Esperahenny (2:35)

We.

Dave DeForest (2:35)

We love to take questions as we go. And if you haven't yet, join our Discord. If you're. Again, if you're listening to podcasts, the link is in the show description. We took a bunch of questions from the Discord and we will also take questions from the live chat. But before we get to the questions, s. How's it going? I'm good, man.

Esperahenny (2:53)

I'm good. Vibing out. You know, we're kind of in the lulls of the NBA season, as we both know. January is. Is. It's sort of weird because it's also the time of the calendar that matters the most.

Dave DeForest (3:06)

Right.

Esperahenny (3:06)

But it's also the time where most the conversation ends up being either trade related or injury related or why is this team that was very good to start the year all of a sudden slumping related? Like, it's just. Yeah, it's kind of. Those are the three conversations that end up revolving. But, yeah, I'm good otherwise, man. Kind of tragging along until the. The trade deadline comes along.

Dave DeForest (3:30)

Yeah, we're almost at the halfway point, so we'll probably do like our bigger check ins next week. Yeah, you know, I. I feel like the first of the year, this is. It's all trade talk. You know, we've gotten past December 15th. We've gotten through the NBA cup and Christmas Day, and we are a little under a week away from the January 15th deadline. So everyone is available for trade, essentially. And I think, like, we're probably pretty close to. To seeing our first deal happen. Like, it feels like the Trey Young thing is just coming to a head. You've got his people working with. It seems like maybe only the Wizards. Although Trey would like to go Brooklyn.

Esperahenny (4:15)

Minnesota.

Dave DeForest (4:16)

Minnesota reported that today. Yeah, listen, I. I will say right now I don't understand why you would choose Brooklyn over Washington, given what's the current state of the teams. I mean, it's. It's pretty clear to me that anybody paying attention to the NBA.

Esperahenny (4:31)

Yeah.

Dave DeForest (4:32)

The Washington Wizards are on the path to. To being decent, at least. I don't know if they're going to be good.

Esperahenny (4:39)

I think. I think it's more fun to be in Williamsburg, you know, grab a beer in Brooklyn, you know, like one of those things. Maybe he's a big IPA guy.

Dave DeForest (4:48)

You know, we don't defend our nation's capital, one of our greatest cities. It's a walkable city.

Esperahenny (4:55)

Look, I have a sister who lives there. Yes, absolutely.

Dave DeForest (4:57)

It's urban transit. Yep. We have beautiful parks and monuments and Museums, you know, that celebrate our rich history. Well, I would say storied. Yeah. Varied history. Yeah. It's a. Listen, D.C. is a great place, but the Wizards, the thing about it is it's. It's a more natural fit today than. Than it would be in Brooklyn.

Esperahenny (5:22)

They're also. The Wizards are a little bit closer to the, hey, we gotta try to be competitive eventually. Timeline than the Nets are. Right. Like the Nets. The Nets are still. They started this year, really, when it comes to drafting, what, five rookies that they had. And while we've both been impressed with their competitiveness, you know, and Jordy Fernandez is a very good coach, I think overall, the Wizards are kind of ready to take that next step, whatever that next step looks like. Are they trying to compete for a plan spot? Are they. They are going to get a lottery pick this year. And so you add another piece to the puzzle next to, you know, Alex Sar and Bilal Kulubali and Keyshawn George, who we like a lot. Trey Johnson, another guy. Like, adding Trey to be an organizer makes a lot of sense for the Wizards as they take this next step. I saw someone, I can't remember who tweeted this, but I. I agree with them that if you're trying to win a championship tomorrow, you're probably not trading for Trey Young. Right. But if you're trying to develop some young guys and get them to a certain point in their career, Trey might not be a bad idea for your team.

Dave DeForest (6:26)

You know, I mean, look, there's nothing wrong shot creation. Everybody's life gets easier.

Esperahenny (6:31)

Yeah.

Dave DeForest (6:31)

Offensively, at least, when you play with a guy like, like Trey and the defense for the Wizards, I. I think that it's going to be much better than it is right now. The guys are young and still figuring it out, but they've got. They've got some defensive talent like below. Kula Bali is very good on the wing. So obviously, I think Alex Starr has a. Has a high ceiling. We'll see if they can just pull that all together. But the other thing is, I think the Wizards are just in a better position to take the Trae Young gamble.

