← The Athletic NBA Daily
The Athletic NBA Daily
Pelicans poised for a run? + Shai's MVP case
00:48:30
Will Guillory joins Sam Amick and Anthony Slater to catch up on the Pelicans recent success, Zion’s health, and their push to the playoffs. Then, Slater shares some insight from Oklahoma City on the Thunder and discuss Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s chances at MVP, followed by quick hitter check ins on the Bucks, Warriors, Lakers, and Heat.
Loading summary
Transcript130 lines
- [00:00]
Discover Ad
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard As a.
- [00:26]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator Ad
Salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're read, ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com rates 23 that's LinkedIn.com rates 23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:31]
Apple Card Ad
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card today and start earning up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases. And that daily cash can even grow automatically when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Card. What are you waiting for? Visit Apple Co Card Calculator today to see how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners Subject to eligibility savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Member FDIC terms and more@applecard.com.
- [02:12]
Sam Amick
Hello and welcome to the Tampering Podcast part of the Athletic NBA Show Network. I'm Sam Amick, NBA National Writer at the Athletic. Coming at you with my guy, usual suspect, Anthony Slater. Not on the west coast as usual. He's coming from lovely Dallas. For the YouTubers out there, we got beautiful trees and scenery behind them. More importantly, no offense later. Love you, but we don't get this man on the pod nearly often enough. We got the one, the only Will Gillery Pelicans Beat Rider Heat beat writer, NBA writer extraordinary. Will, what's up my friend? How the hell are You.
- [02:49]
Will Guillory
I'm doing well, man. Not as much scenery behind me, but I'm just glad I'm here to fill the Fred cats void. I won't be here talking Tyrese Halliburton or Windshares or anything like that, but I'm glad to bring what I can bring to the squad.
- [03:06]
Anthony Slater
That's good because we can actually rate our podcast PG13 this time around. Because if Fred has here rated, I wouldn't say R, but it's more like rated X rated.
- [03:15]
Sam Amick
Actual Fred's around talking about cockroaches like relax, Fred. That. That's, that's legit. Well, like, man, I'm so flattered that like you come with the, the knowledge on the pod. You've been listening. I appreciate that, man.
- [03:27]
Will Guillory
Nah, man, I love the show.
- [03:28]
Sam Amick
Appreciate you. So today, listen guys, we're gonna be pretty straightforward. We got the playoffs coming around the corner not too far away. Everything's getting real. You know, the, the thing I do love as somebody who's decided to be a proponent of the playing tournament because I've enjoyed it, is like it. It makes everything even more real sooner, right? Like last night I was at the Kings Lakers game and, and when the Kings beat the Lakers, Damona Sabonis says post game that this was like two wins, you know, this was this check two boxes because they kept the Lakers at bay. They gained ground on the Suns. They're in the sixth spot. But just as an example, all these different teams on both sides of the ledger, east and west, you know, are playing games that feel a little bit like playoff games. But as we make the rounds today and focus heavily on the west, we are going to begin in Will's home region of New Orleans. And these pelicans, Will, that we are guilty of not talking about a ton, you know, they, they had the spotlight at the end season tournament and they did not make good use of it. Right. Like that was a very, very humbling moment for Zion Williamson, for the whole crew. And it's almost like, you know, in the same way the playing tournament changes the spotlight around postseason time, the end season tournament gives you this, this mid season spotlight. You can either make the most of it or not, but when you, when you kind of, you know, s the bed, if you will, no better way of saying it, like, then you fall off. Well, you look up as we stop paying attention and they're playing really good basketball. You know, Zion is doing really good things. That's point. Zion, you know, you are the man on that team on that beat what the hell's going on out there? What is going right for that squad?
- [05:14]
Will Guillory
Yeah, I mean, this isn't exactly a great title to be talking about. You know how great the Pales are because they kind of got whooped last night by the Cleveland Cavaliers.
- [05:21]
Sam Amick
That is true.
- [05:22]
Will Guillory
But I do think overall, like you said, since the end season tournament, they've been much, much better. And in particular, Zion has been much better. And I think he's a classic example of what we talk about a lot of times, you know, when we're behind the scenes, when players tell us, yeah, I don't pay attention to the media. You guys talk about us. I'm focused on basketball. I think we all know that that's far from true. Like all of these guys pay attention. They're all scrolling their timeline, they're listening. And I think Zion is one of those guys who pays attention much more than he'll let on. And I think he heard a lot of the criticism after this in season tournament about his weight, about his play, about his commitment to the team. And I think that that really affected them. And I wrote this after the game that I think that was probably good for him to really deal with a moment where he had to look in the mirror and say, I didn't lose because of injuries or I didn't lose because David Griffin didn't put a good enough team around me. We lost because I didn't show up. LeBron and AD played huge games and Zion and Brandon Ingram did not. And I think it was important for both of those guys to really own that moment, own that loss. And I think they learned a tone from it. And I think in particular, those two guys have done a much better job just being leaders and showing up every single night. And, you know, you guys talked about this recently. I've said it multiple times. I think Zion is playing the best basketball in his career and I think he looks better than he has his entire career. The way he's moving around, the way he's playing defense. And I think it's made a huge difference for this team.
- [06:53]
Sam Amick
Is he. Sorry, Slater, real quick, you know, I mean, listen, you're not. And I hate to just do this thing where you focus on Zion and the size and the fit fitness, you know, but that is a big part of his story. I saw a picture recently, I was like, damn, man. Even from the in season tournament, like, he looks a lot better, you know, like how. But. But you see him, you know, more often than I do. How significant.
- [07:11]
Anthony Slater
It's the legend of, like, the. The Internet photos that you're like, I.
- [07:15]
Sam Amick
Know you never know if they're real when they came from. And. And the Internet is not nice to people when it comes to physical conversations. But it matters because this dude, as you know, as we've reported, it's like, you know, you got a contract that's absolutely littered with, you know, clauses relating to his weight, to his fitness. It is just part of his story. And, you know, we're not trying to sit here and. And shame anybody, but it matters in terms of his ability to make an impact, be who you know he can be as a player. The question, though, is from in season tournament to now, in your opinion and your kind of eyeball test, how significant is the way he's taking care of his body, the way he's moving all the physical stuff?
