Rebuilding the Dallas Mavericks

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rebuilding the Dallas Mavericks"

Podcast: The Athletic NBA Daily
Hosts: Andrew Schlecht, Dave DuFour, Xena Keita, Esper Henny
Date: November 12, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the state of the Dallas Mavericks, discussing the challenges and opportunities facing the franchise as it enters a major rebuild. The hosts examine the aftermath of the Luka Dončić trade, the question of Anthony Davis’ (AD) future with the team, and possible trade scenarios. The discussion also weaves in broader strategies for NBA rebuilding, the limitations imposed by the Mavericks' depleted draft assets, and parallels with other franchises’ experiences. Spirited, sharp, and often humorous, the conversation is a candid exploration of what lies ahead for Dallas and how bold decisions and hard truths shape the NBA’s most pivotal turning points.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dallas Mavericks’ Current Situation

• Core Pieces for Rebuild
  • Cooper Flagg and Dereck Lively are agreed as the true building blocks for the Mavericks’ future. (02:57)
  • Max Christie's inclusion is debated but largely set aside for now.
• State of the Franchise
  • The Mavericks have control of their 2026 pick—giving them one last chance to “tank” and acquire a difference-maker in a lauded draft class. (03:01—05:14)
  • From 2027 onward, the Mavs’ picks are mostly tied up with other teams, limiting flexibility for a traditional rebuild.

2. Anthony Davis Trade Debate

• Should the Mavs Trade AD?
  • The consensus is clear: “You gotta move on. Go ahead and get the tank. Get what you can now.” – Andrew Schlecht (05:17)
  • Pride and perceptions of embarrassment after the failed Luca trade should not get in the way. “You can’t let pride be a thing at this point.” – Andrew Schlecht (03:50)
• Trade Value Issues
  • AD’s trade value is plummeting due to injury concerns and looming (and expensive) contract extension demands.
  • Many hypothetical trades are "gross," "disgusting," or "depressing" in terms of return value. (08:13)
  • “They traded Luka Doncic to get this guy.” – Esper Henny, capturing the pain of the current situation (11:57)

3. Rebuilding Without Draft Picks

• Dallas must toggle between “tanking” and staying competitive, likened to Brooklyn's dilemma. (06:38)
• Three main approaches to rebuilding are outlined:
  • Prioritize cap space
  • Amass draft picks by taking on contracts or making trades
  • Jump in as a facilitator in other teams’ trades to grab assets
• "They're basically doing the opposite of the paperclip-for-a-house trade ... They had the house." – Andrew Schlecht (22:11—22:36)

4. Potential AD Trade Destinations & Hypotheticals

• AD to Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago (Bulls), Charlotte, New York Knicks, Detroit, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Golden State, and more are all discussed. Many scenarios are discarded quickly; a few gain traction.
• Bulls Scenario:
  • Bulls send a package (Kobe White, Kevin Huerter, Zach Collins, expiring contracts, and a pick) in exchange for AD.
  • “This works, man. Can you ... They traded Luka Doncic to get this guy.” (11:57)
• Charlotte Scenario:
  • Charlotte could send back Dallas’ own 2027 pick for AD—allowing Dallas a true tank/rebuild.
  • Mocked as a "magic beans" scenario—hoping for future value. (27:15—28:10)
• Teams Dismissed:
  • Celtics, Pacers, Bucks, Heat, Raptors, Pistons, and Wizards largely written off as unlikely fits.
• Phoenix Rockets Deal:
  • The idea of trading AD for Jalen Green and other assets comes up as a more plausible package, especially with Green's youth and upside.

5. Pride and Rebuilding Philosophy

• The panel agrees Mavericks must “set aside pride” and focus on the long-term rather than fixating on sunk costs or previous success.
  • “You have to set your pride aside... in order to go into the rebuilding process because it’s really tough.” – Dave DuFour (12:10, 12:25)
• Emphasis on the pain of watching the Mavericks become the “paperclip trader” franchise, slowly building up assets from almost nothing. (22:10—22:36)

6. Comparisons to OKC and Other Teams

• Reference to the Sam Presti model (Oklahoma City Thunder): embracing being bad while prioritizing the accumulation of young talent and picks. (06:01--06:21)
• “We saw it here in OKC... Had to really set aside the pride of what they had built.” – Dave DuFour (12:19)

7. Other Notable Nuggets

• Mavericks’ future depends heavily on new ownership's appetite for patience versus quick returns.
• The conversation is sprinkled with humor, including jokes about “scams,” “magic beans,” and teams being like "money laundering operations." (04:04, 30:55)
• Several trade proposals referenced with both playful skepticism and realism about league-wide AD demand.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pride and Rebuilding:
  • "You can’t let pride be a thing at this point... Because you got swindled already." – Andrew Schlecht [03:50]
• On Anthony Davis’ Value:
  • “This is disgusting.” – Dave DuFour, after hearing a trade package involving only role players and no picks for AD [08:13]
  • “He wants a massive extension this summer.” – Esper Henny, on why AD will be so hard to trade [08:43]
• On Rebuilding With No Assets:
  • “They’re basically doing the opposite. They had the house... They traded it for 300 paper clips.” – Andrew Schlecht [22:23—22:44]
• On Mavs’ Timeline:
  • “With Cooper [Flagg], there’s less pressure for them to immediately turn themselves into a contender or a competitive team... They have at least a five, six year window.” – Esper Henny [16:49]
• On the Reality of Current Returns:
  • “The value of Anthony Davis at this point is not where it was. They’re not going to get the type of return they would have got for Luka Doncic... That doesn’t exist anymore.” – Esper Henny [18:48]
• Magic Beans & Defense:
  • “Defense is the magic beans of the NBA.” – Andrew Schlecht [22:53]

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Trade Hypotheticals & Timestamps

• Dallas’ Rebuild Core and Rationale – [02:47–06:01]
• Rebuilding Without Own Draft Picks – [05:14–06:38]
• Trading Anthony Davis: Should or Shouldn’t? – [03:28–05:23]
• AD Trade Destinations: Atlanta, Philly, Bulls – [06:56–12:10]
  ("Would you trade for Kobe White, Kevin Herter, Zach Collins, and Javon Carter and a pick? ... They do that all day." – Andrew & Dave)
• Knicks/Gafford/Bigs Discussion – [19:23–21:45]
• The Magic Beans & Rebuilding Analogy – [22:10–22:47]
• Charlotte as a Pick Recovery Trade – [27:11–28:11]
• Phoenix and the AD/Jalen Green Scenario – [39:18–41:34]
• Warriors Troubles & Post-Steph Anxiety – [43:48–51:05]
• Wrap-up & Celtics/OKC comparison – [48:48–51:05]
• Closing Thoughts on Mavericks’ Path – [51:05–end]

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Tone & Style

The podcast features playful banter with underlying seriousness about the Mavericks’ dire situation. The hosts balance inside jokes (“magic beans,” “paperclip for a house”) with honest, sometimes biting analysis, and occasional fan Q&A integration.

