Pistons cooked? + Nuggets Survive

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Pistons Cooked? + Nuggets Survive

Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Esfandiar Baraheni (“S”), special guest John Krasinski

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three major NBA storylines:

• The Orlando Magic’s stunning 3–1 series lead over the top-seeded Detroit Pistons.
• Reflections on the Oklahoma City Thunder’s sweep of the Phoenix Suns.
• The Denver Nuggets clawing back in their series against the Minnesota Timberwolves, with John Krasinski breaking down the high-tension rivalry and Game 5 developments.
• Plus, discussion on Rookie of the Year (Cooper Flagg) and the merits of postseason awards.

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Orlando Magic Upset: Pistons on the Brink

[01:43–13:06]

• Theme: The Magic, left for dead just weeks ago, are now on the verge of upsetting the #1-seeded Pistons by dominating with defense and physicality rather than offense.
• Major Points:
  • The Magic have defied all expectations, moving a game away from becoming a rare 7th/8th seed to oust a #1 seed.
    • "Just like that, they're now up 3–1 against the number one seed Detroit Pistons, looking to be the seventh eighth seed in NBA history to beat a number one seed." — S [02:26]
  • Orlando’s massive drop in points in the paint allowed—smothering Detroit’s identity.
    • Regular season: Pistons averaged 57 points in paint; vs. Orlando, just 40. “A 17-point drop-off.” — S [05:16]
  • Jalen Duren, key to the Pistons’ inside game, has been neutralized; rebounding stats directly map to game outcomes.
    • "Their entire identity, in my opinion, relies on their interior play ... That's not happening against Orlando." — Dave [04:31]
  • Orlando’s defensive versatility and size has stymied Detroit’s attack on both ends.
  • Cade Cunningham’s playoff record 24 turnovers in 3 games:
    • "Most in a three-game span in NBA playoff history. Previous record was 22, James Harden and Larry Bird." — S [07:14]
  • Host criticism of Pistons’ rotation rigidity and lack of offensive shooters down the stretch.
    • “You gotta play guys who can shoot and stretch the floor because you’re just not doing that.” — Dave [08:36]
    • Bickerstaff praised as regular season coach, but "questionable come playoff time." — Dave [09:06]
  • Highlight moment: Jamal Kane’s vicious dunk over Jalen Duren:
    • “If I haven’t seen any of the photos from it yet, but I’m hoping they got a good still… His head is above the rim. I mean, this was just an epic dunk.” — Dave [10:25]
  • The future for Detroit: the need for more offensive firepower and possible trades.
    • “They need to make a trade. They need another guy.” — Dave [11:46]
    • “Michael Porter Jr. would have helped this team.” — S [12:00]
  • Pistons dilemma: this loss is an exposure of deep flaws, not just a bad stretch.
    • “The Pistons starters have just been thoroughly outplayed by the Magic starters. That's the difference in the series.” — Dave [12:24]
  • Both hosts express doubts on Detroit’s chance to recover the series.
    • “I don't think they've got the offensive juice to come back 3–1. This isn’t the Denver Nuggets.” — Dave [11:28]

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Quick Hit: Thunder Sweep Suns

[13:06–15:02]

• Theme: The Thunder sweep with little resistance from an undermanned, overachieving Phoenix Suns squad.
• Suns were undersized, overperformed relative to low expectations. “I didn’t think they were even gonna make the play-in...turns out, pretty fun team, well-coached.” — Dave [13:43]
• Phoenix’s future uncertain: lacking cap/pick flexibility, looming Devin Booker decisions. S suggests a "long summer" for the Suns with possibility of a Booker trade to reboot for assets.
• Thunder’s first-round dominance is noted:
  • “OKC has been a buzz saw in the first round for three years in a row. They have not lost a first-round game in three years.” — S [14:37]
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander praised for postseason production.

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Rookie of the Year: Cooper Flagg

[15:02–17:30]

• Cooper Flagg edges out Khan Knipple in a closely watched, LeBron/Carmelo-esque Rookie of the Year race.
  • “Cooper Flagg is the first player to do this since LeBron James…” — S [15:47]
  • “Lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals, I believe is what it was.” — Dave [16:01]
• Some voters may have changed opinions based on late-season or play-in performances.
• Hosts debate whether major awards should include playoff impact or remain regular season only.

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Segment: Are Postseason Awards Needed?

[17:30–18:31]

• Discussion on the idea of playoff-specific awards (All-Playoff Team, etc.).
• “If we had an All-NBA playoff team, it would be a nice way to tell the story of the playoffs.” — Dave [18:08]
• Both hosts agree such honors would highlight forgotten playoff heroes.

