Rookie Race + Is the East a Wrap?

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Episode Summary
Title: Rookie Race + Is the East a Wrap?
Release Date: February 28, 2024
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, and Esfandiar Baraheni

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Introduction to the Episode

Timestamp: [04:20]

In this episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, hosts Dave DuFour, Zena Keita (Mo Dakhil), and Esfandiar Baraheni (Seth Partnow) dive deep into the latest happenings in the NBA, focusing primarily on the rookie race and the dynamics within the Eastern Conference. The conversation is enriched by insights from The Athletic’s award-winning NBA reporters, providing listeners with a comprehensive analysis of current trends, standout performances, and pivotal matchups.

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Rookie Race: Chet Holmgren vs. Victor Wembanyama

Timestamp: [04:25] – [19:31]

Standout Performances and Statistical Analysis

The discussion begins with an in-depth comparison between two standout rookies: Chet Holmgren of the Oklahoma City Thunder and Victor Wembanyama of the San Antonio Spurs. Seth Partnow highlights Wembanyama's historic performance, stating, “Chet Holmgren became the first player in NBA history to record a hundred blocks and 100 made threes in a season” ([05:11]). He further anticipates Wembanyama becoming the second player to achieve this feat, emphasizing his dual-threat capability.

Mo Dakhil praises Wembanyama's defensive prowess, noting his “radius and arm length” that make it challenging for opponents to navigate around him ([08:07]). Seth echoes this sentiment, describing Wembanyama as “the freak of all freaks” due to his unique blend of size, skill, and athleticism ([10:24]).

Development and Future Prospects

Mo delves into Wembanyama’s growth, especially on the defensive end, acknowledging areas for improvement such as shot contesting and playing passing lanes. He remarks, “He is contesting shots and playing passing lanes at the same time now” ([08:07]). Seth remains optimistic about Wembanyama’s trajectory, believing that despite occasional mistakes, his natural abilities will lead to continuous improvement: “this is just his rookie year. Like he's going to get better most seasons” ([10:57]).

There’s also a discussion about Chet Holmgren's offensive development. Seth notes Holmgren’s unexpected shooting proficiency, stating, “His jumper, especially his three ball has just... he looks like a guy who's a shooter now” ([15:51]). This improvement, combined with Holmgren's defensive skills, positions him as a strong contender for Rookie of the Year.

Comparative Advantages and Team Impact

The hosts compare how each player impacts their respective teams. Mo points out that Holmgren plays center, which is critical for the Spurs, while Wembanyama's versatility benefits the struggling Spurs roster: “Chad is playing absolutely massive minutes and crucial minutes and at a high level for the number one seed in the Western Conference as a rookie” ([15:01]).

Seth adds that Holmgren's offensive consistency, despite early-season health issues, makes him a frontrunner in the rookie race: “He has outplayed Wembanyama at least the first part of the season, but he has been so consistent even in this middle part of the season” ([15:51]).

Defensive Impact and All-Defensive Considerations

The conversation shifts to the defensive accolades of both rookies. Seth argues that Wembanyama deserves an All-Defensive team spot due to his shot-blocking capabilities: “I think that that that's the time frame we're looking at… This is not something that is just a nice to have anymore” ([23:31]). Mo concurs, highlighting Wembanyama's impact on defenses: “He's leading the league in blocks” ([23:23]).

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Eastern Conference Dynamics

Timestamp: [41:19] – [57:52]

Milwaukee Bucks’ Defensive Improvement

The hosts analyze the Milwaukee Bucks’ recent defensive performance. Mo credits Doc Rivers for implementing a structured defensive plan, which has significantly improved the team’s defensive rating: “Doc brought a defensive plan to the table... He has been magnificent all season” ([43:37]). Seth adds that the Bucks' focus on avoiding unnecessary offensive rebounds and solidifying their defensive stance has been pivotal: “They have a back line of Brook Lopez, who has been magnificent all season, and Giannis and Akombo” ([42:01]).

Boston Celtics’ Playoff Concerns

The conversation shifts to the Boston Celtics, whom Seth describes as having one of the best regular seasons in NBA history. However, Mo expresses concerns about their end-of-game execution in high-pressure situations: “What are you doing at the end of games?... When they start trying to go one on one in these games” ([46:48]). Seth underscores the importance of consistent performance in the playoffs, highlighting the need for improved late-game strategies: “If they can just, you know, go back to that possession after possession” ([47:57]).

Playoff Race: Miami, Phillies, Orlando, Indiana

The hosts discuss the tight race for the fifth and sixth seeds in the Eastern Conference, focusing on Miami Heat, Philadelphia 76ers, Orlando Magic, and Indiana Pacers. Seth leans towards Miami and Indiana securing the playoff spots, citing Miami’s improved performance and Indiana’s potential to capitalize on remaining games: “I think I would pick Indiana” ([51:58]). Mo agrees, highlighting Miami’s depth and Bam Adebayo’s contributions: “Bam Adebayo has been phenomenal this year” ([52:17]).

Conference Finals Prediction: Knicks vs. Cavaliers

In a spirited debate, the hosts predict that the New York Knicks will advance to the conference finals over the Cleveland Cavaliers. Mo emphasizes the Knicks’ versatility and defensive strength, while Seth praises their depth and decision-making: “They have so many guys that can do stuff with the ball in their hands” ([57:41]). Both agree that the Knicks’ balanced approach makes them a formidable playoff team: “Positionally you've got a lot of flexibility” ([57:41]).

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NBA Scoring Surge and Rule Changes

Timestamp: [30:58] – [40:35]

Investigation into Increased Scoring

Seth introduces a segment about NBA Commissioner Joe Dumars announcing an investigation into the recent surge in scoring across the league, including the prevalence of 70-point games. He discusses potential factors contributing to this trend, such as rule changes and evolving game styles. Seth posits that allowing more offensive maneuvers like ball screens and relaxed gathering steps have made it easier for offenses to gain an advantage: “The two main culprits… the ball screen reverse pivot... and the gather step travel rule” ([32:35]).

Referee Incentives and Officiating Concerns

Mo argues that referees are applying existing rules too liberally, often penalizing defensive players unfairly: “The defensive player is entitled to the ground that they're at as well and entitled to space” ([40:08]). Seth suggests altering referee incentives to better align with desired game outcomes: “Change the incentives so that the things that we want to see on the court are no longer rewarded with foul calls” ([36:02]).

Proposed Rule Adjustments

The hosts debate potential rule changes to curb excessive scoring. Seth proposes adopting the FIBA three-point line and eliminating the defensive three-second rule: “Adopt the FIBA three-point line… and get rid of the defensive three seconds” ([37:20], [37:54]). Mo counters by expressing skepticism about the effectiveness of these changes: “I don't necessarily think it would have that effect” ([38:56]).