Esperahenny (6:57)

Right.

Dave DeForest (6:58)

They can try it out, and if it doesn't work, it's no big deal. They can literally let them walk. You flip the CJ McCollum, theoretically, the CJ McCollum expiring into what turns into a Trey Young expiring next year. And it's a low risk move because you actually, you've still got draft assets. You've got young guys on the roster that, you know, might develop internally. And so, hey, if it doesn't work out, it's not that big a deal. We're. Whereas for Brooklyn, I just don't think you can afford to make a deal for a guy like Trey and have it not work out. You also are going to give something up. Whereas the Wizards are not the Wizards. This is a free pass for them. Maybe they give up a second, but they probably get future picks that make up for the second because Trey is a bit of a distressed asset to me. It all lines up for the Wizards making the move because it's such a low risk, high reward play. But for Brooklyn, it makes no sense. You even said, if I'm trying to win a title this year, I'm not trading for Trey Young. Minnesota makes no sense.

Esperahenny (7:59)

Yeah, I, I think that's one of those moves where like, they're so desperate to find a point guard of the future that they're, they're.

Dave DeForest (8:05)

But the money is so much. I mean, it would just be so much cash on their books. I mean, it's like $50 million or 49 million years of the next year. So I, I just feel like the limiter there. You know, Trey is, Trey is a good player. Trey's not a great player. And you, you know, can he, can he be the second best player on a title team? I. I don't know anymore. Third, maybe. Assuming those other two guys are two way guys.

Esperahenny (8:30)

Yeah. You need perfect defense. And it's just weird because like we both said, this Hawks team was sort of perfectly constructed for trade and give it.

Dave DeForest (8:38)

It's all.

Esperahenny (8:39)

It just, it hasn't worked out that way.

Dave DeForest (8:41)

They haven't been healthy.

Esperahenny (8:43)

Why do you think it hasn't worked out the way we thought it had would have been for the Hawks?

Dave DeForest (8:46)

Well, I think part of it is they haven't been healthy. But the other part of it is, you know, Trey is not exactly a guy who elevates his teammates all that much, to be honest with you. And I know the assist numbers are high, so wouldn't that be once against.

Esperahenny (9:02)

The Wizards, you know?

Dave DeForest (9:03)

Okay, but the, the idea I guess is you bring them into your system, you try it out, he will create looks for other people. He wants to be the pass to assist guy. Yeah, yeah, all the time. But he will not play off the ball. And so I, for the Wizards, they probably just need a guy to come eat up, you know, hey, come, come eat up 70 of the possessions for us and create looks for these other guys and help organize the offense and teach them how to play basketball, basically. I mean, I don't know if this is a great move or not. You know, once, once it happens. I'm just thinking on the books, this is such a low risk gamble.

Esperahenny (9:40)

Right. That's a. Sure.

Dave DeForest (9:43)

Yeah. Because he's a talented player. Yeah, it's.

Esperahenny (9:46)

It's one of those interesting things because like every player that's potentially available at the trade deadline, nobody really wants like, you know, it's that meme.

Dave DeForest (9:58)

Perfect players don't get traded. Right. They just don't. I mean even Luca Doncic and you can look at him right now, I can make the argument that Nico Luca.

Esperahenny (10:08)

Is not a perfect player. Yeah, right.

Dave DeForest (10:10)

Yeah. I.

Esperahenny (10:11)

It's just funny to me because it's Trey Young, Anthony Davis, Lamelo ball, maybe Demontes, the bonus Jonathan Kaminga. It's like all these guys who are sort of the outside of Kaminga, they're like this bottom tier of star that are very difficult to build around. It's like of course, every star they stars.

Dave DeForest (10:35)

That's the thing. It's like star contracts, I think in star player are a different thing. A star player. I, I just, I don't know if we can call Trey Young that. He has a name that we know and he, I know he's been an all star and he's done. Is he that right now?

Esperahenny (10:48)

I'm.

Dave DeForest (10:48)

I'm just not sure. Stars win games, man. Yeah. Like Anthony Edwards is a star. I like that's a guy I want taking a shot. I, I just don't know if, if we can do that with Trey. But this is a good segue to our first listener question from the discord. Thor, our guy Thor, who is always hanging out with us on the live stream. Besides Atlanta about to trade for maybe Trey Young and Giannis being on the market potentially. Although I don't think Giannis is getting traded. I think that's over.