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Nuggets-Wolves: Rivalry Heats Up

[20:12–33:50]
(w/ John Krasinski on the Timberwolves beat)

Rivalry & Atmosphere

• The Wolves-Nuggets series is the NBA’s best current rivalry:
  • “This is what fans, I think, have been craving. And here it is.” — John K. [22:25]
  • Jaden McDaniels drawn into the main stage: “We got a McDaniels sucks chant, which I feel like Jaden McDaniels has to be a little bit proud of that…He loves giving it back to them.” — John K. [21:00]
• “Salt in the wound” and “backyard games” analogies frame the rivalry as rooted in familiarity and respect, not cheap shots.

Game 5 Recap & Adjustments

• Nuggets tie series with a win; Wolves hamstrung by missing Anthony Edwards and Dante DiVincenzo.
  • “Denver’s ability to pack the paint defensively in a way they were not able to do in the first four games because they were so worried about Ant and Dante hitting threes.” — John K. [26:22]
• Wolves’ 25 turnovers, leading to 35 Nugget points, was decisive.
  • “You turn the ball over 25 times, give up 35 points, you’re not winning the game.” — John K. [27:22]
• Minnesota’s defense, previously the series’ difference maker, was overwhelmed by transition; Nuggets’ half-court scoring still limited.
• On comeback odds:
  • “They have played well enough in this series…they certainly have the recipe (to win one more game).” — John K. [29:18]
  • “It won’t shock me if Denver wins them both and moves on because of the injuries the Wolves have suffered.” — John K. [30:02]
• Wolves need better ball control, more from key players, and smart rotations without two main shooters.
  • Importance of role players stepping up at home; possible reliance on Terence Shannon’s offense.
    • “There’s no one on Denver that can stay in front of him.” — John K. [32:27]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Orlando’s defense:
  • “They’re 3, 4 and 5 can switch on just about everything, including on Cade.” — Dave [05:16]
• On Pistons’ dilemma:
  • “You want to not be reactionary about a team that just won 60 games in the regular season, but I’m curious to see how they build…” — S [12:38]
• On playoff rivalries:
  • “The people you got mad at the most were your family members and your friends that you played all the time…you know their buttons.” — John K. [24:21]
• On the Magic’s unlikely run:
  • “There’s a world where the Orlando Magic are in the Eastern Conference Finals.” — Dave [03:03]
• On post-season recognition:
  • “All-NBA playoff team would be a nice way to tell the story of the playoffs.” — Dave [18:08]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:43] Orlando Magic discussion begins.
• [06:55] Pistons’ turnovers and rebounding woes highlighted.
• [10:22] Jamal Kane dunk moment.
• [11:28] Hosts declare the Pistons likely cooked.
• [13:06] Thunder sweep Suns segment.
• [15:02] Rookie of the Year announced.
• [17:30] Playoff awards debate.
• [20:12] Nuggets-Wolves rivalry recap with John Krasinski.
• [23:10] On-court tension and rivalry context.
• [26:22] Game 5 Xs and Os breakdown.
• [29:02] Can the Wolves close?
• [32:24] Game 6 keys for Minnesota.
• [33:50] End of deep-dive content.

---

Conclusion

This episode vividly captures the NBA’s playoff chaos: from the shocking Magic-Pistons upset on the verge, to the Thunder’s quiet domination, to the gritty, drama-fueled Nuggets-Wolves series. Rich with stats, tactics, and genuine personality, the hosts blend analytics and storytelling, making it a comprehensive primer for anyone catching up on the latest NBA twists.

Transcript

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[Dave Defor]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for April 28, 2026. I'm Dave Defor here with Esperahenne. Coming up, the Magic take a 31 lead after another win over the Pistons. Cooper flags rookie of the year and John Krasinski is here to talk about the Wolves lost to the Nugget foreign. Everybody. What is up S. How are you buddy?

[Esperahenne]

Man, I am doing well for a guy who lives very close to Detroit right now.

[Dave Defor]

How about those Orlando Magic just absolutely making us all look like fools for predicting that they were gonna not even make it out of the play for

[Esperahenne]

for almost predicting their demise. You know everybody was, I mean us included two weeks ago were Talking about how the Orlando Magic were the laughing stock of the NBA. Right. Jamal Mosley going to get fired. What are the Magic going to do next? Are they going to blow it up and split up Franz Bogner and Paolo Bankero? And just like that, they're now up 3:1 against the number one seed Detroit Pistons, looking to be the seventh eighth seed in NBA history to beat a number one seed. I, I couldn't have expected this to happen. I genuinely did not expect.

