Great show. For anyone who wants daily updates with the NBA, I follow basketball court quite a bit and haven't even heard half the news that they mention so it's been nice to listen every morning. Also behind MJ Kobe is the second greatest of all time rip. Thank you so much for that review. I agree the athletic NBA Daily Crew has done just a spectacular job this season. Next one comes from TDOT who says the Saturday Late Night Crew did a great job. NBA News as it happens by AS Farah, Henny Z and Alex Spears plus Jason Gallagher. A great show. This pod caught Dallas native and now OKC resident Gallagher in his discombobulated feelings right after the trade. Alex Spears, you are the master of the emergency pod. Super work for you for yes for sure. That was incredible. If you have not listened to that, it's worth going to listen to Alex and Jason Gallagher break down what it was like to be a Mavs fan in that moment. And then last from one comes from Lil Laser 11. Good show. Five stars and then he says very good. So thank you so much for leaving those five star reviews again. We'll read them on the show if you will leave us a five star review. Very much appreciate you guys doing that. Hope you guys enjoy your weekend and the basketball and we'll talk to you guys again next Saturday.
- [57:08]
Discover
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard McCrispy strips.
- [57:34]
Mike Convey
Are now at McDonald's tender juicy and its own sauce. Would you look at that. Well, you can't see it, but trust me, it looks delicious. New McCrispy strips now at McDonald's this.
- [57:48]
Aura
Podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark Web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety. That's Aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's Aura. Com Safety terms apply. Check the site for details.