Esperahenny (11:14)

Yeah. I didn't mention him because I have a buck's take.

Dave DeForest (11:16)

We'll talk about it.

Esperahenny (11:17)

Doesn't seem like he's gonna get traded.

Dave DeForest (11:19)

Yeah. What are some minor moves that you'd like to see some of the top teams make? And I actually specific. I want to specify this question a little bit here for you. S the contenders, right. The five or six teams at the top.

Esperahenny (11:33)

Yeah.

Dave DeForest (11:33)

What can they do? What, what moves? I mean, I think Denver, they. When they get healthy with this newly found depth, I don't know that they need to add necessarily maybe another shooter. But what do you see any of These teams doing if anything.

Esperahenny (11:49)

So for the contenders, the lot of contenders, there's like different things that they can add. Right. I'm gon bunch the top three teams in the Eastern Conference. The Pistons, the Celtics and the Knicks. In the West, I'm gonna do the Thunder, the Spurs, the Nuggets. Those are the only three teams all, all due respect to the Lakers, who are currently the 3 seed by the way. Yeah, I, I don't think, I mean we're in agreement here that the Lakers are not contenders. Right.

Dave DeForest (12:17)

It is funny that they keep winning games, you know, here and there and, and like we don't they have Luca.

Esperahenny (12:24)

And LeBron and Austin Reeves and like the top 10 talent that it like they have the ability to win a series or two or three. But can they, you know, so I.

Dave DeForest (12:36)

Don'T think it's in the playoffs. Who knows, right? I, I, I just don't trust the defense. But also talent. Yeah really does. I mean you've got two rising tides, right?

Esperahenny (12:47)

I think, I think there's one team that should trade for Michael Porter Jr. In this bunch and that is the Detroit Pistons. I think that's like the, whoa. That so it's, it's by low to a certain degree. They don't have to go out and spend too much. It probably will end up being like one first round pick for them and they can exhaust that. They can use that because their pick is not going to be that great. You go out and use the salary that, that matches MPJ's contract and now you have a legitimate scoring option, a legitimate shooter. You know, of course they have Duncan Robinson and Tobias Harris can knock down a couple shots here and there. But overall you look at the season Michael Porter Jr. Is having, I think he would be a huge boost to the Pistons fans in the East. How do you feel Michael Porter Jr. For the Detroit Pistons?

Dave DeForest (13:35)

I mean I, if we're just judging on this season, man, what a great move.

Esperahenny (13:39)

Oh, it would be incredible.

Dave DeForest (13:40)

Yeah, that's, that's the issue is just like how much do you trust what this season's been. How much of this is great stats on a bad team guy. I happen to believe in it. I mean the shooting is real. This guy is a locked, I mean just complete nights lights out, shooter shoots off movement. Yeah, he can't put it on the floor. Which is the one thing I think Detroit could use, especially in that starting lineup is another guy who could put it on the floor. Sure, but, but with his shooting, like you'll have more space for Cade to operate. I don't, I don't hate it. And then the money's not too bad and it's not too long, which is, which is the, the most important thing. This isn't like. I mean, he doesn't have four years left on his deal, so.

Esperahenny (14:20)

Yeah, exactly.

Dave DeForest (14:22)

I don't know. I don't hate it. I like it better for them than I like it for the warriors, who. Who have been rumored to be interested in Michael Porter Jr. Yeah, I don't see that.

Esperahenny (14:31)

If I was the war. I mean, this. The warriors are not in the contender conversation for me.

Dave DeForest (14:35)

No, no, no.

Esperahenny (14:36)

If I was them, I would go ahead and rip the band aid off and trade Draymond Green and Jonathan Kaminga for Anthony Davis and just try it, you know, because when have they ever had a guy as big as Anthony Davis ever? You know, I think Maurice Spates is maybe the biggest player they've ever had. Like, I know Bogan. I mean, it's the biggest player there.

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Dave DeForest (14:57)

Anderson Vera was there. Come on.

Esperahenny (15:01)

I mean, come on. He was, he was old. He wasn't even the Vera that we know anymore. But anyways, I, I, you know, I.