[Dave Defor]

Can I, can I get crazy for a second before we talk about this game? Yeah. There's a, There's a world where the Orlando Magic are in the Eastern Conference finals.

[Esperahenne]

Yes. Yes, there is. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

I mean, listen, the Raptors are. It's two. Two with the Cavs. I don't know what's going to happen there. Yep. But with the way that the Magic have played, especially like it's the defense. Right. It's not. It's not their offense for sure because they had an awful offensive game. It was essentially a mirror image of what the Raptors did on Sunday. Yes.

[Esperahenne]

It basically just a percentage point away from being the worst shooting game in a playoff win ever. After the Raptors had just done it.

[Dave Defor]

Right.

[Esperahenne]

The night before that. Yeah, it's ugly. But also, I feel like it represents Eastern Conference basketball. I mean, there's one side of the bracket between the Detroit Pistons, Orlando Magic and Toronto Raptors that just live and die by defense. It's. It's been a lot of fun to watch, I will say, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, but do you. Do you attribute this series, the, the Magic Piston series, more to the Magic figuring things out or to the Pistons failing to figure out things?

[Dave Defor]

I mean, I, I think it's definitely a failure on the Pistons part.

[Esperahenne]

Okay.

[Dave Defor]

You know this. We've. The problems that they're running into are the problems we've talked about all season long.

[Esperahenne]

We expected these problems.

[Dave Defor]

Yes, exactly. How are they going to work around them? Was Dennis Jenkins going to be an answer? You know, Asar Thompson and his role in the offense has been shaky at best. And, and frankly, like you weren't going to survive this series, in my opinion, with Jalen Duran just not showing up. I mean, their entire identity, in my opinion, relies on their interior play on both ends, defense and offense. Right. Scoring in the paint is a big part of what, what we knew them for. That's not happening against Orlando. I mean, a lot of this is. Orlando has so much size. I mean, just across the board, you know, they're, they're 3, 4 and 5. Can, can switch on just about everything. I mean including on Cade.

[Esperahenne]

Look, I'm, I'm glad you brought up the paint presence because I agree with you. Orlando has just matched them physically and that's exactly what we've been talking about over the last week. The combination of Wendell Carter Jr. Who's had a really great series, and just the size of Paolo Banchero and the rest of the wings for Orlando have done a very, very good job of nullifying what the Pistons do. I was trying to think of stats like numbers that I could provide to you guys that would maybe contextualize this. So the Pistons and in the regular season were number one in the NBA in points. In the paint they were averaging about 57 points in the paint per game. In this series they are averaging 40 points in the paint. A 17 point drop off. And to your point earlier, Dave, a lot of that has to do with Jalen Duran. His scoring has not been there this in this series. You look at his lack of physicality, his inability to create a shot, his inability to finish in and around the basketball. They have met him physically and nothing else has. There's no counter that he has to his game. And then on the other side, rebounding. If you look at their rebounding numbers, every single game in this series, whoever wins the rebounding battle wins the game. The Magic have won three times the rebounding battles. And Detroit, they've been one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA. Particularly one of the best offensive rebounding teams too. So when the margins are so thin, when you're not able to knock down your three point shots, when you're not able to turn them over, it becomes a battle of like what are our non negotiables? And Detroit's non negotiables are non existent at this point.

[Dave Defor]

So. Yeah, also 20 turnovers.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

Yep. You're not going to win a lot of games that way. I mean it's a six point game and you had 20 turnovers. They, they wound up going six for 30 from three. Not great. Again, I mean it's not like the Magic are, are lighting the world on fire. They scored 94 points.

[Esperahenne]

I mean look, Kate Cunningham has 24 turnovers in his last three games, which is the most in a three game span in NBA playoff history. The previous record was 22 held by James Harden and Larry Bird.

[Dave Defor]

Well, the Magic starters have just completely flat out outplayed the Piston starters in this series. Just period.

[Esperahenne]

They have. Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

And the. The game that they. That the ma. That the Magic lost, I mean you just kind of throw that out the window. I think Orlando has just been flat out better. They've had just every single guy one through five has kind of had a moment in this series which is it's, you know, Jaylen Suggs, Desmond Bane had the big game. 3. Pao has been great. Franz has been very good, especially you know, like down the stretching games. Wendell Carter had a huge game. Cade's had a great game.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

What.

[Esperahenne]

Who else has a great game, a great game?