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Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The Dallas Mavericks are in a tough spot—few picks, few assets, and a need to fully embrace a painful, pride-free rebuild.
• Anthony Davis’ value is low due to health and contract concerns; trade returns will be underwhelming.
• Best-case scenarios involve regaining lost picks or grabbing young/high-upside talent even if optics hurt.
• The Mavericks’ future direction will hinge on a stark, honest self-assessment and the front office’s willingness to prioritize the long term over face-saving.
• The episode offers a candid, sometimes comical look at how NBA franchises must wrestle with their own failures to start anew.

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Full episode timestamped for in-depth moments and proposal breakdowns.

Transcript

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[Dave DeFore]

Welcome to the morning shoot around here on the Athletic NBA Daily's YouTube feed. We go live on Wednesdays. We'd love for you to join us. If you're listening to the podcast, you can hop in, you can ask questions like our friend Lawrence Field in the chat. Can we get Nico to sign on as a Pelicans advisor? That feels appropriate. That seems about right.

[Xena]

No.

[Esper Henny]

Trade Trey Murphy to the Lakers for two second round picks.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, that's. That seems right. I'm Andrew Schlecht with me, Dave DeFore. Esper Henny. Hello.

[Xena]

Hello.

[Dave DeFore]

Hello. All right. So the Mavericks find themselves in a really interesting position. One they were floated a life raft in the form of Cooper Flag last year and now they have a future ahead of them. They've got like two guys and I think that they should really like. The prudent thing would be to build around him and Derek Lively. If you want to include Max Christie in that. Cool. Sure.

[Esper Henny]

Brandon Williams, why not?

[Dave DeFore]

I mean. Okay, okay, let's just come on now. Come on.

[Andrew Schlecht]

How about we'll just say Cooper Flag and Derek Lively. Let's just do that.

[Dave DeFore]

Let's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's back it up even.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, we could back it back.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And Derek Lively if he continues to develop.

[Dave DeFore]

So if he can stay healthy is really like a big thing for him. They own their own pick, which is part of the reason for this exercise is that if you are the Mavericks and you have a chance to add to that core with a really nice player in this upcoming draft, which is being lauded. It's being lauded.

[Esper Henny]

There's a lot of lauding going around.

[Dave DeFore]

I. I think that it makes sense to try to trade these guys now. It's like, okay, what can you actually get for Anthony Davis? And is that so embarrassing to your franchise that you get whatever this trade is and you just traded. You just traded Luca for him? Like. Like, where's. Where's that lie?

[Xena]

44 or. Yeah. Or had 44 games and not played in many of them.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You can't let the pride. You can't let pride be a thing at this point.

[Xena]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Because you got swindled already.

[Esper Henny]

Listen, guys, fortune favors the bold.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right. That's how we got in this place here. Boldness.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Honestly, it feels a little bit like it's. It's a little bit like the Steve Ballmer aspiration thing where he just keeps giving him money. Right. Like, theoretically, like just getting scammed. Just getting scammed. I'm, you know, I'm the richest, smartest guy in the world. I'm just getting scammed repeatedly. And so if you don't trade Anthony Davis, you just continuing the scam, you know, it's. It's a. It's a money pit, sunk cost fallacy at this, you know, on display with. With the Mavericks if they don't just go ahead and move on.

[Esper Henny]

Can I just say one thing before we get this started? So, yeah, the mavericks have their 2026 pick, and so they have free will to tank as much as they want this year. After that, though, they do not. So 2027 is tied up. 2028. I believe OKC has swap rights too. Andrew's like, yep. Just want to confirm there. 2029, it's like Houston has their pick. 2030 is San Antonio now. They do have the Lakers 2029 pick from the Luca trade, but cool. Like, they don't have that much freedom to tank. They have freedom this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, and then it's.

[Esper Henny]

It's a little bit tougher.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And that's. Again, this is why I think you just gotta. You gotta move on. Go ahead and get the tank. Get what you can now.

[Dave DeFore]

I agree.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. And. And the Cupboard is bare. So like, think about this. You know, I've talked about what Cleveland did post LeBron to rebuild and, and really, like, we're seeing the fruits of that now, but they just need to jump in on every single trade that's happening and try to get a piece, get a second rounder. Maybe they get, you know, a first swap or something in there, but they're going to be gambling for the next couple years trying to just figure out, you know, how to do this. But I, I just don't see how you develop the young guys get bad enough to, to tank this year and keep these other guys on the roster.

[Xena]

Do you pull the Sam Presti and just mail it in, knowing you're going to mail it in for like 2 to 3 years? Knowing on the outside you're developing, being young talent and you know, you're building out your treasure trove of picks and you're perfectly fine with that? Like, that's the part that I don't know if Patrick Dumont is going to be okay with.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, well, especially because they don't have their picks.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, that's the hardest thing is like if you don't have your own draft assets because those are, those are your most valuable assets whenever you're tanking and when you don't control those, it's, it's tricky. I would still tank for this year and just try to get whoever you can in this class and then move forward.

[Esper Henny]

But they kind of have to do the Brooklyn thing because Brooklyn also doesn't have control of some of their future first, but they have control of like a few of them here and there. So they have to toggle the line between tank and competitive. Can I throw out Anthony Davis? Destination?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Esper Henny]

The Atlanta Hawks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, that's interesting.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, look, they need another guy who doesn't play.

[Dave DeFore]

Listen, if you thought that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

How about the Philadelphia 76ers? Let's, let's do that.

[Esper Henny]

Hey, Donkey. Sixteen actually just recommended Paul George and Jared McCain for Anthony Davis.

[Dave DeFore]

Let's talk about that. We'll talk about that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, Yeah, I like that.

[Esper Henny]

Okay, so let's do Christophs Porzingis. Send him to Dallas back a reunion.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow.

[Esper Henny]

In Dallas.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, okay.

[Esper Henny]

Little reunion stuff there. Luke Canard. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Esper Henny]

For salary purposes.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

You're probably gonna have to add another player here. I don't know. Take your pick of like the 12 to 15 million dollar range player. Ah, man.

[Dave DeFore]

Probably would that be though, like who are we talking? Because like the guys that are in that range.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And Yeko Kongwu Nikhil. You're. You're not trading Risa Shay in this kind of deal.

[Esper Henny]

No, I'd probably do a congu.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay.

