Zena Caida (1:26)

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Podcast Host / Interviewer (1:28)

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Zena Caida (1:37)

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Zena Caida and I have the pleasure of doing an NBA season preview for the Indiana Pacers with the Caitlin Cooper, creator of Basketball. She wrote one of the best blogs in basketball, period, but particularly covering hoops in Indiana. And Caitlin, how's it going?

Caitlin Cooper (1:58)

Doing well. I'm very excited for this invitation. We talked ahead of time. I've been on this show a couple of times, but I've never gotten to do it with you. So that's exciting.

Zena Caida (2:05)

I know it is exciting. I've learned so much from you in the way that you cover the game and the way that you break down the game. If anyone, if you're not already following Caitlin, you're behind the eight ball. You need to hurry up, catch up. Don't worry, I'll give you time right here. Okay, let's get into it. Because if there's any team in the NBA, Caitlin, that is having such a whiplash of off season in terms of how they're gearing up for this 2025, 2026 season, it's Indiana. You make history. Going to the NBA Finals, going toe to toe with OKC to Game 7, and in that game, losing Tyrese Haliburton to an Achilles tear, of course, we know that probably was the most impactful change on your roster, but then some could say Miles Turner leaving in the off season during free agency to the Milwaukee Bucks was also huge. In your opinion, which of those two, or maybe there was a third, was the most impactful change this off season for the Pacers?

Caitlin Cooper (3:07)

I mean, certainly the injury to Tyrese, I mean, that was a gut punch for fans and to him as well. Cause obviously he's the person that's going to be going through this and having to get healthy over the next year. But I mean, I still have people on Patreon and on my videos on YouTube that respond after every single one and they're somebody else. Say, I thought this would be easier by now, but it still hurts so much. So I, I mean, certainly that one, because I mean this, this team will still be a good basketball team. We've seen in the past. Two years ago, they went to the Eastern Conference finals and Tyrese injured his hamstring. And Andrew really had a coming out party in that series being the lead ball handler. I'm sure that they'll make adjustments, but I find it hard to think they will have the same degree of ceiling without Tyrese Halliburton because they almost had a little bit of a microcosm of this at the beginning of last season. You know, he was limited. They ended up being, I think, 10 and 15 right around the NBA cup time. And a lot of that was directly connected to the fact that he wasn't quite playing to his own individual level. The offense wasn't where they wanted it to be. There was other contributing factors as well. Their point of attack, defenders were out. Pascal got really adjusted to the system. But I just, I'm. That's very present in my mind that, you know, they still had a limited version of Tyrese and it was a little bit of a rocky start to the season. And now you're not even going to have the limited version, the gravity out there to be playing four on four more with Andrew as a lead bowl handler. So in my mind that one's a little bit more impactful. Even though the Miles one, I'm sure was, you know, quite a big surprise for the community. Not only because he left right after they went to a Game 7 of NBA Finals, but also because it was to the Milwaukee Bucks.

Zena Caida (4:38)

So you're right. Oh my gosh. Well, knowing the kind of rivalry that had been building, building between those two teams, kind of crazy. That's where he ended up. But we're going to get into how Miles Turner's center sized hole impacts this, impacts this team. But I do want to talk about the coming out party that you mentioned that Andrew Nemhart had last year. Yeah, they're probably going to be calling up the same vendors. Let's big do it bigger this year. Let's have an even bigger coming out party for him because he's going to be coming into a very impactful role going into that point guard position, running the offense, having more of the outcomes of, you know, the Indiana Pacers offense on his shoulders. So thinking about his shift to point guard, thinking about on your recent podcast with Brit Carlisle, Brit Carlisle broke news. He said that Ben Matheran should be in a starting position this year. This comes with the shift to Andrew Namhart to that point guard role. So which player on this roster you think is going to be most likely to have the biggest step forward? Because I'm teetering between either Nemhard or Matheran.