[Dave Defor]

Who else has done anything?

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, I think above everything else you're seeing and to the point of the turnovers and Cade's turnovers, at this point in the series, you're seeing the Magic pinch in a little bit more on his drives. Show help, show gap help make it a lot harder for him to get in. Into the paint, in and around the basket. And the reason for that is because no one else on the Pistons is knocking down their shots like, or taking them or, or taking them.

[Dave Defor]

They are still continuously playing non shooters. Asar Thompson doesn't attempt a 3. Jalen Duran, obviously he doesn't shoot threes. Yeah, and, and then you've got Isaiah Stewart, who, look, I understand he had four fouls, he had eight blocks in the game. He was a three point threat. Yeah, he was great. And, and listen, he, he does wind up closing the game for the last 45 seconds, but there were opportunities to bring him in. He should have been in down the stretch over Duran and I understand that politically that's going to be a tough pill to swallow, but at some point you got to play guys who can shoot and stretch the floor because you're, you're just not doing that. They were down six with a little over a minute left and had a, an opportunity to make a sub. And they rolled out Asar Thompson and Jaylen Duran again. They wind up having an empty possession because the defense just does not have to think about those guys at all. JB Biggerstaff. Very, very, very good regular season coach. Questionable come playoff time in my opinion, when you've got to make the adjustments, not just game to game. I mean it's quarter to quarter, possession to possession and just none of that in this series.

[Esperahenne]

Kind of funny also the way you describe that like Jamal Mosley might not be the greatest regular season coach, but he's an excellent playoff coach.

[Dave Defor]

Listen, game plan here has been. It's flipped play hard defense, it.

[Esperahenne]

It has defense. It. Look, it is worth noting that Franz Wagner left this game questionable, right. Dealing with an injury. I believe it was his calf. And so maybe that changes the dynamic in terms of the amount of scoring options that Orlando has. Paulo's had a really great series. We talked about Wendell Carter Jr. Desmond Bain was incredible in this game. And oh, by the way, I forgot to mention Jamal Kane.

[Dave Defor]

Oh, my gosh.

[Esperahenne]

Ended Jalen Durant back.

[Dave Defor]

What a dunk.

[Esperahenne]

Jalen Duran.

[Dave Defor]

Yes. What a dunk. It looked like something off of like NBA 2K. Yes. Cunningham on his hip, turn the corner. And Jalen Duran, to his credit, went up. He tried, but, man, he shouldn't have. If you could. If. I haven't seen any of the photos from it yet, but I'm hoping that they got a good still of. Of Jamal Kane at the top of his. His head is above the rim. I mean, he is just. I mean, this was just an epic dunk. Hopefully, by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, hopefully the clip is. Is right there.

[Esperahenne]

Yes.

[Dave Defor]

Shout out to Alex.

[Esperahenne]

I. I can't think of a better way to describe Jaylen Duran series than him getting absolutely dunked on defensively in a game where Isaiah Stewart has eight blocks for Duran to. And like, respect for him to go up for that. But Jamal Kane, incredible. Also another guy who stepped up in a big way for Orlando today. Like, again, those margins. Orlando is just constantly on top with that. So do you feel like Detroit still has a chance in this series or are you. Are you calling it a rap and it's Orlando.

[Dave Defor]

I don't think that they've got the offensive juice to come back. Three 1. This isn't the Denver Nuggets. Who we'll talk about.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, we'll talk about.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah, I don't think that they have the offensive juice to do it. I think it's over and I don't know.

[Esperahenne]

I think we're summer, man. They have to pay Jalen Duran. They have to figure out what this future is.

[Dave Defor]

They need to make a trade. They need another guy. I mean, maybe they should call, call up the Thunder, see if. Can you get Jalen Williams? I mean, they're going to have to get rid of guys at some point. You know, their whole. That whole team's going to get expensive. They should be pie in the sky.

[Esperahenne]

But can you imagine? Like, I mean, I know this is now hindsight is 20 20, et cetera, et cetera, but like Michael Porter Jr would have helped this team.

[Dave Defor]

Absolutely would have solved the exact problem that we're talking about right now.

[Esperahenne]

100 where.

