Pacers advance to Conference Finals + Thunder survive Jokić

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily Episode: Pacers Advance to Conference Finals + Thunder Survive Jokić Release Date: May 14, 2025

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1. Indiana Pacers Seal Eastern Conference Finals Berth

Overview: The Indiana Pacers have clinched their spot in the Eastern Conference Finals by defeating the Cleveland Cavaliers in a five-game series. Hosts Dave DuFour and Zena Keda delve into the Pacers' consistent performance and the Cavaliers' struggles during the playoffs.

Key Discussions:

• Consistency and Team Play:

  • Zena Keda [02:36]: "They deserve it. Dave I think if you're looking at all the teams in this playoffs, who is the most consistent to what they look like during the regular season? It's Indiana."
  • The Pacers maintained their regular-season strategy of strong ball distribution, averaging about 30 assists per game, which translated effectively into the playoffs.

• Cavaliers' Challenges:

  • Dave DuFour [02:36]: "The Cavs get off to this great start... but the Pacers got more guys that were playoff players."
  • The Cavaliers faced significant injuries, including Darius Garland and Evan Mobley, impacting their performance and ability to sustain momentum.

• Player Performance:

  • Zena Keda [05:15]: Highlighted Tyrese Halliburton’s and Andrew Nemhard’s contributions, emphasizing balanced scoring and effective ball movement.
  • Dave DuFour [05:15]: Praised Halliburton's 31 points and Pascal Siakam's 21 points, contrasting them with Garland's inconsistent performances.

• Future Implications for Cavaliers:

  • Dave DuFour [13:14]: Speculated on the Cavaliers' potential moves during the summer, considering their strong roster but recent disappointing playoff finish.
  • Zena Keda [15:23]: Discussed the Cavaliers' strategic position and the likelihood of retaining their current team structure despite challenges.

2. Oklahoma City Thunder's Resilient Performance Against Denver Nuggets

Overview: The Oklahoma City Thunder managed to survive a high-scoring game against Nikola Jokić and the Denver Nuggets, taking a 3-2 series lead. Hosts analyze the Thunder's strategies, key performances, and potential outcomes moving forward.

Key Discussions:

• Thrilling Game Recap:

  • Andrew Schlecht [18:38]: "It's all you can ask for as an NBA fan, like to be in the building for a game like that where it's hanging in the balance."
  • The game featured back-and-forth action, with both teams showcasing exceptional skills, particularly Jokić's 44 points.

• Lou Dort’s Impact:

  • Dave DuFour [19:57]: "Lou Dort was incredible."
  • Dort played a pivotal role in the Thunder’s comeback, hitting crucial three-pointers that shifted the game's momentum.

• Team Growth and Strategy:

  • Zena Keda [20:31]: "OKC can get it done in these clutch moments... they've become a better team throughout this series."
  • Emphasized the Thunder's improved teamwork and ability to execute under pressure, contrasting with their previous season's performance.

• Defensive Tactics Against Jokic:

  • Zena Keda [25:20]: "Denver is like zapping power out of OKC. How are they going to respond?"
  • Discussed Denver’s strategic use of the zone defense and Oklahoma City's response through motion and shot variance.

• Looking Ahead to Game 7:

  • Dave DuFour [32:46]: "Is this going to go back to OKC or we are going seven?"
  • The hosts anticipate a potential Game 7, highlighting the importance of both teams adapting their strategies to secure victory.

• Jokić’s Outstanding Performance:

  • Andrew Schlecht [33:14]: "He was giving everything."
  • While praising Jokić’s individual brilliance, the hosts noted the importance of team support to complement his efforts.

3. Strategic Insights and Future Projections

Overview: The hosts provide deeper strategic analyses of both the Pacers-Cavaliers and Thunder-Nuggets series, offering projections and highlighting areas for team improvements.

