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- [00:00]
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- [00:03]
Andrew Schlecht
Whoa.
- [00:04]
Dave Devore
I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.
- [00:09]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.
- [00:19]
Dave Devore
The possibilities are endless.
- [00:21]
Andrew Schlecht
What's better is that daily cash can automatically grow when you open a high Yield savings account through Apple card.
- [00:29]
Dave Devore
That's like endless plus one.
- [00:32]
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- [00:50]
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As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [01:26]
See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny 467-369 in New York call 1-800-next step in Arizona 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.
- [01:50]
Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager.
- [02:03]
Uber Eats Ad
Summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get A chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana, that's a no. But a banana, that's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines, yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with UberEats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app. For details.
- [02:43]
Dave Devore
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave Devore here with Andrew Schlecht and Esperahenny. Coming up, the Thunder are up 3:1, which means probably moving on to the finals. And S and I debate whether we should ban fouling while up foreign. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, guys. Extra good morning for Andrew. Select. The Thunder win what might have been the best basketball game of the year. Game 4 in the Western Conference finals. They. They beat the Timberwolves 128, 126. Andrew, I'm going to start with you because I. On the last show, when we talked about the Thunder's loss, I said they needed more out of chat. They needed more out of J Dub. Was this the best OKC Big three game that we've seen out of these guys yet?
- [03:38]
Esperahenny
Well, I think S might have a staff for us, but I'll. I'll say anecdotally, yes. This was an absurd game from those three, specifically from Shay, who had 49 and 10 in this one and a steal. He was so surgical with his jumper tonight. He was finding the mismatch and he was getting to his spots. And it didn't matter who it was, whether it was Jaden McDaniels or if it was Nikhil Alexander Walker, it didn't matter. He was going to get his jumper and it was going to go in. He just had a ridiculous game. And then J Dub answered the call, as did Chet. They both hit massive threes down the stretch. Chet hit two threes tonight. Dub hit six out of nine threes tonight. It. This was one of the best games from those three, and they needed it. I mean, you wondered how are they going to respond? They just got beat by 40.
- [04:35]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah.
- [04:35]
Esperahenny
You know, just a couple nights ago. How are they going to respond? They responded in a big way, as did the Wolves. The Wolves played really well. They. They played great. I don't think there's. Outside of the turnovers, there's not a lot that you can complain about. The shot making was ridiculous from them tonight. There were so many ridiculous shots that went down, and the Thunder needed, like, their best punch from their big three, and that's what they got.
- [05:00]
Dave Devore
Yeah, I mean, it started out, J Dub, you know, just right off the bat, S, you know, just got the whole thing rolling. Had three threes in the first quarter. And, you know, at the end of the first quarter, it felt like Minnesota should have been winning. You know, they were hitting so many shots, but, you know, OKC just. They killed him on the glass. They killed him in the turnover battle.
- [05:20]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah, the math battle came to help OKC tonight a little bit. So OKC ended up taking 95 shots. Minnesota ended up taking 84. The offensive rebounds were massive. Now, I know Minnesota kind of clawed back in that department overall towards the second half, but you mentioned turnovers. That's a huge part of this, where OKC constantly played with a lead in this game. And it was Minnesota trying to claw back with the three point shooting. I mean, their bench was just incredible in this game between Nasri Dante DiVincenzo and Nikhil Alexander Walker. They're cousins, by the way. They're cousins. If you guys.
- [05:55]
Dave Devore
Yeah, I'm not sure if you guys picked up on that from the broadcast.
- [05:57]
Esperahenny
Did you know they're related?
- [06:00]
Andrew Schlecht
Did you know that Chet Holmgren is from Minnesota and SJ and Nikhil Alexander Walker are cousins, folks? But no, it was, was. It was an incredible game for Minnesota. So the way that OKC responded was great. I want to highlight SGA's playmaking. He ended up with 10 assists tonight, and Minnesota was clearly loading up on what he wanted to do as a scorer. He still ended up with 40, which is ridiculous to Andrew's point. But the fact that he was making the right reads, I thought this was like maybe the most consequential playmaking game of Shay's career that I've watched because he was making the right calls, getting it to shooters. And to your point, Andrew, the shooters knocked down the shots. They capitalized on the opportunities Shay was creating for them. That's what you want out of your lead guard. That's what you want out of your mvp. And tonight he showed it off. It was awesome.
- [06:53]
Dave Devore
I thought Andrew was going to jump in there with something to.
- [06:56]
Esperahenny
Well, s. Oh, you did. You did not given us yet.
- [06:59]
Andrew Schlecht
Okay, you're right.
- [07:00]
Esperahenny
Please give it to us because it's very good and I want you to get credit for it.
- [07:04]
Dave Devore
It's a great stat.