[Dave Defor]

Who's going to shoot at the end of the game? We like who. Who are we worried about? Is that defense is worse than Michael

[Esperahenne]

Porter Jr's yes, it 100% is. Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

So he's unplayable regardless. So I don't know. And Kevin Herder just can't get the run. I don't know. It's just, it's a mess. The Pistons starters have just been thoroughly outplayed by the Magic starters. That's the difference in the series.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, I, look, I, you, you want to not be reactionary about a team that just won 60 games in the regular season, but I'm curious to see how they build moving forward because they have the pieces, they have the pitch, they have the flexibility to move forward. They're clearly, there's clearly like an identity there for them to be a title contender. But you have to maximize this opportunity with Kate Cunningham and you haven't post season basketball has proven that you, you haven't been able to do that.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah. The Thunder completed the sweep against the suns. Shea had 31. Yeah, I don't, not a lot to say about this series, to be honest. I don't think we learned a whole lot about the Oklahoma City Thunder or the Phoenix Suns necessarily. For the Suns, this was a scrappy team that wasn't expected to be here. I didn't think that they were going to even make the play in. You know, I thought this was going to be a complete down year. Turns out pretty fun team, well coached. I think that when they go into the summer, this is a team that just needs, I think they need a big man like figure this out.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, I'm just, I'm curious because they still don't have their flexibility. You know, ultimately they don't have full control of their picks and right. Money wise, I know Dylan Brooks is going to be an expiring soon, but ultimately they just don't have as much flexibility as you'd want for a team that's retooling, if you will, around Devin Booker. I'm also curious at some point like when the Devin Booker conversation happens because he struggled in this series and so does that open the door for both sides to maybe look and say, hey, we want to move in a different direction, we can capitalize on the situation, get a lot of picks, etc. There's going to be a long summer for them to think about this, but it's, it's at the very least something you have to consider now with Devin Booker and the Suns. Also for The Thunder. I know most people won't think about this because it's a first round series, but SGA was incredible. What a series for him. He. He dropped 31 in their final game. Obviously he had that 40 piece in game three. The level of efficiency and again the buzz saw that OKC has been in the first round for three years in a row. They have not lost the first round game in three years. So that is a testament to just how good they've been handling the. The worst of the best, I guess in the playoffs.

[Dave Defor]

The worst of the best. Yeah, sure.

[Esperahenne]

The best of the worst. The best of the worst.

[Dave Defor]

The best. No, worst of the best. Yeah, worst of the best. Cooper Flag wins Rookie of the year over Khan Canipple pretty tight race actually S and I wasn't sure who the winner was going to be to be honest with you. Khan, he had great PR all year because leading the league in three point shooting he's on a winning team. I obviously we were hot on the Charlotte Hornets once they got good but Cooper Flag, I mean he just. As far as rookies go, there aren't a lot that have done some of the things that he managed to accomplish in this past season. I feel like, I mean it's a good rookie of the year regardless. But I think Cooper Rifle winner yeah, Cooper.

[Esperahenne]

I mean if you look at some of the things that he's done historically and you compare it to the numbers, basically all of the historic numbers that he's beat, it's like Cooper Flag is the first player to do this since LeBron James. Cooper Flagg or Michael Jordan do this

[Dave Defor]

since Michael Jordan lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals I believe is what it was.

[Esperahenne]

So it's incredibly well deserving. And it kind of reminds me of the year actually. LeBron came into league because it was the Melo and LeBron conversation for rookie of the the year and you had D. Wade kind of that third fiddle and BJ Edgecomb has the D. Wade comps that maybe the class is similar. More similar.

[Dave Defor]

Cooper Flag is that, is that LeBron? Is that where we're getting at?

[Esperahenne]

I'm not suggesting he's going to be LeBron James, but at least the rookie of the year race seems similar to me anyways. Regardless, I I will say these votes actually came in after the play in for what I remember. So maybe the con canipple duds in the play in shifted. Maybe some of that.

[Dave Defor]

It's possible. The thing is I wonder how clued in on con canel voters were the last three weeks of the regular season because he, he had a rough slow down of the year. Basically his last month was not good.

[John Krasinski]

Yeah.

[Dave Defor]

And, and Cooper Flag had a pretty good last month. Yeah, really impressive stuff. And he was on TV a lot. So you know, maybe that helped him. I, I'd like to think that the play and stuff didn't, it didn't cost.

[Esperahenne]

Hopefully not.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah, that would suck. It at least cost him one. I mean I, I, I know that at least one voter came out and say yes, said that they're changing their vote. So you know, I don't know if that's fair or not. I, I would love to see what would happen if we waited till after the playoffs for some of these awards. Anyway, I don't know if rookie of

[Esperahenne]

the year is one that would be really interesting.

[Dave Defor]

I mean, you know, like can you be the MVP if your team isn't? At least in the conference finals? Right. Like, I don't know.