Caitlin Cooper (5:43)

The thing is with Andrew is when you look around the NBA and you think of everything that was asked of him playing next to Tyrese last year. Like you look at that series against Cleveland, Andrew was actually in most ways the starting point guard in that series. He ran more point, he ran more pick and roll than Tyrese did. But as I just mentioned, you know, he's doing a lot of it four on four. He and Miles were one of the best pick and roll combos in the NBA during that series. But that's because Okoro is guarding Tyrese out on the logo. Max Strusa's guarding Tyrese out on the logo. So when that active gravity isn't there for and running pick and roll. Plus he was their most important defender last year and he is a guy who they asked to pick up 50ft the other way. And he's the guy who gets asked to guard the other team's best player. So like if you just look at a two game miniseries that they played last year against Atlanta, like he's being asked to guard Trey Young 50ft, he's being guarded by Dyson Daniels in a lead ball handler road role. Dyson Daniels is ducking under a lot of screens. You'd be hard pressed to think of another point guard who would be asked to do that much on a nightly basis. And even if you look back to the NBA Finals like in Game 6, the Pacers made that really big adjustment where they're like, you know what, we're going to try to surprise okc. We're going to pull all that pressure back. We're going to pick them up at half court instead of three quarter court. A lot of the reason why they needed to do that is to preserve Andrew Nemhard because they knew Tyrese is coming off an injury. Andrew ran out of gas in the prior game, had some turnovers in the fourth quarter. It worked for both ways. But it's like not every game is going to be Game 5 of the NBA Finals for the Pacers, but like, how do you prevent every game from being Game 5 of the NBA Finals for Andrew Nemhard? Because he doesn't have the benefit of having himself at the two guard spot. Like Tyrese benefited from the fact that, hey, Andrew's going to guard the other team's best player. He's going to apply all this pressure and oh, by the way, when I'm getting face guarded, he can run pick and roll. Like, the Pacers don't have an Andrew Nemhard for Andrew Nemhard. And then to your point about Benedict Mather and like, this is obviously another, this will be the third time that he's been a starter for the Pacers. He had some good stretches for them as a starter in the middle of the season. Ultimately they ended up finding out that, like Benedict Matheran is a better sixth man than Aaron Neesmith and Aaron Neesmith was a better fifth starter than Benedict Matheran. But I do think that there's some ways, if you just want to look at him specifically, that he can lighten the load for Andrew and Aaron because Aaron will likely get to see more weaker defensive assignments as an offensive player. If Ben is out there. A lot of teams aren't going to put, you know, like Trae Young onto Benedict Mather and they'll put Trae Young onto Aaron. Aaron made more contested threes throughout the playoffs this year, in part because he was being guarded by smaller defenders. That's more likely to happen if Matheran's the, you know, the other starter now than if they had gone to somebody like, you know, Ben Shepard or some of the other options where maybe, maybe those guys become hiding spots instead of Aaron. So there's some benefits to be had there. And especially too, like I said, if Andrew seeing more unders, you can throw the ball to Ben. If a team switches a lot, Ben is a guy who's going to be able to get you some traction and get downhill. So.

Zena Caida (8:36)

And I love the fact that Carlisle talked about Ben Mather and being willing to change and being willing to fit the system and change into what it is that the Indiana Pacers do, which is a run and gun offense, very fast offense. It's going to be interesting to see how Andrew Nemhardt's point guard style continues into that, because you're right, we've seen him already with the ball in his hand when he had to take on the load and allow Tyrese to float off ball. But there's one person that we're forgetting about that also has played a lot of point and also has done a lot with the ball in his hand, particularly in Toronto, and that is Pascal Siakam. And I'm thinking about how Pascal Siakam now, last year it was like, who's the one? Who's the two? And a lot of folks would like to say, you know, Tyrese Albert is the one on this team because of the way that he creates, because of the gravity that he pulls from defenses. But people are like, well, Pascal Siakam is doing everything for the Pacers, whether it's scoring, whether it's defense, whether it's running up and down the floor, pulling defenses because he's running in transition, going off the rim, going. I mean, it was just. There's so much that Pascal offers this team. What are the expectations for him coming into this year now that this is his team. I just recently saw he was working out with Jerus Walker, right? Taking the, the young guys under his, his belt and kind of realizing, hey, or his wing and being like, we got to step up. What does this look like for him this season?

Caitlin Cooper (9:55)