- [07:05]
Andrew Schlecht
Okay, you know what? I still have to cook through this, but from what I'm looking at here, SGA, JDub and chat combined for 95 points tonight. It's a lot of points. Okay. And I Was looking through OKC history to see if any other trios have scored that much. The only time they've been close to it was in 2011. It was a triple overtime game against the Minnesota. Actually, it was against the Memphis Grizzlies. OKC won that game. James Harden, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook scored 94 points, and tonight it was 95. By J Dub Chat and SGA, I mean, mathematically, statistically, they are better.
- [07:52]
Dave Devore
I think is what you're saying. S. That these guys are the best.
- [07:57]
Andrew Schlecht
OKC trio game of all time, apparently.
- [08:00]
Dave Devore
So I do want to. I. I want to. I want to talk a little bit. That is a great. Such a great stat, by the way. I do want to about the way that. That OKC guarded Anthony Edwards in this game, took him out of the game. I mean, he. He basically. He did nothing in the entire first half of the game. Finishes up with 16 points. I mean, it's a little bit different than Randall because Randall just looked like he didn't want to be involved and was actually trying to do stuff. And for a little while there, the best offense they were getting came from him just being more aggressive in the second half. I mean, Andrew, like, why didn't they just do this from the jump? I mean, it feels like they can just turn that switch on when it comes to the ball pressure. Do you. Do you feel like they're just picking their spots or.
- [08:46]
Esperahenny
Yeah, it's a good question. I think that, you know, as Lou Dort picked up fouls, I thought that it got a little bit more tricky for OKC because he's. He's the guy that you want to. To really throw the pressure. And I think that they did a pretty good job of blitzing him as well. I think they did that a lot more than they typically do against a lot of ball handlers. They. They really just wanted everybody else to beat them. Yeah. And to the Wolves credit, they almost did it. They almost did it with Nikhil with 23 points. He had five threes. Steven Chenzo was five of eight from three as well. He had 21. Naz Reed had 11. I mean, they almost did it, but you have to credit okc. They really put him in a lot of trouble. They put Ant in a ton of trouble. He had four points at half. He played better in the second half, but still could not get freed up, you know, in the closing moments of this game to make the impact that he needed to. A lot of it was Jaden McDaniels. McDaniels was really good. Not only going to the bucket, he's an incredible finisher on the rim, but hidden corner threes. And the corner threes were open for them and they. They hit a ton of corner threes tonight.
- [09:53]
Dave Devore
Capitalized 11. Yeah, quarter threes.
- [09:56]
Esperahenny
Yeah, 11 corner threes is pretty wild. And you know, that gave them a shot. They're 11 of 18. They're 61% from the corners. And like, that's what you need and that's what usually what you get at home, too. And so the as this, you know, series turns back to okc, you have to be a little bit sick to your stomach if you're the wolves that you only got 16 points out of Aunt Edwards, but you got everything, literally everything else you could want from everyone else.
- [10:23]
Dave Devore
I actually think I. Even worse than that is the five points out of Julius Randle. It is worse.
- [10:29]
Andrew Schlecht
Yes.
- [10:29]
Dave Devore
So up and down and you know, it was so obvious that the defense was just keyed in on Anthony Edwards. This is the game where Randall's supposed to get 30, you know, and it's a two point game and he winds up with five. I mean, as you know, we were talking a little bit. I was asking you, like, where's Randle? Like, did he get hurt? I mean, why. Why does it look like he's avoiding the ball? And then down the stretch at the end of the game, just felt like every single ball that was loose, that was near him, he got beat to.
- [10:56]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah, it. It seemed like he was a step slow to everything. And I, I think the jumper wasn't flowing for him early. And I don't know when. When it's a game like this where Ant has to get things going for you. Like, I mean, he had six assists and five turnovers tonight. I think part of that, to your point, Andrew, was the pressure that OKC was applying. Lou Dort was massive in this game as the primary assignment on Edwards. And I think Ant did an okay job, actually a pretty good job, I would say, of trying to get Minnesota's offense running. Like, the reason they got those corner threes was because of the driving kicks, because of the fact that Ant was putting pressure on the rim. Randle was not doing that, and I think that was a very, very missed opportunity from Randle to do that. The question you have moving forward with, with Minnesota and if they can do it is like, can they replicate this type of shooting on the road against okc? I don't know if that's necessarily the case. I think this is a very, very tall task. For Minnesota moving forward.
- [11:56]
Dave Devore
How. How nervous are you that this is going to get to six games, Andrew? Like, if you were just to put this on a scale of 1 to 10, where. Where do you place it?
- [12:06]
Esperahenny
I mean, nerve, nerves wise? Seven. I mean, like, you do the WO meter if you want.
- [12:13]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:14]
Esperahenny
The WO meter.
- [12:16]
Dave Devore
Yeah, I think so. The word.
