Andrew Claudio (5:02)

Well, let's start here. Thank you for having me.

Host (5:06)

Yes.

Andrew Claudio (5:07)

Mr. Schleck, behind the glass. Thank you for the invitation tonight.

Host (5:12)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (5:13)

Never thought that when I'd be honored to make my first appearance to the athletic NBA show non trade a Palooza edition.

Host (5:22)

Right.

Andrew Claudio (5:23)

That it would be after the worst loss in Knicks history. And I don't think I found one yet in my memory bank that has felt like this is a fan. I'm 37, going to be 37 years old. So I don't have a fond memory or even not fond memory, a memory of the Ewing finger roll also against the Pacers. If I were to go to many a Nick fan, they would say that the finger roll game or Reggie Miller 8 points in 8.9 seconds would be their, their 2. The solace I've been trying to make work is that the, the game in which Reggie Miller put up the choke sign. They lost that series. People don't remember that. That was game five. They then blew a game six in Indiana.

Host (6:12)

Yep.

Andrew Claudio (6:12)

In which Reggie missed two big free throws down the stretch. John Starks had a very big game to force a game seven in which the Knicks won and went to the finals. And this basketball team that has had so many ups and downs during a season that we thought we were resigned to, to how the season would end, this would be a team that gets the three seed, hopefully gets to the second round against a tough Detroit team. Yeah, it goes out in a gentleman's sweep against the defending champs. And then we look for a new head coach. Gives us this, this moment, this feeling over the past four days here in the Big Apple that I don't think any of us have ever felt like any, any time the Knicks have prospered in their franchise history, it's coincided with a hint of an expectation, especially when you factor in the underdog that they were plus 1,000 going into the series against the Celtics.

Host (7:09)

Yep. Yep.

Andrew Claudio (7:10)

So you show up for this series not just having overcome all that, put a lot of doubt from a lot of people in the past. One of the most raucous environments in game five. And you kind of recreate it in that fourth quarter when you go on a 140 run after Jalen Brunson picks up his fifth foul. I didn't think his process was great when he came back in, but I do understand Brunson in crunch time being like, they can't guard me. The guy was 13 of 18 from 2 point range tonight, had 43 points. Yeah, they don't have an answer for Jalen BRUNSON and the 14 point lead that you had at 1:16,102. They call a timeout. Carlisle called Carl a very smart timeout to freeze Brunson on before the second free throw. He misses it and then the knee Smith onslaught happens. And if you look at the anatomy of a collapse s like so many things have to go wrong to blow a 14 point lead.

Host (8:11)

Be perfect from the other side.

Andrew Claudio (8:13)

So it's like N. Smith has to have the heater of all heaters. OG Anunoby has to have two turnovers. Jalen Brunson has to miss. He obviously missed the first free throw. Jalen Brunson also has to inexplicably pass the ball to OG when running the ball out, like literally run the clock Run the clock out, run the ball, run around. You're the point guard and you add in a missed Carl Anthony Towns free throw, a missed OGN and Nobi free throw, and yeah, that's history. And you add in insult to injury, that Halliburton, I know his foot was on the line, but the Kawhi bounce, that is a good thing.

Host (8:51)

Yes.

Andrew Claudio (8:53)

Look, last year they were up six with 30 seconds left against the Sixers in game five. And Tyrese Maxey went on a 70 run, seven to one run by himself right over that stretch.

Host (9:08)

That was also a crazy series.

Andrew Claudio (9:09)

I mean, yeah, that was at least game five. And you let the Sixers back into it and that was. That felt like pulling teeth the whole time. The Knicks were three minutes away from celebrating a Game 1 victory in which so much good could be taken out of it. What you're getting from your two bench players, Mitchell Robinson and Deuce McBride, I mean, you said you thought OG played well today. I thought this is one of OG's worst games. Especially when you're looking at, especially when you're looking at the offensive and defensive process, how late he was on a lot of these coverages. Those Nismith threes in that like is. They're playing drop. But how about you? You don't drop so far when they're clearly going to shoot threes.

Host (9:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Claudio (9:56)

Yeah. I thought they, I will say they took five. Go ahead. Sorry.

Host (10:00)

They played perfectly up until that moment.

Andrew Claudio (10:06)

They played well enough to win a double digit game. Yeah. And yeah, it's what I'm trying to wrestle with here because. Right. Respect to the Pacers for the unreal comeback, the scorching hot shooting to come back and tie the game and send it to overtime and then win it. This was. The Knicks collapsed like. No, I'm not trying to take away anything from the Pacers and coming back and stealing this one again. The, the turnover, the miss, the, the, the. All the different things, the blown coverage, the not getting up on three. Yeah, the Knicks collapsed here and as I started this, it's the worst loss and it's going to have to become an irrelevant loss. Like the Knicks are going to have to now rebound and make it in a relevant loss.