[Xena]

Really?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Esper Henny]

They're not getting any picks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's it.

[Esper Henny]

That's. That's the bulk. Like, that's. That's all you get.

[Dave DeFore]

This is disgusting.

[Esper Henny]

It's gross.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

No, and it doesn't even work. Where are we at?

[Esper Henny]

It doesn't work.

[Dave DeFore]

I. I don't hate like the idea of the Hawks trying to capitalize on this. Especially when you have like the one year deal of Chris Daps expiring and like, okay, we. Chris Daps on paper, yes, a guy that you'd want on this team. But is he going to play enough? Same can be said for A.D. who, who wants. Is going to want an extension wherever he goes.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, that's the part here. Because like, that's why I think some of his value is going to be depreciated in some of these trades. Because he's going to want a massive extension this summer.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

And so who is willing to pay him? It's basically baked into whatever you're trading is. You're extending Anthony Davis to that as well, you know.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah. It's a rough start. That's a. That's a rough start. Okay, so I got a thought. Okay, let's hear it. Xena.

[Xena]

Let's go to the Bulls.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay, let's do it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Now, see, now you're thinking, Xena, I like.

[Esper Henny]

I love the bulls as an 80 destination. He goes back home, you know.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Here's my thing.

[Xena]

Exactly. I'm thinking, oh, go ahead.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I want him to play. Okay. This is. I just would like for him to play basketball.

[Esper Henny]

It'd be great. So I worry him would be awesome, you know?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, okay. But I worry he gets to the Bulls and it's like, okay, we're gonna see you for 30 games.

[Esper Henny]

Listen, hometown kid.

[Xena]

I. So here's the way I'm looking at it. You've got Luchovic, you've got Patrick Williams, you got Zach Collins. I don't think they're going to move away from Nicola Vovich. Like, I just. I feel like they. They want his shooting. And Anthony Davis alongside of Uvich kind of allows him to be that. Yes. That's where I was thinking trading Zach Collins for sure. Adding a Kevin Herder.

[Esper Henny]

Kobe White. You gotta add Kobe White.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Because get him.

[Esper Henny]

They have to get him. And Kobe is extension eligible and the Bulls don't want to pay him. So.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Xena]

Okay. All Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, either way, this was.

[Xena]

I was gonna go with a Trey Jones or, you know, some other guard off the bench, but.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Nah, it has to. It has to be.

[Esper Henny]

And then I. I think you. You could be fine adding some random player.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Xena]

Here, let's try.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Probably not Patrick Williams, because he's not good.

[Esper Henny]

I. I think.

[Xena]

I didn't. I didn't. Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

I think the way I would try to do this if I was the Bulls is including Patrick Williams or not including Patrick Williams. So you give the Herder expiring Zach Collins, expiring Javon Carter, expiring Kobe White. We're gonna extend, but now I need some picks for Anthony Davis. So Kobe White, plus maybe a pick or two is the base of the trade.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You know, also, the. The expirings allow you just that reset and, you know, it essentially just gets everything off your books. And now all of a sudden, you get to move forward with. With these cheaper contracts.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, totally.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Kobe White would be the only one on an extension. I mean, you got to think about Kyrie, obviously, but Kobe White would be the only. Only core player that you'd have that would be under. Under a deal. So.

[Xena]

And knowing you have Lively imagining. I don't know what Gafford's deal is. I think he. He was just extended.

[Esper Henny]

No, he was, but he can be traded starting December 15th.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Okay. Okay. Well, you know, having those two already adding is at Collins, like, it will be perfect for him to be on an expiring. Most likely moves Daniel Gafford, maybe keep those two guys. Zach Collins be a nice little mentor for Lively in that mix this to me, this works. This works, man.

[Esper Henny]

Can you. They traded Luca Doncic to get this guy.

[Dave DeFore]

Would you trade for Kobe White? Kevin Herr, Zach Collins and Javon Carter had a pick.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Would you do that?

[Esper Henny]

Oh, my God. This.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They do that all day.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Yeah, I do. Like. And, like, you're right, Dave. This is something that I think NBA teams really struggle with when they get to this point.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

It's like you have to set your pride aside.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, got you.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, that's a bar. But I didn't mean it to be. But, like, you have. You have to do that in order to go into the rebuilding process because it's really tough. Like we saw it here in okc. Like, they had to do that because they had a good team. They had Chris Paul, they had. They had Steven Adams, they had Dennis Schroeder, they had sga. They had Danil Gallinari. All these players that were really Good. That was a. That was a really fun team. And you could have said, you know what, just run it back. The. The fans will be excited to see this team come back. Like, they'll. They'll be good. They'll compete in the West. But they had to, like, really set aside the pride of like, what they had, like, kind of built. Like, I think they kind of came to that team, but more by accident than anything.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right?

[Dave DeFore]

But, like, they had to, like, set that aside, like, the success that they had because, like, they really wanted to go through this rebuilding process to, like, get on the other side of it. And the. The Mavericks are going to have to do that to a degree as well.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They've already done it though.

[Dave DeFore]

They.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They set their success aside when they traded Luca.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right. So they've already done the worst. Like, they bottomed out basically, and they have not. I mean, Anthony Davis has barely played since. Since the trade, and it hasn't really looked great when he's been out there without any guards. Right. Like, they just don't have a team. Kyrie Irving getting hurt has, like, really exacerbated the, The Luca trade. I. I think it, like, to be fair to Nico, because they did look pretty good. You know, what we saw, like, for whatever it was a half a basketball, you could see, oh, okay, this team might do something and actually thought, Tyrese stays healthy. If AD stays healthy, they make a run maybe in the playoffs.

[Esper Henny]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, they had enough juice last year. But. But that is.

[Esper Henny]

That's part of the problem here. Like, they said that they wanted to, you know, create this championship window for themselves and then are relying on two injury prone 30 year olds. Right?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

And, and like, that just is a backwards philosophy. And that. Look, that's why Nico Harrison is fired now. But to your point about putting your pride to. To the side and trying to build forward, you also, I think, have to find a way. Like, what is this next front office going to prioritize? Is it cap space? Is it picks? Is it taking on contracts to get extra picks? Because there's three different ways to approach a rebuild. And I think depending on how Dallas wants to move, they can either take on a Patrick Williams and be able to take on a pick or something along the lines for that, or they can take the expiring salaries of Herter and Javon Carter and Zach Collins, and then you have the cap space there to maneuver moving forward. It's just. It just depends on how they want to move, you know, in the next couple years.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But they're Gonna find out a lot about the new owners of the team. And like, what are they prioritizing? Yeah, I don't. I mean, obviously, like a casino. Right. I mean, they ran one for the last nine months.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

I'm curious. Like, and this is. I am no trade expert by any means.