- [12:18]
Esperahenny
I mean, this is. This is a very young Thunder team that has never been in this spot before.
- [12:25]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah.
- [12:25]
Esperahenny
And so the pressure, it's interesting because when you look at playoff series, some of it is about the pressure that a certain team feels, you know, and whenever a team has their back against the wall, that team usually plays better. We saw that they blew the center up by over 40 points. And now like the. The pressure is more equalized after that where it's like back on OKC, but still kind of on the Wolves. Because if you go down three. One, it's. It's pre. Pretty. It's pretty rough now. There's a lot of pressure on the Thunder to close this out. Like, how do they handle that? You know, how do they handle being up3.1? Thunder franchise has been up3.1 before, I'll tell you that. And you don't have to bring that up right now, dude, I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you. I just am curious to see. I will. I predict the Thunder are going to win in game Game five. I think they will win game five, but it will be really interesting to see what that looks like. I think this team, even though they're younger, I think that they have a maturity that is probably greater than that 2016 Thunder team, to be honest. They. They're really special in a lot of ways. And one of them is that they've not really been rattled a whole lot, you know, throughout this entire season. They don't lose multiple games in a row. They haven't lost multiple games in a row in the playoffs yet. And so I do think that game five, it's at home, you have more comfort with your role players. You're closing it out. You have a ton. You're coming in with a ton of confidence. Like you just beat a Minnesota team that threw a really hard punch at you and you. And you came away and you won. You needed to split in Minnesota. They did that. I think they should be super, super comfortable coming back to okc. I think they should win it. I think they will. I just think that it will be interesting to watch them just because it is a, you know, they're one win away. From going to the NBA Finals. Yeah, like that is a huge deal for any franchise in the NBA, especially one of the younger ones. And so I'm just, I am just so intrigued to see how they handle all of that.
- [14:29]
Andrew Schlecht
Can I, can I just say throwback to 2011, 2012 OKC was down 20 in the Western Conference Finals. The Spurs.
- [14:38]
Esperahenny
Yep.
- [14:39]
Andrew Schlecht
And they turned it on and won four in a row. And it was like this growing up moment for KD Westbrook hard. And you're like, wow, these guys have figured it out. They're beating the team that's dominated the west for years and years. And it's not the same tonight because Minnesota is still a young team and they have a young player on the other side with Anthony Edwards. But we've seen like multiple moments in this Postseason Run for OKC where they're growing up. Game 7 vs. Denver is that grow up game. This game I think was a grow up game where you saw their three stars just show up in, in the best way possible. And like this is terrifying for the league because all three of those guys playing the way that they just did, it seems sustainable in an era where it's really, really hard to remain sustainable as a contender. So I just thinking moving forward it's just really impressive that this game turned out this way for.
- [15:33]
Dave Devore
Ok, I mean look, during this game I'm, I'm looking at Kayson Wallace's contract because I couldn't remember if he was restricted free agent next summer or the year after. I mean that's kind of where we're at with this Thunder team because all these, these guys are young. I mean it's just, it's kind of unprecedented. Yeah, well go and listen to down to dunk if you want more on the Thunder and their march to the finals. Andrew Schlecht, thank you very much for hanging out. Guys, stick around after the break. S and I are going to come up with a solution for this fouling up three thing. That's the end of games.
- [16:12]
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- [16:15]
Dave Devore
Whoa. I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.
- [16:21]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.
- [16:30]
Dave Devore
The possibilities are endless.
- [16:33]
Andrew Schlecht
What's better is that daily cash can unlock automatically grow when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Card.
- [16:41]
Dave Devore
That's like endless plus one.
- [16:44]
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- [17:04]
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As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [17:40]
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- [18:04]
Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.
- [18:17]
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Summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines?
- [18:37]
Andrew Schlecht
Yes.
- [18:38]
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- [19:01]
Dave Devore
The end of Wolves Thunder was a little bit controversial and not because there was any missed call. Although the fan catching the ball and it not getting reviewed was bart A little bit, yeah. I'm not sure why they didn't review it, but the big controversy s was fouling up three. I mean it comes up every time there's a big game or a great game like that game last night and you have a team with three point lead, of course they do not want to let the team is down get a shot off. It is the smart move, right? Like strategically, that's the right move. It just stinks to watch on TV. Right? It's a TV problem, not a basketball problem.
- [19:38]
Andrew Schlecht
100%. The game is the game.
- [19:41]
Dave Devore
Right?
- [19:41]
Andrew Schlecht
The rules are there for a reason. And if they say you can foul up three with no consequences, cool. Teams should do it more often. Right? Now it has come to bite OKC in the butt before, right? I mean, you remember game one versus the Denver Nuggets where Aaron Gordon came back and hit a three like that. There are situations where if you don't foul up 3 properly it could hurt you in a major way. But for the most part it does work. And you see, I think even Mark Dagnall during that Denver game was like, hey, we look at the analytics and for the most part it says fouling up three is the best solution to this. Okay.