I mean, very quietly. Like if you look at Pascal's advance numbers from last year, he had his lowest usage rate since the Raptors won a championship last year with the Pacers. In his all star year, he had like his fewest touches per 100 since his sophomore year, his fewest drives per 100. I think since he was a rookie, the Pacers did not use him near as much as a ball handler and to be initiating from the perimeter because they didn't really need him to like in their fast paced, frenetic style, random offense, a lot of times he's more somebody that's going to do like a Throw and chase, go screen and then slip, rather than he's the guy with somebody meeting him with a ball screen. That role may need to be changed a little bit because of what I just said. Like, there's not necessarily a secondary ball handler for Andrew in some of these lineups in the same way that Andrew was for Tyrese. So as you mentioned, when I did that interview with Rick, I asked him like, do you expect Pascal to have more of the ball now? And he said, yeah, I don't think it's any secret that he's going to be our closer. And also he might need to be a bring up ball handler more often. And I don't worry so much about the. The gravity aspect for Pascal because I know from watching him in Toronto, like sometimes he can play like he's a piece of paper sliding through a crack in the door. He's played with a lot of cramped spacing when he was with the Raptors and lineups, you know, with, with Scotty and Purdle and Dennis Schroeder. So I think he'll be able to adapt easily. But he's another one where it's like, because he plays so hard a lot of the times and so much gets asked of him, you really have to manage him from a stamina aspect. And that's why, like, if you look through their playoff runs like, it wasn't until game six against the Knicks that he like full on was guarding Karl Anthony Towns. It wasn't until game six against the Thunder that he was guarding Jalen Williams because in part they really value using him as a roamer defensively and what he does is like a shadow presence. But also because of some of the stuff that I just mentioned with Andrew, like, if he has to do so much more offensively now without Tyrese being out there, can he also be somebody who's taking on opposing wing options repeatedly throughout the season defensively? Like, those are all the types of things that they're going to have to monitor, like in. In a lot of respects, despite how much continuity they have. The simple thing of just plucking Tyrese out of this rotation is going to increase a lot of the burden, especially on Andrew and Pascal in particular. And what they're being asked to do.

Zena Caida (12:04)

Just goes to show you just how valuable Tyrese Haliburton is. It's funny that as you're talking, you're talking about this, the balance between the two way load. We're right now doing a basketball 100 series on the athletic NBA daily and we're going through the decades of all these best players and, and we're talking about how in the 70s and the 60s, being a two way player was like not an option. Like you needed to be able to be good on both sides of the ball. And so it's interesting that as the evolution of the game has gone on and people become more skilled, it's usually on one side of the ball. And so how rare it is to have the likes of an Andrew Nemhardt that can, you know, do the balance of both there. Let's talk a little bit about the center position. Right. We've already alluded to the fact that Miles Turner goes to the Bucks in the off season and it results in this kind of carousel of centers now being available to the Pacers. You've got Isaiah Jackson and James Wiseman coming back from Achilles injuries in the off season. You acquire Jay Huff from the Memphis Grizzlies and you resign Tony Bradley and Jay Huff, I remember covering him when I was a Santa Cruz warriors sideline reporter in the G League. Definitely can put up some points. We saw that he had an impact in Memphis as well. Decent numbers, 50, 40, almost 80 from the field in about 11 minutes. But not Miles Turner. Like, let's just be very frank about it. Not the same consistency in terms of spreading the floor, being able to pick and pop on the pick and roll. Just Miles's gravity himself as a center. This is going to be interesting in how these players fit in this role. And I'm curious, from your perspective, how do you think the Pacers are going to approach this carousel and is there a possibility they could trade for a starting five at some point during the season?

Caitlin Cooper (13:50)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's mainly going to be like a couple years ago they already had to do this because they had Isaiah, Jalen, Smith, Goga, Daniel Tice, all kind of sharing the Backup 5 spot for a brief period. But the expectations were a lot different. Like over the back end of that season, they had kind of pulled a lot of their main guys. So they were literally just trading off between Isaiah and Jalen every other night. In terms of who was starting, I don't expect to see a repeat of that, but I do think that there's a case where like not to bring up the same team again, but maybe you're playing the Toronto Raptors in the NBA cup and they run a lot of four or five pick and roll and you're like, you know, we'd really rather switch those actions with Pascal and Isaiah Jackson Maybe that's a night when you start Isaiah Jackson and maybe you also like that Isaiah can really add rim running and maybe that puts Jakob Pearl in a position to be having to get up and down the floor a little bit more. And you like what Isaiah can do as a lob threat in that matchup for Andrew, getting to floater range. And then maybe on another night you prefer being able to play five out a little bit more with J. Huff. I kind of anticipate without seeing training camping, knowing exactly what Isaiah and James look right now that Jay will likely be the starter at the beginning of the season. Just because I think it's a little bit easier carry over to try to match what they were doing with Miles Turner with Jayhoff, especially for Pascal Siakam's sake, and how they like to enter the ball from the post from the top of the key from those types of guys because of the gravity. That makes a little bit more sense to me. And then also because off the bench you can kind of do the same thing again with Obi Toppin being that spacer around Isaiah Jackson. And they'll likely even play some of Obi at the five. They almost played more clutch minutes and the Eastern Conference and finals with Obi at the five rather than Miles. So they have a lot of options out there. I agree with you. Like none of these people individually are going to replace exactly what Miles was doing for them on both ends of the floor, but they can be flexible. And I do think ultimately, like, I mean it would be great if one of these guys stepped up and turned out and looked like he was a long term starting center, but I do think the possibility is there that they'll make a trade at some point or maybe this is something that they look at over the summer in the draft depending upon how this season goes for them.