- [07:52]
Will Guillory
Yeah. First off, one of my number one rules I've learned since COVID resigned is I don't believe any picture. I don't believe any video of Zion. I judge him when I watch him on the basketball court. And when you see him on the basketball court, he's just moving different. He's moving faster, he's jumping up higher. You see him getting some of these crazy blocks as of late, I just think he's moving a lot different. The way he's carrying himself on the court is different. And it doesn't matter what our opinion is. I think you see how different it is with the way the Pelicans are using him. The fact that they're leaning so much more on point Zion and running so much of the offense through him. I think it's an indicator that they're saying, yeah, you're able to handle this load. You're able to do this from night to night. And I think a lot of their reluctance to do that early in the season was the fact that he just couldn't carry that load for 30 minutes. He couldn't be that guy who was running the offense, making decisions possession by possession. And I think they leaned on C.J. and Brandon Ingram to do a lot of that. But now I think they see their best version of this team is when Zion has the ball. They put shooters around him, and he could just go downhill over and over again. And he's been, you know, incredible with the way he's been able to run the offense to get to his spots and like I said, just be able to play defense at a high level. I think that's been the biggest difference. I think if you watch Z early in his career, he was A flat out bad defender. And a lot of it was just him not putting in the amount of effort from possession to possession to really go out and make the plays that he's capable of. And I think he's really taking more pride on that end. I think he's taking it personal when guys are beating him with backdoor cuts or when guys are trying to isol him one on one. I think he's taking that stuff a lot more personal now and he's able to make those plays. And yeah, I just think he's in a much better place physically and mentally now and I think he's ever been. And I think the guys are kind of following him because they've seen what type of progress he's made.
- [09:46]
Anthony Slater
In honor of Aaron Rodgers, the vice presidential bid. I think Will's rule of not believing in, you know, what he sees on the Internet is a good rule of thumb beyond.
- [09:59]
Sam Amick
We get some applause from Andrew select and Dave before.
- [10:02]
Anthony Slater
No, no.
- [10:03]
Sam Amick
Nice job.
- [10:03]
Anthony Slater
Okay. Yeah. I mean, the Zion at Duke was like, I thought prospect wise he looked like he'd be an unbelievable defender. Remember those like leaping get back to the corner, like blocks into the Duke crowd and stuff, stuff like that. I mean, he moved differently even then back in college. But let's standings wise, you know, they are. To me, they've like kind of separated themselves right at the 5 right now. Although as you mentioned, the loss last night kind of brings them a little bit back to the back, but 39 and 26, I think that, I mean, we know this, that. That 5, 6 is important not only for, you know, you just avoid the play in. But also I think it's becoming increasingly important because of what Denver's doing. I think it's very. You want to avoid the Nuggets, anybody down there in that pocket. You know, the west wants to avoid the Nuggets. And because the Nuggets are playing well enough now, they just took over the one seed last night. It's them and the Thunder kind of grappling for that with Minnesota without Towns, with the Clippers, you know, kind of in their own slump. To me, it seems like that's Minnesota. Clippers is the likely 3, 4, which means you want to be the 5 or 6 for. For an extra reason to. To face one of those two teams. And that's where the Pelicans sit. To me, they're the likeliest to be the five. What, what do you think about maybe, you know, the big picture on the rest of their season? Maybe how their schedule looks what you think? Like, do you feel like they have the inside track at the five and then once they get there, like, how do you feel about them in a playoff setting, playoff environment, particularly against potentially a Minnesota or a Clippers?
- [11:33]
Will Guillory
Yeah, I think that's really the most interesting thing with this team now because I think for so much of the season their goal was we just want to dodge the play in.
- [11:40]
Sam Amick
Right.
- [11:40]
Will Guillory
They've been in the play in two years in a row. Last year they lost the 910 game and ended their season immediately. And I think it was a shock to the system for them because they had that experience the previous year where they went through the play and won it, they made the playoffs. It was like this glorious moment for Willie Green and Brandon Ingram. And I think last year it really was a shock to the system and I think they wanted to really be above that playing line. But you mentioned it. I think they're put. They put themselves in a really good position to get that 5 seed out where they're not as worried about dropping below 6. And if anything, they're starting to creep up and get closer to the Clippers for number four with a game on Friday coming up against the Clippers in New Orleans, where if they win that game now, you're within like one and a half games of the four seed.
- [12:24]
Anthony Slater
Do they have the tiebreaker over the Clippers?
- [12:26]
Will Guillory
They beat them twice this year. It's 2:1. So they win.
- [12:30]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, if you win, that's a double. That's a double win.
- [12:33]
Will Guillory
Exactly. So it's a. It's a major game on Friday. And that game on Friday will be the Clippers fifth and seven nights. And they're going through a little bit of a road trip now. They play tonight against Chicago.
- [12:43]
Anthony Slater
Not only that, I think we all saw it, but Kawhi Leonard just like left the arena and like the first half the other night with. With, what do they call it, like, thoracic spasm, which, you know, that sounds a little concerning. Number one. Number two, like, for sure makes them a more appealing target to face in the first round.
- [13:01]
Will Guillory
No doubt. Yeah, I'm hoping my bag doesn't start flaring up in the pot. I might just dip on all guys.
- [13:07]
Sam Amick
Management, no load management. By the way. Sorry, Will, real quick. Clippers, man, seven and eight in their last 15. So they're dipping at the wrong time.