Dave DeForest (15:09)

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Dave DeForest (15:10)

And this is like smaller down. Okay. I, I could see one of these teams maybe trying to get Keon Ellis. Just, he's available. He's not being used. It seems like you probably could pick him up kind of cheap. And maybe one of these teams, they're like, hey, we could use a ninth guy. We need a spark plug off the bench. We need a guy who can defend. I don't know.

Esperahenny (15:32)

I like it. Yeah, I, maybe. Who's the team to do that? By the way?

Dave DeForest (15:37)

The, the. If Vita Zubac to Boston rumors are starting to heat up. I'm just gonna throw that out there right now. And there's, there's a way for Boston, I think, that they could, even if they wanted to loop in, you know, like the Clippers and Dallas, right? Like, loop everyone into a three team trade. There's a way to make this everyone happy. You could send AD out to the Clippers Zoo winds up in Boston. And then, you know, you're doing salary moves, basically. But everyone could duck the tax. Everybody could save some money. Like, it's funny how the math works out. And then the Mavericks could wind up with some draft picks and expiring contracts. I like that. I mean, it's. Again, this is like, I'm just kind of throwing stuff out there in an audio and video format with no graphic for it. But I think that there's a. Whatever we see happening here with some of these guys just because the money is so big on some of the contracts that they want to move. I think we're going to see more three and four team deals like we have the last few seasons where just that's what it takes to, to get across the finish line.

Esperahenny (16:44)

So I'm. I'm gonna share my screen here. I don't know if people can see it, if you can present it for them. This is the, this is the Pistons trade that I cooked up earlier as. As we were talking for Michael Porter Jr. To be on the Pistons. But let's do the three team deal that you were talking about. Why not? Let's give it a shot. You. You mentioned the Clippers, Clippers, Celtics.

Dave DeForest (17:07)

Mavericks.

Esperahenny (17:09)

Okay.

Dave DeForest (17:10)

And the idea would be the principles being if it's a. Zubach winds up in Boston, Anthony Davis winds up on the Clippers and then you wind up with essentially like I think Anthony Simons salary probably winds up in. In Dallas.

Esperahenny (17:29)

Okay. So Simons and. Let's go Sam Hauser to Dallas.

Dave DeForest (17:33)

Both of those guys.

Esperahenny (17:34)

Dallas. Let's go. Anthony Davis to the Clippers. Let's go ahead and put it beats a Zoobots to Boston. And I'm guessing Boston would have to send a couple of picks here to Dallas.

Dave DeForest (17:46)

Oh, for sure. Dallas. Dallas needs to get some draft capital, that's for sure.

Esperahenny (17:52)

So let's. Let's see what else we need to do. The Clippers need to shed more salary here. Oh right. So it'll be, you know, Bogdan Bogdanovich will end up going to Dallas.

Dave DeForest (18:01)

Yes, that's it.

Esperahenny (18:04)

And probably a little bit more here. You. You probably have to send maybe John Collins as well to Dallas.

Dave DeForest (18:12)

I believe so.

Esperahenny (18:14)

There you go. And that's your. That's your trade. It doesn't work right now because of hard cap situations that Dallas probably needs to shed some salary, but something along the line of Zubots to the Celtics. And then you have a bunch of salary plus picks going to the Mavericks.

Dave DeForest (18:29)

And Anthony and Collins, Collins, Simons are both expiring. Is Zubac also. Excuse me, is Bogdanovich also expiring?

Esperahenny (18:39)

Bogdanovich has a one year deal after.

Dave DeForest (18:42)

This and I'm not sure if it's. I think it's fully guaranteed or not.

Esperahenny (18:45)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave DeForest (18:46)

But either way the, the Mavs get to reset their books kind of. I mean they still have Kyrie there, but they definitely are in a better cap space. And now the picks look I think if they get any picks, you know, the Boston picks probably aren't going to be any good. Yeah, but you can, you could pick up some assets for sure. And that's just I I think that if Boston winds up getting and as good as Kate has been this year, Nevis Keda, by the way, we probably he's Does Boston have a couple of guys in the Most Improved player race right now?

Esperahenny (19:20)

Oh yeah.