[Esper Henny]

Sure.

[Xena]

And this is why I'm asking that question. Or made the comment about the Sam Pressy thing. Like. Yeah, to the point. S that you just made about the different ways to go about a rebuild. You can move players to get picks and build your. Your draft assets that you've now lost. Right. That's what you guys were saying. Dallas Mavericks don't own those, but you can move players to go and try and get them or can move players to get the cap space. So you're not worried about draft and you're worried about free agency. Free agency, exactly.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Well.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Or being able to jump in. Okay, we've got a disgruntled player and I've got space or. Hey.

[Esper Henny]

Or want to make a trade.

[Xena]

Have.

[Esper Henny]

Exactly.

[Xena]

You're being able to say that that's fine. So I'm just. That's my thing is, like, I'm. I'm more curious about does, you know, do the Dallas Mavericks have the patience to do the route of let's trade away these players and get these draft assets with the hopes that some people. These people come in. Or do they feel like they have a closing window? Mainly because they were just in the dub. I was gonna say the wnba, the NBA Finals, just the. Like two years ago.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The window's shut.

[Xena]

Right, Exactly. But do. Do we think that there's still pressure.

[Esper Henny]

I think with Cooper, there is less pressure for them to immediately turn themselves into a contender or a competitive team. Like they're.

[Xena]

I would agree with that.

[Esper Henny]

They have at least a 5, 6 year window until Cooper gets into his prime where they can build meticulously how that building looks. To your point, Xena, I think it has a lot to do with what the front office wants to do moving forward. I do like the Bulls as a destination, though.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Good teams and good front offices are already. Like, if they have Cooper flag in their house, they. They're already thinking five years out. Like, how are we putting a team together around this guy, you know, starting next summer. Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

What does he need?

[Andrew Schlecht]

How do we. How do we make sure Con Nipple when he. When his deal is coming up? How can we get him in the house? You know?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

Kobe White would work. He would actually.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Kobe White would be. Would be pretty good. He's young enough. You know, I, I, I like this. I like the move. It's a move that the Bulls probably should make because they never really take a swing. Like, when they do. It's, it's Vuch. It's Josh Giddy.

[Dave DeFore]

Is, is 80 another Vuch. Maybe just, just to throw it out there.

[Esper Henny]

Maybe AD is another voch in the sense of like they're trading for a big. Who they are gonna regret having.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, yeah, you do have to. Okay. We, A lot of this is like, hey, theoretically, Anthony Davis is going to help you because he's an awesome defender. He can anchor a defense. The Bulls don't have anything like that right now. They, they allow the most points at the rim of any team in the NBA today. Like getting an Anthony Davis type of player would help. However, is he going to play? Because if he doesn't play, that doesn't help you.

[Esper Henny]

But that's, that's sort of baked into the trade value discussion we're having here too. You know, like, there's a reason we're not involving Josh Giddy in these conversations or multiple picks or anything like that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think they get one first.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, we know, we know. The value of Anthony Davis at this point is not where it was. And like, to, to what you guys were saying about pride, they're not going to get the type of return they would have got for Luka Doncic. Like, it's just throw that out the window. That doesn't exist anymore. You have to approach it like you.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Could do AD in a first and Max Christie or something and maybe get Luca back.

[Xena]

That window was closed. You talk about windows being closed. That one's closed for sure and hammered shut. Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

Are there any other Anthony Davis teams?

[Dave DeFore]

There's got to be. We could talk.

[Esper Henny]

There has to be more.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, we can talk about Philly.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I mean, the Knicks are kind of interesting.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, the Knicks are interesting. Okay, talk, talk to me.

[Xena]

Yeah, break us down on this one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I mean, we like, is the cat thing working there?

[Esper Henny]

They've been awesome.

[Dave DeFore]

They're really good Town plays. He plays basketball games.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Dave is the cat, is the cat thing working defensively? Like when we get to, when we get to the playoffs and I'm not saying that it's not. I like, I actually like cat on that team.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But I know that the, like, when we talk about Giannis teams, the Knicks come up and I, I think a part of that is the defense. I, I do think that with what they have to do, like having to Play Mitchell Robinson and Cat, basically to make it work, I think is an issue for them.

[Xena]

Fair point.

[Esper Henny]

They should go after Gafford is my thing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I. I actually like Gafford for them, too. Right.

[Xena]

But how is Gafford not Mitchell?

[Esper Henny]

He is, but he's just a Mitchell that can play.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

You know, like the thing with Mitchell Robinson and that's. That's always a thing, is he just can't play. Like, he is always unhealthy.

[Dave DeFore]

Would you trade. Would you trade Mitch and an asset for Daniel Gafford?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Mitch is expiring.

[Esper Henny]

Isn't expiring.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I mean, I think, you know, that's. That's a pretty good move.

[Esper Henny]

Gafford's younger, right? Oh, they're about the same age.

[Andrew Schlecht]

About the same.

[Dave DeFore]

But Mitch just feels so much like. Is Mitch. How much longer is. Is Mitch going to play in the NBA compared to what Gafford could. Yeah, that's fair. I think Mitch is a better player. I think he's like, straight up a better player, and he's been awesome for them this year. But you do have to, like, worry about his health. I mean, quite a bit.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Great deal. Yeah, he's on a great deal.

[Esper Henny]

I might do that straight up. I wonder how Nick's fans would feel about that. Gafford for Mitchell Robinson straight up. Well, it doesn't even work. Never mind.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, I mean, we can get there. We. We can get.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's close.

[Dave DeFore]

You in a Paco?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. There you go.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, like, you can get there. I. I think, like, this makes sense. And for the Mavs, like, you. You, like, maybe you need a second rounder or something.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think you need at least a second. Maybe.

[Esper Henny]

Probably need a second.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Or.

[Esper Henny]

Or maybe like Tyler K, you know, Right. Kick is like a. A decent prospect.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. If I'm the Knicks, I'm just. If I. I'm. I'm not willing to sacrifice any depth at this point.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Xena]

You know, and if I'm the Mavericks, I don't really want to do deals without picks 100.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, totally.

[Xena]

That's kind of got to be thrown in there.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

I don't see. I don't see.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Basically, they're doing the almost the NBA equivalent of, you know, how the. The person that traded a paperclip for a house. Yeah, but that's. That's how you have to rebuild when you have no picks.

[Esper Henny]

But they're basically doing the opposite. They had the house, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my God. They had a house.

[Dave DeFore]

They traded it for 300 paper clips. And now we're.

[Xena]

This is when Jim found a way to convince Dwight to trade away everything that he got in the, you know, the garage sale.

[Esper Henny]

Oh, yeah.