- [13:19]
Will Guillory
Yeah. And I think, you know, with the Clippers, it's always that question of when will the Kawhi injury pop up? Right. When will the Paul George injury pop up? And they've been able to avoid it all season and now it's kind of happening at the wrong time with them. And like I said, they got a huge game against the Pals in New Orleans. They're going to be on the second night of a back to back. Will Kawhi play in that game with the back issue he's dealing with? I think him and Harden are questionable going into tonight's game against Chicago. So we'll see if one or maybe both of those guys end up sitting in New Orleans. And that'll be a huge story, you know, with them kind of fighting for a potential, you know, four seed there. So I think the Pels are in a really good spot to really hold on to five and maybe even push up to four if things go right. But I think if you look a little further into their schedule, they got a very, very important stretch where they come back home where they play. I believe it's okc, Boston, Milwaukee, Phoenix. Four straight games in New Orleans, one of the toughest four game stretches any team will face this season. And I think that'll be a major test for this team. Not only can they continue to hold on to their spot, but just how they match up against some of the best teams in the league, I think that'll be an important test for them to be like, okay, we kind of know who we are now with this new version of Zion. We feel pretty good about where we are, but when we play the best teams in the league in our home arena, how do we stand up? How do we match up against those teams? I think it'll be a major, you know, moment for that team to see where they are.
- [14:45]
Sam Amick
Will a quick follow for me before we find our way to some of the other teams we're going to talk about. I want more thoughts from you on Zion and then also the future of the Pels and what is at stake this off season and organizationally, how they might see it. So on the Zion front, from a human standpoint, I wonder. You can't speak for the. The young guy, but. And he's not as young as he used to be. Like, I wonder, you know, to what degree Zion realizes that the dream and the vision of being that guy in the NBA and being one of the faces of the league feels like it might be slipping away. And his level of motivation within that, you know, when he says things like he did recently about how, you know, if I get in the all star team, I'll be in the slam dunk contest. First of all, like, I have no problem with that, that. That kind of narrative. I thought that was great. Like, we need people in the slam dunk contest. Sounds good. Is he politicking? Of course. Who cares? That's fine. But it also, it shows a little ounce of desperation where it's like gimmicky, like, hey, don't forget about me. You know, I want to be part of this all star party, too. So start there with Zion. Like, how aware and how cognizant do you feel like he is about the personal stakes here in this season, these next few months, and the way he's going to be talked about within the league?
- [15:59]
Will Guillory
Oh, no, I think he is very aware that his star has kind of dimmed a little bit from where he was a couple years ago. I mean, I still remember that first game he played, you know, his rookie year, and just the pandemonium it was, how crazy the arena was. They gave out T shirts like it was a playoff game. They had a million cameras following him everywhere he went. And now, you know, a lot of these road games, there's barely any media in there trying to talk to Zion. And I think it's a much different world for him. I think. I think, honestly, I think he kind of prefers it this way. I think he would prefer, you know, at this point to kind of do a lot of his work in the shadows and kind of get himself back right before he gets a lot of that judgment that he got during the in season tournament. But there's no doubt that he wants to be, you know, considered one of the best players in his league. He wants to be looked at as a superstar. He wants to. He wants everybody to care about him as much as they care about Wemby or Chet or, you know, Anthony Edwards or some of these other big young stars in the league. But he knows he's got a lot of work to do to kind of prove everybody wrong and to make up for a lot of the stuff that he did to drop down to where he is now, whether it be the weight, whether it be missing games, whether it be, you know, the Pelicans not making the playoffs last year. He knows he's got a lot of work to do, and I think they're working to get that right. And I think for him, the big thing is just being a part of a Pelicans team. You heard me talk about this before, that the chemistry is so high with this team, and these guys really love playing together. And I think he really enjoys just being a part of this group and just being a part of a team that feels like they're kind of building towards something. These guys have been together for two or three years together now, and I think he really enjoys that type of camaraderie that. That kind of college field that they have in the New Orleans locker room. So, yeah, I think he cares very much so about, you know, getting back to being a star, but I think he just loves what this team is building, and I think he wants to see how far they can go. And I don't think he's kind of walking around like, yeah, I got to carry this team for us to get somewhere. I think he loves what they have as a group, and he understands that he's got to be really good for them to get where they need to go.
- [17:59]
Sam Amick
Now, organizationally, what is the strategy? What is the view? Because we all know every single team has its own internal expectations and that threshold where if X scenario unfolds, owner and front office will be unhappy and they will consider significant changes. So if the Pelicans get bounced in the first round, if, for their sake, God forbid, they fall back into play in territory and don't even make the playoffs. You know, you talk about Zion enjoying the. The building and the growth, but how long is this Runway for this group as currently constructed, you know? You know, depending on the results, how do you think the organization sees it?
- [18:39]
Will Guillory
Oh, no, no, there's no doubt. I mean, I feel like I said it's every offseason with the pillows, but I think they're at a major crossroads going into this summer. When you look at a potential Brandon Ingram extension that they're going to hope to get done this summer, a potential Trey Murphy extension that they hope to get done this summer, and you already paying Zion 30 million. You're already paying C.J. mcCollum $30 million, and you got Jonas Valentoulas hitting unrestricted free agency, your starting center. So there's a lot of big money decisions this team is going to have to make during the off season. And we say this all the time with the Pelicans. This is the organization that has never paid the luxury tax. This is a team that's not necessarily a championship contender quite yet. So can you convince ownership to pay for a roster that's maybe the fifth seed in the west, maybe first round, to get bounced? Are you willing to pay, you know, into the luxury tax to have that team? I think that's a big question. I think, you know, how do they feel about the Trio of Zion, C.J. and Brandon Ingram. Can those guys be the core of a team that has championship aspirations? I think when you look at the numbers throughout this year, they're just about even as far as plus minus. They're not like, you know, destroying teams when those three are out there together. I think they've improved throughout the season, but they still got a lot of room to grow just finding out how those three sit together. So I think, yeah, it's a major, you know, crossroads for this team, especially going into the playoffs, to see just how good they look. Ken Zion be the best guy in a playoff series, and if so, that changes your mindset as far as what the potential is for this team once they get into the Western Conference playoffs. Can they be the surprise team that makes it to the Western Conference finals? To be honest, I really don't know because, you know, one night they look amazing, the next night they kind of look like they did last night against the Cavs. I think that's been a story for this team throughout the year, that they're so inconsistent. But when they are playing well, you kind of see what this team has in mind as far as having two great players.
- [20:40]
Anthony Slater
Sam, we've been at how many likes Pelican.
- [20:43]
Sam Amick
I was gonna say, as long as they play the Kings, they will get out of around.
