A (2:20)

They were the team. I felt the most confident going over their win loss total. Like I felt great about them coming in and they figured it out. There were some bumps early on, but I've enjoyed watching them figure it out over the course of the last like week and a half we are recording.

C (2:36)

This before the Raptors Cavs game, so it'd be funny if they just got a blitz.

A (2:41)

It's going to be great.

B (2:42)

Yeah. Well, hey, the Cavs Caps did okay against the Heat even though they were shorthanded. So we'll see how that game turns out. Sam, nobody knows these rookies as well as you do, man. And this rookie class feels special. The guys, I mean, Dylan Harper for the spurs has just looked so good up until he was injured. I think Cooper Flag has shown a lot of flashes that show you why he was the number one pick. I mean, even Ace Bailey is doing stuff now that you're like, wow, these guys are very talented. Who have you enjoyed watching the most? Like whether it's because you were so right about them, you just nailed it. You knew they were going to look like this in the NBA. Or maybe somebody has changed your mind, like to the point where you were just, oh, I was hilariously wrong. But who have you gotten the most joy out of watching of these rookies so far?

A (3:31)

Yeah, like I don't really derive like enjoyment out of being right or wrong on this stuff. Like just as a fact of life kind of. The guy that I've enjoyed watching the most probably shouldn't come as a surprise. Like it is Derek Queen. I just love watching Derrick Queen play basketball. I've always loved watching Derrick Queen play basketball.

C (3:52)

Oh yeah.

A (3:53)

He is such a unique talent because of his ability to get into really interesting shots. Right. His cadence is so different than anybody else's cadence that plays basketball in the NBA right now. Even like, even like he gets comped to Shengoon sometimes. Right. Like Sengun is more like bull in a china shop physical. Like going to put his like you know, but in shoulder into you and just move you backward on some level. Like DQ is gonna play with all sorts of like footwork and slow steps in D cell and get to these shots with like little up fakes and pump fakes. Like he talks about it like he grew up playing against like older dudes in Baltimore and he plays like a guy that grew up playing against older dudes in Baltimore and had to figure out how to get his shot up over some of those guys and then grew up to be 6 foot 9 to 6 foot 10 and you know, is now playing in the NBA and luckily for him he still has to figure out how to get his shots up over bigger dudes. Right. So I love watching Derrick Queen play. His passing is obviously so high level. Do I have some questions on where this goes Long term? Absolutely. Because I have. Well, athleticism is a construct on some level, right. Like you know, he, he has the athleticism in terms the deceleration and the balance and the coordination and everything like that. I mean it's kind of unbelievable watching him. But does he have the explosiveness, like the burst to go upward and finish up over the top of guys and like the bursted ability to go upward and be able to protect the rim around the basket? Right. Like that's another place where burst matters. But you know, he doesn't really have that. But you know, he's probably an underrated athlete just in terms of the balance and coordination and everything he brings to the table. This has unbelievable hands as incredible hands. He catches everything in his area, out of his area. Unbelievable hand eye coordination. The question is the defense, right? Like he is a. How do we want to describe this?

B (6:07)

He is level footed, little.

C (6:09)

It's, it's like all the things we talked about offensively are the kind of the opposite on the defensive side.

A (6:14)

Yeah, he's slow footed and also like disengaged unless you are attacking him. Kind of when he's getting attacked, he engages and he's like, I don't want this dude to beat me right now. And he looks better when those are the moments. Right. But when it's okay, I'm taking the ball, you know, I'm off the ball, I'm supposed to be rotating in, you know, help situations like that stuff doesn't really happen at all and never really has. And you know, his ball screen defense I think is going to be a question in terms of his. How quick he can be but you know, in terms of him being a high level basketball player. Man, I love watching Derek Queen play basketball. Like if I had to pick somebody that I could just watch play, it'd be Cooper first, probably Khan second. And then like I think I would pick him because he is just like so fun to watch.

C (7:07)

Yeah, Queen has been awesome. He played like. I love that you mentioned how he grew up playing because he does play like playground hoops and that's the most complimentary thing I could have to say about him. Just because there's like a feel and a creativity to everything he wants to do. Who has surprised you the most if he, if Queen has been the most fun player? Who has been the most surprising rookie so far for you?

A (7:28)

Yeah, Will Richard for me for sure. It, it makes sense to me on some level as like an intellectual exercise that you know he would find his role in Golden State because He's this kid that's just like tough defender, does his job like, does his job in like a very Bill Belichickian way, right? Like just plays his role.