Impact on Game Flow and Player Behavior

Seth emphasizes the need for more nuanced officiating, where fouls are judged based on their impact on plays rather than rigidly adhering to rules: “Each foul should be a judgment in terms of, did that really impede you from making the shot” ([35:59]). Mo adds that referees should recognize and enforce skillful foul drawing without penalizing defensive integrity: “If you create an advantage and create the contact, I have done something skillful to create that advantage and I deserve the reward” ([40:35]).

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [58:05] – [61:05]

As the episode wraps up, the hosts highlight upcoming content and encourage listeners to stay engaged with The Athletic’s NBA coverage. They tease an upcoming piece on Nikola Jokić and the Denver Nuggets, emphasizing his defensive manipulation and overall impact on the game. The episode concludes with a quick nod to other segments and a reminder of where to find more content related to The Athletic NBA Daily.

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Notable Quotes

• Seth Partnow: “Chet Holmgren became the first player in NBA history to record a hundred blocks and 100 made threes in a season.” ([05:11])
• Mo Dakhil: “He is contesting shots and playing passing lanes at the same time now.” ([08:07])
• Seth Partnow: “He is so long. The most viewed social media video I think in NBA history is a Victor Wembanyama dunk.” ([10:25])
• Mo Dakhil: “Doc Rivers brought a defensive plan to the table. He has been magnificent all season.” ([43:37])
• Seth Partnow: “If they can just, you know, go back to that possession after possession after possession.” ([47:57])
• Mo Dakhil: “Bam Adebayo has been phenomenal this year.” ([52:17])
• Seth Partnow: “Change the incentives so that the things that we want to see on the court are no longer rewarded with foul calls.” ([36:02])

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This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily offers a thorough examination of the current rookie landscape, the shifting dynamics in the Eastern Conference, and the ongoing debate surrounding NBA scoring trends and officiating. Listeners gain valuable insights into player development, team strategies, and potential rule changes that could shape the future of the game.

Transcript

[Dave Dufour]

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[Mo Dakhil]

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[Dave Dufour]

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[Seth Partnow]

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[Unknown Speaker]

This is nerder she Wrote with your host Dave Dufour with Mo de Kill.

[Seth Partnow]

Are you ready to be entertained and Seth Part now. Hello and welcome to the Athletic MBA show. It's Wednesday. I'm Dave Defora here with Mota Kiel and Seth Part now. So that means it's Nerder She Wrote. Guys, big week in the NBA. Big night last night. Did you guys catch OKC in Houston?

[Unknown Speaker]

Fun, yes, very fun game. Can I just say why? One, one reason why it was a fun game. There was a lot of back and forth flow of action. We didn't have a lot of plays where there was a whistle, then a whistle on the next possession, then a whistle, then a challenge and then another challenge and then all that stuff. We had a lot of just actual basketball play, Dave. It's amazing when we actually let them play.

[Seth Partnow]

It's an amazing sport, honestly. Like Chad Holgren in transition and being allowed to just run in transition, defend in transition, being able to be physical. Him and Shangon. That battle last night was so much fun. I, I loved it. They got again, they got to get physical with each other. It was a very fun game. But I had, I watched that. I watched San Antonio, Minnesota, obviously Minnesota is looking like the real deal. But Wemby, every single game does something amazing. Jaime Haquez, obviously for the Heat. Another rookie I got to watch last night. He was fantastic. Brandon Miller didn't do much last night, but, you know, he's been having a good run. So last night, you know, it got me thinking. We haven't checked in on the rookies in a long time. We've got Chet vs. Wemby coming up Friday night, and that has become already a must watch sort of rivalry. And we're in year one for these guys. These, they're calling them the thin towers, which I think is hilarious. And now Chet Holmgren became the first player in NBA history to record a hundred blocks and 100 made threes in a season. Victor Wimanyama is about to become the second. I think he's 16 threes shy of a hundred. These two, like I did, we use the word unicorn too early in this evolutionary process leading us to these two guys.

[Unknown Speaker]

I think we just need a new word.

[Seth Partnow]

Griffin, Godzilla, Hippogriff. It's something, it's something like, oh, boy.

[Unknown Speaker]

You keep working with the names, guys. These are, these are jabberwocky. These are not gold.

[Seth Partnow]

It. It's something unbeatable. Whatever it is, it's pretty amazing. The impact that these guys, especially the, the two bigs, I mean, I think that they're the front runners for the rookie of the year. And statistically, I mean, when you look at them, I think that they stand out ahead of the next couple guys, which I would put as Brandon Miller and Jaime Hawkes. But, you know, Victor women, Yama at 20 and a half a game, 10 rebounds, three blocks. Chad at almost 17 a game, seven and a half rebounds, two and a half blocks. Those guys just statistically standing out, obviously just jump out at you when you're watching. But Victor women, Yama this season. And Mo, I really want to talk to you about this because we were, we were, I won't say mad, but we weren't happy about the Jeremy Sohan experience with Victor Women Yamaha. But on the defensive end, because Sohan just wasn't good enough, we got to see Victor Wimanyama learn at a, at a very fast pace. Like he had a lot of action very early. I think we can already see his, his defensive game evolve. He. He is contesting shots and playing passing lanes at the same time now.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, I mean, it's just his radius, you know, the, the. With the arm length, like it's just a matter of, you know, I did a, A One more thing. A long time ago at the start of the season, it feels like ages ago. Just sort of how he was getting steals by just being long and literally just that radius and the ability, the difference for him of being able to go from spreading out wide to just standing tall, it goes, you know, from a potential seal to a potential block just off that alone in that sense. And it's just, you know, it's. It's. Man, there's just so much we could say about Victor along those lines defensively. But the other thing that I think's really kind of happened through the course of the season is his defensive feel and his. And his feel for. For players in the league and how it's played and. And how it's officiated and everything that goes with it. Because I feel like he just does a phenomenal job the whole way of. Cool. I know when I can go get a block. I know one not to. I know when to let this guy go past me so I can block it from behind. He has a whole bunch of little things there. I mean, it's just good luck, man. Trying to just get a pass through him. Like, he's just so long. And with. With that stuff and in those things and in that stuff, we're like. When you're trying to avoid to get the pass to get him the deflection, it opens up the opportunity for the steal on the back end for the other defenders and things like that. I mean, I just think that there's just no words for him.

I've got a word for it, and this is so. I. One of the things that I'm hoping comes from sort of the Wemby conversation is a continued appreciation of Tim Duncan. And one of the things that. That. That made Duncan such a great defender was patience. And I think that. That Wemby learning how to use his physical presence, his. The. Just that. That. That size, that length, that agility to be patient, to not commit, to put himself in a position where he can contest multiple things without like, you know, running himself, jumping himself, stretching himself out of position is, I think, something that. That. I think that's. If we're. If we're going to be more specific about his improved defensive feel, I think that's it.