- [20:46]
Anthony Slater
They destroyed the warriors in Golden State when I was there. Like, they do seem to like when they play well, like, blow teams out.
- [20:53]
Will Guillory
Yeah, there's no doubt. And like, I was in Philly the other day and they were up 40 to 15 on the Sixers in the first half.
- [21:00]
Anthony Slater
They were completely 20 on the Heat wasn't like 50 to 20. Well, maybe that was a Sixers game. I saw 50 to 20 at one point.
- [21:07]
Will Guillory
Yeah, I think that was the Sixers game. And in the end of the game, the Sixers were within four points in the fourth quarter. So literally it goes from half to half. They'll look amazing. And then they go five minutes without being able to score a bucket.
- [21:19]
Sam Amick
We saw that at the. At the Ist, right?
- [21:22]
Will Guillory
Yeah. They look great against the Kings. Two nights before they destroy them in Sacramento. Then they fly into Vegas, maybe spend a few, you know, a little too much time at the slot machines, and then they play the Lakers.
- [21:35]
Sam Amick
Slot machines, huh? That's what they're doing.
- [21:37]
Will Guillory
Yeah, I'll be. I'll keep it PG rating since this Fred isn't here. Yeah.
- [21:42]
Anthony Slater
Where would Fred have them On a Vegas?
- [21:45]
Will Guillory
Yeah, I'm willing to bet, friend. I have some different thoughts on where they were in Vegas, but Yeah, they might have spent a little bit too much time out. And then I love bagging on friend when he's not here. So we.
- [21:57]
Sam Amick
I think we like to call him Matthew. Will, come on now.
- [22:00]
Will Guillory
Oh, yeah, that's my bad. He is Matthew.
- [22:02]
Sam Amick
All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump in real quick. Sorry that was abrupt. Will. We got a lot of ground to cover. I do love, man, the Pels. Let's be honest. Nationally, they. It's tough to get the Pels to Needle, but the Zion discussion, it just remains relevant. Thank you for shedding light on that. You know, I mean, I want the best for that guy, man. Like. Like you, I hate seeing talent not get maximized. And, you know, whether it's Point Zion, I've seen some criticism in the media of, like, well, he's not this, you know, incredible, special, dynamic version of the guy that we thought we were going to see coming out of Duke, in fact, and I love this guy's commentary. But Tim Legler at ESPN had been breaking down how it's, you know, the days of, you know, Zion being that guy are behind him. And it was like somehow a negative spin on what he'd been doing. This Point Zion thing, it's. It's a team game. He's making an impact. They're finding creative ways to use him. He's playing good ball. We'll see if he can continue it. I am going to pivot. You know, Slater is hanging in Dallas, you know, and I'm sure that, you know, being that close to his. His favorite city in the country, OKC got the okay state roots, you know, not too far down the road. Slater, your. Your Thunder, which you have been doing a really nice job putting your old Thunder beat rider hat on lately and trying to tell their story. Let's talk about them a bit, because at the top of the west almost, you know, like you said, Denver nudged ahead of them. You know, it's this OKC team that, like, Will, it's funny, we talk about the Pelicans having a short Runway. I. In 20 years covering the league, I do not remember a rebuilding team, you know, creating a Runway that was not only this long, but this wide. Like, if you want to go ahead and. And jump from one PJ to the other and. And try a different plane next year, you can, because you have optionality all over the place. Sam Presti's got the cupboard of assets still full. He's got Shay Gilgis Alexander playing MVP caliber basketball. And. And guys, we are really, really, really Deep into the season. And the Thunder are proving to be legit. So now the conversation, I think, becomes, who are they right now? Who might they be in the postseason? Slater, take it away. Just what are you seeing out of the. The Thunder in this incredible surprise story here?
- [24:13]
Anthony Slater
Well, they're now the top two rookie of the year and a top two MVP, which hasn't been done since 01 02. Can you guys guess who those two were? Same team. Top two MVP. Top two rookie of the year, 01 02. This you're not gonna guess. So I.
- [24:30]
Sam Amick
That's too old for. I was thinking the spurs with Kawhi.
- [24:33]
Anthony Slater
How about this? New Jersey Nets.
- [24:35]
Will Guillory
Oh, wow.
- [24:36]
Sam Amick
What?
- [24:36]
Will Guillory
Canyon and Jason Kidd.
- [24:38]
Anthony Slater
Jason Kidd, mvp, number two behind Tim Duncan and Richard Jefferson.
- [24:43]
Sam Amick
I was gonna say rj.
- [24:44]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, yeah. Rookie of the year, number one behind or number two behind Pau Gasol won Rookie of the Year that year. So that's how long ago it was. And I think it's, you know, CHAT is not gonna beat wimby, I think we all, at this point believe. But he's pretty much locked into two with Shay.
- [24:59]
Sam Amick
We gotta talk about that some other time, by the way.
- [25:01]
Will Guillory
Okay.
- [25:02]
Anthony Slater
I mean, do you think CHAT should have a legitimate case?
- [25:05]
Sam Amick
I need to dive into all of it. That's fine. We'll keep it. Okay. See, but yeah, we can talk. Chad, for a second. I. I'm. First of all, I'm a little guilty personality wise. Like, yes, I can be. It's not a matter of being a contrarian, but when the, when the whole room starts saying, oh, if you don't do this, you know, you're not even paying attention. There is some of that with Wemby. And my thing is, like, let's just make sure that we are properly processing the impact that the hype is having on voters. That's all I'm saying. Like, you've got to find a way to completely remove the hype from the conversation. And I will admit, and spurs fans have already come at me for this a little bit that, like, you know, I'm struggling with that. Because if you think about the way we talked about Victor coming into this season, you know, the. And then you try to juxtapose that or reconcile that with the idea that the spurs this late in the year would have 12 or 13 wins, whatever.
- [26:00]
Anthony Slater
They have, like, I'm sorry, 15, I think. 15.