Key Discussions:

• Cavaliers' Potential Summer Moves:

  • Zena Keda [11:25]: "They got some gaps that they need to fill, particularly on their wings."
  • Identified weaknesses in the Cavaliers' roster that could be addressed during the offseason to enhance team performance.

• Thunder’s Offensive Strategies:

  • Andrew Schlecht [25:31]: "The Thunder need to get back to like their bread and butter, which is winning the 50-50 balls."
  • Emphasized the importance of maintaining possession battles and leveraging their strengths to counter Denver’s tactics.

• Defense Against Denver's Zone:

  • Zena Keda [30:45]: "They were finally doing the swing swing again that you saw them do all season."
  • Analyzed how Oklahoma City cracks Denver’s zone defense through effective ball movement and shooting.

• Future Matchups:

  • Zena Keda [27:43]: "If you love basketball, this is your series."
  • Anticipated intense future games, especially if the series extends to seven games, promising high-level basketball action.

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Notable Quotes:

• Zena Keda [02:36]: "They deserve it... they're efficient, and staying true to who they are."
• Dave DuFour [05:15]: "The connectivity that we saw all season long with the Cavs did not show up in this moment when they needed the most."
• Andrew Schlecht [18:38]: "It's all you can ask for as an NBA fan... Jokic hits this off balance three..."
• Zena Keda [20:31]: "They could share that load... they stayed within character of themselves and execute and get the win."
• Andrew Schlecht [33:14]: "Jokić is incredible. But that stat shows that you need your teammates."

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Conclusion: The episode of The Athletic NBA Daily provides an in-depth analysis of the Indiana Pacers' advancement to the Eastern Conference Finals and the Oklahoma City Thunder's resilience against the Denver Nuggets. Hosts Dave DuFour and Zena Keda, along with guest Andrew Schlecht, offer strategic insights, player performances, and future projections, making it a must-listen for NBA enthusiasts looking to stay informed on pivotal playoff developments.

Transcript

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[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, the Pacers are in the Eastern Conference finals finishing off the Cleveland Cavaliers in five and Oklahoma City has a three games two lead over the Denver Nuggets. We got Andrew Schleicht here to talk about it after the game. Wow. We are moving along in the playoffs. Zena Keda I'm Dave Dufour. Zena the the Pacers are the first team to make the conference finals. What do you think? Just initial gut reaction to the Pacers making a second consecutive conference finals.

[Zena Keda]

They deserve it. Dave I think if you're looking at all the teams in this playoffs, who is the most consistent to what they look like during the regular season? It's Indiana. They were an offensive team focused in terms of being able to get the ball around. They averaged about 30 assists during the regular season. They're doing the same thing in the playoffs. They have their starters distributing the ball, distributing their amount of field goals are making. They're doing the same thing in the playoffs. Like, they have not veered away from what got them success in the postseason. Now some teams have picked up some new skills in the postseason, which is great, but a lot of teams have completely changed their identity and it's been their downfall, including the team that Indiana just took care of in the Cleveland Cavaliers. So I look at Indiana and I say shout out to you for staying consistent, being efficient, and staying true to who you are and finding success in that, because that's exactly what's gotten them here.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I, I think, look, if you, if you were going to look back at just this series, you would say that the Pacers and the Cavs were much closer than their records look like, right? The Cavs get off to this great start. They have multiple 15 or three. Right. 15 game win streaks or something like that. I mean, at least two. I can't remember if there was a third one that made it to there 12. Think it was 12 games it made it to. And the Pacers got off to a rough start, but then they finished the season 34 and third 14. Andrew Nemhart comes back. All of a sudden that defense makes so much sense. And, and in my opinion, the way that the Cavs kind of went into the playoffs was so different than the way that their regular season had gone up to that point. You know, they were blowing a lot of games in March. They started picking up injuries, right? They go into this series, they pick up some injuries to key players. Darius Garland misses a couple games. DeAndre Hunter's out. Evan Mobley was out. And then you see in this game, you know, last night, man, they've really missed Evan Mobley and, and they missed him being 100% and, and I mean, he made a big difference, but it wasn't enough to, to keep him in the series. Yeah, Cavs kind of ran out of steam, but Indiana won this series, right? They were the better team. I thought they were the better team. The. In. In pretty much every single game, even the one. I thought there was a lot of stuff that was positive for Indiana outside of Tyrese Halbert and having a really awful game, but they just wound up having more guys that were playoff players. Zena, you know, Ty Jerome just didn't. Didn't bring it. And I think that what we're seeing throughout the playoffs is about having, you know, do you have six guys you trust?