[Esperahenne]

Can I, can I ask you a question? How do you feel about postseason awards? Because I know we have Western Conference Finals mvp.

[Dave Defor]

Sure.

[Esperahenne]

Eastern Conference finals MVP and Finals mvp.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Esperahenne]

How do you feel about like defensive player of the playoffs?

[Dave Defor]

And I, I wouldn't mind an all playoff team, you know, the five guys that had the best playoffs or whatever, but it's always going to be the teams with the deeper runs, which is totally, I mean that makes a lot of sense.

[Esperahenne]

I mean they do that in like the World cup in soccer.

[Dave Defor]

Right, Exactly.

[Esperahenne]

World team or whatever.

[Dave Defor]

So yeah, I think if we had an all NBA playoff team, it would be a nice way to tell the story of the playoffs. Because by the time you get to the finals, remember, it's like three months long. Yeah, right. So by the time you get to the finals, you might forget that Scotty Barnes was the best player in the Cavs rapture series.

[Esperahenne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Defor]

So wouldn't be a bad way to, to kind of add and tell the story of the season maybe. Yes. Pretty good idea.

[Esperahenne]

Hey, I'm here for the ideas.

[Dave Defor]

There you go. All right, guys, stick around after the break. We got John Krasinski here to talk about the Wolves lost to the Nuggets and whether the Wolves can hang on to this series.

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[Dave Defor]

America's best network based on RootMetric's best overall mobile network performance. US second half 2025 4D lines and a limited welcome and auto pay. See verizon.com for details. No Anthony Edwards, no Dante DiVincenzo. No win in Game 5 for the Timberwolves, but we got John Krasinski here to talk about it. How you doing? How's your playoff going so far?

[John Krasinski]

Hey, it's been, you know, a spicy series, just like we kind of expected. And so, so far so good. You know, this game was kind of a bit of a dud, but there was still plenty of angst and trash talk and all that stuff between two teams that absolutely hate each other. So yeah, that's just good theater. So I'll take that any day.

[Dave Defor]

We got a McDaniels sucks chant, which I feel like Jade McDaniels has to be a little bit proud of that. You know, it's kind of hard to achieve.

[Esperahenne]

McDaniel sucks, by the way. It's not really rhythmic.

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, you got to work for that. It's like saying Krasinski sucks almost. And so it's. But yeah, you know, it was what we talked to him after the game and he was like, I love it. I love this environment. It doesn't Bother me at all, which I actually believe. He didn't play well today, but I don't think it had anything to do with the kind of theatrics that were going on. I do think that he is the kind of player who wants that kind of smoke, who wants that kind of heat, and he loves giving it back to them. He loves, you know, when Christian Brown is pointing at him and you know, when Jokic is. Is jostling with him, like, that's what he thrives on. And so, yeah, it was. It was definitely the first time, though, that he has really inserted himself into being main character of a series. But we'll see how he handles game six. But, yeah, it was definitely hot in there tonight. I mean, every time he touched the ball, he was getting booed. There was the McDaniel sucks chance. You know, he was definitely. He's definitely made his presence felt here in these first five games.

[Esperahenne]

I love it. I love that so much. The fact, first of all, I love that he called out every single player by name. I love the fan response. I love all of this. This is, like you said, this is

[Dave Defor]

the best rivalry in the NBA right now.

[John Krasinski]

No doubt. And this is, guys, this is what you want. Like, we've all talked about it. We've all heard it. Why can't it be like the 80s, Celtics, Lakers? Why can't it be like the Pistons bowls? Like, this is what that was like. And so it's a throwback thing. No one should be offended by it. Like, this is what fans, I think, have been craving. And here it is. And it's. It's every single game, you feel the emotions involved in it. These guys really take it seriously and they really want to beat each other badly. And. And that's just what we've all been wanting to see in any rivalry. And yeah, I think this is quickly vaulted right to the top of the food chain when you, when you talk about hard feelings.

[Dave Defor]

Right.

[John Krasinski]

Enmity, all of that stuff.

[Dave Defor]

And it helps that the basketball is so good and it's so competitive and that there's no, like, dirty play. There's no, you know, I can't say. I can't point to any of these plays and say, okay, well, this was just absolutely a dirty play.

[Esperahenne]

There's some.

[Dave Defor]

There's some hard fouls. There's some above the shoulder fouls, which,

[Esperahenne]

well, the end of game shenanigans. Okay, they're not dirty. It's not.