Zena Caida (15:49)

Well, based on that and thinking about the fact that, you know, it could be these centers, it could be Obi Chopped, it could be Jairus Walker that has a breakout year. Looking at the front court versus the back court, which do you think is actually going to be the biggest swing factor in terms of the success for this team next season?

Caitlin Cooper (16:08)

I mean, on both ends of the floor, like there's kind of been a league wide trend to an extent where like the most important defender, rim protection matters. It definitely matters, but I think it's been a move away from the strongest length of your defense has to be a center to the most important defender is more so becoming like the Andrew Nemhard rule and what they're doing on ball, especially in terms of how many offensive teams are basing what their movement is around the pick and roll based on the direction of the ball. So your ability to redirect which side they're going to, especially like against a Memphis, a Cleveland, a Toronto, that runs a lot of that wheel action, it's kind of a shift in importance. So in terms of like what they get out of Andrew Benedict Mather, and I think that's almost more important not only in the short term, but in the long term, like when Tyrese comes back, if this is a team that ultimately still is able to make it to the playoffs, maybe get out of the play in tournament, make it to the playoffs, that bodes really well for what happens when Tyrese comes back. If they don't, they're going to get a lottery pick. But then you're kind of having probably a few more questions. So I kind of, I look to the back court there and in part because I want to be too jaded, but I just, I don't think that the guys who are in the front court next season are going to be their long term answers in the front. Sure, it would be tremendous if they were, but I think that they're probably still going to have to be in search for what they want to do there when Tyrese is healthy again.

Zena Caida (17:31)

That makes sense. And let's talk about this because Tyrese Halliburton, most recently on the Impausible podcast, announced 15 months. That's a long time. Right. And I think the his exit has immediately gotten folks thinking to this season for Indiana as a gap year. Okay. And I know that feels that's probably why people are still in tears in the comments and why people feel a little bit uncertain about the future of the Pacers. And I wanted to ask you, what did you think about this notion of a gap year in which you're kind of looking at this year as one, a developmental year, to figure out what roles other players on this team that maybe aren't getting the same level of load because Tyrese Halberton was there, now get the opportunity to kind of have a breakout party while he's not here. They can develop, they can find a way to incorporate themselves when Tyrese comes back, what do you make of the concept that this is a gap year and they should just try really hard?

Caitlin Cooper (18:33)

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that anybody that plays for the Pacers or coaches for the Pacers is probably going to frame it that way. If I had to guess when they get to media day, they're going to want to be as competitive as possible. They're going to still be trying to win as many games as possible. Ultimately, I think you're still probably going to have to adjust expectations at some point. Like if you get, you know, after the All Star break and you're not like, you know, this, this isn't happening, maybe you're rethinking, like, how much load are we going to put on Pascal Siakam over the back end of this season? Depending upon how it goes. Now, if it doesn' go like that, obviously you keep, you keep trying to win games. But I framed it when it, when Miles, when the news broke that he was going to be going to Milwaukee, is that this was an opportunity to step, take a step back in order to potentially take a bigger step forward. Because people know it. I said after the finals and after the Eastern Conference finals. If you look at what his series was against Boston a year ago, when they got into the deeper rounds of the playoffs, there was things about Miles that while Tyrese definitely enhanced Miles Turner's game, it wasn't always exactly clear how Miles enhanced Tyrese's game, especially against okc. I mean, if you look at the splits, Tyrese didn't get into the paint more often with Miles on the floor. He actually got into the paint more often when Miles was off the floor, despite the fact that he is a space big. And, you know, that's in part because OKC wants to load up so much at the elbows and the blocks. They're a very physical defensive team. They really need somebody with a little bit more handoff craft that was going to be opening up those driving lanes for the guards on the perimeter a little bit more. And that's not necessarily Miles game. And we're with as much switching as the Thunder and the Celtics were doing in those two late round series the last two years. He's also not somebody who readily quickly, you know, is going to recognize, oh, Shay's guarding me and I'm going to do a quick swim move and finish here. And then also some of the, you know, it's a possession war. The NBA is a lot more about, you know, the ball is the most important thing about basketball. And when the Thunder are turning you over that much, you can't also be a team that's getting beat on the glass where, you know, Alex Caruso snatching two rebounds over Miles Turner. So I was kind of of the opinion, I do not think it's ideal that he walked for nothing to the Milwaukee box. And I certainly didn't foresee that the the Bucks would waive Damian Lillard for that to happen. But I was kind of thinking that they were going to need to make a change at that position ultimately anyways for them to get over the hump in those later rounds of the playoffs. So to your point about a gap year, I do think the potential is there for that. If exactly what I said with regards to Miles, but also on a macro scale that you're, you're not going to have the same ceiling, you are taking a step back, but you're hoping that the pieces can fit together, guys can develop through this year and you can ultimately be a better team, hopefully if Tyrese still looks like Tyrese when he comes back from his own injury.