C (7:50)

That really fits Golden State too, right?

A (7:53)

Fits that roster perfectly. Knows how to move without the ball, can knock down shots. Like all that stuff is pretty real. I just didn't think he was quite big enough and athletic enough to be able to hold up on defense and to be able to hold up offensively, to be able to really do anything beyond maybe shoot it at a high enough level and we'll see if he shoots it on some level. But like I have him in my top 10 rookies right now on the rookie rankings and I like, I had him I think at like 76 or something on my board. So the fact that he's been able to come in and be who he has been is such a credit to him. His prep, his mentality, going into games. I've loved watching what will, what will Richard has been able to step into role wise with Golden State when some of their vets go out.

B (8:40)

Let's, let's move up to the guys who were at the top of the draft because, I mean, they have been fascinating to watch. Cooper Flag comes in, they make him the point guard, right? You see the vision, like you think about the way Giannis was developed under Jason Kidd and you start to think, okay, yeah, and he's a good enough playmaker. He looks so much better once you get a guard or two out there with him that I think that experiment should go away because it risks his development. The guy can play, man, and he's, he's a person who knows how to play basketball. And if you just put him out there and let him find his spots, he's going to learn how to win. What has it been like for you to watch him in the NBA as he's. Because I feel like he's been catching on something new every single game with him.

A (9:23)

Well, yeah, like people bring up the idea of, oh yeah, Jason Kidd did this with Giannis and you know, Giannis was 21 and in his third NBA year when Jason Kidd did this. Cooper flag is 18 and he's never played point guard in his life. And in his rookie year you're playing him at point and trying to get him the reps. Like it was one of the most nonsensical things I've seen a team do in a while. But like, look, Dallas, what are you gonna do right now, right? Like Cooper Flag, I have numbers to back this up. So Dave is 100% right now that they've started playing him more consistently with Brandon Williams and to an extent, D' Angelo Russell drastically better. In the 107 minutes when the Mavericks played Flag on the court without Russell or Brandon Williams, the team averaged 96.5 points per 100 possessions. That's like truly catastrophic. Yeah, that's when Russell or Williams were off the court. When Flag played without Russell, he had a 46.2 true shooting percentage. When he played without Brandon Williams, he had a 44.9 true shooting percentage. They just created zero easy looks and opportunities for him is the reality. Five games ago, they put D' Angelo Russell into the starting lineup, and now they've started to put Brandon Williams in the starting lineup. Recently in the five games since that change, he's averaging 17.2 points while shooting 45.9% from the field, even in the middle of like a terrible cold spell. From three with Brandon Williams on the court, Cooper flag is averaging 23.6 points per 75 possessions, which is up from 12.9 points per 75 without Brandon Williams on the court. And he has a 60.9 true shooting percentage when he plays with Brandon Williams in a 57.2 true shooting percentage when he plays with D' Angelo Russell. And then when Flag plays with Brandon Williams, they have a 111.7 offensive rating. So like not league average, but drastically better. So all of this is so simple. Play him with a guard. The other thing about the Giannis thing that people forget is that team had Jared bayless, they had O.J. mayo, they had Michael, Carter, Williams, and.

C (11:41)

They still had guards.

A (11:42)

Yeah, they had real guards that played with Giannis all the time. Play him with guards like having good shot creators who can help him get easy shots, especially with how fast paced the game is now and how guys, different guys bring the ball up the court at different times. It's just a. It was so nonsensical. It was so stupid to play him. Is the primary lone guard out on the court that, like, I can't even really functionally wrap my head around it and shout out to Data Baller for all of those numbers.

C (12:16)

It's astonishing how much better he's played next to a guard and the numbers back that up. I think one of the other teams that we should talk about here is the Charlotte Hornets, because you have three players in your top 10 and it seems like you're a big fan of how they're building between con canipple Seon, James Ryan Kolkbrenner, A lot of good rookies in this class so far. For them, it doesn't take much to turn things around. How do you feel about what the Hornets are building in general moving forward with maybe Lamelo, maybe Brandon Miller moving forward long term?