[Dave Defor]

That was. Okay. It was about the basketball, which I don't agree with the Unwritten rules. Rules. But, you know, yeah, it is what it is. I, I, I appreciate that this is such a competitive matchup, but it's, it's really, it is on the court, and it's right in between the lines, and it's not something I, I think at the end of the day, these guys probably respect each other maybe more than other teams because of the way that they go at it.

[John Krasinski]

For sure. You know, this, let's make no mistake. This isn't Dylan Brooks. This isn't Draymond Green at his verse. This isn't Lou Dort. Like, these are, these are teams that do have a respect for each other, and I think they hate each other. It's, I've said it like this, guys. Remember when you were a kid playing in the backyard and, and the people you got mad at the most were your family members and your friends that you played all the time?

[Esperahenne]

Very true.

[John Krasinski]

Right? Like, you go at each other's throats because you also know each other so well, so you know how to hurt them. You know how to push their button. You know what it's like to kind of get riled up and to, and you know what it means to win and, and to have those breaking rights, because no matter what happens in the series, guys, these guys are going to see each other four more times next year. And, and the year after that and the year after that. And so, yes, like, it has not gotten to cheap. It has not gotten to dirty. There's, like, rubbing it in. There's salt in the wound. Like, there's all that. But that's all part of it. Like, that's all fair game. Like, I don't, I didn't understand why some people got so mad at Jaden for the layup. I mean, unwritten rules. Yeah, but he didn't, he didn't like. Yeah,

[Esperahenne]

don't lose. Exactly.

[John Krasinski]

He didn't throw an elbow into somebody coming across the lane. He didn't clothesline someone like Mikhail on Rambus. Like, there was none of that. It was just like, this is it. This is two teams that have just seen so much of each other. I think it's 31, 32 times now in the last four years. And yeah, man, that just builds up the animosity or times you see him.

[Dave Defor]

Mike Conley escapes scrutiny. He throws the pass down court and nobody cares.

[Esperahenne]

He did apologize after.

[John Krasinski]

He's like, oh, man, I shouldn't have done it. I know I shouldn't have done it.

[Esperahenne]

Silliness, man. You got me thinking about backyard Games. Now, my guy, Nathaniel, when I was a kid, they didn't have a right, couldn't go right, he couldn't score right at all. And now it's the thing. Okay, look, this game itself, I wonder how much we can take away from it because, I mean, obviously the Nuggets answer back in a major way. Minnesota had the turnovers, but obviously the injuries are a big part of what this team is moving forward with. No ant, no Dante DiVincenzo. Nazride also got hurt, but he came back into the game. I wonder how much of an equation that is. Can you take away much from this specific game and how it was played, whether it was the tempo, the speed, and move it forward into the rest of the series.

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, clearly when you lose Steven, Chenzo and Edwards, they're two year best shooters and I think what we saw tonight was Denver's ability to pack the paint defensively in a way they were not able to do in the first four games because they were so worried about Ant and Dante hitting threes. And so the floor was just so much more spaced with those two guys. And so it was clear tonight that, that they said, okay, we're going to try and take away those straight line drives that were such a heavy part of the Timberwolves offensive diet and make Bowens, Highland make threes, make, you know, I odesunlu make all these guys make some threes. And some of them did, some of them didn't. But I think that they, they were able to play a more physical brand of basketball because of those absences. But also, guys like you cannot manufacture urgency and desperation. And the Nuggets did not play with any desperation earlier in this series. And they were, you know, win or go home. And so you could tell that they played with a different edge. And I think that the Wolves knew that, hey, if we lose this game, we go back for Game 6 anyway. And, and so there's just wasn't the same, you know, type of focus and intensity and that's what led to all the turnovers. And you know, you turn the ball over 25 times, give up 35 points, you're not, you're not winning the game. Like they still scored 113 points, right? You know, so I think they have actually a lot to feel good about walking out of this and just say, look, if, if you turn the ball over 15 times instead of 25, you might win this game.

[Dave Defor]

Right? And the thing about it is that their half court defense, the Wolves half Court defense has been the differentiat in the series.

[Esperahenne]

Absolutely.

[Dave Defor]

The fact that Jaden McDaniels and Rudy Gobert have been winning that matchup until, you know, game five, but they hold the Nuggets to backto back games under a hundred points, that's impressive. And so to me, when I'm thinking, you know, the big question that's lingering here is can they win one? They got two more chances. Can they win one? And I know like the, the likelihood of coming back three one is pretty low, but it's only happened 13 times. Is that right? S. That's correct. 13 times the Nuggets have done it, we know, a couple times. So they've, they've got that pedigree, I guess, for whatever that helps. But you know, missing Anthony Edwards, your best player, missing Dante DiVincenzo, your best role playing shooter, isn't it just about their defense shutting down the Denver Nuggets, which seems like an impossible task?