- [26:04]
Sam Amick
You know, it's just not, you know, And I've seen him up close personally, lately, he's been dealing with health stuff and that, you Know that timing has been bad. He, you know, Shangoon kind of ate him for lunch recently in Houston. Then he find out that he was ailing during that game. So, you know, there's a lot of layers there. But I guess to bring it back to okc, Ched has been incredibly special and he's done it to winning, but he's, but even on his own, I mean his, you know, the numbers are remarkable and, and he's acting like a five year vet out there.
- [26:35]
Anthony Slater
So he's played in every game too, by the way, which coming off the, you know, his rookie year where he has the foot injury and you know, you worry about, you know, the tall big man, you know, you know, can he physically, you know, shoulder what is needed as really the lone center on that, you know, in that rotation. And he's played every game and he's gonna probably get to 200 blocks. Him and Wimby are gonna get over 200 blocks, which they'll be the first rookie since Tim Duncan and you know, whatever year that was, I think 98 to do that. You know, I wrote a story on, on kind of what I was talking about this whole, you know, they have the now of the MVP in the future with this will be their second straight season with number two rookie of the year. Or you know, maybe Chet finishes first because Jalen Williams did it last year. But Jalen Williams and Dort told me a funny story about, you know, Chet misses all of last season, but he's cleared for live contact right before the play in game against the Pelicans Will being here. And they went, they, they had a scout team practice and at the scout team practice because Chet had just been cleared, they're like, chet, can you play home play Brandon Ingram? And. And Chet was so hyped up because he, you know, he hadn't gone live. Like his teammates hadn't really even seen him live yet. And they're like, dude, he started killing us as Brandon Ingram. And we, and they were like in that moment we're focused on like, all right, we're going to try to beat the Pelicans. And ended up beating the Belgians. It was a really nice win for them. That kind of boosted them in the next season. But you know, Dort was in the moment like, that guy's gonna help next year, you know, and we've seen that this year he kind of has been that next piece to the rim protection aspect, which has them as a top five defense, but also 16, 17 points per game on high efficiency. He can go his games, you know, you know, shooting 11 shots all, you know, but I was there the other night they lost to the Pacers at home. That's why they've now slipped out of the one seed. And no Jalen Williams in that game because he had, you know, kind of tweaked his ankle. And I do kind of wonder about Chet's long term ceiling as you know, that next level of score on nights that Jalen Williams isn't there. Can you, can you throttle up that usage? Can you become like a 24, 25, 26 point per game type guy when needed? But those are the long term questions about this team right now. You know, they, they, they look prime for potentially a playoff run. I mean, I know teams down there would rather face them than the Nuggets, but, you know, be careful what you wish for. You're going to be going into a, I think what will be a frothing arena there. Right. You know, getting the playoffs back. We know what that arena has been historically.
- [29:02]
Sam Amick
How are, how are your, your old buddies out there, Slater, like fan wise? How is, I mean, you know, I haven't been out there a lot since the post Katie Rust days.
- [29:11]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, you know, I do. Look, I just went to a Sunday game where they whooped up the Grizzlies who had nobody out there, and then I saw them lose to the Pacers on a Tuesday night. Like, those aren't marquee games. But, you know, Andrew is welcome to hop in because I know he was at the games too. It's, it's not what it was in its prime. I think when you talk to people around there, they're like the newness has worn off. You know, those Durant Westbrook teams were just like, they just had a pro team dropped in their city at the time. There was just like, there was just so much fresh excitement that's not there. It takes the crowd a little bit more time to get revved up. But they're, you know, they're filling it up pretty good and you know, they do get going. They don't have that Russell Westbrook, you know, cranking the, cranking the energy. Because who does like prime Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City? I'm not sure everybody, anybody turned up an arena quite well.
- [29:57]
Sam Amick
He had me ready, man. Yeah, like pounding my laptop.
- [30:00]
Will Guillory
Yeah, he was crazy back then.
- [30:02]
Anthony Slater
But, you know, good, I would say good crowds and I would really expect like game one, round one in there because, you know, Sam Presti's got this notable quote from a couple Years ago. We're talking about the rebuild where he said he didn't want their next playoff, you know, showing to be an appearance. He wanted it to be an arrival. And I do think that's what he's built right. This does. It feels like it's going to be an arrival for this core, and I think the fans will sense that they're not coming to the arena. Like, oh, wow, it's nice to have playoff basketball. Like, I think they're coming, like, this is the beginning of the next era of Thunder playoff basketball. And I mean, it's. It obviously is, right. You have MVP candidate and two potential future. Future All Stars, and then all the picks that we're talking about.
- [30:43]
Sam Amick
Yes.
- [30:44]
Will Guillory
I do want to ask one thing, because we're talking about Chet now. And I. And I agree that, you know, we don't give Chet quite enough credit because everybody's so much on the Wemby hype train, and rightfully so. I mean, Wemby, that's kind of taking this game to the next level. But one of the more interesting things for me with OKC going into this playoff run is we talked a lot going into the trade deadline about OKC has all these assets. They can go get anybody they want, pretty much. But do they want to really go make a big move that they love? These young guys that they have, they want to stick with this core, and they kind of decided to trade that line that we're not going to really do anything major. We're going to bring in Gordon Hayward, we're going to bring in Bismack, Biyombo, Moscala. We're going to bring him back to okc. And, like, watching them, I feel like the Gordon Hayward move really hasn't moved the needle the way they hope.
- [31:33]
Anthony Slater
He started for Jalen Williams the other night, and just. He doesn't look like himself.
- [31:37]
Will Guillory
He just doesn't look like the same guy.
- [31:38]
Anthony Slater
He's not shooting at all. Like, he'll be out there for like, eight straight minutes, and you're like, oh, 0 for 0 from the field.
- [31:44]
Will Guillory
Yeah. And my question is, if you get into a real playoff series.
- [31:48]
Anthony Slater
Yeah.
- [31:48]
Will Guillory
Where there are real stakes, and you're starting to look down that bench and you see Isaiah Joe, Kenny Hussle, and I'm a huge Kenny Hustle guy. Aaron Wiggins, are these guys you're going.
- [31:58]
Anthony Slater
To throw into really good.
- [32:01]
Will Guillory
I like Casey Wallace as well.