[Seth Partnow]

Well, and the thing is, he's not even technically proficient at it yet. I mean, he. He makes mistakes all the time.

[Unknown Speaker]

He.

[Seth Partnow]

He over rotates often, he's late to help, and it just does not freaking matter. He blocks NBA players without leaving his feet. It just. He is so long. The most viewed social media video I think in NBA history is a Victor Womenyama dunk that's almost from the free throw line. That looks like he is doing a gentle layup. I mean this guy is the freak of all freaks.

[Unknown Speaker]

The one where he's like going up for a finger roll. Then it's like, oh wait, let me just turn this over. I can just turn this over and. And drop it in. Yeah.

I mean it's just. Look, this is the, you know, knock on wood. But this is just a start for it, right? This is just his rookie year. Like he's going to get better most seasons, you know. I know I hate saying like it's a guarantee. You know, some guys have step backs and regression and whatnot. But he's going to get better over time and in that sense and he's going to hold his game in better and he gets just 20, you know. And I think that's the whole thing with all that stuff. Like if we. Honestly, if you had a guy like Victor Webign as a finished product, you'd be in pretty good position.

[Seth Partnow]

So pumped.

[Unknown Speaker]

You'd be good. You'd be like, yo, this is great. And now there's going to be a level where he's going to reach. Maybe it's three years from now, maybe it's four years from now. Like it's going to be one of those things where we're just like holy.

Over under. When he is recognized as the best player in the league. I have, I've. I think it's all star game, his fourth year. All Star Game 2027 is where I'm putting the over under on. On when he is maybe like when he is the best player in the league. That's. That's sort of squishy. It's sort of when he is recognized as such. I think is. Is the. Because that's. I mean part of it is we do. We kind of do need or he does need a few other players to maybe decline a little bit to, to be recognized as that. But I think that that's about that. That's the time frame we're looking at.

[Seth Partnow]

I think this around a little bit and I look Is he top 15 heading into next season? I mean it's. It's not absurd.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, it's not.

Wait for my player tears to find out. I just, I.

[Seth Partnow]

We've never obviously we've never seen anything like him. It's why. I mean I, I watched. I've seen every minute that he's been on the court this year, and that's, it's hard to do, but it's worth every second because this guy shows me something different in every game.

[Unknown Speaker]

What, what percentage of years is Chet Holmgren with the season? He's had the runaway, not just the rookie of the year, but the runaway rookie of the Year. And he's got like, he was, he was better up until the new year, I think. And he's got no chance at winning rookie of the Year at this point.

Well, yeah, I mean, a part of that too, though, is also, I mean, I think the spurs finally just stopped dicking around, right? Like, that's kind of part of it. Like, you know, getting Wemby the Mole is sort of an important thing. I texted a friend of mine, I'm like, who would you put around Wemby? And he's like, anybody that can pass? Because that's something that we felt like the spurs were struggling with for the longest time in that sense. And then moving him to the center position, like, the reluctance for these guys to not play center sometimes is really kind of what hurts them and holds them back. But I think him playing the center position is really kind of would open those things up there. And you were right to start the season like, Chuck was better and it was. And it looked like Chet was going to win rookie of the Year. And then about once the calendar turned, we're beginning to see the whole, the whole change there with everything. And Wemby every night is doing stuff. I mean, the five by five night. Let me ask you this question. We talk about that as a five by five being a mystical thing. How many of those is he going to have in his career?

Forget triple double set, two in a row. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, but I mean, like, you know, but I'm saying, like, we're talking about it like he's going to have get used to the five by five, Wendy. Like, that's the, that's the, the, the deal there. And, you know, free idea for any burger place in San Antonio, man. Like, you know, right there, you know.

[Seth Partnow]

Wait, you'd lose money on that deal because it's gonna happen too many times. If you were giving away free burgers.

[Unknown Speaker]

Every time, you just give away the burger, but you keep, you sell the fries and the sodas.

O. But you make them pay for the bun.

Yeah.

[Seth Partnow]

Okay, well, let's swing it to, to chat a little bit because, you know, I, I, I do not want to see Chet become the forgotten man here in this rookie of the year race.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'M actually rooting for an actual voted.

[Seth Partnow]

Co Rookie of the year just because it's been such a cool story. Chad is playing absolutely massive minutes and crucial minutes and at a high level for the number one seed in the Western Conference as a rookie. And to their credit, they played him from the five at the five from day one like there was. And I think that that has been huge for his development as well. The biggest thing with Chet was as a prospect coming in. I expected him to defend pretty close to this level. I mean, he, he is an excellent defender, has great feel already coming into the league. But the offensive end is where I've seen, you know, my eyes have been opened by chat. My expectations for him were much lower because I didn't think he was going to shoot this well. Not just this well, but this confidently. I mean, this guy's. His jumper, especially his three ball has just.

[Unknown Speaker]

He.

[Seth Partnow]

He looks like a guy who's a shooter now, whereas before he was a bit hesitant. So what have you guys seen out of chat, especially here recently? I think that, you know, yeah, he has outplayed Wemby at least the first part of the season, but he has been so consistent even in this middle part of the season where I think a lot of rookies tend to hit that wall.

[Unknown Speaker]

I wonder if, if there's a certain amount of the. The year sort of watching has maybe helped him understand the NBA game. He gave a really sort of mature quote the other day where he was. People were talking about asking him about, you know, taking heat checks and stuff like that. His answer was basically, hey, if we're talking about pickup or summer program and I've hit a couple, that's going up. This is the NBA and we're trying to win games and so, and so we're trying to get good shots. If that's me, that's great. If it's Jalen, that's great. If it's Shay, that's great. And sort of, you know, on one level that's sort of what you want to hear, but on the other hand, it just seems like he, he sort of understands what they are doing here. Part of that is like OKC seems to have a group of players and a coaching staff that sort of gets it and they, they sort of play for each other in that way. So I think that in terms of it being an environment to allow him to play well offensively, he certainly has that and he's taken full advantage.