[Xena]

Magic beans.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And that's what you gotta find. Who is talking about pride? Who's prideful enough to fall for the magic beans?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Defense is the magic beans of the NBA.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, man.

[Xena]

It is. It is. That's a really. That's a good analogy.

[Esper Henny]

Can I. Can I do ad to the Pistons? How do we feel about 80?

[Dave DeFore]

Freaking? Hate it, but yeah, just shotgunning.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. This is the issue with the Pistons that I have. When, like. Because we've been talking about how the Pistons could be one piece away, right?

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But the issue I have is that I like this team so much that adding a guy like Anthony Davis who doesn't play would be infuriating.

[Dave DeFore]

Dude.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, that's fair, right?

[Dave DeFore]

Duran's awesome. Beef stew's awesome. Like, you don't need. The reason you'd want AD Is because he helps you around the hoop. Like, you need that.

[Esper Henny]

You gotta. You gotta consider this. AD Hates playing center. He wants to be the.

[Xena]

So he will play.

[Esper Henny]

He play. He'll play next to Duran. He'll play next to Isaiah Stewart. He has no problem doing that. So.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But he can't stretch the floor. He's shooting 50 from 3. Come on, man.

[Dave DeFore]

Can't do that all give me beef stew all day over AD Right now.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Beef stew. Better player than Anthony Davis, according to Andrew Schleck.

[Dave DeFore]

Plays basketball games. Plays in basketball games.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He does.

[Esper Henny]

I mean, to be fair, he's not playing right now. He's kind of hurt.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Esper Henny]

But he's going to play.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, he's. Who would you bet more? Who would you say is going to play more this season?

[Esper Henny]

Isaiah Stewart will play more.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, Anthony Davis isn't. Okay. I don't think Anthony Davis, like, there's no incentive to come back and play for the Mavericks, period.

[Xena]

Fair.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Zero.

[Xena]

Fair.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There's none. And if you're the Mavericks and the goal is to trade them zero. Except for. Okay, hey, we. We'll throw him out there for a couple days and we're going to do the injury management thing just so you guys can see, okay, he's not still 15 pounds overweight like he was coming into camp. And yes, his legs are still attached.

[Esper Henny]

Andrew, do the Bucks.

[Dave DeFore]

All right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's great. That's insane.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The Bucks.

[Esper Henny]

Look, we're talking about desperation.

[Dave DeFore]

This is. This is a hail. This is a hail. Mary. This is a. Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

This is a front office that is known for Hail Marys at this point.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, boy.

[Esper Henny]

Drew Holiday out of a hat waving stretch dame for Miles Turner. Let's try it all. Kyle Kuzma and Miles Turner for Anthony Davis, I assume is the deal. Something along the lines of that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Who's been hooping, by the way? Kuzma has been. You know, they made this joke about, oh, we're gonna use. Yeah, we're gonna use Kuzma. Like Giannis when he comes off the bench. Kuzma's been good. I. I am shocked by how, like, Xena, I think you were the one that pointed out one thing he's gonna do is get those shots up and if they go in right, like, he, you know, he had, what, eight points.

[Xena]

In, like, eight minutes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Xena]

It's crazy. It's crazy. He'll come off the bench and have more shot attempts than the starters combined in, like, eight minutes. It's crazy.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, sliding doors moment with the Mavericks and Kyle Kuzma. They almost. They were trying to trade for Kyle Kuzma.

[Esper Henny]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Kyle Kuzma turned his nose up to him and decided, like, I don't want to go there. I want to play for that team. I want to compete for championships. I don't want to be there. They almost gave up two draft picks for Kyle Kuzma. The Dallas Mavericks did and said they pivoted to PJ Washington, who is just straight up a better player. But.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, why would Dallas do that?

[Dave DeFore]

Why would Dallas do this?

[Esper Henny]

Do the Bucks have any sort of picks? Capital. I know they've. They've. They don't have a ton.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They got nothing.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I mean, the.

[Esper Henny]

They have. And then the 20, 30.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Here's the thing. They got Miles Turner. I think Miles Turner is a better fit next to Giannis. His ability to stretch the floor. He shoots above the break threes, and he shoots them. Well, he's a.

[Xena]

And.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And frankly, like, he plays more.

[Dave DeFore]

He plays more.

[Xena]

I mean, this is, like, the underlying factor, right? It's the underlying theme when you're talking about Anthony Davis. How much do they play? How much can you. What. What's the availability?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, not saying he's a scammer, Xena.

[Xena]

Right. I know. I just don't. I don't like this. I. This is making me feel icky.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Can the Hornets get him? Can we send them to Charlotte?

[Dave DeFore]

They.

[Esper Henny]

Oh, they own Dallas's 20, 27 pick.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Boom. Call it in. Anthony Davis for the. Their own pickback. Straight up Well, I don't know how to make the. They do. They have to make the salaries work.

[Esper Henny]

They gotta trade something.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They got to, but they.

[Esper Henny]

How about.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, yes, take miles bridges makes 18. We're not. We're not that far. Now give me a grant.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right, so if you had Lamello, and then you can trade Brandon Knipple, Brandon Miller, Anthony Davis, and Brenner as your starting five. The Charlotte Hornets will.

[Esper Henny]

Will Lamelo Ball and Anthony Davis combined games never together.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They would never play together.

[Xena]

But that also really matters.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't mind that. Especially if you're the Mavs and you get your pick back. I'd do that. A thousand percent. I would do that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a great deal for the maps.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah, I would do that. And Grant Williams back to the map. Let's go. Let's go. Okay. It'd just be so funny if the Lakers called. Like, hey, listen.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, well, okay. When. When we knew Nico was getting that late night.

[Xena]

You up?

[Andrew Schlecht]

How come Rob pulling. If you're Rob Pelinka, right? Why aren't you on the phone with hiring Nico? Hey, no, no, no, no. Before he gets canned. Hey, man, look. No, you're on the way out. Let's do me a favor. Let's. Let's do a deal right now.

[Esper Henny]

Anthony Davis for LeBron.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I wouldn't want AD if. If I was the Lakers. I'd want Gafford, but yeah, I would.

[Esper Henny]

Want Lively if I was them, to be honest.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But of the guys who should.

[Esper Henny]

Gaffer would.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Would be good. Gaffer would be a great fit.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, this would be an insane. This would break.

[Dave DeFore]

This would be so funny.

[Xena]

They would just be involved with another league breaking trade.

[Dave DeFore]

This would never happen. LeBron.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Are we doing LeBron fake trades yet? Have we gotten to that point, guys, when we're watching Luca average 40 a game.

[Esper Henny]

He's warming up with the South Bay Lakers right now.