A (12:49)

Well, it's when they had this draft class, when they made this choice on this draft class, right? What I wrote was it is a transformational draft class for them in terms of just bringing in, like, professionals, right? Concan, Apple, Liam McNeely, Seon, James, Ryan, Kolkbrenner. All of these dudes are exceptionally high character. They are exceptionally high level in terms of preparation, in terms of doing the right things off the court to set themselves up for success. And look like when I did that, a lot of fans and people were like, oh, look like the team that drafted three white dudes, you know, like, you know, of course that's the connotation. They're all coaches, kids. They're all this. They're all that, right? And I am, yeah, like, and I am understanding of that perception on some level, too. Like, I don't want to sit here and dismiss that. But all four of these dudes display that in every single phase when you do the intel. Like, all four of these dudes are unbelievable high character human beings that do an amazing job of making sure that they're going to be as prepped and ready as possible, game in, game out. And frankly, that's what Charlotte needed. Like, that's the reality. Like, I'm sorry. It is what Charlotte needed night in, night out. They needed guys who were going to come in and be ready to go. So to that point, S, like, I love what they have done. I love what Jeff Peterson has done to bring in, like, high character human beings who can come in and play immediately. And he's done a great job of accumulating draft capital beyond these guys. Like, really, really positive signs. I think, in Charlotte in terms of the guys that, like, I'm most excited about, you know, I mean, Khan is number one in the rookie rankings. And that guy's like, he's just a stud. He knows how to play. He is. He was always going to be able to come in and knock down shots. He is bigger and stronger and more physical than what he gets credit for being. He is just a massive dude who does not get bothered. He is super competitive. He's tough. He is somebody that just fits a modern NBA role to a tee. You can get so creative in how you use them. And I think Charles Lee has Done a really good job of running him off different flares, running him off different curls into the mid range, using him as a spacer in zone coverages and letting him just kind of relocate around. He's unbelievable. Relocating across the offensive zone. Throughout the course of a possession, he just constantly is moving and putting himself into more dangerous positions. So I am such a big fan of Khan. I'm not super surprised to see him averaging 16, 6 and 3 so far, just because he plays an incredibly efficient game and is always ready to go.

B (15:41)

All right, quickly, before we get you out of here, have you seen enough from VJ Edgecombe that you feel like this, The Sixers should just go ahead and do this reboot, Just do whatever they can to reboot behind these three young guards that they've got.

A (15:56)

What's a reboot like? I mean, I feel like they're already.

C (15:59)

Doing it a little bit.

B (16:00)

They're doing it in real time, but should they just commit that this is. This is who we've got right here? These three guards, Maxi kind of think they are. They're stuck doing it, but it's. It's one foot in, one foot out right now.

A (16:15)

So, like, here'd be what I would ask you. Like, it sounds like you're kind of advocating trading Joel and kind of rebooting this and trying to do what you can. I don't know how tradable Joel is right now is the issue. Like, if you're. If you're another team, why. Why are you taking that money? Like, why. Why are you taking that massive extension that he has kicking in without coughing up picks?

B (16:39)

Exactly.

A (16:40)

Let's be real, right? Yeah. Right. So, like, if you're Philly, like, I think you kind of might just have to live with this one for a couple years. Paul George, maybe someone would do Paul George. Like, I'll hear that out. I don't know that they would without Paul having played. And, like, let's see what Paul looks like for, you know, a 20 game sample here. Seems like we're going to get that here coming up soon. But, like, I think that they are rebuilding kind of in the way that they can while also having a team that led by Tyrese Maxey is really fun, is really awesome. And they're seven and four as of the time of this recording. And, you know, I think that you. They almost, you know, I am not somebody that really likes the idea of playing, like, both tracks. You know what I mean?

D (17:24)

Yeah, yeah.

A (17:24)

But, you know, no, no half measures in the NBA, a lot of the time is kind of the reality of the league. I kind of think that they've backed themselves into a way where they kind of have to go with the half measure, you know what I mean?

B (17:39)

Yeah.

A (17:39)

Just because I don't know how movable some of their guys are without giving away, you know, a lot of the value that they've hit on recently in the draft. Right. Like, they've, they've done a great job, that staff of hitting in the draft recently.

B (17:53)

Yeah, they. I mean, they've nailed it. VJ edge come to me. I mean, we were talking to Tony Jones this summer. He said, oh no, this guy's a superstar. And I think that's kind of what we've seen so far.