[John Krasinski]

I. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that certainly if the Wolves were to lose this 31 lead, it's certainly a different in the context of 31 leads, when you lose your best player and Dante DiVincenzo is the best plus minus guy. Like he's hugely impactful.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah.

[John Krasinski]

That said, you know, you look at the game, you look at game five and Jamal Murray was nine for 23. Jaden McDaniels did a terrific job on him. I thought, you know, the difference tonight was Spencer Jones was 4 for 5 from 3 and Cam Johnson got going early. He kind of leveled off a little bit, but he had 18 points. He was a ghost this first couple of games and then all of the turnovers that the Wolves had led to Denver Nuggets run outs for easy buckets. And so I think that the Wolves can really look at all of these things and say are those repeatable for Denver? Actually like it can. Can will Spencer Jones in game six in that crazy target center, is he going to shoot four or five from three? Like are, are the Wolves going to gift wrap all of this transition offense to Denver and if they don't, if they don't just turn the ball over over and over again, I think that they set their jaw in the half court and really make it hard on the Nuggets. And so if the, if the question is can they win one? I think absolutely they can win one. It won't shock me if Denver wins them both and moves on because of the injuries that the Wolves have suffered. But, but they have played well enough in this series and they certainly have the. The recipe to do it. It's just a matter of, you know, going out and doing it.

[Esperahenne]

Now we've seen different versions of wins for the Timberwolves in this series, obviously the IO Dasumo game and multiple different games before that of different guys popping out. How do the Wolves win game six?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, I think it is just. It's playing much more under control, much more intensity. 1 One of the things talking to the guys after the game was that maybe there was a little bit too much of I'm going to do this myself kind of offense because, hey, Ant isn't here, Dante isn't here. I've got to make something happen on my own. And that sort of snowballed into forcing passes into bad shots, into those types of things. And so I think that typically at home you're more comfortable and in. So if they can eliminate, you know, those, those mistakes and then, you know, I think Jaden McDaniels is going to play better at home than he did in this game. I think that Rudy Gobert will be more of a factor after two days off, getting a little rest and really gearing up for the game on Thursday night. And then, you know, you look at maybe, and I also think maybe this was. This was the coaching staff's first real look at what does life look like without our two big guys. And so he would. Chris Finch was trying to mix and match and sort of like experimenting a lot with lineups. And I think he'll go into Game 6 with a little bit clearer vision for exactly what they have and what they need to get to. And so all of that should contribute to a smarter kind of more in control game. Does that mean they win? It doesn't guarantee it, but I do think it's give them a much better chance.

[Dave Defor]

I think they need a big Terence Shannon game.

[John Krasinski]

I do too. Yep, I do too, Dave. And I think they're. The Wolves are a little bit concerned about his defense that you. Chris Finch said that he had some game plan mistakes defensively tonight, but there is no one on Denver that can stay in front of him. That's right. So I think that you might, you might see that as an adjustment, you know, going into the next game is get him involved more offensively and getting him out and running and. And you know, again, role players at home usually better. And so, you know that that's definitely one. One to look forward to.

[Esperahenne]

Just one thing between him and IO the speed fire.

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Well, yeah, and.

[John Krasinski]

And just on earth like IO had 43 in, in game four tonight. He was a lot quieter.

[Dave Defor]

Sure.

[John Krasinski]

He, you know, if he can get somewhere in between game four, game, game five and, and game four, you know,

[Dave Defor]

get in the mid-20s, put up a 30 point game.

[John Krasinski]

Yeah,

[Esperahenne]

it's all right.

[John Krasinski]

Give him 25.

[Dave Defor]

Let' Conley. Mike Conley. How about that? Mike Conley getting a playoff start, battling his butt off.

[John Krasinski]

You know, I, I do think like you, you see some of the shortcomings in terms of like the size and maybe he's not a super big threat offensively to score, but he makes plays, he hustles back on defense, he trails the shooters as well as anybody on this team. And Chris Finch just trusts him implicitly. And so you'll see more of Mike Conley in game six as well.

[Dave Defor]

Yeah. All right, everybody go and read John at the Athletic. Thank you, John Kurzynski, for hanging out with us. Thanks to Esperahenny. I'm Dave Dufour. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like leave a review rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[John Krasinski]

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[Dave Defor]

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[Dave Defor]

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