Dave DeForest (19:20)

I mean, yeah. Right. As good as he's been, he is not a guy that I would want to go into the playoffs if I felt like I was able to contend. Which, you know, may be a thing.

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Dave DeForest (21:56)

All right, let's get to the next question. We. That was a lot of time on a fake trade. Yeah, sorry. Okay, we got a couple Rockets questions so you know, we'll just do these back to back from JMS3035 in the Discord. Rockets fan here left the US for the holidays so wasn't locked into the games, but got notifications that both Jokic and Valentunas suffered medium term injuries. By the way, it doesn't include Cam Johnson in here. He missed that one.

Esperahenny (22:23)

Yeah.

Dave DeForest (22:23)

And assumed Houston would be able to take advantage in the standings. Why hasn't that happened?

Esperahenny (22:28)

S. Well, Shanguna is out also, and that's more of a recent development. But he's, he's out for 10 to 14 days. And so you see a team that is now kind of scrambling to be able to find some offense next to Valentunas. But truthfully, if you look at their last little bit of schedule, they have taken advantage. It's just that the rest of the west is also very, very good. They beat the Lakers on Christmas. They beat the Cavs. They beat, they took care of business against the Pacers, Nets and Mavericks and well, they lost to the Mavericks but they, they beat the, the Suns. I think overall they have taken care of business. It's just they picked up two games.

Dave DeForest (23:09)

I think in the last 10. The, the truth is that the Nuggets like stealing a win over the Sixers the other day unexpectedly.

Esperahenny (23:18)

Right?

Dave DeForest (23:18)

They haven't. I mean look, they are gonna go into a free fall. They just are, are too short handed. They don't have the talent. But four and six in their last 10 for the Nuggets. Six and four in their last 10 for the Rockets. So I mean it just, you know, it's. It. You can't win them all, sadly. And here's another Rockets question from Jack P. Also from the Discord. What chance do you give the Rockets in the playoffs without a true point guard? I actually think their defense will cover a multitude of sins, but not sure they'll have enough to make it out of the West. Love the pod. Avid listener from London.

Esperahenny (23:52)

So thank you very much, mate. Appreciate you.

Dave DeForest (23:55)

This is the late afternoon shoot around. Yeah.

Esperahenny (23:58)

Oh yeah, yeah. Little, little cup of tea shoot around for them. Yeah, look, I like the Rockets chances against certain matchups and the playoffs end up just being a matchup problem for every team. And so do I like the Rockets chances against the Lakers? Yes, I do, because I think they have the infrastructure defensively to do that. And then offensively they can try to keep up with their combination of KD and Chang Goon. Also, like, the Rockets are huge, right? They have the offensive rebounding that can really be an advantage over the Lakers. Do I like that against the Nuggets, who they have beat this year, by the way? I'm not necessarily sure. I'm not sold on the fact that they can beat the Nuggets in a series because of how elite the Nuggets offense is consistently and the way those two teams have played each other this year. I mean, Dave, we watched the game together, but in clutch moments, I, I kind of trust the Nuggets offense more than anything in the world.

Dave DeForest (24:57)

Jokic is the. Yeah, maybe the greatest clutch player in NBA history.

Esperahenny (25:04)

There's. There's an argument for it. And then the. The Murray Jokic connection is the easiest bread and butter connection out there in the.

Dave DeForest (25:11)

And what is. What is the Rockets bread and butter? Because your bread and butter can't be. We get the rebound and you know what I mean? Like, we hope.

Esperahenny (25:18)

We hope KD or Shang create something for us. Yeah, I think there's a little way.

Dave DeForest (25:22)

And bread and butter is a real thing. Like I will tell you, just like coach, like we, we call them butter plays. Like, I. I kept them in my back pocket on index card because it was like, hey, I gotta pull this out. I don't know what they pull out in Houston. And I know that the last few years, like this has kind of been a thing. Before Kevin Durant was there. Now you get to play the Kevin Durant card. Hey, kd, go get us a bucket and take the shot. And that's what like, the NBA accepts that. But can I.

Esperahenny (25:49)

Can I say one thing?

Dave DeForest (25:50)

Nuggets, they can run stuff.

Esperahenny (25:52)

So there's one team that I think the. The Rockets have a pretty decent advantage. Not advantage, but they have a good matchup against them. The Thunder.