A (18:02)

So here's what I would say, though. Like, I'm not convinced yet that he is like some star level player. He has a lot of work to do in terms of being a pull up shooter. There's a lot of work to do in terms of his handle, particularly with his left hand. But I love the way they're utilizing him. He plays like 80% of his minutes with maxi, which I think is a really, really smart thing to keep him attached to your main creator and allowing him to do what he does incredibly well, which is take advantage of the advantages that are created for him. Like if a defense collapses off of him, he's able to knock down a catch and shoot three at a super high level. I love that they space him like 28 to 30ft from the rim whenever he gets like a big switch down to him. And they say, oh no, let's get him in as much space as he can because he's so athletic and he might be able to get downhill against those guys. Right. So I think they're utilizing him perfectly to kind of reduce what some of the flaws are in his game right now. While also acknowledging that VJ has gotten better every single season from basically the time that he was like 14 onward. His work ethic is unbelievable and I am super excited to see what he can become. But it might be like, like the name that I always use is like Gary Harris with a jet pack kind of. And that's kind of what he's been so far. Right Is Gary Harris with the jetpack attached to his back. And I think that's like an incredibly valuable player that's Probably a top 40 player in the league at some point and is really, really good. The question will be can he continue to improve upon the shot creation? Things like pull up shooting, like being able to handle with his left hand, get into tight spaces and create. Yeah, and that's where the growth is going to have to come from. And he has the athleticism to do it. He has the work ethic to do it. But it does have to come, I think.

C (19:58)

I mean, they've put him in the best spots to be able to do this.

D (20:01)

He's.

C (20:01)

He looks really good right now.

B (20:02)

So he may not be a superstar yet, but Sam Vicini is. Thank you, Sam, for joining us and talking about the rookies. We'll check back in with you soon. Guys, stick around after the break. Eric Karin's here to talk about the Raptors. I don't know man. S how many wins?

C (20:18)

Listen 47 locking it in.

E (20:27)

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B (24:20)

Feel like almost every day S adds another win to the win total that he's predicted for the Toronto Raptors at the end of the season. Well, it's helpful when they pick up wins like last night because I don't expect them to beat the Cavs many times, but they beat the cavaliers last night. 126. 113. Our man Eric Karine who covers the Raptors for us up in Toronto, he's in Cleveland for the game. Eric, when, when you were loading up to to head down to Cleveland, did you expect to see this sort of result? I mean, this is a huge win for this team.

D (24:53)

Yeah, I can't say I expected it. You know, the, the Raptors have been playing fine so far this season, sort of more or less beating who they should, losing to who you'd think they'd lose. You know, 50, 50 games have been going 50, 50 somehow with a complete absence of close games in the process. That's either win by a lot or lose by a lot. You know it was a back to back for Cleveland, but they did rest Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell in Miami where they got the win. So, you know, I would have predicted a loss going in, and instead what we got was, you know, after a rocky start, a really thorough Raptors performance. You know, probably their best one of the year. One of their better performances of the year, I think probably right alongside the second time they played Milwaukee when they sort of, you know, wiped the floor with them again, they were on a back to back, but, you know, this is. This is definitely a quality win for a team. I think that has been trending in the right direction since a bit of an iffy start to the season, but, you know, good to have proof of concept.

C (26:04)

I'm sure you saw this set. Yeah, Scotty Barnes was great. I was going to mention this stat because I think it's crazy. First time since Nov. 28, 2022, that the Raptors are two games above.500. That was when Pascal Siakam, Fred Vanvle. No Giano. We were on the roster.

B (26:21)

It's cold up there in the winter.

D (26:24)

It's.

C (26:24)

It's been tough. It's been tough. But they seem like they're turning it around. And Scotty Barnes was awesome tonight. 28 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists. He's had a really great start to this season so far, I think, on both ends of the floor, both offense left off.

B (26:41)

Five blocks, by the way, and five blocks.

C (26:43)

That is correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

D (26:45)

He's actually.

C (26:45)

That is the third time this season he's had six plus stocks in a game, which is becoming a repetitive thing for him in general. But what did you see from Scotty? What impressed you the most from Scotty so far this season?