Host (10:55)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (10:56)

You know, five years in the making, you're building for this after Leon Rose got here. And if this team loses this series and then doesn't make a Finals, we'll be thinking about game one forever. And it's the reality I think a lot of Knicks fans are living with today. Yeah.

Host (11:12)

That is the, that is the somber note of this, this game from the Knicks perspective. And honestly, like, how can you, how can you look at this And I think there is a way to look at this and say there is a positive outlook moving forward for the Knicks. Just because.

Andrew Claudio (11:27)

Please find it, find it.

Host (11:31)

For, for 40 minutes, you know, they played a very, very good basketball game and there were a lot of great takeaways from this, from the Knicks side. That's positive. I mean the Pacers are just relentless. They are. A lot of people have called it voodoo magic what they've been doing. And to your point about the comebacks and the collapses.

Andrew Claudio (11:49)

Yeah.

Host (11:49)

You do need things to go your way in a major way. I'm thinking about the Bucks game where the Pacers came back and Halliburton hit that game winning layup. I mean Gary Trent Jr. Turned the ball over a couple times. They had a collapse, if you will. Thinking about the Cav situation and the Cavs, obviously they were in a situation where they made tons of mistakes down the stretch and the Pacers were able to take advantage, taking advantage of the mistakes that your team makes. It's what the Indiana Pacers have just been able to do, which is why they are on the other side of some really, really team of destiny type of games. And it's unfortunate because I think a lot of Knicks fans probably thought this next team was the team of destiny. But still, positivity. When we come back, we'll talk about how the Knicks can bounce back after game one Foreign.

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Host (15:10)

Okay, so it was a collapse of epic proportions, all of that jazz. But I agree with you. I do think that for the most part they played a good game and there are a lot of good takeaways. You mentioned it early, but no one was able to guard Jalen Brunson in this game. There wasn't a soul on the Pacers. I mean they did try to trap him a little bit, be a little bit more aggressive in that second half and I thought that did change some things. But for the most part he took care of business. It didn't matter if it was Andrew Nemhardt, if it was Aaron Neesmith, that didn't matter at this point. Your takeaway from the way both Brunson and Cat played, because I think Cat also took advantage of Miles Turner. He hit, you know, three threes in that first half. He hadn't. He made three threes all series versus The Boston Celtics. So it felt like he was rejuvenated. How did you take that and kind of move forward to game two?

Andrew Claudio (16:02)

I mean, I'm doing my best, as I promise you, to not think about the final three minutes. But yeah, that's why it is an easy adjustment or spin on what you do better in game. Game two. You close like you close out. They did so much well tonight, that fourth quarter stretch where Indiana was making their run and they cut it to one. Yeah, I believe it was a two point game when Brunson left with his fifth foul, and I repeat, they just, they had no answer for him tonight. The narrative of a Brunson stopper that Aaron Nesmith ever was one of those was always kind of silly to me. Brunson got hurt and was a step slow.

Host (16:46)

He was clearly hobbled in that series.

Andrew Claudio (16:48)

He missed shots that he normally makes over the course of the final five games of that series. And in one of those five games he. And one of those five games he had 43 points and in another one of those five games he broke his hand. So there was no stopping Jalen Brunson on, on Nisma's part. And you saw it tonight. And it's why I understood Brunson trying to take over down the stretch because throughout the night he got to his spots, he got downhill, he got guys on his hip and just did whatever he wanted in two point range, missed his threes, but you can forgive it to an extent. And if you're doing everything right and 43 points on 25 shots and you get to the line 14 times, this was a formula for a great Jalen Brunson game. And to your point, we haven't seen a game like this from Cat, I'd argue in months, I got to be honest. And it's not even a Cat thing. I've not seen him be guarded solely by centers.

Host (17:41)

Right. In barbecue chicken. Yeah, he, he like really likes the Miles Turner matchup. He enjoys that. Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (17:49)

Well, so not just the Miles Turner matchup, but I'm sure, you know this teams have been putting their biggest wing on Cat and their center on Josh Hart since January. So the fact that the Knicks went into the series and one of our questions throughout our previews was how are the Pacers going to guard it if we're going to go Sekam onto Cat, are we going to go, you know, maybe like you realize what Nith is or like you. I mean, that's really the only option. It's. It's Nismeth or Siakam or you just go with. With Turner and Cat cooked the majority of the night. And I gotta be honest, there's a defensive portion of this where if you get him, if you get him in space, that's always been a problem for him. When you have a guard like, like Halliburton or like Nemhard and Katz up in the air or honestly just go back to the last two series when Cade is on him or at times when Derrick White or Drew Holiday or even Jalen Brown would get Downhill. That's where you, you have trouble with Carl Anthony Towns. It's either an automatic foul or a direct path to the rim. If you, you take the space away and this is what Minnesota did last year. You just, you, you put him on Jokic and just say be big, be.