Zena Caida (21:03)

Right. Well on that note then let's close this out. I want to ask you what does success look like for Indiana next year? Could be in record, it could be in player development and growth. Could be in they survive a year where Tyrese is able to come back by the next fall. What does success look like for you this season for Indiana?

Caitlin Cooper (21:25)

I mean, I think if, if one of the bigs, Isaiah or Jay Huff looks like a starter or definitively like that guy is who we want as our backup center even great, that's a check mark. I think if you look at the end of the year and Jairus Walker has firmly made himself in the rotation and his shooting from progression that he's made the last two years continues to carry over. But also some of the things that you saw Pascal talking to Jarris about in that video, like hey, you know, if you work on your stampede catch and get downhill, you're going to get more paint touches and play, you know, have your physicality match your phys a little bit more and Jarris works on his finishing, you know, that was a lottery pick for them. You definitely want him to be solidly in the rotation. I also think that Johnny Furfee is lurking. I liked what they saw from him at summer league. I think he has the potential to be bigger and better. He's still only 20 years old. And then just with regard to is Benedict Matheran the long term answer at the 2? I mean Rick very quietly on that podcast at one point said that it's important to Benedict Matheran to be a starter. Last year with Tyrese, I don't think that there is a strong argument for him starting over Andrew or Aaron. So if that's something that matters to him, that's something you have to balance. Can he continue to meld his play style to how the Pacers want to play, which is kind of hard to do when Tyrese isn't out there, but like in terms of just the quick decision making, his ability to play random, get off the ball a little bit quicker, read closeouts, those types of things, and then make a decision about, you know, what his long term future is going to be or maybe, you know, he ends up becoming a way that they solve some questions at the center spot, depending upon how that goes. So I think those are the main guys that you're looking at in terms of how this season is going to be successful, is getting development out of each one of them.

Zena Caida (23:05)

Do you have a number, a final record number in mind?

Caitlin Cooper (23:09)

Man, I looked over their schedule last night because I figured I was going to be asked this question and I just think that their schedule at the beginning of the year is really tough. They have several back to backs, pretty front loaded there. So I think in this type of, this type of season you probably would have liked it given how many adjustments they're going to make if, if the softer portion of the schedule was earlier rather than later. So I mean, I think I'm almost right around the Vegas over under. I think I got to go with like 38, 39. I'd probably go 39. Yeah.

Zena Caida (23:36)

Okay. Okay. All right. I was. I can't remember where we landed on our pod. I don't know if we discussed this, but we talked a little bit of over unders. But either way, it's going to be an adjustment period and looking at the schedule being harder up front, maybe, maybe they go through the tough period and end up towards the end of the season figuring it out and gelling and figuring out a new.

Caitlin Cooper (23:57)

That's what they've been good at, so.

Zena Caida (23:59)

Right, exactly. The improvisation model works for them. And you can hear a lot more about that with Caitlin and Rick Carlisle. On her most recent episode of Basketball she wrote definitely go check it out. It was such a great history lesson as well as the fact that Rick Harlile likens the way that his team plays to jazz. You can learn more about that on that pod. So definitely go check that out. Caitlyn, thanks for joining us. This is a great preview and we'll see what happens with Indiana.

Caitlin Cooper (24:25)

No problem. Thanks for having me.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (24:35)

Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go? Thank you so much.

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Podcast Host / Interviewer (27:02)

All right folks, we are joined alongside Hunter Patterson of the Athletic, a good luck charm for the Detroit Pistons. Got them to the playoffs in their first year covering them. Hunter man, a big congratulations to you man. It feels like playoff basketball follows you wherever you go.