D (26:57)

Yeah, I think this was on the short list certainly of best games I've ever seen Scotty Barnes play. It's November, so let's take that for what it's worth. But I thought like, he was the best player on the floor and it wasn't particularly close on this night. And what has impressed. What impressed me against Cleveland the most, and I think what they want him to really set the tone with is, was his rebounding in traffic, especially on the defensive end, and just like immediately pushing the pace, like grab and go, everybody. Yeah. And you like, it's not like he's just getting, you know, uncontested rebounds and going like those are contested and he's just zipping the other way. Found Jakob Hurdle a few times, got right to the tin a few times and you know, I wonder, like, I think this is the best case you can make for the Brandon Ingram trade. And like I'll admit I was a skeptic. They're 7 5. I'm still a skeptic to some degree. Like that contract is a lot. Even though like Brandon Ingram has played fine. It's not about anybody's individual play more so as the economics and, and the long term fitness. But the best case for it was it would take some of the, you know, half court creation off of Scotty Barnes play and allow him to play a 90. When I say this, I think of all the hockey commentators I grew up watching saying played a 200 foot game. Scotty Barnes is playing a 94 foot game and you know, just sort of, you know, against Cleveland and at his best this year is just like dominated for 94ft and really like encouraged the Raptors to run. They had 28 points in in trend fast break points against Cleveland. They lead the league in that metric this year. And, and he is a huge reason why.

B (28:58)

What's jumped out to you about the start? You know, have you seen anything different? Is it just more cohesive roster? I mean, did anyone get better? Like what's the difference between last year and the start they've gotten off to this year?

D (29:12)

Before this game, before the game against Cleveland, I was joking with, you know, somebody with the Raptors and being like.

A (29:18)

I still have no idea if you.

D (29:19)

Guys are any good. That person sort of agreed. So I might be the wrong person to ask. I will say.

B (29:28)

Internal sources say we might still suck.

D (29:30)

But no, I mean it wasn't that.

A (29:33)

But like, like I said at the.

D (29:34)

Beginning, like they've beat, they've won in situations they should win, they've lost in situations they should lose. Like I don't think, you know, they're right around where we expected them to be, which is like right in that sort of middle of the Eastern Conference. But I think the, the biggest sort of surprise positive for me and it's not so much a surprise but like something they really needed was the stable play they're getting off the bench from Sandro Mamu Kalashvili. Nailed it.

B (30:08)

Well, nailed the pronunciation. Good job.

C (30:10)

Yes.

D (30:11)

And Jamal Shed, you joined a Mamu.

C (30:14)

Pod, by the way.

D (30:18)

Agenda. Yes, absolutely.

C (30:20)

Yeah.

D (30:20)

Well, I'll keep that in mind. And it's funny because none of their shooting guards have really popped. Grady Dick Ochay who missed the last few games or Jacoby Walter. But those two guys have been so steady and dependable and like Jamal Shed is turning into one of the best backup guards in the league today.

B (30:40)

Did a really good job when he was guarding Donovan Mitchell.

D (30:44)

He was about the only person who could guard Donovan Mitchell. Against Cleveland, there was a sequence, I believe it was 47 seconds, in which he drew consecutive foul shooting fouls on RJ Barrett, Grady, Dick and. And Jacoby Walter. And, yeah, you know, I'm not gonna say Darko Ryokovic went to like, matching minutes or like that, but it was Jamal Shed for as many minutes as he could figure out how to do in a regular season game in November against Donovan Mitchell. And, you know, Mitchell got to the line a bunch, but he wasn't, you know, killing them and. Or slicing up the defense. He is, like such a competitive defender. He's such an important guy for, you know, the softer skills, you know, behind the scenes for the Raptors really brings guys together. It's, like, so inviting for, like, people who've been around the Raptors often. Oh, he's the next Fred Van Vliet. Like, the reality is, like, he is so much like, you know, I have a lot of time for both of them in my D leagues, but, like, Fred Van Vliet is like, uber serious, you know, cursing underneath his breath. And like, Jamal Shedd is like a very, like, smiley, happy guy that, like, they're not similar in that way, but sort of, you know, how they carry themselves. You know, Jamal Shedd is really, you know, cleaned up his playmaking and has become such. So more dangerous, so much more dangerous with his drives, not only as a finisher, but just to set that. Set the rest of the offense up. Like, those two guys, Mamo Kalashvili and Shed, have made a big difference and are giving the starters time to sort of find their rhythm as a unit.

B (32:29)

Before we get out, I do want to talk about Mamu specifically. He has been excellent to start the year, and I know, like, there's no surprise. I want to talk about Mamu, but He's shooting like 60% from the field. He's shooting 43% from three. And to me, this signing, one of the big things about it was that he could dribble a little bit, which this team needs. He has been perfect for them off the bench, earning more minutes. I mean, there's a world in which he and Pearl are, like, playing a lot more together. I could see in the future because of the way that Mamu's shooting it. Mamu has been one of the. To me, one of the biggest changes from last year to this year. They didn't have that kind of guy coming off the bench. They didn't have that kind of skilled player coming in. And now that you do, you just see, oh wow, we, we don't have this drop off. As soon as Scotty Barnes goes to the bench. We do we have another guy who can do some stuff.