Host (19:02)

Big, be a big body.

Andrew Claudio (19:03)

And you saw Siakam's trying to back him down. And Cat's only block tonight was when that was the formula. And as long as you make it a half court game. And the Knicks went to their double big lineup which built a 16 point lead, like that's the formula and that's how you're going to be able to make Cat not be a liability on defense throughout this series. So you have, look the, the process to the positive spin zone is very simple. Yeah, you built a 16 point lead on this team, a 14 point lead with three minutes left.

Host (19:37)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (19:38)

And then like the sky caved in.

Host (19:41)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (19:43)

Wear a, put an umbrella up next time. You know what, you're good.

Host (19:47)

Actually, this is, this is the funny part about this. I think if you're the Knicks, the hardest part about this is the mental aspect. And this is a really, really tough team. Very, very resilient team. And I think the mental aspect of like just chalking this up to 1 and 970 were the odds basically for this Pacers team to win that game. And you had executed perfectly for the first 40 minutes. Chalk it up to that. And then just move on. Right. And move into game two and say, hey, we did this. Well, you mentioned the bigs, the Mitchell Robinson, Carl Anthony Towns duo. They were plus 14 in the 10 minutes that they played. It was massive. The size advantage was really, really apparent. You saw it on the offensive rebounds. Knicks were crashing the glass. I think that's an interesting wrinkle to this because Indiana is so prone to getting out in transition. They do not care about getting that, you know, kind of grabbing the rebound or crashing the offensive glass as much as possible. So they're trying to get out in transition. They're not getting the defensive rebounds. Knicks can take advantage there and that's a wrinkle that I think can be leaned on a little bit more. I think you'd want more Mitchell Robinson and I'm sure that you feel that way from the Knicks side too. More Mitch Robinson moving forward. Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (21:02)

So there is a motor thing with Mitch. I have no idea what he can give you as far as the more is concerned. I've, I've said just start at 20 minutes and inch your way closer to 25 as you can. Deuce McBride a massive plus tonight. He finished plus 12 in a game.

Host (21:20)

They lost three was really, really good.

Andrew Claudio (21:21)

In this, which is ironic. Nick's bench is. Is two and a half players and they're still pretty good tonight. But Deuce gets his. His. I mean, Carl Anthony Townsend, Deuce McBride, in their 14 minutes together, a plus 24. It's. A lot of it is. Has to do with that, that fourth quarter. Right. So look, the. The numbers off the charts have been off the charts when Mitch has been in the game, when Deuce has been in the game. It's really just this mediocre starting five.

Host (21:49)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (21:50)

That the Knicks have had to navigate this year, which, I mean, it goes back to Tibbs, but I really don't have any smoke for Tibbs after this. It's. It's the, it's the challenge in the third quarter, but I understood, like, that's Brunson's third foul. Fourth foul. And you want to try and take it away. Maybe leaving Brunson in after he picks up a fourth foul so he could pick up a fifth.

Host (22:11)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (22:12)

Is a tough call. So. Or whatever. I think I'm blanking. I think it was actually his third foul. And so you challenge it so he doesn't get to three regardless.

Host (22:21)

Right, right, right. Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (22:22)

I didn't see enough on my first replay to challenge it and I, I think he should have took a note from what not to do from the Pistons series with Jamie Bickerstaff and how many times they kept using their challenge when it was at best marginal, you'd have a chance to win.

Host (22:37)

That's something that, like, I think every shout out to Rob Mahoney of the Ringer, he's mentioned this. He has like a challenge process for teams. You need to do that. Like, there is no reason to have a first or second quarter challenge. Keep it locked.

Andrew Claudio (22:53)

Right.

Host (22:54)

Keep it tucked in. You don't need it at that point. And so I think that's a, that's an interesting part of this. I do want to talk about the. And this is the final thing we can mention before we head out of here.

Andrew Claudio (23:04)

Yeah, of course.

Host (23:05)

If you're looking forward to Game 2 for the Knicks and, and what they have to do against Indiana, is it just a map? Like, do you think a lineup change is even possible for this Knicks team? Do you think they do that at all? Is because I know Tibbs is one of those guys that will not do it. But I'm assuming you're just not Expecting anything of the sorts.

Andrew Claudio (23:24)

Well, so the. What, I have changed the lineup months ago. Sure. But, like, yeah, again, the starting five has just been very average. Right. The majority of the season.