Yeah, I mean, one, I think the more. The thing, I'm more impressed with is his maturity. And I think that's kind of the. The and the mentality more than anything else, you know. Yes. I wasn't expecting him to have this offensive game. None of us was. Let's just be honest here, right. Like this was. Nobody was expecting Chet to be this good right off the bat because that was what was part of the reason why the Thunders where people had the Thunder ranked in the standings for the most part was usually like, oh, five, six seed maybe. You know, if things go right and for them to be right in the run running from the number one seed is. Is because it's offensive game. Like I don't think there's any question about that stuff, you know, in what we're looking forward, but it's the. The maturity from him. And I disagree a little bit with you, Dave, because I did feel like he kind of hit a bit of a rookie wall. There were times where I felt like, you know, it was kind of just. He floated through some games. But to be the difference was. And maybe it's because it's height the wall was just kind of offense, you know, that he could just hop over or whatnot. I don't know. But like it was. It wasn't as much of a barrier. It was much a shorter stint in that sense. But there were times where I was watching him where I felt like there wasn't. But it literally lasted maybe a week and a half or whatnot. And then he kind of got rolling with that stuff. I think the. He's in such a great position. One not just to have Shea set him up, but to have Jalen Williams is able to create for him. To have Giddy, who's able to create for. It's almost the exact opposite of Wemby in the position of like he's got so many creators, you know, they were talking about some of them need to sit during the crunch time and looking at you getting. But you know, in a word, Wemby doesn't have any. It's. It's kind of funny in the. The mix of those two, but I think the. That's kind of the beauty of it. And the other thing too is he doesn't have the pressure of carrying an entire organization. He gets to go out there and just ball and it's. It's not worry about anything else beyond that stuff. And I think those are the things that we're watching for that we're seeing from him. Like, I'm excited. I love. I love watching Jet. I mean that. That reverse he had off of a lot.

[Seth Partnow]

Reverse alley oop.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah. You know, and. And putting Alfred Shangoon on a poster was pretty damn impressive. Then, you know, give Shingron a little credit. Got him. Got him back on the other end. But then also just check. Constantly going to block shots, you know, and has made some big rejections, you know, and it was a big part of the problem for the Clippers in their big win against the Clippers, I think a week ago, where they really kind of opened up the game. There was, you know, Jennet the Ram was tough for those guys. So, I mean, and he's just impressive. And to be honest, this whole rookie class is not only just been impressive, like, beyond offensively. This is probably the best defensive rookie class I think we've ever had.

[Seth Partnow]

There's too many guys to get to, to be honest with you, as far as defense goes in this rookie class, I mean, we could talk Bajemski. We could talk lively. I mean, there's. It's. It's kind of an interesting swing. I know that the offensive talent is what gets these guys drafted usually, but. Yeah, go ahead, Seth.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, I've got a theory is that this. That this isn't. This isn't necessarily. This rookie class isn't necessarily better defensively than other rookie classes. It's just that the bar for where players are able to do on defense right now is that, like, the rookie level of defense is less of a problem because nobody can guard right now. Because I think we'll. We'll either this week or later in the season, we'll kind of get back to the. To the offense, defense, balance. But I think that. Okay, well, nobody can guard, so who cares if you got a rookie out there?

Yeah, I disagree with that, but.

Okay, all right, fair enough.

I've seen enough defensively from these guys. Not just these two, but guys like, you know, really competing with everything that have gone through things, you know, that. I just feel like this is the smartest defensive IQ we've had in a rookie class. You know, I think what we talk about with the rookies is that generally they don't know what the hell they're doing, especially on defense.

Right.

And I feel like it's more of a. I feel like this class in general has been much better defensively with the IQ and have come in and made a. And made a big impact on that end.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah. Now, this is a little bit of a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Kind of.

[Seth Partnow]

I mean, not a goofy question, but Chet and Wemby, do they make all NBA defense As rookies, only two teams. That's the thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's. Is it position. It's not position based, is it?

No, but it's still the, the spur.

[Seth Partnow]

Things are going to have an overwhelming, you know, sort of representation I think on these.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's, it's just saying it. So go ahead and say Seth, what you wanted before we touch it.

I just have a hard time seeing. Seeing a player as good as Wemby has been. Like.

[Seth Partnow]

Because the spurs are awful.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And, and like, you know, as, as, as good as he is. Like you, you like an all defensive center is able to drag pretty mediocre defensive talent to the average when he's on the court.

[Seth Partnow]

They're top 10 defense. And now like I know that all this stuff, you know, everything is about context, but that team is atrocious around him. To be able to be top 10 in anything when you're on the court with those guys, I think is, is saying a lot, but I'm, I tend to lean your ways. I, I think that Chad has a chance though.

[Unknown Speaker]

I, I mean the other part is, I mean with him on the floor, I think he feet like they've been judicious with his minutes. But I think that if we're talking about all def. The fact that you know, he is, he's. He, you know, there's some limitation there in terms of if he was able to play more also their defense would be better. And so I think if we're, you know, comparing him to know whoever you want to pick for, for, for all defense.

[Seth Partnow]

Well, go Bear's got the top spot. Right. Like so you're fighting for, for those anyway. So.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Or Maybe it'll be 10 centers. Who knows?

[Seth Partnow]

It should be probably.

[Unknown Speaker]

I understand you Holiday. I understand your guys's point. It's also hard to keep off a dude that he's still leading the league in blocks. Like, it's hard to kind of like the, the impact he has had defensively, you know, and it sucks for him because yes, the spurs rule being bad will hold him back, but he's worthy of it. He's definitely worthy of an all defensive spot. I mean we started out this whole, this whole segment we're just talking about his, the, the, the radius of trying to get a pass through him and trying to get shots up over him is just as difficult. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's that kind of stuff. Like I, it won't, it won't surprise me if he ends up on an all defensive team. I don't think he'd be first team but it would have shocked me if he's on second team. Chat should be on Chat should be on a team. No question.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah. And I, I agree with that. Brandon Miller has really turned it on the last 20 games. You know he had a rough start this season. He had the ankle injury in, in the summer and so he came to the season a little rough. Last.

[Unknown Speaker]

Didn't he have motto in preseason also? And he had yeah and he had.

[Seth Partnow]

Motto last 20 games up over 20, 20 points a game shooting about 38 from three. This is kind of what we expected from him. I think again it's hard to judge this guy because the first half of of his season so far was kind of marred by by health stuff. But the last 20 games he, he's looked like a guy who is going to be a 20, 25 point a game scorer in the NBA. I mean this is, this is playing right into why he got drafted there. Jaime Haquez for the Miami Heat who I'm probably going to be a little bit more focused on here just because that guy is going to play huge playoff minutes and is. Is already playing like a Miami Heat playoff player.

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean we knew that like when he got drafted. He's like how does that. You know it used to be how they let this guy get to the Spurs. It was like that was so over determined that we keep saying that with Miami.

[Seth Partnow]

How does Max Truce wind up in Miami?

[Unknown Speaker]

How.

[Seth Partnow]

You know what I mean? Like this guy is sort of it's high level player in a place where they're also going to make you better. I mean he's been so good, he's so tough.