[Xena]

At this point, I feel like it's sacrilegious to think about the Lakers trading LeBron. I don't. I just feel like he's now written into their history.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. No, like, I'm just trying to think, can they even get there salary wise? Yeah, you can get there. You could get there.

[Esper Henny]

Need Brawny or it's no deal.

[Xena]

What would you get?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Also, hey, by the way, Rui Hachimura has been really good.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he's been. He's been hooping. He's like.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, he's turned himself into a very cool player.

[Esper Henny]

This is, you know, gross trade. Andrew.

[Dave DeFore]

This would have to be a pick space trade, right?

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Rui Hachimura, Jared Vanderbilt, Gabe Vincent, Maxi Cleaver for Anthony Davis. For those listening later on the pod.

[Dave DeFore]

Maxi, back to the. To the Mavericks. Okay. Yeah. No, there's no chance that the Lakers actually pick up the phone.

[Esper Henny]

The only Western Conference team. And I'm glad someone in the comments mentioned it, Shasha. The Clippers are the only Western Conference team that I think makes sense for ad.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, boy. Give me another injured player. To the Clippers. Let's try it.

[Xena]

Just making the unction.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They just have so much experience with these guys not playing. Clippers might be a scam franchise when it comes to playing basketball games.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, no question, no question. It's like a.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's like a money laundering operation.

[Dave DeFore]

Would you just do Kawai for AD Straight up? I don't think you can do it.

[Esper Henny]

Straight up, but I don't.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't think it's close.

[Esper Henny]

No. You got to do something. Well, the thing is, do the Clippers even have picks to give back? That's the issue.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You could do Kawhi and James Harden for Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving.

[Dave DeFore]

What does that do for anybody?

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's two sinking ships swapping deck chairs in the night.

[Dave DeFore]

You much rather have James Harden than any of these other guys. Guys. I'm like, just straight up, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes. Yeah. He's a serious player and he actually shows up to work.

[Esper Henny]

No, I think. I think the real version of this trade would be like, John Collins, Bogdan Bogdanovich. Yeah, Stuff and picks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Bogdan's getting moved this year for sure.

[Xena]

But.

[Esper Henny]

But then the other thing is, like, what picks do the Clippers even have if they're doing John Collins, Bogdan, and like Derek Jones Jr. Or something, you know?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, they don't. They don't really have what Dallas needs. Yeah, Honestly, this is. This is one of these things.

[Xena]

I might want to add Chris Dunn in this. He's starting to slow down or get further down the orchard.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Starting to slow down is like what I say about my dog. Like, he's like eight and a half now. I'm like, yeah, he started to slow down a little bit.

[Xena]

No, sorry, Chris. I just mean that his minutes are.

[Dave DeFore]

Starting to get replaced.

[Xena]

You got John Collins. It's like, yeah, yeah, Collins.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Collins has been pretty interesting. See, to me, I. I think this is going to have to be a team more like Charlotte for the Mavericks to be able to get what it. What it needs. Right. Like, they need to trade with a team that isn't going to be very good, that has picks that are likely to have some value and you know.

[Esper Henny]

With AD being 32, sounds like a team I cover.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Actually I, I was just about to say, you know, team is interesting as the Raptors because like he's old, right? I mean you. The NBA.

[Esper Henny]

No, send him to the Toronto.

[Dave DeFore]

No, I want, I don't. I can't even entertain it. I just can't even do it. I can't do it.

[Xena]

I have a question now.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This is not how you get rid of Emmanuel quickly.

[Xena]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Xena]

So we're about to do this Kings trade, but I, I have another western team that.

[Dave DeFore]

Let's hear it.

[Xena]

We might have a conundrum when a certain player comes back from injury. The Spurs.

[Dave DeFore]

San Antonio.

[Esper Henny]

My God.

[Xena]

So imagine Dylan Harper comes back. We've been talking about what is this going to look like with Dylan Harper? De' Aaron Fox. Dylan Harper. De' Aaron Fox. And we know that dear Fox has returned and made Victor women Yama look really, really good. But we know that before Dylan Harper went out, he also helped Victor women Yama look really, really good. Could you move a deer and Fox?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think you get more Fox than Anthony.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, I would, I would. If I was the spurs front office, like I would slam the door.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't, I'm not. There's no way, there's no way we got Luke Cornette. What do we need Anthony Davis for?

[Dave DeFore]

I mean you have to like make up like 17 million too. So it's like. Can't just be like a straight swap. You've got.

[Xena]

Yeah, no, no, I'm not thinking a straight swap.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Xena]

I actually was thinking de' Aaron and Luke.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, I think Barnes is kind of Harrison Barnes. Like if the spurs. Which by the way, the spurs do not often trade in the season. No, but if they did.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Harrison Barnes has got a 19 million dollar contract and it's, it's expiring.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That is such a fat trade asset that, that I think that any deal they make, they would include Harrison Barnes. I just think like his money would, would definitely be in there.

[Xena]

That makes sense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I just, you know, the Fox thing.

[Xena]

Is a backcourt conversation. We don't really know what the conversation is yet because we haven't really had to see it, you know, this so far this season. But that is, that's a team that's got some extra talent floating around, particularly in the back court. And right now that is What Dallas desperately needs is we have.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We've yet to see a team get to the playoffs and feel like they had too much ball handling. And I think that if you're the spurs, that's one of the big reasons why they. They wanted Fox, obviously. You know, even. Even though they had Stephan Castle, they didn't know they were going to have Harper, of course, but ball handling in the NBA has been underrated. And now, like, we're. There's all this new ball pressure that's happening. I actually.

[Xena]

Court pressure.

[Esper Henny]

I don't.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't.

[Xena]

Kelly olenic, was he 13 expiring?

[Andrew Schlecht]

He is. Yeah. I. I don't think that the spurs are gonna wind up moving Fox. I feel a little differently now than I did, like, three months ago.

[Esper Henny]

I agree. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't think.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But. But if. If he was available, they would get something better than Anthony Davis.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. If AD didn't have the contract he has and didn't want it, like, wanting an extension on top of that, then, yeah, like, maybe you'd explore it. But, like, if you're the spurs, you just don't. You can't tie up that much of your cap. And a guy that doesn't play.

[Esper Henny]

I dropped in the chat. How about a jaw for Anthony Davis?

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, gross. Let's look at it. Okay.

[Esper Henny]

Anthony Davis, jaw. And, like, I don't know, another salary to make it work, whatever that salary is.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

Kcp, sure.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Anthony Davis. It's amazing how irrelevant he feels as a player right now.