Dave DeForest (26:00)

Oh. Oh, they have.

Esperahenny (26:02)

Because they have the size to switch everything. The driving lanes will not be there as much as you'd want for SGA and Jalen Williams. Obviously they have the offensive rebounding. They can go double big while OKC goes double big. Both teams, I think, have their flaws offensively, especially in the half court. And so it comes down to who can the other guys make shots for you? Right. I probably still trust the Thunder in that situation. But if it were a series and if it were a seven game series, I think the Rockets have a shot.

Dave DeForest (26:37)

If the Thunder aren't shooting it and the Rockets are zoned up, they're getting every rebound.

Esperahenny (26:41)

I mean it's very similar to the Nugget situation, just with way better infrastructure defensively for the Rockets. Right.

Dave DeForest (26:47)

Yeah, I can see it. By the way, we got a comment in YouTube. Can we change this from. This is from shaft 151 9. Can we change this to an apology episode on the Detroit Pistons? Because you keep kept insisting the Celtics and Knicks are the best in the East. Non Pistons fan here. I swear it doesn't sound like it. You know, I will say sometimes guys were just asking questions, you know, by the way, wondering by the way, because I just want to talk about Jalen Brown and the Boston Celtics. That's absolutely the way I do. That is, hey, are they actually secretly the best team in the East?

Esperahenny (27:24)

Right.

Dave DeForest (27:24)

Well, maybe not.

Esperahenny (27:26)

I will, I will say also I think there is a big, you'll find a trend in conversations for teams like this. Even last year with the Oklahoma City Thunder, who had not done it before. Exactly. It's the whole haven't done it before mentality when you don't prove it, when you don't have a history there of experience. Most people, most schmucks like Dave and I will come on here and say, well, they have to prove it and I think the Pistons have to prove it still.

Dave DeForest (27:55)

It's one look. It's one of the cliche things about like what we do that is honestly true because there's plenty of teams that have good look at the Cleveland Cavaliers. Yeah, man, they were great last year in the regular season, but they have, they weren't the best team in the East. They weren't the best team in the East. So you know, I think that the regular season is great and like we have been giving this team a lot of pats on the head because they've taken a huge leap this year. And, and I don't think this is their ceiling, by the way. I think this is a team that, that will be a perennial Eastern Conference finalist because they have Cade Cunningham and Jalen Durant. They have so much talent. And then the timeline, they're only, they're.

Esperahenny (28:37)

Only two and a half games back of the Thunder for the best record in the league.

Dave DeForest (28:40)

Right.

Esperahenny (28:41)

You know. Yeah. And I know the Thunder have been stumbling recently so that, that Kind of adds to this whole thing. But when you talk about like futures and long term building out your team, the Pistons have it very, very good because Duran is now an all star caliber player. Kate is now an MVP caliber player. And even if Ivy didn't work out or hasn't worked out yet, you still have a Sar Thompson, you still have Ron Holland. Guys who like. Right. Maybe can become really good players for you as well. And the flexibility and cap space and picks. Right. We just talked about the fact that they can go out and get Michael Porter Jr. And it wouldn't even hurt them really. Right.

Dave DeForest (29:18)

Yeah.

Esperahenny (29:19)

That's the level of flexibility that the Pistons have when it comes to their future to that point. Also, I do want us to get our praise for last year because I, I called the Pistons making a leap last year and I just want, you know, the receipts have to be there.

Dave DeForest (29:34)

You know, I will get you some Pistons team gear in the mail. I'm sure for that one. Appreciate it.

Esperahenny (29:38)

All right.

Dave DeForest (29:39)

And we got a, we got a good question here. King of Fools from, from Discord. I need help every time. My favorite team, and by the way, favorite spelled with a U, so I'm assuming a commonwealth country here. My favorite team misses a shot. I hate them. And when they hit them, I love them. And I'm becoming unstable. Need advice asap. Look, I'll tell you, your favorite team hates you. That's actually what it is. Hey, I don't know how old they are. I, you know, that's a good question. I'll say this. I, I used to be, as a, as a kid, I was such a very passionate sports fan. Not in a like yelling at people or arguing with people sort of way, but you know, like I was passionate in that when Roger Craig fumbled the football in the NFC championship game in 1990. Yeah. Because Steve Young was left handed and Joe Montana was right handed and it was a weird handoff and he fumbled and it ended the three peat.