- [32:03]
Anthony Slater
I could see all these guys you.
- [32:04]
Will Guillory
Can trust on a big stage to give them quality minutes, is my question.
- [32:08]
Anthony Slater
Well, I mean, one of the biggest questions that you're more talking about is like, to me, they have like a really sturdy playoff for which is the three we've mentioned, plus Dort. I mean, Dort is like a playoff player. But now this whole Giddy thing, every defense now is trending towards leaving him because you have to pick something on that, that team. And there's been times where Mark Dagnall, I mean the Clippers, a game that's most famous, were when he, he replaced Giddey in the second half of the starting lineup with Isaiah Joe for more spacing. And it worked and they'll be those options. But you're, you're right in a sense that Gordon Hayward, I don't think, you know, has filled that versatile, you know, stretch wing who can play make just because he doesn't look quite like himself. But I mean, at the deadline, what they did was they, they traded some of their future contracts for Gordon Hayward who's expiring. So they have a one. You know, they have cap space this summer because of that move. I do think they want to find out about Giddy in the playoffs because there's still plenty of like internal belief in like just getting the talent. You know, he, he played really well in one of the games. I was there. They, Somebody mentioned, hey look, we played two basically playoff games before, if you include, if you talk about the play in games. And Josh Giddy was the best player in the Pelicans game, right? Will, I mean, you were there. Wasn't it a 30 point triple double he had?
- [33:20]
Will Guillory
He was sensational in that game. He was.
- [33:22]
Anthony Slater
Now you wonder about the fit just, you know, because he's having to play more off the ball. You know, he can't have the ball that much, which is what he's best at on that team because, because of Shade, Jalen Williams needing it more, Chad, even at times. But I think this is the year they want to find out about their youth. Right. This isn't necessarily the year they were expecting to hunt down a title. You know, if a West finals run happens, it happens. But I think they have flexibility going into the summer. But yeah, if we're just purely talking about. But you know, a potential 27 against whatever team. They, yeah, they got some weaknesses to pick at, but I think they want to find out about those weaknesses before they make the big move. Right.
- [34:01]
Sam Amick
I'm gonna splice in in the same vein that we just did a little bit with the rookie of the year. Discussion aside, I'm gonna splice in a little OKC MVP talk because I want your guys opinions not necessarily on the race at large. I mean I do but, but you know, where Shay fits. You know we joke about our buddy Mr. Katz. You know, last week he, he came at me Will, when I had the audacity to put Anthony Edwards in the same sentence as how dare I, how dare I. Because wind shares baby. But he's having a remarkable year. The efficiency is through the roof. The two way play. You know, I actually would love to drill down a little bit from both you guys on, you know, on Shea and, and how much credit he deserves on the defensive end. He's, you know, he's leading league in steals, tied with Marcus Smart 2.1 a game. But we also know deflections are maybe a better indicator. But you know, I want perspective on how his defense should be, you know, factored into his MVP case. I, I would handicap that. He doesn't get it. It feels like Joker is, is going to be the guy at this point.
- [35:05]
Anthony Slater
But Vegas has Jokic as like the increased favorite, you know, but it's if people know odds, I think he's at something like minus 250, something like that, which is like a pretty significant favorite. But Shay is right behind. Shay has separated himself as two according to the odd Lakers.
- [35:21]
Sam Amick
Right, but how do you guys see it? Just opinion wise, just you know, how, what kind of year he's had and, and you know, should he shock the world and be the MVP this year?
- [35:31]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, I would say the efficiency is incredible. You know, like in the basically near 50, 40, 90, he's not quite at 40, not quite at 90. But like if you just look at, you know, not to. We don't want to go to friend cats here but his true shooting percentage for a perimeter score, you know, 64 is like really unbelievable. Very low turnover because he plays this like kind of, you know, controlled pace. Right. And I know it's something Diagno likes to talk about. Like when you just have high efficiency shooter who very rarely turns the ball over, you're just. Your points per possession are going to be really good. He's getting others involved more. And then you mentioned it leads the league and steals pretty easily. And also just you know, unlike some of the other, you know, heliocentric type scorers in the league, you can't pick on him on the other end. You know, you're not like let's get Shay on a switch. Like he's six, six long, great hands, you know, talking to Dort who kind of is one of their Stoppers. He's like, look, if they like, you know, we're running a switching scheme, I feel great. Like, yeah, sure, Shay, go ahead and switch on him. Which, which I don't think you can do with a lot of, you know, some of the other guys in the league. So I do think that bolsters his case, that two way ability, fifth best.
- [36:42]
Sam Amick
Defensive rating in the league and not to get distracted on the offensive side.
- [36:47]
Anthony Slater
But Andrew Slack said it, it leads the league in deflections too. There's another advanced number.
- [36:53]
Will Guillory
Indeed.
- [36:53]
Anthony Slater
But Cats would be happy with the segment.
- [36:55]
Sam Amick
Indeed. Yeah. I mean, you know, and then third in offense, that whole top five offense defense thing, we know that's, it's a pretty good box to check when it comes.
- [37:03]
Anthony Slater
He has to. For him to legitimately, you know, beat Jokic for mvp though, I think they have to be the one seat they can't be under Denver in the standings.
- [37:13]
Sam Amick
I mean, I'll be honest, you. Sorry. Well, I want you to jump in. But Jokic is always maybe prime for like, I mean, I mean, you know, he sometimes just decides the playoffs are around the corner. He does coast every once in a while. He does. You know, in fact, last year there's kind of this sense that like he got so tired of the MVP conversation around him and Joel embiid that, that he kind of got turned off by it and said, wake me up when the playoffs are here. And his numbers down the stretch reflected that he could fall off a bit. If OKC is in one seed and if Shay, you know, kind of pushes through the tape, so to speak, then who knows? Will, how do you see it?
- [37:48]
Will Guillory
No, I think you hit it right on the head. I think Jokic is pretty much, you know, separated himself from the pack and I think right behind him, Shai has separated himself from everybody else. And I think with Shay, I think one of the things that, you know, that's so impressive to me is just the consistency. Every single night is 30 points, six rebounds, five assists, two steals, just every single day.