Hunter Patterson (27:20)

I appreciate it, but I don't also want to be, you know, the opposite of a good luck charm. Things start to change. So yeah, that's fair.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (27:28)

That's Fair.

Hunter Patterson (27:28)

You know, I appreciate it.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (27:29)

Hey, I put a lot of pressure on you right now just to just make sure the Pistons keep winning. Look, I was on the bandwagon early last year talking about how this Pistons team could be a playing team. They exceeded my own expectations. Expectations making the playoffs. Had a really, really interesting series against the Knicks and shuffled the deck a little bit this off season. I know one of the questions for them mainly was the Malik Beasley situation. And as of the time of this recording, we still don't know what's happening there, whether he's going to resign, whether there's anything else going on there. But they still reshuffled the deck. They added Caris LeVert, they added Duncan Robinson in the off season. What do you think was the most impactful change for them this summer?

Hunter Patterson (28:13)

Heading into this year, it's almost like not really in. In addition, it's just having a healthy Jaden Ivey back, I would say is probably their. Yeah. Biggest acquisition, if you will. Although he's been there. But I'm also higher on Caris LeVert, I think than. Than the general consensus around Pistons fans and everything. I think I just have seen flashes of him being able to be a second unit kind of playmaker and someone that the Pistons needed and so he maybe will slot in in my mind as Dennis Schroeder's backup point guard role and playmaker role with a little bit more upside on the scoring. But I see Duncan sliding in essentially as insurance for Malik Beasley and I think just the. The gravity he has on the court will. Will do a lot for Cade and opening the floor up for him. I think I asked him about it during summer league but I think he'll be able to play really well with. With J.D. jalen Duran. Yeah. So those two. And I think Chaz, I saw some, some good stuff from him at summer league just in terms of his off ball movement, not needing a ton of dribbles to get to his spots. So it seems they. They've retooled with the shooting but now it's just about seeing how it all meshes together.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (29:46)

Yeah, let's focus on Jaden Ivey because I think he's one of the most intriguing players heading into this year in all of the NBA. Right. Money is up for grabs for him. He's obviously heading into a situation where he missed a chunk of the season. The team makes the playoffs and you could tell in that playoff series and towards the end of the regular season like they desperately. Not desperately, but they Needed an extra creator. Another guy who could kind of alleviate some of the pressure off of Cade Schroeder was that to a certain degree. But the potential of Jaden Ivey to be this explosive score next to Cade is what's really intriguing with this Pistons team. Now, for what it's worth, from watching them, I know they like to stagger those guys a lot and play them kind of one guy on, one guy off. Like, what is the expectation for Jaden Ivey heading into this season? Is he the biggest guy to kind of. You need him to take a step forward this year.

Hunter Patterson (30:42)

I say so just because you, you were starting to kind of see the dynamic that, that him and Cade were building last, I guess, the fall. He got injured in January, so leading up to that, you could see flashes of him. He was at a career best for his three point shooting. He was seeking out more threes off the dribble especially. And when you have someone other than Cade who gets majority of the defense's attention, obviously I think that'll free up space for other players and especially Cade and just allowing him more room to operate so teams don't just sit in the pain on him. How they kind of were down the stretch.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (31:25)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (31:27)

Aside from. From JI though, I also think Asar is going to be in that same realm a bit where this is his first time having a full off season.

Caitlin Cooper (31:37)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (31:38)

He was hampered kind of with the. The blood clots at the end of his rookie season. And now you're possibly going to get to see him with a refined jumper, more confidence in it now that he has time to work on it. But between Asar and Jaden Ivey, I think those two will be key components of any extra success that this team has this year.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (32:01)

Yeah. And like, the crazy thing about it is that they're still so young. Like I was when I was kind of researching for this. This pod that we're talking right now, like, Jalen Duran is still 21 years old, which is just. It's absurd. And I, I thought he played well in the postseason, like, obviously went through his bumps and figuring out how to play postseason basketball. But you think of him, Asar, Ivy K. Like, there is a young group here that's probably going to grow together for a very long time and have a little bit of a Runway to figure things out. The head of the snake is Cade Cunningham. Right. And everything that he does dictates how far this Pistons team goes. Obviously a massive season. Was one of the best players in the NBA, one of the best Creators in the NBA last year. I think also, you know, as expected, took his bumps in the postseason figuring out what it means to play playoff basketball. But that's expected for a guy who's getting into that, you know, mode for the first time in his career. What are the expectations for Cade as he leads this team moving forward?