Esperahenny (30:38)

I cried. Yeah.

Dave DeForest (30:40)

Went win when Michael Jordan and my bulls won the first title in 91. I mean, I cried with them. So I used to be like very into it, but then I replaced that as a coach. Absolute psychopath in rooting for my team while I'm coaching them. I mean, leaning on one foot with every single jump shot. You know, I mean, just doing everything. So I actually think like part of enjoying sports is embracing that instability. Right. I love them and hate them and it's sort of like I go into a book if I'm reading fiction. I, I Suspend reality. I'm gonna exist in that reality. I think it's fun, right? Like, we talk about sports as an escape and of course we know, like, we are all looking for escapes every single day now. But I think that that's part of the, the fun part is that, yeah, man, your team hates you.

Esperahenny (31:37)

Yeah. And you know what? For some sports fans, and I, I say this as a guy who grew up being a Toronto Raptors fan, and if you look at sports fans in general from Toronto, they are very. I guess they've had a traumatic history because of the Maple Leafs. I'm not a Maple Leafs fan. I'm not a big hockey guy in general, but Maple Leafs fandom has a lot of trauma to it. Blue Jays fandom, even though they won the World Series twice in the 90s, has a level of trauma to it because of the amount of times they had opportunities and didn't. So sports fandom in general is about heartbreak. And when you embrace that level of it, when you accept the fact that it's like, hey, you are going to win some and you're going to lose some, there will be an ease to which you accept every shot made and miss. Also, age is a big thing because when I was a kid, when I was even like When I was 16, 17, I lived and breathed for every shot made, every game, every transaction, etc. Etc. If the Raptors were to pick someone up, I'd be like, oh, this is life changing. PJ Tucker is on the Toronto Raptors now. That doesn't apply anymore. I, I had that, I had that feeling when the Blue Jays made it to the World Series this year. It was like my fan side activated for the first time in years and I could actually try and enjoy this. Unfortunately, the Dodgers, the Death Star Evil Empire, ended up winning. And, you know, it's just a, it's a perfect representation of society.

Dave DeForest (33:07)

I get, I get to be like Rob Lowe. You know, he wore the NFL hat. Yeah, I get to be like that. I, I did see my, my buddy Kirk Goldsberry had an NBA hat.

Esperahenny (33:16)

I saw that too.

Dave DeForest (33:17)

Yeah. Tim Frank, send me one of those hats, man. I'll wear that thing on the show. Okay. Before we get out of here, s. Anything else on your mind? I know we're, we're gonna record a show tonight for, you know, for Thursday morning release, but anything else top of mind before we get.

Esperahenny (33:33)

I mean, no, I think, I think overall, you know, just to kind of keep in mind as the season tracks along for everybody, this part of the Season is actually important. There are actual things that matter because the data suggests that January and February determine going in the NBA championship, like whoever is performing right now in this moment. And it's funny because the Thunder are not performing well right now. The Nuggets are dealing with injuries and etc. Etc. I think the teams that end up being the most successful in the postseason are usually the teams that end up being good in January and February. And so you look at it, the Boston Celtics have won four in a row. The Detroit Pistons are tracking along and doing things regularly. The Knicks struggling. The Thunder struggling. I don't know, it just feels like this might be predictive.

Dave DeForest (34:27)

We're in the snowball fight section of the season. Yeah. Also, before we go, I'm Gonna got a YouTube commenter OG unnamed YouTube user who said, if you want to hold receipts, Dave has a lot of making up to do for saying Cade isn't going to be a star for years.

Esperahenny (34:42)

He did apologize.

Dave DeForest (34:43)

He. I have a. I apologized. Okay. Hey, I just don't. And he quotes me. I just don't see it with Cade yet. Don't leave out the yet. I. I try not to write guys off, but the thing is, with the way that Cade came into the league, the way he was touted, I really expected more early. And part of this was injury related, which I always tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. You know, he had an ankle injury to start his NBA career and it was a bad one. So I mean, even like some of the shooting stuff with him early on, I think it. He got a little bit of a rough start, but I will say, you've got around fantastic. Well, yeah, absolutely. Well, he's come around. Okay. So, like, let's not act like the guy didn't get better because he definitely did. But I see it now.