- [38:10]
Sam Amick
Consistency. Will, didn't you hear his life is consistency.
- [38:13]
Will Guillory
Yes, exactly. It's wild because when we talk about young dudes, a lot of times it's, you know, they, they look amazing one night and then they'll take another night off or, you know, they'll have 45 in this game and then they'll have 21 the next game. And with Shay, it's, it's rarely 45, 50 point games, but it's never 21, 22. Like it's just always 36 rebounds, five assists, which is crazy for a guy his age and a guy with his game. Right. He spent so much time driving to the basket, getting hit, you know, getting fouled. There's a lot of people, you know, criticize Shay for being a quote unquote foul merchant, but I think just the physicality he plays with night to night, and he keeps showing up, he keeps scoring buckets, he keeps coming right at you. And I think that's been so impressive with him. And y'all said it. His defense, I don't think it's enough credit. Just the fact that they have zero weaknesses in that starting five. When it talks about just who you're defending, who you want to attack, who you want to put in pick and roll, I think they feel comfortable with any of those guys defending basically anybody. And I think that's a big part of their success as well. So, yeah, I think Faye's been super duper impressive. I love what he's done this year. I think it's amazing where they're at, but I just can't put him over Jokic quite yet. Just because Jokic is so good and he's just. It just feels like he just keeps getting better every time we watch him. It's crazy. I saw him the other day come back, they were down by like 18 or something like that at home. I forgot against Hooland, he just immediately brought them back into that game and he ended up winning. It's just something that they do every night. And I think you're right. The one thing that we need to watch down the stretch run is does Denver get bored and eventually give up that one seed? And I think that may open the door for Shay to sneak in and maybe get that mvp.
- [39:57]
Sam Amick
All right, guys, both of you got to get going relatively soon here, so I want to pivot and cover some more ground. Let's do this as a final segment, and it's going to be scattered and hopefully good, well, quick hitters, but also just kind of where we've been. We're always in arenas and we're seeing stuff. So I'm going to shift a little bit to the. To the East. I saw the Bucks get their heads beat in by the warriors at the front end of their west coast road trip. Quick side story, you know, I'm always trying to connect with guys and get their perspective, big picture. So talked to Dame at Shoot around, talked about connecting after the game to get his thoughts, and it was absolutely not surprised or upset about the fact that when they lost by 35 that particular night. Dame didn't end up doing media, and I don't blame him. Like, I mean, yes, I shouldn't say that as a member of the pbwa, but, you know, they. They had a bad night and it was like, all right, bad start to the road trip, then fast forward, excuse me. I did not go with them to la, but they beat the Clippers without. I think, without Paul George, without Kawhi. So, okay, nice win, but you didn't really beat the Clippers. They lose to the Lakers without LeBron. When Dame, you know, is trying to get that one last stop, and I think it was DLO in hitting a floater in the lane, they lose that game, they come to Sacramento. And it was kind of the inverse of the Dame experience on the front end for me, where I talked to Giannis, that shoot around said, hey, big fella, you got some time post game to talk, and. And he didn't end up chatting, but they got their heads beat in again. The point being they just went 1 and 3 on this road trip. And what Giannis and I talked about at length and in the story that went up today at the Athletic, and I do, admittedly, I love talking to the guy. He's so thoughtful. You know, he's. He's gonna bring big picture perspective. He's gonna surprise you with different ways that he sees things, you know, but basketball wise guys, the Bucks are not in a great place. They were playing good ball before this trip. Now those questions are, are, you know, kind of front and center again. So I guess, you know, the takeaway for me on the Bucks is like, man, we talk about contenders and. And timing as the playoffs near, it's just not a great time. The. The coaching staff seemed a little frustrated coming out of this trip with Doc Rivers in that group trying to find the answers. You know, Giannis, you know, it's funny I brought up MVP with him, right? Because like I said earlier, like, if you. If you kind of put the blinders on and study what he's done this year, you know, And Eric Naim made this case recently on the podcast, like, he's had an incredible year, but nobody is talking about that because of the optics around the Bucks. How do you guys see this team? Because they have got so much talent and seemingly so much angst. It's just a very, very weird Bucks experience this year now.
- [42:47]
Anthony Slater
I mean, I can see them, like, making a run, but also losing in the first round, which we could probably say about, you know, most Teams in the league, they feel flawed. They feel, as you said, not right. I was in the arena when they got blasted by 35 by the Warriors, But I could also see us sitting here watching them being up to one on the Celtics in like a East finals or east second round, because Giannis is just physically dominant. You know, he is just. Can. Can be so good. And I still like a lot of their surrounding talent, but, yeah, I mean, it's just me. I don't know.
- [43:27]
Will Guillory
Yeah. With them, I mean, I just have two major questions. One, does Chris Middleton still play basketball? I mean, is he. Where. Where is he?
- [43:36]
Sam Amick
He's coming.
- [43:37]
Will Guillory
Have him in hiding. I mean, I don't. I don't think they could be a real contender in the east without Chris Middleton being a major factor for them. And the other one is just like we talk about the consistency of Shay and just how the Thunder know exactly what they're getting from Shay every single night. I feel like it's the exact opposite with Dame Lillard this year. The Bucks don't know what they're getting from Dane on any given night. He might drop 40, he might have 12. And I think it's just been the underlying. One of the big disappointments of this Bucs season is that I just don't think they got the Dame that they thought they were going to get when they made that massive move in the offseason. And we can talk about the reasons behind that, whether it's the way they use him, whether, you know, he's on a decline, whether, you know, he's maybe a little bit bored living in Milwaukee. I don't know. But I do think that he just hasn't been the same guy. And if he's not that guy that we saw last year in Portland, I don't know if they can beat Boston or maybe even, like, a healthy Knicks team just because they're going to have to lean so much on Giannis. And as great as Giannis is, we've seen in the past great Giannis by himself isn't enough to win in the East. He needs some help from those other guys. And as much as I love Dane, he just hasn't done enough for them this year for me to really consider them a serious threat to, like I said, a Boston or a healthy Knicks team.