[Zena Keda]

Facts, Facts. I literally can tell you the numbers. I mean, we can go down the list of the actual players, but let's look at from team perspective. The Cavs had every opportunity to get this done. It's just a matter of who could execute in those opportunities. The Cavs attempted 47 more free throws than the Pacers, and they made 39 more. That's awesome. But then when it came down to their actual scoring, do you know that Donovan Mitchell, in this series, attempted 125 field goals? The next highest number, 57 attempts. On the Indiana side, it was Tyrese Halliburton, Miles Turner, Andrew Nemhard, Pascal Siakam. All were at about 100 or more, evenly distributed, right? It became this ISO show for the Cleveland Cavaliers. And again, that's not what got them there. It was ball movement, it was pace, it was running. And of course, yes, the injuries definitely made an impact, but they were healthy in this game with their backs against the wall. And again, what you saw was the game had to be carried by Donovan Mitchell. And I got to give him credit because that man was exhausted in this game and still was making tough buckets, was making sure that he made up for the three free throws that he lost that he missed at the end of the game. Got that big bucket to keep the gate, keep it open for them. And still Darius Garland goes on the other end of the court, makes a foul, gets Indiana back to the free throw line. There was just so many moments in which they could not execute in the opportunities that they had.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I mean, they obviously missed Garland, right? Like Garland in his fourth quarters, he. He really. He won him a lot of games, games that they had leads, right? He would come in and. And slam the door shut. And on the other side, right, Tyrese Halberton has a monster, monster game. Never looked tired, really, in the series, right? Like, you think about how. How injured he was last season, how. How he looked injured to start this season and was inconsistent. He didn't really look tired. He had 31 points. Pascal Siakam had 21. Halliburton getting off the ball and being able to move off the ball with Nemhart on the other side, who is still a threat to score. I mean, that's. That's the difference, right? And Garland had maybe been 100%. There's a world in which, you know, he's able to provide the same sort of release for. For Cleveland. But the truth is, they. I mean, the Pacers kind of had the Cavs number all year and Garland was a big piece of that because I, I do think that the size and the activity of the Pacers really bothers him. I mean, he, you know, he's a small guard and he kind of plays small.

[Zena Keda]