[Unknown Speaker]

Two things. One, just to go back to the Brandon Miller thing. This is, this is just my thing here. Charlotte needs to tear the whole thing down and build around him everything else. Everything's got to go. Fire sale all of it. Lamelo. Everybody build around Miller as you've because you've done a terrible job with your team to this point and I know it's a new ownership group so things may change. Hawkins one that is a massive failure on the Lakers part. Who normally do a good job scouting in the draft to have missed out on the homegrown guy playing in their backyard in a stupid college in Westwood having having gone to that dumb school. But like them missing out on him is a massive mistake and I think that's those things with. Could he just. He fits you fit perfectly with the Lakers right now with this team. He's kind of what they need. And I think he's great for Miami and everything that he does. I mean the way they kind of with their. Was it four starters out against Sacramento and able to win and him hitting some big buckets down the stretch of fadeaway and up and under over Sabonis. All those things like the dude's a gamer and it's like that's just such a perfect fit for them and, and, and such a fun rookie in that sense. Because this is also a value to this is other organizations need to understand a four year guy. Those guys still have value. Man, we're so, so kind of worried about all. He's 22, he's too old. It's like yo, that dude. That should be a sign that we need to make sure we're paying attention to some of these four year dudes that are coming out.

I think the worry about him was less about the age and more about the. Is he. Is he athletic enough? And, and, and this this almost gets back to. There's something we kind of brought up with Chet that often got brought up with Chad is how skinny he is. The thing about Chad is he's always been skinny so he's always had to figure out how to play being skinny. And I think Hawkez has never been like even. I don't think he was a like even a D1 level. He was not like a tremendous athlete. So he sort of always had to. You know it's almost like the. This is going to be another UCLA guy. But. But Kyle Anderson, you know, not that level of. Of slow Mo but has sort of always had to figure out how to play given those I don't want to say physical limitations because he's obviously got more burst than Kyle Anderson but has always had to know how to play be use his smarts to get the spots on the floor in. In ways that maybe more gifted players might not have.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah. Anything else on the rookie guys before we. We move on to some. Some other stuff.

[Unknown Speaker]

I think Mo was a little harsh on the Lakers but. But you know, I don't know man.

[Seth Partnow]

No, I don't think we're hard enough on these teams.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, I'm not.

No, it's. No, this stuff is hard like. And would you know. And would he. Would he. Would he be getting this opportunity with the Lakers? Is is sort of.

Have you seen their roster?

Well, no, but, but I but play. But playing with LeBron is hard and playing with LeBron as a versatile guy who can do stuff with the ball like, what does he look like if he's just standing in the corner and play defense?

Yeah, but that's, but they're desperately need of guys when he goes to the bench to be able to do stuff with the ball and whatnot. Just along that line. They're also desperately looking for somebody else to be able to do stuff with the ball Anyways, when LeBron's on the floor so he can get a moment of rest. I'm not, I'm not letting them off. Listen, they do a great job. Their scouting department, like, we don't give their, Their, Their, their drafting over the past, like six, seven years has been phenomenal. Like, finding guys like Kyle Kuzma late in the draft and, you know, developing Caruso, developing Reeves and all that stuff. Like, they're, they're, they do a great job with that stuff. But I think. And you're going to have misses, but I think this is a big one that's in your own backyard. This is a guy I should have seen. They should have seen more than anybody else in the NBA because, honestly, you have nothing else to do. Then you go to that stupid school and watch their game. And I think that's the, that's what. You're in the neighborhood, you know, And I think it was a, A mistake for them to have to miss out on him. I just, I'm not gonna let him off the hook on that one yet.

I, I guess I'm just, I'm. I, I guess they, I. My perspective is they've earned a little bit more benefit of the doubt based on that track record. But you're not, you're not wrong.

We don't give anybody the benefit of the doubt, you know? Are you new here?

Oh, well, I, I'm just a nicer person than you, Mo.

[Seth Partnow]

Honestly, I think part of it is this. Look, if the draft can often be a cap shoot, I don't. A crapshoot. I don't want to sit here and just re. Litigate every single draft, but if you're gonna miss, right, with like, the 17th, 18th pick, I think I understand saying I'll miss with the young guy instead of the other guy. I think I can understand that mindset.

[Unknown Speaker]

When the collective basketball world groans the way Seth did when Miami got Hawkeyes and everybody went, ah, perfect fit, you kind of just realized the situation.

[Seth Partnow]

Oh, it was like. It was. He was going to be a Laker, a Heat. I. I don't even know how we say the, you know, that the Heat player or a Warrior, he was Going to be one of the three. And he would have worked really well in any of those places. Okay, moving on guys. This one will be a little bit more brief than the rookie thing, but we've kind of, we've litigated this numerous times and we've talked about it a few times this season. But Joe Dumars has come out and said that the NBA is going to investigate the, the scoring surge that we've been seeing over recent seasons and especially this season. I mean the 70 point games obviously have been at the forefront. It was a huge part of All Star Weekend. Adam Silver being peppered with questions about this. Seth, you know you're our stats guy. The numbers are, are way up and the, the thing is what's being missed here is that it's not just that scoring is A lot of other numbers are up. Shooting is better. So the shooting is up. Free throws not quite up, but I think the percentage is higher than it used to be. Guys are better players. Offensive rebounding is back. I mean there's so many reasons for scoring to be better. But how much of this is going to be adjudicated with rule changes and how much of this is going to be adjudicated with game style changes?

[Unknown Speaker]

It is too easy to create an advantage on offense right now. And the two main culprits I think are the fact that like you're allowed like the, the ball screen reverse pivot road grader move that you know, Dwight Howard seems to have brought into the league and now everyone does where all of a sudden the guy guarding at the point of attack needs to go 3ft higher up the floor to get over the screen than a defender is one of it. And then I think that the, whatever they've done with the gather step travel rule, like I think we all like collectively the, the sort of the rules lawyering of why Paolo Bunchero did not travel on his game winner against like okay fine, you're technical. I don't. I disagree with, with what you're saying anyway. And even if that's right, that rule is stupid. He took four steps, everyone knows that to travel like clean that up too. Like if it like Jalen Duran played perfect defense on that play and then he, then he get. He. He's able to create just enough space because he was so off balance that he had to take two more steps. Like that should be a travel. Don't punish the defense for, for that. So I think that if we're, you know, we don't want to see a lot of Illegal screens called. We don't want to see a lot of travels called. If you make the commitment to calling, those players are going to stop doing them. And I think that those, like, those. Those things just make it harder, a little bit harder. Make the offense have to be a little more skilled to create an advantage. And we're still going to see scores in the 110s, the 108s, whatever, because of the. The style of play that we have now and the skill level of players. But just give defenders a little bit more of a chance. Give, like, make it. Make it so that, like, stoning a guy isn't just an accident that happens. Make it something that can happen.

I mean, just the other thing. And Seth's right on those points. The other thing, too, is just, man, we got to just stop calling all these fouls. It's kind of ridiculous to the degree of which we call the, you know.

Bring back the no call.