- [45:01]
Sam Amick
Yeah, that part has been strange. I'll be honest. I'm talking to Giannis in the locker room last night, and. And you guys can relate. You know, when you have questions you would love to ask, and you kind of just Decide, you know, it's just the time's not right. Like, I literally said, I want to be like, Yanis, like, can this work with Dame? Like, can this work? Like, let's be like, what do you think? And the reality is, out of respect, you choose not to ask the question because just let them. Let him keep figuring it out. We'll talk in the playoffs. We'll see what happens. But, man, you know, we. You alluded to this, Will. We did talk a bit about what Dame has been going through. I brought up what he's been going through off the court. You know, he's been open with people, including Vinnie Goodwill, Yahoo Sports, about going through a divorce, not being around his kids. And, and, and, man, you know, I don't know if it comes through in the written version of the conversation, but, but feeling Giannis kind of somewhat, not uncomfortably, but like, very sensitively navigate that topic where he was like, he didn't really want to address the, the life stuff for Dame because that's his business, but it's there. And then he focused on the encore where he said, forget, like, put that on the side, the off the court stuff for a minute on the court. He talked about how you play all these years in Portland, you play a certain kind of way. You don't have guys around you who can make plays like this Bucks team does. Just basketball wise, it's been a massive adjustment. And to, to, you know, within all that, to look at Giannis's individual season and me kind of admit to him, like in a paraphrasing, but basically like, damn, man. Like, I'm sorry, I didn't really realize you were having an incredible year. And then it's like, oh, by the way, you're not going to be the mvp. Like, it's just. I don't think it's going to happen. You know, it was, it was a strange conversation and you could, you could feel what they're going through.
- [46:44]
Anthony Slater
All right, I'll give you a quick hit or quick. I was in Dallas for Warriors Maps last night and you were in Sacramento for Kings, Lakers. And I think that night, last night further solidified. And I'm doing this for Will. He was begging for Warriors, Lakers talk. I think last night really was beginning to more solidify that we're probably gonna have Lakers, Warriors 9, 10 playing. Loser goes home. Winner still doesn't even get advance in the eight. They'd have to win another game. But just if you look at the standings, if you look at, you know, how last night played out the trends where these teams are going, the tiebreaker situations where the warriors don't have a tiebreaker over the King, Suns or Mavericks. It's, you know, it's trouble for those two teams because not only are you going to have to play out of the 910 likely if you're the Lakers and Warriors, but then you have to win another game on the road, and then that is to just probably get into the eight and face Denver, we'd probably think, at this point. And you'd have to like 36 hours later go into Denver for game one, even if you escape that. So that's trouble for the big brands in the NBA.
- [47:52]
Sam Amick
Not trouble for the. Sorry, the mic just went loud there. Not trouble for the marketing folks of the NBA. Steph versus LeBron.
- [47:59]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, tournament. Seth versus LeBron. But loser gets zero playoff games.
- [48:02]
Sam Amick
No doubt.
- [48:03]
Anthony Slater
Is that good?
- [48:04]
Sam Amick
Well, the logistics that you highlighted, too, we sometimes forget about how challenging it can be coming out of that 910. All right, Will, any sights and sounds you want to share at the tail end here from your arena excursions of late, or we can let you go. We appreciate you being on, brother.
- [48:20]
Will Guillory
No, my quick hitter, I would say, is just my other team that I cover, the Miami Heat, and they're just kind of lurking like always. Jimmy's, you know, doing his thing. He's ramping up leading into the playoffs. Bam has been playing incredible basketball this year. I think he's a serious, you know, should be in discussion for defensive player of the year. But once again, I think the. We're going to have a discussion around Miami that kind of centers around where does Tyler Hero fit in this thing? You know, how much do they. How much do they need Tyler Hero? Should they start Tyler Hero? Can you play Tyler Herro and Terry Rozier together in a playoff series and have a competent defense? These past couple weeks, they've been starting Nikola jovic at the 4. Can you continue to do that in the playoffs? Did they move Jaime Hawkes into the start lineup or Caleb Martin? I think they're going to have some serious questions about just what the. The configuration of that teams looks like when we get into the playoffs. But I mean, as always, I continue to say, every time people ask me about the Heat, I say if Jimmy, Bam and Spo walk into your building, you're in the danger zone because those guys knew how to win playoff games, and I don't think they care who they get matched up with. If those three guys walk into the building, they feel pretty good. But as of right now it look like they may be back in that play in which isn't great. But again, they're going to always be lurking and with Jimmy and Bam playing the way they are, I think they're going to be dangerous again.
- [49:40]
Sam Amick
I love it man. I'll let you all get out on this, but I do Will, I love the fact that that Boston and Milwaukee specifically are going to have to lose sleep over the heat being around. You know what I mean? Like, like whatever the matchups end up looking like, like yes, a world still does exist where they will build another damn wall and Giannis won't be able to get through it. Or the Celtics with this incredibly dominant season that they've had, you know, can sp, you know, get a little spooked when they see Jimmy and that crew across the way. So that part will be fun. This pod has been fun. I know you guys gotta go. Appreciate you Will. It's been too long. Thank you for coming on, man. Glad you're doing well. Keep killing it out there, Slater. Appreciate you and we will talk to you all next week.
- [50:33]
Will Guillory
Foreign.
- [50:40]
Discover Ad
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get discovered. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard this podcast.
- [51:06]
Aura Ad
Is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number. Sending real time alerts if your info is includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time, Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety. That's Aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [52:00]
Sam Amick
Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend it.
- [52:08]
Marc Maron
Hey, folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal.
- [52:23]
Will Guillory
Yeah.
- [52:24]
Marc Maron
I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
- [52:30]
Aura Ad
Are you afraid of it?
- [52:31]
Marc Maron
Of death?
- [52:32]
Sam Amick
Well, I don't.
- [52:32]
Marc Maron
I think about it all the time.
- [52:34]
Sam Amick
How are we here already?
- [52:35]
Marc Maron
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
- [52:49]
Sam Amick
Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [52:56]
Will Guillory
Acast.com.