We've been talking about depth all, all year long, right? This is going to be the biggest test when it comes to the playoffs is who can play small ball well, who can shoot threes and who's got some serious depth. And you saw that absolutely in the backcourt of Indiana in Tyrus Albert and be able to play off of Andrew Nemhard, who required just as much attention on defense as a Tyrese Halliburton did so they could share that load. Whereas Donovan Mitchell, it was too predictable of an offense. You knew he was going to be the focal point and so Indiana could really kind of focus in on that. I don't want to discount just how versatile Indiana's defense was. As if it was just Donovan they had to card because Evan Mobley was huge in this game too. But then that shifts my attention to the depth again because the big men for Indiana showed up in a way that all year long I was one of them. I talked about the two headed snake in the back court and the two headed snake in the front court for the Cavs. And in this case it was the two headed snake in the front court and back court for Indiana that showed up. Myles Turner hitting some big shots. And then again you could go down the roster. Even Chris Bryant making some really big plays down the stretch. I mean they had, they showed up, they executed, and again they stayed within character of themselves. Like you look at the, the way they distributed the ball in this series. Andrew Nemhard, Tyrese Halliburton. Between the two of them, 139 assists, Donovan Mitchell and the next best assister on the team was Max Druse. 70. Yeah, like the connectivity that we saw all season long with, with the Cavs did not show up in this moment when they needed the most out of their players. And I think that is so indicative of why Indiana can go far is because they could. In the moment of pressure, in a moment of trying to end someone else's season, such a big game on the road could stay true to who they were and execute and get the win. It was, it was really impressive by the Pacers. And honestly, it's going to take them far. We'll see.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm glad you mentioned Miles Turner because he's a little bit of a forgotten guy there, but he might have been the key to them win in the entire series. Number one, his ability to hit above the break threes. It just makes so much sense for the way they play offense. Right? So that's right. He gets to trail the play when they're in transition and he. He'll just bomb away. But the other thing is he played bigger this season. You know, he played bigger, has played bigger so far in the playoffs. He's been more aggressive offensively in the paint, drawing foul. So anyway, hats off to the Pacers. And on defense, well, yeah, defense, but rim pressure is amazing at blocking shots. Right, but hats off to the Pacers. We don't know who they're going to play yet, although it does look likely that they're going to meet the Knicks. But you know what we do around here when the team gets eliminated, we have to start thinking about their summer. And the Cleveland Cavaliers are a very interesting team. They had the best record in the Eastern conference. They were the 1 seed. This is a disappointing finish, but you have four really good players. I mean, Donovan Mitchell is, you know, a perennial all star, all NBA level guy. Evan Mobley just won defense player of the year. Do you run it back just like it is? Or Xena? Did you see some warts in this playoff run that you think that maybe need they need to address?

[Zena Keda]

They got some gaps. They definitely have some gaps that they need to fill, particularly on their wings. I think DeAndre Hunter joining the team mid season was a positive, but they didn't have enough time to really integrate him as being someone that could. In the moments that Donovan is putting up 125 field goal attempts, DeAndre Hunter to come in and kind of take off that load like he was doing in Atlanta for Trae Young. I actually think that they've got the pieces, especially with Darius Garland. This is his real first run at it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Zena Keda]

Like in the sense that last year he was dealing with some injuries and he wasn't able to play the full season like now, he knows, and we've seen this, whether it's, you know, Anthony Edwards or Shea Gildis Alexander or. And I'm not comparing him to those players, but we've seen it where players need to go through this in order to know what it's like, in order to know what it takes to get there. Donovan's been through this. He's literally been to the playoffs every single year of his career, which is crazy. But it's. Darius hasn't, Evan hasn't, Jared Allen hasn't they all. Now they see what it takes, I think it's worth running it back, but you definitely have to fill out your three point shooting because there was no. There was no support out there. There wasn't enough, excuse me, out there for them. And they've got to find another release valve for Donovan the way that T.J. mcConnell could come in for Ty, Tyrese, Halliburton, they got to get another release valve.

[Dave Dufour]

It was supposed to be tied to Rome, you know, and it was all year. But the lights of the playoffs are really, really bright. And I think a lot of us probably questioned whether Ty Jerome was going to be able to do the exact same thing he did in a regular season, you know, come playoff time. It just. You got to see it usually from these guys.

[Zena Keda]

What about you? Do you think they run it back?

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, I. I guess that they probably would. I do think that Jason Tatum's Achilles injury is going to take him out all. Probably all of next season. And, you know, let's just say, like, the Celtics are going to have a very interesting summer because they were already talking about making some changes due to that giant payroll that they have coming. You know, that Bill is going to come next season. So I think that, yeah, you know, if you're the Cavs, you probably listen. You have to do due diligence and you have to look around. They have to kick the tires on Giannis, for instance. Like, you just. You have to do those things. I don't think that they need to do any sort of massive move, wholesale change. I'm with you. I think you try to get the bench better. You sell the idea, hey, look. Look at the run we just had. Come be a part of it. You know, there's a guy that's in la, right, that maybe would like to come home and would fit right in as another playmaker. And it just seems like if. If a guy who had played 20 seasons was going to wind down the last few years of his career, go into the Eastern Conference, where you don't have a lot of talent, you don't have a lot of stars, you've got an easier path to the finals, and you kind of have a team sitting there that is.