Yeah, just. Just the. The number of times that we have guys that just throw their body into somebody's chest and then throw the ball up hoping for a whistle. And sometimes to the ref's credit, they don't call it. And you see the player looks like an idiot and in that regard. But it needs to be a more common thing, like the defensive player is entitled to the ground that they're at as well and entitled to space. And we're just seeing it too many times where guys are driving and, you know, this is, I'm going to put my shoulder in you and then go up for the shot, because that's going to. And that's the way we're taught. Right. But that's a foul. Now instead of, like, with idea, when you put your shoulder into the person was so that they wouldn't be able to block your shot, but now you're doing it to draw the foul. And I think we just need to get rid of kind of that sort of stuff as well, the officiating. And I think the advantage that the offense has is a lot of times the refs are just so eager to blow the whistle on these calls. And it's a lot of stuff on the perimeter. And it should really be a situation, should be a judgment. Each foul should be a judgment in terms of, hey, man, like, was that. Did that really impede you from making the shot and making the play? Or did that. Or was that like, you had no absolute chance. They were all on your arm and there was no way you could get the ball up or things like that? I think we Just kind of need the game to be officiated better. I'm frankly tired of it. I know I've talked about it here at least three or four times.

[Seth Partnow]

I mean, there's one easy, easy fix too.

[Unknown Speaker]

I want to, I want to be clear on this though, that I, that I think we're misplacing the blame. If we're talking about the refs need to be better, the guidance to the referees need to be better because they are, the referees are calling the stuff that they are instructed to call. And so I think that, that if you want to look at where that should be, that is a. We don't. It's. Is it a training thing or is it just a guidance on how we're interpreting these rules, how we're interpreting incidental contact that's, that's initiated by the offensive player? I, I think that that's really what, what we, we're talking about now. Because, you know, the, the people respond to incentives and refs who make the calls that they're told to call are the ones that get the better assignments, that get in the playoffs, that get playoff money. They respond to incentives the same way as everybody else does. So change the incentives so that the things that we want to see on the court not no longer be rewarded with foul calls, are no longer rewarded with foul calls.

Yeah, and that's, that's actually the proper way to say, and then what I did with all that stuff. But I'm just glad the Knicks were able to finally overcome that Houston blown call by getting away with a pure tackle.

[Seth Partnow]

So again, a couple easy fixes. Number one, get rid of the defensive three seconds. That one's such an easy call, it doesn't exist anywhere else in basketball. I understand dunks and layups and all that fun to watch, but it's not basketball. And then number two, I'm gonna zag where everybody else is zigging. And this is from my own personal experience. Adopt the FIBA three point line. Bring the three point line in, make it easier to defend the space. Don't stretch the floor out more. Right now, NBA defenses cover more ground than ever before. I mean, they are running all over the place with more actions happening on both sides of the court. I just think if you adopted the feeble line, yeah, it's shorter, but the defense has more of an opportunity to be able to defend. And maybe I don't think that works, but I'd need to see it.

[Unknown Speaker]

I, I don't think that works because I think the teams have sort of the Teams have definitely realized the cheat like the, the people teams have, have started to ignore the line in terms of oh yeah, they're shooting and like 2018. Yeah. And yeah. And so I think that I, I, I, I, I, I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure. I think that that certainly the smarter teams and the better players have, have learned. You know, Kristops for Zingis's average, you know, three is, you know, three and a half feet behind the line this year. And all that would change if he moved the line in was his would be, his average would be four and a half feet behind the line. So it's still the same, the same distance the defense has to cover. So I understand what you're getting at there. I just don't, I don't necessarily think it would have that, that effect because I think that the toes to the line three especially above the break isn't really a thing anymore.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah. And eliminating the corner three, I mean it's, it, it's, it's going to be, it would make the game wonky that that geometry, the corner matters. It mattered before there was a three point line.

[Unknown Speaker]

So yeah, I, I think that, I.

[Seth Partnow]

Think it does get weird.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I mean that would, that would, I, I, that would essentially, that would go way too far. We would basically be operating with about a third of the usable court space that there is now. And if you liked the wrestling style of basketball, such as like, you know, the 2004 finals or something like that, Yay. I don't, I don't think the court.

Dimensions need to be changed. Yeah, I think it's the rules interpretation. I think it's the, I think it's really the bigger thing there. Again, I initiate the contact and I get to the free throw line because of that. It was really kind of a big thing there where I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of that kind of stuff and I know I kind of simplified that, but that's, that's the, the way I kind of view it as like we allow defenses to defend because it's hard as you said, Dave.

Yeah, I think, and I think we need to be clear about this like there, the art of foul drawing, I create an advantage and then create the contact. I have done something skillful to create that advantage and I deserve the reward. The one that we don't like is where the defensive player keeps themselves in perfectly legal guarding position. They have their chest in front of the ball, their hands back, they're not reaching and the offensive player leans in and flails and loses the ball and we blow the whistle.

I do want to give the refs a little bit of shout out in the Cleveland Mavs game because there was a play where Darius Garland tried to draw a foul on the big man who was running the lane. He looked and saw the big man and then just basically cut him off. And then, and then he created the collision and thought he was going to get the foul call and said he got an offensive foul call and the Cavs went completely nuts and ballistic on that. And I thought they, they nailed it. There is a call that we often see go the other way, go towards the offensive player who created that contact. I was very delighted to see it. So I wanted to give, since I always kind of trash them, I wanted to give them a little bit of credit for nailing that one correctly.

[Seth Partnow]

Again, I think they get most of the calls right. It's just that I hate the way they call them. Moving on. Big segment today, guys. I got questions about the Eastern Conference. We talked a lot about the west recently. Feel like we've ignored the East. So here we're going to just say this is four questions about the Eastern Conference and I want to start with our favorite team, the Milwaukee Bucks. The team that just keeps on giving. The Bucks in their last 10 games have the fifth best defensive rating. Now they're only five and five in in those 10. But something has changed, guys. What has changed for the Milwaukee Bucks defense?

[Unknown Speaker]

They're getting back. They were so cleaning the glass has a useful stat. It's points plus in transition which basically like fast break points are a useful stat but it's not just scoring on the fast break because you would have gotten the ball anyway and you would have scored 1.1 point per possession on those. So how many points additional are you getting or giving up? Up until the point where Doc Rivers took over, they were 29th I believe in the league in. I'm sorry they were, they were, they were about average in that but they were 29th in the league in the percentage of opposing plays that that were in transition since Doc took over. I believe they are third in points plus allowed seventh in in transition frequency. So just that being more solid and some of that is being more solid on offense, having more offensive possessions and with a balanced floor. But just the getting back to basics of hey, let's stop crashing for stupid offensive rebounds. Let's by all for goodness sake, let's stop reaching for steals in the backcourt. Bobby Portis, you're never picking a guard in the back court and just getting back and being solid. And then you. You have a defense that you've built around even as. As sort of porous as their perimeter defenders can be. If you've got a back line of Brook Lopez, who has been magnificent all season, and Giannis and Akombo, there's a lot you can make up for just by being solid and offering some resistance and being back. And that's the biggest thing over the last month that's changed.