Hunter Patterson (33:07)

I think for him it's really continuing on the leadership that he has that JB and Trajan love in terms of him creating opportunities for others and not it being just like I'm the guy and everyone else is like down here. He tries to boost his teammates up as much as possible and I think the game is naturally just started to slow down for him. No older he's gotten at 23, but the more experience he has in postseason play, like you said, taking those lumps where it's like things that worked in, in the regular season aren't really going to work because we're constantly being scouted. We know what you're trying to do, you know what we're trying to do. So I think just those are necessary bumps in the road for him to be able to take all of next season as serious as he needs to. Not that he wasn't last year, but you don't know what you don't know until you get there. Yeah. And Trazing even alluded to that during just exit interviews and things about Cade upping his, his conditioning and making sure that he's just in, in the best shape possible to continue to be as lethal as he was last year.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (34:29)

Yeah, it's fascinating because like you could still tell there's so much more that he can work and develop, you know, and like you said, he's still so young, but the level that he played at last year honestly felt like it was only a glimpse of what he could get to once he gets to his prime. Becoming more consistent of a like mid range shot creator, which he's really talented at. Obviously the pull up three was a.

Hunter Patterson (34:51)

Big part of him finishing even too not to jump in there. That was one area where you're in the games and you're like, okay, yeah, you, you see him missing some of those but then you look into the stats and he wasn't necessarily the best finisher. Although he is about 6, 7, 6, 8. Yeah. So there's plenty of areas where he can grow. And I think he's very aware of that too because I'd ask him like how, how satisfying is it to be an all star or to be actually winning games now and he's like, it's satisfying, but this isn't like, I want much more than this.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (35:25)

Yeah. It's only step one of, like, what the process, evolutionary process is for him, of what he wants to get to. And I think that's. That's the interesting part, because I thought with JB Bickerstaff, they found an identity defensively. Right. This was a very good defensive team. They got you to play down in the mud. I mean, even in that Knicks playoff series, this was a really talented offensive Knicks team. And you could tell that every game was a grind. Right. It was grueling to watch. And I think that's the way that the Pistons want to play. I think that's the way that their roster is set up with some of the guys that they have defensively. But the offense, like, there were moments where you could say, all right, there's. There's a clear and concise way about going things, but it was a little too reliant on Cade to be the guy every single time. And maybe that's Jaden Ivey taking a step next year. Maybe that's a Sar Thompson taking a step next year. Maybe that's Jalen Duran taking another step as well. But I think this team is set up to be very, very competitive heading into this season. Probably one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference, depending on who you ask, does that make them more aggressive to try and go and add a piece? Because there is a gap in the Eastern Conference this year. And you know, you've got. You've obviously got the top dogs in Cleveland and New York, but I think Detroit and Orlando and Atlanta, like those teams have kind of a better than a puncher's chance, I would say, of trying to make some noise. Do you think they might be aggressive heading into the deadline? And who do you think they might try to trade for to be aggressive?

Hunter Patterson (37:04)

I honestly think that they are on the opposite line of that in terms of.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (37:08)

Interesting.

Hunter Patterson (37:09)

Patient. Yeah, they just. In Trajan's messaging from the end of the season to our Q and A we had recently, he's really just intentional, I would say, about trying to give these guys as much time as possible. Right. And with as impatient as the NBA is, it's kind of just you. It's. What have you done for me lately? We need to get this done now. I think he's well aware that the, like, Jalen Duran just turned 21, the head of the snake. Cade is only 23. So I think he wants to really give them enough Runway to see how Good they can be. And I think he has as much belief as it seems. I don't think it's like a facade or anything where he's doing like GM speak about. Yeah, we just want to, you know, have them, them develop and not chase anything. I think that's really how he feels. So obviously if things go left to start the season, then you probably would have to reevaluate. But I think he's pretty firm and being patient.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (38:16)

Yeah, I mean you, you see a proof of concept in OKC in terms of like a young group growing together. And obviously Sam Presti is, is notorious for being very patient. Right. They've made moves here and there, but for, for the most part, like up until last summer, they were a very, very patient team in terms of letting the, the group grow together before adding the Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Carusos of the world. And so to the, to the Detroit point, like you have to see what the potential of these players are. You have to see if Cade can continue to play all NBA or MVP level basketball. You have to see if Ivey takes that next step, if Hussar takes that next step, if Duran takes that next step. And then you start to fine tune the pieces around it. But heading into next season, you know, there's also a lot of swing factors. To your point about whether this season goes left or whether they continue on the same path that they have. What do you think is the biggest swing factor for this team next year?