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[Dave Dufour]

You could plug and play on. So I, you know, yeah, we just start those rumors. What do you think? Like, LeBron, LeBron to Cleveland 2.0. I mean, that would be fun, right? But I, I don't know. I honestly, I think that they're in a weird spot and this is going to be a crazy summer because, yeah, everyone's going to be active. You know, I think we all assume Giannis is moving and we all, we know Katie is going to move and who knows what Boston's going to do.

[Zena Keda]

So I'm looking at how they finished these last five years going back to the 2020 season. Even go back to, yeah, 20, 20, 19, 2016 season five in the league, fifth or fourth, then third, then two years at number two and then finishing at one with the 64 and 18 season. They're ripe. They're due like they are in prime position and I can imagine a lot of teams will see that as a great destination.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, a lot of players, right. Like they built it. They built it from the ground.

[Zena Keda]

Coach of the year Kenny Atkinson, like, come on. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

So maybe it's next season for them. Yeah, Year one not too bad, but the Pacers might be a buzzsaw. Guys. Stick around after the break. We got Andrew Schlecket live after OKC picks up a huge win.

[Zena Keda]

Foreign.

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[Dave Dufour]

The Oklahoma City Thunder survive an insane Nicola Jokic game to go up three games to two. Andrew Schlect joining us, still in shock from that game. What was it like being in the building for the last five minutes of that game? It was just back and forth. Big shot, big shot, big play. Must have been fun.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's, it's all you can ask for as an NBA fan, like to be in the building for a game like that where it's hanging in the balance. You have literally the number one and number two guys in mvp. You know, trading shot for shot. You know, Jokic, Jokic hits this off balance three with minute 40 left to tight at 103. 103. And it's, it felt like this is anybody's game after that one went in.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And so it was, it was really fun. I mean, the crowd in OKC was wild. You know, I had friends texting me that people were chanting in the streets, okc, OKC going out here. I mean, everybody was so hyped. This was the game they needed, you know, a year ago, A year ago they lost game five in this building to Dallas and that really effectively ended their season. You know, they go and they end up losing game six in a heartbreaker. But you know, this is a, is a big game and you don't want to lose it at home. And so it felt like most of the night it felt like this was not OKC's night. They turned it around about the eight minute mark of the fourth quarter is when they turned it around and it looked like Denver was pretty gassed and OKC had a lot more to give during those moments. So, you know, they ended the game 28 to 13 in the final eight minutes of the game. And you know that it was, it was big. And I'm sure we're going to talk about Lou Dort, but like Dort was really the catalyst to start that run.

[Dave Dufour]

A tale of two Dorts. Honestly, like, Lou Dort went from me saying, wow, they can't go back to Lou Dort. Why is he starting the second half of this game? They can't go back to Lou Dort, to hitting the three biggest shots of the game. That gets OKC back in it. And look, this is again, Mark Dagnault. I'll apologize for. For questioning it. This is why you stick with your guys, Xena. This is the old ball coach thing, right? You stick with your guys and it pay days off. And Dort was incredible.

[Zena Keda]

I think also, like, this is the second game in a row that we've seen Lou Dort a part of it. OKC get the boogeyman off their back and kind of mature in a way. I'm happy that, Andrew, you brought up last season and how it ended, because this is the moment where you're seeing the shift. You're seeing the fact that OKC can get it done in these clutch moments. And of course, you're seeing it against another monster provider for their team. In a joke. It's right. Last time it was Doncic, but now it's Nikola Jokic doing unbelievable things. 44 points, 15 rebounds, five assists. And he's doing trick shots to keep his team in this. And yet they were so focused. I think Dwight Howard asked Jalen Williams on Inside the NBA about, like, how do you guys use his energy? Shay go just Alexander's energy towards the end of the game, and I was like, I don't even know if it was just Shay. Like, this entire team looks so laser focused at the end of the game. And this is a sign of where they are now, how they've shifted. Like, is that. Does it feel as if they've like. Like babies grown up in front of your eyes, Andrew?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, it does a little bit. Because, I mean, you look back at game one, where not only the players but the coaching staff too, kind of felt like they gave game one away.