Yeah, I mean, like, honestly, you got to give Doc credit for that stuff. I think that was the, the. He brought a defensive plan to the table. I think that's kind of the way I would look at it, you know, and brought more organization into. Into how we're going to defend. This is what we're going to do. This is what we're not going to do. Everything. Set, set. You know, he's been on point, you know, in the sense of like, we're not playing for steals in the backcourt because that rarely ever works and all of those things. I think it's a smart sort of view of how to go about it. Like, Doc has done a good job and Doc's had some very good defensive teams over the years. He's a really good defensive coach in that sense and as, as a style. And I think this is. We're beginning to see that. And I think now we're going to slowly see the offense start to come back. And as it's been a weird dichotomy where when Doc came, the offense really dropped off. I think the guys will find their footing again and, and get back going. And I think we're going to look at them and go like, all right, this is the Bucks team that we kind of thought was going to be pretty good. I still have questions about them in the playoffs because of their fours 400 defense, because I think that's where that's going to get highlighted. But just the pure fact that they've already kind of fixed some of those main easy fixes in the regular season and we're seeing their bump up. That goes a long way for the team in terms of trying to climb up the standings and get back to the two spot.

[Seth Partnow]

What do they do come playoff time when teams start picking on Damian Lillard?

[Unknown Speaker]

Benjamin? I'm just. No, I think that's, that's the question the Doc's going to have to figure out, right? They're going to try to dame on the worst perimeter player they can and that team is going to put Dame in every pick and roll they possibly can or involve them in the action one way, shape or form. And I think some of that is on Dame. Like, look, man, we've let Dame skate too long for being as bad as he was defensively. And we understood it with Portland when it was him and CJ and him and Simons and that that's going to be a terrible defensive backcourt. And he didn't have a lot of help the back line defensively for a couple of years. And then, you know, Nurkic was there for a bit when he was healthy, was that guy and whatnot. But we let Dame skate for a long time of not being, not trying even that much defensively this year in the playoffs. Dane is going to have to compete defensively because teams, as you said, they are going to target him. That's going to be the central focus of their game plan. And at a certain point you can try to switch him out as much as you can. You can try to go to zone as much as you can. At a certain point you. It's going to come down to Damon. You have to defend.

[Seth Partnow]

The Celtics, currently the one seed running away with the East. They're actually having one of the, statistically at least one of the best regular seasons in NBA history for any team. They're going to have like a top 10 season at the pace that they're on. What's their biggest worry come playoff time? Unrelated to health. We all know, like, hey, they need poor Zingis to be healthy. They need Horford. We know that. But what's their biggest worry? And Mo, we'll just kick it off with you. Since Seth got the Bucks first. What's the biggest worry in your mind come playoff time for the Celtics?

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean, it's what it's been for the past few years. What are you doing at the end of games? Because that's. They tend to go away from whatever works. And when they start trying to go one on one in these games and it becomes a. Sometimes it's great. Sometimes Tatum's on a heater, Brown's killing it, and they're able to go off and all those things. And then there are those nights where it's just not working. And I think for me it's really going to be the end of game execution come playoffs. I, I feel bad for them, Dave, in the sense of like everything I need to see from them doesn't start till the playoffs, you know, And I think that's really the, everything they're doing now is absolutely great. I love what they're doing defensively. I love how they're playing on offense. I do see from time when they are in a close game, which isn't that often because they're so damn good, but when they're in those close games, you see flashes of what I'm talking about. But really it's a playoff problem. That's a problem that we're going to have to see. Kind of can only see if it's fixed in the playoffs. So I think it's kind of a tough situation. That's, that's really my doubt for them.

I agree with that. I think that the, the, the, the thing that they have that they haven't had before is they have a little bit of, of a, of almost an easy mode, get something started. And that's the Tatum Porzingis pick and roll. Now, that might not always generate the best shot, but that's a, that's an action that is very difficult to guard and can at least create defensive movement. And if they can commit to actually like getting into that and running that with more than, I don't know, eight on the shot clock and that's, that, that's frankly the biggest worry is they've, they've, I think so many of their kind of late game playoff meltdowns have been prevent offense. If they can just, you know, go back to that possession after possession after possession and if they get a switch to get a big on Tatum, do they get the ball to Porzingis? Do they create a rotation to move the defense around somewhere? That's something they haven't really had as sort of an easy. Well, here's a simple thing we can do just to generate something that they haven't had prior. So I think that's if you're going to be more optimistic about them going into the playoffs, I think that's the thing you're looking for.

And there's not a lot of teams that can stop that. And it doesn't have to be Tatum. You can run it with Brown, you can run it with White, you can run it with Drew. I mean, it's just, you can do it, you can do it through many options in that sense. And the most important thing you said there, Seth, than anything else is not run it with eight on the shot clock. Give yourself time to get a shot out of that.

I think that. But I think the, the thing about Porzingis that makes it special and something that he's improved on over the last couple years of his career is that you can't guard him with a small anymore.

Right?

And so that's either. You can't like, pre switch to put whoever you want on Tatum and you. And you. You can't switch. You can't switch either because that. That creates a mismatch. So he's able to punish that, go down inside and punish that in ways that he was not able to, especially in Dallas, for example. And I think that. Is it. Is it something that. That like a. Like a Tatum Brown pick and roll doesn't offer?

You're right.

[Seth Partnow]

Has Missoula gotten better enough that you've seen Mo?

[Unknown Speaker]

This is perfect. He's done a great job with, with. I love what they do on defense. I love that the experimentations they've done with Drew Holiday and really kind of tinkered with a lot of things, but, man, it's, It's. This is the impossible position for the Celtics, and it sucks for Celtics fans that, that, you know, want more stuff.

[Seth Partnow]

It's.

[Unknown Speaker]

We've got to just see it in the playoffs, man. Like, this team is good. Like, I think they're good enough to win the championship, but we got to see this stuff in the playoffs. Got to see how he handles the diversity. Got to see how this team handles it, and they're not going to be stressed until the playoffs.

[Seth Partnow]

All right, next question. Miami, Philly, Orlando and Indiana are all within a half game of each other in the standings, fighting for fifth and sixth spot in the playoffs. Who's going to make the playoffs? Now, the Sixers said that Joel Embiid might be able to make it back at the end of March, so ahead of the playoffs, but they are stumbling down the standings, obviously, without Joel. Miami, they've won a bunch of games in a row, all of a sudden looking much better. As we start looking ahead to the playoffs, they're not far back in my mind from. From the Knicks because they're on the way up. So who you leaning with, Mo? Which two teams are going to be the five and six seed?