Hunter Patterson (39:14)

That is a great question. I harp a lot on, on Jaden and Asar just because the two didn't really have a lot of intersection in time in terms of how much they got to play together because Asar was slow to come back last season after of course like the, the blood clots again and he was just working his way back up. He didn't really have great conditioning until later in the season. And even then there would be times where he was still visibly winded a bit. And once JI started the season off really well, Asara, like I said, wasn't there. He goes down, Asar comes back. And I think people were quick to say, oh well, they're now better because of this or that. But I think they just didn't have time to mesh the starting lineup of Cade Ivy, JI excuse me, Cade Ivy, Asar, Tobias Endurin, like that they wanted to have initially. They didn't have a ton of minutes and Tim Hardaway essentially started all of their, the games that he played last year because of that.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (40:24)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (40:24)

So there's Just so much uncertainty that I would say the, the biggest swing would be either how well Asar comes back or how well Jaden Ivey comes back.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (40:38)

There's. I, I'm in this conversation. I was kind of just looking at the depths chart. We also forgot to talk about Ron Holland, who. Yes, I, I thought he was. He had flashes in his rookie year. Obviously was still trying to figure things out. Really feisty player. It feels like every time I watched a Pistol Pistons game, he was getting into it with someone. But generally, like, has a lot of tools. Right. And so you look up and down this Pistons roster and they have the vets in a Carislevert, in a Duncan Robinson that can help them. Cade, obviously you can expect something similar. I think he's gotten to the point where you can expect him to play similar to what he did last year, but now it's like these younger pieces, those are the swing factors for this team. And to your point about Asar and Jaden Ivey, they have the most potential. Right. They just have a higher ceiling. And that might be the determiner for whether this team is a top four seed in the Eastern Conference next year or if they're, you know, five, six, seven like they were last year. And so I guess what's your, what's your expectations heading into next year for this Pistons team? Where do you think they land in the Eastern Conference?

Hunter Patterson (41:44)

I would say they'll be in the top half of it. I'd say yeah, probably around like 5 to 6. Again, I'm not too overzealous in the prediction because I am aware that there's still. The Knicks Cavs are still looking nice. I never really want to count a team out that has Giannis on it, although there's a lot going on there as well.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (42:09)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (42:10)

But I'd say probably a top four or five seed if. If all goes well, because to your point, ron just turned 20. He mentioned I had asked him last season what it means to be able to work with Fred Vinson, their shooting coach. He's like, dude, I actually have never had a shooting coach before I got to the NBA, which is interesting.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (42:32)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (42:33)

But I mean, he's. He's so young and still putting things together in Vegas. Fred was out there again. They were working on the jumper and it looked nice in summer league. So now it's time to see if it translates.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (42:45)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (42:45)

To regular season play. But I think he has just a lot of intangibles and in terms of, like, his grittiness. His, his. I don't give a damn attitude about like, who I'm playing and that, that just goes into the main point. I feel like I've, I've probably repeated too much in terms of like, they really don't know what they have.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (43:09)

Yeah.

Hunter Patterson (43:09)

But yeah, I think it should be fun to watch.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (43:13)

No, for what it's worth, like, that's a good position to be in if you're a team that's coming off of their first playoff berth in so many years. Right. And you have an opportunity to evaluate while also just like letting these guys grow and develop in their own ways. And to your point, they're not rushing the process, they're allowing this to kind of naturally develop in its own way. I'm really curious to your point about Asar and what he can do because he is the most interesting player on this team outside of Kate Cunningham to me, because, and this is cliche, this is a very big cliche. But he plays the right way. Like he makes the right decisions on a basketball court. Defensively, obviously a wild athlete, but offensively he makes the right plays. He's very intuitive in the way that he cuts. He's very intuitive in the way that he passes the ball on the go. And so when you have a player like this that if they can add the scoring element, if they, if he can add the shooting element, which is a work in progress, the sky is the limit for a guy like a Sar Thompson, who, man, maybe might be able to throw himself in the most improved conversation. But Hunter Patterson, also in the most improved conversation. Q and A with Trajan. Did a Q and A with Trayson Langdon. Go and check that out as well on the athletic Hunter, appreciate you stopping by talking about the Pistons, man.

Hunter Patterson (44:32)

Appreciate y' all having me. I'm always glad to be back.

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