[Zena Keda]

Correct, made the mistakes. Yep.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And, you know, even they've been growing throughout this series, and it hasn't always looked pretty. It hasn't always, you know, gone their way, but they've become a better team, you know, throughout this series. And that's. And that's what you needed to see, honestly, because what it came down to for them was intangibles. You know, they had 68 wins. They had the markers of a championship team, except their. Their age was the only marker that didn't say, like, they're gonna win it because it hasn't really been done by a team that's. That's this age. And so I think that, you know, seeing them get this in game experience, in series experiences, is big for them. And doing it against a guy in Nikola Jokic who found his three ball, you know, he had 13 points in the fourth quarter. He played all 12 minutes of the fourth quarter. They needed everything from. From Jokic tonight. And, you know, they didn't quite get enough in this one. And it is a good test for okc because I thought, you know, Jamal Murray had it going in the third quarter where he was on a heater, and it felt like it was about over, and they felt a little defeated. You could feel it in the building. You could see it on their faces. But honestly, it was the move that everyone was begging Mark Degnalt not to do. And I want to go back to Lou because they were begging him. I was just tweeting out lineups, you know, just like, hey, yeah, here's the five guys that are in the game. And my mentions are just a disaster with people saying, like, Mark's an idiot. Can't play Door. Why is Door still in the game? Why is he in there? And he goes and he rattles off three threes in a row to, like, bring the Thunder back into this game. Like, and it injected and shut up the haters. Yeah. And, you know, Mark talked about it as. As if, like, like they're a family. Like, when somebody's, like, hurting in your family or somebody's celebrating in your family, like, it brings an energy to your group. And he said it's the same thing for this team is that when they see Lou hitting those threes, like, it just brings life and it brings energy, you know, to the entire group. You know, Mark said that he doesn't bet against Lou. He said it's that simple. I don't bet against Lou.

[Dave Dufour]

I told you he was going to have a great Luke. I knew he was going to have a great line for Lou.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Absolutely. You knew it was coming. I knew it was coming.

[Dave Dufour]

That's so good.

[Zena Keda]

I love the fact. Oh, go ahead.

[Dave Dufour]

No, go ahead.

[Zena Keda]