Esperahenny (35:30)

Hey, I'll ask this. Who do you think is a player right now that you don't see it for yet that might be able to make that come around for you as well?

Dave DeForest (35:40)

I mean, it was. I would say maybe Scotty Barnes, but it's all about his offense, right?

Esperahenny (35:45)

Sure.

Dave DeForest (35:45)

And it's just not there. I mean, Scotty Barnes is a very good player, but I just like him being an all star to me. Like borderline all Star, I would say. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Esperahenny (35:58)

We have, like, I don't.

Dave DeForest (35:59)

You know what I mean? But no, I mean, from a talent perspective.

Esperahenny (36:01)

Right.

Dave DeForest (36:02)

Like, to be a borderline all star for him is Right. But the offensive part of his game. So I. And I Just don't see that coming.

Esperahenny (36:09)

Yeah, I think. I think the thing with Scotty, it's. It's sort of. And there will be Raptors fans who hate this. It's a little bit Bam out of Bioe where it's like, right, He. He provides such a baseline for everything because of what he is as a defender and a rebounder and a guy who, like, wins minutes consistently, but the offense has not gotten to the point where people. And bam is also a very talented passer, much like Scotty Barnes is a talented passer. So that's how they survive on the offensive end. But scoring. Right. Scoring output is the huge thing for him. And we see, by the way, there's.

Dave DeForest (36:41)

Plenty of guys that I've missed on a ton of guys. Yeah. Plenty of times. I also. I loved Perry Ellis iii. Right.

Esperahenny (36:50)

I mean, when I was.

Dave DeForest (36:51)

Let me. Full disclosure. I thought he was gonna be good.

Esperahenny (36:53)

Yeah. I was watching.

Dave DeForest (36:55)

Or Perry Jones.

Esperahenny (36:56)

Sorry, I can't even remember. I. I think I was. Yeah, Perry Jones. Perry Jones was there. Great jobs, great. Went in Europe and played some great basketball.

Dave DeForest (37:04)

Good. I don't know why I said Perry Ellis, by the way, but I. You know, but also I saw Jalen Brown and. And saw this vision of Jalen Brown.

Esperahenny (37:11)

I don't know.

Dave DeForest (37:12)

Like, this is. When you do this every single day. The hits and misses, I can't keep track of them. Yeah, I. I've. I think about the Cade. Miss all the time, though, because the guy has been that good. And this is now a season and a half of this. This isn't like I'm just eating crow here. Like, I. I ate crow all last year, too.

Esperahenny (37:30)

I. I will say the guy right now, for me that's kind of doing that is Keonte George. Because I wasn't that high on him.

Dave DeForest (37:36)

No, actually, Keonte is a guy that I was low on, too. I was saying, you know what?

Esperahenny (37:40)

I.

Dave DeForest (37:40)

He just gets hot sometimes.

Esperahenny (37:42)

Yeah.

Dave DeForest (37:44)

This shooting improvement seems to be pretty real. One more question before we go from. From our guy who called me out on. On the cave thing. I like that Dave will own it, which is. Thank you for the compliment. But also, he asked, do you think Scotty Barnes will be all NBA wants? And so much of it has to.

Esperahenny (38:03)

Do with the 665 game rule.

Dave DeForest (38:04)

That's it. If that goes away, I would lean.

Esperahenny (38:08)

No. Yeah. But I. I think that probably doesn't end up going away. You know, maybe it does. Who knows? But, like, there this season, he has a good chance because there's no Tatum, a bunch of guys are not eligible. Like there's actually an opportunity for him to end up sneaking in there because of that type of stuff. So yeah, who knows?

Dave DeForest (38:27)

Awesome. Well, if you were here with us on YouTube, thank you so much for hanging out. If you haven't joined the Discord, please do. We're, we're having fun. We've been watching games there together. Obviously a lot of just discussion about stuff happening in the NBA and please leave us a five star review wherever you listen to this podcast because I think it's important I see the, I see the good ones and I ignore the bad ones. So, you know, just, just leave good ones. Anyway, thanks to S for hanging out. Thank you guys for listening. I'm Dave Defor and this has been NBA Daily Morning Shoot Around.

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