- [20:20]
Dave Devore
But you're it's a damned to do damn if you don't. Because if the team doesn't do it, we hammer them for it every single time. How did they not foul up 3? So I understand that.
- [20:29]
Andrew Schlecht
Yeah.
- [20:29]
Dave Devore
But I'm thinking about it from a television product perspective. I mean from a fan perspective, it sucks.
- [20:34]
Andrew Schlecht
Yes.
- [20:35]
Esperahenny
Right.
- [20:35]
Dave Devore
We're being robbed of some, some moments.
- [20:37]
Esperahenny
Right.
- [20:38]
Dave Devore
Like again, we don't get a, a real shot at, at a game tying three in what was the best basketball game of the year potentially. So to me I it's the fouling at the end of games that's a huge problem. Anyway, the defense getting an advantage shout out to Kevin Pelton, espn. Obviously he's big stats and analytics guy. He actually brought this up. The defense should not be able to benefit from fouling. And in, in this scenario in particular by taking away the three pointer completely, that is a huge benefit. And now I'm not sure if the solution is two free throws in the ball in this scenario or if it's one free throw in the ball or whatnot. I just think to disincentivize fouling at the end of games would be great. I don't want to re litigate the elamending, but the elamending would be an example of a way to to work around that.
- [21:33]
Andrew Schlecht
It works in other leagues. It does work in other leagues.
- [21:37]
Dave Devore
In case you're not familiar with the el amending, it's a target score. So essentially the score, a final score, target gets set. So let's say, you know, it's 80, 75. Target score gets set to 100 points, and it's a game winner when the. When a team scores 100 points. But that would eliminate it. The other thing is, again, again, even regular fouling at the end of games when you're losing isn't necessarily fun to watch. You know, the losing team. And we. We all kind of swallow this as, like, a competitive thing. You know, you got a foul because you got to hope that they miss free throws. I'd rather see these guys try to try to get steals than just play the free throw game.
- [22:17]
Andrew Schlecht
Okay, well, let me. Let me go the other way then. Don't be down three. Right? That's the other solution.
- [22:23]
Dave Devore
There you go.
- [22:25]
Andrew Schlecht
I've seen people tweet this out, but I think that's a valid argument, counter argument to this thing. Don't be down 3. Don't be in this situation to close the game. And also, if you are up three and you're getting fouled or if you're down, basically make your free throws. Right? Free throws are free for a reason. They are. You know, for a lot of people, they say it's the easiest shot in the. In the game. Then make your free throw. Right. That's the counter argument to this.
- [22:51]
Dave Devore
I also think strategically, you know, miss the. Miss the free throw intentionally sooner. You know, there. There's a chance there where you're down two after the first made free throw. And I. I think in this game, it was. I don't know, what was it, nine seconds left or something like that? Go ahead and try it there. You know, instead of waiting until it's three seconds, and then hopefully you can get a rebound that's more strategic, though. But as far as just pure, like, fan enjoyment of the game, I. I do think that this is something the league. It's probably gonna have to think about because it's. It's just. It's what is a huge game.
- [23:24]
Andrew Schlecht
You know, If I'm wrong, doesn't FIBA do something along the lines of it being an intentional foul? Right. If you foul in this way, it becomes an intentional foul, and it's immediately a free throw plus the ball. Right?
- [23:36]
BetMGM Ad
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- [23:37]
Dave Devore
It's the take foul rule. Yeah.
- [23:38]
Andrew Schlecht
Right. So do that. I. I feel like that might be the way, but then there's also ways to game that system. So it's, it's like are you adding another level of gamesmanship that can be exploited?
- [23:51]
Dave Devore
We are for, for 47 minutes of good basketball and a, a minute of procedural paperwork and you know, competition committee conversations and stuff like that.
- [24:03]
Andrew Schlecht
But I, I do think the competition committee will look at this though because I, I, I would say the frequency has gone up in recent years. At least from what I remember. Like even four or five years ago, teams were not fouling up three at this frequency. It and analytics have definitely caught up to the fact that this is the most efficient way to win a game when you're up three points. I think the game is the game but also at some point when are you going to make the TV product a little bit more engaging for fans? Especially when you have an all time level game like we watch tonight. Yeah.
- [24:35]
Dave Devore
And, and with the prevalence of the three. Right. Like it's a super important kind of character in the story of a basketball game. And to take that away down the stretch, I do think it's bad for, for the drama. Anyway guys, let us know in the comments what you think about banning fouling up three. Go ahead and like and subscribe and give us a five star review. If you're listening to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you might be. For Andrew Schlect and Esperahenny, I'm Dave Du for this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.
- [25:33]
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- [26:08]
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- [26:17]
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- [26:17]
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- [26:23]
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