No. I was talking to Dave earlier, Andrew, about how these. Denver has seemingly, along their playoff journey, picked up all of these talents and skills from their opponents. You saw it in the Clippers series where they became this defensive powerhouse that was getting deflections, and they had these veterans stepping up the way you expected. James, Harden, Kawhi to go off. And now you're looking at this series, and I even look at the offensive rebounds, there were possessions where Denver was getting 3, 2, 34 offensive rebounds in a possession. 16 to 8 was the final number there. That is usually OKC's thing. They use their youth, they use their length, they use their athleticism to get to the ball, get those 50, 50 balls and give themselves more opportunities. Denver ended with 97 field goal attempts versus just 82 for OKC. All of these things feel as if Denver is like zapping power out of okc. How do you think, ok, he's going to respond to that in terms of. Are they looking at it like, you know, we're good. We don't need to try and match what they're doing in order to beat us. Like, it's good they're up, they're playing at our pace, or do they feel like we need to step it up to where we were during the regular season that got us in this position?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, no, it's a good point. I mean, the Thunder won the possession battle consistently during the regular season, and that's how they won games. It's almost like a shots on goal kind of thing.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You know, and they. They did not win that battle tonight. Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's. It's a good stat to point out because the Thunder needed good shooting in order to beat that, and I don't think that's something they can count on from night to night. We've seen it like they have gone cold in games. So you're looking at game six. Like the Thunder need to get back to like their bread and butter, which is winning the 50, 50 balls, you know, getting those extra possessions because they can't count on their guys making threes all, you know, all the time, you know.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, that's what turned the game around for them down the stretch, right? Like the, the energy that they had to close the game. And a lot of that showed because they were getting to those balls. I, I want to. I do want to talk a little bit about the way that they, they played down the stretch where they played five out. I, I thought that was interesting as the Nuggets started to lose momentum and, and lose energy. Right. I mean, Jokic, we know about the minutes load that he's playing. They basically have five guys that they can trust, and one of them happens to be Michael Porter Jr. Who was absolutely atrocious in the game, gave him nothing. But I thought it was interesting that after getting killed a little bit, Jalen Williams is not the guy you want guarding Jokic. I thought it was interesting to go to him and to try to space them out. And it worked. Not only were they getting better looks on offense, but they were just so much faster to the ball. You think that game six, maybe we see a little bit more of that five out to try to, you know, wear them out even sooner.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that. That was kind of their bread and butter all year and has been actually for years now.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Playing five out and, you know, Shay talked about it. I was, I was asking him about the specific play where the ball hits the corner to J Dub where it's just extra pass, extra pass that gets J Dub. That three that I think was like, that was a very, very crucial shot. And he said it's. He's like, nothing that we're doing is remarkable. Like, this is all just stuff that we've been doing all season. And there's no, like, crazy play that's happening. It's just, he's. Shay said, I hit a double team. I swung it. Lou swung it again and we got an open 3. He said it's not, it's just, it's muscle memory stuff for them.

[Dave Dufour]

Gordon in no man's land. Right, like.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And yeah, Lou makes the right decision, which is I. And the reason that he was, was because this is a, this is an interesting game because in game four, there was like, almost like no points in the paint. I think that, you know, I think the Nuggets had six made shots in the paint. Thunder were somewhere around that too. Both teams had 50 points in the paint tonight. So, like, they. Both teams were able to kind of turn, you know, game four on its head a little bit. And they both scored at will in the paint. And so I think once it got down, like they needed to stop the Thunder from getting into the paint. And when you do that, like, it's a trade off. Like, you're always making trade offs. So it's like we're going to stop. We're going to stop the drive. Well, now it's swing, swing, swing. And like, those shots haven't always fallen. I mean, Jada airballed a three. Not too, you know, not that long before that one. And I just trust in your guys and continuing to. To kind of do what you do. And they, you know, made that shot and that, I mean, that was huge. And also Shea ice the game with a three, a shot that he has been hunting for several games now. All series, he's been trying to make it happen. Like he. It feels like he's almost like searching for his moment. In the playoffs, you know, of trying to like manufacture like this, like almost like MJ Kobe like moment. And he finally got that shot to fall tonight, which was completely iced the game. I think that that's what ended it was. He said it was good to see that one go down because he has been searching for that particular shot, you know, this whole series.

[Zena Keda]

You know what? I did not expect to hear as much this year. We've been talking about this all playoffs long is insert team has really struggled against this zone. It's just like we keep hearing it. The zone has been such an issue. And the thing about it is, I said it in the last part on Monday's pod is like the way to beat the zone, at least to be smart back then, the reason why they didn't play zone is because they could pass out of it. They could play really well through it. And I feel like tonight you really saw that from okc. Like they were finally doing the swing swing again that you saw them do all season. And that allowed that zone to completely break down. Because not only were they passing well, they were also doing the other way to break out of a zone, which is shooting them out of it. And the good news is that even if you can't shoot out of it in game six, you're getting that motion back, that activity back, which is what also disrupts a zone. Now Denver's gonna keep trying to rock with that zone. Cause they're older and they need the rest in game. You know, did Mark Dagnal or anybody say anything about that zone and how OKC is gonna try to get them out of it sooner? Or do they feel like, okay, we figured it out this game, let's let them do their thing, let them use that as a crutch and we'll just exploit it next time?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I think the Thunder have been able to exploit that zone throughout the series, but it's a shot variance game for them. Yeah, there have been times where it's looked really good. And it's because they're making shots, you know, with. With Lou Dort, like they were fine leaving him in game four. That's why they had to, you know, make the trade off there. But with Lou sinking those three threes like it. Yeah, the offense looks great. It's humming now, but it's.