[Dave DeFore]

It's too much. Yeah. I. I really don't love the AD Jaren offense because. I don't know. I don't. I mean, they occupy similar spaces on the court. I don't love that. Yeah. And then jaw, jaw. And Dallas would be hilarious, I think. I don't know. I don't know. That would. That's. That's not a. If that's your pivot, it's like, you know what? We finally got Nico Harrison out of here, and now everybody, we're trading for Ja Morant, who's having just such a great season for the Memphis Grizzlies. Everything's going great there. Don't worry. Everybody, huzzah. Let's do this. I don't think so, guys.

[Xena]

Any team that doesn't have an established identity already.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And right now, the Mavs are just a little bit fragile when it comes to that.

[Esper Henny]

There are only two teams so far that I've been like. I could see it, and that's the Hornets and Bulls.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's, I was just going, I was just like, going down the list of NBA teams, right? And I'm thinking to myself, okay, Cleveland, Definitely. No. Boston? Maybe they could maybe, Probably.

[Esper Henny]

I don't think. I don't think.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Knicks, probably. No. Pacers? No. Bucks? No. Pistons? No. Magic? No. Atlanta? No. Bulls? Yes. Heat? No.

[Dave DeFore]

No.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Raptors? Raptors? Maybe Nets? I, I, the Nets. I don't think that they would do it. No. Fixers? No. Hornets? Maybe Wizards? No. And that's just the East. I mean, Anthony Davis is not the guy that he was. And he doesn't have the reputation of the guy that he, that he used to. And when you look around the league, like everybody's trying to compete.

[Dave DeFore]

What about Phoenix?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Who is he helping?

[Esper Henny]

Phoenix now.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, now that's interesting. Actually hadn't got to them yet.

[Xena]

You've got real. They've got, they're the spurs for the bigs. Like, they've got so much young talent, I think, in the, in their big positions. I don't know if they would trade for someone that doesn't play.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, yeah, they don't have anyone as good as AD When AD does play. Sure, but he doesn't play.

[Esper Henny]

It's also, they've actually been a pretty good defense to start the year. And, like, maybe AD Will help enhance that. I mean, he definitely will when they, when he plays. But then the other thing is, you have, come on, you have Nick Richards, you have Mark Williams and those guys when AD Is not playing.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esper Henny]

Can kind of facilitate those minutes, you know, So I don't, I actually don't hate this idea. It's just, what do you do?

[Dave DeFore]

Jalen Green, I was gonna say it has to be centered around Jalen Green.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think Jalen Green, yeah, he's just, he's become Jalen Green.

[Esper Henny]

And Dylan Brooks, maybe he's become cannon fodder for trades. Jalen Green, at this point, he's just the guy to move around.

[Dave DeFore]

And if your Dallas is, is, like, is Jalen Green a player that you want to pair alongside Cooper? Flag, I think, is the question you have to ask.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And, like, you know, he's not. There are worse options. There are worse options for like, for like.

[Esper Henny]

We are tanking. We are rebuilding. We need scoring and guard play next to Cooper. Not a bad guy. Jalen Green's not a bad player for that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And actually his contract isn't bad at all when you consider how the cap is moving up. You know, he signed a shorter contract, so only makes 33 and a half million a year. I mean, I say that only so much money. So he's got what, really? He's got one year left in a player option for 36 million that he probably will decline. So, you know, I, I actually, I think that's pretty good because worst case, oh, we lost Jalen Green.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah. It's a very Matt Ishba type of trade also.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah. And Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks for Anthony Davis works.

[Esper Henny]

How about you keep Dylan Brooks?

[Dave DeFore]

I'd want to keep Dylan Brooks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Of course you do, but I'm just saying the money works straight up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Esper Henny]

But you do, like. Yeah, I guess. Grayson Allen. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Then you need a little bit.

[Esper Henny]

Maybe Nick Richards. I guess you can. One of the bigs.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, one of the books.

[Xena]

Not Oso.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

That gets you there. That's at least.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Can we get. Can the Mavericks get Ryan done? Can, can we, can we pull that off?

[Dave DeFore]

Sure.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah. I can give you one of Ryan Dunn or also.

[Dave DeFore]

Sure, that's fine. Yeah. Jalen Green, Grayson Allen, Nick Richards for AD Works. I think that there's like, some. There might be something there. I, I. If I'm the Mavericks, I'm rebuilding. I don't want Jalen Green.

[Esper Henny]

But I kind of like that for the Suns too, because Booker and A.D. that's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah.

[Xena]

Like you can work, say, chemistry.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, that's real.

[Dave DeFore]

I have a bad idea.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, no. How about a lot of these have been bad ideas, by the way.

[Dave DeFore]

Anthony Davis for demonic Sabonis. Does that do anything for you?

[Esper Henny]

That's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, that's disgusting.

[Xena]

Well, after hearing, I, I think.

[Esper Henny]

I think Rich Paul would. Would find a way to make sure that trade doesn't happen.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, totally. He does not. Well, that's why I prefaced it with I have a bad idea. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Can we do some Keon Ellis fake trades, by the way?

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, why not?

[Dave DeFore]

That'll be next week. We'll do an hour on fake Keon Ellis trades.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Next week, Oklahoma City is going to trade for Keon Ellis.

[Dave DeFore]

You're gonna send, like, Usman Jang for keon?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

Rain M2W said Portland, Jeremy Grant, Scoot Henderson, Time Lord. That's. That's a, That's a pretty good deal for the Mavs. If you're.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Because you get trying to play.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. If you're. If they're trying to pull the plug on Scoot Henderson already that. I'm like, yeah, I'll. I will. I will give it a shot. I would. That's. That's a Great trade for the Mavericks. I think if you're the Blazers.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know. You're like, what do we sign up to?

[Andrew Schlecht]

You're gonna cry after you do that trade.

[Esper Henny]

Because you also get rid of Jeremy Grant's contract if you're the Blazers, who's.

[Dave DeFore]

Been better than Anthony Davis this year? So. Yeah. I don't know.

[Xena]

There's another off the bench.

[Esper Henny]

He's been awesome.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And Drew Holiday with ad, Another good connection as well.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. If you. If you're just dying to make the play in and then be back to rebuilding in two years, this is an awesome option for you.

[Esper Henny]

Tell you, there's one team that sounds like that right now.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Toronto.

[Dave DeFore]

This one team.

[Esper Henny]

AD to the warriors for Dre and Jonathan Kaminga.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, no.

[Xena]

Okay. If there are two teams in the entire league that probably don't need the unavailability of Anthony Davis, it would be the warriors and it would be the Clippers. Let's not.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

It's not even. Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Xena, what's your feel for what's going on with the Warriors?