[Unknown Speaker]

You also said Orlando and Indiana. You're just completely there. We just went just to those two teams.

[Seth Partnow]

Well, hey, listen, I mean, I'm just, you know, just.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, no.

[Seth Partnow]

They're the five and six seed now, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

I, I'm, I'm, I'm going Miami. I think you're beginning to see Miami, who played possum all year, start to kind of find their. Their flow. Shout out to Zach Harper in the Bounce and the Athletic. You know, he's been he's been called us out and like here they come. But like here they go.

[Seth Partnow]

Okay, but this is Zach's bet every year. All right.

[Unknown Speaker]

Here they come. But here they come. Honestly, like they're, they're in a better position looser than they were last year, you know, and the part. And I feel more comfortable with the fact they have another guy that can put stuff on the floor. We talked about Hawkes. You know, if long and zero is healthy, I think they can do some things there and I, you know, Robinson's having another year.

[Seth Partnow]

Robinson is a driving kick guy, has been excellent this year and to be.

[Unknown Speaker]

Honest, the one guy that gets for a guy and when we talk about players is Bam Adebayo. He's been phenomenal this year. He's been great on the defensive end. He carried the team in Sacramento and I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff that he's been doing that we're sort of just kind of ignoring. And I think honestly they're doing this stuff and Jimmy Butler is finally going to start to play basketball again because now he's going to start take it seriously. I think is. Is a situation where I just think this is a team. I just see them in the playoffs. I don't see them playing in the playing tournament.

[Seth Partnow]

He finished his music video obligation. Now what about Orlando and Indiana? I'm assuming you, you feel like Philly is going to drop into the play.

[Unknown Speaker]

In kind of have to. I just, it's just timing is difficult with everything and we know the injury stuff there when you lose in BE and you're not going to be good and I think that's the problem. And then I think what you have with, you know, Orlando and Indiana also still young teams trying to figure this stuff out and I think that that's why I could see them kind of struggle there. They'll duke it out. I'll. I'll let Seth pick which one I think I would.

I like. I agree that Miami is, is like Embiid is so good and so central to them on both ends of the floor that I, that it's hard to see them kind of writing it and, and they'll. If he comes back they will obviously be like the dangerous low seed. But I think of those teams it's, it's, you know, agree that Miami for all those reasons that also they have the best coach in the league. That doesn't hurt. I, I would pick just based on talents. I think I would pick Indiana. I think especially like I don't Know if we've seen them really fully actualized with Halle and Fiacom together. But I think that's just more than Orlando has. In Orlando, like, they guard their asses off and that's it. But I just, they, they, I, I worry about their ability to consistently put the ball in the basket for, you know, we, we've talked a little bit about the Bankero and, and sort of low key, his, his inefficiency and some of that is the fact that he has to be a senator for a team that doesn't have a lot of creators. And so he's the one who's sort of forced to take a lot of bad shots. But he is, he, he is among the players who is sort of, if you compare volume and efficiency, been one of the, the least effective scorers, not effective, least efficient scorers in the league. And that's something that he can improve on. But I think that's indicative of sort of where they are from an offensive standpoint. The fact that they just need more, more shot creation and I don't think that their defense is quite enough. Whereas, you know, Indiana is going to have a lot of, down the stretch of the season, a lot of easy wins where they're up 25 at halftime because teams just can't, you know, stay in front of them.

[Seth Partnow]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm going Miami and Indy in those, that five and six spot. Although again, I'm not going to write Miami off. The Knicks have been dealing with, you know, the injury bug for the last month or so. So there always a shot that Miami could catch them. But that leads me to the last question here, where I'm going to now ignore the Knicks injury woes and ask you guys, pick one. I don't. This is not a prediction. I'm just asking to pick one of these two teams to go to the conference finals. The Cleveland Cavaliers or the New York Knicks.

[Unknown Speaker]

Knicks easily.

Yeah, I don't think it's really much of a question. I think fully healthy, I like this Knicks team better. I think as great as Cleveland has been playing and that 17 and one run that they had a while ago and things like that, I just think the Knicks make more sense as a playoff team. I think they, you know, I think just at the end of the day they got everything. And I love the Bogdanovic pickup. It'll pay off. Don't worry. He'll find in stride offensively soon enough. It will pay off. Like I, I really like what they've done.

I agree with that and I think that they, I think that, that they've also caught almost a little bit of a break. The Mitchell Robinson injury. Actually, I don't say it helped them, but they, I think they've, they've realized that Isaiah Hardenstein is a starting center in the NBA and he's been absolutely phenomenal for them since taking over over that role. And I think that, you know, getting Robinson back will allow them to do more things and, and puts, almost puts the, the, the dump and chase style. If they want to go a defense first lineup and then have Mitchell Robinson clean up on the offensive glass, they can do that also to sort of muddy the game up. And we saw what he did like specifically in a matchup against Cleveland. We saw what he did to Jared Allen last year. So I think that the Knicks, I as, as Mo said, are more playoff, I think more playoff viable and I think more playoff versatile in just the number of different looks they can throw at you. Yeah.

[Seth Partnow]

And again, I, I, I'm pro Knicks to the conference finals. I said this after the deadline. They just have so many guys that can do stuff with the ball in their hands and that matters in the playoffs more than any other time in the calendar. And I just think when you've got high level decision makers, which they've got a few of now, positionally you've got a lot of flexibility. OG makes their defense just so much more stout. They can play big, they can play smaller, but they're still fast. I, I just well coached.

[Unknown Speaker]

Tough as nails.

[Seth Partnow]

Super tough.

[Unknown Speaker]

Tough team. Tough team.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Seth Partnow]

All right, so the Knicks are going to the final no conference finals. We, we all agree. Going to the conference finals. You guys got anything else?

[Unknown Speaker]

That wasn't the question. That wasn't.

It was between the Knicks or Cavs. Like to set us up. Dave likes to set us up. That's all it is.

[Seth Partnow]

Before we wrap up for the week. You guys got anything else?

[Unknown Speaker]

Look for my piece on Jokic and Denver in the athletic here tomorrow and.

[Seth Partnow]

Little X's and Mo's.

[Unknown Speaker]

Little X's and Mo's. And just looking at Jokic, how he's manipulating defenses.

If you're in Boston this weekend at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference or at an event adjacent to the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, I will be around same.

[Seth Partnow]

Hey yeah, I'm, I've sent in a bunch of CDs to Seth to sell out of the trunk of his car for Seth part now and hope to kill. I'm Dave DeFore and this has been Nerder she wrote on the Athletic MBA show.

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Dave Dufour]

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[Dave Dufour]

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[Unknown Speaker]

Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves.

[Seth Partnow]

I'm Paige desorbo.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm Hannah Burner. Welcome to the Squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time. But of course we can't be managed so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dave Dufour]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Unknown Speaker]

Acast.com.