[Zena Keda]

But it's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It is a shot variance game with the, with the zone. And I think the Thunder feel confident in that. Like, people have thrown. Teams have thrown zones at them all season, and a lot of the. The ways that they get out of it. Like you said, it's like swinging the ball. They love to get Isaiah Hartenstein in the middle of the zone and letting him be a playmaker. They like to get Shea driving and playing in the middle of the zone as well. Denver's done a good job though. Like, they've done such a good job completely closing it off completely, you know, getting those driving lanes completely closed off for him. And so it will be interesting to see how they deal with it. But it is really, it's about like, do they have the right guys in the game and are they making the shots when the ball swings to them? Because the zone, you can just destroy a zone. I mean they did that in game two, you know. Absolutely. Just dismantled them and it's because they were shooting just the lights out. So now it's. Now it's about can you have another game like that. But both these teams have just drug this game into the mud for the most part. Yeah, this is a, this is a hard fought series. If you love basketball, this is your series. Honestly, it's been a.

[Dave Dufour]

We haven't even gotten. Look, we got the. The Murray flurry in the third quarter and I thought we were going to maybe get the Murray game, you know, and he was going to come out strong. We haven't gotten the Murray game yet. They're going back to Denver. We'll put you guys on the spot before we get out of here. Is this going to go back to OKC or we are going seven? Andrew, you go first.

[Zena Keda]

Dang. Sorry. I just said what I wanted.

[Dave Dufour]

Everybody knows it's not scripted.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like I said, this is. This is a basketball lovers game. And what's better than a game seven going seven.

[Dave Dufour]

I think Jokic has this. The defense figured out. I mean he just was incredible.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He. He was very.

[Dave Dufour]

If Murray can give him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, if. We just have to mention Jokic again because he was unbelievable tonight.

[Zena Keda]

He was unreal and like that's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's going to get lost a little bit I think because. Because they didn't win the game but 44, 15 and five with two steals and the guy, he was giving everything and like toward the end of the game he. There was a lot of flopping and just him just grabbing and just try like he wanted to win so bad. He wanted this game so bad and like just go watch those last few possessions where he is.

[Zena Keda]

How many people is like ripping people off of his rebounds.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like just like he's doing everything that he can do within his power but like the truth, like you, you got to win it as a team. Jokic is incredible. But that stat, that Law Murray, I don't know if you guys have said it on the pod yet.

[Dave Dufour]

No, we haven't.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But like, but that stat, that Law Murray, can you pull that up? Dave, do you have it handy?

[Dave Dufour]

Yep, I do.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Because like that, that, that I think is really important and like really shows that you, this is a, it's a team game. And even when you're incredible, like jokic is scoring 40 plus points, like, you still need your teammates and that's where they really struggle. Tonight.

[Dave Dufour]

The playbook for beating the Nuggets make Jokic score. It's his seventh career playoff game with 40 or more points. The Nuggets dropped to two and five with the loss to OKC in those 40 point games.

[Zena Keda]

And I'll follow that up with the fact that outside of Jamal Murray, Jokic and Gordon, the only three players for the Nuggets that were above 10 points, the rest of the team combined for 7 of 32 from the floor. Yep.

[Dave Dufour]

They got three guys. It's not even five. They got three.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, well, we got three people right here. Good show, guys. We're going to get out of here. For Andrew Schleck and Zena Keda, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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