D (33:21)

Yeah, they were just, I mean last year part of it, it was like their bench was thin, but they were also decimated with injuries which ob the. The bench even more. And it's funny because like he's not really a center, like he's listed as a center but like, yeah, he looks more comfortable to me. Like certainly defending on the wings. You know, he's not going to operate out of the post or the high, even the high post as a hub like Jakob Pel does. He's, you know, if you ask him, he's a three.

A (33:55)

Right.

B (33:55)

I'll just say look, if you, if.

C (33:57)

You ask him, he might be a point guard.

D (33:58)

You know, I think like this, you know, not to get off your agenda here Dave, but like, you know, Scotty Barnes, the way he's playing defensively and, and like providing some level of rim protection with those hybrid units allows Memo Kalashvili to not have to be something he isn't. He can, you know, sure he can provide a little bit of paint defense but you know, it's no, no problem to switch onto the perimeter and, and get out and run and take open shots and, and in that way and just like the, we want to get moving. We don't want to be a static half court team very often as a quote unquote backup 5 which he again really it's Barnes who's more of the backup five than, than Pertle. He, he makes total sense and you know, he's hitting his shots right now. I assume at some point go into a slump Otherwise he'll win 6, 9 of the year if Jamal Shed doesn't win it. But, but he really fits most importantly with what they're trying to do. Like it, it does make me worry about what happens if Jakob ever misses any extended time just because they will lack such back.

C (35:11)

Man, that back has to be healthy.

D (35:13)

Yeah, he, he's looked a lot better in the last few games. But you know, when you hear a seven footer and you know, back issue, yeah, I need to see a month of being yeah spry but and just without him they just don't have that much rim protection and certainly, you know, not much size like I thought they were. Had a really good rebounding performance tonight. And the Cav, sorry last night and the CAVS still had 14 offensive rebounds I believe. So that that is a challenge for this team. It will continue to be a challenge and you know, Mamo Kellish really is not really going to address that part of things. But you know, if you're the Raptors, you're just trying to lean into who you are and they look to be like behind Scotty Barnes setting that identity and you know, I'll give a shout out to before we go to Brad and Ingram who like didn't have a great night against the Cavs. But you know, sometimes it's nice to have a guy who can hit contested 16 footers when there's nothing going on.

B (36:21)

Everybody's missing Demar DeRozan right now is.

D (36:23)

What it is in the Raptors half court offense sometimes. Nothing is going on. That hasn't completely changed. Although Emmanuel Quickley has looked a lot better over the last three games. You know, I again, I assume Ingram won't shoot 56 or 60 from the mid range all year, but alternately his threes will start to go down a bit more. He is, you know, he's not without his flaws, but he's been an important part of them. Just sort of staying even as opposed to getting down 6 or 8 at a lot of different times. And that's, you know, it just gives them a different sort of button to press when necessary. And it's important for teams to have that 47 wins.

C (37:09)

You with me, Eric?

A (37:14)

That's perfect. Sure.

B (37:18)

He just said 48 before the break. I'm just gonna let you know in the first segment.

D (37:22)

He said 48. Eric.

B (37:23)

You can't even keep.

C (37:24)

We can do 48 if you want, Eric. We can do 48 if you Want.

D (37:28)

I'm old enough to have to have covered The Raptors winning 48 days franchise record for wins in a season. So yeah, not it's now 60, but that seems high to me based on a 7 and 5 start. But look, I like the optimism and man, like I meet in the middle 44, 45 seems reasonable and it's a lot better than discussing if they're winning too many games because they need to have six. Best odds the lottery of the seventh. Boy, was I tired of those conversation.

B (38:07)

So no talk for Eric Karine.

D (38:10)

Getting. Getting to judge a basketball team on its like merits of playing basketball. Hey, I'm. I'm into it.

C (38:16)

What a change.

B (38:17)

That's right. Project six nine is over. Get out of here. Guys.

A (38:23)

Back.

D (38:23)

Actually it is back.

A (38:24)

I mean it never left.

B (38:25)

Let's be honest guys. Go and read Eric at the Athletic. Thank you to Eric Karine for joining us after the game. Thanks to Esperahenny as always. I'm Dave DeFore. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Banking with Capital One helps you keep.

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