Host (23:36)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (23:36)

And it's why we're talking about the Deuce minutes, the Mitchell Robinson minutes. And that's how the Knicks are going to win their margins in this playoffs and through this run. And we've seen it all throughout the playoffs. Look, I thought they should have changed their starting lineup after game three against Boston. I thought they should have changed their starting lineup after Game 2 against Detroit, and they made it to the conference finals, and we're up by 14 with three minutes left. So I don't think after a game one loss that ripped your heart out and took again, all of the things to be a collapse that you make a radical change like that. But, man, as far as what I'm looking for in game two, you mentioned it. It's mental. If they clearly look like a team that is battling with the realization that they now have to win five games in this series. Cause you already blew one.

Host (24:25)

Totally.

Andrew Claudio (24:26)

Yeah. Then, yeah, everything has to be on the table.

Host (24:30)

You. You have to win five games because you're facing the Indiana Pacers. And they somehow do this in every series where they're able to get involved in whatever game is there. They are relentless. They just do not give up on the game. They didn't let go of the rope in this one, and they ended up winning it. And like, switching is an interesting concept that I'm very, very curious about. For the Knicks, it's like, will they go to the switching more often? I feel like it worked in the second half for the most part, and I think that's something they can lean on. The double big lineups something that you're interested in. I think for both teams, they can play bigger a little bit. At the end of the day, Andrew, just chalk it up to it being one of the craziest, most insane games you've ever watched in your life. That's. And I'm sorry that. That you can't experience it as an impartial.

Andrew Claudio (25:25)

No, I can't. I can't experience it as crazy or unbelievable.

Host (25:29)

I know, I know.

Andrew Claudio (25:30)

It's heartbreaking is what it is. And for the rest of the series, if they tie, if they win game two, it's like, oh, you should be up two zero. If they lose game three, it's like, oh, this still should be up to one.

Host (25:41)

Yeah.

Andrew Claudio (25:41)

The entire calculus of the series changes. Yeah. And it's why it's up to Tibbs. It's up to this captain, Jalen Brunson. It's up to the guys that have been telling Knicks fans throughout the playoffs, believe in us. You're going to have to earn that belief that you could come back from this, because if you do, my goodness will you have earned it because you're coming back from one of the lowest points in franchise history now. And that's just the reality of what they're up against over the rest of the series.

Host (26:10)

Where does we'll finish this is the final thing, I promise. Of course. Where does Tyrese Halliburton rank on the most hated, slash, respected opposing player thing for Knicks fans? Especially after the choke. Where does he does he land?

Andrew Claudio (26:27)

Figures he does it after the shot goes in, not realizing that, right? It's a two pointer. He only needs something to happen first before he, the front runner, decides to actually. There we go. Listen, you wear the Reggie Miller hoodie after game seven, not in the tunnel on the way to game seven. It's just the reality. You can be the wrestling heel, but you have to wait until the count is already up.

Host (26:52)

He does a great job of being the heel.

Andrew Claudio (26:54)

I know the rest of the country thinks he's adorable and I do respect him as a basketball player. The reality is that the Knicks should have won this game despite Tyrese Halliburton hitting a crazy shot and like for. For the majority of this game, they largely contained him. So as far as where he ranks, he's annoying. He's not a villain to me. The Knicks lost this game. Tyrese Halliburton didn't like. It's almost disrespectful to Reggie Miller to put him in the conversation. Look, it's just a tough career. 26 and 41 against the New York Knicks and lost way more than he did at home in. In Madison Square Garden than he did.

Host (27:33)

This is why. This is why we brought you on.

Andrew Claudio (27:35)

Here to take this narrative. And don't get me started on Trey Young, who is 7 and 18, 19 against the Knicks in his career. Oh, let's add the five playoff games, right? So the 4 and 1 he went against the Knicks. So we're at 11 and 19 and we have to go to four wins in the playoffs against Reggie Bullock, Alfred Payton and Nerlands Noel.

Host (27:53)

Wow.

Andrew Claudio (27:54)

Yeah. You got. You got me.

Host (27:55)

I love it. I love it. I absolutely love it. I can't wait for game two. This is already stacking up to be an all time series. Again, folks. If you didn't watch the game, just go and watch the highlights. Go. Go. Just maybe not Knicks fans, but anybody else. Just go watch the highlights and enjoy because it genuinely was one of the greatest games I've watched. And I apologize once again, Andrew Claudia from Knicks Film School for rubbing it in. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for everybody who has listened to the athletic NBA Daily today. Thank you to Andrew Schleck for producing and we will see you guys next time. Take care.

Andrew Claudio (28:56)

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