[Xena]

Man? I. I think it's. Like I said this last night, it's very weird. Like, the energy is weird. But I'll say this. The fact that there has been such inconsistency with who's available night in, night out. I empathize with the players. Like, one night on the back to backs, and they've had more back to backs. By next week, they'll have more back to backs than anyone else in the league so far this year. And you know Al Horford's only playing on one of them. Then Steph gets sick with that weird, like, strange illness. Now there's a possibility Draymond might sit against the spurs tonight. You just. You don't quite know your. If you don't already know your roles and how you fit in and the way that OKC knows their roles, regardless of who's in and out, it really does impact your energy and your execution in terms of, what am I playing tonight. Last night, for example, you saw Jonathan Kaminga trying to become a playmaker, which resulted in five turnovers. Yes, it got four assists, but it's just like, no, bro. Actually, tonight we needed you to just attack the basket. Like, attack okc. That needs to be your role tonight. But again, it feels as if every game. And I'm not just singling out Jonathan Kaminga, it can be a variety of these guys. Every game, there's a new thing being asked of them.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Because they don't have any consistency with, like, what their lineup looks like. And it is still early. It is still, you know, top of November. But that is the number one thing right now, I think, that the warriors do not have, is, yes, we have Steph, yes, we have Draymond, and we have Jimmy, and that should feel like consistency because it's carryover from last year, but there isn't. There hasn't been a level of consistency. The. The rotations have changed significantly throughout the games as Steve Kerr is still trying to figure out what's going on.

[Esper Henny]

I just have a quick question.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Who.

[Esper Henny]

Who was Draymond and Jimmy talking about? Like, who do you think? Like, post game. Because it's like they were all alluding to the same thing. And I saw warriors fans being like, oh, it's clearly about Jonathan Kaminga, but I, I. It doesn't feel like it was about Jonathan. I don't know. I.

[Xena]

What's. So the thing is, I don't. Now, Draymond is very thoughtful with everything he says. Right. Like, and what I mean is, like, he puts thought into what he decides to say out loud, publicly, whether it's on his podcast or in these pressers.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Xena]

And so he probably clearly had somebody in mind. He's thinking of someone. But what's so crazy to me is that they could probably come out, be competitive against San Antonio tonight, and they play them back to back, so they could be competitive against San Antonio two games in a row, and then all of a sudden, this whole narrative around personal agendas.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Xena]

You know, getting in the way of the goals and the agenda of the team goes away. And so I don't want to dig too deep into that, because this is what happened with the warriors last year. It was a much longer Runway until things unraveled.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Xena]

But this happened with them last year, where they were awful on the road. They had that stretch where it was just like, blow it up. The Steph Curry era. Like, you got to figure out what to do with it. Like, the window is closing. They made one move. They get Jimmy Butler, and they go 23 and 8.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah.

[Xena]

Right. It's just like, this team is so volatile, and I sometimes hate that word because it sounds close to violent or like, you know, it sounds. Has a negative connotation, but they are volatile. They're like, the smallest thing can change everything. You can move Al Horford into the starting lineup, and it could look like a completely different team. Right. So I. I'm still. Until they don't. Until they have some consistency. With what their lineups are and. And exactly how, when that changes, everyone knows where they're supposed to move into in terms of the lanes they're supposed to fill. I don't know if you can really assess them, but they looked bad. I mean, yeah, yesterday it was. And they looked tired. And again, no excuses. The back to backs is real. They are older. They. Are they the oldest team in the league?

[Esper Henny]

I think it's the Clippers, but they're pretty close. Are pretty close.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Look bad. I mean, who also look bad. Yeah, it's hard to play basketball if you're old.

[Xena]

Yeah, it's also hard in this period where we're seeing exactly the ball pressure, take more ball pressure to. The pace is faster than it's ever been. And it's also a. It's a start and stop league right now. Like all these fouls being called if you're older. I know what it's like to wake up in the morning. Harder to do, you know, get going. And then something, you know, slows me down. Like, it. Sometimes if you talk to me long enough at the gym while I'm doing a set, I might go home afterwards. Like, I. I might not pick up the next weight because it's just like, it. It can be hard to stop and go. And so right now, there's. There's a particular feel to the. To the league that makes it hard for these type of teams to get up and keep going. But I just think there's no. The young guys have not figured out exactly where they fit when the older guys sit. And that is so important because Jimmy's going to need his rest. Steph is going to need his rest. And of course, Al Horford's already getting his rest. So sorry, they. They really got to figure that out.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, they lost a few games without Stephen.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And then they ran into the Oklahoma City Thunder, who have turned into, like.

[Esper Henny]

NBA Golden State Warriors.

[Xena]

They're the 2015, 2016 Warriors. And the thing about that, it's like you. You could go into that game saying, yeah, you're probably going to lose because OKC is just demolishing teams. But it's how you lose.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right? They weren't competitive.

[Xena]

They weren't competitive. And that's what Draymond said. And that's what I'm saying is, like, literally next tonight against the spurs, they can come out and be competitive, and it can completely change our entire conversation. The difference is, though, for me, what I'm looking at, can you get consistent, not, you know, have A team meeting on the plane or at breakfast and rip into the team. You know, Draymond says what he says or Jimmy says what he says, and we come out energized for this one game. Like, where's. It needs to be consistent. It's. Yeah. Strange.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. I think they were talking. I think they're both talking about pods because Isaiah Joe's just blown by him the whole night.

[Xena]

Either way. It is.

[Dave DeFore]

It's.

[Xena]

It's interesting. And it's funny that Jimmy. I didn't realize that Jimmy had meant to mention this. I only. I saw Draymond's comments.

[Dave DeFore]

But somebody told Jimmy about Draymond.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah, Somebody asked Jimmy about it.

[Xena]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

And then he's like, yeah, he's right there.

[Xena]

Yeah. You know, it's just Jimmy literally said the night before when talking about Jonathan Kaminga, to your point, about S. Like, maybe it was about, you know, jk. He invited Jonathan Kaminga to his house for dinner after he's had, what, one or two bad games in a row, and he said that there's not an expectation for you to have every single day. 100. You're not going to be great every. Every day. And you can have five points one night, you can have 45 points the next night, and it just completely erases all of that. So that's why it's like, I am now curious as to if there is some sort of action that they saw, behaviors that they saw that had encouraged them to say someone's acting in their own interest as opposed to the interest of the team.

[Esper Henny]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[Xena]

Yeah. But it's weird. And if there's any team that has a spotlight on how quickly they turn this around, it is the Steph Curry era in the bay.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esper Henny]

The Thunder are going to win 74 games, man.

[Dave DeFore]

Thanks so much for listening to the morning shoot around. Hope everybody enjoys the rest of their day. We'll be back tonight with another episode for you guys. We'll talk to you guys again then.

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